I still believe Europe and Russia could end up as friend, united you are stronger, I believe in you guys. The real enemy of Europe is the nigger and North African and pajeet who want to replace you, the non ethnic European, nigger are biggest enemy because…. Sub sharan have biggest birth rate and keep coming to Europe in boats, I hope thing would end up okay Russia and Europe must fix their relationship and become united
I do not think we will ever be able to trust Europe again. Too much bad blood between us.
>>544679657what if we both kill our leaders and oligarchs and set up a new system where we take out the representative system of a ruling class in exchange for individualistic representation.I have no beef with a russian, polacks might but with every individual I doubt it?
>>544679899The only way I see that working is Europe abandoning EU. Then we would be able to deal with different countries separately. Russia - France, Russia - Sweden etc. When EU acts as a single thing it will always be influenced by Poland, Finland and others which are impossible to deal with. But this is never going to happen, so there's that.
>>544679657>Bad bloodhappens when all you people can do is lie and backstab everyone around youRussia was always a shithole which is why they had to shoot people who tried to leave during USSR daysUntill you people can behave like civilized people we are not interested
>>544680282That's what I said - we are better off on different sides of the fence. You want nothing to do with us. We want nothing to do with you. Its a win-win.
>>544679657dafuq has Belgium ever done to your people?
>>544680477I want to be your fren tho...
>>544679657>Too much bad blood between usBetween who? The average person here is more scared of their own government than of Russia.
>>544680513Is not a vassal state nor do they ball wash Russians like Serbs like to do
>>544680513If Belgium was a separate state - nothing, but you are a part of the big EU project. Some Latvia might not have bad blood with Yamal Oblast, but it is a part of Russia, so they have bad blood by proxy.
>>544680633>>544680597we must be f-frens tho...>>544680594>The average person here is more scared of their own government than of Russia.TRVKE...
>>544680585I have been to Belgium around 14 years ago. Nice place, nice people. I liked it there, although hotels in Brussels were a bit expensive. Idk how it is there now.
>>544680633Keep seething about EU broi am sure it will delete all those mosques you have in your countryfun fact Czech republic has fewer muslims than you have mosques
>>544680727>14 years ago>Idk how it is there now.completely down the shitter mate
>>544679573we dont even need to be friendswe just need to not be enemies
>>544679573Russia asserts too much control over too many resources, if there was an alliance they would effectively "own" the EU, and noone wants that, shit, I dont want that. Did people forget what Russia was like prior to this war? I wouldnt want to be in an alliance with them.Between hacks endorsed by the government to full on assassination, no, I dont think we can be friends. Russia needs to change first, not us.
>>544679573Never ever, our government is not just dumb, they are dumb and bloodthirsty. They want to be a special cookie in the jar, not just some country on the map. You'll be lucky if China decide to take all eurasia.
Russia has no natural borders so Russians don't feel safe unless surrounded by big buffer zone of friendly/neutral countriesThis is not fun for countries on Russia borderPeace with Russia is only possible if all border states are well armed and defended, because any weakness (real or imagined) will provoke Russian invasion(George Kennan explained all this 80 years ago)
>>544679573The real enemy is the US/UK and always hasd been. Dumbass>>544679657Yep. Anglokikes got you retards right where they want you
>>544679573No thank you.
>>544679657A sad side effect of allowing insane Balts and Poles to set our foreign agenda. I remember at the start of all this sensible British, French and German leaders saying "Don't blame Russians, this is Putin, Russia can in time be free and be friends again", and it all being ruined by butthurt belters screaming for all Russians -- many of whom are here because they disagree with Putin -- to be expelled, and sharing insane fantasies of dismembering Russia. It will go down as the worst mistake in European history to allow those morons to poison the water so badly
>>544679657drama queenwe: nobody cares about russiarussia: you hurt my feelings, i cant be your friend anymorei mean who are you talking to? nafo troons?
>>544680793I kind of miss going to Europe in general. Last time I visited was a few months ago. But it was work, so I did not get a chance to see anything. Used to go 1-2 times a year before COVID.
>>544679573There are 2 ways this happens:Muslims successfully wipe out Europe and replace the people, thus aligning with Russian ideology of open borders mass immigration and islamification.Russian ruling authorities have collapse following death of current communist generation and a reset of relations.Both cases are unlikely.
>>544680978But this isnt even true, most people are saying they do not want to have a fucking war with Russia, they just want the war to stop, noone is out here baying for Russias blood they are more concerned that Russia seems to be meeting the meat grinding with a collective shrug, and that if Putin does keep the war going and it escalates they are not saying "Russia needs to stop the war" they are saying "why is does everyone hate Russia".Everyone hates the Kremlin, always have, Russian people seem to actually like them is the problem, so what the fuck fuck do you do.
>>544680978Yeah, that's more or less what I said here >>544680178These guys are just impossible to deal with, not even here on /pol/. Its like having a conversation with a radio.
Dismantle the EU first and then various countries can decide what stance to hold on Russia. This collectivism is stale.
>>544679657Just bend over and submit to China! It is your natural state to be subjugated by the far eastern horde.Just die quietly, will you?
>>544680978Balts and Poles are so insane we aren't bombing anyone and flooding media with bot accounts and shills like Scott Ritter calling everyone nazis
>>544681082We VILL be frens againWe VILL buy Russian oil and gas againWe VILL visit each others countries againand we VILL be happy
>>544681310That's the spirit I can get behind! Thank you, positive anon!
>>544681310You inspired me to make this
>>544681707big trvke too
>>544680477>You want nothing to do with usExcept that they need and want us but not as sovereign state, they want to own russia. No matter what any retarded eurofag is going to tell you, ultimately EU wet dream is balkanized russia, because as a whole we control too many resources too many people under a single banner.
>>544679657>We traded peacefully for 35 years>germany sent helmets to hoholstan when we invaded>unforgivablecollective mental illness. collective narcissism, to be exact. it also has interesting sections about being ashamed about ones origin or identity while violently defending its perceived "honor". mbe read up a bit
>>544679573the EU kikes won't allow us to be friends
>>544682051>they want to own russiaew no thanksIf you people fucked off back to Russia and stayed there that would be ideal
>>544681192Russia does feel vulnerable because of lack of natural borders, true. But it doesn't mean it wants to attack anyone. So instead of provoking it and acting like a rabid tiny dog which the butthurt belters seem to be most of the time, why not be neighborly, like Belarus or Kazakhstan? Would it kill you to be nice?
