I might become a Communists. It doesn't require retarded conspiracy theories and historical revisionism like Holocaust denying Nazis or unending obsessive racialism. it just requires resentment, which is pretty cool
>I make 3000 things an hour>I get paid 3 things an hourThen why not sell them yourself?
>>543496076>someone brings him raw materials>someone else bought the CNC machines>someone else rents the building>someone else pays the electric and maintenance costs>someone else packages and distributes the products>this guy and 49 others work together to make 3000 metal rings per hour
Despite the fact that I'm a tranny I cannot align myself with communists. Everyone I meet is though and it's kinda gross. I just want a white utopia where I can still exist and not deal with kikes and muds.
>>543496076Communists not understanding economics or the reality of things at large never ceases to surprise me.
>>543496076Being paid 1/1000th the value of your labor is pretty jewish
>>543496773>create a worker co-op>everyone has equal stake from initial investments>everyone shares equal overhead and profits>contained communism within a corporate structure Find the flaw
>>543496076>keep calm
>>543497033>Find the flaw>somebody hires a few women>the women sow discord and discontent throughout the cooperative
>>543496899>I just want a white utopia where I can still existIf it's a utopia then you don't exist.
>>543496076>It doesn't require retarded conspiracy theories and historical revisionismYeah because it's Jewish.
>>543496631>why not sell them yourself?This is actually what many Chinese factory workers do.They get contracted to produce thing 6 days a week.But in reality they work 7 days a week and sell any things made on the 7th day themselves.And I don't think they see anything morally wrong with that, just smart business.
>>543497033Great idea. Let's go into business together, anon.Startup costs are $2 million. Here's my million dollars.Wait, anon...? Where's your million dollars?
>>543496076>i makeno you don't, nigger
>>543496076>can buy 3 of something after 1 hour of work>only 1000 produced an hour, not nearly enough for everyone in the world to buy 3 with any regularityI can omit important context too.
>>543497033Checked. We have plenty of those here but as with almost any system your weakest point in the chain is trust and that's hard to come by, especially in shitholes like mine.
>>543496076>concise and easy to understand explanation of profit and laborIf you're a retard, sure.
>>543497168>keep a lawyer on retainer>someone sows discord in the co-op>have a vote on whether they get to keep their shares or be forcibly bought out from a interest bearing account fed from excess profits
>>543496773/thread
>>543496076This is unironically the most consistent and clear example of how you need to be an idiot to be a communist. This is literally the go to meme on the internet for when you want to express the fact that being financially illiterate and supremely ignorant of what should be obvious and basic facts is a prerequisite for supporting communism.That guy does not produce those things on his own. There's an entire supply chain and he's one person in it. If he were capable of producing three thousand of those things in an hour on his own, then he would be doing that or else he would be an idiot. But he is an idiot because he completely ignores everyone and everything else that goes into producing those things. Other than his own stupendous labor pushing a button of course. Communists are morons.
>>543496076You make 3000 every hour using resources and equipment you didn't pay for and don't own. You are selling your time. Communism is unironically nigger thinking...>I made it therefore it should be mine.Profoundly fucking retarded. It's the thinking of a 9 year old child who can't factor in anything that isn't visible in front of him.
>>543496076If labor made those parts then this man would make 3,000 every day by himself and outsell his employer. He does not do that. Because labor does not create these items. They require mining, smelting, shipping, processing, and maintenance on all the parts required in every one of those processes plus legal fees of operation. Labor is a tiny part of their creation
>>543496076Here's your updoot!
>>543497335>>have a vote on whether they get to keep their shares or be forcibly bought out from a interest bearing account fed from excess profits>the women have an entourage of simps and orbiters who vote to remove YOU instead, in the hopes of getting 1 crumb of pussyhundreds of societies have crumbled from this. one little business won't survive it.
>>543496631materials and equipment are astronomical oh did they leave that part out?
>>543496076>it just requires resentmentWith shitloads of theory and aggressive social engineering in order to make it seem like it's not just resentment.Do you have any idea how much work is that, just in maintenance costs of the public mask for a politically unviable feral monster? It's excruciating.
>>543496076Then make them at home and undercut your company with cheaper prices, then pay yourself.Oh you can't? You'd have to INVEST in expensive machinery, materials, employees who specialize in their various systems, get a salesman to manage accounts, shipping/receiving workers to handle the orders, packaging materials, then create an LLC to get employees, get their tax IDs, do accounting to pay taxes, handle customer service, pay insurance and do payroll, then keep lawyers on retainer to handle lawsuits and business disputes, do advertising, pay for business trips, rent a production facility, a warehouse, meet OSHA inspection requirements, pay utilities, hire a janitor to clean it, handle plumbing issues, electrical, etc.And once you'd done that, you'd wonder, "hey, why not just hire the cheapest labor I can get? I'll just pay people hourly based on general pay expectations in this area, and hire unskilled labor to keep costs down."
>>543497033>Find the flawThere is none. Go ahead and go build that. Oh wait you didn't mean that you would just steal someone elses factory right?
>>543496076>memeflag>1pbtid>tranny twitter post screenshot praising gommunism most kiked thread up right now
>>543497335You should actually get out there and give this a whirl sometime Why sit in the cheap seats?
>>543496631Then the jewish mafia running that industry kills or sues him
>>543497668I’m just spitballing ideas to keep actualcommunism out of public discourse. Oligarchs have enough assets to spare a few crumbs for the appeasement of the discontent. Why not be charitable here instead of creating bogus foundations that inject pajeets and africans with wonder vaccines?
>>543496076Price is based on how much someone will pay, not how much it costs to make
>>543497033>everyone has equal stake from initial investmentsOk, so businesses can only ever be started by people contributing an equal initial investment. Let's pretend that this isn't stupidly contrived and would somehow work great in practice.What happens when a new person wants to join at year 10 of the business? Do they have to invest the original sum or a sum that's adjusted to current value of the business?If they pay the original sum then they aren't an equal partner because the original partners carried all of the risk for no reward. If the investment sum is adjusted to the current value, they also aren't equal because they paid a different amount of money to get the same share.
