>>543499306
your circumciser jew god is fake and gay and the universe is infinite and does not require a gay jewish circumciser god for any process.

>>543499306
>To actualize a finite temporal timeline out of a timeless state without a prior trigger requires an act of volition (choice), which logically necessitates a Conscious Mind.

False.

>Because being cannot emerge from non-being

Questionable

>>543499406
cmon bro were not in 6th grade grow up also the universe is proved to be finite you retard

>>543499449
I think you might need to provide arguments idiot

>>543499543
>the universe is proved to be finite
nope. its literally infinite and the big bang jew theory has kept failing for 50+ years now.

>>543499406
FPBP
Fuck your abrahamic god.
He's boiling in a pot of shit in the void put there by my gods

>>543499449
Are you fucking retarded? Observer theory proves this out of the box, nigger

God is uncreated, if God were created he would not be the Father Of Creation
It is beyond human understanding

>>543499649
MUh god is better than your god because he mean saaar

>>543499637
First, the Big Bang model was originally formulated in 1927 by Lemaître, a Catholic priest and physicist, and backed by the geometric equations of Albert Einstein and observational data from Edwin Hubble. It has nothing to do with conspiracies. Its accepted universally because its predictions perfectly match experimental observations like the (CMBR).


, your claim that the universe is 'literally infinite' is unproven nonsense. Modern cosmology confirms that the observable universe is finite, spanning a 46.5 billion light-years.

Whether the global universe is flat and infinite, or closed and finite, isn't an open question in physics as the BGV theorem proved, even an infinite expanding matrix requires an absolute past boundary

>>543499649

Strange how the police never ask for imagination statements.

Funny how they never appeal to anyone who may have imagined the crime.

Why do you think that is mongo?

>>543499962
>First, the Big Bang model was originally formulated in 1927 by Lemaître, a Catholic priest
yes a religious retard came up with the big bang model because in an infinite universe his god is fake and gay and has nothing to do.
>and backed
its not actually backed by anything.
>It has nothing to do with conspiracies
yes it does.
>Its accepted universally because
jew funding decides who is "right" and who is "wrong". has nothing to do with actual science.
>Modern cosmology confirms
actually it doesnt confirm it at all, all predictions of the big bang theory have failed.
>like the (CMBR)
jews dont even know what they are looking at and actually the stellar energy output of a galaxy can account for the microwave background without a Big Bang.

>>543499306
>Atheism collapses under the weight of modern cosmology and formal logic
Not really. It's simply an opinion on the existence of God or gods.

An atheist can still believe in souls and/or an afterlife

>>543499306
>Because being cannot emerge from non-being, this beginning demands an external, uncaused, and timeless cause
Even if a timeless first cause is granted, jumping from an "uncaused physical or metaphysical necessity" to a conscious, personal deity (God) introduces unproven assumptions.

Just because every individual part of the universe inside space and time has a cause, it does not logically follow that the universe as a whole requires a cause. For example, every human has a mother, but the human race as a whole does not have a single mother.

>>543500354
When you have to resort to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about funding, homophobic slurs, and calling a world-class MIT/Harvard physicist a retard, you’ve admitted you can't win on the actual merits of the argument. You are copying a failed, 60-year-old 'Steady State' theory that was mathematically debunked because starlight can't produce a perfect blackbody spectrum like the CMBR. Believe whatever conspiracies you want, but don't pretend it's science

>>543499670
>God is uncreated
Which God did you have in mind when typing this?

>>543500533
>Just because every individual part of the universe inside space and time has a cause, it does not logically follow that the universe as a whole requires a cause. For example, every human has a mother, but the human race as a whole does not have a single mother.

>>543499306
I think it's the other way around, I think its abrahamics who are devoid of souls being bound to a desert demon as they are.

>>543500615
are you jewish? how many covid vaccines have you taken?
why should anyone listen to a gay jewish vaxed retard like you?
>starlight can't
yes it can and your jew model and your jew religion are WRONG.

>>543499543
We don't know that the universe is finite.

I for one would say the universe is infinite. And it doesn't require a God either.

>>543499306
All if your jew fairy tales and theoretical physics & math can't explain shit. We are here. It is now. That is all we can know. Everything else is airy words, lies and speculations.

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>>543499306
Shalom!

>>543499306
>Because being cannot emerge from non-being
proof?

>>543500706
i won't engage with the poor kraut he's already mad about being replaced by turk bulls

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btw, it was established in past threads that this "french" poster is, in fact, un juif

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>>543500674
Kek this

>>543499306
Your soul is circumcised.

>>543500740
You are confusing spatial size with temporal history.

My argument is about time, not space.
First, the BGV Theorem accounts for an infinite universe: The Borde-Guth-Vilenkin theorem mathematically proves that any expanding universe must have an absolute past boundary. It does not matter if the universe is infinitely large in space; it cannot be infinite in past time . As cosmologist Vilenkin stated, there is no escaping a cosmic beginning.


thermodynamics rules out an eternal past: The universe is continuously running out of usable energy (entropy is increasing). If the universe had existed for an infinite amount of time, it would have hit total Heat Death an infinite amount of time ago. The fact that we have usable energy today proves the past timeline is finite.


Saying 'I think the universe is infinite' doesn't erase the laws of physics. Even if the universe is infinitely large, its history had a definitive beginning—and that beginning still demands a timeless, conscious Mind to initiate it.

>>543500897
>i won't engage
I accept your concession. running away from this discussion is you admitting you are jewish and retarded and that your religion is fake gay retard shit.
your fake jew god will never be real.

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>>543499306
You are shit colored.

>>543500978
>My argument is about time
>retarded maxxvaxxed brainlet jew cannot understand that time is simply the secondary measurement of movement and not some extra dimension.
typical jew brainfart.

>>543500952
i'm not a jew but you're definitly a jeet

>>543500978
>brainlet jew also never heard about non equilibrium thermodynamics
kek what a moron.

>>543500978
>the BGV Theorem accounts for an infinite universe
No, the BGV theorem does not account for or support an infinite, past-eternal universe; rather, it proves the exact opposite by showing that any universe with an average expansion rate greater than zero must have a past boundary or beginning

>>543501039
prove it, denounce the Talmud and curse the Torah.

