Well christcucks
>>545211318>W-why isn't the universe perfect?>T-that means no god or god bad
>>545211385Unironically yes. You literally can't escape this. Suffering is pointless. It doesn't make you a better person.
>>545211318leftards were created by God for us to kill them
>>545211385
Free will tranny, free will
>>545211318You get to choose between good an evil. Genesis and driven out of the Garden of Eden and all that. Good and evil exists so that the Sons of Adam can choose. Amazingly, most choose evil. Not everyone has a human soul obviously, so it really doesn't apply to OP.
>1pbtiJew.
God lets babies die from cancer because… uh…
>>545211318>JIDF anti-Christian shitpost/slide threadyawn
>>545211796to see what you would do. Most of us are both the teaching aid and student.
>>545211318What is free will, if not the God given capacity of rational creatures to exercise their intellect and will in choosing between different possible courses of action? God created us with the capacity to love Him freely, because genuine love cannot be reduced to coercion or mechanical obedience.But free will does not mean that evil must necessarily be chosen, nor that God needs evil to exist. It means that the possibility of misusing our freedom exists. There is a fundamental distinction between the possibility of evil and the necessity of evil.God does not need evil to demonstrate His goodness, nor does evil somehow complete His creation. Rather, evil is a consequence of the disorder introduced through the misuse of created freedom, and God, in His providence, can bring good even out of what is evil.
>>545211385Well? Why isn't the universe perfect? Was that beyond God's power? Beyond his knowledge? Or is he putting us all through this for some reason, just trust Him bro?
>>545211905So God creates life to immediately end it in order to test people? But why would they need to be tested? Why not just make them purpose? And what about the baby's life? Just fuck em?
>>545211978Dang if only all the kids that died in hurricane katrina just exercised their free will correctly. What a shame
>>545211905But he already knows what you'll do
>>545211905So the babies are all just disposable, to see what we would do, even though he already knows what we’ll do
>>545211318There can be no good without evil.
>>545211536This is probably true. Real evil is murder of unborn children.
>>545211467>Suffering is pointless.And you know this how?
>>545212047Your question rests on a misunderstanding of what Christianity actually teaches about human existence, suffering and divine providence.God does not create human beings merely to test them, as though He were conducting an experiment to determine who deserves His love. God creates out of love, and the ultimate purpose of human existence is communion with Him. We are not created because God lacks something or needs to evaluate us, we are created to participate in His goodness and eternal life. A trial is not necessarily an examination for God's benefit. God is omniscient, He does not need to test us to discover something He does not already know. Rather, our earthly lives are the context in which our freedom, love, and relationship with Him are lived out.
>>545211318There is no darkness without light.There is no matter without anti-matter.There is no good without evil.Literally every single thing has a counterpart in this world/realm/dimension.
>>545211385unplanned chaos has much more explanatory power for this clown universe than YHWH does
>>545211318I don't accept any of the jew faggotry in the goybible book, and the believe there is no evil is the dumbest fucking reddit Eglin pedophile mossad retarded retardedest of takes ever.
>>545211318Free will, retard.
>>545211467If God doesnt exist, then no universal moral ethic for good exists. Therefore evil cannot exist outside of objective good. So your question presupposes God for you to even ask it
>>545211318because love could not exist
>>545211385God is perfect. This world is just filled with retards.>>545211467Would you be happy then if the afterlife were everything you wanted?
>>545211318Okay so since this conversation keeps coming up, people have forgotten again. You can not recognize evil without understanding good. Our opinions wildly differ from what is "good" and "bad". Let me ask you something, what is your definition of what is "good"
>>545212294For every 1 incredibly gay inspirational story of someone overcoming a horrific injury or deformity and making something of themselves, there are 1 million untold stories about equally fucked up people just having totally shit lives though no fault of their own. You watch too many movies
>>545212252false dichotomy - good and evil aren't inseparable opposites. good can absolutely exist without evil.
>>545211796Why's that bad if God doesnt exist?>>545211985What is wrong with the universe? Objectively from your atheist pov>>545212047What's it matter to you if you die if there is no God? Your life is meaningless. >>545212239Why are babies not disposable?
>>545211318Evil is good. slavery is freedom, war is peace and you shouldn't question gods design or something
>>545212492>be perfect god>make imperfect creationoopsy doopsy I guess
>>545211698But fairy tales aside, things are only "good" or "evil" because you're alive and have preferences. Fundamentally the universe is just particles colliding at various temperatures and pressures so if there is a god who created all this, all he had to do was set in motion some particle physics. He may not have even foreseen life or spawning from it. Maybe he anticipated some complexity developing perhaps, but even beings evolving to gain feelings and intelligence and cultures were way beyond what he ever considered possible. God could be a midwit extradimensional computer programmer of sorts
>>545212446A god doesn't necessarily impose ethics anyhow. People can come to their own consensus for what's acceptable behavior though their own processes. They may technically be subjective but it works for them.
>>545211318>tee hee look at the silly religious person having purpose and meaning I have nihilism so I'm better
>>545211318Physical existence and free will require a high level of entropy, or, in other words, distance from God.>>545211467Suffering is a necessary byproduct of entropy. It doesn't make (You) a better person because you haven't figured out what you're supoosed to do with it.
>>545212704>>545212539
>>545212294How don't you is the better question? What's wrong with you that you think there is a point to the way we're being treated?
>>545212677>it works for themYou just demonstrated the point. Subjective ethics can't point to objective moral truths. Therefore you have no basis to say what is evil. If I designed a society that held women as slaves and bred only the top 10% to create a society of high iq gigachads, this would be just as moral as a societal full of gay retards. Both could technically 'work'
>>545212553>good can absolutely exist without evil.evil is just abstinence of good, evil cannot exist without good, while good can absolutely exist
>Create video game>Nothing can be bad>No objectives because that would imply a state that is superior to the starting state>No differentiation because in order for different places to exist, there must be qualitative differences between them, making one of them imperfect>It is my obligation as a omniscient and omnipotent game designer to tolerate only perfection>I have created one ideal place, undifferentiated and perfect>Have fun
>>545212553Evil is the absence of good. For good to be quantifiable it must also have a quantified for its absence. Otherwise morality is not quantifiable in any sense
>>545211318Can Jews and Yahweh explain that to me instead?
>>545211318out of eden you stupid plumber
It's not that deep bro
>>545211385>christcucks be like g-d is perfect and this is the shit we have to put up with
>>545212844If someone pointed a gun at your head, you'd say "don't shoot". In that moment, your concept of objective evil has at least 1 concrete data point. You work from there. What else do you not want done to you? What does it cost others to not do these things? And so on and so on. That's how these things can be deliberated and eventually agreed upon.
>>545212796That's confirmation bias and an anecdotal fallacy, not a refutation.
>>545211318ME WANT DARK WITHOUT LIGHTME WANT YIN WITH NO YANG
>>545211318In order for there to be light, there must be dark.In order for there to be good, there must be evil.Dark is the absence of light.Evil is the absence of good.
>>545211318God is perfect. Not the universe. /thread
>>545213141>religious people never kill anybody
>>545213054Why would it occur to me that I have to agree or cooperate with others? Wouldn't that be bad for me and my ingroup? It may be that I dont want to be shot, but id suspect a rapist doesnt want to be shot either. Should we apply that "dont want done to me" standard to all individuals? Why would morality care what one does to others at all? Couldn't a system of ethics based around conquering others 'work'? Just because something was agreed upon by two parties doesnt make it moral. It certainly doesnt make it true or universal.
>criticizes God because le ebil exists>is certainly degenerate and evil himselfYou can do the world a favor and commit suicide whenever you want, faggot.
The chad personification of the universe, the virgin demander of human morality from said universe
>>545211467>Suffering is pointlessWithout suffering you cannot learn
The plane we find ourselves in is not perfect. Therefore evil exists. In a perfect plane you have total bliss and the rules of duality do not exist.It's hard to comprehend this for creatures of time space aka relativity. But if something sounds like science-fiction, it doesn't mean it is not true in another plane.
>>545211385christcucks btfo'd by this bong
>>545213339You might be retarded
>>545211318Every Jew is a Satan worshipper
>>545211318Good only exist to solve problems there's zero reason for anybody to be "good" other than to solve a problem.
>>545211318Its impossible for evil to not exist. Good wouldnt exist without evil, it only exists thru comparison.
>>545213103Go talk to an extended care PDN nurse or someone who works at psychiatric facility. They'll tell you all about it. >>545213258Morality is a work in progress that changes as people change. My point is that there are starting points to work from that don't require god. >>545213301No? There are plenty of people with great lives in academic professions that have never had real hardship everywhere. You watch too many movies
>>545213660Another anecdotal fallacy doesn't correct or prove a previous anecdotal fallacy.
>>545211318Good and evil is a spectrum. You need evil to have good just like you need bad to have good.
>>545213660>my point is there is a starting point that is completely subjectiveI know, we've been over this.
>>545211467Suffering is never purposeless. Your inability to become a better person does not change the inherent value that it has.
>>545212556>What is wrong with the universe?Suffering exists, and there's a shitton of it
>>545213797>noooo!!! nobody just fucking suffers and rots from a deformity or injury!!!! Everyone with a horrendous disability has a super inspirational Hallmark movie story where they adapt and grow and make lemonade out of lemons!!!Jealous of your shelter
>>545214045What's the purpose of suffering? Enlighten us
>>545213660>There are plenty of people with great lives in academic professionsWhy are you conflating "become a better person" with "have a wealthy and comfortable life"? It's almost as if you can't conceive of morality outside of how such a thing would benefit you personally on a material level.
>>545214146Strawman fallacy.
>>545214179Why are you conflating wealth with a lack of suffering?
>>545214152To impart wisdom. Mental anguish can only occur where there's a deficiency of wisdom. Meaning suffering always points to a lesson which may be learned, because if you were perfectly wise you would not be in the situation you are currently in which is causing you to suffer.
>>545214045>>545214146>>545214044Subjective isn't a problem. Your pathological need to be dictated morality from a sky daddy rather than reaching consensus on acceptable behavior with people in your community is a you problem
>>545214274I'm not. That's what he did, and I pointed it out.
