Why do Christians claim Jews only became rich and powerful after the French revolution? Anyone who knows anything about history knows this is not true.Jews began amassing and compounding wealth as soon as Christianity became dominant in Europe.>How did they do this?Christcuck kings gave jews a monopoly on usury. Jews were the ONLY people allowed to lend at interest. Chrigger kings would use goyim taxes to pay jewish interest.- England -Aaron of Lincoln (d. 1186) – Wealthy banker and financier throughout the Angevin Empire. He was the wealthiest man in 12th-century England, having more money than the king himself. He financed many wars, such as Strongbow’s invasion of Ireland.Benedict of York (d. 1189) – Another rich moneylender. He was close to King Richard I and attended his coronation. Debts to him were still being paid even a decade after his death.Licoricia of Winchester (d. 1277) – Rich Jewish woman who gave loans to the king.- France -Isaac the Jew (d. 836) – Became a wealthy merchant before being promoted to one of Charlemagne’s top diplomats. Amassed extreme wealth over his life.Abraham of Saragossa (d. 9th century) – He was born in Muslim-controlled Spain, but eventually moved and settled in the kingdom of the Franks. There he received (around 835) a privilegium from Louis the Pious, one of the three extant privileges granted to Jewish merchants by a Carolingian monarch. It became the standard for succeeding privileges, including the following aspects: court oaths and trial procedures, services and representation, right to trade, and imperial protection. According to this privilege, Abraham entrusted himself to the emperor in a manner similar to a royal vassal.1/6
>>544260475- Spain/Castile/Aragon -Abraham Senior (d. 1493) – His family were the largest tax farmers for the Crown of Castile. He personally knew the royal families of Castile and Aragon and died of old age at 81.Benveniste de Porta (d. 1268) – Important Jewish capitalist and financial official in Barcelona. He advanced enormous sums to King James I of Aragon, receiving rights to collect royal revenues in Barcelona, Girona, Lleida, the Balearic Islands, and elsewhere as security. At one point the king’s indebtedness to him was recorded as 199,483 sueldos.Judah de la Cavalleria (d. 1280s) – Described as “the most powerful Jew in the Aragonese administration.” He controlled the kingdom’s bailiffs and therefore had substantial authority over royal administration and finances.Joseph Ravaya (d. 1282) – In the 1260s he and his father Astrug lent large sums to King James I and farmed royal revenues. Joseph became treasurer to King Pedro III, had previously served as the infante’s banker, managed his property, and held extensive administrative authority over Aragon, Catalonia, and Valencia.2/6
>>544260475>>544260512Solomon ibn Zadok (d. 1274) – A prominent courtier of Alfonso X. He served as chief collector of the kingdom’s revenues, received large estates from the king around Seville, and maintained synagogues and poorhouses. After his death, his extensive property was confiscated and given to Seville Cathedral.Isaac ibn Zadok (d. 1280) – Solomon ibn Zadok’s son. He became chief farmer of the taxes of the kingdom of Castile under Alfonso X, placing him directly within the royal financial administration.Todros ben Judah Halevi Abulafia (d. c. 1295–1300) – A financier and court official under Alfonso X and Sancho IV. He regained his position at court after his imprisonment and later headed a group of Jewish financiers who received important monopolies.Samuel ben Meir ha-Levi Abulafia (d. 1360) – He was treasurer to Pedro I of Castile and is explicitly described in the Encyclopaedia Judaica material as the richest Jew of his time. He also founded the famous El Transito synagogue in Toledo.- Portugal -Moses Navarro of Santarem (d. 1370) - He was the personal physician to King Pedro I and his chief tax collector, served for nearly 30 years as chief rabbi of Portugal. His son, JUDAH, inherited the posts of personal physician and chief tax collector under Pedro I and continued in the latter capacity under John I; he presented the Portuguese king with the bull decreed on July 2, 1389, by Pope Boniface IX (based on a bull of Pope Clement VI), forbidding Christians to harm the Jews, desecrate their cemeteries, or attempt to baptize them by force.3/6
