Previous: >>543381257These threads are intended for anyone who identifies as agnostic, athiest, christian, Islamic, etc., to hopefully return to their ancestral beliefs. European religion (Which was polytheistic) was present for over 5000 years before the Christian infection.Christianity (And other abhramic religions) infects nations, it then kills the original culture, and kills the original beliefs.Christianity, islam, judaism, its core and all of its branches, are equally as evil.Return to your roots.1. Research your own ancestry, and even do a (non-jewish owned) DNA test, see where you come from, then research what they worshipped before the abhramic invasion. Start a family, and teach them these original beliefs. Do not let a foreign abrahamic religion overrule you.2. Don't also just teach these values and beliefs upon your family, if you also have normie friends or know anyone, tell them to look into their ancestry and ancestral beliefs as well. I'm sure they feel similar, that everything has become blended and soulless, and people yearn for their true origins.3. Actually research, and slowly start to practice your ancestral religion. See how it makes you feel. Attend festivals, celebrations, etc.Socialize and find your tribe.4. Create multiple artifacts that can be passed down through your children, and their children, and the hundreds of children after that.I would recommend some very short books explaining their origins and guidelines/values they should follow, and what our ancestors believed, and maybe some small sculptures that you've carved. Things of that nature.
Note: First complete a DNA test and/or very thoroughly research your ancestry.Avoid jewish-owned DNA testing companies such as MyHeritageDNA (CEO: Gilad Japhet , an Israeli entrepreneur and genealogist)Look up the CEO/Owner of the DNA testing company before buying.-- Inspo & resources for you to research your own pre-Christian/original ancestral faith (Listing regions most affected by Christianity):[Note: A lot of this information was quickly gathered for a starting ground, and is subject to change. Important information may be missing or an author could have bias. It is probably best to find your own sources. Additionally, some people like just reading, some like listening to audio books, some like learning through videos, find whichever works for you.]SOUTHERN EUROPEAN - (Divided between Greek and Roman Paganism)[Greek]- Hellenic Polytheism : Household Worship- Hellenismos: Practicing Greek Polytheism Today[Roman/Italian]- Religio Romana- Religions of Rome: Volume 2, A Sourcebook- An Introduction to Roman ReligionWESTERN EUROPEAN -- Blood and Mistletoe: The History of the Druids- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKmAY-zC8HE(CAUTION : When it comes to Celtic Paganism, it is extremely vague/unknown, you will have to investigate it yourself and come to your own conclusion)NORTHERN EUROPEAN/GERMANIC -- Poetic Edda- Myths And Symbols In Pagan Europe , Early Scandinavian and Celtic Religions- [Advanced] Saemundar-Edda (With the book "A Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic)- (Youtube) Tom Rowsell - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQAseSM7XY
SLAVIC -- The Primary Chronicle (Povest Vremennyh Let)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phqnRzQgntY- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEVnS3G09-YBALTICS + FINNIC -- The Dainas- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaF1eAaIJgw- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=070Pr8XgRJ4&list=RD070Pr8XgRJ4&start_radio=1- Romuva/Dievturi/Taarausk and Maausk- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Finnic_paganism- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Finnish_paganismROMANIA/HUNGARIAN/BULGARIAN -- Zalmoxis, the Vanishing God- Ősmagyar Vallás- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalmoxianism- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surva_Festival- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OVIwD0cC9U- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeimsePBiWcMEXICO/CENTRAL AMERICA -- Mexicayotl- Fifth Sun: A New History of the Aztecs- Aztec Philosophy: Understanding a World in Motion- Aztec Thought and Culture: A Study of the Ancient Nahuatl Mind- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdO-QB7weUs- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_religionSOUTH AMERICA -- The Incas , Terence N. D'Altroy- Inca Religion and Customs , Bernabé Cobo- The Metropolitan Museum of Art – Ancient Andes resources- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7cW9lfZCjY
PHILIPPINES -- Anitismo: The Ancient Religion of the Philippines- Climbing the Sacred Mountain: Adapting Animism as Part of Your Everyday Life --An Indigenous Filipino Perspective- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OzwR6WfVLE- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnitoPAPUA NEW GUINEA -- Melanesian Religion , Garry W. Trompf.- Papuan Belief and Ritual , John Parratt (1976)If your region was not on this list, simply search; "what religion did (Your country/People) worship before Christianity/Abrahamic religions"
What's the point of making these threads when they just devolve into>you're a jew>no, *you* are a jew>here's an info dump>repeat for 300 replies
>return to ancestral faithAnd then what? What’s the long term goal here? Do you even believe in polytheism or are you just pretending?
>>543408289>What’s the long term goal here?For all nations (but europe is my priority) to reject Christianity/islam/judaism and return to their ancestral beliefs https://youtu.be/YttBKKCvtr8
>>543408224yes christians ruin everything, we've known that for a while
>>543408289kind of dissolves the nature of progressivism and makes it look like they're running in place
>>543407654Polytheism is (in one sense) the thinking man's religion. You've got a pantheon of gods with different characteristics and personalities, and they're constantly in conflict with each other. The structure introduces the opportunity to be your own judge, to consider the sides.And the gods often personify forces of nature or of the human psyche - you can create new myths using a stable cast of characters to represent new social and civilizational ideas.
>>543407654>Christianity (And other abhramic religions) infects nations, it then kills the original culture, and kills the original beliefs.Culture and belief change all the time. The real question is: on whose terms will a civilization evolve, and whose biological essence will they embody? You can't go back, and people know this intuitively so it's not a persuasive argument. However, you *can* course-correct: get back on the path your ancestors would have taken if they hadn't been displaced and made peripheral in their own homelands. Make a lateral move out of the ditch and then move forward.
>>543407654>Start a family, and teach them these original beliefs.This is not sufficient. You have to form strong social bonds with other Whites on the basis of Positive White Identity, and work in the material world to bring back White Society and advance the well-being of your people.