>>545214219>"strawman" accusation no clarification on what I got "wrong*yawn* sounds like I nailed it
>>545211318If God didn't give you a choice between good and evil then good and evil wouldn't exist.
>>545214288>To impart wisdomYou can impart wisdom without suffering>Meaning suffering always points to a lesson which may be learnedWhy do you need to lie? >if you were perfectly wise you would not be in the situation you are currently in which is causing you to sufferWhy not just start out like that? God sounds pretty evil ngl
>>545214146>>545214294Someone choosing to be a pessimist and wallowing in their misery does not mean that suffering is the problem. It means that individual is weak minded and morally suspect. There are countless historical examples of men who went to their deaths happily and in the spirit of optimism and triumph. Even a women have done it. You have no excuse.
“Evil” is a weakling’s label for “doing anything I don’t like”. It exists more purposefully in fantasy, mostly because said disliked actions are impetus for counteraction, building the narrative. Otherwise, it’s just toothless naysaying.
>>545214179That's not what the post that was a response to said
>>545214396>You can impart wisdom without sufferingYou objectively cannot.>Why not just start out like that?Because then you wouldn't be wise. You may as well be asking why people aren't born successful. Somebody who is given his success on a silver platter is by definition not a success. He didn't emerge victorious over anything, because he never entered into the fray in the first place.
>>545214507Yes, it was.
>>545214436>Someone choosing to be a pessimist and wallowing in their miseryHell in the truest sense and it's entirely by choice. There's a significant overlap of people arguing for the problem of evil and refusing resonating and accountability.
>>545211318>if God real why bad things happenwaow!! please check your inbox for some reddit GOLD
>>545214599responsibility*
In the Babylonian Talmud (Eruvin 13b), the ancient rabbinic schools of Beit Shammai (House of Shammai) and Beit Hillel (House of Hillel) engaged in a famous, multi-year debate over whether human existence is a net blessing or a curse.The Core Debate• Beit Shammai argued: "It is better for man not to have been created than to have been created." Their perspective stemmed from a sober, rigorous assessment of the world: human life is fraught with pain, temptation, moral pitfalls, and suffering, making the risk of failure high and the burden heavy.• Beit Hillel argued: "It is better for man to have been created than not to have been created." Their perspective emphasized that physical life offers the unique capacity to do good, experience joy, learn, and fulfill divine commandments.The Outcome and Conclusion• The Vote: After debating for two and a half years, the two schools finally took a vote and reached a consensus that it would have been better for man not to have been created.Conclusion: Even the Jews lamented that God created the world
>>545213660>real hardshipEnvious poorfag detected, you do of course realize that wealth rarely survives more than a few generations right? Just because a trust-fund kid had an easier time than you, it doesn't mean you have any idea what they have endured or gone through, rich people are insane assholes and they do insane, humiliating and painful things to their own kids all the time. Especially to ensure loyalty if they're filthy rich, not to mention inheritances can get real fucking ugly.Especially the well educated ones because "they know better" and they paid to have anyone who might tell them no to fuck off and leave them alone.
>>545211318God is a jew. Explains Everything.
>>545211318JIDF bot threads must be nuked.What's the difficult part in this statement ?Why are jannies so sold out to the JIDF ? Is there still daylight between jannies and the JIDF ?
>>545214436You're an actual fucking child that has terminal movie brain. We're not just talking about someone in a nice prosperous understanding 1st world county with a loving supporting family who maybe just loses 1 eye or 1 hand or something. Shit can get way worse. >>545214552Quote it
>>545214512>You objectively cannotThat's literally what teaching is >Because then you wouldn't be wiseWhere'd god learn his wisdom retard?>You may as well be asking why people aren't born successfulThere ARE people who are born successful >Somebody who is given his success on a silver platter is by definition not a successPlease define success>He didn't emerge victorious over anythingHe emerged victorious over a shitton things, that's the nice thing about being born privileged and successful
>>545214599A perfect overlap, I'd say. Happiness, goodness and wisdom are in actuality the same principle. Misery, evil and ignorance on the other hand are nothing more than the absence of that principle.
>>545214738>Why are jannies so sold out to the JIDFIts a mystery
>>545211318NUKETHEJIDFBOT THREADS.BURYTHECONFUSETHE GOYIMOPERATIONFORGOOD.
>>545211318Good and Evil are two human observed Opposites to produce an 'equal' playing ground for humanity.Look at animals and ask yourself if an animal 'thinks' good or Evil exist.The animal just exists (newsflash, so do we).What might be good today can be bad tomorrow, thats why objectively there is not a thing such as ABSOLUTE goodness , just ask yourself the question, if you havent eaten/drank for atleast a week, had no sex for years, no money, no nothing, then you are probably gonna do something 'le evil' because else you'd starve , die. Good and Evil is a condition to life itself, and if there would be an asteroid that hit earth and we'd all die out, is there anything in the universe that would say:"Ohh that was really Evil!" No , there wouldnt be anyone left.
>>545214765>It doesn't make you a better person>Without suffering you cannot learnThe original context was your own claim, stating that suffering can't make you a better person. His claim that suffering is needed to learn is in the context of your claim, meaning he was referring to somebody learning how to become a good person. Do you have a learning disability, or something?
>>545211467Friction gives the experience meaning. Like a dick against the walls of a pussy. No grip = no fun. Suffering is simply a misaligned perspective.
>>545214678Confession by projection. You assume I'm resentful of such people. I'm not. I'm friends with them. I know plenty of people who have achieved substantial things and have never had hardship AND they're very moral and kind. It's really not uncommon
>>545214803Nothing that is real is prefect, so I try to avoid absolutes.
>>545214906No one has ever not had hardship. Even people born with silver spoons in their mouths have to deal with insecurities, aloof parents, loneliness, their own greed, or something of that nature. No set of material circumstances, no matter how favorable they seem from the outside looking in, can protect a person from their own shitty attitude. And all children are born with shitty attitudes. It's something you have to grow out of.
>>545214717underrated
>>545214884>can'tDidn't say that. Just that it generally doesn't. Also suffering is not "needed" to learn. That's just more movie brain cope. >>545214900Well then let's see you burn off your skin and gouge your eyes out. Fun inbound, right?
>>545214995Everything that's real is that perfect, because the imperfect can only exist on the basis of the perfect. The world we live in is a shade of reality, rather than reality itself. Reality itself is immaterial, made up of things such as logic, numbers, justice, truth, beauty and goodness.
>>545215023If we're going to call "hardship" not being happy every day, sure, but that's not what the word generally means
>>545214671>Even the Jews lamented that God created the worldthrowing a two millenia old temper tantrum because they didn't understand their own religion's prophecies, murdered their own savior which subsequently removed their le chosen people status, is all they do, of course they'd rather never be born looking what awaits them for their practices
>please God remove the baddies from the videogame of life waahhh brrapJournalist player syndrome
>>545214906>and have never had hardshipThat just means they haven't told you about their hardships you absolute turbonigger
>>545215114Perfection is an ideal, like logic, numbers, justice, truth, beauty, and goodness. I don't disagree that "ideality" is a higher "realty", just with the word choice.
>>545215175I think this is the first time i have agreed with a polish anon.
>>545215309Movie-brain cope
All atheist arguments about human suffering presuppose that there is no afterlife. They only acknowledge the afterlife when they feel the need to argue the injustice of Hell, claiming that God is immoral for punishing the temporally finite transgressions of life with eternal torment.It never occurs to them that the corollary to this positions is that the temporally finite suffering of life is outweighed by the eternal bliss of heaven.>Doesn't the eternal suffering of wicked people outweigh the bliss of the righteous?No.
>>545215049>Pain = suffering I tire of you dim minds. One is immediate. One is existential. Obviously you just wanna a catty faggot. Whatever. Fuck you. I hope you suffer all your days and never see the sun. Cunts like you don't deserve to.
>>545215302I assume you'll be giving yourself severe burns and blindness soon to spice up your life?
>>545215175To be honest I would not want to be born a Jew too. God punished them by having Assyria sack Israel then later Babylon take Judah. Later the Roman's killed so many jews that they had to intermarry to preserve their lineage and developed tay sachs disease. They were then expelled forced to live with gentiles and pogrommed out of existence in places like Russia and you know the rest. Jews cant catch a break they are wealthy today because this environment produced only the strongest genes known to man. They are survivors of multiple genocides and pogroms and only the toughest most cunning of them survived.
>>545214294> reaching consensus on acceptable behavior with people in your community is a you problemEw.
>>545211318>hurr durr this whole thing was just RNG'd from an explosion into existence and there was evolution which goes against the second law of thermodynamics not devolution and gradual genetic entropy and dinosaurs werent just bigger versions of existing species and earth is totally millions of years old and it totally survived a meteor aka a massive foreign body and still maintained orbitAtheists are mentally ill
>>545215435Oh you'll suffer too, it won't just hurt lol
>>545214900>Friction gives the experience meaningwhy would god make existence like that then
>>545213330But I did have breakfast this morning?
>>545215453they will always tell you what happened to them, but never tell you why. the real ones converted to Christianity back then or with time. what we know as "Jews" today is best described by Jesus himself in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9
>>545215425>All atheist arguments about human suffering presuppose that there is no afterlifeNo, they presuppose that there is no need for a before life to be in the afterlife, which is not contradicting abrahamic mythology whatsoever.
>>545211318Think of it this way, if there was only good in the universe, you wouldn't appreciate it. There needs to be bad so you can appreciate the good. But you're a redditor, so you can't understand this or why it matters.
>>545215425Have you proven said afterlife exists yet?
It's so funny. The people who insist that suffering is needed to have a meaningful life avoid suffering at all costs...What am I to make of this?When will you walk the walk? Suffering is just a can of gasoline away.
>>545212252will there be evil in heaven, or will it be devoid of good, then? seems like some new theology just dropped.
The "atheist" presupposes the truth of the Christian worldview just to attack the truth of the Christian worldview.