>>543501021
anything but responding to my argument lmao , also atheists have highest sucide rates and highest rates of being gay , so JSSID

>>543499306
souls don't exist at all

>>543499306
Try deism. It answers such questions without foreskin contracts or soul protection rackets.

>>543499306
>"Because being cannot emerge from non-being, this beginning demands an external, uncaused, and timeless cause [...]
>To actualize a finite temporal timeline out of a timeless state without a prior trigger requires an act of volition (choice), which logically necessitates a Conscious Mind.

Please explain how one would experience consciousness without time

I sold my soul to God in exchange for eternal paradise.

>>543501071
You just aggressively agreed with me while completely misreading my text.
When I said the BGV theorem 'accounts for' an infinite universe, I meant it applies to it and rules it out.
As I literally stated in my previous message: the BGV theorem mathematically proves that even if a universe is infinitely large in space, it cannot be infinite in past time and must have an absolute past boundary [1204.4658].
Thank you for validating my point. Now that we agree the universe has a definitive past boundary, how do you explain a finite temporal timeline beginning out of a timeless state without a conscious act of volition?"

>>543501166
Assuming Abrahamic, you sold your soul to a jewish volcano demon

>>543501216
>mathematically proves
just because you jew gedankenexperiment works on paper doesnt mean the universe actually works that way.
also where is the Talmud denouncing and the Torah cursing?
when will you prove you arent jewish as you claim?

>>543500978
Ok but whatever natural process created the universe in the first place can do it again and there's no reason that this natural universe-creating process has to be a God.

>>543501126
Deism collapses under the exact same metaphysical laws that defeat atheism.

First, it violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Deism claims God wound up the universe like a clock and walked away. But a closed physical system continuously loses usable energy (entropy increases). Without an external source continuously sustaining it, a hands-off universe is a dying machine destined for absolute Heat Death.
Second, it contradicts the metaphysics of Pure Actuality: The universe is entirely contingent; every particle depends on an external reason to exist at this very moment. Because God is Pure Actuality, He is the source of Being itself. Creation is not a one-time event 13.8 billion years ago its a continuous, moment-by-moment actualization. If the First Cause withdrew its conscious volition for a fraction of a second, the universe would instantly collapse back into non-being.
A 'hands-off' god is a logical myth.
Metaphysics demands Classical Monotheism: a God who initiated the past boundary of time and continuously sustains its existence

>>543501283
jeez you are mindraped by jews it's crazy how obssesed you are with your masters , poor kraut

>>543501344
>is Pure Actuality
this is just a retarded term you made up
it doesn't mean anything

>>543501216
>how do you explain a finite temporal timeline beginning out of a timeless state without a conscious act of volition?"
Alexander Vilenkin himself, one of the authors of the BGV theorem, proposed a model where the universe spontaneously begins via quantum tunneling.

In this framework, "nothing" does not mean absolute metaphysical non-existence. Instead, it refers to a state of literal timelessness and spacelessness—a state with no geometry, no matter, and no time, but where the laws of quantum mechanics still hold.

>>543501344
>But a closed physical system
the universe is an infinite open system.
also you still have not cursed the Torah or denounced the Talmud, care to explain why?

>>543501344
Which crappy LLM are you using so I never have to read something this fucktarded ever again?

>>543501344
>that defeat atheism
You haven't defeated atheism.

All you're doing is a long long winded version of God of the gaps lol

>>543501389
>still no Torah cursing and Talmud denouncing

>>543501284
You re missing the absolute past boundary proven by the BGV theorem and thermodynamics. A 'natural process' cannot exist prior to nature itself.
, a natural process requires space, time, and matter to operate. The BGV theorem mathematically proves that space, time, and matter had an absolute beginning [1204.4658]. If a process requires a physical matrix to function it cannot be the cause of that . You are proposing a physical cause for the origin of physics, which is a =logical contradiction.
, a natural process is an impersonal, mechanical mechanism. As established, a mindless, static mechanical mechanism cannot spontaneously trigger a finite timeline out of a timeless state. If the physical laws or processes were eternal, their effect (the universe) would have to be eternal too. But physics proves the universe is not eternal in the past.
To bridge the gap between timelessness and a finite temporal timeline requires a choice (an act of volition)

>>543501344
>a God who initiated the past boundary of time and continuously sustains its existence
Vishnu fits this bill though. Why assume the jew god is the one? (Not an Indian, just making a point)

>>543501458
see >>543501033 >>543501069 and >>543501409

>>543501406
You just fell directly into the exact logical trap my original argument warned against.
First, you are changing the definition of 'nothing'. You admit this state requires 'the laws of quantum mechanics to still hold.' If physical laws exist, you do not have absolute metaphysical non-being—you have a mathematical matrix. You haven't explained how the universe emerged from non-being; you have just pushed the question back one step to: Where did the laws of quantum mechanics come from?
Second, mathematical laws have zero causal power. As a matter of formal logic, a physical law is a description of how matter and energy behave; it is not an agent that can create matter and energy. The laws of arithmetic can tell you that 1+1=2, but they cannot magically place two dollars in your bank account. Quantum mechanics cannot tunnel a universe into existence unless a concrete, actual physical field already exists to be tunneled from.
Third, a timeless quantum law is a static, mechanical mechanism. If the laws of quantum mechanics existed timelessly, the probability of the universe tunneling into existence would be constant and eternal. If the cause is eternally present, the effect must be eternally present. A mindless, static mathematical law cannot 'wait' for 13.8 billion years and then suddenly decide to trigger a universe.

>>543501458
What we call nature, the visible universe, isn't all that there is. There can be an underlying layer of reality which nature spawns out of, and this layer doesn't have to be a God.

>As established, a mindless, static mechanical mechanism cannot spontaneously trigger a finite timeline out of a timeless state.

It's not static.

>>543501442
Calling this 'God of the gaps' is a lazy defense mechanism to avoid the actual logic.
A 'God of the gaps' argument happens when we don't understand a physical process (like lightning), so we lazily insert 'God did it' as a placeholder for future science.
My argument does the exact opposite. It relies on what we do know, not what we don't:
• We know mathematically that an expanding universe has a past boundary (BGV theorem) [1204.4658].
• We know physically that a closed system continuously runs out of usable energy (Second Law of Thermodynamics).
• We know logically that a mindless, static, timeless mechanism cannot spontaneously trigger a finite timeline without an eternal effect.