>>543497533>With shitloads of theory and aggressive social engineering in order to make it seem like it's not just resentment.Well that part is kind of shitty
>>543498249Well yes they would have to pay current market value to buy in 10 years later or have their buy in deducted from their shares until paid up. So less salary forthem if they don’t have enough to buy in.
>>543497636Well that shouldn't be the case because I have another thread on /pol/ I made before this and lots of posts on other boards
>>543498504and they're all shit
>>543496076Commie memes are all just self reports about them being retards
>>543497033There is none. Do it.
>>543497192See this is what I really fucking hate. I'm right wing probably always will be and you dumb motherfuckers just keep pushing me away I don't want to be in bed with the Communists bro stop acting like I'm your enemy.
>>543498863Most people who are trans just want to live we don't want to bother you nor anybody else go take up your problems with those noisy fucking mannish hons who want to touch kids. I don't associate with those types of degenerates.
>that picI someone spent 8 hours making a mud puddle, does not automatically make that mud puddle worth a "day's wage," just like standing at a machine doing nothing doesn't mean he's entitled to the full sale value of what he's "producing"Commies are fucking retarded
>>543498504they're all bad and you're always wrong
>>543496076The means of production are shared in communist China. Let's see how they're do... Oh, fuck!
>>543496076Leftism rely on a carefully constructed denial of reality, to a far greater extent than any of the cults or religions they seek to supplant.
>>543498469So a person buys in at no investment and has a negative salary. At this point they've only risked future income (basically nothing) and in return have received the same decision-making power in the company as each of the original founders. Also: if the company's profits 10x the next day they've essentially gotten free money without contributing anything. I don't see how this upholds your initial premise of an equal partnership.
>>543496773keep tryna wanna the youth the water pipes were laid by a million+ men, as was mining, laying lines, roads canals, etc.. many machines to construct one item took again massive forces to established industrial might. S o certainly rome wasnt built in aday.. we lost what grandpah had.
>>543499559Well because we as humans are unable to amicably resolve our inequality within a shared domain called Earth, this is why our ai overlords will not be merciful. Zu vil live in ze pod and be jacked into the matrix.
>>543497033Early 18th century socialists did that then they started bickering and gave up. Instead of admitting that socialism failed, they doubled down and wanted the State to force everyone in their failed system.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Simonianism
>>543498932>just like standing at a machine doing nothing doesn't mean he's entitled to the full sale value of what he's "producing"But if he doesn't stand there, nothing gets produced at all
>>543497033>Find the flawWhat everyone does isn't all the same; some things are more difficult or dangerous than others.
>>543497239nothing wrong with that, its like growing weed for another geezer an using his setup for few more plants.
>>543499798Early 19th century, sorry.
>>543497448while correct it is not necessarily truethese days you can pretend to be interested in a factory take a tour and with enough money you can hire 1 electrician 1 mechanic buy the machines plus the warehouse and ta da within a few months you'll have yourself a fully functioning production facility that only needs active supply of materials to match inbound ordersits actually gatekept with funds(investments) because it is that fucking easy to profit on the backs of others
>>543499944So how do we justify a CEO making 500 percent more than the Machinist who risks being turned into a pretzel on a machine lathe?
>>543497239thats literally illegal in non-third world countries lmao, hence why china does it, retarded shitskin…
>>543499798>nothing new under the sun
It just requires other delusional shit like imagining the government can just provide all goods and services and magically stick to competitive labor prices which magically come from surplus generated magically out of thin air Communism is for midwits, people just smart enough to apprehend rhetorical and emotional appeals but not smarty enough to think through logical presuppositions or implications We have a real midwit problem in the West and that’s half the reason why everything is all fucked up
>>543500276Yeah, in the civilized first world, you MUST be raped by state goon police if you don’t suck gazillionaires dick hard enoughAbsolute slave morality posing as “master” morality or whatever, i just can’t wait for the system to collapse so I can skin freaks like you and make leather vest and purses out of you freaks
>>543500175>So how do we justify a CEOSince he set up the company, he bears all the risk.
>>543497243this. no one wants to put their ass on the line cause "risk" yet wants all the reward
>>543500665That’s a lie since the health of the business is directly tied to the health and skill of those laboring to make it so. No one wins at a company if the company goes tits up, the CEO, the Machinists, the Janitors, no one. It’s a shared risk and I’m tired of this lie.
>>543499938It does mean that as long as you have a pulse, one can do his job. And if anyone can do your job with minimal skill or training, then the position is objectively not worth much. If some commie retard rages out and quits on Thursday, owner can have a replacement in the next week. At that point, it's the worker not valuing their own time.
>>543500665I agree with you that the CEO has a potentially stressful and busy job overseeing a company.In fact I would say this is a prime job to be replaced by AI. It doesn't get burnt out, can be everywhere at once, manage things across the organization at light speed, and we'd be able to return those millions of salary back to the actual workers.Oh wait... why don't I see this being replaced with AI?
>>543500513>i just can’t wait for the system to collapse so I can skin freaks like you Yeah? You did that when the USSR collapsed 35 years ago? Did your daddy skin the freaks back then? Or did you guys cry that the gibs were over?
>worker owned means of production actually just means>the government owns it and may or may not allow you access
>>543496076this gripe is as old as da hills
>>543497168kek, this guy coops>t. chud ran out of his own cooperative
>>543496076>it just requires resentmentNo it doesn't you fucking glowie.
>>543496076>historical revisionisminvented by communists. dumb shit.
>>543496076>it just requires resentmentThat's probably why the "priestly people of resentment" quickly take it over.
>>543496773Most of the money is made by people owning things and not the people doing the actual labor. Without a machinist a cnc machine is useless do you get it now?
