Some people point to the French revolution of 1789 or to the many revolutions of the 19th century (in particular the revolutions of 1848)Many people will point to the end of WW2 as the beginning of the decline, but of course without WW1 there's no WW2. But just before WW1, in 1914, is when Europe reached it's maximum control of the world. Did the Jews try to stop this by artificially creating WW1 and trying to stop European dominance? Are there any good books on this?
>>544827638>pic some will tell you that the fall of rome was because of christianitybut, the reason constantine converted is exactly because his soldiers were victorious as christians (XP- in this sign conquer)and the germanics that rome fell to were themselves christian - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaric_I
>>544827638Let them eat cake
>>544827638you also have to question, what exactly "fell" when rome did?it was only the western half of the empire that fell, the less developed part at thatthe capital had already been moved to constantinopoleand there was plenty of degenerate shit that the romans were doing, such as their emperors have tranny "wives"- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporustheir priests being trannies- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galliand their gods being trannies too- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphroditusif that were going on today, you would say that's "fallen". how can something that was already "fallen" "fall"?
>>544827857>>544827963I don't think anyone says that the West fell when the Western Roman Empire fell. It's obvious that the Romans were complete degenerates and that Marcus Aurelius was the last normal Roman Emperor. Early modern period Europe is vastly superior over the Roman Empire and you could argue that because of the middle ages we can think of ourselves are "Europeans" and "white". I never liked the Roman thought of race and how everyone can become a Roman citizen.
>>544827638>Some people point to the French revolution of 1789the french revolution did shake societies a lotbut before them there were many others>the many revolutions of the 19th century (in particular the revolutions of 1848)even before thatOliver Cromwell, (born 1599) cut off the head of the king, claiming authority from "the people", he b& christmas, and he invited the jews that had been expelled from england- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_CromwellJan Hus (born 1369) also led a cultural revolution, that attempted to overthrow catholicism and the established orderin fact, martin luther famously succeed in that yet few in the west would consider this a "fall"but look at the churches in scandinavia todaythey all allow for priestess, and perform gay marriages. they even welcome trannies
>>544827638"cyrus the great" is what you're looking for.
Social media. Also dating apps
>>544827638>When did the decline of the West begin?17th century. John Locke was demonic. The fact that it's called the "Enlightenment" is the greatest anti-Christian psyop of all time.
>>5448276381440, gutenberg.
>>544828172Well after Cromwell died the monarchy was eventually restored in England, Hus is not even worth mentioning and you could actually argue that Protestantism contributed a lot to the development of European dominance>>544828228The West ended way before the late 2000s and early 2010s
>>544827638>Many people will point to the end of WW2 as the beginning of the decline, but of course without WW1 there's no WW2.i don't think that's a fair comparisonWW1 was fought over empire / balance of powersthe reason why WW2 is different is because it shapes our current paradigm to normies (and politically correct people in general) the bad guys aren't just bad, they're "nazies" (example: putin is trying to "de-nazify" ukraine)people they don't like aren't just tyrants, they're "hitler" (example: putin or donald trump)questioning the holocaust myth isn't just historic revisionism, it's "wanting to kill 6,000,000 jews"etc it's why normies think that the communists are good guys "hurr they helped us defeat hitler !"it's not even the mentality of the cold war, where the commies were the bad guysit's a literal regression. a crystallization of a time long gone
So you think the people responsible are Locke, Montesquieu, Voltaire, Diderot, Rousseau, etc?
>>544827638With the Edict of MilanOnce whites started tolerating Jewish religions it was over
>>544827638>Did the Jews try to stop this by artificially creating WW1 and trying to stop European dominancethe jews enjoyed plenty of rights in the west, actually. including in the USAit's though their alliances with the west that they even created israel (the balfour declaration)they have been screwing the west over, don't get me wrongbut i don't think that jews like henry kissenger, for example, were actually anti-american or anything to some extend it's incompetence there are rich jews who are spending their family wealth, but they never would have earned it themselves, so naturally they make one bad move after anotherother jews thing that they can make a pivot to china, or india as their new superpower to leech off of while others think they can still control the west (despite the blatant decline) and through it the world. but i think wars like that against iran prove that this is a miscalculation
>>5448276381945
>>544827638>Are there any good books on thisi'm sure there are but honestly you can even just ask AI to tell you in board terms the history of nationsfor example, when was it founded, when was it's golden age, when did it collapse, etci think you will see patterns emerging it's not only the west that "has collapsed", china had plenty of dynasties and "centuries of humiliation"the muslims used to have caliphates, the egyptians, the you name it there's a meme saying that "strong men create good times -> good times create weak men -> weak men created hard times -> hard times create strong men" and the cycle repeats i wouldn't say it's quite that simple, but it is one of the factors in this equation that we find ourselves in
Napoleon. The French revolution was the cancer, Napoleon spread it everywhere. The minor elite uncritically took the garbage from liberals and thought it was a great leap forward. I like Napoleon because of the accomplishments he did, but without him, the French revolution would have been some gay shit on Wikipedia
>>544828087then what are you referring to as "falling"what is that thing that we were, but now are not
>>5448276381913 Federal Reserve Act was pretty heavy
>>544828693see >>544827857
>>5448276381971 obviously
>>544827638Hart-Celler act or "winning" WW2.