>>544260475>>544260512>>544260537- Germany/Austria/HRE -Diego Pereira d’Aguilar (d. 1759) – Portuguese-born Jewish businessman who held the tobacco monopoly in Austria and had the power to establish factories and regulate prices. He was even made a royal Baron.Mordecai Meisel (d. 1601) – Bohemian Jewish businessman who financed the Austrian imperial house. Built a Jewish town hall and multiple synagogues, one of which was embroidered with gold and silver and contained curtains of pearls.Vivelin of Strasbourg (d. ?) – Financier in the 14th century, one of the richest persons within the Holy Roman Empire at that time. He lived in Strasbourg and primarily dealt with the Archbishop of Trier, Baldwin of Luxembourg, and also with the King of England, Edward III, as he led a consortium that lent 140,000 florins to Edward III on the eve of the Hundred Years’ War.David Steuss (d. 1387/1388) – Head of a major family of Jewish bankers. He served Duke Albert II and Archdukes Rudolf IV and Albert III, financing military campaigns and the construction of St. Stephen’s Cathedral. He accumulated considerable wealth and was reportedly the wealthiest Jew in Vienna in his time.4/6
>>544260475>>544260512>>544260537>>544260567Samuel of Derenburg (d. after 1382) – Court banker to the archbishops of Magdeburg. He and his brothers handled major financial transactions involving the archbishop, princes, nobles, and the city of Brunswick. He received special privileges for himself and his children because of his exceptional position.- Poland -Lewko of Krakow (d. 1395) – The wealthiest Jew of Krakow (and Poland) in his time; he acted as court banker of the kings of Poland. The son of a wealthy merchant and real estate owner in Krakow, Lewko is mentioned in documents from the early 1360s as the owner of houses and building plots in the city. He amassed great wealth in dealing with these properties and began lending money to feudal lords. King Casimir III the Great, who put much confidence in him, entrusted him with the administration of the royal salt mines of Bochnia and Wieliczka and the mint of Krakow in 1368.Mosheh Fiszel (d. before 1489) – A prominent Kraków financier and court entrepreneur. He served as a financier to the Polish royal court, and sources describe him as one of the prominent Jewish entrepreneurs involved in court finance during the late 15th century. His widow Raḥel continued the family’s financial activities after his death.5/6
Don't care, didn't read. This is now a Moonman thread. Post Moonmen.
>>544260475And whenever Christian aristocrats in Medieval Europe wanted to cancel their debts, they'd invent lies about "well-poisoning" and "child sacrifice" to stir up the locals to expel the Jews (who were the holders of all their debts). This is where most modern antisemitic tropes come from, but OP *conveniently* neglects to mention that part.
>>544260475>>544260512>>544260537>>544260567>>544260609- Denmark -Albert Dionis (d. ?) – Owned a successful trade business in Hamburg before moving to Denmark. He was given the privilege of running the mint of Glückstadt in 1619 by King Christian IV. After consulting with Dionis in 1622, King Christian IV invited “Portuguese” Jews from Amsterdam and Hamburg to settle in Glückstadt. To attract enterprising merchants with disposable capital, a large number of trading privileges, as well as freedom of religion were offered. The privileges given to these Jews were broadened on several occasions until they obtained, among others, the right to trade freely in Denmark. They provided luxury goods to the Danish court and arranged large loans for the Danish kings.- Italy -Anselmo De Banco (d. 1532) – Head of the Jewish community in Venice and owner of several loan banks in the Venetian territories. His brother (Hayyim) was also a wealthy banker and philanthropist. The family were proprietors of one of the seven Venetian synagogues, known as the Scuola Meshulamim.6/6
>>544260475real Christians won't mutilate penises and eats bacon
Note the point in time your examples begin from.Jews were on their way to oblivion before being revitalized during their golden age under muslim Spain at the end of the 8th century. They used muslim Spain as a FOB to subvert Europe and, ironically, islam itself, which is why the quran and hadiths are as talmudic as they are.
>>544260626The expulsions were to protect the jews from the angry peasants. Kings would still take loans from jews even during expulsions. Fucking idiot
>>544260715No, they were explicitly to cancel the debts. How do you take further money from a people who no longer exist around you? How do you pay debts to those who have been expelled? Moron.
>>544260710>Note the point in time your examples begin from.Have you never heard of the dark ages? There were certainly rich jews in Europe before then, I just don’t have enough surviving information due to the low amount of surviving written records from roughly 400AD to 900AD.Blaming this on muslims is hilarious, KEK
>>544260829So, you have no evidence to back that claim.My claim however is well backed up by both non-jewish and jewish sources, probably islamic sources as well but who the hell speaks arabic, and is why they call islam is the broom of the jews to this day.
