/pol/ has been taken over by defeated males who want a nanny state for white people. This is a re-education thread, to remind you:>no one is coming to save you>no one owes you anything>your "nation" is an abstraction created to foment war>your "race" is a myth>you cannot punish a collective (indians) for the crime of an individual>you cannot punish an individual for the potential to commit crime>eastern asians outperform "whites" and commit less crime>free market economics lifted millions from poverty after communists gave up their totalitarian fantasy>there are no externalities, and even if they existed, state regulation is subject to capture>environmental policy is self-destructive>labor protection laws destroyed the US manufacturing>the state that grows the most in the USA is the one with the most immigration>the founding fathers were not Adolf Hitler and would not stand by your positionsWhere can I start with libertarianism? Useful overview:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ZFETatNTYStarter book:https://www.liberalstudies.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Economics-in-One-Lesson_2.pdfMake /pol/ libertarian again.
>>545451508Libertarian / anarchocapitalism reading list:OBLIGATORY:>Economic calculation under the socialist commonwealth (Ludwig von Mises)https://cdn.mises.org/Economic%20Calculation%20in%20the%20Socialist%20Commonwealth_Vol_2_3.pdfExplains the information role of price, profit, losses and interest rates, and how they guide the application of capital and scarce resources towards their most profitable role.Basically, explains why you need to stop bitching about companies not wanting to sell you RAM sticks so they can sit in your rig while you watch porn. If it is more profitable to sell energy and computer parts to AI developers, it is because that is a more valuable application of resources than selling it to (You).>but I can't afford a private computer anymoreUse GeforceNow. There are tons of services to serve you.
>>545451508we're not falling for it, jew
>>545451508I disagree Only white people are capable of libertarianism
>>545452093I actually agree with a lot of his points.The thing is that the closest we have gotten to a libertarian society was when the US was majority white and land was cheap and easy to get.
>>545451508>/pol/ has been taken over by defeated males who want a nanny state for white people.yup, only kind of state that's succeeded since the industrial revolution. now go back to your jewish Gríma Wormtongues who exist just to run defense for military dictatorships and slave labor.
>>545452207Funny, because it is brown people and hispanic donors the may funders of libertarianism, and libertarianism first rose to power in brown countries in South America (pic related).>>545451508POLICIES THAT LIBERTARIANS DON'T STAND FOR:>tariffs (weakens the competitiveness of local industries and result in higher prices for companies and consumers)>regulation (creates redtape that needlessly hampers business in the name of "protecting" consumers, leading to higher prices; who regulates the regulators?)>border control (the state can't keep drugs out of jail, what makes you think it can keep immigrants out?)>the drug war (why is it your fkn business what other people do with their bodies?)
>>545451508you got some points of libertarianism wrong. >your "race" is a mythLibertarianism, as a political philosophy, is race-neutral. It doesn't establish that race is real, nor does it establish that race is fictitious. Those are questions left to individuals to decide for themselves. libertarianism recognizes the individual's right to freedom of association. Someone may prefer associating with certain groups and avoiding others, and they should be free to make those choices voluntarily, as long as they don't violate anyone else's rights. You don't get to dictate whom someone should associate with or what personal preferences they should hold.Consequently, there's no contradiction between being a libertarian and holding racist beliefs. >the state that grows the most in the USA is the one with the most immigrationWrong. Read the chapter "On Free Immigration and Forced Integration" in Democracy: The God That Failed.
>>545451508POLICIES THAT LIBERTARIANS DEFEND (controversial):>organ sales (the poor should have the right to sell their body parts in case of need)>assisted suicide (it is none of your business what other people do with their bodies)>unregulated abortion (women own their bodies and can eliminate a foreign agent) — this is controversial, and eventually forced Rothbard to back away>separation of church and state (religion has absolutely no role in politics, people should be allowed to practice their faith and values unquestioned)>vote with your feet (don't like how things are? Leave. That is really the only way to enact change. Stop being attached to your "nation")Moreover, nationalism is a cancer. It breeds entitled mediocre people with a misguided sense of superiority. Nothing good comes from nationalism.
>>545452338>I actually agree with a lot of his points.It's a prisoner's dilemma type situation.If everybody adopts libertarian principles, the whole society benefits.But if there's just one group in the society that is behaving tribally, they'll end up owning and controlling everything, and this will kill libertarianism.
