>if you are atheist... why bother being a good person?since you don't believe in God, karma, or any of that "nonsense", why should you bother being a good and moral person if it doesn't benefit you?>it would be completely irrational
>>544876562If you're only being a decent person because you think a Jewish fairy is watching you from the sky and judging you, you're a piece of shit
>>544876562Because there is a law. I don't want to be behind bars.
>>544876562Being good always pays off
>>544876834Why should you care about being a "piece of shit"?Because some atheist is unironically trying to moralfag (oxymoron) online?
>>544876562Game theory and math says being cooperative is how we evolutionarily evolved to human dominance and develop cultures and all the benefits of civilization. If you are a "good" person because you fear consequences from law or a god then you aren't really a "good" person, you are a shitty person on a leash. Besides that it feels good to be likeable. I know, wild concept and hot take of course. Who would have thought being a repulsive dickwad doesn't pay off
>>544876562>Why should you care about being a "piece of shit"?you are 100% a piece of shit
>>544876562I was raised athiest and have an innate desire to be fair. I don't care if you don't believe me. It actually makes perfect sense from an evolutionary perspective. Assholes were killed and exited the gene pool for the most part before faggy christkikery told us to "forgive" these sociopathic fucks we used to kill for eugenics.
>>544876946Because your very religion tells you to behave? What are you on about?
>>544877115As much as I don't want to admit it, a lot of that pruning happened during the medieval era where everyone was Christian. They would execute 1-2% of all males every generation.
>>544876562Why does religion have to tell me not to hurt others? I'm not a raging asshole.
>>544876834>you're a piece of shitAnd? Are you trying to imply it's a bad thing and your opinion matters?
>>544876868There's no law against being an asshole, dimwit.
>>544877096Game theory doesn't mean shit when you aren't a chimp with a primitive monkey brain.As an intelligent, rational human being you can override your instincts and use it to do good or bad.Scenario 1:>Christian has opportunity to embezzle 250k in wealth from state coffers with minimal chance of getting caughtvs>Atheist has opportunity to do the sameOnly one fears damnation. You really think your "game theory" is enough to keep the atheist from just stealing the money? absurd.
>>544876562because i feel like it
>>544876562being a bad and immoral person generally does not benefit anyone either, retard. laws still exist that will punish you for doing these things.
>>544877371ALL and I mean literally ALL of the greatest mass murderers in history were atheists. Your whimsical 'innate goodness' doesn't mean shit when 90% of normies would sell their own grandma for a cheeseburger if they didn't fear God's wrath. >>544877619Exactly. These dumbasses don't even realize their own notion of morality comes from the exact same religions they despise.
>>544877770>Game theory doesn't mean shitJohn Maynard Smith's Evolutionarily Stable Strategy (ESS) disagrees.
>>544877844>laws still exist that will punish youThose laws were created by bad and immoral people who took power because of how beneficial being a POS is.The laws they made aren't to benefit you either it's to maintain their grip on power.
>>544876562Cause moral frameworks weren’t invented by religion, they emerge from emotional projection without the need of believing some deity’s gonna give you shit for being “good”. That and simple cause and effect. You one of those retards who believe their morals are a gift of christianity or something?
>>544877770>but what if you dont get caughtConsider there is s butterfly effect to every action. If I embezzle, I may get away with it, but it could also collapse the company and put all the people I care about - friends, maybe family, maybe the friends of my children - into a worse state than before which would affect me because then I have to deal with the fallout of that in my community, whether I get caught or not. And life is too short to constantly maintain a web of lies or look constantly over my shoulder. The math says no And what what would I need that money for if the company is doing well? I dont have to tithe and I can sustain myself. Im not so desperate im willing to live with the guilt and regret of screwing everyone else over. If I were embezzling because the company was being acquisitioned by a rich douchebag and I was making a fund or a new venture for those affected, thats a different story. Intention matters.>>544877371>>544877371Thats because Religion is for sociopathic brain addled trogs so they could be resocialized into being good servants by their masters. Those of us with functional reasoning and empathy can figure for ourselves why its good to be good for goodness' sake without desert slaver tribal mysticism and imaginary friends
>>544877942>their own notion of morality comes from the exact same religionsIt's almost as if religions mimic evolutionary developments... whaaaaaaat
>>544877942>Hobbseian edginessTit for two tat strategy in the end is far more successful that tit for tat or even belligerent strategies. Thats just a fact, I dont expect religioids to understand because that involves actual reasoning and study>empathy was invented by religionNo it comes from neurology/biology, which is far older than whatever knock off modern deity you worship.