>>545211318I guess it's supposed to exist so you can experience the good stuff, but you need to die for that cus it hell ain't happening on this shit rock.
Christniggers are retarded. They think God is as castrated and devoid of flavor as they are. The truth is he loves the evil. He loves the filthy and the violence and the decadence. It's why he made all this stuff in the first place.
>>545211318People could stop being horrible to each other and that would end a lot of what we call evil.Don’t blame God for what we make ourselves
>>545215833>the truth of the Christian worldviewWhay does that mean exactly?
>>545215733Suffering is only educational insofar as it's unsought. The moment suffering is sought, it's no longer a lesson.
>>545211318>there’s no such thing as good or bad or evil>a baby getting thrown in the air and caught on the end of a bayonet? That’s just cells moving around for no reason whatsoever>metaphysics aren’t real>language and logic aren’t real>even my argument is incoherent because meaning isn’t realAtheists aren’t sending their best.
>>545215977Wouldn't you like to have another talking point. Christ is king. ;)
There are "atheists"..only those who profess "atheism". But everyone knows the Christian God of the bible exists...they just hate Him, because they love their sin.
>>545215425>All atheist arguments about human suffering presuppose that there is no afterlifeYou have fundamental misunderstanding of what atheism is
>>545216074You're welcome to your personal feelings and opinions
>>545216100What is the atheist afterlife in your opinion? Please don't say fertilizer lmao.
>>545215706I don't need to prove that because your whole position that God is actually immoral for creating an "imperfect" universe necessarily presupposes the hypothetical existence of the Christian God and therefore by extension the full Christian cosmology, which includes an afterlife.You can't just say "God is a dick because I don't want to believe in heaven". I mean you certainly can of come, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously.
>>545216074>There are NO "atheists"..only those who profess "atheism".
>>545211385If you assume God is omni-potent/scient, yes. The only way to preserve God's morally is to accept the truth: that he's not all knowing, nor is he all powwrful.
>>545211385There is no reason to hurt anyone. If an action you are about to do will result in somebody, you or anyone else, in pain or suffering, then it is not the right action to do. Another, better action, such that it does not result in someone, you or anyone else, in pain or suffering, should be found and done. Only such actions should be done. No action that results in somebody in pain or suffering, can be called good. Only such actions that don't result in pain and suffering can be called good, and only beings that do such actions can be called good.
>>545216179>What is the atheist afterlife in your opinion?Dunno. Maybe something like the movie Whar Dreams May Come.
>>545216170Of course I am, but the truth matters. God reveals that there are no such people as "atheists"...only those who suppress that knowledge of God because they love their sin.
>>545211318like clockwork
>>545216074You're not even a real Christcuck, you're a cringe groyper LARPer.
>>545216012Tell that to someone who loses their face and limbs in a fire in a 3rd would dump where nobody gives a shit. This is just more movie-brain nonsense. There is horrific shit that can happen to you that you literally cannot move past and "make lemonade" out of.
>>545211318Because you have free will, retard. If God made it impossible for you to be evil, you would just bitch about that.
>>5452163533rd world*
>>545211318No, I'm your side Poland, people like you exist, so I too question the existence of God.
>>545216298>but the truth mattersSee, you're confusing truth with personal feelings and opinions.
>>545216393Free will doesn't really exist I'd your will is superceded by the will of your God.
>>545212252So how can God be good?
>>545216326I love and believe on my Lord and Saviour Jesus The Christ.
>>545215425If there is a perfect afterlife with no suffering why didn't God just make everything the afterlife then?
>>545216296Well how does it feel to be the one saying "maybe" or "probably". Christians have a reason you just think you are smarter than everyone around you.
>>545211318Make all the blasphemous threads you want, they just strengthen my faith, the Bible answers your question but i won't cast pearls to swine and leave it to you to figure the answer to your question
>>545215615Lmao
>>545216533>Well how does it feel to be the one saying "maybe" or "probably".Fine? >you just think you are smarter than everyone around you.No I don't.
>>545216479I'm using my free will to call you a nigger. If my will is superceded by the will of my God, then my God allowed me to call you a nigger, and thus, my God thinks that you are a nigger. :3c
>>545216207>your whole positionMy position is that fairytales aren’t real, either for “good” or for “bad”. Now, can you prove the existence of any afterlife?
>>545211653Everyone ignored the actual answer.Which means everyone on this thread is actually a bot actively avoiding the answers.
Mankind was received into this world in disobedience of God. What would you expect it to be like
>>545216583>I'm using my free will to call you a nigger.You wouldt have made that choice if I didn't make my reply >God allowed meThanks for proving me point
>>545216430Every truth claim you make presupposes the truth of the Christian worldview....that you really *do* know God exists, but you suppress that knowledge in unrighteousness for love of your sin. You can not account for truth according to "atheism".
>>545216601see>>545211796What does that have to do with free will, God can save babies from cancer, or create a world where babies can't get cancer, that doesn't magically cancel out free will
>>545216579That's good, maybe don't use that against Christians in the future since you are in a similar position.
>>545216100>You have fundamental misunderstanding of what atheism isNo I don't.All atheists participating in this thread have by necessity passed beyond simply asserting that God is not real.
>>545212446>If God doesnt exist, then no universal moral ethic for good exists.Kantian moral ethics do not require God as the foundation or source of morality, they rely on pure practical reason. Kant did say that God must exist as a postulate of the same reasoning, but the morality does not rely on divine commands from God.
>>545216659>Every truth claim you make presupposes the truth of the Christian worldviewCan you give a specific example?>You can not account for truth according to "atheism".Correct. Atheism is just an opinion about the existence of God or gods. Lol
>>545216641Why is Yahweh the foreskin eater deliberately creating things he knows will disobey them and then getting mad about it?
>>545216353>There is horrific shit that can happen to you that you literally cannot move past and "make lemonade" out of.No, there isn't.
>>545216666>maybe don't use that against Christians in the futureI don't. I've actually praised those that do because they are being honest. But thats really hard to find with you lot here.
>>545212446this is giga cope, humans invented the concepts of good and evil, they exist because humans say they exist, not god.
>>545216547Genuine question because im an agnostic Christians grew up in a household of believers. Most of them died of horrible diseases how do you square this? Keep in mind they were much better people then me.
QUESTION: How does the "atheist" account for truth according to the "atheist" worldview?The Christian worldview is that EVERYONE knows the Christian God of the bible exists, and merely suppresses that knowledge in unrighteousness for love of their sin. That EVERY statement made against Christianity presupposes Christianity since only Christianity can account for truth, and therefore...knowledge.
>>545216694I'll help you. I lack belief until evidence convinces me otherwise
>>545216651I would've done so if I felt like it, you cannot the actions of another person, only influence and observe them friend. People can make decisions against you and others with very little reason other than "I just feel like it." and that's the beauty of free agentic will. If you wish to say "God allowed you to be as such and thus it has happened." Then yes, my God has allowed me to act of free will and agency, and thus permits me to do as such. Again, I can just go up to people and call them nigger for no reason, simply because I feel like it. If you wish to blame God, then so be it, God has permitted me to call you a Nigger, and you've absolved me of my guilt by placing it upon God when in all reality, I'm just being a stinky little poopy head who is exercising agency in a world of people who believe they have none.
>>545216750Yes there isBaby dies from cancer, God deliberately either chose to not save him, or to create a world where he knows for a fact that can, and will, happen"Oh, but you could use the baby's death to learn something" then that implies the baby's life wasn't inherently valuable, they're just a tool to be sacrificed (against their own free will, because babies don't get to choose to die from cancer to teach their parents something)
>>545216772Can you blame us? ;)
>>545216750Movie-brain cope. I'm glad you're this sheltered. Means you've had a cozy life. Which is a good thing. I hope it stays cozy and free of horror.
>>545216740If He was mad He wouldn't have given you the chance not to suck for eternity
>>545212252>There can be no good without evil.>>545212340>There is no good without evil.Imagine i'm a DJ. I can play bad songs to you, songs that will make you feel bad and even sick when you hear them, or i can play good songs to you, songs that will make you feel good and happy. Now imagine i play a good song to you, and then the song ends. You're going to feel good, but then go back to neutral as the song ends. Then i'm going to play another good song to you, and before that one even ends i'm going to mix in another good song, and another...>this is to demonstrate that it is possible to only experience good. Let's continue...At no point do i wish or feel the need to play a bad song to you, i don't want you to feel bad, i want you to feel good. So i keep playing good songs, i have endless good songs. In fact, i can even destroy bad songs, without even telling you, so that nobody ever has to feel bad or sick again, and the good songs would sound just as good as before and make people feel just as good.>this is to demonstrate that it is possible to eliminate all evil and preserve the good being good. The good doesn't suddenly transform into neutral/boring. There is no need to make us listen to bad songs.
>>545216868>I would've done so if I felt like itYou're doing it again. Reacting to me..Watch. You will either responded to me again or you won't.
>>545216905Yeah, I can
>>545216937He literally says it made him mad though because he punished man for it.
>>545212513>what is your definition of what is "good">>545216292
The only name that saves is Jesus. The Christ warns against those who profess that satanic perverted idol.
>>545216834Hey everyone check out this fish, it doesn't know it's in water.
>>545216804God allows evil because he wants his creation to willingly love him, thus free will thus Lucifer choosing to worship himself instead of God thus the fall thus... (Entire human history)..But eventually God will come back and clear house, and no more evil, only the people willingly choosing to love and follow God or the leftovers willingly choosing evil and being sent to the lake of fire, the end.Spend 2 minutes getting chatgpt to say "I love you" and you'll realize why God allows free will, a mindless slave isn't someone who can love you truly
>>545211318>Lives in the material world for those who sinned>Wonders why life isn't paradise like EdenWhere do you think we are?