>>545451508Saar thread
>>545452803>Democracy: The God That FailedNot part of the libertarian canon.The stance on IMMIGRATION is established by Murray Rothbard as an form of protectionism and hindering of profit and the international division of labor:>Immigration barriers confer gains at the expense of foreign workers. Few residents of the area trouble themselves about that. They raise other problems, however. The process of equalizing wage rates, though hobbled, will continue in the form of an export of capital investment to foreign, low-wage countries. Insistence on high wage rates at home creates more and more incentive for domestic capitalists to invest abroad. In the end, the equalization process will be effected anyway, except that the location of resources will be completely distorted. Too many workers and too much capital will be stationed abroad, and too little at home, in relation to the satisfaction of the world’s consumers. Secondly, the domestic citizens may very well lose more from immigration barriers as consumers than they gain as workers. For immigration barriers (a) impose shackles on the international division of labor, the most efficient location of production and population, etc., and (b) the population in the home country may well be below the “optimum” population for the home area. An inflow of population might well stimulate greater mass production and specialization and thereby raise the real income per capita. In the long run, of course, the equalization would still take place, but perhaps at a higher level, especially if the poorer countries were “overpopulated” in comparison with their optimum. In other words, the high-wage country may have a population below the optimum real income per head, and the low-wage country may have excessive population over the optimum. In that case, both countries would enjoy increased real wage rates from the migration, although the low-wage country would gain more. (italics original)
Bump. I'm working right now,I'll respond in a bit
>>545451508Libertarians are just leftists larping as conservatives. You're all faggots.
I’m kind of between Rawls and Nozick in the sense that I believe in the minimally redistributive state. Rawls believes in the virtue of ensuring that the standard of living doesn’t drop below a certain level for anyone, whereas I think it is better to supply people with what may be necessary such that they can achieve at least that standard of living. I don’t see this as a meaningful lessening of the incentive to work since pretty much no one is going to prefer a survival safety net over a much higher standard of living that could be achieved quite easily.
>>545451508after 3 years I can tell you that libertarianism, minarchism and anarcho-capitalism can only work exclusively in ethnically white european regions aka "high trust societies". hoppe was right all along.argenigga will flop the next year because of the insane amount of useless shitskins that don't know how to make money or just simply don't want to work. also they don't care about living in a 200% inflation rate hellhole because at least their wages kept increasing as well!
>>545451508
>>545451508>quick! Run into this shelter which keeps the statis quo! It's never been more over4 u
>>545453459If I'm remembering correctly, this passage is from Rothbard's Power and Market. In his later years, however, Rothbard was less enthusiastic about his earlier pro free immigration stance than he had been when he wrote Power and Market. He moderated his position to some extent, as you can see in his essay https://mises.org/library/book/nations-consent?Rothbard also supported Pat Buchanan, so that's pretty much real-life evidence of this.and Hoppe's chapter on immigration is the fuller, more developed and logical conclusion of Rothbard's later revised position.Hans-Hermann Hoppe's Democracy: The God That Failed is certainly part of the libertarian canon. It's one of the most significant contributions to libertarian political thought in this century. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't part of the canon.
>>545456894I'm pretty sure most of these guys acknowledged open borders would be a failure. The socialists spent most of their time in the US facepalming because all the minorities didn't work well with white unions. There's no system where this actually works outside of homogenous societies. Multicultural unionization is a failure, labor is inherently racial, 0 labor restrictions would just turn into race riots
>>545455458Succinct
>>545451508even when /pol/ was a Ron/pol/ board we hated niggers, muzzies and jews
>>545455458Libertarians >>545455657Rawls is completely wrong, no one is owed jack. He can't stress a moral argument on the ground of individual responsibility, so even if he beats Nozick, he still can't explain why a person needs to have their wealth subtracted and given to guarantee someone else's life.Rawls entered the debate already defeated.>>545456019You don't have to "like" libertarianism. No one does, because they can't withstand competition. >>545456452That thread inspired this one.>>545456894Rothbard cannot out of principle stress why borders must exist, which is his 1990s 'On freedom by consensus' idea is flawed.'We must be free because that is the logical conclusion of individual rights for property' =/= 'We must be free, but we can only be free if people want to be free.'Hoppe is filled with non-sequitur. To please conservatives, he claims freedom is actually a consequence of culture, hierarchy, family and so on. Yet himself in his Short History of Humanity claims that the rise of Europe is a consequence of a rise in IQ (which is an intrinsic characteristic of the individual).Hoppe is the St Paul of libertarianism, ultimately freestyling on the works of the jewish predecessors and proposing conjectures to create societies that already exist, like Liechtenstein. It is useless philosophy work.Hoppe's criticism on democracy pales in comparison to Bertrand de Jouvenel 'On Power'. In fact, the entire claim of Rothbard is stolen from Jouvenel.I don't like Rothbard because he is ultimately a plagiarist and an easy target, a flamboyant homossexual childless man living in an incredibly wealth society that couldn't give a damn about what he says and does not follow any of his philosophy. He rebukes himself by existing.
>>545456019Then again, you are not enjoying Milei's government because it is not meant to be good or enjoyable. If you are being harmed by his reforms, you were probably part of the problem keeping Argentina poor.The solution is always more capitalism, never less.If Milei were allowed to fire more public workers, cut more healthcare and education and sell more argentinian land and firms (which the argentinian legislative is stubbornly against), Argentina would thrive.He can't dollarize because he has nothing to offer.Once again, Wallenstein's theory of political systems is proven correct. There is an inertia of institutions, where 3rd-world breeds more 3rd-world, and 1st-world breeds more 1st-world.This is part of why Argentina should export their qualified labor force to the 1st-world, keep the unqualified, then receive aid money from family members living abroad. Argentina will sadly fail to develop institutions to crystallize Milei's legacy. And without assurance that Milei's reforms will remain and intensify, international capital will keep buying ETFs and treasuries rather than invest in Argentina.
