No serious question WTF are they talking about.I am watching right now this compilationhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMSza4e_8fMAnd from my own experience lots of products get destroyed because of accidents or the machine fucking up (and by lots I mean 1%). Should overproduction not be a good thing? Since you know you need to make more then what is demanded or you are fucked once something goes wrong and you can not deliver food on time?All you get back is>bla bla [Engels schizophrenia]>bla bla [Marx schizophrenia]i think this is impressive to people who mistake their inability to understand a schizo for the schizo being right?
>>543751728Communism is a scheme to control producers (white people) by redirecting and overconsuming the product of their labor. It usually involves useless unproductive people being put in charge (jews) and still more useless unproeuctive people being made team members and beneficiaries of the production i.e. welfare recipients, immigrants, diversity hires.
>>543752265I just looked into leftypol and they have a thread debating if they should abolish prisons.Fucken Clown show!
>>543751728Is that Indian terrorism?
>>543752265white people don't produce anything, we stopped once it was apparent chinks and poos could do it cheaper while the consumer still pays the same. free market logic. that said, communism is more gay
>>543751728Marxist here.90% of Online "Communists" don't know anything about Communist economic theories or Materialist production. They're just a bunch of jumped up Slave Morality cultists. It's why most ""Communists"" are against AI, despite Marx would see it as one of the most important technologies for Socialism to take place.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_composition_of_capitalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci-Mm_TUS0E>All you get back is>bla bla [Engels schizophrenia]>bla bla [Marx schizophrenia]Nobody who actually reads Marx or Engels gives a single fuck about "overproduction" lmao, again it causes OCC and TRPF which is a requirement for Socialism to take place.
>>543753023>Marxist here.OK can you answer the question about overproduction?
>>543752389Ask them if they would love to motive to Somalia, since Somalia did just that.
>>543751728>whats wrong with waste and pollutioncapitalists...when youre living in a pajeet nightmare of garbage streets and toxic rivers remember what path you followed, and of which use was it
>>543753271Curently the debate is>b-b-b- you agree people should go to prison for rape yes???>>>>STOP TRYING TO SIMPLIFY THE WORLD SO MUCH REEEE!!!!! You know leftypol conditioned me to simply expect that the left wants to abolish money however this is a new one.
Capitalism produces a contradiction it can produce too much and yet not enough.We build millions of apartments, factories pour forth cars, warehouses fill with commodities. And still most of us can't afford homes, can't afford to fill those same cars, struggle with getting basic needs to live.The capitalist does not ask Does society need this? He asks: Can this be sold at a profit? (Exchange value vs Use value)Thus what appears as “overproduction” is not an excess of wealth in any human sense. It is an excess of commodities relative to the purchasing power of the millennial, the Zoomer. The house stands empty not because humanity has no need of it, but because the Millennial, the Zoomer has no money with which to claim it.The very productive forces that could free humanity from scarcity become under capitalism, the source of crisis. Factories are closed, workers dismissed, houses left vacant not because society has too much, but because capital can no longer profitably realise what it has produced.The task of socialism is therefore not to fear abundance, but to engage in it, and distribute it in a more efficient manner based on the most efficient use values to improve quality of life and reproduce society.Sadly most "Communists" and "Socialists" out there are retarded Luddites.
>>543753427>>whats wrong with waste and pollutionOH WOW. >pollutionDo I need to debunk this? Like really>Reee it is pollution even if these are apples who the animals will eat before we can get to them STOP POLLUTION!>REEEE!Do you understand what a walking parody you are? >waste OK lets go>WE need to use magic to make every human perfect and unable to make mistakes!Is this your argument? >and toxic rivers LOL.>As a communist I must define apples as toxic rivers. Despite the fact that the animals will eat them all. They are toxic do you not understand?Like fucken LOL!
>>543751728Picrel.
>>543751728>And from my own experience lots of products get destroyed because of accidents or the machine fucking up (and by lots I mean 1%). Should overproduction not be a good thing?I don't think the relatively small margin for error that you're talking about is anywhere close to what's being discussed in that video.
>>543753427You're just an ordinary 20.
