>google shows up in Finland to build a data center>get told they can't do anything until the potential environmental impacts of the construction site have been investigated>do pic related anyway because fuck youSaar we are CEOs and shiet, we don't give a shit about your laws and regulations
Oh no! Anyways, one apology and fine later..
Wtf Timo gunna do about it?
>>544274533I'm Indian and google is building a huge 600 hectare datacenter in India too. We are thankful to be such an important node in Google's future tech plans.You should be thankful too, given how small and irrelevant Finland is apart from Nokia, Wartsila, Rovio, and Kone.
>>544274533you are fucking hypocrites, all farm land is actually waste land humans already destroyedAI companies arent tearing down forests, farmers are... The place is already fucked so shut the fuck up, please
>>544274906>a place exists on Earth where humans have felled trees>therefore there's nothing wrong with destroying every forest in existence
I hate Finland.
>>544274533Why in Väinämöinen's name would anyone invest in building data centers in Finland? It's a peripheral country of great powers with potential to being the next battleground in the close future, and our energy capacity is sub par. And our overlords in the EU are actively working against the unions best interest in every measurable metric. Do they think muh data centers will compensate our deindustrialization? What am I missing?
>>544274533Will be interesting to see now do Google get same treatment what would normal company getting by spoiling enviroment...One billion fines should be ok by me for them.
>>544275246"Jeets * LLMs = GDP line go to infinity" seems to be an immutable economic law the jews have discovered. Nothing could ever possibly go wrong with this plan.
>>544274533In the netherlands a company built some apartment buildings without a permit, hoping to only pay a fine but the government ordered them to be demolished
>>544274533SAAAAAAR DO NOT INVESTIGATE SAAR
>>544275246I'm not an expert on the subject but I imagine buying land in a sparsely populated country like Finland would be cheaper than in most other European countries. A quick googling told me they also get a tax incentive here.And data centers are getting built in pretty much every country. Not just Finland
>>544275246Cheap electricity
>>544276008I see. Thanks.
>>544274883Disgusting monkey fingers.
>>544274533jeets won
>>544274533>Do illegal land clearing>Local villagers plant old munitions in the area>Warn local construction crews not to go>Foreign slave crews get to become part of the new Finnish space program>Finnish government sues and fines them for 6 gorrlion euros???>Catgirls
>>544274835kek
>>544274533Believe it or not but cutting down forests on a plot of land you own is actually legal over here.>>544275246We got cheap electricity, land and workers and cool weather helps with cooling + you can even sell the waste heat for district heating in lots of places. AI datacenters in particular don't really need to connect anywhere specific so they don't have to be physically close to any population center for lag reasons either.
Based Google. Why do we need "environmental" reports when retards can cut down prime forest for pennies elsewhere? Fuck this gay ass country we deserve to be poor, people are fucking retarded
The purpose of data centers is to take the 70s-00s computer revolution away from the home user. They took the ram and hardware out of reach of regular persons. They jacked up the cost of home computing (and PS5). They are hoping to put all the power and data into a building they control, instead of into your hand or with you in your home.It is the opposite of what everybody stood for. If you work on Data Centers or “super” intelligence you are the enemy of man.
Even if you subscribe to their models and services, the power is rationed out. You cannot play/stream a game infinitely from Xbox on their highest tier. Its limited. So in no way does it make sense to build these, except as some kind of scam/rip off on humankind.
>>544274533Maybe you've never heard of this saying, but the saying is it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.jewgle likely takes that to heart. any fines they take from doing this will be cheaper than the profits they can make doing it and it will be easier to do it now that all the trees are already cut down.Tell your fellow finns to get your government to not just slap them on the wrist and say okay here you go if you want them to be actually punished for this. If they get the go ahead they will be rewarded for their behavior.
>>544277905The worst part is that the "people" who want nothing to ever be built here don't even realize that even if you magically blocked all construction here, they would just built in in Sweden. The exact same amount of trees gone and the same amount of electricity pulled from our grid, just all the taxes and jobs going to Sweden. No trade with Russia, no investment, no using any of our natural resources and then they wonder why is Sweden pulling ahead of us so fast and why we are running out of money.
>>544276297In Finland? Cheap electricity? No, man.
>>544274906>farm land is actually waste land humans already destroyedIt's very unfortunate but I don't know any slurs for retards living in Costa Rica.
>>544274533They... plowed a field?