>>543407654Right wing ancestral religionOkay but what about all of the Hellenic gods being queers like Dionysus?What about the fact that they had numerous Trans cults? Magna Mater Galli and Inanna's Gala What about the fact that the gods were held in common? No one believed in "ethnic gods" Aphrodite and Dionysus came from the east as an exampleSo your crusader larp fell flat and now you want to claim a bunch of gods from Rome/Greece/Egypt/Mesopotamia (famously white places right???)What a fucking jokePrometheus is the creator Dionysus is the liberatorCybele/Rhea is the mother of the godsAnd OP is a fag
>>543409605>For all nations (but europe is my priority) to reject ChristianityStraight out of the protocols of zionjews are ordered to destroy Christianity and replace it with "new traditional religions"These threads are made by kikes and their brown pets>>543411131>Polytheism is (in one sense) the thinking man's religionLaughably false. Polytheism is for retards that is why the more brown a civilization is the more gods it hasYou're not even defining the word properly (polytheism is not a/the religion it is a classification of religions)Clearly it is not for smart men if proponents like you can't even use the word properly
>>543407654BASED thread is back, i'm reposting for interest:The European Congress of Ethnic Religions (ECER>https://ecer-org.eu/>European religions as inseparable and essential to European civilization>Demand for full equality before the law and recognition of European sacred sites, holidays, and rites>An organization across ethnic lines to pursue our common interest of having the religions of our ancestors restoredI learned that membership is only 25 € annually, I might join the cause.
>>543411761shlomo is afraidno one should subscribe to jew ideologies or worship jews everit's that simple
>>543411761Where in the "protocols of zion" does it state this.That's ironic considering Christianity is Jewish.
Here is a meme this thread can use
>>543407654PAIN BUILDS INTELLIGENCE AND SUFFERING AND DEPRESSION BUILD WISDOM…THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN IS BY SEEING IT IF A THING LOOKS VIOLENT YOU STILL WILL NEVER KNOW SO NATURE IS THE ABILITY TO SHOW YOU WHY YOU SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM SOMETHING….ANIMALS DONT HAVE HUMAN SOULS AND THEY ALL GAVE UP THEIR LIVES TO TEACH YOU…ATHENA - YHVH
>>543412059I still remember an image from here, how kikes fight "moral wars" by killing their enemies children and destroying their holy sites. Sounds familiar?
>>543407843>Note: First complete a DNA test sounds silly to me, but maybe not so much if you're american
>>543407654Trojans Constantine the great etruscans and Atlantis
>>543407654I paid my homages to the tomb of the vestale Cossinia
>>543418016looks pretty
>>543411131More importantly, in my opinion, everyone seems to innately know polytheism is true. Every ostensibly monotheistic religion ends up reintroducing multiple gods like the Zoroastrian spentas and Christianity's angels and saints. Everyone just knows that monotheism doesn't make sense. Which is also corroborated by no one ever coming up with a half decent rebuttal to the "Epicurean" paradox, which only applies to monotheism.
>>543407654bump >Thomas Paine Age Of Reasonhttps://archive.org/details/ageofreasonbeing0000pain >Pliny The Elder Natural History book 2 https://people.sc.fsu.edu/~dduke/lectures/PLINYNHII.pdf
>>543407654>>543411842>>543407843>>543419641>>543407865FUCKING JEWS ARE AT IT AGAIN!! DON'T LET THEM TRICK YOU DEAR FELLOW PAGANS!!I TESTED THEM HERE IN THIS OTHER THREAD!! THEY WOULD NOT SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT JEWS AND WHEN I DID THAT, THEY FUCKING CALLED ME(!!) A JEW!!>>543356550
>>543411644Magna Mater was not a trans cult, the priests were eunuchs and all romans hated them. Magna Mater = Cybele = Venus statues = the first god ever worshipped
>>543420074total kike death kike harder meme flag
>>543407654>>543407843>>543407865>>543407895AND THEY KNOW FUCKING NOTHING ABOUT PAGANISM WHEN ASK WHAT GODS THEY SERVE AND WORSHIP AND HOW THEY DO IT!! THEY'RE ALL FUCKING FAKERS THESE ASSHOLE JEWS!!THEY ARE SO FUCKING FAKE!! JUST LOOK HOW THESE JEWS LIE ABOUT BEING PAGANS!!!!>>543350035
>>543420111FUCK U JEW!
>>543420173>>543420074blow your brains out noahide filth
I'm soooo fucking happy to see that we now have a team of poeple rubbing the fucking nose of the intorlerand and arrogant christcucks and promoting the religion of our forebears. After 2000 years of fucking darkness, backwardness, hatred for what they did not know, hatred for what was foreign for them, hatred for a different morality and lifestyle, we FINALLY are close to our goal to eredicate christcuckery, after 2000 FUCKING YEARS with only fucking shit in fucking Europe!Christcucks will ALWAYS choosing their religion of hate and oppression against minorities over race! Thats why their our fucking worst enemy! How many witches and warlocks did they burn? How many from the sexual minority did they oppress? How many from the ethnic (gypsies, foreigners), religious (Pagan, Islam, etc) and sexual minorities do they fucking hate, despise and oppress fucking TODAY??Its clear that we must purge the intolerant and oppressive christcucks from our movement and base everything ONLY ON RACE and FREEDOM to do WHATEVER THE FUCK WE WANT! No cunt god to TELL US ANYTHING! Most of us the christcucks would burn at the stake for beling to the sexual minority, doing drugs or just fucking playin vidya! Race is EVERYTHING and a pagan and atheist is worth 10000000x a christcuck and christcucks gave us the shit we got the last 2000 years with TOTAL OPPRESSSION! Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law!I hate christcucks so much its unreal! Slava Ukraini! Slava Perun! Heill Óðinn, Sire!!
>>543420212TELL ME WHAT GODS YOU WORSHIP AND HOW YOU DO IT!! TELL ME HOW JEWS DESTROYED PAGANISM IN AMERICA AND EUROPE!!! FUCKING JEW!!!
>>543411644they didnt have the same view we do today about sexuality. They also belibed in any god that worked for them. >I've been praying to god x, and nothing is working >Im praying to god y now Rome and Greece described themselves as White.
>>543420260>>543419641show me where I said I belib in god, or your definition of god. Through christianity and financial power. Drop the meme flag and stop behaving like a skitzo
HOW many here in this thread are JEWS? I got fucking attacked right away.SHOW US THAT YOU ARE NOT JEW BY POSTING HERE THAT YOU WANT THE FUCKING JEWS DESTROYED AND ERADICATED FROM THIS EARTH! IF YOU DONT UR A FUCKING JEW!!