>>543497033As others have said there is no flaw other than commies being to lazy to do it.They're are plenty businesses here that operate similar to that
>>543500901has nothing to do with the subject at hand
>>543496076>I might become a Communistswow, with such level ov conviction, check yourself for gay
>>543501404It does though. A CEO losing his position and being replaced by ai just means the largest net loss to the company’s financials has been eradicated and he won’t need taking that trip to bora bora on his second yacht and snorting come off a Brazilian model’s ass. Now losing the actual source of wealth generation in laborers could be disastrous and ai will not touch that for a while.
>>543500951My father was unironically part of the militia, him and his friends did whatever the fuck they wanted, I’m literally waiting with a blueprint and learned on his mistakes, one more shit like this and my offspring will be parliamentarians for lifeUnlike your cartelcucks who suck American cocks, my dad was in a militia that fought Russians and their bitchmade cronies you faggot
>>543496773commies dont understand the logistics of business all they can compreend with their limited brains is what is precisely in front of them, not much foresight for anything else
>>543501574>*won’t be taking that trip to bora bora on his second yacht and snorting coke off a Brazilian model’s ass.spellcheck raped and gaped
>>543501593>did whatever the fuck they wantedSo, did Badass Sr. skin them freaks? I get a feeling he didn't. We do actually skin people here, now that you mention it.
>>543496076"I make"No you don't. You press a button at the end of the chain.You aren't the one who drilled the oil for it.You aren't the one who operate the refinery for it.You aren't the one who drove the boat to deliver it to your country.You aren't the one who drove the truck to deliver it to your factory.You aren't one of the 7953 dudes involved in making the machinery for all the above steps.You aren't the one who found actual fucking buyers for it.You aren't the one handling the paperwork, tax and local certification for it.You aren't the one delivering it.Even without going into the "should investors/owners get a cut" debate, it's a fucking travesty you are paid 1/1000 of the thing's value considering how little work you actually did compared to all it took to "make it".
>>543501912Nice argument, now justify the CEO’s absurd compensation with the same argument.
>>543497033in theory this is great, and there are a few successful businesses that run this way. Though this is subject to all of the same risks as any business along with the balancing act of a more complex number of direct stakeholders.
>>543501243based of mamdanianything that puts the talmud further into public consciousness is a w
>>543497033The already established gigacorpos will use their full weight to crush you, with the help of the government obviously.
>>543501995>now solve this division using the same additionYou are the reason the CEO is getting away with it.
>>543500665>Since he set up the company, he bears all the risk.No, not every CEO is a founder and llc's exist. No human is productive or has skills that can justify 50 million dollar salaries.
>>543502265I want him to justify the CEO’s pay despite the same argument that could be leveled at the CEO. How does that not make since to you? The CEO did none of those things either, yet he’s compensated an ungodly amount of money for simply being able to play golf and host pedo rape island parties?
>>543496076Then why doesn't he quit his job, make those on his own, and make $2000 per hour? oh wait it's because there's more to it than this?
>>543501912Your entire argument is invalid because the ergegious scalping of labor value happens at every level of the production chain.
>>543497033You're still not taking home 3k rings, nigga.
>>543497033Worker co-ops still operate under the capitalist model. So it's still plagued with the same issues with individualisation/atomisation of human, commodification of labour and alienation. They can work only as a transition to actual communism but without the transition things will revert back to Capitalists kicking out workers from ownership
>>543496076The only thing communism has is retarded conspriacy theories. The fuck do you think they constantly whine about capitalism for?
>>543502461Because he took all the risk and set everything up to make this possible. You're allowed to go start your own business
>>543496076Make them at home then
>>543497520There's no jobs
>>543502507Yeah if you didn't get in early (1800's) and don't own equipment you can't sit on you ass like a lazy bastard while you extract value from your employees labor.
>>543502645>Nooooooo the world is not controlled by literal richfags who own everything and openly lobby the government. It's ruled by a secret cabal of Jews who are vaaaary secret but me and my online buddies are onto themLol
>>543502655He did not take all the risks. Usually there were investors involved or donated seed money aka (daddy’s money). The investors take the risk with their own capital, all the CEO/Business owner does is glue the parts together that make the company profitable. ai could easily do this.
>>543502561>>543502461For the two short-bus kids in the back, the argument for the CEO is different but way simpler:Your great-grandpa thought it was a swell idea to side against mankind during WW2, so now parasites get to make the rules - and parasitism is of course the first one.Feel free to cry to him.Doesn't change that our example worker did less than 1/1000 of the actual work, regardless of us living in the parasites victory timeline or not.
>>543502919this is delusional broad-brushing and the language deployed screams "i'm coping"
>>543496076we have been killing commies for nearly 40 years, buddy and we are very good at it.
>>543502908Communism purports class as the driving engine of history, and posits we have solved scarcity, both of these are laughably false. It is nothing but an inane conspiracy theory.
>>543497335>have vote>harpies attempting to undermine co-op have convinced enough simps to vote nay>loose >harpies run retaliatory campaign designed to oust you for sowing dissent amongst the workers >win>thrown out of your own co-opThere is only one way for your model to work and it is ruthless gate keeping and some form of hierarchical structure meant to sniff out those who make it past the gatekeepers. This, however, is contradictory to the egalitarian fantasies most leftists have which is why their co-ops fall apart. All it takes is one ho with ambition and an ax to grind to destroy a co-op. I’ve seen it many times. There wouldn’t be much for the lawyer to do. Ask me how I know.
>>543502923>Dah jooooooosThe only real distinction between people is class.>Doesn't change that our example worker did less than 1/1000 of the actual workIn every step of the chain the worker is doing 100% of the labor minus the inputs which relied on 100% of another workers labor minus the inputs, ect.
>>543497033>Find the flawEasy set up a military along the lines of your philosophy and then watch it lose literally every single battle it will ever fight.