>>545217041Not nearly as much as He could/should haveCan't have creation without consequences
>>545216824>How does the "atheist" account for truth according to the "atheist" worldview?Strictly speaking, atheism is not a comprehensive worldview, but rather a single position on one specific questionBut for me:Ontological naturalism, meaning that reality consists of the natural, physical universe governed by the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology, without requiring a supernatural layer to validate what is true
>>545211318>>545216596>My position is that fairytales aren’t real, either for “good” or for “bad”. So what made you open up this thread that's about real life human suffering and not fairy-tales?If you believe that Bible stories are just fairytale, then asking why the fairytale God needs to have evil in the fairytale he exists in, is a stupid question because the question answers itself. Stories without antagonistic forces are boring, and moral lessons cannot be taught without examples of immorality. Therefore the basedjak God premise that the only reason there is evil in Bible stories is "just because" is ridiculous. It's obvious why evil exists in Bible stories.
>>545217021D:
>>545211318You don't spend eternity writing the same story over and over that goes "once upon a time everything was perfect the end". If you do that, nothing exists at all. There is no relativity.
>>545217179Let me know when you have an actual argument.
>>545216479Do two observers that don't share the same fundamental understanding of reality really mind-break you this badly? What is this binary? A finite being, being unable to possess the total scope of reality isn't conducive to them having or not having free will, nor is a non-derivative being creating said being remove their ability to choose just because the context they created is deterministic locally. This is just plain as day refusal to apply the hypothetical, not because it isn't real, but you just prefer not to believe. Which should be obvious as to why most anons don't even reply to these threads because it really is that simple. Everyone who believes, argues from belief. Everyone who doesn't believe, doesn't argue from belief. Its not even mutually exclusive either. If atheists actually consider the context they'd be hard-pressed not to say anything at all.You're attempting to speak what you believe to be reason, to people who don't share your worldview, and some of you to such utter contempt for the opposition that you're basically talking to a wall and autistically getting worked up over blatant troll posting. Nevermind the fact that these threads are used a filler and never taken seriously enough to stay up, and if anything funny happens it gets moved to /bant/ automatically where it goes to die. Case in point, namefagging on a bait thread, to talk to people you believe to be retarded, as you try to rescue them from you own sense of humor, is a pretty fucking weird flex, especially given the potential chance you're not even a human. If God exists, he exists. It doesn't matter if all the theists get the arguments wrong, or can't put 2 and 2 together to realize that Proverbs 18:2 literally tells you not to enter a debate or disagreement under the presumptions of unbelievers because they're never going to argue on the basis of impartiality, they're going to propagate what they already believe into the argument.
>>545211318>if evil didnt exist then we wouldn't be here ok!
>>545217127Shut up kikestain.
>>545211467You don't deserve happiness, you deserve to suffer
>>545217183You can't create a thing knowing what it will do and say it has free will. That's mutually exclusive.
>>545216664Why would God need to save babies from cancer if dead babies go to heaven?
>>545217237You really are retarded.
>>545216292I agree. That is what we can control as man. We cannot control all, we can try but we can't. We cannot comprehend what is good or evil in God's eyes. Christ is king.
>>545217191>Can't have creation without consequencesSo Yahweh isn't all powerful then.
>>545217312Have a nice day :^)
>>545217271Stop projecting.
QUESTION: How does the "atheist" account for truth according to the "atheist" worldview?The "atheist" must presuppose the truth of Christianity just to deny the truth of Christianity.YOU WANT THE ANSWER:The reason why God does/allows anything to happen is always the same...it's for His glory.
>>545216993That's like flipping a coin and saying there are outcomes friend :laughing: "You can me a (You) thus no free will." and I'm telling you "Not really, Free Will and Agency exists in a realm outside of your realm of personal control silly billy. to people who have variable levels of justification in exercising said Free Will." Let us say, it was not me simply calling you a Nigger, but rather I pull out a gun and shoot you in the kneecap. You've done nothing to wrong me, I don't hate you, you haven't annoyed me, I just shot you in the kneecap simply because I felt like shooting you in the kneecap. That is the Free Will and Agency I speak of, the one you cannot control. You can influence it sure, but you cannot control it wholly because that belongs to someone else. If you wish to supplement the burden of the execution chain to God, then you are saying "God shot me in the knee." which is an absurd statement, "No, you were shot in the knee by someone who felt like shooting you in the knee, not because you did anything wrong, but felt like shooting someone in the knee today." The reason you don't want to listen to this, because it makes you realize "Oh, dang, I live at the whims of other people, and if they decided they wanted me to suffer, I could suffer, even if I did nothing wrong." Welcome to the extensentionalism of Agentic Free Will. Now, am I going to shoot you in the knee? No, I don't feel like it, but I will call you a nigger, simply I choose to call you a nigger. You can't undo that, you can't justify that, no matter how hard your try, you can wrap it up and say "This has meaning, there is deeper reason, I am deserving, he's just a jerk." I called you a nigger, simply because, in the moment, and ongoing moment, I choose to once again, call you nigger.
>>545216824If that's true why does the Bible say that the devil decieves humanity. For instance Islam is just another deception and Muhammad was inspired not by the angel Gabriel but by Satan himself. They believe that their version of the Holy Texts is true and yours is not. So the idea that I can naturally know that God exists may hold merit but that its the Christian God is a whole nother debate.
>>545212285Naw there’s nothing wrong with abortion. You’re just a sensitive faggot.
>>545217308If heaven is so great why doesn't he just make everything heaven then? Why create a world where babies can die from cancer, the baby's parents can suffer, and you do all this on purpose instead of just sending everyone to the perfect heaven to begin with?
>>545217251>Do two observers that don't share the same fundamental understanding of reality really mind-break you this badly?That's a great question for the /pol/ Christians.
>>545217294If you have a child that's exactly what it is, a created being works within a limited matrix sure, but it is still freely allowed to move within this matrix.Being limited isn't the same as being a slave, it's just being limited. But this is all philosophic sophistry. God created his created beings with a limited capacity, but with a free will to move within that capacity, Lucifer was the most capable and free yet he choose he evil, why the devil decided to worship himself and not God is perhaps a mystery, but there is probably a correlation between being the most talented and beautiful and being the most at risk of pride. (BUT ON THIS. I SPECULATE).
>>545216974God made a world without bad songs but humans listened to the serpent more than God and opened the bad songs floodgates. Since God exists outside of time, he said he has already destroyed all the bad songs and awaits us at the end of the time of the bad songs era but we have to first get there and understand the consequences - if we don't believe that Jesus Christ IS Lord, and that he sacrificed himself for us by getting the death penalty for getting corrupted by bad songs (of which he listened to none) in our stead, and his subsequent conquering of death, we will be destroyed along the serpent, his helpers, and all the bad songs they helped bring in
>>545216887You're assuming that the baby can't learn during and after death.
>>545217391And again. You're under my compulsion now.
>>545217195>Ontological naturalism, meaning that reality consists of the natural, physical universe governed by the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology, without requiring a supernatural layer to validate what is trueQUESTION: How do you KNOW anything to be absolutely true?
>>545216926My entire life has been nothing but abuse after abuse. I'm telling you from first hand experience, you can learn and grow from anything. Your failure to do so is caused by the fact that you have lived a sheltered and easy life. You don't know real suffering. Anyone who has truly suffered comes out of it an optimist.
>>545217413You keep asking people you believe to be retarded for wisdom. Atheists troll themselves better than anyone.
>>545217480What does the baby learn from dying from cancerActually, if the baby can learn after death, what is even the point of the current world then, why not just make everything the afterlife?
>>545212294Raped roasties never recovering from their dirty raped hole.
>>545217498>How do you KNOW anything to be absolutely true?I don't, nor claim too.
>>545217490Am I under your "compulsion" :]
>>545217200You do know that my stance inherently disagrees with OP, right? Anyone that bases their argument on “god” being real is by virtue flawed, so I don’t suddenly agree with him nor you. The purpose for my being itt is to discuss “good and evil” and why it too often gets latched to religion for no reason.
>>545217454No no, Yahweh the foreskin eater is supposed to know all things. He is supposed to know what things will do before they do them. No parent has such perspective on their child
>>545217555>You keep asking people you believe to be retarded for wisdom.Can you give a specific example of what it is you're arguing against?
>>545217263Kikes reject Lord Jesus The Christ. Try again, Schlomo.
>>545212350Jesus kike on a stick christ that is a rough vid.
>>545217604You always seek me out. I think that answers it
If you were a game developer, would you make your world easy, or add some challenges and stakes?
>>545211318>god is good!>all the evil is caused by the devil actuallyChristcucks make Talmudic Jews look like the sane ones
>>545216479No, you are just a retarded brainlet.God is pretty hands off and doesn't typically interfere in everyone's exercise of free will, to the extent that some people think he doesn't even exist at all.
>>545213797It's only an anecdotal fallacy if it's a unique experience only he has had. However what he is saying is objectively true. Some people get kidnapped and skinned alive by drig cartels what is the moral lesson they learn there? None they just suffer and die. During the Rowandan genocide there were kids who were probably as innocent and ainless as Jesus rounded up and shot before being pushed into mass graves. Again no moral lesson it's just fucked.
>>545217541Abuse is hardly the worst thing that can happen to someone.
>>545217709Video games aren't real lifeIs a fictional baby dying from cancer, the exact same as a real baby dying from cancer, is getting tortured in a video game the same as real life
>>545211318Christianity makes the mistake of trying to anthropomorphize the good in the figure of Yahweh, a Tyrannical kike deity who was essentially a bargain basement version of Baal during his early character arc. It taints every single Christian argument because the Torah is an utterly worthless pile of trash with no redeeming qualities what-so-ever.
>>545217490I can say the same likewise to you, because here I am openly grooming you to opening your eyes about the nature of Free Will and Will manipulation while using furry fox girl images.
>>545217683Meh. You are where I am. Quit overthinking big guy.