>>544260771>How do you take further money from a people who no longer exist around you?Are you implying it’s impossible to take loans from people who live in other countries? Are you retarded?Also, one example I used proves my point, meaning you clearly didn’t read the entire post.> Vivelin of Strasbourg (d. ?) – Financier in the 14th century, one of the richest persons within the Holy Roman Empire at that time. He lived in Strasbourg and primarily dealt with the Archbishop of Trier, Baldwin of Luxembourg, and also with the King of England, Edward III, as he led a consortium that lent over 140,000 florins to Edward III on the eve of the Hundred Years’ War.See? An English king took a loan from a jew living in mainland Europe during the period of jewish expulsion in England.
>>544260996Back up what claim? That the dark ages existed? Are you being serious right now?Again, you clearly didn’t read the entire post. Most of those jews listen therein had no relation to Muslim empires
>>544261018They expelled the Jews to cancel the debts because an exiled population is unable to collect them. Your view is complete historical revisionism and you're too blinded by antisemitism to even grasp how stupid it is.
>>544261122That the jews were dying out and only got a second wind due to joining at the hip with islam.Muhammed had two jewish wives, one of them, "the mother of the faithful", being the daughter of a prominent jewish tribal leader.At the same time as he made friends with said jewish tribes, he began his caravan raiding career.
>>544261214>denies the actual historical example I gave>says I am revising historyLmao even>>544261268Most of the Jews I listed had no relation to Muslim empires, retard.Like I said, you didn’t read all 6 posts. Read them in their entirety if you want me to continue responding
>>544261445Your example isn't a counterargument to my point.
>>544261445My argument pertains mostly prior to your examples, goofus.Of course their relation to the muslim empires would dwindle as the reconquista progressively gained ground.
>>544261563It is though. Lmao even. You’re still unable to comprehend that kings can and did take loans from those living outside their borders
>>544261620Have you read all 6 posts in their entirety yet? Is it the Muslim’s fault the Christian kings put so many jews in high positions of power?
>>544261623Doesn't mean they didn't expel Jews to cancel their debts because an expelled population can't collect on them. Again, it's not a counterargument to my point. Try actually reading the posts you're replying to.
>>544261676They certainly laid the groundwork.Look at the places most of them even after the 1000s come from.Areas of Spain previously belonging to islam, and thus teeming with jewish golden age jews.
>>544261693You literally said:>How do you take further money from a people who no longer exist around you?And no. The expulsions were to protect jews from angry peasants. Peasants still had some Aryan vigor while the nobility was kiked.>>544261756No they didn’t. Charlemagne laid the groundwork. Charlemagne is the reason Ashkenazis even exist today.
>>544261756>focuses only on IberiaWhat about the examples in places like England, Poland and the HRE?
>>544261869Do you think the jews just materialized into the rest of Europe like mushrooms in the rain?Where the hell do you think they came from?Medieval migrant dinghies?The only one case where I wouldn't bet on muslim Spain ultimately being the origin is Poland.
>>544261996>it’s the Muslims fault Christian kings around europe gave jews immense power and privilegesLol
>>544262209Nice counter argument.Since you've done such a good job researching medieval Europe, how about you research the issue of jews and muslim Spain and prove me wrong about them laying the groundwork for what followed.Oh wait, a lot of your presented jews already point to the same conclusion.
>>544262353>prove me wrongYou’ve presented zero evidence, my nigga. The burden of proof lies with you
>>544262353Also, I don’t deny Muslims treated the jews well. Muslim gave jews the same power to charge interest. Jews became rich in Muslim countries just like they did in Christian ones.I’m simply saying you can’t blame Muslims for the jew’s power in Europe, as they had little to do with it.
>>544262547As I said, many of the points you yourself listed are evidence for the part of my argument that the problem gestated in muslim Spain and burst like a tumor during the reconquista.The burden of proof about early islam and jews being joined by the hip is on me, but I've already stated my evidence for those:>>544260710>>544261268Namely, Muhammed's documented dealings with jewish tribes, tribal alliances through marriage, talmudic influence on the quran.
>>544262787Christian kings could have easily chose goyim for those high positions. Christian kings could have stopped taking loans from jews. Yet they didn’t. You can’t blame Muslims for this. Even you admitted that Muslims had nothing to do with jewish power in Poland, idk why you can’t admit the same thing for the rest of Europe. I wish I were fluent in more languages so I could find more sources of jewish power in eastern Europe.
