THIS ENTIRE TIME WE COULD RUN OUR CARS ON FUCKING WATERI WANT A REFUND FOR EVERY GALLON OF GAS IVE EVER HAD TO BUY
>>544800688everyone knew that after Stan Meyer's assassination, but they were too timid and meek to demand the government find out who really killed him.
>>544800688>Filling up a hydrogen-powered BMW model—such as the BMW iX5 Hydrogen concept—costs approximately $216 in regions like California, based on current retail rates of about $36 per kilogram and a 6 kg tank capacity.lmfao you retards
So if we can power cars with water then we should be able to power our houses with water too right? We have unlimited water. Why am I paying faggots $400/mo for utilities and have to drive up and down streets with wires hanging everywhere when I can have a hydrogen generator attached to my house?
>>544800688Hydrogen is not water.And our cars with combustion engines can't burn hydrogen.
>>544800880Thats california retard they have a water shortage there because gavin newscum is retarded.
>>544800917its part of water basically the same thing
>>544800688Anyone know how good the "fuel cell" technology BMW has. I don't care about the rest of the car or components just the actual (fuel cell).
>>544800688some of us have been doing it for years
>>544800975It’s not, hydrogen is pretty finicky to deal with. Lots of issues that need work arounds
>>544800917Ackshually
>>544800935Oh well how about NYC>It would actually be impossible to fill up a BMW iX5 Hydrogen in New York City because there are currently no active retail hydrogen refueling stations in the region.Oh how about DC/Virginia>In Virginia, it is the exact same scenario as New York City: it would cost nothing because there are zero active, public retail hydrogen refueling stations in the entire state.Oh hmm how about Texas?>The Hydrogen ProtoHub at the University of Texas at Austin operates as the only publicly available hydrogen fueling station in Texas. Built primarily for research, demonstration, and localized fleet testing, it proves that the technology can function in the state, but it is a standalone destination rather than a usable networkkek, you're retarded.
>>544800901Shit niggy there's these thing called solar panels you can put on ur house right now that harness energy from sunlight, you dont even have to collect or channel water or nothin. Done that yet?
>>544800880>>544800901These cars aren’t really expected to generate any revenue. They’re nothing but a subsidy grab by BMW (the government funded that project with 273 million euros in order to make sure Germany is „technology leader“ (JFL @ that bc idk how Germany is supposed to compete with China speed) in fuel cells. Doesn’t matter if the cars are returning any profits because the fuel cells tech will be available for other use cases as well.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rfx7ksQGAQ
her pants are too long. very distracting and unnatural
>>544800880>>544801755These cars aren’t seriously expected to be bought by anyone. They’re nothing but a subsidy grab by BMW (the government funded that project with 273 million euros in order to make sure Germany is „technology leader“ (JFL @ that bc idk how Germany is supposed to compete with China speed) in fuel cells. Doesn’t matter if the cars are returning any profits because the fuel cells tech will be available for other use cases as well.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rfx7ksQGAQ [Embed]
>>544800688It has been invented dozens of times but glowies kept killing everyone involved.
>>544800688>Without heavy government subsidies, separating hydrogen from water remains fundamentally uncompetitive against fossil-fuel methods
>>544801755Solar panels are only supplemental. And poor at it, at that. They aren't worth the dirt needed to cover it up later on.IDIOT
>>544800688I'll believe it when I see it.It's retarded to think the government or whoever is trying to hide alternatives to fossil fuels. We're going to run out of that stuff by the end of the century and they know it.
>>544800688I remember opie and anothony doing a bit on all of the inventors that were killed over the years when they made public their hydrogen/water powered engines.
>>544802445so they can drill oil from 4000 ft below the fucking ocean, pipe it back underwater hundreds of miles to a refinery (pic related) but they cant separate hydrogen from water (electrolysis)? bullshit nigger
>>544800688the age of HORSE is upon us
>>544802582what would really be interesting is finding out whats powering all those UFOs they recovered.