>>544827638women's suffrage in 1920-ish
>>544829228Also dodge v Ford.
the current one: after 1945, then intensified in the 1970s and finally escalated since 2001.we are in the final stage before its ultimate escalation now.
>>544827638With arrival of christinity.
>>544827638382 > emperor theodosian insert Trinitarian religion as state religion or 468 > ricimer infiltrated Roman military elites and had all the good guys killed never trust Germans
>>544827638I think that World War I is where Western civilization committed suicide. Basically all of the major problems we have that are killing our society were either directly caused or hyperaccelerated by the war. Before the war the world was ruled by kings and empires. After it, mere democracies. The europeans will never again have the power and influence on earth that they once held. They are defeated by themselves.
1914
>>544827915does he ever miss?
>>544829245
>>544828946Honestly true, but he probably just accelerated everything. Europe was already very interconnected at the time. Enlightenment ideas were spreading around wildly in the late 18th century.>>544829228Holy shit Lyndon B. Johnson is the worst president in American history by far, basically indirectly caused the deaths of millions of white Americans>>544829245Women's suffrage wouldn't have been possible without enlightenment ideas. But yeah it was a massive step towards doom
>>544827638When cops became a thing in 1829
>>544827638>When did the decline of the West begin?8000bce
>>544827638Something about tulips and Oranges.Or maybe something about taking slaves from conquered groups.Or...
>>5448276381980s. Worker production continued to increase while wages lagged. CEO pay began to dramatically outclass labor. Stock buybacks legalized. Anti-monopoly work stopped. The Fairness Doctrine was rescinded allowing for the BS media we have now.
>>544829539what's so common about the common era
>>544829491
>>544827638Post Great War. The elites had a nervous breakdown and jews moved in and took advantage of the moment.
>>544828497No it didnt, things were fine until then.
>>544829097unless you have a definition of what "rising" and "falling" means, i don't think that you'll ever find an answer to your question is it "falling" to have low birth rates?if yes, then it is the rich gays that are fallen, and it is those that make lots of kids that are rising (ex: christians) thus "we" / "the west" are not fallen, only some people in the west areand if "low birthrates are good, because it's eugenic"then it is those who have lots of kids that are falling, and the rich gays are the ones who are rising
>>544829539What's the reason for switching from BCE to CE at some point.
>>544827638>>544828172The Reformation is the best answer, but I don't mean that in a polemical way. I think Luther had good intentions, but he split Europe ideologically in a way which doomed it going forward. From a civilizational perspective, it would have been better if the Catholics dominated OR the mainline Protestants dominated; going halfway was the worst possible option.The confusion and religious uncertainty which resulted led directly to Nonconformists, who are the real villains of the story. Once belief systems were decentralized, with no final authority figure to establish ironclad limits, you will inevitably see a purity spirals as people continuously try to gain status over each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_spiralLeftism, you'll notice, is one ginormous purity spiral, and its origins lay all the way back in those 17th century nonconformist Christians like Diggers, Quakers, etc. Feminism, gender equality, pacifism, Communism and the abolition of property, blank-slate egalitarianism - they all directly originate in these groups.>>544828571Locke was the son of a noncomformist minister. The Enlightenment, in general, resulted from the decentralization of ideology I outlined above. Every one of these figures implicitly wanted to be "more Christian than the Christians" - that is, a purity spiral.
>>544827638When women were given rights
>>544827638Social media.
All wrong. It was the moment non-Whites were allowed into the West and, by extension, proliferated on the back of Western technology / food production.Whites can entertain anything, be it christianity, usury, liberalism, whatever, provided they have racial homogeneity.
>>544829153I have a degree in economics and I can assure you: economics is literally just fake numbers and has no lasting impact on anything. Indeed mainstream economists will straight up admit that fiscal and monetary policy has zero effect on living standards long-term.Civilizations thrive or burn based on their social structure and their human capability (e.g., IQ).