>>543420280More important than self identification is that we know through genetics and linguistics that Europeans all share common ancestry, including Italians and Greeks.
>>543409605What's the point, though? How do people benefit from that?
>>543420361SO JEWS DID NOTHING TO FUCKING DESTROY PAGANISM IN AMERICA AND EUROPE YOU FUCKING JEW??? THATS WHAT YOU FUCKER IS TELLING ME?? JEWS ARE INNOCENT?? THIS FUCKING THREAD ARE MADE BY JEWS AND THEY SPAM IT EVERY FUCKING DAY!!! THEY WANT TO HIJACK PAGANISM!!
>>543420409this is also true
>>543407654Yes all abrahamism is a doctrine for retarded subhumans, however obviously they're not equally evil at the present day, christianity has been pretty much nerfed while pisslam remains controlling the most retarded masses of violent feral animals.
>>543420451Why dont you actually read what I posted instead of being a meme flag skitzo with nothing to say.
>>543420429Most indigenous polytheistic religions are closer to the truth of the fundamental nature of the universe than the jews and their spinoffs. Pursuing that is worthy in its own right. But there is the additional element that adherence to one of the jew religions, unsurprisingly, makes one more tolerant of jews and their behavior. Zionist christians in the West are the example most today are familiar with. But jews and muslims also collaborated against Europeans in the middle ages.
>>543420649Are there any reasons besides Christianity's ties with the Jews?
>>543421370I gave that reason first. All of the jew derived religions are evidently theologically unfounded. The most immediately apparent flaw is their monotheism. This universe cannot be the result of a sole, omnipotent creative force. The Epicurean paradox addresses why this is so for a benevolent creator. But it is also true of a malevolent one as found in the most common gnostic interpretations of the demiurge. You can simply look at the world around you and conclude that it was neither made by an all loving being who only wants the best for you nor a horrible monster that wants to torture you. Because in both cases it is trivially easy for any of us mere mortals to think of how to more effectively achieve either of those aims. Polytheism simply makes sense. This universe appears very much to be the result of multiple competing influences, some benevolent, some malevolent, and still others beyond moral valuation.There are further problems with jew derived religions, which in some cases are actually amplified in christianity. They are fixated on certain specific prophecies, which never end up happening. On top of simply making the religions look retarded, they also encourage dishonesty and mental gymnastics to try and make reality fit the prophecies rather than accepting the truth as it is. In general, the jew religions have an adversarial relationship with the truth, which is an obvious impediment to any sort of meaningful morality or enlightenment.
>>543407654>Returning to Ancestral Faith Generalyou say that, and then you only bitch about christianityyou are not "pro-pagan", you are simply anti-christian
>>543407654>Christianity kills the original culture and original beliefs.and then you proceed to kvetch how "christmas is actually not christian", and "nor is all hollow's eve" and "nor is easter" and so on
>>543407654>>543407654>Christianity and judaism are equally as evilchristianity and judaism are complete and utter polar opposites
>>543407654>Start a white familyit is only the anti-christian whites that are going extinct
>>543407654>teach people your beliefs questions for pagans:1) what is the name of your religion2) what are it's authoritative sources3) how were your gods, the earth and humanity created4) what happens to humans when they die5) what are some sources that denounce race-mixing and homosexuality+++answers from a christian perspective:>1christianity>2the bible: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203:16&version=NKJV>3god is the uncreated creator. he created the heavens and the earth. he created humanity in his image.>4if they lived in accordance with the will of god, they will receive eternal life in heaven. and if not, they will receive eternal death in the lake of hellfire.>5anti-race mixing: Tobit 4:12, Ezra 10:10-11, Nehemiah 13:23-27, Joshua 23:12-13anti-homosexuality: Leviticus 18:22, Deutoronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8
>>543407843>>543407865>>543407895so how are all of those religions equally true?
You can tell that the spammers are either jewish or heavily judaized by how unaware they are that their spamming makes them and their position look worse than if they said nothing at all.
>>543422387>>543422422>>543422463>>543422508>>543422534>>543422554It's the tranny that is pro white genocide with its meme folder again
Rather than simply trying to reconstruct these religions, I think we should endeavor to revive their spirit. The specifics of all religions change over time. This had even happened with indigenous European religions. The ancient Romans recalled that at one point they practiced human sacrifice before becoming the most staunch opponents to the practice. And actually that leads back to my original point.What are sacrifices? Animal sacrifices were a key part of basically every ancient religion, and the Europeans were no exception. Some revivalists seek to bring back the specific rituals involved, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I think we should go further. For one, a lot of modern people don't have access to the animals they eat. This was actually an issue even in the ancient world with urban people needing to buy animals for sacrifices. But also, our social and economic conditions are not the same. A sacrifice is a sacrifice because it is a meaningful offering to the Gods. Sacrificing a cow in ancient Greece would be an extremely valuable sacrifice. Nowadays not so much. Some element of animal sacrifice can and should be preserved for the purposes of encouraging ethical slaughter. The Greeks and Romans would not sacrifice an animal that was sickly, injured, or distressed. But we should look elsewhere for more impactful sacrifices.I propose oaths. An obligation between yourself and a God to do something that would be a meaningful investment of time/resources that would further the interests of that God. These could be charitable oaths or oaths to improve oneself in alignment with the nature of the God. Like dedicating yourself to learning an instrument and offering up your practice as your sacrifice to Apollo.
These threads are amazing... I thought kvlt was kino just saying
>>543422534If the ancients didn't need "authoritative sources" and if most Christians in history didn't read the bible, why would that matter, Bulgbro?
>>543425248I think ritual animal sacrifice is worth trying. First of all it would be a legal issue
>>543407654By the power of Jesus fist I punch all antichrists
>>543425499>it would be a legal issuePerhaps in some countries. But the santeria have already gotten a supreme court case ruling that animal sacrifice is a protected expression of religion in the US. Which is arguably overkill. While there were rituals surrounding the sacrifices, the actual slaughtering of the animals was identical to halal and kosher slaughter; quickly cutting the animal's throat. Which was also just the normal way to slaughter any animal back then. We have no way of knowing what they would have thought about captive bolts. My guess is most would have opposed it, since you're inflicting an injury on the animal and making it imperfect before killing it. But it could also be argued that the captive bolt is the de facto killing blow and that, by being more instantaneous than cutting the throat, it better preserves the non-distressed state of the animal necessary for its implicit consent in the sacrifice.
