The art of caricature is exaggerating existing features to make them look funny, and every racial caricature in those classic cartoons looked immensely appealing in terms of cartooning principles. Black people have dark skin and big red lips, Asian people have yellowish skin and slanted eyes (not sure where the glasses and buckteeth come from though), what’s wrong with exaggerating those features the way we’d exaggerate any other features? The only reason people hate that is because it was used in an immoral context historically, but if shit like that didn’t happen, would caricatures like this still be seen as wrong? You gotta keep in mind not all caricatures are made to be derogatory, sometimes they’re flattering. Take Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarfs for example, this cartoon wasn’t made to be racist, it was made to represent black culture like jazz.My opinion: racism has tainted peoples view on art, racial caricatures should ideally be normalized.
No, it's just a stupid cartoon gag.Get over it you fucking pussies.
You wanna caricaturize blacks? Do it. You wanna caricaturize whites? Do it. I don't care, just make it entertaining. The problem is caricaturizing non-white races is not okay but being derisive and derogatory toward whites is normalized. You could absolutely clracially caricaturize a white person and no one would care, but doing so with any other race would have you trending everywhere with both real and fake outrage.
>>543753581racially*Excuse the ministroke.
>>543753579>(not sure where the glasses and buckteeth come from though)Hirohito
>>543753581Maybe white people shouldn’t have done so much racism
>>543753584Cope
She was probably the least offensive out of that whole Censored Eleven era of cartoons.
>>543753579People in Japan didn’t see it as morally wrong, in tons of 60s-80s anime and still to this day you’d see tons of black characters drawn with donut lips even though the animators don’t hate blacks. It’s mainly because many anime (before post-2010 when a lot of them started to look homogenous) took influence from western cartoons, they liked golden age ones especially.
>>543753583It’s funny wearing glasses is considered ugly by modern Japanese standards. Wonder if Hirohito is the reason why, kinda like how toothbrush mustaches went out of style due to Hitler.
>>543753579I think it is, but I'm against censoring old depictions of them. I think it's better to present them with historical context.
>>543753581>I don't care, just make it entertaining.This guy gets it.
>>543753581This seems fair
>>543753579>Asian people have yellowish skinThey don't. I never understood where that stereotype came from
>>155716864>>543753581It's frightening how much I agree with both of you.
>>543753589Drawn Together was ahead of its timehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AdilLfJIqmQ
>>155716864Maybe white people should accept they did racism instead of constantly crying how much history hurts their feelings
>>543753594It's less that they were ahead of their time on this and more that Disney has been doing this shit for the last 30 years.Now, what they were ahead of their time on was the Mickey Mouse Darth Vader analogue.
>>543753579Racial caricatures are funny and Internet memes about them are very popular. Most people like them and even those who larp as liberals crack a racist joke from time to time. It's actually more immoral to ban racial caricatures because it would mean denying humans a great source of fun and entertainment.
>>543753579I think caricatures are fun but they can be even more fun if you study real people on an individual level. Censorship is evil in this regard because these people are saying “my feelings and identity are more important than honest art” so fuck that. That being said, we live in the information age and should know better even if drawing a perfect image of someone of another race could be considered a hate crime in any other context.
>>543753579I think Whoopie Goldberg put it best. It's not correct, but it's better to remember they existed then pretend we never did these in the first place.And they do still have some place in artistic integrity as the some of the Censored 11 were still made by Looney Tunes at their peak. Hell Coal Black is a classic Clampet war-time production. But they are a product of the time still. Sure some are flattering, but again, dated for what they are, and seen as poor taste by today's standards.
Who cares about "muy racism"? What’s funny about golden age cartoons is their absurdity and exaggeration of everything, you have to be a humorless faggot to not find Tex Avery’s racist jokes funny.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zZVou0Nnvkw&t=1m17s
>>543753599>Whoopie GoldbergNo
>>543753595You lost
>>543753586And voiced by an actual black woman too.
>>543753601So?
>>543753579I've literally never seen a black person with red lips
>>543753601Well I'm going off what she said in the Tom and Jerry dvds about it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_oEOdIBOpUShe sums up my feelings well.
Would you like being on the receiving end?
>>543753580unholy checked & fpbpSatan-sama telling the truth itt
>>543753607Whatever
>>543753600>>543753579I think one reason people might look down on ethnic jokes is because of the intent behind them. When some people see a racial caricature, they may assume that the artist hates the race they are making fun of. They conclude that the joke comes from hatred and therefore cannot be funny. However, that reasoning is flawed. We don't know Tex Avery personally, so we can't say for certain whether he actually disliked the people or groups he makes fun of. Ultimately, I don't think his personal feelings are what determine whether the short is funny or not. Even if Tex Avery had been racist, that wouldn't necessarily change the quality of his shorts. The humor can still be funny regardless of the author's personal beliefs or intentions. What matters is whether the joke itself works.