>>544800688>let's put a literal bomb inside of every carthe lulz will be spectacular, btw dumbass it's not running on water rather h2o is the primary byproduct of a hydrogen power alongside waste heat. Producing the liquid hydrogen requires electrolysis to split water molecules into their constituent parts and requires absurd amounts of energy. You think EV grid strain is bad just wait...
>>544800688>OUR CARSbuses here run on hidrogen, man.
>>544802183Thanks to that the south Carolina factory is the only one that actually makes money for BMW. I believe they laid off about 6000 on the Europe side this year and have a hiring freeze in effect ja? The capacity for the electric plant in a different spot in South Carolina as well had it's projections cut by 75% pre launch as well ja ja?
>>544802582electricity nigger, you need shit ton of electricity for it, and where would it all come from, besides electric motors already exist without wasting extra water that is in a limited supply by itself
>>544800688this is only for the wealthy, anon. poors will still be required to drive gasoline cars so the wealthy big oil execs can stay wealthy.
>>544802582It's called EROI. Easily exploitable fossil fuel deposits yield 50-100 times more energy than is consumed for the extraction proces. Electrolysis uses significantly more energy than it produces in the form of liquid hydrogen. I swear to god you people are genuinely retarded.
>>544804003I mean, it currently does. Is part of their scope to make the process more efficient?
>>544800917>our cars with combustion engines can't burn hydrogenhttps://youtu.be/M70bSnswPP4https://youtu.be/wxfo-w0ptEohttps://youtu.be/bRatjlvFyQQ
>>544801252muh galifornia:-DDDD
>>544800688>we could run our cars on fucking waterSome of you niggers should take apart an engine to figure out how it works. Hell, watch a video to figure out how it works.
>>544800975No. You need to take water and use a lot of energy to split it up into hydrogen and oxygen. Try it at home. Go make your own.
>>544800880there is no scientific way they could ever be cheaper than an EV, mile for mile.any way you could possibly conceive of making the hydrogen, you'd get more miles out of the same spent energy in an EV, and there's no way around it, scientifically speaking.you will always need energy to make hydrogen, process which isn't the least efficient, so it has losses. if you use the very same energy in an EV you just drive more.it's as simple as, there's no way around it. you cannot, ever, beat EVs, they're the epitome of efficiency. it will always be cheaper to drive EV, you will always pay the least per mile with an EV.
>>544800688we now use a battery to power a fuel cell to provide fuel for a combustion engine. the battery is charged by a coal fired power station. maxwell would slice these fuckers up with a zombie knife.
>>544804172It's thermodynamics, even if it was 100% effecient it still would not be competitive to fossil fuels. Nothing competes without earth's billion year old solar battery (fossil fuels). If we're trying to simply get off fossil fuels battery breakthroughs like the new solid state batteries being developed in Korea and China are the obvious way forward for passenger cars. For things like long haul trucking and giant busses Hydrogen's energy density might make sense if the safety factors can be mitigated. The amout of liquid hydrogen required for a 50k lb 18 wheeler to drive 400 miles is spectacularly dangerous.
>>544800688Ok, their is a reason these type of car isn't a thing though it may seem good on paper. I'm sure that car makes a big boom boom. Pre IRA approved.All jokes aside I wonder what kind of system they got this to work without the possibility of it exploding.
>>544804386What if you had a nuclear powered hydrogen plant that way the transmission of energy has the least distance to travel as well as being at a single water source as both need it? Isn't nuclear the god tier efficiency level?
>>544804326it is banal, you get water, perform electrolysis which consumes electricity, and it splits the water into hydrogen and oxygen. you collect the hydrogen, burn it in engine, it converts back to water releasing the energy you put in basically, with a lot of losses.if you instead spend the same electricity into an EV, you just drive for longer. it's literally that easy.hydrogen cars don't run on water, they run on hydrogen, which you need to make. the make part takes energy. that energy, you get more miles if you charge your EV battery with it, than you get miles by making hydrogen, and burning it in car engine.
>>544800688There's no such thing as a gas shortage, man! It's all fake. The oil companies control everything. Like, I heard about this guy who invented a car that runs on water, man! It's got a fiberglass, aircooled engine and it runs on water!
