>share like 80% of their language>share a religion>share a history>went to space together>fought Nazi Germany together>still fight each other to the death To be honest, this is a massive blackpill for humanity. We and French hated each other as well, but we became civilized and evolved. Why didn't they? Slavs set humanity back to the pre-world wars era.
>>545111280internecine wars are the worst
>>545111280This is nothing new. My country was formed from British colonists that fought their countrymen to the death. Sometimes this is necessary.
>>545111280>We're better!Goymans culled 70% of their own population over Protestantism.The moral superiority complex while being throat-deepnin blood that will NEVER be washed away is disgusting.
>fought Nazi Germany togetherOUN-B didnt fight the Nazis. They were an Axis ally that killed Poles and Russians.
>>545111280One wishes to dominate the other is the underlying issue.
>>545111280It's not like Ukrainians are volunteering to be in trenches
>>54511154490% of ukrainians were Soviet-aligned. Muh bandera was a minority. in fact, ukrainians made up nearly half of the top soviet figures and minds.
>>545111450That was 300 fucking years ago retard.>>545111500>goymans slaughtered each other in the 1600s, they're sooo evulWe have advanced AI now and 3D Printing and self-driving cars. There is no need for wars. Even the smallest nation can become rich and successful.
>>545111500this
>>545111280Russians hate each other. Nothing new, cultural peculiarity which not necessarily the whole world should have known.
>>545111280>share like 80% of their language>share a religion>share a history>still fight each other to the deathThis is the case for basically any two neighboring countries throughout all of history. Not special about Slavs.
>>545111720It doesn't matter how long ago my example is because the point is that it's a timeless dispute. One nation decides that a particular political arrangement is intolerable and the other disagrees, and they fight over it.
>>545111280>fought Nazi Germany togetherThe Galician nationalists were so nigger-tier turbo nazis even the SS found them disgusting. Then they went on to become CIA assets in Operation Aerodynamic.They were the ones who declared themselves in 2014 the One True Ukrainians™.
>>545111280The massive blackpill for humanity was the Cain and Abel story. It is known that people can kill each other for money.
Why do people act like it's some oddity that two similar nations are at war? Is it supposed to be the norm to fight some random irrelevant country that you have nothing to do with and no business with across the planet? It's not unique to Slavs at all. It sucks that russia still has retarded imperial ambitions and decides to start pointless wars to "achieve" them against other Slavs, but that's a uniquely russian issue, not Slavs.
>>545111280>we evolvedWhat do the EU troglodytes even mean by this?
>>545111280>share like 80% of their languagePiggers don't have a real language>share a religionPiggers rejected Christianity and support a shizo khazar death cult with Big Maks on graves>share a historyPiggers don't have history>went to space togetherIn the same way as dogs did>fought Nazi Germany togetherPigger nationalists tried to ally themselves to Germans on their own, got despised by nazis more than the soviets instead>still fight each other to the death The only thing that changed to an average pigger since the war started is now they occasionally shit in bags at winters (maybe they did so before, nobody gave a shit)
>>545113778And yet they are kicking your ass. That's the most hilarious thing. They more you make them look bad, the worse you look.
>>545111280That is exactly how Russia is trying to stop it. To do that, it is necessary to destroy the instigator - Ukraine, which unleashed this war in 2014 with the ATO.
>>545111662Yes but my point is Zelensky’s Ukraine is heir to OUN-B/ the brief Ukraine state of WWII when the Soviets were closing in. It has nothing at all to do with Ukraine SSR. All the old Ukrainian Soviet guys like Yuri Meshkov were driven out decades ago (literally decades).
>>545114361And you can’t because you are incompetent.
>>545113614>>545113778>>545114361
>>545113778hope to right click -> save as when the ukrainian drone gonna kaboom you, faggot.
>>545114486Russia has taken territory the size of Greece away from your kike masters in Kiev.Cope and seethe
>>545114541And how will Ukraine stop Russian bombs and drones?