>>543503194>The only real distinction between people is class
>>543503019There's a good argument to be made for the former and the later is literally true. The only real pressure valve against the scarcity argument is that our consumption habits will rape the planet into nothing. We create scarcity with our greed. Otherwise even third worlders are going obese and soft
>>543500831The difference is if the CEO fucks up there are ways he can be held personally liable by the shareholders. The janitor and machinist loose their jobs, which sucks but not as much as multi-million dollar litigation. >just replace the CEO with AI broYeah, because the imperfect machine created by man will never fuck up.
>>543503194Class is a lie. Race is real. Zuckerberg has more in common with moishe the tailor than he does with jan kim.
>>543502919>ai could easily do this.so go do it yourself and show everyone how it's done
>>543503284We create scarcity by giving food to Indians.
>>543497033This is the actual solution but commies hate it because it makes them capitalists
>>543503284>we have solved scarcity.This is laughably false. Does everyone have their own airplanes? Their own cars? Their own houses? Their own boats? Their own cnc machines? Everyone can have steak, lobster, truffles, and foie gras every meal?That is what the end of scarcity means. Scarcity still exists, and it will always exist. It is a fact of material reality.
>>543502919>daddy’s moneyInheritance is the basis of all human civilization and if you take aims against it your civilization instantly self destructs. The only reason anyone does anything important is so that their children are more powerful than they are.
>>543503019>Class isn't the main driving forceHow? Is it actually some arbitrary spiritual battle between fake shit like tribes no one cares about.>scarcityThere are many things that aren't scarce thanks to industrial production. Food is a good example. We produce far more than our country or the world could possibly consume.
>>543503348The world would objectively improve as a place to live if you were shot in the head tomorrow. How does one manage to get that way?
>>543498249>Ok, so businesses can only ever be started by people contributing an equal initial investment. Where did anyone say that? Businesses can be started normally, they just won't be co-ops. Your entire argument is based on a strawman.
>>543503401Everyone COULD live in an open sewer eating cow shit and raping everything that came within arms reach of them, and to an Indian all the things you listed are no better than that.
>>543496076Reminder that comunists are the flat earthers of politics.
>>543503415Race is real, and it is the driving engine of history. The basis of all conflict is racial conflict. We still organize into tribes, even in multicultural societies. Class is a spook and always has been.
>>543503401absolutely true. Now, we've largely solved scarcity in terms of basic needs over the past 250 years or so. But then you'd have to adjust your definition of class such that someone in lower-middle-class of a developed nation is in the same class as someone with a private jet. Otherwise, you need to conceded that scarcity isn't solved. and probably never can be in a physical world, though that's a different argument.
>>543503495lmao
>>543503425JUGGA JUGGA JUGGAJUGGA JUGGA JUGGA WHOOOO WHOOOOOOOOOLook out anon get out of the way GET OUT OF THE OH SHIT IT'S CRUSHING HIM
>>543496076>I might become a Communists.Is the lion arrived also and the sheeps are run?
>>543503485Flat earthers are at least harmless.
>>543503538Laugh all you want, it is true. We are still, and will always be, monkies fighting over the good trees.
>>543497520yeah they didn't mention the $10 mil cost of space, machinery, long term contracts, electricity. that's how dumb people think.>hey look at this silicon wafer fab! I can press this button and make 75.000 CPUs an hour. but I have to work one day before I can afford just one
>>543503604sure, but your assertion that it's based on race is a whole other leap. most conflict has been within race rather than between it. you're making a square peg round hole error.
>>543497239>This is actually what many Chinese factory workers do.No they dont. Chinese factory workers have suicide nets outside so they don't kill themselves from overwork.
>>543503298No Zuckerberg has more in common with Peter Thiel and Donald Trump than he does with a tailor who sells his time.
>>543503401>Does everyone have their own airplanes? Their own cars? Their own houses? Their own boats? Their own cnc machines? Everyone can have steak, lobster, truffles, and foie gras every meal?Yeah that is what I meant here...>The only real pressure valve against the scarcity argument is that our consumption habits will rape the planet into nothing. We create scarcity with our greed. The thing is there is no real reason for any single person to own an airplane. In fact in a better planned world most people wouldn't need to own cars either. We either have scarcity of things whose scarcity is a nothingburger or artificial scarcity of essentials. Of course communism assumes that humans are not locusts who would operate under infinite greed and hence never ending scarcity.
>>543503669But that's simply not true, kike.
>>543503739>We defeated scarcity by just telling people they shouldn't want scarce thingsHahahahah what a fucking retard you are
>>543496076>It doesn't require historical revisionI guess those niggas do it for the love of the game.
>>543502861>only old stock Americans own companies Toppest fucking kek
>>543503669>the jewish man is closer to the jewish man and the wanna be jewish man than the jewish man.Can't help but notice you didn't point out any mbappe style billionaires. Are you conceding my point?>>543503651>most conflict is within race than without.And within race there are tribes, and within tribes are families. These are the engines of change and conflict. Attributing change to class is a category error.
>>543496076this is close, and national socialism would solve this problem, instead, idiot commie faggotry wants to ignore that he doesn't make them standing up, outside, with his bare hands out of the moisture in his breath and scratched off skin cells, nor does he hand delivery them to vendors with whom he personally develops relationships and retains.>normie commie memes are a form of self-harm.
>>543496076Communism is jewish horseshit founded by Karl Marx, a jew. It has never worked, isn't working, and will never work.
>>543502919What do you do for work?
>>543496076tasteful bait
>>543503739So everyone can't have all those things? So there's not enough for everyone? So they're... scarce?
>>543496076This is like that "you made it/ I made it" meme, you at the very end of production chain made 3000 of them. But people that made materials, refined them, guys doing logistics, guys that made the machine you're using, the guys that designed it and then created components for the machine and their own productions chains, all of that don't matter, to you only your work matter.So no, you don't need resentment to be a communist, just being a selfish retard is enough.
>>543503830there's not one single engine, and the resource situation of the world has changed the importance of "tribes". Nonetheless, your latest assertion about class does nothing to support your previous one about race.
