>mfw the means of production are easily seized and reproduced but disillusionment laziness trumps empowerment and those who do seize the means are crab bucketed by those who preach similarly. You can just seize the means of production or create it for yourself, it's free.
>>545406905>create it for yourselfNo, evil thieving sack of shit commies cannot create, only steal, take, and destroy.
>>545407157That's where the humor is. Literally anyone can just create whatever the fuck they want because knowledge is Universally Open Sourced by the very definition of knowledge. Anyone can make a gun, anyone can make a printing press. Anyone can made a hammer, a forge, a gear, an engine. Anyone can legitimately can empower themselves to seize the means of production and creation, from nothing. Yet the modern commie says "I take from you, to give to me." My niggas, make your own self worth and make for yourself. Anyone can do it.
Building a parallel version of any given company, industry, institution, etc. is a little more involved than "just google it and put in the work"
>>545407756Go ahead and explain the process then friend.
>>545407999Explain what, how to set up a large company from nothing?
>>545407307Yeah, but you miss my point. I do not beleive they are capable of it. Their only option is to steal, and take. They don't even register the idea of creating something. Tell a commie you made a business and he will immediately assume you were either given it (usually they say by your parents) or they will say you cheated and stole to get it. Because, to the commie, building something of value on your own without stealing or being given it is a concept outside of their mental capabilities, so actually creating something without stealing or charity, is also outside of their physical capabilities.They literally can't do it.
>>545408173No. Tell me what is stopping you from creating a wooden printing press in your garage, that utilizes wood pulp from trees you gathered yourself, and ink you made with coal ash, and releasing publications in how to create printing presses in your garage and how to make paper to others. >>545408259I don't think they can't do it, I genuinely think they just don't realize. "They can just 'do' it." That's the neat part. You can just do things.
>>545408361Would you also like me to go kill a wild animal with my bare hands so that I can get the sinew to build a stone axe before I start felling trees?
>>545408720>With your bare hands. Don't be an idiot, use spears, arrows, traps, or a fishing line/net. >So I can get the sinew to build a stone axe>He doesn't use grass twine rope to use for his axe heads. >He thinks that a little bit of creativity and work requires going Neanderthal. Hmm. Okay, question, sincerely; what is stopping you in doing things in your exaggerated and inefficient way? >It's inefficient and unoptimized!Yes, incredibly, how can you optimize it? By using that open source knowledge of Humanity that has horded over the years, and putting in the effort to make for yourself when the means around you are either gatekept, or inaccessible. You don't have to be a caveman to empower yourself, but you are free to do so; no one is stopping you in doing that, only you are.
>>545408720That sounds based, be sure to make videos and post them to YouTube.
>>545407307Retarded. Can you make a GPU? Can a fsrmer make a modenr tractor? Society is based on specialisation of labour, and an individual can only become a true expert in one field, whilst their life depends on the products of experts in thousands of fields all at once.If you think you are an expert in more than one thing then you are actually a midwit who doesn't know how uninformed you are. Most humans never become an expert at anything.
>>545409338>Can you make a GPU? Yes. All you need to do is understand how one is made and assembled and acquire the means of production and assembly. >Can a farmer make a modern tractor? Yes. They just need the knowledge, production and means. >The individual can only become a true expert in one field. According to whom? You can just do things without needing other people, as long as you have knowledge, and will. >Most humans never become an expert at anything. Again, according to whom? I think Humans are experts at being themselves and living another day; those who do not, die. Here's a really good example, I'm going to give you some rope, pulleys, a few rounded stones, mahogany wood, and some cam locks. I fully expect you to make a wrist mounted crossbow with the stuff I have given you, simply because, as a Human, you should have the ability to assemble things. If you make something else than a crossbow, I'll genuinely be surprised, but congratulate you regardless because you passed the basic skill that all Humans have. "We can just do shit, if we have the time, willpower, and means."