>>545451508Libertarians are useless faggots. With that being said, this board is utterly shit because of how much money is being spent on this election cycle. It's kind of crazy. We are gonna see posts/threads made drop by like 80% overnight.
>>545458283You are either the world's greatest ruseman or the most insufferable autistic lolbert. I am leaning towards the first one.
>>545459438>autisticI just want a system that is entirely consistent on a principle (self-ownership of the individual). If it is autism that I do not subject my principles to the whims and passions of the historical moment, I am sorry.I sound irreductible and may be offensive because I am this passionate about individual freedom.Someone has to be, we are split between communists and fascists and proto-nazism these days.
>>545459438Libertarianism attracts people who enjoy consistency. We don't want to sound cool, we want to be the most rational, even if the conclusions are ugly or unpopular.Economics and rights need to be ruled divorced from historical context. So whenever people try to bring in demographics, war, crime, and other historical moment poisons, I recoil.The best students of libertarianism tend to be people who didn't know anything before they found it.
Impossible to truly know but it's likely we'd be much better off today had everyone just got behind Bernie in 2014
>>545451508Why did you have to put that deformed kike as OP picture?
It is true. The destruction of western civilization stems from the destruction of the family and the community and the church, which were done by the state because it wanted to control everything during the progressive era. A nation is built from families, not the reverse. If the families disappear, then the communities disappear, and then the nation disappears. First and foremost politics is always local. Democracy is always local. If there is no local democracy, then there cannot be any national democracy.
>>545461723>>545458803I am myself a libertarian, but I recognize that theories are always just models of reality and will never come close to capturing it. After all, one famous rule from economics is that the more pressure is placed upon a hypothetical rule of market behavior, the more likely it is to break down. The strong suit of libertarianism is not its ability to accurately chart reality, but the moral caliber of its laws. Specifically, the idea of sound money is the fundamental basis of civilization on a moral level, the idea that you work for tokens, and fiat currency is morally evil because it gives a party the ability to give themselves money, which is cheating. We can never be puritanical about theories, because we must always recognize that they bow before reality, yet we also need clear rules of right and wrong for society, and that is where libertarian economics can heal our society. Because we have our hardest working members chasing after a game which is rigged against them, which is a civilization destroying evil.
Soooo did you cucks disown Hoppe again?
>>545462106everyone did and they did in 2020 too, evil establishment dems intentionally strangled his campaign.Trump has a lot of blame for where we are but Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, and Chuck Schumer are all equally to blame. I'd say Joe Biden too but there wasn't too much of him left mentally in 2020.
>>545461961>austro-ukrainian jewish man takes jabs at germans while being a refugee sponsored by the Rothschild in the USA and later working on the Kalergi Plan>complains about immigration of unwanted people when he himself only escaped the holocaust thanks to american jewsBoth Mises and Rothbard have detractors and supporters claiming they were for open and closed borders simultaneously. Ultimately, he was a man who lived to a very old age, like Rothbard, and allowed himself to be warped by passions of the historical moment. Mises, like Rothbard, abided to David Ricardo's theory on the international division of labor and comparative advantages to maximize utility and prosperity. He would not stand for unreatricted immigration because Mises was not and never was a libertarian, he is an economist from the 1st-half of the previous century. Libertarianism comes from Rothbard. Mises would have no problem with H1Bs, since he himself immigrated in a very similar fashion to an H1B, and the fact H1Bs are the hypothetical pre-vetted qualified labor force system that chooses for efficient and likeminded individuals.https://share.google/wJNSvvJhSmcZTEM2FThe debate whether Mises or Rothbard were 100% for bringing in all of India into the West is useless, because you can argue for both positions based on economic and political philosophy respectivelly. The ambiguity is useful because more sycophant libertarians can go to the right and say libertarianism is for closed borders due to circumstance, then you can go to the left and say libertarianism is for open borders due to principle. I just don't want to lie to any of you, and pretend that libertarianism is national-socialism. It is not.>>545462195>deformed kikeAyn Rand, Menger, Mises, Hayek, Hazlitt, Rothbard were all jews. The austrian economics school might as well be called the jewish school of economics.If you hate jews unconditionally, you really shouldn't be here.
>>545463552>The austrian economics school might as well be called the jewish school of economics.Von Böhm Bawerk invented it, Hoppe perfected it. The kikes just appropriated and distorted it like they do every single time.
>>545451508Get rid of the open borders shit and I can't argue with the rest
>>545451508>just be ruled by jewish corporationskys
>>545451508>Socialist nanny-State that will jump in with taxpayer monies to bail out troubled billionaires who've oopsied on risky bets!>None for you goy, your cancer diagnosis, your problem!
