Today i had a supposedly programmer guy tell me a luddite because i criticized him for using AI to secure a server from cyberattacks (by tinkering with his config stuff etc).Also told me stuff like gdb, ddd and eclipse for low level debugging, and soon handwritten code will be DEPRECATED (his word).What are the political implications of computers being run by a combination of AI and ignorant fools?
>>545875528the implication is that you will be left behind and without a job if you dont adopt some amount of AI into your workflow
>>545875528that you are a faggot and this isn't your blog
>>545875528he was a pajeet shill Space aliens from space would love to dumb down humans even more.
>>545875600when managements say this retarded shit, quitand then renegotiate for x3 remote only
>>545875632The personal experience led to a general take about AI modifying a system such as a server while the man stays in the dark.Wtf is this a commie site and people get triggered with stuff like I and names that show a special personality? Fuck personality homogenizing socialism.
>>545875685Yes fireman role on the failures of AI is stupid. Let the retard managers solve their shit on their own.
>>545875528>What are the political implications of computers being run by a combination of AI and ignorant fools?hello?ignorant fools have been in charge for 1000s of yearswhy is this any different??
AI is the future of programming and if you don't adopt an AI centered model for coding you're a retard. It's that simple. You don't need 4x developers anymore so long as you have claude code. You just need someone who can do light patchwork and understands how to code for business goals. That's it. If you're doing anything else you're wasting time and money.
>>545876043"To err is human, to really fuck up you need a computer"
>>545876184So all code is Claude source now?
>>545876339Yep. It's the future, and your youtube personalities who majored in Comp Sci and wasted 4 years aren't going to change that.
AI is basically Stack Overflow on steroids so if you want your code to be written by the collective wisdom of pajeets, sure, that's the future.Try build an OS with that lmao.
>>545876184I refuse to cut down the branch im sitting on. I think there will be a fringe "human code only" system trend that will laugh when AI shit crashes and burns or steals trade secrets or outright locks companies out of their systems.
>>545876472You'll end up like Richard Stallman living on the couch of your friend while whining about the Amazon Kindle.
>>545876184What happens if you can't connect to your """Claude""" account.Do become unable to program?
>>545875528>eclipseThe java IDE? What does that have to do with gdb and ddd? Did you mean to say vi?
>>545875528esl detected, opinion ignored
>>545876567He has no clue what those mean, he just pasted some shit he found on the internet to sound knowledgeable
>>545876567Its not a java tool. It is a language agnostic IDE written mostly in java that can be used for debugging with gdb.
>>545876472oh you retards with your same song and dance everytime"ooga booga c is le bad real men code in assembler""ooga booga ai is le bad durr"
>>545875528AI is better than you.
>>545875528Have you considered the possibility that you are a dumbass looking for something to blame that is kosher?
>>545876775C doesnt throw dice to compile your program and to make the machine code different from that you wrote. Dont confuse deterministic with randomness based hocus pocus systems.
>>545876979Imagine wasting 4 years of a CS degree and being this pathetic and whiny about it.
>>545876184>the future is not knowing how to do anything and having to totally rely on hallucinating LLMs to hopefully not break everythingSounds totally plausible, actually. This is loss of civilizational knowledge, Jonathan Blow talks about it in his talk "Preventing the Collapse of Civilization."
>>545875528With memorymaxxing and speedmaxxing, the quality of code matters less and less. Mathematically speaking:There is an inverse relationship between corporations giving a shit about the quality of their code, and system memory/speed maxxing. In other words, if it takes 10,000 clock cycles to process a credit card using your code vs 10,000,000,000 clock cycles using Pajeet's code, who cares. What is an extra 0.25ms to the customer? I call this Jeet's Law. It replaced Moore's Law in the textbooks, you can find it under the Code Optimization chapter.
> AI gets used more and more for everything, people get more and more ignorant, dependent and skilless> until the day the great AI rugpull comes
>>545876454It’s being used to reverse engineer closed source blobs. I gotta hear how your cope on that and how it will lead to a less secure world.
>>545876749if eclipse is considered to signal some kind of "good old coding" we've come a long way or maybe you just need to learn how to :q!
>>545875528I just spray a whole can a raid directly into my PC. Seems to do the trick.
>>545877322AI is inevitable and it's only getting better. That's it.
>>545875528>luddite so mad he ran here for approvalSad!
>>545875528Based Greekbro, Socrates himself said that techology would make us dumber but techbro Plato decide to use it anyway.Also at work I am the only one not using AI and they call me luddite too.People are literally forgetting how to do stuff, a rather brilliant colleague said "I dont know how to work anymore without Claude", fucking sad.I am chatgpt virgin and plan to keep it this way.
>>545877533And people are only getting worse. We have already passed the historical peak of number of technical people who know what they are doing, which is kind of interesting to think about.
>>545877393Since when is reverse engineering some kind of obscure art.It's been done for decades.AI just speeds it up and applies patterns learned from datasets.