All antichrists here will be penetrated my mighty God Jesus’s rays of power!
>>543426177I want to talk about practical steps to performing roman rituals publicly in major American cities. Is there any legal precedent at all?
>>543426475Fuck off
kike spam general
>>543407654The hell with these damned JIDF bot threads.The hell both in metaphorical and material ways.Jannies inaction is complicity.
>>543418016Beautiful. Did you pray, pour a libation, or make an offering?
>>543409711https://rumble.com/v70fnss-st.-pauls-cathedral-from-glorious-to-groveling.html
>>543411914>memeflagreminder:mussolini (the father of fascism) recognized Vatican City as an independent state and established Catholicism as the state religion of italy
>>543425499>>543426177Forgot to say, yes it is worth a try. If for no other reason than animal welfare, which is good for the spirit anyway.I mentioned kosher and halal slaughter. But the similarities there end at the method of killing. In typical semitic fashion they are concerned with the letter of their laws rather than the spirit. And the process of kosher and halal slaughter does nothing to ensure the wellbeing of the animals prior to slaughter. A revival of European sacrificial standards would knock the legs out from under every vegan that complains about modern industrial slaughterhouses. Just as important as any other element of the sacrifices was that the animals were clean, healthy, uninjured, and calm.>>543426583I'm not aware of anyone doing anything quite like that. There shouldn't be any law against it. But I just don't think anyone has ever tried anything on that scale. As far as I know, all current animal sacrifices and even halal and kosher slaughter are either done privately or in slaughterhouses. Some fairs in rural areas will demonstrate slaughtering animals for educational purposes. So public slaughter should be fine. It's simply the combination of that with what would otherwise be a religious parade in a city that that would be novel in the US.
>>543423280bearing false witness again, it is only the anti-christian whites that are going extinct
>>543425406so you admit that you're just making shit up then>christians didn't read the biblethe bible was read at church every sunday, even in remote villages
>>543426177Romans would attempt and re-attempt rituals such as processions and animal sacrifices if they thought one detail was off, up to thirty times, to secure the desired results with precise ritual action. So yes, they were highly specific and meticulous. It is an act of praxis designed to produce a desired outcome. Even when substituting the sacrifice of young boys in the Patriciate abolishment of the matriarchal Tarquins, they substituted the 'heads' demanded by the oracle with garlic and poppy 'heads', rather than abolishing the sacrifice outright, so that it would *technically* be fulfilled so as to avoid divine retribution.
>>543426620Jesus has given me his sword I will cut you down antichrist amen
>>543427296The Romans in particular considered their piety to be their defining national trait and the reason for the success of their society. It was in keeping with that that they were exceptionally particular about their sacrifices. The fact that it was them who explicitly acknowledged that they abandoned human sacrifice is the strongest argument for why one should be willing to examine the practice of sacrifice. The Romans would not have stopped conducting human sacrifices without a theological basis for it. If they truly believed the Gods wanted human sacrifices, they would never have considered stopping them or trying to con the Gods with something else. Rather, they no longer believed that's what the Gods wanted. And it makes sense. They worshiped these Gods because they were benevolent benefactors of mankind. Why would such Gods thirst for human blood? They might appreciate valorous action in battle which involves killing. But killing people for the sole purpose of sacrificing them to the Gods? Seems rather dubious that they'd want such a thing. And human sacrifices are distinct from animal sacrifices. Outside of the relatively uncommon holocaust, animal sacrifices were a meal shared with the Gods. This element is entirely absent from human sacrifices.And if we can examine human sacrifices and conclude that they are most likely not in concert with the will of the Gods, then we can also examine animal sacrifice. Perhaps the actual purpose there is to treat the other living things whose lives and deaths sustain us with the proper respect and dignity? So maybe the elaborate ceremony for the one cow is of lesser importance than the conditions of the source of our chicken nuggies.
>>543428126
>>543425499>>543425248Zalmoxianism involved human sacrifice. The sacrifice was chosen in times of crisis from among the elites and acted as a messenger taking the complaints and requests of the tribe to the realm of their god. You can't tell a cow your troubles.This is an aspect that absolutely must be preserved, it's a very powerful and efficient ritual. Last time we sacrificed Ceausescu, he was told he fucked the economy and tortured the people, that we want freedom, blue jeans and coca-cola, then he got sent to Zamolxis. Lo and behold, we got what we asked for.I might be biased, but it feels like the one true faith.Sub-prime crisis? Yeet your best bankers on the spears, I bet the gods won't let it happen again.Lack of jobs due to H1-Bs and AI?Send your most profitable CEOs to Zalmoxis and He'll rain good jobs upon ye.Goatfuckers somehow manage to blow up your landmarks? Tell the intelligence chiefs of your troubles, send them as messengers and it won't happen again.
>>543407654One advantage of abrahamic religions is that they have weekly rituals in churches where the whole community gather to pray and talk. Even if you're not super religious it's a great way to strenghten the group.Meanwhile, pagans can pray the Sun or Athena or Thor, but it will often be by themself, alone.How would you solve this problem?
>>543407654>women are children>let’s create foids to worship
>>543429161Demon hornet ! god will catch you in his spider web and devour you vile sinner.
I am the greatest God man I dance with the lord . Antichrists weep!
>>543429649The ancients had that too. Go look at all the Roman religious festivals. They had stuff going on essentially the entire year. But that would take some institutional inertia to recreate. In the meantime, getting weekly meetings going like the abrahamics would be most expedient. You could then respecialize them into dedications for specific things once you get the ball rolling. Another, not mutually exclusive avenue would be reviving the philosophical milieu that spawned the likes of Socrates and Plato. Male friends getting together to work out/play sports then shoot the shit about philosophy. Could even be a sort of male book club where you all agree to read some particular Socratic dialogue or Orphic hymn beforehand so you all have something to talk about.