>>544278645Hyvin sanottu.I've travelled quite a lot, and I just have to say this even if i I don't want to believe it: We Finnish build laws and systems not only to control us, but because we are lazy.There's so many rules of how you can build a bathroom, a road, whatever - this always means there has to be a 'specialist' to bloat the time and cost. At same time we give up the responsibility and do not have to do it (in the end we have the responsibility anyway because our system is a spider web or people where you cant hold anyone accountable of anything, look at the goverment).Fucking hell, we don't even deliver mail daily, there was a time during my years when Sunday groceries were not open and most would close at 22:00. In Asia you can order a coffee machine from local supermarket and get it handed to you same day, you can walk to the shittiest shitbox market 2 AM and get shitfaced.
>>544275246There are universities with skilled tech workers they can hire.
>>544274533>Capitalism is great until Indians do itIf this was a trump brand data center, you'd be calling me a tranny right now if I made your exact post.
strip mine finland (all) then pave it all over for data centers
>>544278645If you want to better your country you want the data centers to not be built in your country though. You get a bit of investment, sure. But utility costs go up in any area a datacenter is built as the costs of the datacenter gets offloaded onto the surrounding citizens. So while your government might get a nice stack of cash your citizens will be poorer.
>>54427453360 hectares
The silver lining here for me personally is that maybe we finally can educate the idiot masses that yes actual civilization requires constant base production of electricity and we manage shed the remaining anti-nuclear idiocy as a society.
>>544279073Capitalism is why every western country is getting flooded with niggers and jeets.
>>544278830Tiraflechas.
>>544275246They probably don't even know how to build on Finnish permafrost properly
>>544274533you won’t do shit because youre a good little NATO cuck now. Obey your tech overlords
>>544277987Tell that to the average goylem who finances everything, from cars to mac&cheese. We're doomed.
>>544274835Is Timo even a snow chink name? I know Simo but Timo is more common in central Europe esp Goymany et al.
>>544279651Yeah. It's our version of Timothy.
>>544276297>Cheap electricityPeak rates in Finland can hit $2 per kwh during polar vortex wobbles. Sweden tops out at about $1 during the same weather events. All due to green energy - when cold air streams southwards, it flows westward, hitting eastward flowing warm air coming from the south. It pushes this warm air westwards in front of it until it runs out of momentum, then it slowly starts to become pushed eastward and normal flow direction is restored. These events take about a week to play out and during this time the wind is very weak for about a week while it is down to -30 C in southern Sweden. Because of green energy transition (windpower) and baseload power plants being scrapped (not profitable because of punitive tariffs and fees from not being green energy) it means that there is an acute electricity shortage during this period.The initial wave of green power sellers have gone bankrupt because they sold on fixed price contracts and were gambling on being able to buy cheap baseload power during periods with weak wind. Then they found out that their business was supported by fees and tariffs placed on already existing baseload powerplants, so these plants were made unprofitable and closed, and then electricity prices during periods with low wind skyrocketed beyond their wildest expectations and they started to hemorrage money when they had to buy extra megawatthours. This process is ever ongoing and it means that energy costs during wind stills are going to rise forever in Europe as more and more baseload powerplants are shut down and scrapped. Only an idiot builds a datacenter here. The brits are planning to fuel their AI datacenters with green energy and baseload power imported from _abroad_. Its never going to work out.
>>544274533Good. I hope they deploy datacenters on every square inch of unused land. I'm currently using Google Argon 4 to vibe code a browser based chess app just for the hell of it.
>>544275246cheap electricity and cheap lobbying
>>544279300>If you want to better your country you want the data centers to not be built in your country though.Why? >But utility costs go up in any area a datacenter is built as the costs of the datacenter gets offloaded onto the surrounding citizensA data center in Sweden (where it would go if it doesn't go here) uses electricity from our grid all the same, we have unified electricity market. All of the "costs" none of the benefits which means literally anything else is better than the alternative.More over this argument doesn't even hold water even if it was built here because the "cost" of electricity is more than made up by the benefit of jobs, the jobs generate more revenue than any possible increase in electricity by definition. Then there's the fact that electricity "cost" doesn't just "vanish", it goes into electricity production which employs more Finnish people. The actual nail in the coffin is that in a healthy electric market (such as ours) more demand just means more production, not some magically rising costs. We will simply build more power plants when we see that there's going to be steady demand for electricity. On the whole we are using basically more electricity than ever and our electricity has never been this cheap. That's how it's supposed to work, economics of scale and all.>>544279742Our electricity has never been that expensive for even a minute this year. The average price of electricity this year is under 8 cents a kwh. Literally no idea what you are talking about.