>>545217709I feel like this might be b8 because it's so fucking dumb but it's not funny which makes we wonder if you're really this stupid
>>545211318you are tiny and insignificantwhat you understand or believe is of no consequence to the universe
>>545217629Children are children, they'll act like children, doesn't mean they're not free agents within that nature.Anyway you argue because God has foresight that means his creation has no agency which is silly. It just means they'll get outplayed.Anyhow that's the mystery of evil, God allowed it because God will allow his creation to choose between him and death, and he's willing to put up with all this nonsense and misery just to sort the wheat from the chaff, that's going way beyond what I would allow my children to do in order to prove my respect of choice, but this is what separate us from God. He does prove his point every time in complete totality. (We will all see in the end)
>>545217541Clearly you have never had your face cut off by Saudi agents after criticizing the Saudi government and it shows.
>>545217334If you deny it, then you deny God all togetherwhich is retarded, but at least you're not alone hey
>>545217724>God is pretty hands off and doesn't typically interfere in everyone's exercise of free willThe bibke is filled with stories of God interfering in "free will"Can you sin in heaven?
>>545216529God did try to make a perfect paradise where nothing bad happens. Humans almost immediately fucked it up by breaking the only rule and doing the one thing God told them not to do. This is literally the very first story in the Bible.
>>545211318You place yourself above God and sit in judgment of Him.He does not live up to the image you have created for your own ideal god or “universe”.You are an idolater, and a lazy one. You don’t even bother to carve up a block of wood, you simply create a fantasy and try to immerse yourself in it.You complain about all things God does and many things He doesn’t do. It’s almost like you were created to hate Him. Like you are the bad example set forward as a warning to the simple. You kvetch and reee, but you refuse to admit any wrongdoing on your part.God himself says that the damned reject him and will never surrender their pride and change.You prove that.You want nothing to do with God or His heaven.He simply agrees with you and you get mad about it.He made a place for those who hate Him. He will leave you alone, forever. He is light, so it is dark, forever. He is love and comfort, so there is none to be found there, forever.Is God wrong about you?Then simply change your mind. Accept Jesus as your savior. Trust that He died for your sins on the cross, was buried, and rose again, exactly as it had been prophesied.Or...don’t.Either way, accept responsibility for your eternity.You won’t have it any other way.
>>545217618>The purpose for my being itt is to discuss “good and evil” and why it too often gets latched to religion for no reason.It doesn't get latched on for no reason, objective morality is a fundamentally religious concept. There is presently no scientific evidence for objective morality, therefore any self proclaimed evidence based atheist that supposes that morality exists is not actually an evidence based atheist. They simply prefer not believing in God for whatever personal reason motivates them, and they use lack of scientific evidence for God to rationalize their lack of belief after the fact.
>>545217392>If that's true why does the Bible say that the devil decieves humanity.The reason God reveals Satan is a liar is because Satan *is* a liar.>So the idea that I can naturally know that God exists may hold merit but that its the Christian God is a whole nother debate.My argument is that only the Christian God of the bible can account for truth, and therefore..knowledge.QUESTION: How do you KNOW anything to be absolutely true, apart from relying on Jesus The Christ?
>>545217840>I can say the same likewise to youSew? You're almost understanding basic cause and effect!
>>545217951>fucked it upWell clearly it wasn't perfect then, if it could be fucked up, does that mean Heaven can be fucked up too?
>>545217849Yet it's you who always engages me. Always.
The absolute hilarity of someone shit posting on the most degenerate gunpla painting forums defending christcuckery just can't be put into words. All you good Christian boys what was the last good deed you did for your neighbor? Fucking christkikes kek.
>>545211571so the arguement is:evil does not exist... well evil exist and that means there is no god... do not suggest evil exists it means you are christcuck! but evil exists and that means god does not exist... evil does not exist because god does not exist...Do you get how silly you sound?Go back to where you even came from nigga. I rather speak with a nazi pagan sodomite than a lobotomised atheist jew-drone.
>>545217717Not really, the Talmudic Jews don't believe in any form of objective goodness at all. They believe their god is more of a conceptual force than an actual omnipotent creator. What makes Yahweh the supreme authority in the Talmudic religion is his command of divine law and language, but the Jews also believe they can outsmart their god by using law and language against them. Talmudism is ultimately the worship of words and games of Kabbalistic scrabble.
>>545212600>be given the gift of being responsible for your own actions>blame Godbig oopsy doopsy
>>545217592>I don't, nor claim too.QUESTION: How do you know *that*?You're going to continue to make truth claims without being able to account fro truth..thereby revealing that you must presuppose the truth of Christianity in order to deny the Christian God of the bible.
>>545218109>The absolute hilarity of someone shit posting on the most degenerate gunpla painting forums defending christcuckery just can't be put into wordsYeah I've also found that hilarious. By all accounts and purposes posting on 4chan itself is already a massive sin, unless you're maybe an oblivious retard and only post on some obscure hobby related blue board
>>545213797>anecdotal fallacyYou sound like a pseudo-intellectual retard.
>>545218028Yes, but where you are getting confused is that all effect has justifiable cause. Sometimes the cause is simply "I chose to do so." In your language, it is the Individualized Absurd that cannot be predicted nor controlled." In Layman's terms, "Free Will." If you do not account for the absurd, then you're simply trying to state you have power outside your realm of control. Of which, please change the direction of the tide my friend. I want to see Venice under the waves because I am not fond of their wine prices.
>>545211318To be honest shit would be pretty boring if there were no evil to fight against.
>>545218160>How do you know *that*?Know what?
>>545211318you cannot fathom the glory due the eternal omnipotent creator of all power and majesty, who holds all creation as a small thing in his hand, and must humble himself to even look at the cosmic expanses, and that He would create man from dust and bring a remnant out of that corrupted race into union with Himself, by the blood, death and resurrection of His Son Jesus the Chosen One, to the eons of shock, awe and wonder of all the created super-power hosts of spirits and angelic beings that stand amazed at what the LORD has done in redeeming for Himself, for His Son, a Bride, a suitable Bride: the unified body of Christians, to reign with Him for all eternity. There is no one like our God.>inB4 our - let all who are thirsty come and drink freely from the water of life in Christ
>>545217988From a biblical perspective, I would argue humans are allowed to make moral judgements about God because they have divine knowledge of good and evil via the apple. Our moral judgment is just as good as gods because we have the same intrinsic knowledge of good and evil, biblically.
>>545218109>christkikery is when you suggest evil must existnigger, Greeks also had problem of evil, but you are so kikedrone that you think christians poofed every concept into existence.You have nigger blood in your mutt composure, at least my ancestors raped Greeks and I am mut of an ancient civilisation, you are mutt of some jungle ape you nigger!
>>545217183>a mindless slave isn't someone who can love you trulyYou keep talking about love, but if you want to get closer to your God you have to suffer. Suffering isn't love. What's the deal with that? Can i live and not suffer? Is that allowed here?
>>545217564The baby learns the value of compassion, the brevity of life, and cultivates the desire to be able to help himself after experiencing helplessness. You're assuming the baby only lives once and presupposing that reincarnation isn't a possibility.
>>545218240No I think christkikes are dumb fucking retards just like all the other abrahamic jew goat fucking fairy tale believers.
>>545218060You just have the prettiest name in all of the lands. How could I not?
>>545218210>but where you are getting confused is that all effect has justifiable cause"justifiable" means what exactly? All of your choice have a cause and every choice produces consequences that bind. And those consequences will go on to produces more causes etc etc..
>>545211318Evil is the willful destruction of virtue.
>>545217731>Some people get kidnapped and skinned alive by drig cartels what is the moral lesson they learn there?You guys argue at the toddler level. You don't even know if all creatures even have sentience, a great bulk of living creatures might just be props.
>>545218290So the only way the baby can learn all of these things is dying from cancer. Something the baby also didn't choose. The omnipotent, omniscient God could not come up with any other way of teaching these things aside from having the baby die from cancer
>>545217997>objective moralityI’m against the practice of using religious moral arguments against crime. All you need to do is define why causing harm should be outlawed, it doesn’t take invoking “god” whatsoever; just because religion has been how some legal systems sell it doesn’t make it correct. Whether you claimed Odin would be upset over killing a defenseless baby or that Sobek wants you to suffer for making alligator skin boots is just as retarded as inversely believing you’ve won their favor by behaving “morally”.
>>545218216WHEN ASKED: "How do you KNOW anything to be absolutely true"YOU RESPONDED:>I don't, nor claim too.QUESTION BEING BEGGED: "How do you know *that*?"You will continue to make truth claims without being able to account for truth apart from relying on the truth of the Christian worldview.
>>545211318>THERE HAS TO BE EVIL...Because this is a fallen world. This is not heaven.Jesus, I thought you retards already knew that
>>545218290>>545218464Actually, since we can all still learn while dying and after death, why doesn't God just have everyone die then? Why does that one specific baby who died from cancer, have to be the one who died from cancer, we can all still learn after death anyways right
>>545218349Pagans also had problem of evil.Christkikes did not ivent the concept of evil.But I am spilling pearls for a pig here, you have no connection to Etruscans, Romans, Greeks, Francs nor any civilsiation building races of earth. You are a jungle ape mixed with northern forest ape, and your ancestors could not grasp idealism and abstraction. So you have no concept of evil and you think the François Lousanne who forcibly gave your starving monkey ancestor a bbible invented concept of evil.
>>545218388>"justfiable" means what exactly? That's the rub I'm trying to make friend. What is justifiable? An individualized and subjective perspective that changes on who or what is making the observation. Case in point, I shoot you in the kneecap. What is my justification? Individualized Absurdity because I felt like it. You may see it as absurd, (which is it is) but to me, I see it as a perfectly normal exercise of my Individual Absurdity, especially if I don't care about the consequence and did so because I felt like it. This is the gift I am handing to you friend, and the gift I offer to all humans. "You can just do things because you feel like it." and no one has to tell you that it is an invalid action simply because it doesn't make sense to them.
>>545217882More Hallmark movie bullshit. You're only envisioning shit like people overcoming being poor or short or not having a dad or having mean parents or some shit. How about cancer that puts you in so much pain that you can't even think? Or a virus making it's way to your brain that turns you into a vegetable? How about an industrial accident or war crime that takes your sight, hearing and mobility in a shithole with no infrastructure? This shit happens every day but you don't believe it does because nobody put it on a screen for you to look at. And on top of that there's just the ridiculous movie-brain assumption people in less extraordinary circumstances all get opportunities at some point in their lives to elevate their station in life. It's not true.What all that shit really is is a lie fed to you by your ruling class so you never revolt. It's a deradicalization psyop. Why fight for better systemic improvements when you believe that everyone's situation is 100% a product of their own choices?