>>545111280>share like 80% of their languagenope. Lexical Similarity: Linguistic studies show Ukrainian and Russian share about 62% of their vocabulary, which is a similar proportion of shared words to English and Dutch or English and German.Closest Relatives: Ukrainian shares more vocabulary with Belarusian (84%), Polish (70%), and Slovak (68%) than it does with Russian (62%).>still fight each other to the death only if russia hasn't invaded, breaking over 400 international and bilateral treaties, agreements, conventions, Ukraine wouldn't have to fight them to the death.
>>545116914NATO expansion violated the unwritten agreements of the 1990s. The West ignored Russia’s warnings from 2008 onward.NATO is a military bloc on Russia’s borders.
>>545114422>old Ukrainian Soviet guys like Yuri Meshkovliterally the head of the "russian community in Crimea", the head of the russian fifth column, serving russian government interests in Crimea, Ukraine.>Zelensky’s Ukraine is heir to OUN-B/what the fuck are you even blathering about, pidor?
>>545111553>One wishes to dominate the otherThe Jews wish to ethnically cleanse the Donbas of Russians and the rest of Ukraine of Ukrainians. That's the underlying issue.
>>545111280>still fight each other to the deathIt's not the same on either side. Russians don't hate Ukrainians at all and view this war as a chore and inconvenience, to get rid of their government, and teach them a lesson like children. For better or worse, it's emotionless. If a drone hits their local store or something they don't curse Ukrainians, but their own army/gov for being incompetent. On the Ukrainian side it's different. They had an actual, powerful ultranationalist bloc that genuinely hated Russians for made up racial reasons from the WW2 era, with CIA support of course. But now because of years of war that sentiment has expanded a lot. For those that haven't fled the country of course.>>545117169He's correct. The nation building agenda of modern Ukraine always looked to its collaborationist past for the view years of the Nazi era than the many decades of their role as an integral SSR.
>>545117005>violated the unwritten agreements of the 1990sso, the "agreements" that only exist in pootin's head to justify russian revanchism.>a military bloc on Russia’s bordersa defensive military block to protect member nations against periodic russian chimpouts, as evidenced by history and common sense. pootin may not like the fact that he cant just invade member nations with impunity, but that's his problem. Ukraine was never a member of NATO, nor was it a candidate, nor was it offered MAP, and that's precisely WHY pootin invaded it.
>>545117357>Ukraine always looked to its collaborationist pastanother blathering pidor idiot. Bandera was literally a prisoner in a nazi concentration camp. russia, however, collaborated with the nazis on a whole different level, providing them with trainig facilities for their pilots and tank crews, sending them oil, wheat, iron ore and other strategic resources for years, thus enabling Hitler to start WW2 (together with Stalin). A few thousand Ukrainian collaborators is like a grain of sand on a beach by comparison to the russian/soviet - nazi collaborationism.
>>545117413>so, the "agreements" that only exist in pootin's head Declassified by the US National Security Archive (December 2017). Key ones: the conversation between Baker and Gorbachev on February 9, 1990 (Gorbachev Foundation), and a telegram from the US Embassy in Bonn dated January 31, 1990. The promises were made and recorded in documents.>a defensive military block to protectBombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 without UN authorization, the 2011 invasion of Libya, regime change.“Defensive alliance,” blah blah blah.
>>545117643And Germany switched from supporting China to Japan. Irrelevant, I'm talking about collaborationism during the war. Ukraine systemically elevates OUN and Galizien as a proud part of their history while burying the living memory of the Soviet era, and it causes a lot of friction with Poland.
>>545117357>its collaborationist pastdo you really wanna open the can of worms that is the russian collaborationism with the nazis? You know, people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at neighbors.