>>545408957I suppose what I'm driving at is that the technical truth of one's theoretical ability to achieve an arbitrarily high degree of success by the correct application of industriousness, studiousness, and ingenuity does not render invalid complaints about economic exploitation. "Don't like it? Just build your own society from scratch bro" is a theoretically clean but practically completely unreasonable justification for exploiting people, especially given that those same people are the ones who did most of the actual work in constructing the initial society in the first place
>>545406905Creating "means of production" is not free. It requires startup capital and taking risks.
>>545409687You're not acquiring the "means of production" to make a GPU unless you have billions of dollars to pour into it. It is quite simply impossible. Not even in your wildest fantasy is that ever going to happen without billions of dollars and employing hundreds or even thousands of people to help you.
>>545409791>It requires startup capital>He believes that capital is an obstacle, rather than simply rewriting what capital infers. The only real capital is personal time and effort; which is why I have the chuckle because even though personal time and effort has no true monetary value, (effectively free) people will treat it as obstacle rather than just doing something that was always available to them simply by putting in the time and effort. >>545409761No, I feel you; I just don't care. if I want to do something, I just do it because I want to, and I can because knowledge, access and means are free and open source. Knowledge isn't pay-gated, or gatekept. Unless society has become so warped where even thinking about a pulley is taxable, or whittling one out of wood suddenly gets Stasi at your door for not paying the copyright fee. You co-inflate that society should be better for you, while not understand you can simply, literally, make do for yourself, without anyone's permission, or authority, because again, Knowledge, and Means, and "just doing" is Open Source and free. >>545410044>Gives you wood, beads, and string.You should be able to build a GPU with this my guy, the Mayans were able to do so, so should you in the modern age.
>>545406905using what force?
>>545410213Your indomitible Human will, stubbornness and giant fucking brass balls.
>>545410244not gonna do much good against the entrenched capital holders surrounded by fanatical sycophants and hired thugs
>>545410213>force of your balls against op's chin
>>545410283>Imagine caring about the capital holders, sycophants and hired thugs. >Imagine letting fear of others stopping you from doing whatever the fuck you want to do. >Imagine not planting apple seeds because capital holders, sycophants and hired thugs could be here.
>>545410404I don't want to get shot and die
>>545410414>He thinks we live in a society where if you just do things because you want to do things you get shot and die. My guy, we're not Harrison Bergeron yet.
>>545410194It doesn't matter how much time and effort you put into it: building a GPU from scratch is simply beyond the capability of what one human can achieve in a single lifetime. You'll probably disagree by saying something along the lines of just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it's impossible. But that's like saying, how do you know jumping 100km into the air using only the power of your legs is impossible? Maybe it just requires more practice and effort. Lol no. To achieve something of that scale, you need many humans working together as a team.
>>545410664Define a GPU. Because with the tools I gave you earlier, you should've put a rudimentary one together already. You state it is impossible for one person, I say "It depends on how much you're willing your time and energy into it; how much knowledge and skill you have, how much creativity and what your ultimate end goal is." Next you'll say that someone cannot assemble a computer themselves, and they must purchase it prefab.