>>544278645>The exact same amount of trees gone and the same amount of electricity pulled from our grid, just all the taxes and jobs going to Sweden.There is no spare power here except in the very north, but some green energy people are building an iron ore reduction furnace that uses hydrogen, which will consume all available power in northen sweden plus more. The datacenter people are trying to take their electricity and in the end it will come down to who has most loans backing them because they will use investor money to outbid the other for power. The local swedes will ofc get fucked, which they need to be, because they are retarded small town rubes who back all this shit because they see it as a way to raise their social status vs rest of Sweden. Never mind that it is a scam, just like Northvolt because this time it isnt a scam. Right? Right?
>>544280032>spare powerThere's no "spare power" anywhere, that's not how power grids operate. You increase production when there's increase in demand. No clue what you are talking about once again.
>>544279916>Our electricity has never been that expensive for even a minute this year. The average price of electricity this year is under 8 cents a kwh. Literally no idea what you are talking about.I said peak cost which happens during this regulary recurring but random weather phenomen. Its the same thing that makes it snow in Texas but over here. I remember Finland hitting monster prices per KWH a couple of years ago. Your 8 cents per KWH wont last long because you will hemorrhage more and more electricity southwards and westwards due to things happening outside Finland, and our electricity goes southward and westward too, to brits, danes, germans and poles. Your electricity replaces the power we send them. The reason you pay so little (20 years ago before nuclear dismantling Sweden paid 2 cents per KWH) is because you have an almost brand new nuclear reactor. Once northen Sweden hydropower is consumed by planned datacenters and Stegra green steel, you will not only lose the power you import from northen Sweden, you will also export power there.
>>544280377>I said peak costAnd I said that it has never peaked that high. In fact during the last 10 years it has "peaked" that high exactly once for few minutes. Peak prices themselves are completely irrelevant figure because datacenters are on 24/7 and consequently only care about the average price of electricity. You are talking with 0 understanding of anything except some memes I guess. This is my last reply to you.
>>544280099>There's no "spare power" anywhere, that's not how power grids operate. You increase production when there's increase in demand. No clue what you are talking about once again.There is no spare power as in smaller enterprises are being denied 10-30 megawatt power hookups to the grid in southern and middle Sweden. You have no clue. And because you have no clue, you will lose your cheap energy. Datacenters are extremely inefficient in terms of local employment provided per KWH consumed. They are not only very few, they are also low skill and low pay, meaning that they will likely be staffed by imported pajeets.
>>544279702I only heard that name in Goymany, Asstria and Mountain Israel aka Shwitzerland so far
>>544274883>indian>picture of jewish master as his wallpapercan't make this up
>>544274533This might upset me if I were a statist cuck.
>>544280756We have pretty Germanic names because of the whole being fucked by Sweden for centuries thing.
>>544274740you mean you have to apologize to your master amerigolem and pay them money for stalling their plan to build a survillance police state ?you dont want yo be the next Ukraine dont you?
>>544280528>Peak prices themselves are completely irrelevant figure because datacenters are on 24/7 and consequently only care about the average price of electricity.It matters becasuse if the datacenter buys power at a fixed rate, the provider will have to eat the loss when these weather events happen, and once the first idiots have gone bankrupt from a "random" but recurring weather event, next provider will sell power at a much higher rate. To avoid this, the datacenter will buy power directly from a baseload plant, fucking you out of cheap power during wind stills. You will go "uh, uh uh uh why power bill so large??" without understanding that you consented to that bullshit by voting for green energy, power market deregulation and all the other shit. Go ahead, build that data center in Finland, see how much you like it.Datacenters is a way to export finnish electricity abroad at the speed of light.
>>544275246Look at the pick>power grid>remote but not remote enough>cold climate>water breaking out from soilIf you make datacenter, this is kinda ideal place for it
>>544275246Cold temperature+sparse population density+lots of water?
>>544274533they will get to be there tax free and get the worlds cheapest electric of the backs of taxpayers in the end. they are already working to fire the person that got in the way of this billion dollar investment (lets just ignore 98% of that is foreign equipment)
>>544274533They'll bribe the local gov later.
>>544278830He's completely right though. Farmland is terrible for the environment. To create farmland you have to completely cleanse the existing biosphere from existence so you can plant your monoculture crop. Not to mention the pesticides which wash off your crop and poison the water for all animals and plants.