>>543753579Anyone else remembered when Floyd Norman defended Coal Black
>>543753606I mean I think Whoopie Goldberg is one of the most liberal plants to ever disgrace the entertainment industry and I don’t respect her opinions.
>>543753579Humans are tribalistic as shit, cracking jokes about others is in our nature.
>>543753605You’re right. I googled it and even most of their lips are brown. Some had it pink, some were wearing lipstick. Thing is though that the color of lips are supposed to match the color of the individual’s genitals and butthole.
>>543753607Would you like not having the ability to make fun of people?
>>543753579Outside of animation Al Jolson is an another good example, Despite doing blackface he was good friends with many black musicians like Louis Armstrong and Fats Waller and asked for equal pay for Cab Calloway when they both starred in The Singing Kid, He would be invited to Black only clubs too
>>543753614I see tons of black people in public with visibly red lips, mostly just the bottom lip and not the upper one though
>>543753612Your respect her opinion
What sucks is how racial caricatures association with racism hinders peoples ability to make appealing caricatures at times, like Obama is the least funny looking one in this pic.
>>543753579these would be good character designs if it weren't for their stereotypical bright pink lips, coal black is extremely cute
>>543753615What you want is the ability to make fun of other people and not have them make fun of you. Don't even try to deny it.
>>543753619Fixed.
>>543753621What you want is to police other people because you're insecure.
>>543753579Don't care for them, but they should be left untouched if they're ever re-released.>>543753587Also this, I'm not gonna fault people outside of the US who drew upon old cartoons for their characters, but now days, eh... maybe don't do the donut lips.
>>543753623If you don't want to be made fun of, don't make fun of other people. Golden rule, bitch. There's only one kind of person who has a problem with the golden rule.
>>543753625Nice seething
>>543753626I won this argument before it even began because I had your number from the very beginning. You're just a selfish little bully who doesn't want your victims to be able to fight back. You want to be free to mock whoever you want, and you want them to be unable to mock you. Say something, anything that proves me wrong or I'm considering the argument over.
>>543753579>Racial charactures are le badAfter twenty years of evil blonde "racist" white men, I don't give a fuck.
>>543753625You're the one who's pro-censorship here so you're the one who has to explain himself to the golden rule. Do you support censorship when it's *you* who's getting censored, yes or no?
>>543753627Fag
>>543753630dont even bother these niggas delude themselves until suicide
>>543753627>how dare you objectify and marginalize BIPOC bodies, chuddy shitlordWhy are you on this site instead of BlueSky or ResetEra?
>>543753632ResetEra bans leftists, they had so many issues with them going back to their days on NeoGAF that they made sure they're conservative as fuck.Same with FamiBoards, except on crack.
>>543753629>>543753630>>543753632If you want to make fun of people then you're free to make fun of people, just know that they're equally free to make fun of you in return. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
>>543753579
>>543753634Nice fanfic
>>543753638Again, I already knew that you're a selfish hypocrite from the start.
>>543753639Sure thing, sonny
>>543753636I'm pretty surprised Tex Avery regretted racist gags since Warner Bros stopped using them by the late 40s while MGM kept doing them in the 50s when that was basically considered dated
>>543753579The issue I have with racial caricatures is that they're too racially essentializing. There are a lot of genuinely cool 'racist' character designs (I love Mr PoPo for example) but in aggregate they just end up as a vector that people use to exploit and demean perceived outgroups.Black people have big lips, and drawing a character with big lips is fine for example, but the issue is when the exaggerated design 'motif' becomes iconic enough to symbolize the entire group, that group is now seen in mostly just those symbols. So continuing with the aforementioned example, black characters stop being designed as "heroic(and black)" or "comedic(and black) or "sinister(and black) but now are designed as big lips+coal black skin+jive talking. The tropes end up subsuming the underlying character as a shorthand in media representation and, by extension, the wider social consciousness. The effect turns race into a design trope itself which is lame imo. I don't think most people would have an issue if the poisoning effect on the wider ecosystem didn't happen.
>>543753607Yes, I do. I even use Willie's lines a lot IRL.>"That's the last time you'll slap your Willie around!">"EVERY SINGLE SCOTTISH PERSON DOES IT!">"Willie hears ya, Willie don't care.">"Now I won't have to pleasure a country-club wife to get my steak dinner."