>>544263051>have easily chose goyim*chosen
>>544263051My argument is that if the jews hadn't had the chance to leech off from early islam to remain relevant, because again, they were dying out; no temple, no means of practicing their faith, no proper foothold anywhere before islam. Furthermore, if islam hadn't risen to such prominence that the jews had the chance to amass wealth on the very European ground the muslims conquered, most if not all of the jewish presence in Europe could've been avoided.That's not to say the Christian kings didn't make a huge mistake of then falling into the temptation of utilizing that jewish wealth and thus becoming dependent. But all the same, those same Christian kings drove islam out of Europe.But I definitely would not come to the conclusion of simply "Christianity bad". You can keep thinking that if you wish.
>>544260475Bump
Because it shields them from having to face the fact that their jewish cult is completely kiked and they are slaves of the jewThis way they can pretend jew worship is somehow against jews which is obviously ridiculous to anyone who is no in their jewish cult but it allows them to cope, this is also why they react with such an aggressive denial when you point it out, it goes directly against their very identity
>>544263359You misunderstand my intention. I hate all Abrahamic religions, including Islam. Like I said previously, Muslims gave jews the exact same monopoly on charging interest. Muslims were not uniquely kind to jews. Please look at the picrel of the very first post in the OP.All abrahamic religions are kiked and anti-European.
>>544260475>>544260512>>544260537>>544260567I can feel the fire, rarg friend https://youtu.be/VGzOj5JTMnE
>>544263669Hate them or not, in this historical case your choices are either Christianity or Islam.Because let's say the muslim conquest hadn't been thwarted. The particular pagan societies would not have been any better off, and the ones cutting your druidic trees would have been the swarthy guys in turbans instead.
>>544263827False dichotomy. This doesn’t make me like christians. Pagans never gave jews the exclusive right to charge interest, only Abrahamics did
>>544263738hitler ridiculed other nazis who wanted a pagan revival
>>544263827>Choosing between two sandnigger religionsNo.
>>544264049We've reached the point of historical speculation so any argumentation about this is sort of meaningless.But let's say Rome had somehow remained pagan and Islam was knocking on the gates of the area around Spain as they did with the Christians. What makes you think they would not have similarly used the wealth from the purported allies of their enemies, the jews, to aid the efforts to drive them out if offered?Now, again, this is historical speculation with a lot of non-sequitors with regard to the parties at play, but I think the point is sound:Was there at any time in pagan Roman history where they tried exploiting the allies of their enemies to disastrous results. If yes, then I'd say there's a good chance they would've done the same as the Christian kings did.I don't know if it is the case, but it's maybe something you can look up next time you're studying pagan Rome history or something.
>>544260475history is fake, your version of history is french and british turkey jews depicting themselves as the european heroes, when in reality they are the barbarians and the traitors. all our real heroes are germans.
>>544264196Hitler was cool and all, but didn't win unfortunately, so dont really care
>>544264196Hitler was a pragmatist. He didn’t want to piss off 98% of Germany>>544264478What makes you think they would not have similarly used the wealth from the purported allies of their enemies, the jews, to aid the efforts to drive them out if offered?I don’t believe Jews would be able to maintain their wealth without the exclusive right to charge interest.>>544264510You clearly didn’t read my entire post. I listed jews from German speaking areas
>>544265161Much of their wealth originated from the time of muslim Spain. Hence partly why it is called the jewish golden age.If they were just a bunch of country yokels they would not be prancing to the courts of kings.
>>544265286Many jewish families had no connection to any Muslim empire though… and again, you can’t blame Muslims for christians maintaining and building jewish wealth.
>>544265629Maintaining maybe. But building, as in setting the foundations for it? I do think I can, and that is what I've been arguing for.And you yourself already admitted that we don't really have good info on whatever handful of jews there might have been in Europe before muslim Spain, wealthy or not. >>544260829So, what makes you think this invisible handful was so significant? As opposed to what I've presented.