>>543753785>We build millions of apartments, factories pour forth cars, warehouses fill with commodities.OK. And?And into the parody corner you go>The capitalist does not ask Does society need this?Translation:>under communism you will not have a home because you do not need that™LOL!>And still most of us can't afford homes, can't afford to fill those same cars, struggle with getting basic needs to live.Now your childish rhetoric is simply silly. It is a function of reality that you need to have overproduction and it is irrelevant if you place it at the hands of the evil capitalist or a USSR Combine.You have problems understanding how reality works. >Muh homesCool slogan however how exactly do you imagine your fantasy land communism?We do not build any new homes because there will be a time they will be empty????? Like try to answer that!?>need of it, but because the Millennial, the Zoomer has no money with which to claim it.Again retarded rhetoric of a child. And what if I show you that the same homes are getting sold and get owners in less then 2 years? What then?>muh zoomer muh MillennialOK cool it with your generational warfare. >muh zoomer muh MillennialWhat if I show you Zoomer and/or Millennial who guy these newly build homes? Where the fuck are you getting your data from? >but because capital can no longer profitably realise what it has produced.????? How did you arrive at that??? Literally out of nowhere! >The task of socialism is therefore not to fear abundance, but to engage in it, and distribute it in a more efficient manner based on the most efficient use values to improve quality of life and reproduce society.Literally moments ago you where lamenting that homes are being build because they are empty for 15 minutes after being build! WTF!
>>543753945>to what's being discussed in that video.?????????????????????Did you even watch it? It is workers fucking up with forklifts etc not some debate only iPhone recording compilation! I work so I know how often in the factory the machines fuck up and ~1% of it gets trashed because the meat packing machine got fucked and now the meat is squished into the boxes. And the operator runs to stop the machine and fix that. Or someone drops meat on the floor. And this is no>REE WAST! Muh starving Africa!Because all of that gets collected and thrown into the CAT3(Not for human consumption) box and they sell it to be processed as cat food or whatever. >I don't think the relatively small margin for error This started as a question what communists actually mean if they say that and then comrade clown show did come to show himself Have a look: >>543753785 and >>543754352
>>543753894However supply and demand are literally fake bullshit that never worked in reality.
>>543752389Prisons are a jewish scheme to keep private contractors rich and worthless niggers alive
Why do people keep seething about communism when all communist movements are quite dead. Technocracy, central banking, etc are way worse today, as their control is backed by 'scientific consensus'
>>543755126Serious question is your alternative something like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBU-Bdnl-ak
>>543755246>Why See: >>543753534Leftypol exists and I was simply interested in what they think.
>>543754840>However supply and demand are literally fake bullshit that never worked in realityLmao. This picrel is the best proof that it works.
>>543755246Capitalists need a forever boogeyman in order to keep the plebeians on the plantation>we'll rape your wallet, but commies would rape you even harder!
>>543755654LOL.You realize the picture is made up.>I will not defend supply and demand.Can you even defend it?
>>543753534Leftypol is funny because you'd assume that the actual left-wing counterpart of /pol/ would be occupied mainly by Stalinists and NazBols, but then you go there and it's just Trots, libleft bluesky rejects and anarchist pedophiles like this.
>>543751728Overpruduction in itself is fine. Planned obsolencence is a problem, many useless low quality goods being produced is a problem too.
>>543753181He answered the question. The answer is no true Scotsman and gaslighting XD
>>543755876This world is far closer to communism than capitalism.
>>543751728the USSR was all about peak efficiency, factories produced high quality products because they'd allocate a portion of time and resources to producing things aimed at other industries, overproduction was a good thing
>>5437560431) are you a communist?2)>Overpruduction in itself is fine.OK.>Planned obsolencence is a problemI agree however Planned obsolencence was already replaced by subscriptions and you either pay up or it will not turn itself on.
>>543756162Are you a schizo?>He Who is he? And where? You are talking to youself schizo!
>>543756265>USSRLots of communists go>The USSR is fake communismOr somethign like that so not really an argument.>USSR I was more interested in the theory of WTF did Marx mean by this or communists today!