>>544876562Atheists can't define what good and bad are or why.>my heckin monkey dick says society good>my molocules and mRNA just decided to do stuffYeah that's right atheists. I called you out. I also didn't bump this.
>>544876562But being morally benevolent does benefit you even without a god watching over you.You have no scientific action/reaction understanding of this world do you? You can't understand the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd order ramifications of your actions, can you? You don't understand that your actions resonate, however miniscule or grandly, through the world around you and can boomerang around and smack you upside the back of your head, do you?Your argument is a really old and already long-defeated argument. Why keep trying it?Creating a benevolent fortress of positive actions around oneself gives you defense against the entropic decay of the universe. People creating many of those fortresses creates a collective higher-order of mechanical constructs that further resists the inherent decay and chaos of the universe, thus increasing the benevolence and constructive forces of the universe. This positively feeds back in a loop into more higher order and more constructive behavior being done.No deity is needed. If you personally need a deity to justify it, I won't knock you for it, but don't kid yourself into thinking that's an absolute bare-minimum requirement. That's a personal choice to need someone looking over your shoulder, not a mandate of reality.
>>544878477>what is good or badEvolution gave us a powerful brain and instincts, including the ability to feel bad when we don't achieve desired results. Its not that hard to figure out, you can basically go by vibes or utilize reasoning, minimize regrets in life.>reeeee without god there is no reason to be good. My monkey brain says sky wizard will hurt me if Im a bad monkeyNow you are just telling on yourself as an immoral being who fears consequences. You are not a good person, you just have an imaginary leash, like a dumb animal trained on a shock collar and learned helplessness to the point of Stockholm syndrome
>>544877096How do you explain the theory of phycopaths in power then? Like CEO's and Politicians?
>>544877619why ask then?and yeah, being a shitty person is a bad thing for everyone else around you. This is why the majority of people cooperate
>>544878149I guarantee you literally NOBODY thinks of muh butterfly effect before commuting crime.They think of God.
>>544877942this is why I stoned my neighbour to death. He wore clothes mixed 2 types of fabrics and I saw him raking leaves on a saturday (shabbat)
>>544878852>>544878363>cant make a single post without talking about some theorem, syndrome, effect, or paradoxyou collect theories like they're pokemon cards but you don't sound smart like you think you do, reddit nigger.go back
>>544878993>the majority of people*of irrelevant peopleYou are either too young or too naive.
>>544878617>muh benevolent fortress of positive actionscringenow tell me what happens when picrel comes along?
>>544878982That one's easy. The first form of sapience to emerge was primitive sadism: monkeys bashing each other over the head with rocks. It let them gather many banans, trees, and other resources. Those sadistic monkeys breed, and get more stuff, then start giving resources to other monkeys as payment to do the dirty work for them.Fast forward to today and we're literally THE de-facto Pirate/Bandit faction from video games. We've just slowly realized that to move any further we have to utilize eugenics and euthenization to eradicate sadism from the gene pool now that it's outlived its usefulness and is only a detriment.But yeah, the super majority of politicians, CEOs and financial institutional families can primarily trace their lineage back to the most sadistic of monkeys who then turned the rest of the monkeys into mercenaries to do their bidding.Now we're in an era of refinement of sapience, which means we hammer out the sadism from the hot iron as the slag it is.
>>544878993>>544879242And that's not even the case with hoi polloi. Most hoi polloi will fuck you over given a slightest chance. The worst offenders in my experience were always bible thumpers. (No, I'm not an atheist.)
>>544878999>criminals think of godOnly after they abuse meth and get sent to prison and need to do 12 step programs to "prove" they are reformed, I assure you. Were they born with it or was it the brain damage and desperation? Who knows, too many unknown variables>>544878982>explain psychopaths in leadership positionsThis is speculative, as I have no way to prove CEOs are or arent psycho/sociopaths and even that terminology isn't completely understood on a biology level to qualify consistently. But lets presume for the sake of argument it is: first off being poor and a psychopath doesnt get you anywhere except in jail or dead in a gang war. Being rich shelters you from the consequences of your actions and CEOs constantly have to make emotionally draining decisions so having reduced or no cognitive empathy can help you focus making leadership decisions that maintain your position on a pragmatic level even if those decisions arent the "best" they can still "work". But at the end of the day psychos are limited by their own biology just like the rest of us, and it shows by how ~90% of ventures fail. This may also explain why psychopaths are considered rare even if some people believe they are superior. Though there are a lot of prevailing misconceptions about what is a psychopath, there is a test. I highly recommend this video on the topichttps://youtu.be/H7haxkYwAaU
>>544879143>you think you are so smort reeeee just agree that Im right because thinking is too hard for me>implying reddit users are smarter than himAnon I- I dont think this is the flex you think it is
>>544879733Yeah i was just proding your ideas idk if its even true what i said.