>>544679573How? Germany tried their hardest to tie Russia to Europe economically so that they wouldn't start their retarded land grabs, but as we see it didn't work because Russia needs even more land for whatever reason.
>>544679573The USA would prefer to nuke all of it's european "allies" than see Europe and Russia unite as close and inseparable allies. Unfortunately it is not happening in our lifetime.
>>544682204Don't be naive. The West can't allow Russia to exist because it offers an alternative. The whole Western totalitarian system is based upon "TINA" (There Is No Alternative). Russia functioning at all as an illiberal state makes liberals in the West foam in the mouth. They'll never stop until one side wins.
>>544682520>because it offers an alternativea muslim riddled totalitarian country filled with drunks is an alternative? fuck that nigger
>>544682204As mentioned, the interference,hacks and literal assassinations doesnt exactly endear Russia into anyones good graces where they want to be close to them. Maybe after Putin is dead.
>>544679657didn't Germans, French and British murder a sizeable amount of you in the past two centuries? I don't think the current situation compares.
>>544679657there are 27 countries in europe, and it's not like you get along with japan, australia or the US. How do you manage to get in bad terms with most of the civilized world?
>>544682730Well he didn't live in those times so those didn't matter to him. Neither did ww1 and countless wars before. People will forget and move on
>>544682772Probably because all of them are ruled by a single entity?
>>544682924no that's russia
>>544682994>nononono its not the jews >must be russia
>>544682613I think you're talking about UK.
>>544682772The "civilized world" is a monolithic entity owned by the same people, that Russia refuses to bend the knee to.
>>544683059>us wants to annex canada and steal greenland but wants to stop all sanction on russiayour views don't match reality
>>544683059so go fight them not europeans?
>>544683209israel is one of the rare countries not to impose sanctions on russia lmaoshut down the thread this one is over
>>544682613>a muslim riddled totalitarian countryHow is "democratic" “non-totalitarian” Ukraine doing? Is everything fine with it?
>>544683347I'm not talking about the Jews :)
>>544679573european union will collapse soon, its more important to build relations with individual states and political forces
>>544683368Would you prefer being able to actually influence your countries choice of leader?
>>544683259We are currently in a dispute / fight with them, Ukraine is winning by killing billions of Russians, why do you want us to stop dying? >>544683241>world is white and blackhello creddit
>>544682204>>544682520>>544683553Why do memeflags have such a negative view of West/EU but positive of Russia?
>>544683832For the same reason you see the same points from the same 3-5 retards time and time again.if you cannot recognize people you are tourist or disingenuous faggot
>>544683832Because Russia is an independent country (with all it's faults) and the West is collectivist ideological BS that benefits a few
>>544683970>if you cannot recognize peopleEnlighten me, who are they? I only recognize the XD polack
>>544684151I am not asking why you, specifically have a positive view of Russia, but why do apparently most of the memeflags here (in this thread, on /pol/). I suspect you are from a 3rd World country (in the positive sense of the word - unaligned) that views Russia as an anti-imperialist and anti-colonial power?
>>544684164I wasnt talking about the memeflags specifically, those are likely various browns from brazil. I was talking about "people" i spoke to. >hSDR1kK1>j55y+Zyf>R5kgW9KiI assumed just like start to recognize these retards, you would start to recognize these memeflags as well
>>544684277I'm from an EU and NATO country.. I don't care about Russia as Russia, I just dislike the collectivist idealistic politics of the West. I would support an independent France, Germany, Italy etc. or smaller unions such as Scandinavian.
NOOOOOOOOOOOWE NEED NIGGERS, WE NEED MORE NIGGERS, DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTHDONT FALL FOR THE ZIGGER SHILLS, NIGGERS ARE THE ONLY HOPE FOR EVROPA'S FUTURE
>>544683622Putin has been too soft on you as it is.
When the war is over, one way or the other, trading will resume eventually. There is too much interest in trade for both, EU and Russia, for that not to happen. Europe will never again consider Russia a friend though. Russia got us with our pants down this time, this will not happen again.
>>544684385>I'm from an EU and NATO countryshow flag then, its such an easy problem to solve
>>544684543>Europe will never again consider Russia a friend though. Thats our line in the play, fuck off>Russia got us with our pants down this time, this will not happen again.he said 24th
>>544679573Just stop supporting Ukraine who doesn't' let Russian citizens proclaim independence and acts like prison of nations and that's it. Easy.
>>544684543It was Europe that stopped the trade, not Russia. Russia is still selling energy resources to China, India, and Turkey. Europe is suffering from high prices and deindustrialization.Even under Scholz, the Eurocrats were effectively refusing to pay for the gas supplied by Russia. If you remember, they were bragging about their sanctions and trying to ‘freeze’ payments for gas supplied by the Russian Federation in their own accounts. In Russia, they immediately realized that they wouldn’t have to pay at all, and turned off the valve. Because on the other side, those who have become damn insolent and colonial are still sitting there - give them gas for free.
>>544684543“ Russia got us with our pants down this time, this will not happen again.” Germany is just small country with no power of their own, can’t even launch satellites Know your place, no hate but Germany today is not that important
>>544684508So you are saying you would prefer having a choice lmao?
>>544679573Shilling thread.Russia is literally killing Europeans at this very moment, and through its actions in Syria, it has created millions of refugees. All of Europe’s current problems stem from Russia and its policies over the last 16 years.
>>544684851>All of Europe’s current problems stem from Russia and its policies over the last 16 years.Nice try glownigger.>Russia is literally killing Europeans at this very momentUkraine should have given Russia everything they asked for like Serbia should have handed over Kosovo in 1999. Same logic.
>>544684670He's lithuanian.
>>544680282>Russia was always a shithole>says the pornographic capital of Europelmao, commit KMS, delusional Pepíček
>>544683819I want you to fight them, not Europeans, which you are currently killing.
>>544684851>through its actions in SyriaDefending the legal government from American-backed rebels? The first wave of sandniggers was from Iraq and Afghanistan btw.
>>544684784>can’t even launch satellitesWhat do you mean by this? Aren't they part of the ESA Ariane program? Also, why is that a crucial thing?
>>544684963These "Europeans" willingly and passionately became tools of an anti-Russian (and anti-human) elite. Contrary to popular belief, Putin doesn't possess a mass brainwashing tool to fix them.