>>543501523
>You just fell directly into the exact logical trap my original argument warned against
Sure didn't

In quantum mechanics, the transition from a timeless haze of infinite probabilities (quantum superposition) to a single, finite timeline does not require a conscious observer or an act of will.

>>543501523
>this state
the universe was never in a state of "nothing" to begin with.
its infinite and has no end and no beginning.
>13.8 billion years
made up number, also jews already pushed this number further back because their theory kept failing to explain the current state of the universe.

>>543501564
>to avoid the actual logic
You don't have that. You have a presupposition based around personal feelings and opinions

>>543499306

TRY DMT

>>543501564
>still assumes it must be a closed system when its clearly an open one

>>543501523
>>543501564
There's less than 50 seconds between your posts. In no way is a human capable of reading and then writing a remotely serious argument with citations in this time.

Take your LLM nigger bot thread and kill yourself.

>>543499306
Abrahamics are spirtually dead yet proclaim themselves the only real spiritual beings.

>>543499406
Fpbp

>>543501663
fyi lots of jews suffer from AI psychosis.

>>543499306
There is a misconception about Christianity (the one true faith) that I never see discussed. It's considered to be a monotheistic religion, but people (including self-described Christians) assume that means "there is only one God," when in fact, ask any apostolic clergyman (Orthodox or Roman Catholic) and they will really admit that there are other gods. They are unable to create, of course, and are essentially little more than demons, but there most definitely is more going on spiritually than is commonly discussed.

On the soul, though, everyone has one. Yes, even the jeets. The trouble is, the farther away one is from the light of the Truth, meaning Christ, the darker their soul, meaning blinded and utterly materialistic, deluded as it were, as evidenced by Hindu adherents. Buddhists seek oblivion, utterly oblivious to the fact that the internal emptiness they prize is precisely the breeding ground that demons colonize. Animism is similar.

The one Tru faith is the worship of the God of Abraham, which is Christ Jesus as revealed to us. Judaism emerged antithetically rejected God and made a religion utterly in denial of Him. This is evidenced by their complete lack of Saints and their overt occultism and sorcery. Islam is their creature.

This is the concrete reality that you can either accept or reject. God isn't who you want Him to be, but you can nevertheless get over yourself and come home before it's too late.

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>>543501666
checked

>>543499406
>>543499649
You are both jews

>>543499306
Do Abrahamics have a soul? From what I've seen no. You're all baby cutting, hateful hypocrites.

>>543501823
nope

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>>543499306
God is the first mover, uncaused cause, intelligent design(er), top of the hierarchy and necessary being

>>543501344
Morphology, temperament, etc. cannot be known. No access to that realm. I'm not taking Paul's word for it, him being a man and tribe member with self-interests. Whatever's behind it all and started it having a moral code is a non-sequitur. He created or first-caused men where 5% of their constitution is such that they no capacity for empathy, compassion, theory of mind or moral reasoning capacity, a. k. a., psychopaths. I have no standing to judge that (beyond my paygrade) but rational inferences can be made from it.

>>543501755
>Christianity (the one true faith)
Which brand?

>>543501885
You're welcome to your personal feelings and opinions

>>543501892
He's an Orthonigger, I can tell

>>543501892
The OG of course. Holy Orthodoxy. All deviations need not apply.

>>543502078
>The OG of course. Holy Orthodoxy
Ah, your favorite one

>>543502077
At your service.

That isn't to say that there isn't virtue or even holiness or even the Holy Spirit outside of Orthodoxy, because nobody can claim the monopoly on God, but the closest thing to the Truth is the church founded by Christ on earth, in an unbroken and unadulterated (if humanly imperfect) chain of apostolic succession.

>>543499306
> a finite temporal timeline
if only you knew what temporal means..

You are the universe experiencing itself, behave like it.
Try to learn that you would not know a single thing at all (not about god or the universe) if you didn't hear anything you ever learnt about. All we do since birth is believing others, and we hear about hate and love and science and religion. The only difference is that proven science, hate and love can be experienced and recalculated exactly every single time. God can not, because god can only be believed in, and will never be a possible explanation for anything because he was never a theorem, but always a hypothesis.

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>>543502016
>personal feelings and opinions
I am not a Protestant, pendejo. Objective reality was spoken into existence by Christ who incarnated in the flesh and founded a VISIBLE CHURCH for our salvation.

>>543502179
>apostolic succession
Lmao, anyone can be that. No need for man made barriers

>>543502215
>Objective reality
Truth is unfaithful

>>543499306
Probably not. "Posessing" a soul is an entirely abrahamic concept.

>>543499306
>>543499406
The soul is in the foreskin

>>543502179
So you believe the thing about the 70 Alexandrian jews independently translating the Hebrew Torah in the exact same way? The Septuagint story?

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>>543502254
Truth is literally a person, Christ Jesus, who founded the Catholic Church. Nulla salus extra ecclesiam Catholicam

>>543502223
No, you can't fake the authority of a bishop who himself was consecrated by a bishop who himself was consecrated by a bishop who himself was consecrated by a bishop who himself was consecrated by a bishop who himself was consecrated by a bishop who himself was consecrated by a bishop (ad 2000 years)... who was consecrated by one of the Twelve Apostles. That is Apostolic succession, that is the real transfer of Grace as ordained by Christ Himself, and it cannot be falsified.

>>543502390
>Truth is literally a person, Christ Jesu
That's your subjective opinion

>>543502411
>the authority of a bishop
Means nothing to salvation through Christ

>>543500863
To note one thing. Science is not meant to explain anything. It describes and models.

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>>543502484
You argue like a braindead coomer. You have no erudition whatsoever. Grow up

>>543502484
Nah, means something for sure. Those whom He literally told "what you you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven and what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven" to their faces have an authentic mandate that you can't pick up from Walmart.

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>>543502411
You really think someone would do that?

Just gain a Bishopric and tell lies?

>>543502620
You're welcome to your personal feelings and opinions

>>543502622
>Nah, means something for sure
Quote where a Christ said another man is required for salvation instead of having faith in Him

>>543502390
Platonic bullshit. "Truth" is a grandiose abstraction without a referent meant of the descriptive logical value, "true". Atheists have their own, "reality", pointing again to nothing real. More Platonic bullshit.