I do understand communism.Communists are materialists so when they say value they mean M->C->M' which you might know as labour added value. They do not accept that anything has a market value. You may or may not be a materialist but it's important to understand at least what they mean. For this reason communists don't tend to use the term profit, because profit is surplus market value. They say surplus value, which is material abundance.So overproduction is important to communists because it is the mathematical limit on abundance, where production is no longer producing value. How many shoes can you make before they are too many shoes, they are useless as shoes, people start burning them or using them for stupid things. It's part of their production modelling. Their version of supply and demand.And THAT is important because the share of value returned to the worker is based on the value of what they produce. Capitalists have shares in a company and get a share of the financial revenue, communists get a share of what they produce so it's a serious consideration whether making 8 million shoes is a valuable contribution or a waste of rubber
>>543756347He gaslit you with a no true Scotsman and posted a link to an unrelated wall of text. Is that answer not good enough for you? You just can't comprehend his intellectual rigour XD
>>543756423>Lots of communists gothose are just retarded nigger faggots on the internet, everything these days is about joining a group for comfort, in actuality far detached from the real ideology itself
>>543751728Overproduction is about as emblematic a phenomenon as you can get for the failure of capitalism. The central value proposition of capitalist economics is the efficient allocation of scarce resources. Yes, we might get dramatic inequality. Yes, many more people will suffer than might otherwise suffer. But for all of these tradeoffs, the capitalist tells us, we will get unbridled efficiency translating into greater growth per abstract unit of resources consumed. Overproduction, whether of elites, of widgets, of startups, or of iPhone apps, basically invalidates this core claim. All of what we give up is supposed to be paid-for in efficiency. It's not a great deal to begin with, granted, but capitalism can't even deliver that these days. It just delivers an extraction economy for a group of fortunate first-movers and heirs. The rest of us get both inefficiency AND misery.
>>543755911>You realize the picture is made upLmao. For sure.
>>543756550Amazing you literally communicated nothing of meaning!
>>543756043The Soviet Union was one of the worst run industries in history. They had shortages of just about everything, despite covering a quarter of the entire planet's landmass. Not only did their factories consume gluttonous amounts of energy and cause unthinkable ecological catastrophes with pollution. They also overproduced grotesque heavy industrial parts that no one could use. Because factories were administered via "weight" of output, they produced heavy things. For example: factories would produce absurd amounts of screws that were too big to use. Simply because big screws weigh more. The rest of the economy was so desperate for smaller screws that they would buy the large screws and cut them down to a smaller size - throwing away and wasting the metal they cut off. This thrown away metal was then counted in soviet GDP xDDD
>>543757101>Lmao have ore pictures!>LMFAO I don't understand how wars work!You are to crazy to defend or understand supply and demand I see.
>>543751728Overproduction means less starvation. Communists want to starve
>>543757161If there's a part you don't understand, feel free to ask questions.
>>543757287You babbled nonsense slogans nothing more.
>>543757167>Not only did their factories consume gluttonous amounts of energy and cause unthinkable ecological catastrophes with pollution.this argument is just nigger tier, the world has only just now started to find more environmentally friendly methods; no shit a factory from the 1950s running on coal would be bad for the environment
>>543757352When you were learning math in school, was it difficult to see more than arcane scribbles on a whiteboard?
>>543757496You need to face the reality that you are not some genius you are actually schizophrenic.
>>543757701I bet it just kind of looked like scrawls or doodles. Some kind of mysterious ritual which you always knew was actually just nonsense. If YOU don't understand something, that means it's nonsense, right? No one on earth could possibly make sense of something you couldn't because... well, that just ain't right!
>>543757797>I am so smart and a genius>If people do not understand me they are stupidFun fact all schizos think this of themselves! >The earth is a time cube!>You are educated stupid! Classic.
>>543757890To be clear, no one is accusing you of being educated kek
>>543757936Answer thisDo you understand time cube?I like to see your answer.
>>543751728> What do communists have against overproduction?They are reading and mindlessly parroting 100 year old garbage from their basic theory, like this from "The Principles of Communism" by Friedrich Engels:> Big industry created in the steam engine, and other machines, the means of endlessly expanding industrial production, speeding it up, and cutting its costs. With production thus facilitated, the free competition, which is necessarily bound up with big industry, assumed the most extreme forms; a multitude of capitalists invaded industry, and, in a short while, more was produced than was needed.As a consequence, finished commodities could not be sold, and a so-called commercial crisis broke out. Factories had to be closed, their owners went bankrupt, and the workers were without bread. Deepest misery reigned everywhere.That shit no longer applies, because people are not retarded and don't like to lose money and governments don't like economic and social crisis, so they learned to regulate production better.