>>545451508i used to believe that shit too, then i grew up.you cant have 1776 without 1488. denying this fact is denying reality.
>>545463552There wouldn't be nearly as much mass immigration in a libertarian society. The government pays for their welfare, education, healthcare, etc, while making it illegal not to hire them or even (de facto) to politically organize against them. Countries like africa with weak states are the most hostile to immigrants because mob rule is still active there and they'll lynch unwelcome foreigners.
>>545463419The people who fund both parties, and own the SCOTUS were NOT putting up with a Bernie Presidency.It could undo all of Mitch's Great Works.
>>545463983>Libertarians will create a national climate resembling the CongoOh I have no doubt of it.
>>545462106bernie is a moron.
>>545463696Bawerk was a student of Carl Menger, a jewisb marginalist economist.Claiming Bawerk invented this school of thought is a revisionist antissemitic lie. Shame on you.>Hoppe fanboyYou just want to wank the swiss intellectuals exploiting antissemitism of the rightwing.Piss off. If the swiss could have come up with the austrian school of economics, they would have come up with it.It was instead austro-ukrainian jews who did.Also, Hoppe is not an economist, so he can't perfect any economix theory. He is too busy sucking off the king of Liechtenstein.>>5454638581776 were all business men eho would be okay with an aristocracy of rich whites ruling over an unenlightened mass of blacks, browns and poor whites.I don't get what you are on about. The american Constitution is not Mein Kampf.
>>545463854who are you quoting, retard?
>>545464261Carl Menger wasn't jewish you fucking retard.
>>545464122Congo still belongs to the Congolese, anon.>>545464261We'll be as antisemitic as we like. Libertarianism is nothing new. Basic concepts of limited government and sound money were the norm before the 20th century. I like Rothbard, but not enough to say Jews have been good for America. At some point private interest groups become powerful enough to assume state like levels of totalitarian control, and our media and banking have done that, while being overwhelmingly jewish.
>>545451508>nation is an abstractionOh it's retarded. Next you'll say the family is an abstraction.>free market economics lifted millions from povertyWrong. Free market economics never did this. A free market in actuality has never existed, somebody will always control the market and you spread libertarian ideas because you're a kike and the myth of a free market allows you to assume control of the market with zero competition.>environmental policy is self-destructiveJust lolLibertarianism is quite literally a trojan horse. There is no laissez faire. There never will be, because degeneracy and self destructive behaviours are cancers that aim to spread themselves as much as possible. It's like not cutting off a necrotic limb because the gangrene hasn't reached your vital organs yet. Libertarians are the same sort of childish delusional retards as communists who cling to an idealistic utopian model that has never existed and will never materialize. All either accomplishes is destroying their nation and ultimately themselves. Nobody cares about theory, we judge ideologies on what they produce, and libertarians have produced nothing.
>>545452207agreed. they (and the japanese) are the only ones concerned about stuff other than raping, killing, eating and other animal-like stuffyou have to have at least 100 white people to be able to absorb 1 criminal or non-white
>>545464261>Hoppe is not an economistOooh so he wasn't vetted by the right jews?My apologies!
>>545451508Nope, politics is basically dead. Nobody is getting back on the plantation.
>>545464464His mother was jewish. He was circumcised. His parents weren't married. Judaism is matrilineal.Once again, for a philossemitic audience, libertarians will say he was jewish. For an antissemitic one, we say he was austro-polish-ukrainian.He was more jew than he was anything.
>>545464614>Oh it's retarded. Next you'll say the family is an abstraction.OP is obviously some leftist trying to make use of the thread to beg for money, although confusing "nation" for "state" may be unintentional and a consequence of their precarious (drugged up) mental statethere were other "libertarians are left" threads/posts some years ago, they must be really desperate to exploit this area of their psychosis again
>>545464857Libertarians are closer to the Left than to the retarded Right these days. The Right is no longer fiscally conservative, rational and pro-market. Democrats have been better for the economy than Trump and Bush.Republicans have gone completely mad.>>545464712Hoppe is basically irrelevant outside of appealing to entry-level edgy initiates (who, these days, just want nazism).
>>545465056>unironically confirms it's a "libertarians are leftists" posterlol
>>545464614Nation, family, tribes, clans and religions are everywhere. Free market isn't. Every society outside the West is conservative, yet only the West (the most liberal) led to the free market.The idea that "institutions" led to the rise of the West is just coward talk to just saying "white people led to the rise of the West", but Hoppe is too irrelevant to be leftist, but too cowardly to be extreme right. So he settles for this weird civic nationalism that is "we are secretly racist, u guysss".But sure, we (libertarians) will lie to you and say libertarianism is trad and conservative and christian, if that floats your boat. Whatever gets the job done to make hillbillies and poor whites defend the end of their welfare state.
>>545465175I am a newfag. I joined two months ago.Piss off.I don't care about "board culture".