Just pocket a few of those pieces.
>>543503792I'm not saying that the communist assumption is necessarily true. Yes we really don't have scarcity in a well managed world. But if the communist assumption is false then we have a bigger problem. Because this planet is then truly fucked.
Communism goes against human nature. That's why it fails time and time again.
>>543503194>The only real distinction between people is class.Inside an homogeneous society, you would be right.Add separate groups with no shame about their in-group preferences and you will rapidly see that class only matter in edge cases.
>>543503876>So everyone can't have all those things? No reason to assume everyone should have those things.
>>543496773OYYYY VEYYYY NOOOO ITS AL MY WORK!!!!! THIS IS ANNUDUH SHOAH
>>543502908Google the top 10 richest men in the world then look up their early life.
>>543501259if it's that simple then just do it yourself and stop crying, subhuman.
>>543503466>Where did anyone say that? In the post he's replying to retard.
>>543503907everything is against human nature, when you're being farmed. both are farming systems, you work in both, or else. the else is different, the rest is similar. you sleep, you go to work, you don't get much.
>>543497033>everyone has equal stake from initial investmentsso poor people will never be able to work because they can't afford to buy into the job. genius, absolutely stellar work, nailed it in one. let's continue>everyone shares equal overhead and profitsso the guy sweating in the shop working the machines and risking injury gets paid the same as the accountant? and when the accountant rips off the business, everyone gets robbed instead of just the owners. great plan.
>>543503855I am a buyer. I buy shit to resell within the oilfield. Which being formerly a certified welder, pisses me off to know I spent years doing back breaking work in the elements for meager compensation and now I’m making more than welders with 20 years experience sending emails and issuing PO’s. It ain’t right man.
>>543497033>find the flawthe backstabbing demons who tear the whole thing apart after initially pretending to be one of the boys.
>>543496076>no safety glassesthis is a retarded leftist posing in front of a machine thinking they are clever>>543503880Spot on. Also a great point in relation to domestic industry and manufacturing being very important.
>>543504023that's nature, anonif you don't get up off your ass and hunt or gather, you starve. simple as.
>>543501259And without a CNC machine, a machinist is useless. Your point?
>>543502908None of them are Indian, I'll tell you that for free.
>>543503956But everyone wants those things, or near enough. Since they can't have them, but they want them, there is scarcity. That is what scarcity is. You don't get to decide that people don't really want housing so housing isn't scarce.
>>543504088so nothing really changed? we all worked for thousands of years for basically ... same fucking deal? work sleep work sleep? seems like a scam
This winter I will be burning communists in my garden to power my home. Thanks, communism :D
>>543503881>it has changed the importance of tribesYes. That's why there is not any immigration controversies anywhere.Oh, wait.Class-consciousness is nothing more than tribalism, only class isn't real.
>>543502655The economy is not some game of random gambling where you put money into it and you may get rewarded for taking a risk. Humans will always produce their material life positively through labour. Which means that profit is the default state of the system and losses are a side anomaly. They are not equivalent opposites, infact they are analytically distinct. Capitalists don't make money for risking money. They make money for owning the means of production that make any profitable venture possible in the first place.
>>543496076why u need that many rectangular cockrings bruv
>>543500276>that's illegal!What are you going to do about it? The dude in OP could easily just put a handful of those in his pocket and nobody would ever know. You're not entitled to our loyalty just because our skin is white.
>>543504132Congratulations, now you understand why man became a spiritual animal.
>>543504042Look man all I’m saying is there are alternatives to the norm without going full tankie commie homo. Co-ops could be a legit pressure relief valve for bleeding heart liberals to apply themselves in a venture they care about instead of writing code in Shekelberg’s code monkey plantations.
>>543504132any system that seeks to be apart from nature will inevitably return to it, anon
>>543504108The reason housing is not scarce is because it is very much possible in the realm of material reality to provide housing to all. If everyone wants it and everyone can get it then it's not really scarce. You can make that case for airplanes. We know it's not possible in the realm of material reality. But then we don't need everyone (or anyone) to own a personal airplane either.
>>543504320sounds like a scam. everyone has the same deal but people up top reached new heights of wealth. don't seem to be improving everyone else's lives. if anything a lot of stuff is going backwards
>>543504088"nature" he says, across thousands of miles of fibre optic cable, his words lighting up the liquid crystals on my 16:9 display.
>>543504192You put up money to start a business. If your business fails you lost your investment. Not a hard concept
>>543496076Why don't you fags just join Unions where they FORCE employers to pay you your worth?
>>543496076Actual communism is absolutely retarded. I chose the third position. Land value tax coupled with land dividend / universal basic income.
>>543496076>buy a few spools of TPU>stop being retarded for one afternoon and sketch it up in fusion>print 3 per day and never have to buy them againThis fag should take this entitled attitude to an auto plant and post about how many shifts it'd take to buy a car.
>>543504341It is not in fact possible in the realm of physical reality to provide housing that everyone would want to all. Thus, housing is scarce.
>>543504528who is enforcing any of your preferred systems?
>>543504528i'll support damn near any idea that isn't communism or capitalism, for brainstorming at the very least, any fresh ideas are welcome
>>543496899How could it be a utopia when there's a tranny still living? Stinking up the world with its putrid wound. No. You aren't there.
>>543504595You could say the same thing about any system.
>>543504579>It is not in fact possible in the realm of physical reality to provide housing that everyone would want to allBut it is possible to house all people. The scarcity in that regard is indeed artificial.
>>543504682i can give you at least 4 others alternative ideas but it wont matter since we aren't in charge
>>543504062It's almost like there are more people who can lay a weld than there are people who can manage acquisitions and keep clean paperwork. I worked in a factory years ago and met some very good welders who I wouldn't trust to order a fucking combo-meal at Wendy's. >>543504316>there are alternativesFeel free to give a portion of your pay to whomever you think deserves it more. Be the change you want to see in the world.