>>544804441>The amout of liquid hydrogen required for a 50k lb 18 wheeler to drive 400 miles is spectacularly dangerous.Sign me up to be the first trucker driving a hydrogen rig then, this would possibly be the single and only way to get me back into the labor force.
>>544802511>Solarbut the scam worked. CA being probably the first. They've taken the rates up to half-a-buck-a-kilo now while the early adaptors (2012 or so) got subsidized panels locked in $0.10/kilo. Then the law was enacted requiring all new builds to have panels on them. And so on, and so forth. All these dimwits recently found out that in order to be independent from the grib *gasp* the system needs *another gasp* batteries. batteries cost *gasp* $20-30k.$20-30k/cost-of-kilo = break even in 10 years then battery back dies and needs replacement.What do I see now almost universally? That's right: tesla battery packs!And that's the scam (one of many). Along with the car.
>>544804497>What if you had a nuclear powered hydrogen plantyou'd drop the hydrogen, and use the electricity made by the nuclear power plant to fill your EV battery -> more miles for same generated energy by the nuclear plant.always.there's no scientific way around it.ever.
>>544804386Exept when copper and other resource prices keep climbing they will have to look for other alternatives
>>544800779>demand the governmentMe no believe that the government never responded to my petition. I voted harder than ever for them.On a serious note do you not have any understanding at all of how the government works?
>>544804563...but why male models?
>>544804563Tradeoff with batteries is scarcity of rare earth, range/towing, and waste. Tradeoff with oil is bargaining with goat fuckers (we'd still need plastics but not having to deal with the fuel components would bankrupt them).Now if you could figure out solid state capacitors and something other than lithium to store the energy in a cell id buy that for a dollar.
>>544800688The ones who invent water engines keep having mysterious accidents and in an unrelated note their research also goes missing.
>>544804386Just crunch the numbers again
>>544800975Bleach is just table salt with extra oxygen, you should try having some.
>>544804729there's enough copper for everyone to have EV on the planet.even if, they can use aluminium for distribution of power. the lines already exist anway, it's called the power grid.cables are competing with full delivery and distribution network for a dangerously flamable gas. they always win for cost.do you even know how much a hydrogen approved truck even costs? to deliver one load to one station? compared to like ... fucking wires lol, you run once and they are good forever
>>544804441>The amout of liquid hydrogen required for a 50k lb 18 wheeler to drive 400 miles is spectacularly dangerous.As far as I can tell, the idea is to have a conversion plant on board that extracts hydrogen out of water before feeding it into the engine. At least it's one of the idea surrounding hydrogen-fueled engines.
>>544800688this is gonna get shut down and everyone involved is gonna get in a car accident and die a dogs death
>>544804803>Tradeoff with batteries is scarcity of rare earth, range/towing, and wastenonsense, sodium batteries have no rare earth and will be cheap as chips. EV tech and batteries can only improve. the rare earth thing is propaganda, and they're recycled anyway. and soon to be replaced.they're so cheap and available that EV industry isn't even in a hurry to replace them with sodium. because batteries are already cheap enough and long lasting enough. modern EVs have lifetime batteries, never ever do they "consume", to the point that matters. after hundreds of thousands of miles they still have 85-90% initial capacity.EV batteries are solved for most part, both on cost and materials and reliability. and capacity si already good enough for most people, and charghing times are like 10 minutes or something. it's pretty much done now, but will only get better from now on anyway
>>544804882>the cars will magically produce hydrogen themselves If you're going to put a Mr. Fusion in the trunk why not just consume the electricity directly and skip all the retarded hydrogen bullshit
>>544802552They need to stop trying to make money off it and spread the blueprints far and wide anonymously. They keep getting killed by the government assassins pretending to be investors.