OP is obviously a far-left faggot, but those of the Mises institute are based.
Libertarianism doesn't make any sense considering the most productive, well off countries in the world have enormous amounts of government interventionSingapore's government, which is considered the "freest in the world" has government ownership of all land and healthcare.In Hong Kong, you have a similar story with the government heavily subsidizing healthcare and housing. Libertarian theories don't apply in real life, no individual is an island.
>>545451508>you cannot punish a collective (indians) for the crime of an individualPerhaps one SHOULDN'T, but history clearly shows it happens all the time
>>545465982You're reasoning based on anecdotes, rather than from logic and theory. The problem with that is, now you can be convinced of a lot of strange things since you don't truly understand the issues.
>>545465855Mises is jewish. You'd not call him white.Very ironic.He'd have died in Europe if people had discriminated against him like he does to slavs.Kalergi plan asset had an edgy racist phase before real edgy racists expelled him from Europe.
>>545466389I'm not sure how you can argue useless erudition is a substitute for reality Unless you're some kind of unemployed philosopher with no experience in the real world, like most online libertarians
>>545466389Exactly.Unprincipled thought just leads to incongruent opinions based on momentaneous passions. Those passions that seem so reasonable today are just strange and insane in the next.To base your political philosophy on the principle of self-ownership of the individual, however, allows for consistency that is not anywhere else.
>>545465982both of those countries took off after privatization of markets and increased freedom of trade with other countries. china saw this and moved toward that direction as well; see further: special economic zones.>>545466445not an argument.
>>545451508Libertarianism is feckless centrism disguised as some sort of retarded political stoicism. In the mind of a Libertarian power simply doesn't exist. It's even more of a religious project than liberalism or even Marxism. Tankie troons unironically have a more compelling and realistic political ideology.
>>545466768you are laughably uninformed in your straw man.
>>545466717>both of those countries took off after privatization of marketsWhich is a non sequitur considering both of them have heavy state management of the economy and require it. In fact, every country in the top 10 of HDI is highly regulated and filled state ownership. Even in China, the government controls most things. The biggest banks in the world, all of which are in China, are owned by the government. In the US, they're owned by Citigroup, Chase and Bank of America.
>>545464614So the way it works is like this. When a country is in a traditional economy, things are locked up by guilds, clans, tribes....etc. This is not economically or socially efficient. But it does cultivate a well rounded gene pool. Good traits are passed on through sexual selection, the population is budding with good traits like an overripe grape vine. The free market, or capitalist economy, is like harvesting those grapes. You take all the people with talent, funnel them into the cities, put them in major positions of responsibility. Society suddenly becomes super efficient, super well ordered. The nation becomes powerful. It feels like a magic formula, suddenly this relatively backward region became a massive powerful empire. Think of Rome, ancient Germany, ye Olde Britain, or China for a modern example. The problem is, this sort of economy does not actually perpetuate those genes. It just uses them. It's like strip-mining the population, ripping out all the valuable ore, and leaving behind a husk. The the empire has to import foreign talent, and slowly decline and become unstable. So capitalism, free markets, is an extremely effective way to organize society. Mostly, insofar as it breaks up rigid social customs and puts the talented people in charge. However it's a very destructive and non-renewable process that leaves society, culture, and ultimately the population destitute. I also think there are some collective-solutions that are just downright superior to the free market ones. Because people are not entirely seflish, they are a bit more tribalistic, so there's other structures that can work pretty effectively besides just the profit motive.
Also China is one of the least freest countries in the world lolLike what are you doing here broYou can't even ACCESS 4chan in China, and they've pretty much absorbed Hong Kong's government
>>545467045>The free market, or capitalist economy, is like harvesting those grapes.In a free market economy, corporations use cancer causing pesticides on the grapes and then use the money to pay the government for immunity
>>545453270Sounds like communism. This is why there need to be some safeguards and ground rules for a libertarian society to avoid enabling those who only want to exploit and destroy you.
>>545466717>compulsory opening because my fantasy anarchocapitalism rule by corporations is differentOnce again, Rothbard is pro open borders in the Manifesto of the Libertarian Party. In the same article you are quoting (which I indicated to you), you find pro-open border arguments.Embarrassing Rothbard, it is Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft INVITING the indians to America. It is companies hiding job offerings to americans so they can hire indians from abroad.So, as I said, "Rothbard is anti-open borders" is just a sophistic tool to get potential libertarians from shutting the door on our face.By following Rothbard's own argument on companies inviting people in, the historical experience is that companies will ironically rather have indians work for them that the americans themselves.So anarchocapitalism land would be a multicultural heaven, not Nazi Germany, since that is what companies already do when unimpeded.Rothbard is a genius, that he can sound so ambiguous that people barely notice how you can sneak in any possible thought to any possible audience.If I wanted to lie to you guys, it'd be sooooo easy.