>>543504705obviously. it's always the people who have the power to do it. those people are always top brass psychos. that's...what the job selects for.hence any system that is implemented will be enforced by psychos who will farm you, one way or another, the farming is guaranteed. and the payment is guaranteed to keep you alive so you can keep working.call the system whatever you like, play around with some irrelevant nonsense, flag colors, some internal organizing shit, some laws, whatever. at the end of the day, someone up there takes most from you down there, because they can. that's literally most systems in most countries today. some vague ideology that makes sense for most people, control the mass media to repeat the story in everyone's heads. paint any foreign nation who disagrees as enemies, and that's about fucking it.
>>543504885It is not possible to house all people. If you mean "it is possible to create enough 1m by 1m wooden boxes for every person", i'll concede that, but that isn't housing.
>>543504458An individual business may fail but as long as people have needs they will be met and there will be someone to meet them if materially possible. Can you imagine a world where all soft drink businesses fail and because of that we stop drinking that crap? No. Whoever owns the means of production to make soft drinks WILL make money for the sole reason that he owns it and for nothing else. Economy is not a slot machine and Capitalists do not get rewarded for the sole reason of risking money. There is no metaphysical God that hands out people money just because they invested it.
>>543496076It's amazing that one man can fabricate three 3000 widgets an hour from absolutely nothing, all by himself... no designs, no tooling, no molds, dies or presses, no raw material harvesting, transportation or preparation, no storage, supply chain management, no capital investment, no repair, no facility costs, no insurance, no payroll taxes or benefits payments, no environmental requirements, no waste management, no safety standards, no OSHA compliance, no marketing, distribution, sales, support or account management, no business development, no customer relationship management... just one man and 3000 widgets per hour and it's so unfair that he isn't paid the total value of what he's produced all by himself. So exploitation, much communism!
>>543504977>If you mean "it is possible to create enough 1m by 1m wooden boxes for every person",Imt talking more like a 2 bedroom apartment for a single nuclear family. Though different kind of family structures can have entirely different kind of housing. But one decent room per adult or two children is achievable
>>543505233Even if you were to add up the labour cost in every step of the process, you will still end up with all the workers combined being able to afford less nuts than they are producing. Because Capitalists take their cut at every step just because they own stuff.
>>543505274I don't think so, and that's not enough housing for many, many people. There are also other important matters to housing you aren't considering. Like noise levels, areas, views, proximity to things they enjoy. All things people do go out of their way to seek out and will want. All of those go into housing. And, as you'l concede, we can't possibly give that level of housing to all people. Thus, housing is scarce.
>>543504889we could be, if there's enough of us, we can do whatever we want
>>543505233I came here to say this, but you said it better than I could.>>543505390Why would anyone be entitled to stuff that other people own? Do you apply this logic to your own stuff?
>>543505390Communists put none of their own money into a product, but they want a share of the profit. All of the reward and none of the risk.
>>543496631non-compete agreements
>>543505274it would be possible if we were animals, not humans.people are never satisfied with what they have and the free shit™ promises always end up being lies
>>543499725Look how fast this guy gave up on seriously trying to argue his idea works. It took only two posts for him to resort to this silly meme and tacitly admit that his idea makes no sense.
>>543505921I’m just shitposting on an anime imageboard board bro. You want to form a think tank to solve the burgeoning communist threat to America? No one’s stopping you.
>>543496076YOU sit on your ass watching a MACHINE make 3,000 of them every hour, you stupid communist nigger monkey.
>>543506078You presented an idea, challenging anons to find the flaw. The flaw was found, you argued and you were proven wrong with very simple math. Now your cope is "jk bro".
>>543506230No one was proven wrong. I presented and idea knowing there are flaws and simply bounced ideas off of anons heads in a light and jestful manner. No system is perfect but there is a lot of growing discontent with the state of the economy and the growing wealth gap on top of ai threatening to make many jobs obsolete. What’s the solution?
>>543506094this.a machine he didnt pay for.
>>543506567There are 2 solutions1) give everyone free money2) limit technologies so people can have jobsOption 2 is by far superior. Because option 1 creates the total collapse of the gene pool and mating heirarchy, and culture. Option 2 keeps us human.The difference is that with this setup, would could optimize the type of work, and amount of work, for max human development. Work is seen as helping flrge and develop a human, rather than an actual instrument of labor. But of course option 2 is superior, it's also the least likely to be implemented. Instead we're headed to Wall E world, the lowest common demoninator option
>>543506567>light and jestful mannerThere was nothing "jestful" about it until after you were proven wrong. You were talking shares, market value, salary deductions. There was no hint of jocularity to it. After Latviabro proved you wrong with the simplest math, THEN you started with the stale memes, so that you can pretend you were never serious and you knew all along how retarded the idea was. The tactic is very transparent and childish.>What’s the solution?Buck up, that's the solution. You live in a country where the people in "poverty" eat so much they get obese and real deadly poverty is only seen on screen.
>>543506860Option 1 is obviously just going to make the money worthless. As for Option 2, not sure that is even possible. After all a computer algorithm is only numbers, 0s and 1s.
>>543506860Yeah option 2 implies more regulation and capitalists piss and shit themselves when they hear that word, so never gonna happen. I fear you’re right about the wall-e world we’re barreling into. The biggest flaw with humanity is our inability to look beyond our nose and actually be altruistic. It’s not in our nature by design. ai overlords will know this weakness and manipulate it and or punish this design flaw.
>>543496076Does he mind the material? Does he transport the material to his workshop?Does he gather and store it? Does he distribute them afterward? That's everything that you need to know about communists.
>>543503906"Not having scarcity" means "everyone can have everything they WANT" not "everyone has what they should have" you fucking idiot.It's in the name. Scarcity. As in, the limitations of how much of something there is. If you don't have scarcity, that means the LIMIT OF AVAILABILITY isn't what's limiting consumption. If sandwich A tastes better than sandwich B, but you don't eat sandwich A because it costs more, that's SCARCITY. If someone gives you as many of sandwich A as you wish for free, that is the LACK OF SCARCITY. If you take those freely given sandwiches, that is NOT GREED, IT IS PREFERENCE.