>>545111280>what is geopoliticsdurka durka
it's a russian civil warprigozhin even started another 4th faction before he got slav'd
>>545117918Ukraine is basically prigozhin the cuntry
This is how western cumskin pigs would behave if you take the massive natural resources of western Europe & their access to the atlanticSlavs are a mirror that reflect the primitive cumskin mind that's why they hate them so much
>>545117169He's not fully wrong, just says it like a good propaganda victim.OUN-B in general has a huge cult in Ukraine. It's not "just some crazy alt-right people" like it's often portrayed as, they're as recognizeable and liked by Ukrainians as say, Continental Army in USA. There are varying levels of knowledge about the less savoury stuff they did and fair bit of apologism/refusal to acknowleldge, but the focus in general is quite squarely on opposition to Bolsheviks. The official government dances between at least officially refusing to entertain that cult and openly praising it, depending on if they want to appease international or domestic opinion.Does that mean Zelensky's government is heirs to OUN-B? Not really, but they are definitely more comfortable with it than the pro-Russian/Soviet Ukrainians were (See pro-EU Yushchenko declaring Bandera Hero of Ukraine and pro-Russian Yanukovych annulling it back in 2010).>>545117819Russia similarly pretty much refuses to acknowledge that. The opinions vary between "it never happened" to "we were just playing them". They did admit some of it internationally after the collapse of Soviet Union but currently the official line is that Soviets never worked with Nazi Germany, Ribbentrop-Molotov was a hoax and events such as invasion of Poland were genuinely an attempt to save Polish people.
>>545117787>Ukraine systemically elevates OUN and GalizienOUN initially welcomed the Germans as liberators, as they saw what the soviets did in Ukraine (especially in Western Ukraine from 1939 to 1941). But almost immediately became hostile to the nazis, as the nazis prevented Ukrainian nationalists from declaring an independent, sovereign Ukraine. As the matter of fact, they fought both the soviet bolsheviks and the nazi occupiers during WW2, nazis murdered thousands of OUN members along with other enemies of the Reich. As for the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician), it was a military unit, just like units from most other nations (including over 1 million russian volunteers). They're commemorated in as far as their fighting against the soviet occupiers goes. No member of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician), also known as the Waffen-SS Galizien, has ever been legally convicted of a war crime in connection to their service.
>>545117643Back in December 1941, while already under arrest, Bandera was offering the Nazis cooperation, asserting that Ukrainian nationalists were ‘formed in a spirit reminiscent of the ideas of National Socialism.’ The thesis about a ‘prisoner’ is technically true, but ethically and politically misleading: this was by no means a prisoner of conscience, but a failed partner, temporarily isolated for excessive independence.‘The USSR allowed Hitler to start the war’ is an oversimplification. In 1939–1941 the USSR objectively strengthened the Nazi war machine. However, this does not make the USSR a ‘accomplice’ in the same sense in which individual collaborators were.
>>545118735Are you expecting people to feel sorry or somehow think OUN was any better because they thought Nazis would treat them like equals but they instead arrested pretty much all of them as soon as they weren't useful anymore? Hell, OUN-M helped Nazis against OUN-B for a while yet before being subjected to the same fate the second they got too comfortable.>fought both the soviet bolsheviks and the nazi occupiers during WW2,Barely, OUN-B were generally too busy conducting a genocide (and fighting with OUN-M remnants) in Galicia-Volhynia to actually contribute to fighting the German occupation and in turn the Nazis were happy to ignore them as their actions served their goals pretty well. OUN-B allying with Nazi Germany again in 1944 perfectly illustrates the depths of their delusion and growing Nazi desperation.>No member of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician), also known as the Waffen-SS Galizien, has ever been legally convicted of a war crime in connection to their service.Are you a lawyer by any chance? Your very specific word choice is doing some really heavy lifting here, because I can spot at least three places where removing a word would make that sentence no longer true.
>>545111280>We and French hated each other as well, but we became civilized and evolved.imported niggers together>>545111450it was only necessary because the niggerloving south didn't want to give up their niggers. the only reason the war in ookraine is "necessary" is because the ooks didn't splatter their crossdressing jewish actor president.
>>545118727>but currently the official line is that Soviets never worked with Nazi Germany, Ribbentrop-Molotov was a hoax and events such as invasion of Poland were genuinely an attempt to save Polish peopleIdk what they're feeding you over there but this isn't even remotely close to the perception over here.The modern domestic portrayal is loosely as follows:Molotov-Ribbentrop is openly taught and discussed. The collaboration with Germans was le forced because everyone in the west did it first. It wasn't the attempt to save Polish people, it was taking "back" parts of Ukraine and Belarus, as well as winning time (by dismantling existing defense lines and never managing to complete the new ones on the forward lines).