>>543429069>Christianisation has damaged the field of Roman studies so badly that modern academic books apologise in the introduction and vow to analyse Roman piety seriously nowYou are making the common mistake of flattening all 'Romans' and 'gods' into one camp and making a very modern gesture of forcing your individual human rationale over divine ordinance to advance an agenda of your own, calling it Roman, in contravention of the evidence supplied, without evidence on your end, not mere modernist rationalist conjecture and innovation, rather than solid metaphysics and praxis, which is the essence of their piety.There were dozens of foreign Asiatics, aboriginal, and native Italics and gods. I specifically articulated it as a conflict between the Patriciate and the Asiatic Etruscan dynasty that was ousted. You cleverly invoke Roman piety and then skip the national myth itself to retrofit it into enlightenment and Christianised humanist-rationalism, which eats away at anything beyond individual and anarchic Reason.We see the feminine, egaltiarian and democratic conceit reach the full inversion in Americanism, which is the complete inverse of Rome, with female 'senators' and superiors. You cannot have a female Senator, it is from the Roman 'senex', meaninig 'elder wise (aristocratic') male. On the contrary, the proper Latin for an elder woman is 'Anus'. So these are Anuses in your 'Senate' which is more like a tribune of the fatherless and rootless plebs. it is a sleight of hand designed by the same currents that championed mob will against noble order. In both cases the manoeuvre is deliberate: to smear what was once the axis of form and hierarchy with the paint of levelling ideology, so that the guardian of Initiatic Wisdom appears a dreamer, and the Senate of Mars’ sons a debating club of merchants. It is the classic ruse of Freemasonry appropriation by inversion.An ancient Roman would have a panic attack if you dropped him in the middle of the USA.
>>543429069>>543430717I have shown you how they even obeyed the oracle of the child sacrifice of the Asiatic dynasty *technically* so as to avoid divine wrath, which does not suit your Americanist individualism, but it's a common pattern for America to retrofit Roman concepts and selectively mutilate the meaning. So you have not grasped the argument in the least, prohibiting an authentic reinstantiation of the sacred principles you personally find difficult to stomach in your meekness and lack of piety.>Idque aliquamdiu observatum, ut pro familiarium sospitate pueri mactarentur Maniae deae, matri Larum. […] Nam capitibus alii et papaveris supplicari iussit, ut responso Apollinis satisfaceret de nomine capitum, remoto scilicet scelere infaustae sacrificationis.>And this was observed for some time, so that, for the safety of the household members, boys were sacrificed to the goddess Mania, Mother of the Lares. >For he ordered supplication to be made with heads of garlic and poppies, so that the response of Apollo might be fulfilled with respect to the name ‘heads’, while, of course, a criminal and unholy sacrifice was discarded.>Macrobius, Saturnalia 1.7.35
>>543430717>the Asiatic EtruscanThe what now?
Heil Odin.Fuck Israel.Remember what Jotunn did.
>>543431398>Heil Odin. Fuck Israel. Remember what Jotunn did.Kek such Larpers
>>543427235Priests read it in Latin and people just believed the priest. Even after mass started being done in the common tongue, they'd just hear select passages and trust whatever the priest would say. And that's also true today for most Christians.And "make shit up" can be said about the whole book itself, so...
Paganism and Atheism is just Reddit to these people. Its over Atheism bros, i actually feel sorry for you guys.
>>543430800>*technically*Except they didn't. And they knew they didn't. When they added the eunuchs of Cybele to their religion they pulled no such punches, despite considering their practices foreign and abhorrent. They would never have made a substitute sacrifice in lieu of a human unless they believed it was the right thing to do.But then you think the Etruscans were "asiatic" so you are beyond reason. You complain about the influence of christianization but it's clear from your incoherent and meandering rant that you're the one with jews on the brain. You have a preconcieved and frankly retarded notion of what is jewish and what is not and attempt to force everything you think you like into malformed opposition of what you think you don't like.
>>543431016The ethnic divisions and racial conflict in Greece and Rome itself is well-established and referenced in Virgil (where they try to ameliorate it by 'Augustan peace'). The hierarchical conflict between the plebs and patricians is figured in the myth of Romulus and Remus where the plebs take the Aventine, the centre founded by Remus, the lawless brother who is killed for breaching the walls of Romulus, who establishes the imperial and aristocratic centre on the Palatine. The plebs staged various peasant and egalitarian revolts, even feminist ones (the patricians use the best terminology of the time that could be understood as 'feminist' or 'Marxist') on the Aventine, and the Etruscan dynasty formed an egalitarian 'brotherhood' temple of the Mother goddess there. Servius Tullius himself permanently damaged the Roman state all the way through the Republic via democratic and egalitarian participation (which Anti-Roman Americans love to invoke in Gladiator, Star Wars, etc.) until Augustus staged a revival of Romulus' conception, to the point he almost adopted the name Romulus instead.So right there, we see a conspiring and intermingling of the Asiatic and pleb strata.The Romans genocided the Etruscans so badly in the Etruscan-Roman wars that there is nearly nothing remaining of them beyond some pots, divination tools, and tombs with matrilineal descent, we hardly know anything about them. Many of these matrifocal and feminist/tranny cults (think Jews, who are also Asiatic) emerge from the East and their incursions in Rome. Rome variously warred with them, genocided them, and tried to appease and ameliorate them under masculine values.>Tuscos Asia sibi vindicat.>Asia claims the Etruscans for herself.>Seneca, De Consolatione ad Helviam Matrem 7.2
>>543431674>worship the jewish race muh croosaydurrYou will always be a brown babylon bee reader
>>543432358>You will always be a brown babylon bee readerYou mad m8?