>>544684784>Germany today is not that importantYou fucking wish David
>>544684851Talk about reverse accusation. All of the recent European suffering stems from American interference, all of it
>>544680282You're an embarassment.
>>544684784You're wrong, Europe is important and Germany is still the uncontested industrial powerhouse of the continent
>>544679573Europe is in the middle of a Sudoku session in case you haven’t noticed.Maybe focus on fixing your relationship with your own people/former allies rather than being a bunch of fucking retards shooting guns at each other
>>544684851>Russia is literally killing Europeans at this very momentas if most euros don't deserve to be slaughteted, given how degen they are...
>>544685356It's not that easy when you are vassal states and your hegemon does everything it can to keep you weak and divided. I just wish Europeans leaders had the willpower to tell you to fuck off but they all bow to their americano-jewish master
>>544685619The real master is in London, even of the American liberals. The Jews are a sideshow.
>>544684826I also have a proposal for Austrian society as a whole. Whenever your politician, whether in government or opposition, talks about bombing Russia with nuclear weapons, do the following: give him a map. Show him how to calculate the distance from Moscow to Vienna. Ask how long it would take for the radiation cloud to reach Austria - given the wind direction, radioactive fallout, and contamination.
>>544679573no i hate Russiathe world was going to shit with all the covid bullshit, and just when things where getting better they decide to invade a country causing major economic setbacks and inflationas if a global pandemic wasn't enough
>>544686104>invade a country causing major economic setbacks and inflationNo, invading Ukraine didn't do that. Your sanctions did. You didn't have to sanction Russia because Ukraine got invaded, as Ukraine is not even a EU member. But you believed in delusions of overthrowing Putin. Instead, the EU governments are getting overthrown by pro-Russian parties. This is what collectivist, dimwitted EU thinking does.
>>544686104They did try to find a peaceful resolution but western leaders had another plan
>>544686104They tried to find a peaceful resolution but western leaders had other plans in mind
>>544686263>You didn't have to sanction Russia because Ukraine got invadedof course we didn't have to, but it would be very bad to let Russia just go around and invade countries and kill people
>>544686431Good, then admit that it's your Protestant psychotic moralistic collectivist mentality to blame for the economic damage.
>>544686431>kill people>subhuman ukie kikes/libtards>peoplechoose one, shabbos goy
>>544679573USA will never allow it, which is why we are in this pozzled mess to begin with
>>544686104Inflation in Western economies began to accelerate long before February 2022. Look at the balance sheets of the Federal Reserve and the ECB, at the budget injections, at the energy transition that Western governments themselves set in motion. It was not Russia that printed money, and it was not Russia that shut down production. That was done by the very people who are now looking for an external culprit.
>>544686477>Protestant psychotic moralistic collectivist mentalitydid you feel smart typing that?
>>544686531No to be fair it's a pity that bussified Ukrainians are dying instead of European Redditors. Then at least their death would mean the improvement of our continent.
>>544686572Feel free to sanction me
>>544686606>European Redditors.they are, too, just not en masse, like ukies
>>544679573why does gulaghomo always lose to straight white christian heterosexuals?
>>544679657How exactly do you think europe started this?Either this is a proxy war between US and russia.Or it is a proxy war between US and china.Europe didn't start this.Europe and russia are continuing it (which can still be criticised)But they didn't start it.
>>544682180Very naive take. Everyone would like to own that land. The only reason we dont yet, is because of the 5k pointy things.
>>544679657shut up snow nigger
>>544686431Still, you don't seem to have a problem turning a blind eye to attrocities when they originate from your greatest allies like Israel, USA, Saudi Arabia, ... Western countries need to understand that the whole world had enough of their double standards, and no one is taking it anymore
>>544686568but why invade and murder your neighbor?
>>544686941>but why invade and murder your neighbor?cuz ukies are aggresive subhuman kikes, simple as thatnot only that but we should nuke/genocide poland, too
>>544686431You are asking this question as if nothing had happened before 2022. Where were those who now talk about 'allowing' when the Minsk agreements, as the Europeans themselves admitted, were used to prepare Ukraine for war? Start with the investigation of the Nord Stream sabotage. Then your question will sound not as a rhetorical figure, but as a real grievance against those who truly fuel wars.
>>544684784
>>544687065>look these people are so aggresive>we should genocide them!>and all the other people too! kill them all!is this russian logic?
>>544687236>is this russian logic?amazing logic, aggresive behavior should always be returned the initiator
>>544687236This is not ‘Russian logic’ but a caricature and a substitution of the thesis: first a fictitious quote is constructed, and then it is attributed to an entire nation.
>>544687236Maybe they shouldn't have done it but there was still an opportunity to solve this in Istanbul and the West doubled down. What can you really expect with people such as Boris Johnson and Victoria Nuland? They're just as nuts as Putin.
>>544687109Before the 2022 rusniggers invaded Ukraine, but successfully gaslighted the whole world that they didnt. Im not sure whats your point there.
>>544679899bot or a retard?99% of russians love their government and approve everything czar putin does on their behalf.
>>544682772>Walloon having the nerve to ask this
>>544687109>were used to prepare Ukraine for war?at the time i thought it was silly, i'd never thought russia would invade ukraine. In hindsight it was actually pretty good for ukraine to prepare for war
>>544679573give me one reason why they need to be friends?russia is their special own thing. an asiatic empire.
>>544687384The only meaning here is this: you are trying to rewrite the chronology after the fact and substitute concepts. Before 2022 there was no 'invasion' about which the whole world was supposedly 'successfully misled.' There was a state coup in Kyiv in 2014, there was a referendum in Crimea where people voted for reunification with Russia, and there was a civil war in the Donbas that the Kyiv regime waged against its own citizens. If anyone misled anyone, it was the Western capitals, which for eight years spoke of a 'peaceful settlement' while, as they themselves later admitted, preparing Ukraine for war.
>>544687440If you now, retroactively, consider preparation for it 'a good idea,' then direct your questions about the causes and consequences of that 'good decision' to those who made it. And don't call it an 'invasion' — call things by their proper names: an attempt by the West to turn Ukraine into an anti-Russian bridgehead, which, like all such adventures, ended predictably.
>>544687440Or maybe, just maybe, they could have respected the Minsk Agreement to at least try to avoid this war instead of doing everything in their power to push Russia in a corner
>>544679573>united you are strongerGermany and France won't allow that.