>>543751728They believed that under capitlalism, too many useful goods makes too many useless men, and that producing too much will lead to unemployment becsuse the demand for labor will wither awayIt’s flawed understanding of economics but that’s what they believed
>>543758392Learn to write
>>543758392>by Friedrich Engels:I know. However did what he says ever make sense?> the means of endlessly expanding industrial production,WTF does this even mean? This clearly is false since machines literally have a max output they can not go over! >speeding it up, and cutting its costsThis is clearly false if he means>endlessly speeding it up, and endlessly cutting its costs> free competition, which is necessarily bound up with big industry,?????? Was competition ever bound up with big industry ???? From what I remember they could not stop themselves from turning into a monopoly/cartel fast enough!>, and, in a short while, more was produced than was needed.Was this ever a real problem? At best some guys end up with to much product.> so-called commercial crisis broke out. Factories had to be closed, their owners went bankrupt, and the workers were without bread. Deepest misery reigned everywhere.Was this ever true? At best he is describing some bubble. At worse he is making shit up.>That shit no longer applies,Did it ever? I remember a different quote where is sounded like you can endlessly increase production and make it more cheep. >because people are not retarded and don't like to lose money I know, was it ever true? Or was this made up/schizo bullshit that he tried to push to explain something in his day?
>>543758704>, too many useful goods makes too many useless menThis sounds like a /pol/ slogan spoken by someone who is drunk.>but that’s what they believedSorry I can not pares this WTF do they actually want(this can be impossible to answer because this sounds like schizo shit)?Do they want to limit production so for example everyone needs to say how many tooth brushes or roles of toilet paper they use in 1 year and only that number is made? Or the economy gets angry and we have a crisis????We did have comrade clown here have meltdown over >Capitalism bad>Because after houses are build no one lives in them 3 seconds after construction is finished.Or something like that.
>>543759853No, they believe that is a flood model because it takes something that is good, an abundance of resources, and makes that into a social ill, unemployment. Their solution is to bring about communism aware an abundance of goods means prosperity for everybody.Again, I’m not a communist, this is just their position. I can totally see how somebody in the great depression would fall for it, lots of people to this day believe the great depression was caused by overproduction, they simply believe that the solution was Keynesianism, not communism
>>543760113>Again, I’m not a communistI know can you walk me what they want.It is OK if their reasoning makes no sense whatsoever.>No, they believe that is a flood modelOK so what is their solution. I like to know.>an abundance of resources, and makes that into a social ill,How?Like what is their solution one way I see is liek I stated reducing the overproduction of food and everything since today we know that ~1% of them will get destroyed in transport etc so we do extra.However that sounds fantastically retarded and a way to fuck yourself over.>Their solution is to bring about communismI remember them debating one another what to do about overproduction on leftypol or something so clearly they see overproduction (whatever that is) as a great evil to be stopped.
>>543757167And yet it somehow managed to become the world's second largest industrial superpower in just a few decades. This is pure cold ewr era propaganda slop. It's nonsensical if you think about it for more than a few seconds. If the USSR was an unproductive shithole undermined by a inherently faulty economic ideology, then why did the cold war even happen in the first place? Why did the West need to spend all of that time, money and effort desperately trying to sabotage it and wage proxy wars against it if it was just an ineffectual paper tiger? During the cold war the USSR was the "red menace", it was an existential threat to humanity if the propaganda was to be believed. Now we're expected to believe it was just a big limp dick that would have collapsed under it's own weight if it wasn't tnder constant attack by the capitalist world, so why did they bother? To "liberate" the poor oppressed Soviet citizens from guaranteed jobs and housing? To introduce them to the wonders of prostitution, gambling and usury?