>>545466717Privatization in Russia did not make it richer or most of Eastern Europe
>>545467490Libertarians talk all the time about corporate capture of government though. I think what they miss is the IQ factor, the population is often too dumb to make rational choices, like not eating the contaminated food. That's where the libertarian goes to social darwinism and starts saying things like "well the smart ones won't eat the contaminated food and will thrive more"...etc. That's actually Trump's mindset. Social darwinists like Trump have the idea that life is like a minecraft world. No matter what circumstances you fall into, the best will rise to the top. It could be a communist state, a capitalist state, a medieval kingdom, doesn't matter. The more powerful souls will always find a way to rule and dominate. The problem with this thinking, it ignores the greater good. They just think about the power of the individual and his right to dominate others, not the power of the greater society, or duty to the whole.
>>545467906>Libertarians talk all the time about corporate capture of government though.Yeah, libertarians talk about things. They don't actually do things. That's largely why they don't have power anywhere.>I think what they miss is the IQ factorThey miss the fact that a "free market economy" just gives corporations freedom from social responsibilities, and that will never be politically viable when your opposition will become popular and kill you.
>>545467905Eastern Europe is being made a lot richer right now because of Western capital pumping money in to buttress them against Russia. Same thing happened to china when they opened up their country to manufacturing (exploitation). Capital flowed in, and the wealth of the country skyrocketed. But the people organizing this are a gang of thugs, oligarchs, like Trump and Soros, making these decisions over a grand chessboard. They aren't just fee market actors.
>>545451508Jeet thread
>>545468094>That's largely why they don't have power anywhere.Libertarians might not have power, but libertarian ideas are massively influential in Washington. This ideology is being used in a malicious way to push for de-regulation, lower taxation. I say malicious because the corporations and individuals responsible are not doing this for good faith reasons. They are often raking in billions from the government itself. Like who can argue a federally-insured bank should have no regulations?
>>545468127Almost every Eastern European country is stagnating in life expectancy and demographics. And even with privatization, they're still poorer than Western Europe.Privatization only moved wealth into the hands of oligarchs, who got richer. It did not make the country better off, which is why pro-Russia attitudes are much higher there. Even in East Germany, we see the difference with the AfD being the strongest there.
>>545468357I can.If you regulate companies, the companies themselves capture the regulating agencies.Only companies can regulate themselves and each other.If you regulate companies, the big companies just use it to enforce barriers to entry in the market. Thus by regulating companies, you create monopolies.Same goes to environmental policy, labor rights and everything else.State intervention ALWAYS, ALWAYS lead to unintender consequence.>John gets his union to enforce better wages>yay.jpeg>company leaves to China and John goes homelessTale as old as time.
>>545468357>but libertarian ideas are massively influential in Washington.Is that why the government debt and size of the US government keeps growing and why tariffs and restrictions on data centers is popular?
>>545468813Not all libertarian ideas, only the ones that are useful to their purposes. In particular the ones about cutting taxes and regulations, they really like those ones. And I'm not saying those policies are entirely bad in and of themselves, but the people pushing them are not doing it for good faith reasons whatsoever.
>>545468813>tariffsThe tariffs were sold to as a way to rebuild domestic manufacturing. But if you look at Trump's tariffs as-implemented, they were an attempt to replace the income tax. Like a lot of wealthy people Trump really really hates the income tax. > restrictions on data centersData centers are an abomination.
>>545468936US is largely a gerontocracy, and the cutting of taxes and regulations primarily benefit boomersIt has little do with libertarianism because the US government driven by political expediency and money, they don't have the intelligence to map out an ideology The US is a nation of lawyers and sophists, not engineers and philosophers
>>545451508This kills the White Socialist
>>545469079Tariffs aren't just popular with RepublicansEven Democrats support them because unions see them has helping them because foreign competition puts them out of workAmericans just have short term memory and forget Biden was also very protectionist
>>545469207The federal reserve is a massive problem. I don't know why free market guys keep defending the federal reserve, which is a state-run financial system that was one of the core planks of the Communist Manifesto. For some reason whenever you question the fed they call you a communist.
>>545451508National Socialism is an infectious left wing ideology that must be violently purged.
>>545451508retarded jeet thinks im gonna read all that social engineering faggotrykek sage
>>545451508>globohomo jew memeflag wants lolbert shit again now that White men aren’t on the farm anymore Shalom moishe
>>545452207Explain Singapore
Get rid of miggers first, then we'll talk.
>>545469310>>545469461>>545469588Gtfo larp lord.
>>545469355The Communist Manifesto in general is an odd document with even more idiotic ideas such as abolishing buying and selling, and its not necessarily representative of communismMarx was not inventor of communism, and there is/was still plenty of disagreement about it
>>545469310What is the ancap account for contradictions? Contradictions are usually intellectually important because they indicate a lack of an ability for something to be realized. Ancaps argue that every human society is a contradiction. At that point, what even is the impetus for avoiding these so-called “contradictions.” Theological authors used to make similar arguments about scientific theories which were physically demonstrated to be accurate and laid the foundation for much of the engineering that made the modern world possible. Maybe your own logical universe of discourse is just more restricted than you think, and trying to flatten the diverse particularity of the world into syllogism is much harder than most of you give it credit for.