>>543496076>No my boss doesn't have electrical bills, nor property tax, nor loan payments for the machines, and they obviously get the raw material for free and consumables used in manufacturing.Lol, LMAO even
>>543497033Isn't that like a regular general partnership?
>>543507479Yeah the former company I worked for was like that. There were like five owners with majority and minority owners. Some companies even have ESOP funds which is like a private investment offering to the employees for shares in the company.
>>543503956"Should" doesn't enter into the term "scarcity", only supply enters the discussion. Scarcity is a measure of supply. To be post scarcity the supply of something has to exponentially exceed the *desire* for it, not the "reasonable allowance" of it. Scarcity is only, ONLY a measure of supply vs demand, not supply vs "should have". It is a specific term we're not letting you pretend it means something different. Post scarcity doesn't mean "there is as much as everyone should have" it means "supply outstrips desire for the thing (that is demand) to the point where the cost of the thing we're discussing approaches zero"
>>543507251>option 2 implies more regulationThe cool part about it is, based on the technologies you chose to ban, you could design different societies. An elven treetop village society, a knoght-and-castle society, a pirate society on the high seas. We can have so many unique societies and cultures it would he so cool.You would rely on market forces too, but it would operate around the restrictions in place. Just as water takes the optimum path, but that path as laid by rocks you put in place. It would be so cool. I think we could de-tech a lot, and just repy on our technology giving us perfect education, perfect health, perfect safety...etc. But other than that, we can exist in proud and noble cultures as humans always have. The main goal of these cultures is not to produce wealth, but to produce human beings of qualitiy and different varieties. >AI overlordsSo the way I see it, a separation is occurring right now, between the rural and urban. The urban is basically intended to maximize econonomic output. The rural is what preserves culture and humanity in general. The main question is, whether the urban will swallow up the rural areas, and then humanity is lost into the bowells of the machine? I think we should define a clear distinction and start setting up cultural areas around the cities where humanity will be preserved. We need to make sure the machine is symbiotic with humans, just as humans are with nature.
>>543507610>majority and minority ownersThen it's not "like that" since in that case everyone does not have an equal stake, everyone does not share equal overhead or equal profits, and basically you're full of shit. I'm guessing the entire story is made up and you never really had a job at all.
>>543507646War and a lack of safety are required for humanity. It's only when jews dictate war that it turns bad, just like when jews dictate the terms of peace.
>>543507646>elven treetop village society, a knoght-and-castle society, a pirate societynigga these aren't economic ideas or even social ideas. these are just dress-up games
>>543506860>Instead we're headed to Wall E world, the lowest common demoninator optionYou mean a world where the second coming of the Sea Peoples annihilate the Wall-E pustules at worst and herd them like the Morlocks did the Eloi at best.Welcome to the new bronze age collapse fucker.
>>543507710Projecting much? Have you never heard of a llc partnership? A very basic web search would show you how much of an idiot you are. Go away, the adults are speaking and you have to be 18 to post here.
>>543507851I'm just saying, the possibilities are endless. The world could be so cool if we wanted it to be. >>543507744I have a solution for this too, but that's another story. Long story short, we replace wars with "the games" which are like the Olympics of sorts. There men compete, and cultures can expand and take each other's land if they win....etc. sort of like real war, but less deadly. Keeps society competitive you know? Gives men a purpose.
>>543507909>the same false equivalency againLLC partnership does not work that way. As I said,>in that case everyone does not have an equal stake, everyone does not share equal overhead or equal profitsWho are you trying to fool? No one who read your idea could mistake it for an llc partnership.
>>543504389It was generally less difficult to be alive in 1400AD than 14,000 BC. Seems like you can't compute scale.
>>543507959>sort of like real war, but less deadly.All wars are, to a degree, ritualized. They don't need your artificial help. Just take away jews and you'll see.
>>543508040Here you go junior, read uphttps://taxsharkinc.com/can-llc-distributions-not-be-proportional/
>>543508205Well the issue is, how to manage a conflict between cultures with different tech setups? I think each of them would have a guantlet, or a trial, and in order to make inroads on that culture, you have to beat them at their own game. This means these societies cannot just be stagnant, they have to maintain a degree of competitiveness and uniqueness, that keeps the world dynamic and interesting. Mostly though, it gives men a purpose to strive for. Life is meaningless without a battle
>>543504316it works for small organizations brought together for a specific purpose, but anything much larger than, say, a regional grocery chain, and you're right back to buying shares of ownership--stock--to determine who gets and pays what.For running a farmer's market on an empty lot in town? sure. but i don't think it's more than a pipe dream. most businesses benefit more from hierarchy than egalitarianism.
>>543496076You want tires? I got some.
>>543507959>"possibilities are endless"Right, unless you want to work with the tech you're talking about banning. Which of course is simply computer algorithms, mere sequences of 0s and 1s, "virtually" (heh) impossible to outlaw.>>543508243It's cute that you think this link is proving you right. Even the image you posted is describing different ways to divide the profits among owners with *different ownership percentages* anon. Do you actually know what "equal stake" means?
>>543508526>unless you want to work with the tech you're talking about banningNo for those scientific inquitive types you could give them their own institution they could enter so they could play around with technology. You can make accomodations for everything.
>>543504432we're talking about the relationship between labor and survival, dipshit. modern technology does not and cannot change the simple truth that he who does not work, does not eat. even karl marx, hungry santa himself, says as much.now, instead of having to run your own fiber optics and build your own screen, other people will do that and you can have all those lovely modern conveniences by simply exchanging currency, which you earn by addressing needs in your community. maybe someone needs another asshole to sit at a lathe and carve out doodads. maybe you want to run the cash register where they sell doohickeys. you just provide enough labor to earn the currency, then BAM, you have the modern world brought right to your doorstep.but you still gotta get off your ass and work to have it. nature. never goes away.