The ultimate point I am trying to make. "The water in the river is free, you just have to go to the river and pull the water from it, you don't have to buy it from the guy who bottles it and sells it to you. If you state that is impossible, you're simply empowering someone who is exploiting your personal laziness for their own gain, when all you have to do is move and do it yourself. The reason you'll capitulate to the industrialist is because, somehow, your time and effort means more than than your own agency that you willingly give to someone else who tells you you cannot exist out of it. Here's the gentle reminder. "You, and all of us, can greatly exist outside of said system, it is the industrialist that cannot exist outside of said systems." And that's the chuckle and joke; "Because 'muh time and effort>muh agency and inherit right to just do whatever the fuck I want'"
>>545410194>if I want to do something, I just do it >You co-inflate that society should be better for youAnother disconnect here might be that I'm not really thinking about myself when considering these issues. I might theoretically want conditions to be different to make things easier for myself but I have no trouble accepting the basic reality that I for the most part have to work within the confines of the existing system to get what I want, and that to cross one's arms and huff at the non-ideal nature of existing circumstances as an excuse for failing to take the necessary action to achieve what I want is contemptible. However, when considering the issue at population scale I am not inclined to extrapolate that to a "fuck you, got mine, deal with it faggots" attitude towards people exploited by the existing system, because their welfare is important to me, and I am not content to see them ground underfoot according to some kind of darwinian reasoning that "they've brought it on themselves by their inadequacy" when I can observe that this is largely not true and they are, rather, simply being taken advantage of
>>545410475I cannot seize the means of production without getting shot, no
You, the Individual Human, the Free Agent; you aren't reliant on Society. Society is reliant on You, that is your bargaining power, because you truly do not have participate in the game. You can just do things for yourself, for your own people, because the means, knowledge, and availability is, and was always Universal. However, the message falls upon deaf ears if you choose to value your personal time/effort more than your own agency and ability to just do things. If you choose to be a slave, then at least choose to be one. I am here to say "You know you don't have to be one right? There's nothing stopping you from just doing so, and learning how the world, how things works, and making them for yourself, even in the most complex of things. The only thing stopping you, is you, and your invisible conditioning that tells you to value your time/effort over your own agency. To save time and effort, to gain comfort, at the expense of your self confidence in an inherit ability to simply just assemble simple and complex systems for yourself, for whatever desire you want. And it is a mighty, beautiful trance; but here's the funny thing. "It's not real." You can live as a Free Agent, and just do things for yourself. >>545412022Here's the thing, to change the world, you must first change yourself. Once you empower yourself, don't become the enemy by exploiting others, use your empowerment to empower others. Join me in telling people to their face "You can do much more." while being laughed at being told "Doing more? But the beards and circus!" >>545412246>thinking about a pulley, gets you shot. >picking grass in a field gets you beaten up>brewing home grown coffee gets you crucified. >Getting up and doing a sit up gets 3 hard hitting pipe niggas to bust your head up.
>>545412378you are not talking about seizing existing means of production anymore
>>545412424And yet you here you are co-inflating the basic principle of "simply getting up and doing things" with the existing means of production.
>>545412496conflating, I assume you mean? your message is incoherent, and I was responding to the initial premise of>the means of production are easily seizedand pointing out that you are woefully incorrect
>>545412911>The means of production aren't easily seizedYou can just go to the river and get the river, all you have to do is get up and move. >Yeah, but what about the water pump that gets a lot of water. You can study how it works, its principles and build your own, the principles of how things operate and work are not gatekept or pay-walled; knowledge, Chemistry, Physics, and Thermodynamics is Open Source and Free. All it takes is time and effort to understand how to exploit those free Open source repositories that are literally waiting for you to utilize them. Where people seem to be butthurt here is saying "NUH UH, YOU CAN'T JUST DO WHAT COMPANY DID?" Yes, you can. Simply learn how the company did it, and do it yourself, but better to serve your own goals. Again, all it requires is time and effort, of which you, as the Individual in the Industrial trance believes has more worth than your own agency and ability to do things for yourself. You choose to remain in the trance, that benefits the one who puts you in a trance, that cannot exist without people to put a trance into; when all you have to do is shake your head and say "Wait a minute, I can do this myself, after all, you did." And somehow, this is a revolutionary, naive, and offensive statement? Hahaha!
Yeah, just seize China's colossal production infrastructure. I want it done yesterday.
>>545413270>you didwho did?
>>545413343What is stopping you from doing so on a local and subjective level? Are you letting invisible Chinese people stop you from getting up from your chair, walking to a river, and getting free water? >>545413419>Who did? Pretty much the people giving pushback when I'm asking to realize "All you have to do is put in some time and effort and do things for yourself rather than having to rely on others, who rely on you relying on them."