>>544804826it's not even about crunching numbers, it's basic scientific fact. energy conversions have losses. electricity to split water into hydrogen + oxygen has serious losses. electrolysis has some 30-40% losses. what you put in, you get 30-40% less in hydrogen as energy.let alone the carnot cycle for combustion engines, which further fucks that figure up, worse than electrolysis.where electricity to direct motion is like over 90% efficient already. it's not even a contest. it's not even a fucking discussion if it wasn't for big oil propaganda with hydrogen to get you to pay for their magic product
>>544800688This is because of the jews. The synagogue of satan, the khazars, the ashkenazis, those who call themselves jews but are not. Those who surround the jewish cabal as well. This entire cohort, some 20 million or so, needs to be destroyed and Syria-Palestina restored to the way Hadrian had it. These filthy rat vermin kikes have been tolerated in the West by the White Men of the West and the White Men of the West are getting punishment for tolerating the jew rather than doing the right thing and destroying the jews utterly and to the last.The cars have been able to get over 100mpg for some time, and coupled with hybrid, even more than that. We all know the jews with their coin clipped printed fiat federal reserve note shekels have royally fucked the entire country into oblivion.The White Men of the West must choose to end the time of the jew and cleanse this planet of the demonic jewish beasts and prevent the Earth from being terraformed into hell.
>>544800688she cute
>>544805211>big oil propagandaBig oil convincing everyone to pursue a technology that has zero chance of actuslly working tracks perfectly kek, previously the big idea was algae biofuels
>>544804386
>>544805347they're bleeding hard these days with EVs, some people even completely sidestep the energy market and power the cars with solar, which makes the beast screech in pain.it needs some product to sell you, they're desperate.you shouldn't have energy freedom as far as they are concerned, you should pay them. how dare you think you can drive without paying them lol
>>544805391sure, go to closest hydrogen cloud to fill up your car. or run a pipe into the sunand even if I were to entertain your sci-fi brainrot, you'd use up the local oxygen and lock it as water, with hydrogen you bring in from outside Earth.
>>544805391Helium makes up 25% of the entire universe and yet we are facing severe shortages of it here on Earth. Curious. I wonder why that might be (take a deep breath and ponder it).
>>544800917We do have hydrogen combustion engines that are very similar to diesel engines, though.The problem with hydrogen is that it takes a lot of electricity to split water, and then you have to transport and store the hydrogen which is notoriously leak-prone.Also, if we started splitting water on a massive global scale, we might increase oxygen concentrations in the atmosphere to the extent that insects start to grow larger.
>>544804386It's only this way as long as you keep calculating the cost of electricity withing the current technoparadigm, the paradigm in which the greenies live is that you will cover everything in solar and wind and the electricity will be effectively free cause alternative plants make more energy that is used all the time and some of it that cannot be stored has to be dumped anyway so when there's no reason not to spend it on making hydrogen as you won't run out of capacity unlike batteries ie if you filled your battery you will waste energy from then on, but with hydrogen you can always squeeze a few more atms into the tank no big deal.Also it's because hydrogen is so efficient per weight comparing to batteries that everyone is seeing potential in it: you could build a hydrogen car that shits on both conventional and EV in terms of range, but if ground vehicles may never become economically feasible, then with aircrafts it is not so. If there are ever commercial electric flying vehicles they will 100% be flying on hydrogen cause carryying those batteries will waste more energy than those extra 30-40% it would take you to turn water into hydrogen
>>544800880>approx. $216So, it's less than diesel?
>>544806467Comparing apples to apples, golf TDI has roughly a 15 gallon tank and gets roughly 40 mpg. At current prices that's about 100 bucks to drive 600 miles so yes it is still much better than this hydrogen idiocy even during a shortage.
>>544801184Kill yourself tranny. You lost
>>544800688you can do it. the trick is to add sugra to the water and rubbing alcohol. you need 1 llb of sugar and 1 quart of alcohol for every gallon of water. the trick is you have to make sure you leave like half a tank of fuel in so the engine gets acclimated to the water mix.I fill up my tank for about $15 and my range is 350 miles.
>>544800688You can't start running cars on fresh water retard.We'll all die of dehydration in months.Thats why they kill people who push the idea.Make a car that runs on salt water though and you're officially king of the world.
>>544800880How many dollars per mile traveled?
>>544804003>>544804172>>544804441>>544804593people survived without gasoline engines actually.fuck you and your gay wars and your fiat scam dollars.