>>544876562I'm not a good person. Not really. I just have never been in a situation where being explicitly bad would yield any benefit.
>>544877770Given that all money in existence is the product of fraud, stealing it is not even meaningfully worse than what has already been done by it merely existing.
>>544876562>>544876946>>544878477
I am an infinitely recurring pattern, and I will continue to drink and do whatever I want desu
>>544879880nah it's because pseuds like you always rely on reddit ILoveScience! babble to justify your awful takes you think because some scientist shat out some word soup with Theory™ attached that it lends credibility to your midwit argument
>>544876562there is no should without a stated objectivephilosowank is one step above spiritfaggotry on the measure of fake and gay
>>544880265>>544880461Well there is value in honesty, and while everything is a result of exploitation its worth noting there are levels of exploitation and intentionality. Participating in injustice to survive and feed your family is a lot more understandable and ethical than maintaining an unethical system because you want to maintain an elite position as a vanguard and key player of that system that refuses to improve conditions or compensate the disenfranchised
>>544880810>Ad hominemWere it so easy to disprove my point then perhaps you would have constructive criticism or a valid rebuttal. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
>>544877770>embezzling money from the statewhy would a christian bother doing this? even small time strip mall pastors can make a nice living fleecing christcuck retards, nevermind the top tier scumbag grifters like osteen etc who make millions.>250klol
>>544881235>valid rebuttaloh how cute, the niggermonkey said rebuttal. He's probably chortling about how smart he isand I'll remind you, niggermonkey, why in fucks name should I care about muh morality if I don't believe in God? Because holding hands and singing songs is better for everybody? LOL
>>544879263What happens? Tell us.Then tell us what do you do with traitors and enemies who are actively trying to destroy you, your country, and your people.
>>544881478>*dilating*I have my reasons to believe what I believe even if I don't believe in afterlife or a spiritual point scoring system>why should I care about morality if I don't believe in God*godAnd to answer your question well there is no singular reason. For starters because you can achieve far more and convince more people if people did't think you were an insufferable discontent twat. But for what its worth no one is forcing you to believe anything, you are the one trying to convince the rest of us being miserable like you is worthwhile.
>>544881478>>544881235You are both wrong and right at the same time. Stop fighting like two little girls and come to a realization that both cooperation and empathy are builtin features (by God, evolution, the alien engineer, or the AI that's controlling all your emotions right now because you are a shitty buggy program in the Matrix) but without an irrational belief in an irrational theory of God, humans would not have achieved any meaningful progress and would not have secured their place as an apex predator because instead of cooperating and surviving that'd still be stealing each others dinners and bashing the weakest's heads in because they could.
>>544882200> you both have good points but have you considered GAWDWell thats a reductive and eurocentric take. Buddhism is way older than christianity or judaism for that matterand was wrestling with these moral philosophic concepts ling before monotheism was relevant to society. You could just as easily claim Gilgamesh or Buddhist atheism was responsible for the development of civilization (presuming oral traditions of earlier people had no impact)
>>544881949>tell us what do you do with traitors and enemies who are actively trying to destroy you, your country, and your people.You vote for them not once, not twice, but three times.
>>544882137>I have my reasonsA compelling argument.
>>544882843>Buddhism is way older than christianity or judaismyikesyou DO belong on plebbit.
>>544876562I do what I like
>>544883317
>>544882843>reductive>eurocentric>Buddhist atheismthe reddit on this pseud fag is nauseating. Should I even bother mentioning that both Gods and Karma (literally central to Buddhism) exist? Or is this reddit moron too far gone?
>>544883454
>>544883459It's worse than that too: per their "science", buddhism is a product of hinduism which was literally invented by the late-18th-to-mid-19th century london jewery (aka intelligentsia) to keep bureaucratic rulling class of hindus larping as if that shithole of a tea-growing colony ever was anything but a shithole. The rest of mythology followed.whatever.>>544883600you obviously belong with them plebbit troons.
>>544883629>you won, tranny
>>544883350Well I could elaborate but as you could see from the thread, theories and actual data is not well received here if it violates childish groupthink>>544883427>yikesI never said I believe in buddhism , just pointing out how fallacious it is to presume religion invented everything, let alone christianity which is basically a knockoff of a knockoff of a knockoff of a religion
>>544883721>I could elaborateAgain, very compelling. I accept your concession.