>>543432035>But then you think the Etruscans were "asiatic" so you are beyond reason.>Tuscos Asia sibi vindicat.>Asia claims the Etruscans for herself.>Seneca, De Consolatione ad Helviam Matrem 7.2No, that is a Roman and scholarly opinion. Not mine. Their divination tools are obviously derived from Babylonian implements, as well as goddess cults and prayers.Servius Tullius' Mother temple is modelled directly on the Artemision at Ephesus (major Asiatic Greek centre)Once again you provide zero evidence while I provide clear evidence, and you back away from anything greater while calling well-refunded assessments of problematic intellectual currents 'meandering'. It is you who does not 'like it', and reduce everything down to 'common sense'.The Jewish temples are typologically and spiritually related to the mother cults, and this is emphasised in Christian usurpation of the titulature, prayers, rites and more, with archaeological and scholarly proof, of the local cults of Isis and Demeter and so on. No less that they first converted women, slaves, and people's wives, radicalising them against the men and virile religions.It is well attested in the myth that the Romans instituted Magna Mater on the Palatine, Augustus' Domus was right next to it, if you have actually visited Rome, which I doubt, it is evident in the archaeology. They tried to virilise all of these goddesses under solar law, and reference the taming of these strata themselves; they also had slurs for anyone claiming matrilineal ancestry.W. Ridgeway is a Cambridge scholar who articulates that Hellas was not a unified body until the Apollonian and Doric Greeks made it one. He compares it to early Britain, as a body of disparate and warring tribes with conflicting ethics. Even the same gods could be totally inverted between them. The same goes for Rome. Many different ethnicities; three major ethnic/social strata.>Common 'Common Sense'.Are you the guy who literally posted Thomas Paine?
>>543432472>>543432035>Servius Tullius' Mother temple is modelled directly on the Artemision at Ephesus (major Asiatic Greek centre)Here is the evidence. Once more, Jewish rites are acutely related if not directly derived (I think they are), but that is a different topic I did not even want to hint at. You are the one spiralling about Jews when I mildly gestured to them.Yes, ethnography exists, Diversity-American.I do not rest this on one or two lines, but a constellation of evidence.
>>543407654All white people should get hats identical to the OP picture and this way EVERYONE will take us seriously.
>>543430717>>543430800>>543432090>>543432472What the fuck are you talking about? Even if you completely ignore the fact that Etruscans were genetically almost identical to their neighbors and other European people, why would you describe them as racially foreign? Lets say they lived in Asia at some point, so fucking what? How does that prove they are racial aliens? What kind of retarded point are you trying to make? As for child sacrifice, they made it pretty clear they considered it an abomination. What is your race? >>543429649Both Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans and everyone between them were communal in their religious activities. Literally just read the sources we have on it, the solution is to do it the way they did it.
>>543432035>so you are beyond reason.>ignores evidence of Romans literally substituting human sacrifice to adhere to the oracleAh, there is that wonderful Enlightenment thinking.Interestingly, the Ius Naturale Bachofen references is a phenomenon endemic within the Asiatic mother cults. In the goddess worship conception reality can be reduced to nature and the cosmic 'matrix', adherents of whom Romans slurred as 'terrae filius'.>Etruscan dynasty instituted the Sibylline books, which prompted them to integrate Magna Mater and various feminine cults. Always acting in a subversive manner, to the point that Augustus had portions of it burned.>The Tarquinian line then bound Rome to the Sibylline Books,135 those Asiatic-Southern oracles conferred by the authority of the female seeress, through which the Idaean Mother would later be summoned in the Hannibalic crisis. The Augustan settlement brings the older Sibylline inheritance under a new principle of sacral command. Suetonius records that, after assuming the office of pontifex maximus on the death of Lepidus, Augustus burned more than two thousand anonymous or disreputable Greek and Latin prophetic writings, retained only a selected body of the Sibylline Books, and deposited them in two gilded cases beneath the pedestal of Palatine Apollo. This is the first decisive gesture: prophecy is no longer allowed to circulate as a diffuse, foreign, anonymous, and politically available force. It is sifted by pontifical authority, purged of dubious accretions, and placed beneath Apollo, the god of Augustan purification, order, and luminous command.136 The Roman adoption of Etruscan haruspicial rites passed into a different context under patrician discipline, subordinated to Roman auspices, priesthoods, and public law; yet the adoption itself left an aperture, by which the Etruscan-feminine current, formerly excised from kingship, could re-enter the field through Rome’s own sanctioned sacral machinery.137>Common sense
>>543432472>that is a Roman and scholarly opinionNo it isn't. Again, you accuse me of what you yourself are doing. You're trying to take an ancient mythic origin and force it into modern ethnography while deliberately ignoring the differences in terminology between then and now. And no, scholars do not agree with you. The Etruscans were European.>I mildly gestured to them.You're so far down the jew hole that you started screeching about freemasons. Nothing you have posted has had anything to do with the ancient Romans. It's all just you going on rants about things you have decided are bad and you propping up the Romans as opposition to those things to give your rants some semblence of credibility. Just look at how much you've been screeching about egalitarianism. The Romans had a heirarchical society. But they are notable for implementing one of the most egalitarian forms of government on Earth at the time, rivalled only by their neighbors the Greeks. And they had a level of social mobility that had never been seen before. They are the last ancient people anyone should use as their representation of opposition to egalitarianism. But you've decided that egalitarian = jewish (which makes no sense) and that the Romans were the opposite of the jews in all things (and if they weren't it was a betrayal). You may as well say the Romans breathed water because jews breathe air.
>>543432472>>543434154And what the fuck is with this>common senseshit? Me quoting you now is the first time I've typed that phrase but you've been spamming it constantly. I'm with the other anon, what race are you? Because you're not White.
>>543407654I would be worshipping baal if i do that tho... ;w;Can i be greek pagan instead?
>>543433854>having a nervous breakdown over Etruscans>The Etruscans were culturally distinct from neighbouring Italic peoples and matrilineal>Their language was non-Indo-European, whereas Latin, Faliscan, Oscan, Umbrian and the other major languages of Iron Age Italy belonged to the Indo-European family. Oxford's Christopher Smith describes this linguistic fact as one of the principal reasons the Etruscan origins question arose in the first place.>Their religious and cultural system was sufficiently distinctive that the Romans continued to regard Etrusca disciplina as a particular body of knowledge.>Ancient writers preserved competing traditions about their origins. Herodotus reported that they had migrated from Lydia in western Anatolia. Seneca calls them Asian.>Bottleneck during Roman-Etruscan wars. Roman assimilation itself would tend to make the surviving Etruscan population genetically more Roman/Italian over time,Their migration happened much earlier than the recent Near-Eastern migrations, which is why the genetic will naturally be thinner.>2004 mtDNA study found the sampled Etruscans had genetic affinities somewhat closer to the eastern Mediterranean than modern Italian populations, although the lineages themselves were described as typically European or West Asian.The genetic evidence is not an Etruscan migration from Anatolia in the eighth century BCE; it is quite compatible with the relevant eastern ancestry having entered Italy thousands of years earlier, during the Neolithic. The Etruscans represented the culturally distinct survival of a much older eastern Mediterranean population or population stratum which had entered Italy long before the historical Etruscans emerged; consequently, the genetic assimilation of Iron Age Etruscans into the central-Italian population does not by itself disprove an ultimately Asiatic origin.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1181945/>muh genes! no such thing as ethnography!
