China, Germany, the UK etc all invest a lot in windpower. In Germany alone windpower in the next 5years will be around 10-20 nuclear reactors equivalent.Why not build both, nuclear and wind? Oil and gas is too expensive to create electricity. Only clean coal is a good option, but is also expensive.Wind, hydro and solar are the cheapest electricity generation options, but they do strain the energy grid, so you need nuclear next to them and some battery storage buffer.
>>545357233>In Germany alone windpower in the next 5years will be around 10-20 nuclear reactors equivalent.Instead of building 10 nuclear reactors you built +1700 windmills that have to be maintained and replaced. That also don't provide consistent energy and depends entirely on the weather. All becasue your entire country has some weird autistic hate boner towards nuclear steam gas. German engineering is a fucking meme
>>545357233They think it kills seagulls more than their landfills
>>545357518Nuclear reactors take 10-15yrs to build and we don’t have any uranium.
>>545357563You shut down your existing nuclear reactors.
>>545357233Off shore wind and hydro can't power most off the US due to either location or hurricanes. Nuclear and solar have similar a problem, we can't produce enough materials from them long term.Getting enough material for mass nuclear adoption isn't feasible, let countries that need it have it. Silver is a huge fucking problem, at current production rates we'll run out of easily mineable silver in around a generation. No silver means worse panels, which makes solar is less economical.
>germans think they will build more wind energy in 5 years than they did over the past 40 yearsat last years rate they will reach half of their goal in 5 years
>>545357233>Wind, hydro and solar are the cheapest electricity generation optionsHAHAHAHgreen faggots are so fucking retardednobody will be better off under your globohomo communismbtw did you know subsidy money just falls from the sky?
>>545359171But wind, solar and hydro ARE the cheapest electricity options.
>>545358322>Off shore wind and hydro can't power most off the US due to either location or hurricanes. Nuclear and solar have similar a problem, we can't produce enough materials from them long term.Acrually they can power most of the US coastal regions where 2/3rds of the US population lives. In terms of efficiency, high voltage lines up to 1000 miles work, so really you cover a large part of the US, but in the mid-West will need onshore wind and solar and nuclear and hydro. Given the Rocky Mountains are a perfect way to generate electricity through wind and pump storage, I am not sure why the mid-West cannot go solar, biomass, nuclear and wind too.
>>545357233Because rural retards were told that renewable energy was fake and gay, so we dedicated another 30 years of being tied to sandpeople problems thousands of miles away, paying out the ass for petroleum products, and fucking up our environment even more.Do you know how dumb the avg red stater is to literally overturn infrastructure development in their own states and ruin their own backyards just to win a culture war nobody else was fighting?
>>545359447impressive, very nicenow let's see the same without government subsidies
>>545357233Germanies retarded energy policies are destroying our economies. We do that in Germany, but other nations are not that stupid.
>>545357563>and we don’t have any uranium.Dumbass.
>>545357563Grünen wähler.
>>545359592this, which is to say the oil and gas lobby is very strong in the USA
>>545359517Nuclear is the only real source of clean, renewable energy. Waste is practically zero, no matter how much they scream. It's a non issue. Cycle is almost completely closed.Everything else has a negative EROI if you factor in the energy cost of material for both the structures and the required batteriesYou can play with the numbers to make it look like it's not of course. I mean it's jews we're talking here, deception is all they do really. It doesn't change the reality of it. You cannot run a power grid on solar and wind power. Full stop. You can use them for peaks, at best, but they're so unreliable and require so much storage to be effectively used that it would probably be best to just go full nuclear and forget about these toys. They're really useful just for off-grid scenarios, and even then if you install solar panels+batteries what you're really doing from an EROI standpoint is that you're buying a battery with 20 years duration charged with coal from China.Nuclear is actively fought by the (((ones))) pushing for the green revolution, for reasons. It's like they want you to run out of energy. It's like their whole reason for doing all this shit is to leave you without a reliable energy source. Makes you think, huh? They're so worried about emissions and they actively fight the only real solution to the problem. It can't be overlooked, really. Whenever you ask them "but why not nuclear" they start with shit like "it takes so long" or "it costs too much" dude you've been doing this for decades now, we would have nuclear plants everywhere already, and if you count the money that you wasted on this useless shit you'd have nuclearized the power grid twice.