>>544687794They have no say in it. Europeans fate is settled in Washington
>>544687794Both have a lot to gain from Russia. There's only one country in Europe who truly opposes Russia and that's the UK and their pawns in Eastern Europe.
>>544680890>I dont want that.lol, as if you have any say in the world.
>>544687710>And don't call it an 'invasion'its a invasion though, why would you even pretend its anything else?
>>544680890We need to develop a technology to move your little shitty island to the other side of the Atlantic so Europeans finally have a chance to leave in peace and harmony.Or drop nukes until everything is below sea level
Live*
>>544687794Germany and france could benefit from it. It's the anglokikes who would oppose it.
>>544687582Excuse me, mr, rusnigger, but how did that happen, that both the "referendum" and "civil war" happened exactly where the russian forces were present?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas#Russian_invasions_and_first_Minsk_agreement_(2014%E2%80%932015)
>>544688244Holy basedFinally a sentient person on this board
>>544688129You can repeat the word ‘invasion’ as often as you like, but repetition does not turn a political label into an argument. If you want to discuss what happened, start with 2014: the coup in Kyiv, the war against Donbas, the Minsk agreements that your own European officials now admit were a cover for military preparation, and NATO’s relentless push toward our borders.
>>544684962Ta ja ňeznam tote športovce na vyhodze
>>544688442>športovcewhat sportsmen? wdym?
>>544688282We didn't touch it at all. Yes, there were our volunteers there, but the Russian state had nothing whatsoever to do with it. One shouldn't exaggerate Russia's influence on the militia; there was a distortion of facts in the reports of international organizations. The people of Donbas made the right choice then, defended it in battle, having found no help or protection from international organizations. Russia in 2014 did not recognize the referendums in the LPR and DPR de jure precisely because it was trying to preserve Ukraine's integrity and resolve the conflict through diplomatic means.
>>544688352>i entered a country with my army>i want to overthrow that country with my army>but its not a invasion at all! >actually its all your faultwhat is this logic?
>>544679573you're retarded and know absolutely zero about russian history. russia tried to be iwth the west, but the west fucked them over and assassinated the tsars. ain't no way russia will come back
>>544686375Peaceful resolution wouldn't give europe a free reign over russian natural resources which is what this war is all about
>>544685054gassad targeted civilians and caused a mass refugee crisis that was used to slip terrorists into europe, all of russia's doing. you can't hide it anymore. at the beginning of russia's second invasion of ukraine they were sending syrians through belarus into poland. the funny thing about that is the russians also use that for propaganda to whine about how intolerant poland is for discriminating against the heckin shitskins. russia is a nigger loving shithole, same as europe
>>544688282I’m curious: when all this ends and the national battalions are walking bent over in White Swan (and some are hanging in nooses in the forests of Donbas), how will Wikipedia moderation roll all this back? Will they just click ‘select all edits after 2022’ and revert it? We’ll have to reconcile eventually - there’s no way around it. The world is too integrated; a complete split into West and East won’t work. Even China is heavily dependent on the EU and the US as sales markets.
>>544688711>russian aggression the past 30 years that caused nato to expand is because russia is defending its resources!dumb nigger
>>544688720>>544688816You're a retired ZOGbot, aren't you?
>>544688672This is not 'our logic' but your retelling, built as a straw man. You take a complex conflict and turn it into a four-line caricature so as not to deal with the causes. By the way, Russia does not deny that in 2022 it sent troops.
>>544686718Europe did not start it, but it does everything to keep it going. Not saying you have no right to do this, but hard to expect relations to go back to normal after this.
>>544688586>>544688807>he went full schizo and ignored everythingAs expected. Truly, rusniggers are masters of chutzpah.>The more disputes I had with them, the better acquainted I became with their dialectics. First they would count on the stupidity of their adversaries, and then, if there was no way out, they pretended stupidity themselves. If all else failed, then they claimed they did not understand correctly, or, being challenged, instantly jumped to another subject, and talked truisms; but if these were agreed to they at once applied them to entirely different matters, and then in turn, being caught again, they would dodge and have no exact knowledge. No matter where you seized one of these apostles, your hand grasped slimy ooze, which poured in separate streams through the fingers, only to unite again the next moment. But if you really gave a man such a shattering defeat that, observed by others, he could do nothing but agree, and if you thought this at least one step forward, how great was your surprise the following day! The Russian had not the slightest memory of yesterday, and went on repeating his old mischievous nonsense as if nothing at all had happened. Being indignantly taxed with this he would pretend astonishment, and could remember nothing at all except the truth of his statements, which after all had been proved the day before.
>>544689006ukraine overthrew your puppet in ukraine because they didn't want to be part of russia so you send in your special forces to support your fifth column. you could have not acted like niggers and tried to win ukraine over diplomatically, but there is something wrong with russians psychologically and they know they can only exert their influence through imperialism. it's the same story as the cold war with the world fighting russian imperialist aggression
>>544679899Never ever people decided anything. Look at country with most armed population - Muttmerica. They learned what their ruling class literally rapes kids, and what none of rapists got persecuted by law, they start wars for other countries sake. Yet no one does anything, if even most heavily armed population can't(or not willing to use their abilities) do anything, others can't influence shit either. In end who has money calls the shots, always. Flukes like bolsheviks can happen only when state ruins itself first, it's elites divided and they tear themselves apart, losing control. Only during chaos when money temporarly do not mean much other factors can work. If elites are united and avoid open confrontation people are powerless.
>>544688711Great, let's sacrifice Ukraine on the altar of immoral geopolitics so instead of a fair access to affordable ressources Europeans get nothing but economic depression, political instability, legitimacy crisis and social unrest.Art of the deal
>>544689006all this mental gymnastics just doesn't sit well with me. If you send your army to invade a country, its a invasion.
>>544689231I can say the same about Western negotiators: you catch them at their word - they refer to 'changed circumstances'; you show them a document - they say it 'doesn't reflect the whole picture'; you confront them with their own signature - they reply that 'the context was different.' The Minsk agreements are an example of that. Shall I remind you how Angela Merkel and François Hollande admitted after the fact that they never intended to implement them? Shall I remind you how Boris Johnson scuppered the Istanbul process? Where is the 'Russian dialectic' here? This is Western practice perfected.And one more thing: you write that 'these blockheads are masters of arrogance.' Suppose so. But then explain to me why, for several years now, the same group of countries has been demanding that Russia 'fulfill its obligations' while itself fulfilling none of its own? Why do you see 'arrogance' only on one side? Maybe because it's more convenient for you that way - not to delve into arguments, but to resort immediately to insults?