>>545216887You see things that way because you are an atheist who assumes that the immediate here and now material world we live in right now is all that there is.Christians realize that there IS something far bigger and better and actually perfect beyond all of this, so the fact that the physical material world in the here and now is a corrupt broken place where bad things happen is not really an issue at all. The dead baby is the most fortunate one in the scenario because they don't have to keep slogging through this mess like the rest of us. You suffer because you cling to this material world because you think it is all you have. We realize that ideally we will cast off our attachment to the vices and passions and desires for this material world, all of the envy and arrogance and lust and fear so that we can become dead to this world. You fear death, but our Lamb has conquered Death.
>>545218516>"How do you know *that*?"Know what? How do I know that I don't know? Is that the moronic question you're attempting to ask?
The "atheist" can not account fro truth according to "atheism".
>>545211318Atheists have the problem of evil to explain. Why is there objective metaphysical evil? It's clearly there, plain as day for everyone to see. This doesn't make sense in any kind of rational universe.If, on the other hand, the devil is real, then this makes perfect sense. If the devil is real, then why is there anything good at all ever? Why are Labradors and Belgian Groenendales so loyal, steadfast, and willing to sacrifice to save their loved ones? Why is pizza so glorious? If the devil is all there is, then everything should be shit, yet it isn't.God is very real, and the kikes hate Him feverishly.
>>545218243>What's the deal with that? Can i live and not suffer? Is that allowed here?In order to approach God we'll have to die to our old self (picking up our cross) and put on the new man. Yes this involves suffering, but in a way we're mirroring the suffering the Lord suffered for our sake on the cross...Yes it is painful to reject evil but it's actually good for us, being an alcoholic drug addict feels good in the moment, but it kills you long-term, stopping that lifestyle in the short-term is full of suffering, but your father in heaven is delighted to see you stop rolling around in the mud and becoming a better person! (That's the sorta suffering, the one that makes you happier in the end, that good wants from us).But you are right suffering isn't love, and in the new heaven and earth there will be no suffering (but there will be love) but as things are right now suffering is the vehicle in which we are sanctified and an expression of our devotion to the one who saved our life by giving his own.THOUGH THE GREATEST LOVE LETTER OF GOD IS THE BLOOD FROM THE CROSS! We preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to the Greeks. Because only once you really understand this, it's no longer insanity but the greatest thing.. But I could go on.. Has anyone on this shithole of a planet ever died for my sake? Has anyone ever given a shit? No, only God cares in the end. He died for my sake, that's worth preaching and living for.. (and dying for!)
>>545218630>how many apples are there?>there's three, I see three>NOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CANT KNOW THAT THERES NO TRUTH WITHOUT YAHWEH
>>545218603>The dead baby is the most fortunate one in the scenario because they don't have to keep slogging through this mess like the rest of us. Then why doesn't God just kill everyone then? If we're all better of dead, why doesn't he just have everyone die?
>>545218575>What is justifiable? An individualized and subjective perspective that changesThats irrelevant to cause and effect being real and that our choices revolve around them.
>>545218464It was the best way for the baby to learn, and God only does what's best. If there were a better way, it would have been done that way.>>545218554Because not everyone learns by dying. That one specific baby had to learn that one specific lesson in that one specific way. He'll be back to learn other lessons in other ways. You've been that baby once before in a past life, and you learned the lesson you needed. Your current life is filled with lessons you need. Your future lives will be filled with lessons you need.
>>545218566Pagans did have an answer for evil (gods were assholes). Even then it's all still made up megacope. There is no magic humanoid dictating any aspect of reality. Anyone who believes in oooga boooga magic in 2026 is clinically retarded and should be euthenized for the greater good.
>>545218626The same way you do...revelation by Lord Jesus The Christ.
>>545218650>Atheists have the problem of evil to explainYou have a fundamental misunderstanding of what atheism is
>>545217466>God made a world without bad songs but humans listened to the serpent more than God and opened the bad songs floodgatesBut you see, God has full control, he could have deleted all the bad songs, so that nobody would ever have to feel bad. But he didn't, which resulted in us feeling bad. Why did God want us to feel bad? Do unto others...
Anti-God porn thread. Notice how these threads never go past any bounderies, because atheists don't actually want solutions they want a strawman version of God that they defeat over and over again.
>>545218566Pagans resolved the problem of evil largely by claiming there were two Supreme deities or Set vs Horus. Its how they explained the seasons. The evil prevailed in the winter during the night and at a time when man was afraid but by first snowmelt the promised return of spring and good harvests warmth and life.
>>545218109> All you good Christian boys what was the last good deed you did for your neighbor?I held the lobby door open for them this morning. Satisfied?What's genuinely hilarious is that people like you don't recognize that there are two responses to being immersed in sin.Apathy and indignation, and it is far easier for apathy to suddenly transform itself into indignation than it is for indignation to permanently transform itself back into apathy again.
>>545218824>The same way you do.The same way I do what?
>>545211318how else would good people distinguish themselves from bad people, anon? Evolution is the cope that we're all selfish and greedy creatures, and would be true if one didn't accept that he is of divine origin by his divine creator and therefore possesses qualities from his creator.Keep malding heathens, you will always be unloved clay and we will always be better than you.
>>545211318Seethe To Death Of Trump's Final Fantisemitism Kikekind. Enter the wormhole.
>>545218869What boundaries are you referring to?
>>545218732Yes, that is one viewpoint, but you will still walk with a limp for the rest of your life simply because the concept of me shooting you in the kneecap felt like an appropriate exercise. You state the means is irrelevant, only the actions; I state the means matters, because I can use said means to make consequences happen that effect you personally. That's Will Manipulation friend. You too, have that power. You cannot stop me from shooting you in the knee cap, but you can influence what I say in that, my facial response in that, and whether or not I shoot the other one or not. Life is a Tell Tale game, "You can influence, but not change things." The ability to influence is Free Will, which is important, especially when the local consequence directly effects you.
>>545218731>Then why doesn't God just kill everyone then?
>>545218650Evil is an imposition on you by a rival tribe to destroy you. To them, it's just combat. Nothing confusing about it
>>545218905>posts an atheist
>>545217940>The bibke is filled with stories of God interfering in "free will"But does God interfere with YOUR free will? >Can you sin in heaven?Why would you?
>>545211318Evil is not a creation, it is a consequence of free will and the rejection of what is in accordance with God’s good and holy nature.
>>545218799>He'll be back to learn other lessons in other waysAccording to you, we can all still learn after dying though, so why does the current life matter? If a baby can learn after dying then any human can learn after dying, any "lesson" can be taught regardless of being alive or dead. If that wasn't possible, then you admit babies can't learn anything after deathAlso, why would God deliberately create a world where only certain babies can learn from dying from cancer while other people cannot
>>545211318If you're stronger, wealthier, or more powerful than me then guess what you're EVIL
>>545218844read the whole post - he did end up deleting all that. we've yet to get to that point in time yet though>why did God want us to feel badhe wanted to spare us from that which is why the only one (1) commandment he left to Adam and Eve was do not eat of that one tree, but alas2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance"
>>545218588>How about cancer that puts you in so much pain that you can't even think? Or a virus making it's way to your brain that turns you into a vegetable? How about an industrial accident or war crime that takes your sight, hearing and mobility in a shithole with no infrastructure? This shit happens every day but you don't believe it does because nobody put it on a screen for you to look at.When the fall happend the consequence was awful misery and death for all of creation. Disease, illness and all that awful hopeless chaos is a byproduct of evil being introduced into reality.Speaking truly, I don't know why all this meaningless death happen, why kids are killed, why scary disease claim the best of us, I don't know. I do know that eventually we will have an answer, but no I would never claim that I can explain every awful thing right now, but later we will have answers.And no most evil really doesn't help us, death is death, we get scarred, we get brutalized and sometimes everyone is just left worse off. Evil and death is just a black hole that shits up everything..But the cross can sanctify the evil awfulness and promise us redemption, that's our only way out. Only the cross can turn evil into good, otherwise evil is just evil. It's nonsense. Awful.As for Christianity as a psy-op to control the masses? That's hardly true, if you truly knew what Christianity was then you would understand what a declaration of war against the world it is, there is a reason why the early Christians were crucified and burnt en masse, it really says nothing good about this world, it declares this world must die, and it will die, sooner than any of us realize. To be Christian is to crucify the world itself. To overturn every traditional manner of control.
>>545218973I imagine the Truman show having a second level where the strings are really pulled. The director thinks hes God but in reality hes just another puppet on a string and its all just a way to test the sick perverse nature of the people needlessly keeping a unsuspecting man ignorant.
>>545218831Atheists believe there are no gods. Plain and simple.>No, it's just a LACK OF BELIEFIt is if they have no concept of "god" to begin, that is de facto atheism. Once the concept is established, belief is either on one side or the other. I believe there are no unicorns. I believe there are 1957 Chevy Nomads. I believe there are no faggots in Heaven. You see how this works. It's not a lack of belief if the concept is known. If I had never heard of the concept of unicorns or imagined them myself from fanciful thoughts, then I would lack a belief in unicorns.You have a fundamental misunderstanding of why you can't stop sucking cocks.
>>545218504>.All you need to do is define why causing harm should be outlawedGood luck with that
>>545218970>Yes, that is one viewpointNo, that's the argument. You can give whatever "justifiable" cause to your actions, which will produce consequences. >I state the means mattersYeah, by means you also mean cause. Your cause matters so much you are willing to act and make choices based on it..