>>545357563and here it is>>545359858
>>545359622idk about other countries but finland hasn't needed subsidies to build renewable power in over a decade. Old wind power contracts from 2010s get their last subsidies in 2030, while newer power plants were built without subsidies. And it's not like finland is exceptionally windy or anything, italy probably has easier time to build them than us. Solar is so cheap than any grandma can just build their own mini plant in their backyard.
>>545359973> finland hasn't needed subsidies to build renewable power in over a decade. > Old wind power contracts from 2010s get their last subsidies in 2030, while newer power plants were built without subsidieshow it works here (and I guess everywhere else) is that both the supply chain and the individual contracts are heavily subsidized by the state. The contract subsidies are slowly being phased out, the supply chains subsidies are not. The consumer sees (and benefits) only from the first ones, so from the consumer's perspective they've "stopped giving them money".All they've done is that they've stopped giving YOU money. While yesterday setting up solar panels was mostly free (you got your money back in tax rebates over a decade or so), today those subsidies are not there anymore for YOU. They're still heavily subsidizing everything solar related, but at the supply chain level.They really can't help themselves. Goyim getting something for free out of us destroying their energy infrastructure? Can't have that.
>>545357563The reactors were already built and you could buy uranium dumb fuck
>>545357233
>>545360074Sucks for you I guess, finland meanwhile has pretty low electricity prices so they're clearly doing something right. The actual jewy part here is the distribution fees, but those have little to do with national energy production.
>>545360263>Sucks for you I guess, finland meanwhile has pretty low electricity prices so they're clearly doing something right.Sure thing retard> pay 6 gorillion eur for fake infrastructure> throw in 0.1 gorillion to subsidize civilian/non industrial energy costs> oh wow energy so cheap they're doing something right, I love the jewsIf you believe this shit and you're not a shill you deserve everything that's coming for you
>>545357540lol the funniest meme >>545357563We don’t do that in Germany
>>545357233>Why does the US hate offshore wind power?Do you want the full list of all extinct european seabirds or just a short summary?Cool fact: the flightless waddling icebirds that live in the southern sea used to be known as False Penguins, until the actual Penguin species, uhh... well... anyway europeans arent that great at environmentalism and maybe you should take notes from us instead.
>>545357233>Why does the US hate offshore wind power?Everyone with a brain does.Offshore wind is one of the most polluting power generation sources in the world.On land, you can at least see the oil spills.At sea, where the climate is harsher, you get tons more of oil spills and microplastics (and it's the banned BPA type of microplastics).But I guess it's fine because we don't see it.Who cares about the fish stocks eating hydro oil and BPA before ending up as food.There are a few serious options.> Hydro (requires geography for it and the acceptance of permanent destruction of waterways/local environment, but has very little operating emissions and pollution)> Nuclear (this is the obvious solution as it is not regionally locked, has near 0 emissions and produces very little waste. When the west catches up to Russia and China we might even get FBRs with over 100% efficiency instead of the 35% that the latest western reactors achieve).If you want to go green the two options are solar and peat/bio fuel.The latter has some particular matter emissions, but as far as CO2 emissions are concerned they are a 1:1 net neutral energy source. And the option to burning peak/bio fuel is coal or oil which also has particular matter pollution while being net positive in terms of CO2 (in case if we care about CO2).But everything is a compromise.Wind by far is the most destructive after burning brown coal.>>545359973>idk about other countries but finland hasn't needed subsidies to build renewable power in over a decade.They say that, but they give them more generous depreciation (tax deduction), lower property tax and up to recently a special type of credits (loans).It's subsidies, but with extra steps.The latest wind park in Hattula for instance will pay 8.8 million in property tax over 30 years, but the government pays over 50 million in infrastructure, provides price guarantees and ofc aggressive depreciation deductions of 100+ million.But no subsidies..