>>543760332I used voice-text because my phone was lagging so apologies about the incoherent words, that was when it misheard me.Their theory of overproduction actually does make sense from Keynesian point of view. In fact, the people on this board that believed that immigration lowers wages, that believe AI will take jobs, and that outsourcing is bad for workers. That is literally the exact same logic. It’s the belief that a worker is only paid to the extent that they are useful, and when productivity can be increased without the worker becoming any better, it will just result in a lower wage, because the workers is not as useful anymore.Because of this, they believe in capitalism, as we produce more and more, workers will be paid less than less. Their solution is communism, seize the means of production and redistribute it among the working class.
>>543760409Basically this. Not only are people from the old USSR telling you that nothing like this was happening in the 80s you nailed it with the analogy. If the USSR was about to claps then why did the US fight it? Why did the US shit itself that the USSR was the first nation in space? PS: And by collapse you mean the CIA pushing pro USA leaders into the USSR and then ding a overthrow of the Russian government!
So no explanation I see.
>>543751728Communists don't understand and are surprisingly uninterested in the actual production of material life. They just want to yap.Any concern about their views on production is waved way effectively by saying: "We can afford to be poorer".
>>543760409Very simple answer: spoliation. North Korea is a dysfunctional state which struggles to even grow food. Simultaneously, North Korea has sufficient spoliation capacity to threaten the entire world with dirty bombs and nuclear weapons. It isn't hard to imagine a dysfunctional state of 100x the size wielding spoliation capacity to destroy the entire world multiple times over... while simultaneously lacking the capacity to feed itself without western grain shipments.
>>543761308So not only wasn't it real communism - it also wasn't a real collapse XD
>>543751728Communists have nothing against over production.If you actually read something; Overproduction is a result of capitalist economics in which prices become so high that no one can actually purchase anything and thus economically you end up in a situation where you have way, way, to much sitting on shelfs, food rotting away, while no one can buy anything because prices have inflated to the moon. That is over production.
>>543763782>Communists have nothing against over production.Yet leftypol says otherwize.>Communists have nothing against over production.Yes!>have way, way, to much sitting on shelfs, food rotting away, while no one can buy anything because prices have inflated to the moon. That is over production.And this must be a good thing for you or you self contradict!
>>543757377So you're claiming that all 1950s factories were the same? I won't even respond to this drek
>>543763867>LeftypolWho cares about those fucking reddit reject niggers>Yes!You what m8? Are you having a stroke?> And this must be a good thing for you or you self contradict!> And this must be a good thing for you or you self contradict!>And this must be a good thing for you or you self contradict!Nigger, this is barely even english.I fail to see how food rotting on shelfs is a good thing because some Jewish fatrat capitalist doesn't get his gibs.
>>543763706>it also wasn't a real collapse XDWas your country not full of people bought off by CIA who made them riot? Don't you pretend like Poland destroyed communism and the USSR or something? And then admit you where getting le help from CIA? >it also wasn't a real collapse XDUmm Wikipedia says this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_attempt
>>543763873>1950s factoriesEnvironmentalism is literally a made up capitalist lie. Better live like a pleb and torture yourself with segregating your trash or global warming will get you!
>>543753023Read Wage Labor and Capital then Value Price and Profit. >>543751728Tldr; overproduction caused economic crises as goods become so cheap they are unprofitable to produce anymore so capitalists artificially restrict the market to raise the price again which causes economic collapses because the people who make them aren’t paid enough to buy them and they’re the primary consumers. We have more than enough food for everyone on earth and more than enough housing for everyone to not be homeless but the need to make profit off of both means homelessness and starvation still exist directly because of capitalism. It’s also why Mathusianism is such a reactionary ideology as it attributes all these ailments to going past a population equilibrium rather than the direct consequence of capitalism and crises of overproduction. To fully understand this though you will have to read through Political Economy though. I recommend the 1955 version up until construction of socialism at which point you have to consult the 1953 draft which was kept hidden for decades by the revisionists who took over the USSR after Stalin’s assassination which you can find a link to here: https://www.directdemocracy4u.uk/dd4en-resources/socialist_economy/Political_Economy_Textbook_SPHPL_1953_Russian_E_Book.pdf
>>543757258What is there to understand, you ape? Just look at the historical economic data from the Soviet era and modern videos from Russia. Both are straight-up garbage, without any manipulation.
>>543751728They're talking about a specific type of market failure where there are plenty of goods, but nobody can afford them.