>>543753624>don't do the donut lipsI'll have to disagree with yo on that. Donut lips are fine, your Chocolove image is a great example why, it'll only be an issue if it's colored bright red because the ones who love to bring up Minstrel Shows will attack it..
>>543753643Finally, one person in this thread who isn't a hypocrite.
>>543753607Sorry man but it's really only browns who are upset by this. I've never met an Italian who was offended by Super Mario.
>>543753645You are the hypocrite
>>543753646>>543753647All I'm saying is if you want to fire shots at people, you can't complain when they fire back. That you have a problem with such a basic concept says volumes more about you than it says about me. Anyway I'm calling this argument another win for me, so I'll see you in the next thread for another easy win.
>>543753617That’s what I saw too>>543753619I love how goofy these all are>Obama is the least funny looking one in this pic.Fuck him, he doesn’t deserve anything better. I genuinely believe racial tensions deteriorated after him despite the ironic main appeal of his presidency.https://youtu.be/VvB3h5E9vF8
>>543753648Go back, soifag
>>543753649LBJ should deserve even less then
>>543753651You are correct.
>>543753619Trump looks more like Boris Johnson here
>>543753624It depends on the artstyle, I think if it’s more simplified and cartoony it’s fine, it looks weird in more detailed and realistic styles
Wasn’t there a trend where young people were starting to relate to Nixon?
>>543753655That was Futurama, and that was just a excuse to sell more Charleston Chews.
>>543753597Kek
I don’t beleive in censoring the old cartoons, though I’m not opposed to those messages they’ve been putting before them I.e. this was made in a different time yada yadaThe big issue atleast with black depictions in cartoons is they weren’t based off black people but specifically minstrel shows, which were stereotyped caricatures of black people done in a cartoony way to dehumanize black people. Having a normal white guy dressed next to someone with makeup to look like Mr popo going “ooga booga massa I need BET” is racist, and the cartoons based themselves off these caricaturesSame thing when your buck tooth slant eyed Asian is based off caricatures drawn to paint Asian people as non-humans during war. When the stereotypical caricatures are based off those made specifically to “other” a group it has, whether intentional in your Mr. Popo or not, that historical baggage (I don’t care abt Mr popo cause it’s Japan basing off western golden age, just example)>inb4 moralfag Not moral fagging idgaf either way, but let’s not pretend these cartoons came out of nowhere and that their inspirations were good faith
>>543753658>(I don’t care abt Mr popo cause it’s Japan basing off western golden age, just example)He’s based on a buddhist deity
>>543753659Oh no ur def right. I retract thatPoint stands though
>>543753633>ResetEra bans leftist.Sure buddy and bears shit in the Vatican.
>>543753586I didn't even know she was supposed to be racist as a kid. My unconditioned brain just thought "fat old black lady with a cat."
>>543753661There were incidents in the past as to why they do that.
in short, no.Caricature is a part of art, and people should get over it.Making fun of each other is also part of human culture, and people should get over it.Yes, blackface is funny, and yes we should bring it back.Yes, they do need to be put in their place every now and again, and to be shown exactly how silly they look to us.
>155718610Glad you realize your a hypocrite bucko. That plays a little better in Bluesky though, I suggest you go back to where you come from.
>>155716864I don't think the lazy blacks manufactured white guilt. I think it was created by the jews and was given to lazy niggers.
>>543753579In a world where racism has no real consequences sure, but nothing exists within a bubble.
>>543753607I would not care. The problem imo is ppl take everything too far.
I personally and fine with racist humor from the golden age. I also understand why people dont want to publish or release them again. What I want is an option to buy these cartoons in a DVD box set, uncensored and digitally restored, for anyone who wants them. Place the whole "These cartoons were a product of their time" schpiel but let the people have the option.
>>543753666>given to lazy niggersAnd why would Jews give it away? Do you mean they copied the Jews?
>>543753667It doesn’t
>non-Black people weighing in on whether something is culterally insensitve to Black peopleNot a nigga in dis thread.Including meself.
>>543753672Nobody cares
Most blatant /pol/ bait I’ve seen in a while.
>>543753673No shit?Y'all are a bunch crackity ass crackas.
>>543753674can't disagree though can you?
>>543753607I don't give a shit.The world sucks, and everyone has a reason to hate the others. Get over it.
>>543753672I don't care if it's culturally insensitive.Making fun of foreigners is *my* culture.I'm European. We've been doing this since before we even knew black people existed.