>>545469355>I don’t know why these globohomo jews who claim to be free market want the fiat money printing machine to continue indefinitely Dang yeah that sure is a strange position for libertarians. It’s almost as if they’re lying kikes who just need the lolbert shit to keep the gravy train going
>>545469588Singapore is just an urban sink.A modern economy works like this1) Scout the valuable people through the school system. Anyone with good traits, beauty, intelligence, acting talent...etc.2) Bring them all to the urban cores. There they work, and produce insane, unreal levels of economic output. So much economic output, it lifts entire nations. 3) Those people don't have kids, don't pass on their genes4) Find more of them to bring in.5) When you run out domestically, start importing foreigners.That is how the modern urban economy works. That is how Singapore works too. It's harvesting the talent of asia, wringing them out for temporary economic boost, then killing them off through low birthrates.
>>545451508Libertarianism or any sort of liberal philosophy is fundamentally incompatible with a multicultural society. The kind of society Libertarians want is only possible in a high-trust, homogenous, moral, religious nation that actively participates at the civic and all other levels to maintain it while excluding those who cannot participate in it.
>>545469736I don't necessarily have a problem with fiat currency. I think the government should supply currency. My problem is, why is the currency debt? Why do we have this weird house-of-cards system of debt paying off other debt? I think this system was set up deliberately, to collapse. They crashed the economy in 1929, deliberately, so FDR could transition us to a communist state. WW2 fucked that up, and forced FDR to re-prioritize his focus. But as a result we're stuck with this broken, busted, debt-based banking system that was *literally designed to collapse*. I don't think the house of cards can go on forever.
>>545469706Everything in existence is cyclical in nature anon. Evaluating the extremes of any position is akin to zeroing out conditions to conduct failure analysis. The globohomo jew system is inherently reliant on extreme pendulum swinging of ideologies across generations. That’s why they’re naming generations all the time and obsessing over the particular generation people belong time. Extreme pendulum swinging like that enables various social and economic systems to be more easily monetized. For the owners this is a great arrangement, but for the goyim involved it’s awful. It’s so bad everyone just stops having children and families after a few generations and then new replacements who don’t have all that inherited understanding and trauma come in to be the new goyim suckers. in a society which is legitimately actually Christian, the pace of life is far slower and more level headed. People don’t get tired from life after a generation or two, they keep having children. They work together. Importantly though, scientific and economic achievement slows down, as does learning. When human interactions aren’t a part of the economy we’re legitimately just sharing it for free. That doesn’t show up as GDP. Anyway, there is no perfect answer. Ancaps aren’t wrong, they’re just extreme solutions for extreme systems.
>>545469849Funny you say this, because homogenous, high-trust societies tend to opt for national socialism or any form of reactionary plutocratic / aristocratic system rather than capitalism. You never see the proud homogenous nation of Borneo saying, "From this day onwards, we won't regulate the private sector!"You cannot, like we employ Hoppe to convince children, have a libertarian society sprouting from conservatism. Liberal values enter, capitalism grows after. Democracy unironically has helped expand capitalism, and anyone who tries to push the "we need to be a white ethnostate to become libertarian" just want the white ethnostate.Hoppe is such a joke, Jesus Christ. I feel like a midwit for even humoring him once.
>>545469971>I like the idea of kikes controlling the money supply >but I don’t like all of the negative consequences of that What? A fiat system is a debt based system you ignorant nigger.
>>545468773>Company leaves to ChinaThe Koch Family funded Stalin's industrial revolution, and he ended up killing most of their associates in the Soviet Union. If anything, you're just showing "free markets" prioritize short sighted hubris over long-term consequences.
>>545470369Except for America which stayed democratic and didn't even begin to change until an influx of Continental Europeans who were brain-rotted by generations of servitude and authoritarian conditions.Someone is always going to regulate a market in some kind of way; it's necessary to protect a community or nation from exploitation. It's best when sovereignty is vested in the people and government can be used as a tool to regulate things for the benefit of the people.Why are you telling me what I want? I can tell you what I want: a racially exclusive republic, like what we had for the majority of our history.
>>545470475>A fiat system is a debt based systemNo I mean, what if the fed supplied currency, and then the government introduced currency into the economy? No loans, no debt. Currency is just...currency. As opposed to the current system where the fed loans money to the banks, who loan the money out, and and then governments borrow it....etc. Why does our system work that way? It doesn't make sense. If the government wants to spend money, just spend the money. I think, for example, about all the underutizilized people in my own state. They don't create anything. Why doesn't the government just scoop up those people, put them to work? Well, because the government can't, because the government is barely managing its finances. Why should it be that way? If the government wants to employ those people, it should just find the money to do it. You know what I mean?
>>545451508>>your "race" is a myth>your "DNA" is a mythNo
>>545453459democracy the god that failed is libertarian canon if you're not a cuck faggot.