>>544276008this shithole is the only one that is happy to get them
>>544274533You climate activists need to be thrown in prison. You're all schizophrenic retards.
>>544281496Datacenters pay taxes like everyone else. Substantially more than nothing which is the alternative as well.
>>544278645im so tired of seeing people fall for the headlines. everyone partying of gorillion dollar investments of which our countries only get scraps and everyone from land owners to taxpayers suffer
>>544274835Rofl
>>544281706they should pay more
>>544279300in finland people love the concept of no money for people all money for the state. they always beg for higher taxes despite getting less return every year and politicians carelessly throwing billions at tech shit no one wants to use
>>544281890If you read past the headlines you could just look at the existing datacenters which pay substantial taxes and create substantial jobs that pay substantially higher wages than comparable jobs in finland. The fact that not literally all of the hypothetical money being invested actually comes here (because we literally do not manufacture chips here) is totally irrelevant because getting millions instead of billions now and millions in recurring tax revenue and jobs is in fact better than getting nothing.>>544281996They actually do but even that's sort of besides the point. Some business with some tax is better than no business with no tax even if they got tax breaks to come here.
>>544279742these only apply to residential customers. the big corpos get the real price of production here also called mankala.
>>544282093the property tax is substantial only to ordinary citizens because they are so fucking poor. google does not pay taxes to the random country they make their real profits of
>>544282614>google does not pay taxes to the random country they make their real profits ofThey pay all the same taxes as any other business would. They pay taxes on the property, they pay taxes on the wages, they pay taxes on the electricity they use etc. All of this stuff amounts to millions that directly pays for our welfare system to keep our poors alive. Then of course everyone who works there pays incredibly high taxes on their incredibly high wages because they also pay substantially more than basically anyone else. Our wages are so shit that Google can come in here and pay (for them) really shit wages and still make their janitors look like some kind of hyper expert in comparison to our engineers. In Googles data centers the average wage is almost 8000 a month, the average wage in Finland in 3500.
AI is going to remove million+ jobs from Finland. Who is going to pay enough taxes to feed the unemployed? Google?
>>544274533so they moved some dirt around who cares?
>>544274533>have been investigated>>do pic related anyway becauseThats how they investigate hehe
>>544283061All unused land is forest over here. They illegally cut down good amount of trees.
>>544283243i'm sure you still have plenty of trees lol
>>544274533This is why europe is 50 years behind the US and China in tech. Hopelessly lost.
>>544276008Chicago has more data centers than the UK.
>>544274533you know what they say.>In a world of Elons, be a ....
>>544277987Going back to the terminal model will software lockin.
>>544283282EU told us that we can't have forest industry anymore because of environment because Germany cut down their trees centuries ago.
>>544282812yeah those are the scrapsi mean. companies sre supposed to pay taxes of the profit but its really only small and midsize locally owned companies that have to do that and so can’t compete with chinks
>>544283499checked>EU told us
>>544283598Not only are they "not scraps" but they are the same as any other business. Again you have literally negative arguments here, not only does Google pay taxes, they pay substantially more taxes than basically anyone else because of their incredibly high wages but even if they paid no taxes they would still be providing extremely well paid jobs and the alternative to high taxes and well paid jobs is literally nothing.
data centers in cold reagions are good not because easier cooling but because theres always a customer for your heat you can sell that (it not a game changing amount more a nice to have)>>544276311when will u change the finnish flag to this guy?
>>544283944Cooling is larger part of the cost of running a data center. Literally just having cooler outside air will reduce the operating costs by a substantial margin. The new data centers Google is doing (pick in OP) are no where near anywhere where waste heat could be used. In some cases they can sell the waste heat too but that's not the reason why they are building them here now (the earlier data centers do sell the waste heat too)
>>544283652Our politicians are the goodest goys in front of EU. They accept anything. Now we're going backwards 25 years in our returnable bottles technology because EU wants us to do like southern Europe who are just now adopting the system. It's going to cost ludicrous amount of money to just go back to worse system that we tried decades ago. I liked the old thicker bottles so it's not all bad. And maybe we will see return of glass beer bottles, those were good shit.
>>544283499>GermanyLOL
>>544274883i can literally see fecal matter on your hands and keyboard
>>544274883>>544274906both of you are going to be shoved into the ovens, screaming for your demon gods to save you, but there will only be flames