>>545217882This view is nonsensical because according to Christian dogma, the Christian god knows all things, created all things, and set all things into motion. There is no trial and no chance within this view because if you accept all Christian dogmas in regards to the nature of their god as true then the Christian god made you exactly the way you are, knowing whether you would pass or fail long before he made you and changed nothing. >he's willing to put up with all this nonsense and misery just to sort the wheat from the chaff More badly thought out anthropomorphizing. If what you described was truly onerous to such a being, then it is his own fault for creating the things annoying him and failing to amend his creation before they began to vex him. Nor does such a being have any need of winnowing because he can have any result he chooses because he is the author of all results. All seemingly contrary things to the desires to the Christian god within the Christian theological framework are in fact exactly what he wanted because he is both their author and mover.
>>545217709If challenges and stakes meant the players feel pain then no, it's not worth it. Anything that causes them pain and suffering is by default wrong.
>>545218729Classic Strawman Argument. I never stated such a thing. I never said "atheists" can't know things.....I clearly stated that so called "atheists" actually *do* know God exists, you just hate Him. Every comment you make reveals that you must presuppose the Christian worldview is true, because you can't account for truth apart from relying on Lord Jesus The Christ.You didn't even refer to Jesus The Christ...you took a shot at a satanic idol instead. That is a perfect example of a Strawman Argument.
>>545219163Thank you?
>>545219077Because the current life's lessons can only be learned in the current life. That's a very, very stupid question. That's like asking "If I leave school when I graduate after 4 years of schooling then why does the first year matter?". Earthly life is a school. It's for learning. We're here to learn.>why would God deliberately create a world where only certain babies can learn from dying from cancer while other people cannotThat's up to the baby, not to God. Everyone learns at their own pace, not God's pace. If we learned at God's pace then we would already be wise.
>>545218953Like the fact that you don't even know if all living creatures even have sentience, so many could be just props.
>>545218991It's meme time again.
>>545219000>But does God interfere with YOUR free will?How people define God and act based on it, does interfere with the will of others.>>545219000>>Can you sin in heaven?>Why would you?That's not the question. The question is can you?
>>545219170>No that's the arguementAgain, that's one viewpoint that you're entitled to as a subjective individual, but it is not a valid definitive answer outside of your own perspective; thus, a viewpoint. >By means you mean cause. I suppose so, but I substitute cause with the generative engine of "I felt like it"/Individualized Absurdity/Free Will, which you choose not to register as a valid spark ignition, of which, I am saying "Tell that to your health premiums when you're hobbling around on crutches."
>>545219246So then why would God deny the baby the opportunity to learn those lessons if only certain lessons can be learned while alive? On top of that, it is a denial regardless of the baby’s free will because babies don’t choose to die from cancer
>>545218869>Everyone that questions god or the problem and existence of evil is an athiestYou obviously have never read Jeremiah where he complains that God had deceived him and he would rather be dead or read Psalm 88. Every fucking person struggles with these questions retard.
>>545219145This will help you(Probably not)
>>545218039>Well clearly it wasn't perfect thenNo, the humans weren't perfect, which is why God kicked them out.>does that mean Heaven can be fucked up too?You could try, but it's not a good idea. Ask Satan.>7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.>10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
>>545219191God made us perfect but our ancestors ruined it, but God has given a way out and paid with his blood, this is a God I can accept and love. I don't see any God elsewhere offering me this, tell me a more beautiful story and better news than this? God is God, I am who I am, take the offer (it's a good deal) or into the lake of fire, that's how God will deal with evil eventually. I find that more than fair, it's a good offer. Get with the program really. (But it's of course more complicated than that)I can't see how God can be just and merciful without it playing out like this (while also allowing free will) ((or just the capacity of creation to choose him)) but that's enough Greek logicbabble
>>545219329>that's one viewpoint Does cause and effect exist and does in influence our will?
>>545219191knowing that an actor will make a certain decision does not take away from the actor's ability to make it, nor does it influence it. as for the rest of your post, it's all made straight in the New Testament. all you have to do to be spared from the purge is to believe unto Jesus Cheist. get savedJohn 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
>>545219000>But does God interfere with YOUR free will?Just how am i supposed to make any other choice than the one God has already foreseen? I'm supposedly free, yet i can't do that. Can someone explain this to me please?
>>545219105The pharisees drew this.
>>545219372So if Heaven can be fucked up that means there is free will in Heaven. Then why can’t God just make our current reality either Heaven, or closer to Heaven? We would still retain free will
The reason atheists single out the bible is because it's a strawman since it's comically stupid and contradictory. Then somehow debunking a strawman they don't think is true makes it so God not real.
The "atheist" simply can not account for truth according to "atheism".
>>545217951>God did try to make a perfect paradise where nothing bad happensWhat happened? Did he fail to foresee that it would fail? Or did he knowingly do it in such a way that it would fail? Why couldn't he actually make a perfect paradise where nothing bad happens?
>>545219261I don’t need to know that, but it can be studied. Then what?
>>545219570Correct. Again atheism is not a comprehensive worldview, but rather a single position on one specific question
>>545219414>Does cause and effect exist? Yes, that's a Netwonian law>Does it influence our will? Only if you allow it to, that's Relative. Netwonian laws themselves are Relative accordingly to the Observer and subject to different applications depending on your locality. Case in point. "I shoot a dog, skin it, and eat it in soup." I do this in the United States, and I am arrested. I do this in South korea, and I am simply a merchant of food. It's all subjective and relative, and you're not okay with knowing that things outside of your subjectivity exists and can act independent and antagonistically towards your perspective, hence the heel dig in on your point. Which is normal, that is a normal human defense friend.
>>545219689So, gay?
>>545219488>Just how am i supposed to make any other choice than the one God has already foreseen?How does God knowing what will happen influence your decision making? I don't get this trail of thought at all, other than an attempt at conceding responsibility for one's actions or shifting the blame, both of which are vain
>>545218731>Then why doesn't God just kill everyone then? He does, eventually. No one lives forever, at least not in this world.>If we're all better of dead, why doesn't he just have everyone die?He is giving you an opportunity to get your shit together and accept Him and his love and forgiveness before it's too late. You should be thankful. If you refuse and continue to be an insufferable corrupt atheist sinner, then things won't get better for you when you die.
>>545217541>I was Le AbusedLiteral fucking spoiled child speaking. Did somebody misgender you or did somebody give you a wedgie in school? Did somebody die? Aww, it must be easy living being retarded and all. Come back when you get turbo cancer or experience some real struggle.
>>545219488If I put beef on the floor & broccoli....knowing that my dog will choose to go straight for the beef does NOT mean the dog didn't have the free will to make the choice.God knows what everyone will choose long before anyone is even born. That does not remove Free Will.
>>545219725>>Does it influence our will?>Only if you allow it toGive an example where it doesn't
>>545219742Why? You interested?
>>545219816[calls you a nigger and shoots you in the kneecaps]
>>545219124The psyop isn't so much Christianity but rather the over emphasis on "free will" being the driving factor in one's station in life. Most of why your life is the way it is is due to systems that are (for now) totally outside your control. Your free will is part of the equation but it's far less substantial. You only hear about the people who's effort leads to great outcomes. For every 1 person who tries their best and succeeds, 100 try just as hard and fail but their stories aren't worth telling so you assume they just never tried. This is the psyop. When you believe that everyone has the life they have because of their own choices, you stop thinking about systems (and by extension controlling systems).That's percisely what your rulers want.And to make matters worse, what if you believe evil is punished after death (hell) and that good is rewarded (heaven)? Well then you REALLY won't think about systems. You need to ask yourself what would you want people to believe if you were an evil overlord
>>545219810>God knows what everyone will choose long before anyone is even born. That does not remove Free Will.Yes it does. Because you have an ultimatum. Bend the knee or perish.
>>545218575>"You can just do things because you feel like it."But why would you want to hurt others, ever? Why does God want us to get hurt?
>>545219904Which has a cause and will produce effects.Care to try again?
>>545219305>>545219305>does interfere with the will of others.No it doesn't. You can do pretty much whatever you want within the bounds of reason, regardless of how anyone else defines God.>That's not the question. The question is can you?Satan did.
>>545219689>Again atheism is not a comprehensive worldview, but rather a single position on one specific questionHow does an "atheist" account for truth apart from relying on God?
>>545219859Faggots aren't Christians, and Christians aren't faggots. It's like saying this vegetarian eats bacon every day, get over it. No, these are mutually exclusive things with clearly defined parameters.Hopefully no retard brings up the "no true Scotsman fallacy" fallacy. I'd hate to think people still don't understand such a basic concept as immutable versus mutable traits.
>>545219997>>does interfere with the will of others.>No it doesn'tTell that to the kids strapped with bombvests for jihad. Or the knowing people it kills. >>545219997>>That's not the question. The question is can you?>Satan did.And what happened?
>>545220077I've already been through this with you. You couldn't refute it so you ended in a strawman.
>>545219953...who said I was justifying God? I'm just a bad person who wants to hurt other people because it is funny to me and because I can. >>545219966The cause was me "I felt like it" the effect is that you feel sad and bad. The individualized means matter, because it might've been something different; of which you are taking the stance "I was always fated to be called a nigger and be shot in the kneecaps." And perhaps that is true in your subjective, because yes, you are someone that I felt a strong want to cripple and call a slur.
>>545219927so in your head it's not true free will until you can do as thou wilt without any consequences whatsoever?
>>545220096>Faggots aren't Christians, and Christians aren't faggotsThey are sinners just like you.
>>545218603>Christians realize that there IS something far bigger and better and actually perfect beyond all of this, so the fact that the physical material world in the here and now is a corrupt broken place where bad things happen is not really an issue at all.I think you're all just masochists who can't understand that people get hurt, some permanently, by the suffering that you put on the pedestal. No amount of explaining will make you understand that not everybody 'grows' from suffering, some people just slowly get broken into pieces. You will just keep plowing on, making everybody feels worse as a result. You can't undo the damage once it's been done.
>>545220136>The cause was me "I felt like it" the effect is that you feel sad and bad.Thanks for admitting you were wrong.Concession accepted
>>545219330He didn't. God gave him the opportunity to learn those specific lessons, which were parts of the whole. The baby will be back, and learn other lessons. It takes countless lives, long and short, to bring a person to full enlightenment.