>>543502622
>He literally told "what you you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven
And what did Peter do 3x after?

>>543502411
Can their hats be faked?

>>543500978
There is no actual argument here. You simply state that the universe had to be created by this conscious mind. And besides even if you were granted that, there is no way to get from that to the Jew god specifically.

>>543499306
Christ is King

>>543502307
It's a fantastic story. I choose to trust it. I have no qualms that 70 Hebrew scholars were selected, but that they each independently translated it and there was not one discrepancy is beyond my humble human capability. That said, I believe that this is what the Lord willed for us to have. In the end, it is the best translation of the OT around. It's immense utility in granting peoples of the whole world access to the ancient text is bar none. Especially since portions of the Torah are difficult to parse even for the ancient 1st temple Hebrews, let alone modern protestants at Bible study. So we have as ever, something profound for those with faith and something for the crosshairs of scorn for those who don't. I love the way the Lord operates.

>>543502743
You mean the threefold denial before the crucifixion that is forgiven threefold after the resurrection? I'm not sure how this nullifies the Church against which the gates of hell shall not prevail.

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>>543499406
>your circumciser jew god is fake and gay and the universe is infinite and does not require a gay jewish circumciser god for any process.

>>543502724
Quote me where I said so?

>>543502945
lmao triggered a jew

>>543500622
>>Just because every individual part of the universe inside space and time has a cause, it does not logically follow that the universe as a whole requires a cause.
It does however logically follow that it requires a multiple of causes - one for each thing.
With the universe being the ensemble of all things and not a distinct thing.
>for example, every human has a mother, but the human race as a whole does not have a single mother.
Logical fallacy.
The human race is composed by the entirety of the individuals so the human race has a multitude of mothers bc each individual necessarily has a mother.

>>543499306
Abraham is a cunt, he spawned nothing but lies and fallacies.

>>543502943
>threefold denial before the crucifixion
>>543502622
>what you you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven
Womp womp

>>543502943
>forgiven threefold after the resurrection?
Who forgave him? Sure want a "Bishop" was it?

>>543502965
Sure
>>543502622
>means something for sure

Abrahamics dont have souls. They're all Saturn worshipping freaks. Especially jews and then Muslims. Christians are better.

>>543503029
He was a good and imperfect guy who learned his lesson and turned from his foolish and wicked deeds towards alignment with the truth. You'll be alright, Ahmed.

>>543503021
>>for example, every human has a mother, but the human race as a whole does not have a single mother.
>Logical fallacy.
No, the statement itself is not a logical fallacy. In fact, the statement is a perfectly accurate logical observation used to point out a fallacy.

>>543503021
>so the human race has a multitude of mothers
Thanks for agreeing

>>543499306
Yahweh is Set lmao

>>543499306
abrahamics have no soul*

They outsource it to jewish schizophrenic ramblings.

>>543499406
bodied that shit colored abrahfreak

>>543503145
Muslims and Pajeets are both scum, I guess I am talking to Pajeet, when are you changing your flag to a giant pile of shit?

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The Bible is not ancient-- it was fabricated a couple centuries before Jesus (who was also a literary construction)

Full text:
https://archive.org/details/berossus-and-genesis-manetho-and-exodus-hellenistic-histories-and-the-date-of-th

Russell Gmirkin proposes a revolutionary thesis: the entire Pentateuch (Genesis through Deuteronomy) was written in the third century BCE (specifically 273–272 BCE), rather than during the Persian or Exilic periods. Gmirkin argues that the text was collaboratively composed by jewish scholars in Alexandria, Egypt, and relies heavily on Hellenistic-era historical and geographical writings.

Literary Dependence on Greek Texts: Rather than drawing on ancient Near Eastern oral traditions or early documents, the biblical authors made direct use of recently published Hellenistic histories housed in the Library of Alexandria.

Genesis and Berossus: The creation, Garden of Eden, and flood narratives in Genesis 1–11 are uniquely and specifically dependent upon the Babyloniaca written by the Babylonian priest Berossus in 278 BCE.

Exodus and Manetho: The Exodus story was largely written as a counter-narrative to the Aegyptiaca (History of Egypt) by the Egyptian historian Manetho (c. 285–280 BCE), which portrayed the ancestors of the jews as lepers and undesirable foreigners who were expelled from Egypt.

The Table of Nations: The geographical and political data points in Genesis 10 (the Table of Nations) reflect the geopolitical realities of the early Hellenistic world rather than the second millennium BCE.

The Septuagint Parallel: Gmirkin connects the authorship of the Hebrew Pentateuch to the jewish scholars traditionally credited with translating the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible) under Ptolemy II.

State Sponsorship: He suggests the Bible was commissioned as an approved, foundational national literature for the jewish diaspora in Alexandria.

>>543499306
You have it backwards. It is jews and their worshipers who are blinded to divine light.

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The Elephantine papyri (c. 495–399 BCE) document a Jewish military colony in Egypt that possessed its own temple to Yahu (Yahweh) and engaged in practices that contradict the Deuteronomistic law central to modern Jewish historicity. This community lacked knowledge of the Torah or written Hebrew Bible, offering sacrifices at a local temple rather than in Jerusalem, which challenges the narrative that monotheistic centralization was universally established by the Persian period.

Key implications for the historicity of Judaism include:

Syncretistic Worship: Inscriptions reveal the invocation of deities like Anat-Yahu and Asherah alongside Yahweh, suggesting the transition to strict monotheism occurred later or was not uniform across the Diaspora.

Absence of Biblical Authority: The community’s leaders petitioned the High Priest in Jerusalem for ritual guidance but never cited biblical law, indicating the Pentateuch was not yet the authoritative text for all Judeans.

Dating of Biblical Texts: Since these papyri predate all extant Hebrew Bible manuscripts, they suggest that the codification of Jewish law and the suppression of polytheistic elements may have been a later development, potentially post-dating the Persian period.
Ultimately, Elephantine reveals a pluralistic religious landscape where Jewish identity was defined more by ethnic and political ties to Jerusalem than by adherence to a unified, monotheistic scripture

>more evidence jewish monotheism didn't even exist before 300 BC Alexandria. None of the bible happened except echoes of Babylonian, Greek, and Egyptian creation stories and histories. Then the Hellenic jews slapped that all together and dipped it in Yahweh sauce and called it the most ancient religion on earth.