>>544689089It's not like you left the area you invaded or even looked for any type of reasonable deal.I am more than willing to oppose the west whenever possible.
>>544689515No one leaves ground they shed blood for, that's not a reasonable expectation
>>544689362International politics is not a school textbook where one word is enough. If you send an army into Iraq under a fabricated pretext — that is an invasion. If you bomb Yugoslavia without UN Security Council authorization — that is an invasion. If you spend years expanding military infrastructure toward someone else's borders and then act surprised that you are perceived as a threat — that, too, is part of the picture. You may dislike 'mental exercises,' but without them your 'this is an invasion' turns into a slogan, not an analysis.
>>544689507is that all you people do is lie? every day it's the same lies, you know you're lying, we know you're lying. there was never any agreement. all nato expansion happened because you kept invading neighborsyou are literally a government shill from telegram that will eventually die in ukraine once your superiors realize how much of a stupid nigger you are
>>544689515I think there was a good chance for peace in March 2022, but Boris and Biden had a different opinion. Then until Biden left the office both US and EU rejected any kind of peace talks. When Trump took the office... yeah, Russia should have been more flexible in negotiatuions.
>>544689089If europe invaded russia for ANY reason, would you expect russia to EVER back down in attempting to fight this?>>544689515My bad for samefagging.
>>544679657Stop sending shitskins to our border and we may concider opening it.
>>544689515Can we really blame them to be overly cautious after European leaders lied through their teeth at numerous occasions ?
>>544689690"Europe" is not a country. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine isn't even in the EU.
>>544689690Russia invaded EU?
>>544689270In 2014, Viktor Yanukovych was the legitimately elected president. He was overthrown not by 'Ukrainians who did not want to be part of Russia,' but by radical forces backed by Western capitals, in violation of the settlement agreement signed by those same Western mediators. It was a state coup, not an expression of the people's will. And if you believe that overthrowing legitimate authority is a 'struggle for freedom,' then why do you deny that same right to the residents of Donbas, who refused to recognize the new government?You claim: 'you sent your special forces there to support your fifth column.' This assertion has been repeatedly refuted, including at the highest level. The Russian president stated directly that the Russian state had nothing to do with the events in Donbas in 2014, and that volunteers went there at the call of their hearts, not on orders. You may not believe it, but the fact remains: no evidence to the contrary has emerged in all these years. If it exists, produce it. For now I see only the repetition of talking points that have been voiced for ten years without any documentary support.
>>544689507Even for a rusnigger blaming the West for not implementing the Minsk agreements (according to which they had no obligations whatsoever, they were only mediators) is a new low. I literally cant believe how stupid these subhumans are.
>>544689605You say: 'There was no agreement.' Which agreement are you referring to? If you mean the agreement on settling the crisis in Ukraine of 21 February 2014, signed by Viktor Yanukovych and the opposition with Germany, France and Poland as mediators, then it did exist. The document exists, it has been published, and it bears signatures. And it was violated the very next day, when Yanukovych left Kyiv and the Rada voted to remove him bypassing the impeachment procedure. This is not my interpretation, it is chronology. If you believe there was no agreement, you simply do not know the facts.You claim: 'All NATO expansion happened because you constantly invaded neighboring countries.' This is reversing cause and effect. NATO expanded eastward long before 2022. In 1999 Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary joined the alliance. In 2004 Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, as well as Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia joined. This happened when there were no 'invasions.' Moreover, in 1990 Western leaders assured Moscow that NATO would not expand eastward. Those assurances were given, and they were broken. You can repeat the mantra of 'constant invasions' as much as you like, but chronology says otherwise: the alliance's expansion moved forward, not in response to any actions by Russia.
>>544689006>Russia does not deny that in 2022 it sent troops.Except it did to last second. Also denied "polite green men", post-2014 tourists on vacation at Donbass buying gear from local military surplus shop that sold BUK systems.It's all lies with Russia and it's so very boring.
>>544679573Get it over with and conquer europe bro. The eurofags have given up anyways, they're not gonna put up a fight. Ukraine and poland and probably also finland were the only countries that would ever put up a fight because they're not smart enough not to.
>>544689889That is exactly the problem. Angela Merkel and François Hollande themselves said afterward that they never intended to implement the Minsk agreements in the form in which they were signed, but used them to buy time. Petro Poroshenko said the same thing. So the question is not whether the West had formal signatures under every point, but that the Western participants in the process deliberately turned the agreements into a sham. After such admissions, only someone who does not want to hear their own Western politicians can blame Russia for 'failing to implement Minsk.'Furthermore, the Minsk agreements failed not because Russia did not implement them, but because Kyiv refused to implement their political part: constitutional reform, decentralization, amnesty, local elections in certain areas of Donbas. These were the very points that formed the basis of the settlement. They were sabotaged for years, with the silent consent of those very 'mediators.' And then they started saying that Russia was to blame. This is not a new low. It is another old Western habit of rewriting chronology.
>>544679657Europe is a fake termin anyway. There is no Europe. By using this word you only serve the interests of globalists.We can't trust people who control leading countries in EU, that's for sure. They are all connected by shared business interests, same patrons(jews) and common goal of weakening Russia. And as I sad above, these people will not go away unless chaos(created by folly of these people themselves) happens in EU, as democratic institutions is a well controlled theatre. Best example is UK, where no matter whom brits choose, every cabinet brings more jeets and pakis and make further advances towards police state.You also should not waste your breath on arguing with regular goyim here, who seething at you. They are easily manipulated and controlled fools, being goyim, through cultural hegemony of narratives. Regular goyim cannot escape that cage of narratives all around him, he is inadvertently susceptible to their influence.
>>544689981If you mean 2022, it was preceded not by 'the last second' but by years: the sabotage of the Minsk agreements, Kyiv's refusal to implement the political part, NATO's eastward expansion, Russia's December proposals on security guarantees, to which the West did not respond substantively. The Istanbul process, which was scuppered. This is not 'the last second,' it is a long chain of events that you simply cut out of the conversation.You write that 'all of this is terribly boring.' Things are boring when the same talking points are repeated without any grounding in facts. If you really want to understand, start not with labels but with chronology: 2014, the coup in Kyiv, the war in Donbas, Minsk, the admissions of Western participants, NATO expansion, December 2021. Then the conversation will become not boring but substantive.