>>545116439Most of that territory was taken 4 years ago.
>>545117005If Russia did not want countries to join NATO it shouldn't have invaded them before.>inb4 going all the way back to medieval shit to justify Russian invasions in the 21st century
>>545119630>when we collaborate, rather, build up nazi war machine it's good, when they do a1/1000 of what we've done, it's a terrible crime against humanity!wow, that's some Olympic level mental gymnastics you've performed there, pidor. Did you know the NKVD had conferences with the Gestapo on how to run effecient prison canps and torture chambers? The NKVD even handed over hundreds of German and Austrian antifascists and communists to the Gestapo in the spirit of cooperation.
>>545119850I lived in Russia for 4 years, there's a vast abyss between "academic consensus" and what average people on the street believe. I don't mean it in the "Russians are fed propaganda" way. I mean it in "people have very selective memories and biases play into it". No matter where you go, Ukraine, Poland and pretty much everywhere is exactly the same. Just hanging around reading bullshit on /pol/ should be enough to convince you. It's just less noticeable in person because normal people tend to not discuss things like that very often, but if you do you will hear some very interesting takes on history, especially from older people (which, after all, still make up for majority of voters).I do admit I sort of expect that stuff being put into textbooks could have gotten worse in recent years for reasons obvious, but, again, for reasons obvious I wasn't able to verify myself for past couple years.
>>545111280The redpill is that all of this drama is America's fault.
>>545120027These transfers were not always Stalin’s ‘initiative’; they were often formally carried out as the handing over of German citizens (even if those citizens were anti-fascists) in response to requests from the German embassy, and the exact number of transfers varies: from ~150 political émigrés to several hundred people in different estimates. You are using a real fact, but you generalize it to the scale of ‘hundreds and thousands’ without proper differentiation.
>>545120341You know how it goes then: there's barely any consensus on anything historical across the population, not even within a single demographic group, because it boils down to most of the people just being absolutely retarded on the matter and failing the start-end dates of the WW2 test.I wouldn't be surprised if you met someone - maybe even a bunch of people - who somehow don't know about the pact, but that's not because it's not being taught.It's nigh impossible to evaluate the "opinion on the ground" in the objective sense. It's always a derivative of either the School programming or the Current media narratives. These two might actually differ in a lot of ways, because the former doesn't keep up with the latter. And I believe I've provided an honest rundown on this media pulse.To add, I think you're mixing up the 1939 invasion and the post-1945 conclusion. The narrative is just tricky like that. Basically, in 1939 Poland got what it deserved, but after 1945 Poland was saved and they should be thankful. The latter is what you quoted as "an attempt to save Polish people." And the media does downplay the pre-1939 collaboration nowadays, but not the MR pact itself.
>>545119943The graph combines the killed, wounded, and missing into a single category ('casualties'), creating the visual effect of '1.5 million dead,' even though the actual number of fatalities is significantly lower. At the same time, Ukrainian losses are not provided for comparison, which creates a one-sided picture. ISW relies on data from the Ukrainian General Staff, which is a party to the conflict.
>>545120868And post-1939 collaboration as well, lol. It's actually funny how many narratives would collapse if the state were to openly admit that yes, the USSR was willing to join the Reich's new world order, if the conditions would have allowed for that to happen (i.e. no invasion of each other).
>>545119850>The collaboration with Germans was le forced because everyone in the west did it first.The Western powers were not genuinely interested in an equal alliance. Their goal was to bind the USSR with promises but not give it real guarantees, seeking to direct Hitler's aggression to the east. They dragged out the negotiations, and their military missions arrived in Moscow as secondary delegations with unclear powers, which clearly demonstrated the lack of seriousness of their intentions.The British mission was headed by the King's aide-de-camp, Admiral P. Drax, and the French one by General J. Doumenc, a member of the Supreme War Council. Both missions arrived in Moscow only on August 11, consisted of secondary figures, and did not have the authority to sign agreements. By comparison, the Soviet delegation was headed by the People's Commissar of Defense, Marshal K. E. Voroshilov, who had all the necessary authority.Great Britain sought above all to contain Hitler and did not want to bind itself to specific military obligations in the East. France was more interested in a military alliance, but depended on London and did not have an independent policy on this issue.