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>>543502776
Nothing can cause itself to exist. Infinity is impossible, an abstract idea that doesnt exist in reality. You think like a pagan mudhut person

>>543503051
I can't speak for what you read there, but it's clearly struck some chord with you. Nowhere in what I said do I say that you must be "in" to go to heaven. The Church does not teach that, because Christ did not teach that. He taught that "to whom much is given, much is required." Every reference (literally every) reference to damnation in the whole of Scripture is for those who follow the Lord but seek to do so on their own terms. This doesn't mean that you have to be this or that, but the Lord gave you something. He gives every human being something: their conscience. For some who need it, it leads to humility and grace. For those who spurn it are led to bitterness and resentment. But we are fortunate to have a God that does not seek the death of what he created. Nobody is telling you that you need a pope or a bishop, namefag. Only that Christ founded a church, have it authority, and from day one it was as flawed and as human as we are, but... The gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

>>543503460
The Elephantine Papyri (5th century BCE) reveal a Jewish community whose religious practice conspicuously lacks core concepts that later defined normative Judaism. These absences suggest that central tenets of the Torah and Deuteronomic law were either unknown or not yet authoritative for this diaspora group.

1. Absence of Biblical Narratives and Patriarchs
The most striking omission is the total lack of reference to the foundational stories of the Pentateuch.

No Patriarchs or Heroes: Among over 160 Jewish names recorded, none derive from biblical figures such as Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Samuel, or David.
No Exodus Tradition: The papyri contain no mention of the Exodus from Egypt, the bondage in Egypt, or any other historical event recorded in the Torah. Scholars note that "Moses might never have existed" based solely on these texts.
No Written Torah: The community never appeals to the authority of a written law or "Book of Moses" in their legal or religious disputes, even when corresponding with Jerusalem.

2. Violation of Centralization and Monotheism
The community’s theology and cultic practice contradict the strict monotheism and centralization mandated in Deuteronomy.

Polytheistic/Henotheistic Pantheon: Alongside Yahu (Yahweh), the papyri explicitly invoke Anat-Yahu (possibly a consort), Ashim-Bethel, and Anat-Bethel. This suggests a polytheistic or henotheistic system where Yahweh was part of a divine family, rather than the sole deity.

Local Temple Sacrifices: They maintained a fully functional temple at Elephantine offering animal sacrifices and incense. This directly violates the Deuteronomic law requiring all sacrifices to be performed solely at the Temple in Jerusalem. The Jerusalem priesthood’s correspondence with them shows no condemnation of this "heretical" practice, implying the law of centralization was not yet enforced or accepted.

>>543503461
Everything is an idea before it exist a chair was just an idea at one point

>>543503467
>Nowhere in what I said do I say that you must be "in" to go to heaven.
Then your shit Church isn't needed

Or any church really

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3. Lack of Sabbath Observance
Contrary to the later strict prohibition of work on the Sabbath, the Elephantine Jews appear to have treated the seventh day as a normal business day.

Commercial Activity: Legal documents, marriage contracts, and loan agreements are explicitly dated to and executed on the Sabbath.
No Ritual Rest: There is no evidence of the Sabbath as a day of rest or holy convocation in their daily life, suggesting the codification of Sabbath law was a later development or not universally binding in the 5th century BCE.

4. Absence of Dietary Laws (Kashrut)
The papyri show no evidence of Kashrut (kosher dietary laws).

Dietary Freedom: The community’s records mention the consumption of various animals without distinction between clean and unclean species. There are no references to prohibitions against pork or shellfish, nor any separation of meat and milk, which are central to later Jewish identity.

5. Different Festival Observance
While they observed a "Feast of Unleavened Bread," its character differs from the biblical Passover.

Agricultural vs. Historical: The festival appears to be celebrated as an agricultural harvest ritual rather than a commemoration of the Exodus. The papyri do not link the eating of matzah to the haste of leaving Egypt or the story of the plagues.

Persian Influence: The instructions for this festival (the "Passover Letter") came from a Persian official (Hananiah) relaying a decree from King Darius II, rather than from biblical commandment, indicating the community relied on imperial or oral tradition rather than scripture for festival dates.

>>543503255
Hate what they do, anon. God have is anger for a reason - it's a tool, and like any tool it can be misused. The improper use is aimless hatred, irrational seething. The proper use of anger is to control it and direct it at the source of evil, the sin itself.

>>543499306
Everyone has a sould except you jew worshippers.

>>543503574
Faith and love for God Almighty will lead you to a place where you don't speak such evil. I pray you find it, and that it lead you to a lighter burden.

>>543503644
>where you don't speak such evil
What evil am I speaking?

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>>543499406

>>543503535
A chair, the thing itself and the idea of a chair is an universal. Love, war, chair, human, animal etc are universals. Anyone on the planet understands what you mean when you use these words. Epistemology, do you speak it? The idea isnt first, reality leads. You think like a pagan Asian, why dont you go back to India. Subjectivism is anti-Western metaphysics

>>543503589
Yes, because we are all born with sin, we are such humble and meek animals.

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6. Non-Aaronic Priesthood
The priestly structure at Elephantine does not align with the Aaronic lineage required by the Torah.

Priestly Titles: While they had priests (kahen), there is no evidence linking them to the lineage of Aaron or the tribe of Levi as strictly defined in later biblical law. Their priesthood functioned independently of the Jerusalem hierarchy’s genealogical requirements.

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>>543503467
You have to be a Catholic and die in state of sanctifying grace to enter heaven. There is no salvation outside of His church.

>>543503789
>You have to be a Catholic and die in state of sanctifying grace to enter heaven
No where does Christ say this

>>543499306
>rip off neoplatonism and platonic thought
>makes this retarded thread
christians are always so ridiculously uneducated about anything other than their myths

the sheer insolence of a group of kike puppets who worship a jew as literal God outright stealing the philosophy of greco roman civilization, but then decrying that civilization as "evil" and the jews who had zero philosophy as righteous is absurd

This pestilence of jewish religion must be expunged from european society.

Monotheism is not initially proposed by abrahamics you ignorant subhuman fucking descendant of a peasant.