>>544830056>>544830444Mass immigration started before 2008 retards>>544830339Honestly pretty interesting read but I can't say I agree. We were able to dominate for about 400 years after 1517. You can't really conclude from that that it's the fault of the Protestant revolution that we couldn't keep on dominating.>>544830534I partly agree with this but the problem is that liberalism/enlightenment indirectly caused mass immigration, killing of babies, transgenderism, plummeting birth rates, etc. But you're right in the sense that if we can guarantee 99% of a country is white we will live in paradise.
>>544827638follow the banker coups. That is when it happened. You can see it support. What did the bankers bankroll? When did a privatized central bank established? I'm not aware of any older book that points this stuff out directly.
>>544830534We can't live through a gangstalking police state
>>544830534>It was the moment non-Whites were allowed into the Westwell (according to AI), during the Korean War (1950–1953) there was still racial segregation going on in the US military and missagination (race mixing) wasn't made legal until 1967the niggers were shipped and thus "allowed to stay" in the west, but they were slaves picking cotton and even when they were freed after the US civil war, an attempt was made to deport them all back to africa- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberiaeither way, if this is your definition of "falling" then the solution would be quite simplejust get the niggers to self deport >Whites can entertain anything, be it liberalismthen, here's your game plan:>promote abortion to lower nigger birth rates (lowering white birth rates also)>promote faggotry and castration (tranny-ism) for the same reason (with the same consequences)>villinize whiteness so niggers wouldn't want to engage with it (making whites hate themselves)>promote niggerness to get them patriotic about returning to africa (making whites look up to the niggers)>in fact, you could even promote race-mixing, in order to get the niggers to bleach themselves out of existance (niggrifying the white gene pool)something something the democrats are the real racists
>>544830856>killing of babies, transgenderism, plummeting birth rates, etc.All survivable. All forms of soft eugenics. But immigration of non-Europeans? Ruinous.
>>544827638When Hadrian failed to finish the job.
>>544830932Yes, we can. Russia and EE did it decades ago.
>>544827638Pagan Renaissance.
>>544830856>We were able to dominate for about 400 years after 1517. You can't really conclude from that that it's the fault of the Protestant revolution that we couldn't keep on dominating.To reiterate: mainline Protestantism is fine from a civilizational perspective. It's just that the Reformation inadvertently created space for decentralized religious authority, and thus hyper-Christianity: feminism, egalitarianism, and so forth. These ideas are DIRECTLY traceable to 16th century nonconformist Christians. Look up the Anabaptist revolts or Quakerism if you don't believe me.It took these guys and their ideological descendants hundreds of years to capture European institutions. The French Revolution was a major milestone in this. Someone who says the fall "started with the French Revolution" isn't totally wrong, but the ideas behind the revolution existed for centuries.So, the Fall didn't *apparently* start in 1517 because its progenitors had no institutional power in 1517. But we can trace it back to that time period.
>>544831198They didn't have the tech we do now
>>544827638When democracy became normalized, it opened the gates for cheap populist people. And when women started to vote, it was the endAll of democracies achievements were built on the back of monarchiesThis also happened with Jews when they lost their older kings and started listening to rabbis which made jews become very weak and feminine It still affects Jews to this day, sadly
>>544831167Honestly you're right>>544831225Actually you have a great point there. If you have read Voltaire's letters on England you will realize that in the 1720s England had a lot of different Christians sects (and some toleration for different religions). Voltaire wrote a bunch of letters on the Quakers specifically, and praised England for being more liberal and tolerant than France. I'm just curious did you ever read a book about this idea, did you get it from somewhere else or did you come up with it by yourself
>>544830844>>544830844>I have a degree in economics and I can assure you: economics is literally just fake numbers and has no lasting impact on anything.
>>544827638Bible is best book to study the decline of West. Islam is the only thing that can save the West from biblical denegenation.
>>544832063
>>544832063shut the fuck up you fucking jeet
>>544832063kys jeet nigger
>>544827638after ww2
>>544829359Yeah, the India-like pagan pantheon of worshipping trees and having trannies as priests was a sophisticated belief system that surely isn’t everything that’s wrong with the modern world.
>>544827857schizo Bulgarian that admitted he would kill his child if god told him to doing damage control Lmaohow many threads are you spamming in at the moment?
>>5448276381967 it was sealed
>>544827638Blackpillers were saying that it was over as far back as the Hellenistic period. This attitude of civilizational pessimism and yearning for a lost golden age is nothing new.
>>544827638>When did the decline of the West begin?When the Rothschild central banking scheme managed to used debt to control the British aristocracy after they lied about Napoleon winning at Waterloo and bought up all their assets at a bargain price.