>>545120582its the rebbies plan executed by jews that occupy the american government, namely victoria newland. schnerson called for a slav genocide to create 'holy Jerusalem' iirc
>>545121008I'm aware of all that, that was more reasons to why the USSR refused to trust the Anglo all the way until July 1941, and why they wanted an actual alliance with some other world power as they perpetually feared isolation. Germany was their hope, but then Hitler came to power, and they tried to leverage their way into being recognized as a legitimate state in the eyes of the western powers by spearheading the anti-fascist movement.Once that failed, they were approached by Ribbentrop and were offered very pragmatic deals, so they coped and hoped that the Reich's ideologic claims were not that serious after all. The Reich ended up being their hope, a misplaced one, one that wiped out all the young Bolshevik stock.That's not even mentioning their crazy ambition to outlast the "imperialists," as those would all kill each other off in their "Second Imperialist war" and finally the conditions for a proper revolution would be born again.
>>545111280>still fight each other to the death I wonder how that happened
>>545120868>Basically, in 1939 Poland got what it deserved, but after 1945 Poland was saved and they should be thankful. The latter is what you quoted as "an attempt to save Polish people."The old stance was that 1939 was an attempt to save people - both from Nazis and from incompetent Polish burgeoise. The only regional difference in retellings was which nationality of saved people was emphasized. The recognition of the pact (and that the invasion had any other motives that tremendous good will and concern of a brotherly nation) only came during the last days of Soviet Union and the perception didn't shift for long enough that I still had been told as much by a Russian coworker in late 00s. I also vaguely recall some bullshit surrounding that politically some time around Crimea but it's very likely it was a one-sided cry from Poland reacting to some retarded old foreign politician saying something retarded out loud, a long and storied Polish tradition.>And I believe I've provided an honest rundown on this media pulse.It is a very annoying subject to track, to be honest. It seems that every week there's news of Duma finding a new way in which Russia and Soviet Union never have done any wrong, and even dismising half of them as soft propaganda chatter, one does have to wonder. I guess it's fair to assume a lot of people, especially younger ones that had more access to independent education are generally harder to keep in the dark, even if one wanted to, but then again I've seen how delusional they can easily be made in Poland (or Ukraine, for that matter). Doesn't help that the Special Political Situation makes it nigh-impossible to have a discussion without someone (paid or unpaid) trying to derail it into open warfare, no matter where.
>>545120981>It's actually funny how many narratives would collapse if the state were to openly admit that yes, the USSR was willing to join the Reich's new world order, if the conditions would have allowed for that to happen (i.e. no invasion of each other).is it bad thing? no war sounds nice.
>>545116914>nope. Lexical Similarity: Linguistic studies show Ukrainian and Russian share about 62% of their vocabularylol yeah romani-hungarian west ua cadaver dialect they push as modern ukr language certainly is different. Oh well it's not as if someone spoke it anyway. Meanwhile Ukraine rewrites their 1900 classics because they sound too russian because duh it's just south village russian with few funny local (still slavic) words here and there yo can guess from a context.
>>545116914>nope. Lexical Similarity: Linguistic studies show Ukrainian and Russian share about 62% of their vocabularylol yeah romani-hungarian west ua cadaver dialect they push as modern ukr language certainly is different. No wonder fags like you push this disinfo everywhere so hard. Meanwhile Ukraine rewrites their 1900 classics because they sound too russian because duh it's just south village russian with few ethnic local (still slavic) words here and there yo can guess from a context.