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>>543503789
>t.papist nigger

>>543503710
Then let's try another example the internet was just and idea a science fiction fantasy until it wasn't, infinity is real if it wasn't it wouldn't occupy our thoughts

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Get the vaxx or burn in hell

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Let sandniggers take over your nations goy, it's what Jesus would want

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>>543503846
The trinity is nowhere in the Bible yet the whole Christian world uses this idea. Christ left the keys to His Kingdom to His church. Yes, it is that simple. The Catholic Church safeguards his teachings. Only they can forgive you for your sins. Every time you read your Bible you submit to the Catholic Church. They compiled it, they decided which books were in and which were out.

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>Contradicts entire basis of the need for Christ

>>543503789
you're a dumb 90 IQ animal who has no basic conception of theology and philosophy outside of stolen concepts from greece and rome by jew worshipers which you idiots distort

your religion promotes tolerance for lgbt, vatican 2 is literally written partially by a gay jew who called all past popes who criticized jews evil, and your current popes are just liberal race traitors owned by jews

you are the enemy perhaps more so than any other christian denomination, it is of paramount importance that the vatican is entirely couped and replaced with pro white clergy, either that or destroyed entirely

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>I'm not blessing gay marriage, I'm blessing gays that are in marriage!

>>543500388
No it's not. It's a logical imposibility accepted only by brainwashed midwits which agressively and arrogantly promote it.
>believe in souls afterlife
No, that's the very premise of atheism - no supernatural.
>>543500615
Yeah he's a schizo and highly probable a jew. Apparently jews want goyms to worship the universe and not THE CREATOR.

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>le based Trad crusaders

>>543503877
>babby that is too dumb to understand basic theology
Perdition incoming. Submit to His church or die the death

>>543503980
I oppose all Abrahamics, but being a white Roman Catholic is just a completely different level of cucked

>>543503884
>infinity is real if it wasn't it wouldn't occupy our thoughts
Everything in existence has a beginning and an end. Nowhere do we see infinity.

>>543504030
it's this level of absurd hypocrisy which makes me despise catholicism more than anything

the protestants are just retards who are owned by israel, and orthodox are just russian propagandists

but catholics will pretend to be whatever the person they're trying to convert is to reel them in, then the reality seeps in that it's just globo homo cia bullshit with smells and bells

>>543503971
>Christ left the keys to His Kingdom to His church
To the Son of Man.

>Only they can forgive you for your sins.
Antithetical to the bible

John 20:23 ("If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven") means that believers have the authority to declare God's forgiveness based on the gospel, rather than possessing personal power to grant or deny salvation

>>543504043
>No it's not
Sure is

>>543504043
>believe in souls afterlife
>No, that's the very premise of atheism
No dummy, the premise is God or gods..
>>543504030

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>>543500615
>anti-Semitic conspiracy theories

>>543504124
I'm not a Marxist, but I think he had a point with the "opiate of the masses" thing

Facing the brutal reality of our situation is more than most whites can stomach

>>543504019
Yes, Catholicism promotes gay sex, abortion and gay marriage. Totally. Got more, teenager?

>>543504124
That's the problem with deviations from the Truth, that even with good intentions, you find yourself on the way to hell.

>>543504228
There's true alternatives to jewish fairy tales. Christians tend to be imbeciles anyways, why would we want to salvage these idiot monkeys who fall for basic jewish tricks and superstition? we'd just breed another generation of goyim retards who fall for jewish tricks and eventually liberalize again.

The brutal reality is that white people who fall for jewish religions are not worth preserving in the first place. If someone is too stupid to see catholicism is a jewish trick when it openly shills globalist anti white ideology I don't know what to say, they're just a genetic defective and a liability.

>>543503789
See, that's why I think people need to understand the Great Schism more better.

>>543504075
The papists theology is "fuck the Bible, we gave you da Bible, our inventions > scripture, submit to the Roman pontiff", and of course said pontiff is always pushing the latest globohomo bullshit like open borders, vaxxing and accepting faggots

>>543504266
lying chrigger fuck you and your family's lives

the pope takes friendly meetings with pro trans and openly gay "priest" Martin while chastising the "tradcaths" for opposing jewish vatican 2 propaganda and their hard stance against lgbt

I never mentioned anything about abortion you dumb brown animal.

Your priests now "bless" gays who are married and make the cope of saying "well it's a generic blessing"

Meanwhile prior to jewish control of the church the pope would call for the deaths of sodomites regularly.

You're a fucking plague, you need to be sent to a re-education camp or just deported from white society entirely.

>>543504145
No, protestant, that is not how to read it. Christ want talking to whoever, the context matters. He was talking directly to His apostles. Not everyone is an apostle. Just because you feel differently is insufficient argumentation.

Atheist here

I definitely do not have a soul. Neither do you.

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>>543504439
Imago Dei. Are you a Christian when you want to kill homosexuals? Now post the Catholic dogma where it states that homosexuals are saved? It is a mortal sin and a sin that cries out for vengeance from God. This is Catholic theology. Lying on the internet is so Protestant

>>543504328
What alternative is there, really? What explains who you are, where your from, why you're here, and the point of the suffering better than Christ? From your answer I can see that you have no idea what you're on about, except for fedora tipping. Granted, Western Christianity is a sad parody of the Truth, but be careful to paint with too broad a brush.

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>>543504266
Tell me, What's the religion of the lady signing in the abortion til moment of birth law?
What is the religion of 6/9 supreme court justices, who consistently rule for open borders?

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>>543499306
It's literally desert nigger folklore. The only difference between abrahamism and paganism is at some point the Jews in charge wanted to convince the rabble to massacre the other Canaanites so they retconned YHWH as the only god and called the other gods demons. If you want to change your stance to some kind of deism that's fine, but deism is completely inconsequential to daily life and not really worth discussing.

>>543503789
Religion is a mental illness

>>543504118
Everywhere we see isn't everything sounds like pride to me if nothing if infinite then God doesn't exist

>>543504539
see you lie brazenly again race traitor

are you going to sit here and deny that past popes prior to jewish dominance of your church did not call for the death penalty for sodomites?

What cries out to vengeance from God is catholic garbage siding with jewry which calls your Jesus the son of a whore and is burning in excrement. You people made it dogmatic to defend and honor these people. You are therefore the enemy along with your families.