>>544828087>the Roman thought of race and how everyone can become a Roman citizen.was it Roman thought or (((Roman))) thought?
>>544832315You're a clown. The West has declined in literally everything that we can statistically measure. Especially niggers and sandapes raping and stabbing kids. You are fucking retarded
>>544832376Sorry to put it more clearly, I meant the Roman idea
>>544832417Why do you think that foreign incursion and violence is something novel to your current time in history?
>>544827638Black Death was the opening of the Pandora's box and what ultimately allowed the wrong people to slowly take over. Although the Magna Carta was already an earlier sign of the incoming times. French Revolution simply was the biggest of those "Enlightenment revolutions" such as the American one and British ones that precede it.
>>544832506You are a fucking cuck. The difference is that we have never willingly allowed niggers and sandapes to invade our countries, destroy our cities, rape and kill our women and children and still not deport or kill them.It was safer to walk around Paris as a woman at 3AM in the 14th century than in the 21th century. And we all know why. Fuck you you fucking niggerloving faggot
>>544831766>read a bookhere's a way you can find books on the subject:>search the archiveyou can experiment with terms and them ctrl + f to help find stuff - https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/text/read%20book%20on%20the%20fall%20of%20the%20west/ (you'll find search terms that make more sense)apparently, there's something called "The Fate of Empires and Search for Survival by John Glubb", where "He hypothesises that all empires and great nations have a roughly 250-year lifespan" for example>ask AI yes, most AI are cucked, but twitter's grok i hear is decent. and there's also gab's AI (which is intentionally right wing). there's also some chinese alternatives that are still censored but in different ways - https://gab.ai/>ask the people selling themsure, they're gonna wanna sell you everything, but these publishers in particular donate to white nationalist (as far as i know)- https://antelopehillpublishing.com/ - https://www.clemensandblair.com/- https://theritebooks.com/collections/all-booksi also remember mark collet (of the UK) promoting his book, which sounds relevant- https://www.thefallofwesternman.com/
>>544827638Protestant reformation
>>544831766Thanks. I first came across the idea on Yarvin's original blog, Unqualified Reservations. He did a long series on the topic entitled "How Dawkins got Pwned" (remember, this was from 2007). That's the most accessible read, albeit some people can't stand his style. But Yarvin was certainly not the first to propose this. Murray Rothbard, among others, wrote about it in "the Progressive Era" and "origins of the Welfare State." George Mckenna's "The Puritan Origins of American Patriotism" is another example. These focus on America in particular, which makes sense. At the very least I'd check out chapter 2 of "How Dawkins got Pwned" as it has a ton more sources for further reading.But yeah just reading primary source material, like you did with Voltaire, is the best redpill of all. It's legit scary how directly modern leftism proceeds from 16th century Nonconformists. The Munster rebellion perfectly tracks Stalinism in almost every way to such an extent you'll get chills. And once you see the Purity Spiral in modern leftist discourse you'll never unsee it.
>>544831766You underestimate white normies. They handle all this bullshit just fine. Even the ardent feminists and other assorted idiots manage to have 2 kids, albeit late in life, but they still get it done. Then consider all the pressures put upon Whites, no other population could handle it. But the key being alien demography, which no life-form can entertain without facing extinction.In practice, I couldn't give a shit about all this neo-christian liberal nonsense, including their socialism. Let the masses indulge that shit, but on the sole condition that they uphold racial homogeneity at the very least.
>>544832368
>>544832675Yeah I asked grok already but it gave pretty shit answers>>544832698Thanks man I appreciate the detailed response I took a screenshot of your comment>>544832741>You underestimate white normies. They handle all this bullshit just fine. Even the ardent feminists and other assorted idiots manage to have 2 kids, albeit late in life, but they still get it done. Then consider all the pressures put upon Whites, no other population could handle it. But the key being alien demography, which no life-form can entertain without facing extinction.Honestly you're right about all of this but unfortunately they will never accept racial homogeneity ever again. The average normie still thinks racism is one of the greatest sins you can commit. And this will be an extremely long process to undo, if not impossible
Augustine
>>544827638>When did the West fall? We are trapped in a time slice of the fall of Rome. There is nothing new under the sun.
>>544833326>And this will be an extremely long process to undo, if not impossibleThings always seem impossible until they happen overnight.
>>544833326It seems impossible in the same way it was deemed impossible to make things the way they are now.
when christinity took over europe and all the smaller tribes and their local gods
>>544832090Now imagine your white wives fighting for you in your house, instead of choking the children before you come home.
>>544832131>>544832192Yes kill kaffir pagan Jeet. Muslims will save India and West.