>>543753600Honestly this, stereotypes are funny shit, if people can laugh at offensive jokes in shows like South Park, Family Guy, and Drawn Together than I don’t see why we can’t laugh at this.Making racial caricatures taboo only makes this shit funnier.
>>543753678Yeah, you were doing it to yourselves for the most part. That was the thing.Nowadays things are different.Can't expect to make friends if you're goin to be that way.
>>543753680Black people make fun of us all the time.I feel like they don't respect us, knowing they can walk all over us. Am I wrong?"white people" humor can be funny, but I feel like I want to do that too. What's so bad about it?
>>543753584It went both ways, but one side actually had their shit together while the other was a couple millennia behind culturally and economically.
>>543753619No one seems to remember the deathgroans Obama did when talking.>Mah Fellow Amricans... euhhrrrrr fouryearsago, we came here to Washington andeuhrrrrr attemped to, act on theehurrr WILL, of the Amrican people, anddeehurrr thRepublicans, didn't want that.
>>543753607A large part of my culture is about taking the piss out of anything and everything, including my own culture. Only thin-skinned subhumans with inferiority complexes get mad over caricatures.
>>543753654This is true. Often times what happens in those older works is that there is a certain design language for white people and when it comes to non whites they are drawn with a different design language. Just look at pic related. They're both ostensibly supposed to be of similar age but because Steamboat is black he has a vastly different design sensibility to the point where he looks like a different creature entirely.
>>543753580>Complains when the white guy isn't portrayed as the most heroic, dynamic, pussy slayer alive
>>543753648>All I'm saying is if you want to fire shots at people, you can't complain when they fire backWhat are they firing back with and who's complaining?
>>543753654They were removed from garter too lmao
>>543753587Its too bad that giant lips like this is racist since its a good design choice.
>>543753686Nice fanfic
>>543753689I’ll say. You can’t tell me this isn’t badass
>>543753688Should have made it so he cleans his mouth with a Napkin.
>>543753688Ngl, I prefer brown lips. They just look better. Although I sincerely wish they did half-and-half. Brown upper pink lower
>>543753587Uh Japan hates blacks and chinese
>>543753579censorship is morally wrongracial caricatures' value is tied to their accuracy. If you could somehow interview every one of the members of a given race, and take careful look at, for example, how many Japanese people wear glasses and have buck teeth, then you work that function out into a percentage, say it was.. about 8%, then that caricature is 8% accurate (I think it's actually a lot lower, that's a WEIRD one. that's like stereotyping blacks as having thin lips and straight hair)
>>543753694Then howcome those characters are usually really cool and good guys?naw I think they like em. they just think (correctly) that they have thicker lips than others.i'm surprised the earwax thing doesn't come up more, you'd think asians would be like 'haha you fucking goop-ears, you've got gunk in there instead of flakes like a normal person'except they have probably noticed that other mammals like dogs and cats all have earwax too, not flakes, so..
>>543753686Actually I complain when black characters are only portrayed as violent nigs
>>543753697Remember when he killed his boss? That was pretty funny.
>>543753658The characters in Coal Black were based on actual jazz performers that Clampett met irl not minstrel shows
>>543753580glad to have your seal of approval mega satan
>>543753697I think the japs see them as STRONG, not necessarily cool. Blacks are pretty much hated all around the world, and have done little to nothing to turn that attitude over.
>>543753579If anything, the outcry cheated me out of good waifus.
>>543753607>t.
>>543753579What did black people think of these cartoons when they first came out?
>>543753600Possibly the best short ever made
>>543753579Who cares? Things like eating animal meat or finding people sexually attractive is also immoral yet humans still do it because it's fun. We're naturally wired to be sociopathic
>>543753704Fuck you and fuck zombie Simpsons. Groening was always a liberal hack and golden age Simpsons had a lot of help from others.
>>543753705They were probably hyped about the representation but then the government told them to expect only the best from everything for nothing. Not just them, anyone too lazy to work.
>>155726509This is from a gay porn image set (from men.com if anyone asks) by the way.
>>543753702Japan has a huge Hip-Hop subculture, you get a point in that they aren't going out their way to show love to the collective, but on a individual level, that's another story. I'm speaking on American blacks, American pop culture is big over there, and guess who dominates that overall? Just as much as they worship whiteness, they also have a fixation on black culture too.
>>543753711It's not a huge as it is in thew US, but the popularity of this is Japan has it's niche.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWSgsbWiX_g
>>543753579The cartoon black people look better than the real ones so I give them a pass.
>>543753707>Things like eating animal meat or finding people sexually attractive is also immoral yet humans still do it because it's fun. We're naturally wired to be sociopathicWe've been eating meat for thousands of years, are wolves and bears evil when they eat meat? And it's immoral to not be asexual? The fuck?