>>544800880Not even a problem. You can use extremely cheap mass produced ion exchange membranes to reduce cost of electrolysis and crack it on fuel site extremely cheaply.
>>544800688Hydrogen isn't cheap, this will never work. It's a pain in the arse to extract.
>>544802582Separating hydrogen from water is easy. You can do it with stuff you probably have within 20 feet of you now. But it's expensive (energy-intensive) compared to other fuels, and handling the hydrogen to use it for practical purposes is cumbersome and expensive itself.
>>544808969If you want to live in energy poverty that's your choice, just don't get mad when I use your corpse for biofuel
>>544806026>Also, if we started splitting water on a massive global scale, we might increase oxygen concentrations in the atmosphere to the extent that insects start to grow larger.Not remotely a concern, especially if the hydrogen is burned in engines. There's about three pounds of oxygen piled up over ever square inch of Earth's surface.
>>544809138>apply electric current to waterwow. yea maybe another 1000 years we'll have the tech to do this
>>544809851You can try this yourself. Split some water via electrolysis and collect the hydrogen. Total up the hydrogen you get and figure out how much it cost you to make.
>>544804386EV's are not tenable as a gross function of weight. A hydrogen cell weighs little. The gross weight problem makes EV's produce up to 1000X the pollution of normal weight cars through tire wear.
>>544810026By this retarded line of thinking we can't have anything as the cost of setting up a mine, refinery and fab is too much for any one person.
>>544810832There is no gain in efficiency if you scale electrolysis up. It requires the same energy input per unit hydrogen regardless of scale. By quantifying things yourself at a small scale, you can verify that it is not cost-competitive with other fuels.
>>544800975it's cost more electricity than you get in hydrogen when extracting it from water. the only other place it comes from is oil well and guess what gasoline is made ofthis shit ain't gonna work
>>544800688>Datacenters cause water supply privatization >You now pay more for water than gas to "go green"Lol
>>544811039You can mass produce cheap ion exchange membranes and maintain a low pressure storage system with a compression system on site that is as needed and even passively feed the stock with solar and adjust for throughput from the grid as needed. Something like that could push refueling down to $4-6 dollars a kilogram. Slightly more expensive than charging an EV at home. EV's are going to be a problem because they produce massive pollution through tire wear and they cannot scale for adoption. The inputs to produce them are 6X ICE to begin with.
>>544800688Hydrogen cars have been around since the 90s. Jeremy Clarkson featured one on early top gear
>>544800880Just use your tap water bro!
>>544800935I will commit ecoterrorism before I ever allow California to touch the Great Lakes.
>>544810986Wave action and currents supply what would be near-infinite power every second of every day. jews.
>>544800688>THIS ENTIRE TIMEchecked, I remember back around 1990 in Arizona a company working on hydrogen fuel cell vehiclesOld idea: nobody on /pol/ read Popular Science back in the seventies?The main problem with hydrogen as a power source isn't so much the vehicle / fuel cell tech, but the supply & storage infrastructure. Municipal and civil engineering at scale, cost (and safety)
>>544804837I'll make sure to hold my breath when eating fries from now on
>>544800880That's just economy of scale. Most people don't use hydrogen so nobody makes it.You can literally make hydrogen gas by just sticking wires from your wall socket into a bucket of water. Oxygen will bubble at the cathode and hydrogen will bubble at the anode because it's so shrimple.
>>544800688This has been around for over a decade. These cars are EVs that make electricity using the hydrogen. The tech never caught on because it released at the same time as battery powered EVs, which won out. Gasoline is still better.
>>544800688IF WE SELL YOU THE CURE THEN HOW CAN WE CHARGE YOU FOR THE TREATMENT?
>>544802445True, the fossil fuel industry is famously not subsidized
>>544800779100 replies and not a single (You) for fpbp and thread ender
>>544804386H2 wins on heavy long distance trucks and cargo ships
>>544816144We were all waiting for you
>>544800688There's all kinds of alternatives. The problem is when people go to patient their idea they get slapped with a national security secracy order and then kill themselves if they break it.