>>543434500Did the Levantine Phoenicians do the child sacrifice thing? Or was that just Carthage? In any case, you can't go wrong with the Greeks. That area got pretty heavily Hellenized anyway. If history took a different turn it could have stayed that way.
>>543435161They most likely didn't sacrifice children. The bible lied about them
>>543426783SEXO
>>543434239>>543434239>scholars do not agree. The Etruscans were European.>>>>>543434797>ignores evidence again.I cited scholars who interpret the cultural evidence as Asiatic, as one of the major strata in Rome acting in a subversive fashion.>screeching about freemasons.>tries to debase the argument, can't refuteThe Enlightenment Reason you cite and 'Common Sense' as well as the US Founding Fathers are derived from Freemasonic principles, which mutilated Roman patrician concepts. When referring to Rome, I refer specifically to the cultural centred on Romulus' kingship and the patriciate whose founding myth was the ousting of the Etruscan dynasty, celebrated on the Regifugium. Involving sacrifices.You delivered a highly Christianised account and dismissed the argument. The Jews are not the focus, they come much later. I am actually diversifying the anti-Jew rhetoric by indicating Christianisation as being rooted in earlier currents that are not Jewish.>use as their representation of opposition to egalitarianism. You have a poor understanding of the conflict between the Romans, natives, and foreigners. But I am not surprised since flattening egalitarianism has triumphed in America, which is why I invoke Freemasaons. Not even Jews. I root my argument not only in the religious principles, but the founding myth, the solar and patriarchal gods, as opposed to the lunar ones. Christianisation is a later triumph of the egalitarian strata, in vengeance against the Olympian patricians. American Freemasons selectively interpret Roman religion as you attempted.The rest is your spiralling and inability to handle the evidence. So I accept the concession and will not provide more; you have provided a sum total of:>ZERO>u not whiteExcellent 'whiteness' on display. I think this can go no further at this level of argumentation; your response is increasingly becoming an assertion of opinions rather than an argument capable of being checked against the texts.
>>543435824>Excellent 'whiteness' on display.I fucking knew it.
>>543434239>>543435824>I cited scholars who interpret the cultural evidence as Asiatic, as one of the major strata in Rome acting in a subversive fashion.This American is deranged, but for any bystanders: remember it was not ONE ethnicity. Etruscans were a major early driving force prefiguring and laying the groundwork for the Jews that came much later (do you think we wuz as well? they're European!!), but it was a constellation of Asiatic ethnicities. So I never hinged my argument on Etruscans solely. But this American is not capable of higher-order arguments that require multiple levels of abstraction, or any understanding beyond the American term 'white'. A lot of butthurt (((Etruscans))) posting in this thread apparently. Don't know why any of you would give a care.
>>543407654>Return to the retarded beliefs of people so ignorant they didn't know where the sun went at night Yikes, hard pass!
>>543436256You being a jeet is extremely relevant to you calling one group of European peoples asiatic jews and putting your retarded third world words in the mouths of another European people.
>>543436111>u not whiteSo this is the level of argumentation on display.I am literally arguing for Aryan Trojan Romans and hierarchical, sacred ethics, and he wants to include Etruscan egalitarianism while ignoring evidence and ad hominem of 'non-white' when he does not promote 'rationalist' reinterprations of Roman religiosity and defend Jews and Freemasons.Well, whatever helps you go home with your dignity intact. I don't want to humiliate someone needlessly when they have already lost. Clementia is a Caesarian trait and divine patrician goddess.
>>543436344U do realize greek and Roman pre Christians knew the earth is a glob and calculated its circumference with a stick and built architecture that mogs ur cardboard house and glass cubes to oblivion. These ppl were certainly as intelligent as the modern human if not more intelligent.
>>543434797>having a nervous breakdown over EtruscansProjection, not an argument. >The Etruscans were culturally distinct from neighbouring Italic peoples and matrilinealDistinct in what way? Norwegian and Swedish culture are separate but nobody argues that they are foreigners to eachother. If you're arguing that they were all collectively feminist or something try to prove that without some schizo shitposting. >Their language was non-Indo-EuropeanYeah so is Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian and Basque. >Their religious and cultural system was sufficiently distinctive that the Romans continued to regard Etrusca disciplina as a particular body of knowledgeIs this supposed to convince me that they're asian? >Ancient writers preserved competing traditions about their origins. Herodotus reported that they had migrated from Lydia in western Anatolia. Seneca calls them Asian.Yes different ancient writers had different ideas about origins of different people, no shit. Its not a definitive statement on who they were.>the genetic assimilation of Iron Age Etruscans into the central-Italian population does not by itself disprove an ultimately Asiatic originIgnoring the fact that the entire study just proves my point, thats not how genetics work. Unless you're just referring to geographical areas in your typical meandering style. If the Etruscans were genuinely racial foreigners, that would be as clear as the case with arabs. >muh genes! no such thing as ethnography!We don't have any ethnographic work saying that they are racial aliens. And yes genes don't lie that's the point, start making sense or just stop posting. >>543436146>Don't know why any of you would give a careIs that supposed to be english? I care because its bordering on schizo nonsense that shits up the thread and we already have enough of that. Whats your motivation for comparing a (almost universally recognized) European people to jews? Why bring it up in the first place?