>>544265838> And you yourself already admitted that we don't really have good info on whatever handful of jews there might have been in Europe before muslim Spain, wealthy or not.This isn’t true. There were definitely Jewish communities throughout Europe before this. It’s just hard to find specific names. This doesn’t prove lack of rich and powerful jews, it’s a result of the dark ages producing little written records.>>544265838Christians and Muslims treated jews the exact same way. Muslims didn’t give privileges to jews that christians didn’t also give. Even you admitted yourself that the jews of Poland had no relation to Muslim empires, yet they were still rich and powerful
>>544266136I'm not here to argue the Polish jewish case. I got the impression that neither of us really know what is up with that side of Europe. So, it could've been something in favor of your case or mine.And while there might have been rich jews in Europe at the time, we lack the records to make proper conclusions about that invisible few. As opposed to the demonstrably wealthy jews from muslim Spain. It'd take a lot of digging to determine whether or not those later listed prominent jews in the HRE or England didn't have their roots in Spain.And Muslims definitely treated the jews differently. While Christian societies pre-1000s treated jews as basically non-citizens, as demonstrated by, for example, that list of legislation with regard to jews meme that is heavily skewed post 1000s that is often posted here.In muslim Spain, they were second class citizens, which was enough to usher a golden age, so you can't really argue that they were living in outright enforced squalor.Said golden age was with regard to wealth, culture and all the rest.
>>544260475
>>544261869Congrats on still missing the point
>>544266136And just to cover all my bases.The Church prior to the 1000s had legislation in the form of Church Canons specifically to enforce the non-citizen status of the jews at the time.Trullo being accepted in the west during Pope Hadrian I's time.Whatever happened after the 1000s, referring to the jew legislation list meme, is bound to be related to the great schism.
>>544260475Christianity is the dumbest religion ever. They just gave the jews everything on a silver platter. What a bunch of retarded morons. The current trend of christians being goy slaves to zionist israel really disgusts me and makes me hate contemporary modern christianity. What a cucked slave religion for losers.Have some self respect. Stop acting like the jews are your allies. All evidence points to the contrary. They are your slave masters and they whip you daily. You should hate them.
>>544267721>The church enforced the Jewish laws about never interacting with the goyim except as master over slaveWe already know Christians are Judaism-Lite, why make our argument for us?
>>544267702How
>>544266598>I got the impression that neither of us really know what is up with that side of Europe. Speak for yourself, I understand it well. The situation if jews in Poland is the same as the rest of Europe > And while there might have been rich jews in Europe at the time, we lack the records to make proper conclusions about that invisible few.I never claimed jews became instantly rich and powerful the second they entered europe. It obviously took centuries for the wealth to compound. I have a feeling that even if I found rich jews from this era, you would still deny it> While Christian societies pre-1000s treated jews as basically non-citizens, as demonstrated by, for example, that list of legislation with regard to jews meme that is heavily skewed post 1000s that is often posted here.Charlemagne was heavily kiked and he ruled before 1000AD>>544267721Citizenship status means nothing if they’re still allowed to set up banks and charge interest
>>544270297Then the conclusion I'd draw based on these facts is that Charlemagne went against the Church in doing what he was doing.
>>544270457Even the popes took loans from jews though. Catholic banking sucked and always failed.
>>544270640Yes, but that's specifically after the great schism, is it not? The popes have been going progressively more and more nuts since the Gregorian reforms.
>>544260475>Why do Christians claim Jews only became rich and powerful after the French revolution? Anyone who knows anything about history knows this is not true.Name a single Christian that claims that you lying kike rat>Jews began amassing and compounding wealth as soon as Christianity became dominant in Europe.ROFL you kikes truly lie like you breatheYou kikes constantly say jews were shipping boatloads of gold back to the temple in Jerusalem long before Christianity even existedOP is a kike and this is yet another one of their constant dishonest psyop raids to destroy Christianity just like the Protocols of Zion orders them to do
>>544260475>Jews were the ONLY people allowed to lend at interestThis has been proven a lie every time you post it you little putrid kike ratThere is not one single historical document in all of history created by a Christian governing body that said only jews can lend at interestProvide a single document that says this>it can'tConcession accepted, you lying kike rat
>>544271739>no argument>can’t debunk the historical facts in OPLMAO. Bump>>544271602Your rabbi was raped in the ass by romans as he died on the cross>>544270753They’ve been kiked from day one. But yes, they did get progressively worse
>>544272387>jewish rat cannot name a single Christian that does what it claims in OP>jewish rat cannot provide a single historical document to back its interest claim in OP>jewish rat OP cannot refute the gold shipping example that debunked its lies in OPhaha!Your brutal and humiliating concession is accepted, kike