>>545413526you're saying that the people you are taunting built the means of production, or replicated them? what?the means of production, as they stand today, were built on the backs of generations of innovation and hard labor, more of it from people treated as subhuman slaves than not, and are fiercely guarded by the narrow-minded yet long-sighted, the small and greedy, with the threat of violence being the only backing to their societal order
>>545413572What I am saying, by taunting people who say reproducing the means of production because knowledge and physics, thermodynamics, chemistry and physical laws of the Universe are universally free, is that they are lazy, short sighted, and overly reliant on systems that they don't actually need, but rather the inverse that said systems rely on their reliance. The means of production as they stand today, yes, they do exist on generational knowledge and effort; but that too, is available to you, which is why I say Human Knowledge is cumulative and Open source. All you have to do, is look at something, disassemble it, understand it, and make it for yourself. If you're saying there is violence involved, then I am asking you, "Where is the Stasi at your door when you plant a seed, go to the river to bottle your own water, when you create a bench, a printing press in your garage, when you create your own clock? When you create your own engine? Where is the line when the sycophant, and hired thugs get involved? When you start home brewing moonshine? When you start making your own weapons? When you start building your own computers? When you start making your own software? That's the point I'm trying to drive home. "You believe in the threat of violence, and this stops you from proceeding, however, when does it actually happen, and if it does happen at "You've disassembled our product to study it, you must suffer" then one has to ask "What gives that corporation or company the right to say that?" Why not sue entropy at that point? You co-inflate the extremes with the mundane to prevent you from doing the mundane; and here I am, telling you guys "You can simply do the mundane" and you laugh at me like I am telling you something alien. Did you know at end of Harrison Bergeon, all he did was a simple human jump, but to everyone else, it looked supernatural and superhuman? This is the similar situation here.
>>545414044I seenewer models still have trouble tracking participants and tense
>>545414209Who said there had to be participants outside of you and your immediate circle of influence? Focus the self first, then the immediate circle, then to the circle beyond that. That is how these things work; where it got fucky, and will get fucky again, is that the systems ultimately never changed about focusing on the self and immediate circle. This is why I laugh and chuckle; "Those who seize the means of production for themselves will ultimately replay the same mistakes of the past simply because they are focusing on themselves too much, rather than doing it for the sake of doing so; where the concept of "Be able to do so" is somehow offensive and alien." It is an extremely high comedy in that yes? "You can literally just make your own casino with your own hookers and blackjack" "NUH UH." Just build a shelter, get some cards, and whores. The person who does it for the sake of making money, simply becomes the new industrialist (extremely funny) The person who does it simply to do it, gets to say "See, it's that easy, just do it." which again, is hilarious because people in the industrliast trance say "This shouldn't be possible with all the invisible obstacles that exist!" Like, that's the funny part of it, it's like, someone staring and gawking at a man building his own pump, house, or farm and saying "What ancient knowledge does he posses?" My man, you have that access to, you have that ability. You just have forgotten because you're in a trance.
>>545414587Erstwhile those who cheer and empower the industrialist by saying "I cannot do it nor do want to understand how things" are literally championing their own willful ignorance to trade their own agency to a parasite, that again, cannot exist with people who believe as such. It is the highest of comedies yes, and you should laugh as well at how absurd it is. You can literally just go to a library and pick up a book. You can literally just use the internet to learn things. You can walk into a classroom without attending the college and get the knowledge for free. If you get security called on you, simply argue using the Socratic method, any school worth their salt in caring about education would be willing to entertain it. (Do not do this at business schools, you will be arrested because that's a business and not a forum of learning) However, there is literally, no rule, nothing stopping you from walking into any business and saying "Teach me how this works, I want to know." There is nothing stopping you from going to a library and understanding the world and Universe around you. No one is stopping you, there exists no Stasi, no police force who says "You are forbidden from doing so." Unless you live in North Korea, Iran, or a literal fascist country where knowledge and Free Social Agent is the enemy. If Union people want to keep the knowledge gatekept? So be it, understand and study the derivatives of their practice to replicate it on your own. No one is going to stop you, because we don't live in Harrison Bergeron times, despite people seeming to think and act like we do. All you have to do is put in personal effort, and time; if you do not wish to put it in, you are lazy, reliant, or a coward.