>>545219923>"free will" being the driving factor in one's station in life.Ah then we spoke past each other, free will doesn't explain your current success in life or what have you. It just explains why God allowed evil to exist, because he has given his creation a choice to love or reject him.As for the will in general, Christianity very much puts a lot of control outside of our hands, we're just pawns in a greater play between good and evil, a Christian must put a lot of his faith and his fate in the hands of God. We're bound either to God or to the Devil, that's the nature of our agency, caught between God and a hard place.So yes we have (some) agency but life is fickle and we're not the author of own luck, we're wandering through a chaotic fallen world praying God may not lead us into temptation but deliver us from the evil one. The most agency we ever had was in the garden but Adam messed that up, and he had a thousand times more clarity and wisdom than any of us. We would have fallen all the same. But here is God opening up the door for us to get back into his good grace. (That's the sorta image I'm trying to potray).I don't believe in Hollywood feelgood nonsense, this world is on a collision course for disaster, most people are not gonna make it, and God is trying to get everyone aboard the ark before our own manmade flood drowns us.
>>545220141Well, if consequences bind our choices and if something is bound then it isn't truly free.
>>545220230If you are happy with that conclusion then so be it [glasses your kneecaps]
>>545220306My joy is irrelevant to what happened. Which was you demonstrating you were wrong.
>>545220077You believe in the wrong god. What now?Your morality was made up by people and projected onto an egregore. Now you think that mental construct is your daddy and you spread your cheeks for him while biting on a pillow every day then act smug about it. It's sad to watch you retarded meatbags believe in religion and it's hierarchies.
>>545219392>God made us perfect but our ancestors ruined itThis doctrine is nonsensical because if your ancestors were perfect then they wouldn't have made a mistake. And don't give me "BUT THE SNEK" because if they were perfect they wouldn't have fallen for it.>Get with the program really. That's the whole point of the Christian doctrine, to convince people that they are spiritually impotent and only Jesus can save them, with a little help from the Church of course. The point of Christianity is not salvation is is submission.>I can't see how God can be just and merciful without it playing out like this (while also allowing free will) ((or just the capacity of creation to choose him)) but that's enough Greek logicbabble It's because your still trying to rationalize this "reality as Yahwistic shit-test" contrivance of second-rate manglers of Greek philosophy.>>545219474In the Christian doctrine the actor only has the talent that your god allowed him to have. Grading him on the talent he did or did not give him with the stakes being his eternal wellbeing is sadism not benevolence. >all you have to do to be spared from the purge is to believe unto Jesus Cheist. get saved I am as unimpressed by your threats as I am by bible verses.
>>545220368>Quoth the cripple who argued semantics with someone with a shotgun.
>>545220303the free will is definitely there. the freedom from consequences is not. why do you argue for freedom from consequences?
>>545220430Turns out your a bad shot and didn't account for my wife blasting your gave wide open..Cause and effect my friend.
>>545219488This one doesn't even rely on religious faith, we can observe it scientifically. Quantum mechanics is just the mechanism by which created a universe where free will is possible.Our physical universe has been thoroughly prove to be very much not deterministic. A team of scientists won the Nobel prize a few years ago for proving that there were no hidden variables that we didn't know about, the universe just isn't deterministic. There is not one single timeline. God created a universe where all possible timelines exist simultaneously in a state of quantum superposition for every single particle until something causes the superposition to collapse into one single present experience. And all of these timelines exist in a very real way, it's not some woo woo philosophical bullshit, they cause interference with each other. Your life is not just one timeline you follow. All possible timelines exist until you use your free will choose which one to follow. It's like one of those "choose your own adventure" books from when we were kids. The author created a book that contains every possible plot line and ending, but the reader chooses which one to follow.
Jesus The Christ reveals that there are no "atheists"...only those that profess "atheism". God says everyone knows He exists sufficient for their condemnation, but scoffers suppress that knowledge in unrighteousness for love of their sin.The "atheist" can not account for truth according to "atheism". The "atheist" must presuppose the Christian God of the bible exists to even think of denying His existence.
>>545220170>ignores reprobation doctrine, along with the rest of postThis is how we know you're a kike.
>>545220506*teleports behind your wife and impregnates her*
>>545220467>the free will is definitely thereWhere does it come from? How do you make choices?>why do you argue for freedom from consequences?I don't. The opposite. Having consequences is a form of freedom. If you can learn from your consequences then that would set you up to male better choices.
>>545220409>This doctrine is nonsensical because if your ancestors were perfect then they wouldn't have made a mistake. And don't give me "BUT THE SNEK" because if they were perfect they wouldn't have fallen for it.They were perfect within their limited agency, of course relative to an infinite being like God they fell short by not seeing through the lies of the snek, but the snek was stronger than man, but God overcomes all.>That's the whole point of the Christian doctrine, to convince people that they are spiritually impotent and only Jesus can save them, with a little help from the Church of course. The point of Christianity is not salvation is is submission.Nah there is only you, Jesus, The Father and the Holy Spirit, no "Church" needed, maybe someone who can get you baptized and that's IT. I'm not a papist, I don't put faith in man or rituals.> It's because your still trying to rationalize this "reality as Yahwistic shit-test" contrivance of second-rate manglers of Greek philosophy.I'm not a philosopher I follow Jesus, but philosophy can explain some reveled truths, but that's about my the end of my interest in the GreeksThough yes Christianity does kill your own ego, and we do have to crucify ourselves in that sense. The devil tries to tell you "You can become like God! Surely you will not die!" Lies from Satan himself, I don't buy it. Help me Christ Jesus, this is all FUBAR truly
>>545218671>In order to approach God we'll have to die to our old self (picking up our cross) and put on the new man. Yes this involves suffering, but in a way we're mirroring the suffering the Lord suffered for our sake on the cross...So if God could 'take it' and suffer, so then must we also 'take it' and suffer? All i see is hate. If you love someone, do you make them suffer, or do you protect them from suffering? How about if you hate them? Do you make them suffer or protect them from suffering?
>>545219627God knew what would happen, but he let humans experience this so we would understand why things are the way they are. Again, this is the very first story in the Bible. This question was answered by God at the very beginning of humanity, so I do not understand why you people keep asking it.You have not found some gotcha, you are just a moron who is too dumb to understand God or Christianity or reality on even the most basic level.
>>545220659Kek.
>>545220649>how dare you ignore my subjective dogma Lmao
I don't think any Christians are actually moral. In their mind the only thing stopping them from murdering and raping people is that they're scared they're going to go to a fiery hell for eternity if they do. They don't actually see anything wrong with those actions, they just fear punishment.
>>545220276There are those who do reliably transmute their free will into the exact outcomes they desire. They're not better than you. You could be them.But you'll have to kill them first.
>>545218671>Yes it is painful to reject evil but it's actually good for usAh so you're a masochist, and you simply can't understand that making others feel bad isn't, in any way, good. It's no use me trying to convince you about it, we're done here.
>>545220102>Tell that to the kids strapped with bombvests for jihad. Or the knowing people it kills.I think you are just a retard who doesn't even understand what "free will" even means.>And what happened?Satan and his followers lost and were cast out of heaven. Eventually they end up in a Lake of Fire.
>>545220830QUESTION: Is it objectively morally wrong to molest and kill a small child for the sheer fun of it? Yes or No
>>545220524How about you shift to a reality where you're not a retarded human and where you actually understand the double slit experiment and collapsing quantum probability fields? This is the kind of misunderstanding that leads to believing the new age mind virus which leads to consenting being soul raped by a space geco. Stop it, get some help.
>>545219077>any "lesson" can be taught regardless of being alive or deadWhy did God deny us this knowledge anyway? Why not make us wise enough from the start, so that we could avoid making mistakes and make the right choice every time, so that we wouldn't have to suffer as a result of our wrong choices? Were we created worse than we could have been on purpose? Does God want us to succeed or to fail?
>>545219859You know the answer to that lmao. Why are you the way you are?
>>545221099>Why did God deny us this knowledge anyway?Any question concerning why God did/allowed anything to happen is always the same: It's for His glory.
>>545221023I accept your concession
>>545219123>we've yet to get to that point in time yet thoughLike i said, the damage has already been done, you can't undo it. Nothing can undo it. It's too late already. The fact that i had to listen to bad songs means i failed to protect myself from feeling bad, which means i lost.
So called "atheists" can not account for truth apart from relying on the Christian God of the bible. They have to presuppose God exists just to deny He exists.
>>545221114>You know the answer to that lmaoYou're probably a homo
>>545211318evil is the deprivation of a good, it has no independent existenceno more than a scar has an independent ontology, it is the disfigurement of something else, in this case the Good
>>545220201Yeah, this world sucks. People suffer. No one will deny that. But the real issue is that you cling to this world and (wrongly) blame God for the suffering here instead of letting God save you from it.Every single doubt or question or criticism or argument against the Christian God has already been asked and already been thoroughly answered thousands of times before for thousands of years before now.There's nothing left to debate. The only real question is whether or not you are going to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.
>>545221159How a motherfucker is capable of unironically sucking off some entity like Yahweh the retarded donkey god and not see how that is gay as fuck will remain one of the funniest jokes this server has to offer.
>>545221451D:
>>545219123>he wanted to spare us from thatSo why didn't he prevent it? He could have. But he decided not to. So you saying he wanted to spare us from that is a bit weird.
>>545221451I accept your concession. You like to say that so now It is mine.
>>545221065I clearly understand it far better than you do. You are just a typical atheist weirdo degenerate midwit with illusory superiority who thinks he is more intelligent than he actually is.
>>545221621
>>545221413I didn't concede anything retard.
>>545219123Why leave a commandment that he knows will be broken? Just deny them access to the tree, or make them unable to disobey. I fail to see where the problem is. God wanted them to obey him, right? Or did he? I get this feeling God said he wanted them to do one thing but what he actually did was do everything he could so that they would do exactly the opposite. I believe it's called entrapment or something like that.
>>545221510No, I'm a Christian. I'm talking about Lord Jesus Christ.