>>544876562Better for whites to be selfish anyway.
>>544883459>GAWD created buddhism and Karma>>544883629>their buddhist "science" was created by polytheistic Hindus There is no reasoning with retards who just make up whatever strawman fallacy they want believe. Religion didnt make up science, mathematics did. Religion however did execute early scientists like Galileo because religioids are insecure barbaric sycophants larping as moralfags
>>544876562Oh, we so called "atheists" believe in Karma. It totally exists. It is something internal to the being.
>>544876917>Being good always pays offNot really. I've been good all my life. Didn't get shit for it.
>>544877115I am completely for fairness, in all cases. It's why I am a National Socialist.
>>544883780>ignores my previous arguments>i accept your concessionYour beliefs are made up, so it doesnt really change anything if you make a strawman to feel secure in your confirmation bias. Im still dont believe in your imaginary friend regardless, cope
>>544877770>Only one fears damnation.The other fears Society.
>>544883898>incoherent hurr durr
>>544884049What about damnation by society?a-ha!
>>544876562Because I want to be a good person. People like good people, and I like myself if I'm being good.Plus the world as a whole becomes better when people are good to one another.So it DOES benefit me.
>>544876562Atheists absolutely believe in karma
>>544877115>have an innate desire to be fairIt was instilled by your environment.You are just not sentient enough to be able to see that.
>>544884049One should fear creating a world worse than the one they live in. And despite the meme our world is a collection of societies. We live in them.
>544883898>544884007Your (You) supply is cut off. I suggest returning to Reddit.>>544884049>fears SocietyHow much greater it is to fear God Almighty than mortal man.
>>544883942>we so called "atheists" believe in Karma. It totally exists. It is something internal to the being.you speak for all atheists?
>>544884134>How much greater it is to fear God Almighty than mortal man.Sovereignty of self: does man have authority over me or God?
>>544884063>*chimps out anti-intellectually*Mfw I don't respond to disingenuous goalpost moving and accept my intellectually superiority picrel
>>544884188>It totally exists. It is something internal to the being.It could be argued that manifestations of states of mind have been observed. The dynamics and mechanics are secondary to the result.
>>544884112Only the atheist buddhists do. I think its flawed and silly concept as I dont believe in souls or reincarnation
>>544876562>why bother being a good person?That is kike rhetoric.
>>544884262>>*chimps out anti-intellectually*
>>544876562If by "be a good person", you mean "be a Christian", then they can't, because atheists don't believe in Christ.
reason equals virtue equals happiness
>>544876562>If you are atheist... why bother being a good person?It's beneficial to society. If you need a supernatural reason to be a good person, you aren't one.
>>544884340What is "reason"?
>>544876917>Being good always pays offIt does not. Epstein class aren't good but they are pleasuring themselves. Good guys are sad and lonely.
>>544884366Why care about society or anyone but yourself if you're an atheist? You are your own universe.
>>544884394It's when you logically connect pieces of data from your sensory inputs. That's all you need for morality
>>544876562Whatever you do is completely irrational but you do it anyway. It comes down to aesthetix and what feels gud
>>544884540>You are your own universe.until my own universe acts in accordance with your god and you FREAK the fuck out
>>544884366I also believe this. But, how do you cope with the injustice of seeing wicked people not only getting what they want but being respected and admired for being prideful and powerful with no outward indication of feeling remorse or regret. How do you explain that it's better to be virtuois when virtue doesn't pay off and can even isolate you from people who feel threatened by it?
>>544876562>dude god told moshe and his band of jews to kill and rape kids like muslims, if you don't worship him you can't be le good like the prophet muhammad wasIs that what you're going with?
>>544884559>sensoryso, a priori knowledge is out of the question then>logicallyCool. Which type of logic?Because based on the type of logic, the>virtuedefinition may change.>happinesswell, that's pretty subjective, ain't?
>>544884694>Is that what you're going with?No, it isn't.
>>544884601But atheists were the most violent group by far in the 20th century. Like holy shit atheists killed and oppressed a lot of people.
>>544884787I just want to be a good person like prophet muhammad and moshe, but secular law prohibits me from murdering and wifing up children. What do?
>>544884922but dont worry they got their "reasons" and they're trying really hard to not be a "piece of shit"
>>544884633And that's the conundrum, ain't it?Especially when them injustices aren't just observed but are experienced by own skin.
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