>>545469971Currency is always debt in any form
>>545456452read hope, retard.
We need to bring it back
>>545458283Yes you're a leftist playing LARP, kill yourself. Libertarian
>>545470851>Currency is always debt in any formHow? Currency is supposed to be a representation of value. Not an IOU
>>545470851that's not true retard
>>545458283Yes you're a leftist playing a game of LARP, why don't you kill yourself.Libertarians are leftist faggots with their finger under their nose going "I can't be a leftist, I have a mustache".
>>545451508>just let me dump some chemicals in the local rivers bro please just a little more dumping
>>545451508>>no one is coming to save you>>no one owes you anything>and you owe no one anything, not even peace or subjugation to any laws or social normsWhen you were born did you sign the NAP or a peace agreement with the world? Nope. Fuck everyone equally. Anarchists rise up against each other!
>>545471045>Libertarianism is when dumb chemicals in riberretard lol
OPs thread smells like shit, like himself.
>>545471189finally some braincells.
>>545469849>nigger steps on your propriety>shoot himhurrr libertarianism is not compatible with diversity durrrrr
>>545451508I think I heard a faint echo from the dustbin of history. Did a libertarian say something?
>>545471369>libertardians would prevent ppl from dumping shit in the riverno they wouldnt theyre the wettest, floppiest pussies in the world
>>545471189>politically enforced multiculturalism is badThe unspoken statement here is that he expects a "good" multiculturalism created by le free market. Fuck lolbertarians. Dead end ideology.
>>545471841spoken like a true retard who has never read hoppe and can't sum 2 and 2 together and figure out that the point is that multicultural experiments are simply killed off by the market mechanism if they aren't protected with political authority.
>>545451508Quality thread on pol, unbelievable
>>545471841
>>545467905>Privatization in Russia did not make it richer or most of Eastern Europe"Privatization" in Russia involved rich assholes buying up state industries for pennies, asset-stripping them, and depositing the money in USA, Switzerland and other foreign countries.
Can we keep this general after the elections?
>>545472385So what you're saying is privatization doesn't make a country automatically richer unless there is some regulation to prevent thatPretty sure that defeats the purpose of libertarianism when the invisible hand was suppose to ensure a more optimal outcome
>>545451508Fuck off jeet
>>545451508Simple questionLolbert = 3 gorillion indians because it's cheaperYes or no?
>>545471280Based. A real anarchist is a Lion. He does not ask the opinion of the sheep when deciding his aggression and predation of them. Libertarians are fags who can't understand this basic fact of reality. They imagine themselves as Lion and then cry "muh statism" or "collectivism" when a true Lion fucks them and takes their shit. Violence and Aggression are valuable market goods. They will be sold and people will make collectives to purchase collective security which itself require people who can do violence and aggression. You can no more ban "aggression" from human markets than you can make Sharks vegans. There are no "Free Market" solutions in economics only trade-off between different regulatory regimes.
>>545473077>anarchist lion>playing solo on a team servergood luck
>>545473077>>545473482i have seen this exact bot post pairing alreadyjesus christ am i the only actual retard left here.thats it, im out.
>>545473077This is the truth, you don't gotta dress up the truth because the truth is the truth, and it's short and consise. And I'm no larper either when it comes to this... I was almost enied bail because my "violence is escalating" when if they really knew who I used to be they wouldn't utter such nonsense. Fuck the feds and fuck everyone else too.
>>545473720Really? Well that makes two of us here...
>>545451508California's top-two party system is shit. I'll have to vote R all the way.
>>545472531This general requires a lot of work to maintain. Look at the quality of these posters, it is a dumpster. They need to be educated and made into libertarians again, but frankly I struggle too much to get any point across.I preach libertarianism in an unapologetic very tasteless way because I don't want dumb normies in it, just people willing to stick to principle all the way to its most desirable and undesirable logical conclusions.If you want to keep making libertarianism discussions, you'll have to do it yourself, I'm afraid.I don't think I have the patience to teach people who really don't give a damn about principles and means, and really just want to live in a quiet ethnostate without any of this disturbance.Libertarianism is very off the zeitgeist these days, even if most americans still believe in the virtue of selfishness and the sin of charity.I used to think americans would naturally go to libertarianism, but they instead just became darwinists. They want to draw blood, not simply close the IRS. Blood is where I draw the line. I don't believe in violence in any form.If you want to lie to these people and pretend libertarianism will give them Nazi Germany, youi'll probably have an easier time.
>>545451508>rothbard>mises>randWhy do all these names smell like matzah?
>>545451508Libertarianism = crypto-communism
>>545473720buhbye
>>545470962Value is not conjuredfrom thin air, it is extracted, and debt is fundamentally necessary for exchange. This shit is zero-sum
>>545451508Extremely based.If you get convinced by ideology and properly structured arguments then read Jan Narveson, there's no serious counterargument.If you get convinced by utility and practicality then read David Friedman.All bases have been covered.