I think it's reasonable to dismiss any argument against Russia if it comes from a Finn or a Pole. For reasons that I cannot explain, their hate for Russia seems to be genetically encoded, they cannot argument in good faith
>>544679573Hard to do that when Russia is conditioned to be paranoid as fuck and Europe is conditioned to be bitch-made and selfish.
>>544679573>The real enemy of Europe is the nigger and North African and pajeetHave you seen the new Russian army.
They would ruin it in less than a year by acting like nigger savages. Let Russia be just an extension of China. It's the perfect end for a washed up empire.
>>544690146All I am saying here is that EU and Russia aren't likely to get along in the near future. And the reasons go deeper than current conflict. We clash almost every century in different shapes and forms and its usually Europe starting this.
>>544690404The real enemy of Europe is the anglo-american-jews
>>544679573The only culture even related to Russians is Central American.Not only that, America did come to the Russians aid in WW2 unlike every other country. Cold War aside (which was cold, no conflict really began.)
>>544689710Name some political leaders who don't lie 24/7.>>544689573Shedding blood to commit a crime makes it no better.It is not a reasonable expectation for criminals to voluntarily give up whatthey took, no.But it should also not be expected for people to accept this behaviour.>>544689663I don't see a solution as things are right now.If there is peace between europe and russia, it is viewed as a threat to america.So it will never happen.They have this area taken over.
>>544689978it was russia who violated the minsk agreement anyway and russia invaded chechnya twice, you lying russian faggot. then you invaded georgia in ukraine. all of these things is what lead to nato expansion. there was no agreement and no treaty that nato would not expand either, but if you feel differently then provide the official proofs, russian nigger :)
>>544690566You're literally arguing with an LLM
>>544690116>local elections in certain areas of DonbasNownow, let's not get ahead of ourselves. You disingenuous fuck, you.. you know damn well that the core mantra of modern europe is an ideology where everything is frozen in place. Nothing is ever allowed to change, everything is precisely the way it's supposed to be. England will keep owning northern ireland forever, brittany in northern france will never become an independent region again, germany is never getting danzig and alsace lorraine back, sweden is never going to get finland back, the u.s. will never give the country back to the indians or the english.. so why should ukraine allow those disgusting russkie traitor fucks to secede? No one else are allowed to change the status quo, so why should the ukies allow it? They had every right to bomb the shit out of those fucking traitors, and that's a fact.
>>544690116Ukraine did everything btw, but rusniggers sabotaged their proxy's side of the deal by refusing to give Ukraine control of the state border.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#Text_of_the_agreementWanna go full schizo again?
@grok, factcheck this >>544690245 bot;>Fact-check of the post. The poster gets the basic chronology partly right but spins it into a one-sided narrative that skips key context, legal realities, and the actual sequence of events.>Causality: The post claims expansion “moved forward, not in response to any actions by Russia.” Correct for the 1999 and 2004 rounds. Later rounds and intensified cooperation with Ukraine/Georgia occurred against a backdrop of Russian actions (Chechnya, Georgia 2008, energy coercion, etc.), but the early post-Cold War enlargement was driven primarily by the applicants’ desire for security guarantees and Western integration, not reactive to Russian invasions of those states.>The poster correctly notes the existence of the 21 Feb 2014 deal and the timeline of early NATO enlargement. The “no agreement / no broken assurances” denial is false on the first point and overstated on the second (verbal assurances existed in the German-unification context but were never formalized into a ban on future enlargement). The “bypassing impeachment” claim is factually accurate as a description of the procedure used. The broader framing that this proves pure Western bad faith while ignoring Yanukovych’s flight, the security collapse, the Rada’s broad support (including from his own party), and the sovereign choice of the joining states is selective. Chronology is not the same as complete causal explanation.
>>544690461We clash with countries, not Europe. Russia always had allies in Europe. Generalisations like this are bad. Current problem is what current dominant force who is picking the fight with Russia this time, is transnational in nature, and comes not from any country of Europe. EU is just obedient extension of this atlantist will. The problem this time is what atlantism taken deep roots and sovereignity of countries there is ceded in part to these ((patrons)).
>>544690821If it was a war between europe and russia,why are only ever america and russia negotiating.I bet europe is more than willing to negotiate with russia.
>>544690551Diplomacy is not domestic politics.We can find a lot of agreements that both parties respect in good faith despite obvious tensions between the two nations. I don't think normalizing dishonesty will benefit us
>>544691115Because you are a US vassal and American leadership is tired of pretending you're not
>>544679657Vice versa thirdie, vice versa
>>544691019In international politics, promises, even if not put on paper, generate expectations. And breaking them destroys trust. This fully applies to the assurances Western leaders gave Soviet leadership in 1990 in the context of German reunification. Yes, they were not formalized as a legally binding treaty. But in politics there is a category of political commitments that are no less important than legal ones. When James Baker said 'not one inch,' and NATO then expanded by thousands of kilometers, that is not a legal violation, but it is political perfidy. And it is precisely that which undermined trust.
>>544690566Technically, the Aegis Ashore system in Romania and Poland cannot intercept the entire Russian nuclear arsenal. But Moscow fears that over time it could be modernized and, in combination with other systems, reduce the effectiveness of a retaliatory strike. This creates an 'illusion of invulnerability' and strengthens the West's temptation to act from a position of strength. Even if this is not the case, the very perception of threat becomes a factor of instability.>GeorgiaThey started it
>>544690566Was it not Kyiv that refused to implement the political part of Minsk - constitutional reform, amnesty, local elections?
>>544679657>I do not think we will ever be able to trust Europe again.Who betrayed who you stupid rusnigger? Europeans opened their asscheeks to your oil despite US saying it was a bad idea. Germany basically fucked their own energy production because they trusted you savages could be trusted to behave like actual human beings. All Europe covered your ass saying Washington was still stucked in the Cold War era even after the invasion of Crimea and Georgia. So who betrayed who?
>>544691115Its a war between the North and South Korea. Apart from that, the orange pedonigger is the most eager to give Russia what it wants.