You see even I as a pagan neoplatonist show more honor and respect to Jesus Christ than you do. You spit on his memory by subscribing to the religion which honors his murderers and slanderers as heroes of history.

>>543504451
>that is not how to read it
According to your subjective interpretation. No wait, someone else's that you borrowed
>>543504451
>Not everyone is an apostle.
Incorrect

17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

This is Jesus telling his disciples about those who believe in him

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>>543504738
Totally, look at what all this non-religion got us: abortion, race mixing, endless immigrants, euthanasia, no morals, no marriage, feminism, wokeism, homosexuality, transgenderism, postmodernism etc etc. Netherlands is the most rotten disgusting country in the West. Fun thing, basically everyone is mixed with Indonesians already, the Dutch will cull themselves as the good progressive goyim that they are.

>>543499306
Understand there are more God’s that came before your Aramaic, Arabic, and Abrahamic cultures and religions. Your feeblemind cannot comprehend that eventually as above so below and all multiple paths leads to one.

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This books explains it all. Read it asap

>>543499406
Fippy bippy
Kikeslaves will mald
They NEED a jewish master

>>543504580
Greco Roman paganism, indo european philosophy and religion (pre hindu), Asatru, Germanic religion.

Because European paganism is syncretic, it explains where and how we came from in a more succinct and less superstitious way than jewish mythology about one man one woman committing vast amounts of incest to build humanity.

There is no explicit dogma to the degree of jewish nonsense, which allows us to remain free enough in our understanding of reality to not be bogged down by idiotic fantasies like talking donkeys etc. but also has enough moral and philosophical clarity to hold to a strong form panentheism which was present throughout all pagan tradition.

It's not about fedora tipping, atheism is as jewish a movement as christianity.

Eastern christianity is just as jewish and cucked as western, it is just controlled by russian state propagandists and not cia agents.

European paganism is the development of our genes, our people. It is optimized for our worship and nobody else. Christianity failed with white people and we all dropped it for atheism precisely because it is genetically jewish and does not speak to our true sensibilities.

To the extent that there are overlaps with greco roman morality ie. monogamy, anti homosexuality, large family building was derived from hellenization of jewish theology by being captured by Rome in Judea. This is why christianity has no philosophy, it just copy pastes Aristotle, Proclus, Plotinus, Plato and plops jewish nonsense atop it.

>>543504896
No, wait more! The apostolic tradition itself which authored the New Testament! Wow! Could it be?

>>543505095
From this answer in can see that you know little about Eastern Christianity, but even less about yourself. Keep learning.

Abrahamism has no appeal to me, it requires you to put your faith in books written by semites for semites. It requires you to accept the Hebrew account of history, which is false. Exodus alone js enough to make me throw everything else into the trash.

>>543499306
All abrahamic religions are from the jews ultimately. That means all abrahamic religions are based on lies, since the jews have never told one truth in their entire lives.

>>543504896
I see that context is a useless angle for you. Everything must apply to you, personally, and infallibly. You're your own pope!

>>543499306
>I get the appeal of worshiping the gods of your ethnic group but cmon man but they seem like a laughing stock more than making me angry , like seriously .
That's because they don't actually believe in anything, they're atheists or nihilists who like the aesthetic but don't have any inclination towards any real spirituality. Same goes for so-called "christians" who larp for the aesthetics and the feeling of belonging.
80% of people in any random group are dumb, soulless cattle who are doing whatever they are doing on autopilot. The reason why christianity seems to have more spiritual people is because that, when someone is interested in religion, he will obviously go for the most widely available option around him, which is usually christianity or islam.

>>543505102
>apostolic tradition
More man made nonsense

Those passages are Jesus telling the apostles to go and make disciples of all nations who then become apostles.

What does the word apostles mean bud?one who is sent out. And that's what becomes of a believer. They, inturn, go out and spread the Gospel

>>543505209
Kek, this clown is getting flustered lmao

>>543505252
Who wrote the New Testament, anon?

>>543505235
>The reason why christianity seems to have more spiritual people
Easy. Catholicism is the largest religion because it is true. God wouldnt want it any other way, it is His universe afterall

>>543505278
I'm getting excited because I'm leaving the office now. God be with you!

>>543505324
Greeks and Jews

>>543505354
Lmao

>>543504328
We will annilhate you ,

>>543505347
>Catholicism is the largest religion because it is true.
>schism
>Vatican 2
>Jesuits
Lol

>>543504189
>No dummy, the premise is God or gods..
And how does the Soul, which is Supernatural, exist without God, you retarded midwit?

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>>543505492
Try formulating a coherent argument, Amerikek. I, too, can spout meme words.

>>543505500
Why is a God or gods require to have a soul?

It isn't, simple as. It's you fags who are the actual midwits

>>543505583
>acts like a leftist to pretend not to understand
Kek

>>543505583
What exactly was the meme words I. The argument also how can infinity not exist but God is real?

>>543505645
So Catholicism isnt the largest religion on the planet? You havent said anything. I have trouble understanding midwits

>>543505692
Infinity cannot exist for it doesnt have a beginning. What do you not understand here? For something to exist, it must start existing first. Infinity is an abstract idea, it exists nowhere in reality. Ipsum esse subsistens.

>>543505713
>So Catholicism isnt the largest religion on the planet?
Is that what I said? Sure isn't
Too stupid for nuance. The real midwit

>>543505713
Having brown hordes say the are catholic isn't the same as having human followers

>>543505806
>Infinity cannot exist for it doesnt have a beginning
Who was the beginning of your favorite flavor of God?

>>543505806
Then God doesn't exist

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>>543505809
Didnt Christ say that even in His church there would be rotten eggs? Nothing in this fallen world can be perfect like Christ, not even His Church. Learn2theology, kid. His Church wont fall though, it will be here until the end of history.

>>543499649
Tell me about it, earth is hell right now.
Dealing with the turds like you. Man, really grinds my gears.

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>>543505842
God always was, always is and always will be. In saecula saeculorum. Anymore basic theology questions, kiddo?