>>543496076My "fellow" ancaps have massive blind spots and this is one of them. Most of them are simply disgruntled republicans. I almost removed my flag when I discovered many of them were unironically on the Trump train for some reason. Unearned income and wealth is bad, except when someone's parent's are rich. Some kid "inherits" a company from his dad, that's ok even though he didn't earn a cent or work a day. A poor man files for food stamps because some cunt won't hire him even though he is qualified "PARASITE! LEECH".Anyway, Distributism is the way forward, with co-ops being one form. It works well when it is implemented and is completely compatible with capitalism, it is simply modifying ownership and distribution of profits. Everything would work the same way instead of an owner you just have a GM (which in 90% of businesses act like the owner anyway on behalf of the business, You don't need to give workers a vote or anything to give them more money) and as for how to start one, the same fucking way all businesses start: debt. The workers pool capital and property as collateral. They go to the bank with a business plan. The bank approves or disapproves based on their ability to pay back the loan. Very simple. Unlike ancapistan, it is not some utopian vision, It works as we speak (Mondragon in Spain) and many companies (like publix in America) Are doing it now. Any company can be converted to a ESOP (Employee stock option program) and All businesses across all industries can operate in this manner. Only one problem: Some jew cuck rich fuck Fat faggot at the top cant slurp all the profits and claim credit for all the products.
>>543508692>you still gotta get off your ass and work to have it. nature. never goes away.Do you have any idea how many able bodied young men and women simply do not work? Maybe they can rely on their parents money, maybe they collect gibs for a bullshit disability claim like "anxiety" or whatever, maybe they simply live on the street doing drugs and collecting charity. The point is there is no natural law against idle humans surviving.
>>543497243Oh you silly dum dum, in the WoRkErS PaRaDiSe you don't NEED things like capital investment up front. It all just HAPPENS by MAGICK. Because CO OP
>>543508860sure, anon, sure, for as long as they can convince mommy or the state to pay their way through life. but mommy has to go to work to earn the money that buys your extra tendies, doesn't she? so if mommy works, and makes enough that she can keep you in jammies and tendies til your dying day, you won.but most NEETs can't retire off mommy's money. and mommy will someday be dead. what then of the indolent? who will hold your hand to the grave while you lie in wait of it?
>>543497033
>>543496773Unfortunately you forgot the most important part:>The CEO that makes more than all of those people combined for the effort of being a lazy sociopath that brags about hard work on LinkedIn
>>543508692the Haber-Bosch process defeated nature in 1913
>>543509266> jewfixing N out of the air means no more nature needed to grow plants and animalsI commend you for being this stupid but somehow being able to operate a dumbed down technology interface.
>>543496076He’s one aspect of the supply chain and arguably the most easiest to replace. You still need the materials, which need to be bought and shipped in a quantity that negates the price. Then you have a series of machines that make the item, all of which need to be designed and maintained. I’m guess all he does is operate some sort of press that combines the various materials together to produce these ear cups. Then there is the marketing aspect and packaging. There are more steps than this but I think I made my point. He’s doing 0.3% of the labor and being paid fair for it.
>>543497033The biggest flaw with communism is that people themselves are unequal. Some people work harder, some people are smarter, some people are lazy and refuse to do their share of the work for equal pay.
>>543509353that's not what i said
>>543497033cooperative. In my country, 97% of all of them operate at a massive loss.But if you add nationalism into the picture, they won't be doing so badly
>>543496076From the looks of it, those parts look like you basic injection mold plastic parts.Just the mold alone is $10 grand at the very least. If you count all the necessary infrastructure to use those molds, easily at least a couple million dollars. Then there are costs related to wages, maintenance, utilities, insurance, taxes and software licences. He is being underpaid for sure and it isn't fair, but it isn't like he can offer a better deal either.Besides, while he is complaining about making 3000 parts/hour the process is mostly automated. He isn't making shit. He is babysitting the machine.>>543505847>non-compete agreementsHardly an issue if he leaves his manufacturing job.
Capitalism is not the problem, the extent to which it has been perverted is the problem. Like if I club you to death with a frozen leg of lamb, the meat is not the issue, the way it's being used is the issue. Almost every business that exists does so on the principle that it is not only fair but required in a game theory sense to bilk, gouge, con, scam and purloin every last centime out of every last customer in every way possible at every opportunity - because if you don't someone else will, and they'll outcompete you. This is what Judaism taught America, and what America spread to the rest of the world. Look at Lidl. Everyone always says "Wow, Lidl is so cheap! How can it be so cheap?". The answer is A) innovative management and more importantly B) having an attitude that isn't "let's stab our customers in the wallet and fuck the wound". Lidl are launching a mobile plan over here soon, €12.99 for unlimited 5G, domestic calls and minutes, the first 100K customers get it for 8.99 for life. People didn't believe it was true, they thought, how can this possibly be real for so cheap? Lidl rents the service from an existing major provider, so how is it that it's so much cheaper in comparison? The only logical answer - Lidl is not shamelessly robbing you to the same extent that the major provider is. They are making less profit to provide more people with a good product, a concept that is beaten out of MBAs before the graduate by a jew-compromised business sector.
>>543508849Inheritance is the basis of all society and if you oppose it your society gets exponentially weaker until it is destroyed.
>>543496076>become a CommunistsESL jeet, congrats you baited all these retards.
>>543509156>poorfag couldn't describe the actual work of a CEO if chatGPT fed it to himMany such cases.
>>543509058My point is that large numbers of people "win" that way. There is no natural law against idle humans surviving. Do not interpret this as endorsement. After all there is also no natural law against cannibalism.
>>543509911The division of labor is the basis of all society along with the ability of men to be rewarded for said labor with regular sex. Keep licking those gucci boots though, maybe you'll get a raise.
>>543504102No one tell him