>>545122285>The old stance was that 1939 was an attempt to save peopleOh yeah, I've heard that one from older people. It's not as propagated anymore, but it makes pensioners seethe if you as much as suggest that maybe that was not how things went.Nowadays it's served under the lens of protecting own interests. Like, the Polish government was absent and if the USSR hadn't done what it did, then the Reich would have simply gotten the entire pie for themselves, and the new borders would have ended up somewhere way east, so what was done was unquestionably good and sound actually.>reacting to some retarded old foreign politician saying something retarded out loudHappens all the time over here, and people at large are yet to discover this insanity as a thing that takes place, so you guys are apparently ahead of us in this process.>late 00s>some bullshit surrounding that politically some time around CrimeaThat's a good timeframe. The deal with this entire time is that the people really didn't want to care about politics. As I've read in some British press once - they were "politically passive." Naive, in other words. It was a pensioner thing to care about it back then. There was too much shit on the platter to care about any of that history or politics or whatever. Everyone was promised the modernity where none of that matters anyway.So people all just consumed the narratives uncritically. Each country, their own. Until things broke and couldn't be ignored anymore.Before Crimea everyone seemed to roll with whatever firmware was implanted in them. Crimea itself was orders of magnitude smaller of a catalyst compared to 2022. That continuous ignorance is a sin that countries and people now have to pay for. And until some heavy homework and reevaluation of the past events is made by everyone involved, the retribution is going to continue.So far this decade has been a decade of karmic eye-openers.Anyway, I'm gonna peace out. Thanks for civility.
>>545111280Its a complicated issue, but tldr its because of the priorities of the capitalist elite. In Europe the capitalist elite of France and Germany now have a tremendous amount of overlap with one another. In Ukraine the Russian capitalist elite was mostly evicted following Maidan. A key reason Germany was hostile to France in WW1 and 2 was because France was heavily protectionist so wouldnt allow German capital and goods to enter. One of Germanys conditions for victory was actually for France to remove trade barriers.Russia is in a similar position with Ukraine. But to be honest the biggest factor is Putin being a boomer retard who made a catastrophic miscalculation.
>>545123507Wouldn't have been a bad thing in itself, but that's not how it went down obviously, and you can offload accountability only so much.
>>545113778You see a post like this, then another russian flag saying ukranians are just russians in denial
>>545111280Ukies and russians are, in fact, quite different in terms of mentality.As for this conflict, it is purely political: russia is trying to be one of the world’s great powers - a center of influence, but it’s doing a fucking terrible job of it, all it manages to produce is a HIV-ridden, corrupt shithole. It’s no surprise, then, that any sensible country would, whenever possible, try to gravitate toward a more successful center of power, in Ukraine’s case, that means Europe and the West as a whole.>rreee but muh rotten westFor all its drawbacks, Europe is still incomparably more prosperous and serves as a far more sensible and advantageous center of power and ally than russia. Imagine a country with the level of economic "prosperity" of Kazakhstan and a level of political/social "development" somewhere between Iran and North Korea - that’s russia for you. A dump like that has no business aspiring to dominance anywhere in Europe, its place is entirely in Asia and Africa, let it go and rule there instead.
>>545111280Tired of white people killing each other Total non white purge when ?
>>545124330>Imagine a country with the level of economic "prosperity" of Kazakhstan and a level of political/social "development" somewhere between Iran and North Korea - that’s russia for youBy level of urbanization, education, and access to basic services, Russia is far closer to developed countries than Iran or North Korea. So why does the Ukrainian people set up other nations? Because instead of honoring agreements, they singled themselves out from other peoples as the most important, deceived their neighbors, and almost started a nuclear war. They will be studied… They will be condemned. The story of Kvartal 95, or how vanity almost cost other peoples their lives.
>>545119981If Mexico voluntarily joined a China-led military alliance and deployed Chinese missiles on its territory, the United States would not accept this - just as it did not accept Soviet missiles in Cuba in 1962. Voluntary or not, it is a threat.
>>545125188>posting PPP thirdy cope, not even per capitaBy this logic, India is somehow better that France. Anyway, your pic is a bullshit overall.>By level of urbanization, education, and access to basic servicesProbably, but in terms of crime rate, HIV-rate, corruption rate, level of freedom and by several other equally important metrics, it’s closer to Africa or the worst parts of Latin America. So it’s still a shithole, still a shitty choice, especially compared to Europe.