>>543505980
>Infinity isn't real
>defines Infinity

>>543505932
>Didnt Christ say that even in His church there would be rotten eggs?
Like the Catholic Church

>it will be here until the end of history.
With gay marriage and a woman Pope, coming soon

>>543505980
>God always was, always is and always will be
You just said
>>543505806
>Infinity cannot exist for it doesnt have a beginning
Therefore your God can't be eternal according to your own logic

>>543506035
Right? These people are the dumbest people around

Just so you know in like 100 yrs all these religions will be gone and something new will take its place.

>>543506037
God is eternal, He exists outside of time and space. Infinity is abstract, it doesnt exist in reality. Everything clearly has a beginning and an end. Finis

>>543505347
Did you forget the part where Jesus said the path was narrow and few would find it. I forgot, you are a papist you don't read the Bible, lest you try to do the evil of interpreting it yourself without a priest with his hands down your pants

>>543506137
God doesn't exist in reality so he is just an abstract concept? Sounds Jewish

>>543499306
>Am I retarded jewish cultist that has been brainwashed into thinking I am correct about everything?
FTFY

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>>543506110
>something new
Yes, the religion of the Antichrist. Have fun!

>>543506137
>God is eternal,
You're contradicting yourself
>>543505806
>Infinity cannot exist for it doesnt have a beginning
Lol

>>543506226
Reality is time and space. God exists outside of it. Try inferring a little harder so I dont have to repeat myself ad infinitum

>>543503605
sounds harsh to damn your grand father and mother and your great grand fatther and mother and also 60 percent of your country like that , respect your ancestors at least man

>>543503029
sounds like a cope

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>>543506300
>God doesn't exist in reality

>>543503008
why is everyone who you disagree with a jew , became a buzzword

>>543502296
jeets and greeks alr had the thing so no

>>543506300
Anything outside of reality is subjective an you earlier discredited subjective reality so God had to exist in objective reality or not at all also reality is more then just time and space"

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>>543506336
Correct, because if he did he had to be contingent which he clearly isnt or nothing would have existed at all. Contingent beings cant cause themselves to exist. Going in circles here. Try a metaphysics 101 course, kid. This is so tiring

>>543501814
Hitler liked Christianity and Islam you nigger , he protected mount athos and build churches instaid of destroying them and accepted devout muslims in ranks , he found paganism to be retarded tho

>>543505613
Bc the Soul emanates from GOD and ONLY from GOD you projecting retard.

>>543501409
I will never curse the work of G-d you retard , I4M NOT A GENTILE

>>543506448
>Correct
Glad we agree. It only exist in your personal feelings and opinions

>>543506475
>Bc the Soul emanates from GOD and ONLY from GOD
That's just your personal opinion

>>543506300
Your gorgon about energy,conscience,and the information drive of the universe

>>543501406
you don't actually understand the philosophical implications of the model you just quoted.

You just accidentally surrendered to Stage 3 of my argument.
Think about your own words: You claim 'nothing' means a state of timelessness and spacelessness, but where the laws of quantum mechanics still hold.
Here is why your argument completely collapses:
If physical laws exist independent of space, time, and matter, they must exist as abstract mathematical structures in a non-physical realm. But abstract mathematical laws are inert descriptions. The equations of quantum mechanics don't have engines; they cannot physically do anything, nor can they enforce themselves upon a void.
• The Mind Obligation: Alexander Vilenkin himself explicitly recognized this exact philosophical crisis. his own papers and interviews, he admits that if the laws of physics exist before space and time, they must exist in a Platonic realm. He famously asked: 'Where are these laws written? If there is no space or time, what medium do they exist in?' he concluded that the only things that exist independently of space-time but carry operational mathematical intent are abstract concepts found within a Mind.
By invoking a timeless, spaceless state ruled by precise mathematical equations that can actualize a reality, you aren't describing a mindless material accident. You are literally describing the Mind of God using the vocabulary of a physics textbook. Thanks for proving my point.

>>543499306
We're the only ones who do.

>>543506613
>philosophical implications
You mean your personal feelings and opinions

Another over winded example of God of the gaps

>>543501755
>any apostolic clergyman (Orthodox or Roman Catholic) and they will really admit that there are other gods
No they don't you lying leaf. They would be apostates if they did i.e. NOT Christian anymore. GOD - The Holy Trinity, Angels, Demons, Men either in Heaven some as Saints or in Hell. Nothing inbetween. Simple as.

>>543501137
Category Mistake Fallacy. You are taking the extreme limitations of physical, human consciousness and trying to force them onto a timeless, immaterial Mind.
• Human Consciousness is Sequential: Because humans are trapped in space and matter, our brains process thoughts like a movie tape , one frame at a time. We move from state A (not thinking about a planet) to state B (thinking about a planet). That sequence requires time.*
A timeless, immaterial Mind does not think in a sequence. It does not look back at a memory or look forward to a future goal. God experiences all knowledge, thoughts, and intentions in one single, eternal, and simultaneous flash of absolute awareness.*
Inside God, there is no 'before' or 'after' His choice to create. He eternally and unchangingly possesses the conscious determination to actualize our timeline. The change doesn't happen inside His conscious state; the change happens entirely on our side when the timeline He eternally willed begins at T0

>>543501866
Yep

>>543499406
>your circumciser jew god is fake and gay and the universe is infinite and does not require a gay jewish circumciser god for any process.
Lol. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Here's the ACTUAL truth:

https://x.com/i/status/2099802242542968909

You're welcome.

>>543502016
Facts

>>543506807
Glad we agree :^)

>>543499306
The Allegory of the Cave was a subtle mockery of the Graeco-Romans by informing them that "their" gods were in fact the gods of the Punics, that they had all been initiated into the saturnine mysteries of the very god they abhorred without their knowledge.

>>543506751
>A timeless, immaterial Mind does not think in a sequence. It does not look back at a memory or look forward to a future goal
You don't know that.

>>543503173
>No, the statement itself is not a logical fallacy. In fact, the statement is a perfectly accurate logical observation used to point out a fallacy.
No it's not and no it doesn't. I was refwring to the universe source statement and you made a false anlogy with human race and mothers. As I pointed out the Universe stiil needs to have at least a cause. By your logic it has a multitude of causes not no cause.
>>so the human race has a multitude of mothers
>Thanks for agreeing
Not agreeing. The human race still has and necesarily need to have a multitude of mothers. By this logic universe has a multitude of causes not just one.

>>543504539
>kill
Cure
But if cure is rejected...