>>544691668Germany brought that upon themselves.Opening Europe to Russian oil and gas was the only logical choice. North Sea reserves were not enough to sustain long term industrial development. Getting energy from your closest neighbors makes sense. Relying entirely on it like Germany did was a stupid mistake but that doesn't make opening European market to Russian energy a bad decision
>>544690676>England will keep owning northern ireland foreverWhat about the 1998 Belfast Agreement? It provides for the possibility of a referendum on reunification with Ireland. And this is not hypothetical: in 2019 the British Parliament recognized that if a majority in Northern Ireland voted for unification, London would not stand in the way. So ‘forever’ is your fantasy, not a fact.You write: ‘why should Ukraine allow these disgusting Russian traitors to secede?’ And who told you that Russia was seeking secession? Russia sought the implementation of the Minsk agreements, which envisaged a special status for Donbas within Ukraine. It was Kyiv that refused to implement them. It was the West that admitted Minsk was used to prepare for war. And it was precisely after eight years of sabotage and shelling that Russia recognized the independence of the republics. Do not turn the chronology upside down.
>>544691039>We clash with countries, not Europe.Idk, I see a pattern. WWII was the culmination of it. And now Europe showed its true face as well. They will never change, no matter how you treat them. They'll always stab you in the back even if its a "frog - scorpion" kind of situation.
As long as Russia is loyal to the Kremlin there will only be hostility towards the West since the opposite goes against their own principles (being a bunch of authoritarian thieves who feed from the state).
>>544691668You imposed a ban (I mean the European Union) on buying Russian energy. Before that, you punished Russia with all possible sanctions. You mocked the legacy of your predecessors in the EU who concluded profitable contracts with Russia, with the Soviet Union, for the supply of our own energy resources to Central and Western Europe. You laughed at how fun and exciting it was to destroy them. You didn't lift a finger to investigate the terrorist attacks on the Nord Stream gas pipelines. And now, when you are really in a difficult situation – not because of Russia, but because of your own policies and politicians – you desperately look for a scapegoat.You say: 'Germany undermined its own energy production because it believed you barbarians could be trusted to behave like real people.' Germany itself decided to abandon nuclear power and bet on Russian gas. That was its sovereign choice. No one forced it. Moreover, it was the Russian side that for years offered long-term contracts at fixed prices that could have protected Europe from the current price spikes. If Germany is now suffering from high prices, that is the result of its own policy, not of 'betrayal' by Russia.
>>544692026Historically, whenever Russia was poised to become a strong continental power, Europe went to war with it to prevent its natural dominance on the continent.
>>544691225Howcanwe be a vassal?Trump says europe it totally taking advantage of the US.Us being a vassal really sounds like the opposite.
>>544692075That's very cute HIVan but everything you wrote in the first parragraph happened when you made the "brilliant" choice of launching a 3 days SMO and throw thousands of your own people to the meatgrinder, and now you have the gall to come here and twist the chronology? You little faggot. Your postmodernist pilpul doesn't hold on to scrutiny. Mfers always see themselves like victims just like NIGGERS. Its not that they're savages that still cling to the idea of being the USSR again and see nazis everywhere, except when they're spewing propaganda in /pol/. There they say nazis are based actually and Russia is trad, cath and white, meanwhile nevermind they have allied themselves with every thirdie african and muslim shithole. I hate chinks, but I'll live to see them own your retarded populace, and quite frankly, it might be for the better
>>544692075America imposed a ban by blowing up the pipeline.Yes europe is continuing it, if EU don't want to talk to russia, I would immediately criticise it.>>544691116Sometimes you are cought between bigger military powers.Then you have to say what it takes to get by.Normal.
>>544692288That logic applies to all countries
>>544679657Its because you're country behaves like Niggers. You all collapsed in the 90s, and rather than accept your position, taking your licks and actually fix your dysfunctional system, your cried at the evil NATO and tried to take back territories so you can LARP as a major power again. You're going to collapse again and its all because you couldn't stop chimping out. You aren't any better than the Niggers.
>>544692288Unpopular opinion, but I think Jews are right about them - Europe needs multiculturalism to tone down their superiority complex. Once their demography changes maybe their policies will change too? Right now France does not have time to think about Russia, if all of Europe is like that, there will be peace.
>>544692288In this particular case, you kinda brought it on yourselves. Should have chilled for another decade at least. But then Putin should have left power around 2014.
>>544692775I'm glad your showing your true colors vodkanigger
>>544679573>I still believe Europe and Russia could end up as friendThat is not possible, because that old Russia no longer exists. Picrel.
>>544692873*Vid-rel - the context of this meme.
>>544692775I believe this too, it's a genetic NW European thing to be an arrogant prickThen you understand that everything that G-d allows was for a reason
>>544692455Trump talk nonsense all the time to galvanize it's supporters. American geopolitical game goes well beyond the Republican/Democrat alternance. You have around 40 American military bases in your country, you're constantly pushed into submission by Americans, against your own interests. You are the very definition of an American vassal state. You fooling yourself if you believe the illusion of sovereignty they dangle in front of your eyes
>>544692577You accuse me of 'rewriting the chronology,' but you yourself start the story from 2022. Where is 2014? Where is the state coup in Kyiv? Where is the war against its own citizens in Donbas? Where are the Minsk agreements, which, as Merkel and Hollande admitted, were used to prepare Ukraine for war? Where is NATO's expansion in 1999 and 2004? Where are the assurances of 1990? You cut everything that happened before 2022 out of the picture, and then you are surprised that I am 'rewriting the chronology.' No, it is you who are cutting it out.You write that 'everyone always sees themselves as victims.' That is a convenient trick: accuse your interlocutor of victimhood so as not to answer their arguments. Russia does not see itself as a victim. Russia points to facts: broken promises, the expansion of military infrastructure near its borders, the sabotage of peace agreements, the deaths of people in Donbas. This is not victimhood. These are arguments. If you find them unconvincing, refute them with facts, not labels.
>>544692604I don't think we were in this type of situation where buying time to prepare for war was the only sensible choice, but maybe I'm wrong
>>544692577You are lumping everything together. Russia does not 'see Nazis everywhere.' Russia points to concrete manifestations of neo-Nazism in Ukraine: the honoring of the SS Galicia division, marches in honor of Bandera, the ban on the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the rewriting of history. This is not fiction. These are facts confirmed by official reports, including Western ones. If you think otherwise, refute them.