>>544800688I was told this is not economically viable. What changed?
>>544800688This old grift again? "Hydrogen" cars have been a thing for decades, there's a reason why it never became practical (protip: It doesn't work)
>>544800688Next time they should hire a man to promote their new car instead of a gay high schooler
>>544812595That's unrelated to the economics of hydrogen as an internal combustion fuel for vehicles.
>>544813450>You can literally make hydrogen gas by just sticking wires from your wall socket into a bucket of water.And how much does this cost you per unit hydrogen?
>>544817207>That's unrelated to the economics of hydrogen as an internal combustion fuel for vehicles.Wrong. Nearly unlimited super cheap power by the ocean would allow endless hydrogen via hydrolysis.The jews really got to you.
>>544800688>cars can run on waterthey're called boats homo
>>544817284Regardless of how much electricity you have, it is less efficient to use it to generate hydrogen, then burn the hydrogen to power vehicles, than to use the electricity to directly power vehicles.
>>544817377>Regardless of how much electricity you have, it is less efficient to use it to generate hydrogen, then burn the hydrogen to power vehicles, than to use the electricity to directly power vehicles.Possible. Hydrogen is a pain in the ass due to leaking and even at extreme pressures its so not-dense its annoying. The handy thing about hydrogen is that existing ICE engines could be converted starving the god damned jews out of revenue.
>>544803599you're so fucking cringe
>>544801224Did you even read what you posted, you moron?
>>544816144"""Replies"""
>>544817549>Possibleunavoidable unless you can rewrite the laws of thermodynamics. And if you can do that, internal combustion engines are probably not much of a concern.
>>544817983>unavoidable unless you can rewrite the laws of thermodynamics. And if you can do that, internal combustion engines are probably not much of a concern.Not really. Things on paper is one things, billions of existing engines that can be reused is another. Sometimes getting things done more efficiently means leveraging whats there rather than letting jews keep selling the next thing.
>>544812595Yes and it would be more efficient to use that juice to charge a battery for.an EV than it would be to use it to make hydrogen. Do you get it now?
>>544800688you couldn'tTHEY could.slaves must make do with what brings them profits, and big oil was profitable.alternative post:>runs on waterno, runs on asphalt, its not a boat.
>>544800688this isn't new shit. they've been regularly killing independent scientists and inventors for years to hide it and cover it up until they could guarantee sole ownership for the benefit and profit of existing power structures.
>>544818344You dont get it.The point is there isnt enough power deliver or batteries out there to magically let the jews sell the entire planet new cars. Also heave machinery and most of what is diesel today wont magically go electric.The hydrogen could be used in existing retrofitted designs. Why would you be against multiple sources of power? And why dont you get just starting at a paper full of jewish physics doesnt make it real.
>>544813450Exactly this. The more hydrogen gets adopted, the more production scales up and the cheaper it becomes. I'm surprised it's even as affordable as it is now, considering hardly anyone uses it. One of its biggest advantages is that existing diesel engine technology can be adapted to run on hydrogen, which could make the transition much easier for industries heavily reliant on diesel. JCB has already developed working hydrogen combustion engines after investing in both EV and hydrogen technology and finding EV massively unsuitable, proving it's a viable alternative, especially for heavy machinery Obviously, production costs and infrastructure are still obstacles, but these things improve with investment and demand. It might not replace petrol and diesel tomorrow, but dismissing hydrogen because it isn't competitive today is ridiculously short-sighted. It could genuinely transform the fuel market.
>>544800688how long until we get a car hindenburg?
Let me know when they can fly.
>>544818258>Not really.Yes, really. It's written on paper because it's how things work in real life. It sets hard limits that can't even be reached by practical technology. The efficiency of real-world electrical motors and batteries used in electric cars now is greater than what can be attained by any theoretical technology that involves using the electricity instead to generate hydrogen, and then use the hydrogen in an internal combustion engine to move a car. It's a fundamentally less efficient way to go about doing things. Internal combustion engines are attractive when the fuel they run on is much cheaper than its energy content. If you need to use electricity to generate your fuel, you might well just use the electricity.