>>543436459>muh jeetFuck off peasant American. You've outlived your usefulness, contributed nothing to the discuss but spam and feels and are now spiralling. Go on, humiliate yourself some more. Very Roman. Yes I'll take my advice on Roman piety from a sperging child. Glad I knew you were never to be listened to. Any Roman traits you do not embody. Taking a loss with grace is masculine virtus which you do not have. You have to drag it into the mud. The discussion is over and you totally bombed and now resort to ad hominem debasing. Stay on topic and stop tagging me with off-topic spam.
>>543436344They were able to measure the circumfrence of the Earth to a decent degree of accuracy given their available tools. Their observations of celestial bodies were limited by the fact that glassworking wouldn't reach the precision necessary for telescopes until over a thousand years later.
>>543436667>tombs with matrilineal names is not evidence>literal temples dedicated to Assyrian people and goddesses is not evidence>genetic mtDNA evidence is not evidence and does not change with age>I don't understand the argument so I'll shit up the thread! I'll pretend to be dumb! that will pass as a real argument (it doesn't)>bad faith argument and provocationIt's time for emotionally sensitive butthurt spammers to fuck off. I have no idea why you are so emotional about a simple statement.If you cannot accept the evidence and points and deflect from it like the American, while debasing it into personal attacks, you should stop spamming the thread. I have already answered the points made and provided scholarship. The rest is childish whining to cover for bad motives, and that is after already trying to slander me as non-white. You are in bad faith and wilfully do not engage with the arguments made, while accepting subversive strains that the Romans themselves derided and warred against. You probably want to be an Etruscan or something.
>>543436667>>543436990Notice how the bad faith anon tries to conflate Nordic languages, on the opposite side of the continent, with the Asiatic cultural sphere right on the Border of Rome and Greece.Notice then how he handwaves away the diversity of opinion as if he can make an assertion from the void (he can't).Why are they so butthurt about defending a foreign and hostile people? It really boggles the mind. Modern scholars like to defend Etruscans too precisely because it's conducive to the feminist agenda because they were so matriarchal.German scholars and some from the nazi milieu also questioned the Etruscans and their Tanaquil goddess. Anytime someone calls out the Etruscans for being damaging, they are called 'racist' and 'sexist' and 'insecure'.(((Modern media))) constantly points to the Etruscans as proof that Romans were feminist, just like they do to Magna Mater. What we are seeing is a very old trick. I wonder why you are employing it when the discussion had nothing to do with you and you have no idea what it was even about? I simply was talkling about what the Romans did with subversive sacrifices of young boys to a mother goddess. Do Finns and Norwegians do that too? It's okay because they're (((white)))?This is a paper by a female French Etruscan ---FEMINIST--- scholar, it literally says that Julius Evola and the Nazis criticised Tanaquil (female royalty of Etruscans, who gave slave-king Servius Tullius royal right by marrying him to her daughter) because they are insecure men and racists. Am I a bad man now for saying goddess worship and sacrifice of boys is bad because the American rationalist got butthurt? Or are you matriarchal and getting sensitive for a discussion that had nothing to do with you?
>actually have some decent discussion going>thread manages to be more than just christians and jews seething>NO DO NOT REDEEMING THE SACRIFICE>YOU ARE ETRUSCAN DOG PROSTITUTERemember this the next time an abrahamic sees you talking about Jupiter and starts insisting that you denounce vishnu. They are all on the same team.
>>543436990>tombs with matrilineal names is not evidenceA couple tombs isn't evidence that they were exclusively matrilineal, yes. >literal temples dedicated to Assyrian people and goddesses is not evidenceWhat do you base this claim on, exactly? >genetic mtDNA evidence is not evidence and does not change with ageYour generic assertion was that the Etruscans were some kind of racially foreign element, if that was the case it would come out in their genetics and you wouldn't have a hard time proving it. >bla bla bla you're the shitposting one you're dumbNot an argument>>543437518>>543437747>>543437856You posted one genetic study which just repeated what I already know and articles or book quotes supporting your view. Is there literally any evidence for your claim that they were proto-jewish feminists or are you just pulling it out of your ass? Because it looks like you are pulling it out of your ass. Also stop deleting and reposting constantly it makes you look even more deranged. I don't care if you think I'm some sort of feminist liberal agent or whatever schizo nonsense, I just want to see if you can actually base your claims in something tangible and convincing.
>>543411379What is American culture except jewish banks, Mc Donald and malls?
>>543438258>muh derangedIf you are going to make ad hominem attacks, do not then ask for evidence or criticise my posting as an attempt to shame my arguments (they do not). Refresh the page and they will vanish. It is a very, ironically feminist way of argument and does not help.>Not an argument>makes no argument>base your claims in something tangible and convincing.>ChatGPT tier casuistry.I have provided evidence. Your criticisms are emotional opinion that cannot be verified against the texts, like the American.>nooo don't post sources that support your view! but show me evidence that supports your view, but dont post evidence!Riiiight. And I am the schizo? Why am I feeling like a schoolmatron is dressing me down? Grow up.>show me evidence but limit it to genetics!The population migrated there much earlier, and the genetic evidence lingers in their mtDNA. This accords with the cultural fact they were matrilineal and left matrilineal names on tombs (as we see in their matrilineal names on tombs). Jews often have DNA from neighbouring populations because they are matrilineal as well. It does not mean that they culturally identify as white.The myth of the Roman patriciate (Brutus) is celebrated yearly on Feb 24th by ousting the tyrant, plebeian and feminist kings. It is well known that they supported women's pre-eminence, had goddeses cults, sacrificed young boys to those cults, and that the Roman elite saw them as a form of oppression and tyranny. This also accords with wider PIE mythology cited by scholars as a repeating pattern. It is likely that the Etruscan dynasty are not real people, but mythological figures intended to convey this battle.You are not even ready for the later discussion of how Christianity is influenced by them.I am willing to trust the Roman sources that had the matriarchal slurs for them, and that called them Asian or Assyrian. J.J. Bachofen, Evola, A. Rosenberg, associate them with the Asiatic cultural sphere.
>>543437993Sorry, Thomas Paine is not 'good discussion'. You fell short of the 'good discussion' when you couldn't bring it down to your Enlightenment rationalist level.You are the moron who was trying to pass off American rationalism as Roman piety, or are we continuing bad faith casuistry because you want to incorporate Etruscan egalitarianism into Romanism just like the feminist scholars? You probably think Caesar is gay too.