If I can keep my gas and electric bill under £200 a month now until April, I'll be doing well. Normal cooking, laundry, showering, have the central heating on couple of times a day for 2-3 hours to 17-18c. People that don't watch their energy use must have unbelievable bills, 400-500 per month over winter at the moment. I remember before covid the summer bill was 50-60 per month, winter under 80-90. Politicians deserve to die
>>545360108>bro just become dependent on some more third world shitholes even more
>>545360436wow a swede with a brain, nice to meet you> peat/bio fuelCO2 emissions are neutral, same as burning wood. Problem is the whole supply chain for that. When that's factored in, burning wood is much better. If done sustainably (plant as much as you cut down) it is a nearly perfect energy source. Completely overlooked or even demonized, same as nuclear, for reasons.Solar is just a joke. Especially at latitudes like yours. The amount of solar installed in Norway and Sweden you can see from the train makes you laugh out loud. You could as well start a rainwater harvesting project in Chad while you're at it. We have really lost our collective minds.> The latest wind park in Hattula for instance will pay 8.8 million in property tax over 30 years, but the government pays over 50 million in infrastructure, provides price guarantees and ofc aggressive depreciation deductions of 100+ million. But no subsidies..This is how it works all over Europe. "No subsidies" is just the claim, dig 1 cm deep and you see it all. Then of course it's all "zero subsidies" when they make their nice graphs. And people buy it.
>>545360664> I have no idea how a modern nuclear reactor works but I want to say shit anyway because I'm a retard
>>545357518>All becasue your entire country has some weird autistic hate boner towards nuclear steam gas.slavs not being able to boil water, and nips being too old fashioned to replace outdated shit convinced them that nuclear is scary
>>545360696He literally said to buy uranium you disingenuous retard
>>545360307Sounds good to me.>>545360436Your problem is the state having to build power lines? It's not like the power plants are the only ones using them, they're also for the industry and other local infrastructure to use. A good grid is the base upon which you build a modern society.
>>545360740> I have NO FUCKING CLUE how a modern nuclear reactor works and since I'm german I don't even consider the idea I might not know things and be wrong, so I just double down instead of reevaluating my position
>>545360754> Destroy future society and infrastructure for a very limited personal benefit today?> Sounds good to me.You must be a boomer or non white
>>545360876Oh so now renewable energy is destroying the future? That's a new one lol. Wrap that tinfoil hat a bit tighter grandpa.
>>545360949Yes, and I explained in detail howIf you are pretending not to understand it, you're a shillIf you are really not understanding it, you're retardedEither way, kill your fucking self and do the world a favor
>>545357233being for offshore wind is treason because it clearly doesn't work and will sabotage the nations energy grid.
>>545360673>nice to meet youPiacere.>Solar is just a joke. Especially at latitudes like yours. The amount of solar installed in Norway and Sweden you can see from the train makes you laugh out loud. You could as well start a rainwater harvesting project in Chad while you're at it. We have really lost our collective minds.That is only partially true.When everything is factored in, solar can often make sense (not necessarily be cheaper than the grid, but make sense).For instance when you consider grid fees and capacity fees or for dachas that are just off grid.The price of the cells also matter.Or if you can store energy in power banks/EVs.As for bio fuels, i was thinking of all forms of peat, wood chips etc rather than refined oils. But you are absolutely correct.>>545360754>Your problem is the state having to build power lines? It's not like the power plants are the only ones using them, they're also for the industry and other local infrastructure to use. A good grid is the base upon which you build a modern society.No.Normally, the company pays that connection, but here the state pays 5.7 times the (already subsidized) lifecycle property tax revenue.If I build a new powerplant for burning trash for instance, then I pay the connection fees and infrastructure needed to connect.If I build a windmill, the state pays everything.And for windmill connections, the energy supply swings so wildly that the infra structure is much more expensive than for say, nuclear, hydro or gas.And in this case, the state also guarantees a price floor (as you see, when the production is the highest, the price is at its lowest, so the government will be giving them millions of € over the 30 years the contract is running).Do you enjoy getting scammed or are you just stupid?