>>543753685Wowzers, those lips are the size of a persons jaw. Imagine seeing that in real life, horrifying.
>>543753579Where does something like Song of the South fit where the cartoon animals speak in an exaggerated Southern dialect but are otherwise inoffensive.
>>543753707No, faggot
Half of you don’t even give a shit about censorship or whatever - you just want your bigotry validated and use “it’s just a joke bro” as the usual excuse to not face consequences for it.
>>543753718You are pathetic
>>543753579Anybody who wants to ban these cartoons just can't stand white joy
>>543753714How is sexuality not morally iffy? Try saying out loud to a woman that you like her big tits and you want to fuck her. She'd be creeped out
>>543753721Lol, fag
>>543753579>Chattanooga chew chewsThat's silly
>>543753669I don’t really see there being much or a market to restore and sell racist cartoons for the sake of making sure the handful people who want to own racist cartoons can get them
>>543753643Willie and minstrel black face characters are not in the same ballpark. It's in bad spirit to downplay those old cartoons like that
>>543753685When are they bringing him back to the Shazam books?
>>543753710hmm how do you know that?
>>543753723TRACK TWENTY-NINE
>>543753718I both care about censorship *and* want to make offensive jokes because they're funny.
>>543753725They are literally exactly the same>b-b-but institutional powerThe richest black Americans have more than the richest Scottish people. End of.
>>543753721Worked in college. You just gotta use it in the right context.
>>543753587Not just people in Japan but also European and South American comic creators don't see blackface as Morally wrong like as seen with the Pirate lookout from the Asterix books (in the image), the black sportspeople in Mortadelo y Filemón, the Tribesmen in Condorito and Titeuf's new girlfriend Ramatou.
>>543753721If we really wanted to get all philosophical about it morality is subjective. When we were cavemen we’d fuck animals and eat our own children.
>>543753579In this case, yes because these caricatures are based on blackface which is already a caricatures. So you got a caricatures of a caricatures
>>543753727My sister.
>>543753579They should be presented as they were in the context they existed in back thenI was never offended by the crows from Dumbo and thought they were the only characters besides Timothy who were remotely kind to the little guyt. black man
>>543753587>>543753732Meanwhile look how the soviet animated black people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9CKXz24pxwNotice the difference
>>543753691thats just a masksuguru was actually very handsome under his goofy mask
>>543753587Japanese people had no stigma to back their caricatures. The imagery is copied from western depictions of Africans and African Americans. A race that was widely unknown by the Japanese. Western Depictions were styled to be derogatory. Represent the differences in body shapes and present them as lesser than because of their differences. A caricature in these old cartoons isn't just a caricature of a single person but demeaning to an entire race. Shown by the way the characters speak and act. Japanese caricatures do the same thing of course but they ran out of things to say other than "They are bumbling and they have weird clothing." A lot of the more famous "racist characters" in anime have no character traits that relate to the demeaning minstrel shows of the west. Which is why you had characters like Mr. Black who despite his brown skin and pink lips was extremely competent. There's nothing wrong with racial stereotypes now because people have an ability to openly critique. When a race was subjugated and paid TO propagate those negative stereotypes without any real way to speak back, that's when it was a problem. We don't live in a world where the orientalist western view of another society is the only mainstream depiction.
>>543753737Abysmal, Jungle Jitters is light years better then this.
>>543753579It honestly doesn’t matter how you depict blacks in animation, if they don’t look exactly like the white or Asian characters but brown, someone’s going to cry racism. You might as well make them A. Wyatt Mann Bix Nood style caricatures and have some fun while you’re at it.
uh oh blue board Janny Melty
>high quality thread>missing flagsOh yeah this didn't come from /pol/ jannies let spam stay up with the only text being>.
>>543753579Racial caricatures are great, but AI-generated videos of modern public figures and world leaders in sexually degrading scenarios are even better.
>>543753587It's still not morally wrong.The depiction only becomes wrong when the character is unrelatable.Make the big nig lip gorilla a helpful friend with wisdom and intelligence and his aesthetic stops being a problem.The issue is that most writers and cartoonists are normies, thus retarded, and can't imagine a gorillanigger that's anything but a stereotypical chimp.
>>543753579What caricatures. All of these exist. Coal Black types are usually under 14, they blow up into mammies later unfortunately.
>>543754386many such cases. this shitty dismissive behaviour towards difficult subjects is exactly why i first came to /pol/ at all. clearly this is where the deeper conversation lives if it's banned from all the other boards and shoved here.
