>By 'patriotism' I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force upon other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.- George Orwell, 1945
>>543812261Both are cringe and gay.
I can understand why one would make this judgment in 1945 but that's rather arbitrary and reductive
>>543812261>By "nationalism" I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled "good" or "bad." But secondly — and this is much more important — I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognizing no other duty than that of advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved.>The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. For quite six years the English admirers of Hitler contrived not to learn of the existence of Dachau and Buchenwald. And those who are loudest in denouncing the German concentration camps are often quite unaware, or only very dimly aware, that there are also concentration camps in Russia. Huge events like the Ukraine famine of 1933, involving the deaths of millions of people, have actually escaped the attention of the majority of English russophiles.>Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side.>There is no crime, absolutely none, that cannot be condoned when 'our' side commits it.
>>543812399This
>chosen to sink his own individuality.And why would sinking one's individuality be a bad thing? Nigga can't filter water but larp with intent about his "uniqueness", as if he was capable of being alive if it wasnt for other people
patriotism and nationalism are obviously the same thing. the world is in denial about this
>>543812817patriotism isn't a life philosophyit's not even a political philosophynationalism tends to be both of those things >>543812759>retaining uniqueness bad>dying in meat grinder goodcool story, bro
>>543812261There’s no real difference between patriotism and nationalism.
>>543812945>you’re only allowed to care about your nation and collectivism when globohomo jews need you remoralized for sacrifice but not a moment before What is this shit
>>543813135The fuck are you talking about? Who the fuck are you quoting?
>>543812614I'm pretty sure you can maintain identification with a nation without pairing it with total amorality vis-a-vis its conflicts with other groups
>>543812945im not saying that you have to go die on the meatgrinder but that you should not care about your individuality. your were born from an act of cooperation(father cumming inside the pussy of mother) and are alive through cooperation(market). you can, of course, disregard all that shit, put yourself above everything, but dont come here looking for support because you wont have it, and from the people who do give you support also would give you a stab in the back of the neck were things to go dire
>>543812945>individuality>uniquenessLol. Lmao.
>>543813402No one's saying you can't "identify with your nation." There's a ton of people who identify with their nation that you yourself would not classify as "nationalists."
>>543813646Well according to his definition that's what "nationalism" is
>>543813601It is a legitimate headscratcher how much of /pol/ is composed of alienated isolated weirdos who are not meaningfully part of any collective, yet religiously cling to collectivist ideologies.
>>543812261All nationalism has done has gotten white people killed. Patriotism has led to two white superpowers (USA and USSR). Nationalism sucks and clearly patriotism is better. Orwell is right.
>>543813699To be fair, the nation is ultimately a spook
>>543812261Local patriotism
>>543813796>Orwell is right
>>543814351Grok is this real???
>>543814301Local Hhttps://youtu.be/uKGfSqcsaCc
>>543812261Orwell has turned the words upside down. Maybe intentionally. How Orwellian.Patriotism = boot licking. You are loyal for your *patria* which means a country and its ruler. Any despot of a multicultural mongrel empire can have patriots fangirling him and his dominion. A patriot cheers when the empire gets more bloated.Meanwhile Nationalism = you are loyal for your *nation* which means, you know, your own people and its way of life. The state is only a tool for the nation, according to Nationalism, and it would be horrible if it would start to include random mongrels and strangers into its own country.
>>543814614The nation is just as much an idea and an abstraction as the country is. Hitler was willing to kill tens of millions of flesh and blood Germans to further the glory of Deutschland the idea. He was also willing to completely rewrite their "way of life" according to his own whims. Nationalism is at best a farce.
>>543814761What the fuck has Hitler to do with the idea of Nationalism, which predates his birth?Without Nationalism, there would be no Finns or Finland, we would have been assimilated to death. About half of the European nations would have had the same fate, there would be no Irish, Slovaks, Poles, even Germany and Italy were created by Nationalism. Interesting that you call such a force a "farce".You like boot licking more? The whims of kings or oligarchs or technofeudalists or whatever else is a better way to base a country on than a nation? I guess that sounds like a great idea in your mongrelized muttbrain oozing with McDonalds grease.
>>543812261What etymology is this arbitrary distinction in definitions is based on? Sounds like pure copium coming from a glue huffing retard.
>>543812399They were both used with the same maning. Another retarded dichotomy where retards will debate for hours.
>>543815153>What does Hitler have to do anything, he said as he posted more Nazi pics
>>543815237Dodging my question implies that you lost the argument. On what foundation should a country be based on, if not a nation? I presume your answer will be very Jewish and Jew-friendly.
>>543815229Nowadays the Orwellians have created a new word, "Ethnonationalism". It is exactly that which was called just Nationalism for 150 years. What they call "Nationalism" now used to be called "Multi-Culturalism" just 10 years ago.>its_all_so_tiresome.jpg
>>543813730>religiously cling to collectivist ideologiesarent you religiously clinging to individualism? you didnt even bother to argue and you cant answer >>543814614 nor >>543815153 without appealing to "haha im smart you dumb". you thought this was your discord group chat where everyone agrees with you?
>>543815609the reason why they started putting "ethno-" is to go directly against the belief that Y can be X if it has the same beliefs that X do. I find it funny that immigrants and the eggs they lay dont care at all about this "everyone is equal" and decidedly form their own ethnic communities while calling white communities racist. africans are just like women in the sense that they dont believe in anything and just use words to get shit
>>543812261Both are dead. Killed by multicultural globalismracism is the way forward
George Orwell wasn't even his last name.Imagine if whenever people talked about Stephen King they called him Richard Bachman. It's bonkers.
>>543816106
>>543812261fascism is the way
>>543816426is this a book on fascism as a political ideology or fascism as a cosmovision?
>>543818289it's a jpg