>>545357233We invested billions in renewables to make our consumer electricity the most expensive in the world
>>545361295> For instance when you consider grid fees and capacity fees or for dachas that are just off grid.Yep, it's good for an offgrid hytta. And that's it.> Or if you can store energy in power banks/EVs.That's the problem. The panel is fine from an EROI point of view (well, maybe not in Kiruna or the likes). It's the necessary batteries that absolutely kill the EROI.
>>545361758>That's the problem. The panel is fine from an EROI point of view (well, maybe not in Kiruna or the likes). It's the necessary batteries that absolutely kill the EROI.Yes, batteries are always the killer.But if you have them for one reason or other, then it makes sense.So solar panels usually produce energy here for ~50-75 öre/KWh (roughly 70€/MWh), grid energy costs half that, but after taxes it is about the same.And depending on the connection you may need to also pay a fairly substantial grid fee which brings the per KWh all the way up to about 250 öre/KWh or 250€ / MWh.If you now consider the option of getting cheap solar panels (second hand) and either a "free" power bank in the form of a car or stacked batteris for boating (say 100€ per KWh storage)This gives a net margin of ~1700€ annually if you live in a house pulling 10MWh annually.This easily covers the cost of a cheap battery bank with marine batteries.2 years net profit margin will cover 30-35KWh storage which matches the daily average consumption.Naturally, you would need to go ham on the solar capacity or have a backup energy source like a wood/gas generator but you get the point.All the extra fees makes energy quite expensive for consumers, so solar + batteries don't compete with nuclear or oil directly, but against grid energy + taxes + fees where the actual energy is only about 15% when all is tallied.So over a life cycle, can it compete with grid energy that has a price multiplicator of 6 or 7?Quite often, yes.Sweden killing of nuclear and fucking the grid with more renewables doesn't help that equation either.
>>545362468Yeah it's not really about economic cost I'm talking about here - based on the incentives structure, it might be well worth to install solar even when it doesn't make any sense from an EROI (energetic return of investment) point. This is what happens everywhere in Italy - the state directly or indirectly pays for solar installs, so people go for that even when it makes zero sense.> But if you have them for one reason or other, then it makes sense.Problem is why you have those in the first place. Offgrid installation where there is no other solution available? Then fine, still a loser EROI wise but no other technical solution available anyway, so why not install solar on top of it.EV? The "E" is fine when it's the engine you're talking about - near 99% efficiency, great torque, minimal upkeep, great durability.Problem is the battery. You're carrying around half a ton of magic rock all the time - it kills all the efficiency you're gaining by using an electric engine. Battery efficiency drops off a cliff after 8-10 years. Battery costs as much as a car or more, EROI wise. Can't be recycled in any meaningful way. Yeah if you have an EV then you can use it as a buffer. Why not. At that stage, you're deep into negative EROI anyway.Unless we find a way to get around the battery issue, EVs are just adding to the energy problem. They're heavily subsidized in multiple ways and people are retarded so they think electric = sustainable, so you don't really see that. For now.
>>545360108>The reactors were already built and you could buy uranium dumb fuckIt is extremely expensive. We bought uranium from the French. But yes, prolongation of the existing nuclear powerplants would have been the best option. Building new nuclear power plants does not work, the UK shows how expensive that is.
>>545360436Why would offshore wind lead to fish eating oil?
>>545365457because they use oil to lubricate the bearings which eventually leaks into the sea, scheissekopf.
>>545360436Everyone of the go green weird people never seem to bring those parts up, how does one get rid of the damaged parts of the windmills and or solar panels? It's not naturally made so nature cannot reclaim it, and also in 70 years only two incidents with nuclear power and both human error caused them one was retarded communists and the other was putting one on an area known for earthquakes literally known as ring of fire
How the fug do you guys know so much about energy? Are you engineers?Also regarding nonrenewables like fossil fuels and nuclear, what is the supply situation like? Isn't it true that europe barely has any native sources of nonrenewables?But yeah everything points to the planned destruction of western civilization. I am sure the indians chinese and arabs are all happy to help us disappear.
>>545366182>because they use oil to lubricate the bearings which eventually leaks into the sea, scheissekopf.Can't that oil from the lubrication just be contained? I mean it ain't the hardest engineering challenge to keep lubrication oil not dripping into the ocean.