>>544679573bro we nurtured russia for 2 decades by opening up traderussia happily threw it all away for its primal urgeslet's try again in 20 years after putin is dead
544679573 (OP)> African come on boat.? The easiest way for a nigger to get into Europe is on a U.S. military base.
>>544680937ah right it is an incredibly flat place
>>544692604You say: 'Europe continues to do this.' It continues, only it calls it sanctions, energy transition and 'solidarity.' The result is the same: European households and businesses pay more, industry loses competitiveness, and Washington sells its liquefied natural gas. If this is the 'European choice,' then Brussels should explain its consequences to its own citizens, not look for scapegoats in Moscow.And finally. If the EU does not want to negotiate with Russia, that is its right. But the criticism should be directed not only at Brussels, but also at those who prevent it from negotiating. Russia has not refused dialogue. We offered security guarantees, long-term energy contracts, and peace initiatives. If Europe prefers confrontation, that is its choice. But then it should not be surprised that the price of that choice grows every month.
>>544692775Your vision of peace is a bit concerning
>>544693037Yes, that is genetical. I don't think demographics shift will change this as long as same people are in power, but a situation like in France could force so much problems on them that they would have no resources to deal with anything else. Right now the most warmongering countries in EU are the most homogenous ones. Once they no longer are, they might become less concerned with things outside their borders.
I love how all it takes is having 'nigger' in a post for you all to fall for and engage with blatantly obvious russian propaganda
>>544691917Everything wrote was factual. Europe's and the west's in general, core ideology is that everything is set in stone and isn't allowed to change, so fuck you and fuck those donbass niggers.
>>544679657>Too much bad bloodMaybe stop acting like white niggers, or is that too hard?
>>544693132'We nurtured Russia by opening trade' is an arrogant framing, not a fact. Trade was not a gift or an educational measure. Europe bought Russian energy because it was profitable: cheap gas kept German industry afloat for decades, and the Russian market was lucrative for European companies. It was a mutually beneficial deal, not a favor from one side and gratitude from the other.'Let's try again in 20 years, after Putin's death' is not a strategy but a hope for a change of label. Russia's policy does not reduce to one person, just as the policy of any major country does not. If in 20 years the West again offers not equal cooperation but mentorship and the expansion of military infrastructure toward our borders, the result will be the same. If it offers real security guarantees and mutual consideration of interests, dialogue is possible. But to begin it with the thesis 'we nurtured you and you failed to meet expectations' means again speaking from a position of superiority. And from such a position, no agreement can be reached.
>>544693285Well, its concerning for Europeans, but I am not concerned with their well-being. Every black immigrant in EU is 100,000$ less they can spend on war with us.
>>544693391Slavs are spiritual niggers It's like asking a dog to stop acting like a dog, it makes no sense
>>544693403true
>>544680477>We want nothing to do with youExcept all the people fleeing and getting shot like the comment you are responding to said. Did you forget already? Or maybe ignored? Please explain.
>>544693300Plus they will slowly mix with the immigrants and their toxic Germanic genes will be diluted. In few hundred years they might be more normal.
>>544679657You cannot trust the European, they behavior has been completed jewedThey are a lost cause
>>544693419You're not at war with Europe, you're at war with your neighbor Ukraine, which you invaded.And ''humbleness'' is the reason why so many European countries are in the shitter in terms of immigration and faggotry, not arrogance.You're acting like a kike
>>544681082>I visited was a few months ago. But it was workLol after one gorrillion sanctions this is still allowed? I'm so tired.>>544681707Only country bumpkins use gas heating here kek.
>>544693321>Europe's and the west's in general, core ideology is that everything is set in stone and isn't allowed to changeErm, except for Kosovo. That can change, because reasons.
>>544693746Appeasing Islam is a core EVROPEAN value
>>544679657Not being trusted by Russia is a guarantee of good character considering what fucking cunts you are.
>>544693671I'd point to greed for cheap labor as the main drive for mass immigration, humbleness is not a European value
>>544693575I don't really want to see them disappear, but if that is what it takes to make them normal, then so be it. That might help them too. Right now they are lost and depressed, they don't even want to have kids. But maybe demographic change could make them less uptight. Look at South Italians. They are very mixed, but much friendlier people than North Italians. Same with the Spanish. In Europe the more South you go, the better the people are.
>>544693783Core european values are talmudic, do not ever forget that.
>>544693826American global hegemony is coming to an end. When Americans eventually focus their ressources on the American continent everyone in Europe will stop acting like a cunt. Give it time
>>544679573No thanks, Russia has already Chechnia with the same problems.
>>544693250Would russia negotiate with europe if europe was occupying russian land?
>>544693809Note ''Humbleness''There is a ton of factors to it in reality, but arrogance isn't one of them.Europe is quite naive thinking brown shits and muzzies could ever assemble into western society though.
>>544694171Donbas is not your land you psychopath It couldn't be any less of your landThe people there hate you
>>544694245>europe is quite naive thinking brown shits and muzzies could ever assemble into western society thoughThat's not naiveté - it's the arrogance of thinking that your culture is so superior that others will choose to assimilate No Norwegian ever thought that maybe Sandniggers are happy with their culture
>>544694245French assimilation model was somewhat successful before things got completely out of control.
By the way current dominant panEU ideology of atlanticism was created by jews, same as entire of cold war against Russia. Bernard Mannes Baruch - jew who coined the cold war word and Walter Lippmann - jew who created atlanticist ideology and basically the ideological creator of EU.As always, jews fight eternal war against russian people, and european goyim are just manipulated cattle in that matter. They marched to war in 1812, 1870, 1914, 1939 and on many other occasions obediently current situation isn't any different.
>>544679657Good. Europe can’t be trusted
>>544694310It's silly to phrase it as arrogance. It's stupid, short-sighted, and naive.>No Norwegian ever thought that maybe Sandniggers are happy with their cultureNo Norwegian think that highly of themselves.There is too much ''Jante'' in our culture yet to this day, sadly.I can't speak for Europe as a whole on this matter, but the average Euro is not arrogant, the faggots in Brussels does not represent the people at all.>>544694357Yeah, well that is what happens at scale.There is a mathematical equation to this.
>>544693746Yes but everyone must stay the same. Again, fuck you and fuck those donbass niggers.
>>544694255There is nothing wrong with supporting an ally that is invaded.
>>544694974Cool, start by asking Turkey to leave Northern Cyprus