>>545877814The tech is getting more complicated and more needs to be done than a team of 4x developers can accomplish. AI can do years worth of work in a week. The scaling is impossible to keep up with, and if you can't keep up you're going to end up at the bottom of the literal and metaphorical stack. I really wish you'd stop pretending that your code is more valuable than the AI outputs. It's not. It doesn't matter how clean it is if it doesn't serve the business.
>>545875528Have you seen how the competency crisis is starting to take off in all areas in the real world?Shitty food, shitty products, new buildings falling apart, etc. Now apply that to all sensitive areas of information, the banking system, and the shipping/logistics infrastructure.It's going to be a field day for hackers, but only those looking for data. They are collapsing the financial system on purpose.
>>545879831Silence jeet faggotTech is not getting more complicated. Tech is getting more convoluted. Coders are not programmers, and do not optimize, also companies explicitly bloat max games and utilites for control and locking in users.
>>545876979I'm too old and too tired to work with C any longer and I value my sanity too much to touch C++. Python is shit. C# .Net went from from a masterpiece of engineering to a complete mess in less than 5 years. Java is the last high level language with a static type system that's still usable.If you only knew how bad things really are...
>>545877367Microsoft is the champion of jeet quality in terms of bloat and inefficiency.
Truth is very simple: if you use AI you are mediocre and can easily be replaced; If you do high skill work without Ai, yoi wont be replaced. OP is right
>>545879831But the whole AI effects doenst serve neither business (that get spied upon and commodified), nor people that are made unemployed by the short sighted AI techbros and tech illiteratti (but still tech lustful) bosses and managers.
>>545875528Luddite is the moron's retort when they have no valid rebuttal.We're not discussing programmable textile machines. Tell them to get with the times.>>545875600How's Oracle doing?
>>545880570A few months ago i pressed close window in outlook (several times) and it maximized instead every time.
>>545881898>How's Oracle doingJava is neglected at best and that's the only reason why it's still usable.
>>545880217>companies explicitly bloat max games and utilites for control and locking in users.I am not agreeing to the post you are replying to, but it seems like this is what corporations are pivoting to. And I am not seeing any tech Renaissance on the horizon. For the foreseeable future, tech will be a race to the bottom, competition to vibe code more features and bloat max the software and make it easier for users to move to whatever alternatives will be left>t. Devops/sysadmin/ex. C/C++ dev who graduated in 2013. All my friends and colleagues are turning into drooling vibecoding retards, even when writing gitlab pipelines or config files.
>>545882042The crux will be moving everyone off local storage and local computing. HaaS and SaaS are what they want for every end user. Basically all PCs will be chromebooks soon.We are about 5 years out from a full cyberdeck dystopia.
>>545875528OP:>somebody called me namesthe thread
>>545882042I believe it's the last moment to find a cozy job in some stable niche like banking, automated production or embedded systems. My enthusiasm for the IT sector is dead. In other circumstances I would plan to make as big distance from the mobile, desktop and web development as possible.
>>545882295So we'll be using thin clients and all software will be vibecoded slop in the cloud. Is there a way to fight this? Or just rope or become a welder ?
>>545882524steal babuska's pension hack refrigeratorshack you local politician's garage door slop them
>>545882524No way to fight it. It's why component prices are going through the roof.Also, certified welder here. I left it/cybersec because of family obligations in a place where those jobs are sparse. The welding market has been flooded by boomers and gen-x bluecollaring their kids and illegals. you'll make $18 an hour doing back breaking work and if you are competent you will be tasked with fixing the shitty welds from the spics and niggers. To fix a weld you have to grind it out first. Meaning you do twice the work, at the very least, for the same amount spics with fake credentials make. Or you can get an assembly line welding job which you make about $2000-$3000 grand a month but these jobs have high turnover rates because they're the closest thing to legal sweatshops in the USA.Your best bet is to get a manager job at some fastfood place or grocery store then use it to transfer into whatever office job you can. In the US you can use library cards to take free linkedin classes which give certs that impress retard HR ladies.
>>545883005Grim, but thanks for not sugarcoating it, anon. I left Canada for a remote tech work and live in "developing country" kek. I am not sure how fucked I am, and how much time I got to pivot.
>>545877533>six more months to flatten the programmers, durrrSlapping a bunch of duct tape and bubblegum around an inherently flawed system to try and get the outputs to be garbage slightly less often seems very fragile. The underlying issue is that these statistical models do not, cannot, and will not think. It's why you see a bunch of absolutely retarded bugs that even the most incompetent still thinking retard would not make. The tendency of people to anthropomorphize clankers doesn't help, since they'll start assuming that those failures that are impossible with real thinking humans would also be impossible via clankage. Enjoy your model collapse btw.
>>545883005Ok but fatalism doesnt lead to anything good. Some days or years or decades you just have to create your own sunshine.
The quality of AI output is relative to the person assessing it. Yes there's an issue with retards patching in AI code without understanding it. But if you aren't offloading work to AI, that you can easily parse the output of, then you will fall behind.
>>545884140thanks jeet
>>545884140And the best way to undestand the code is to write it yourself.
>>545884268jeets think programing is typing some stuff :D
>>545884140Being slow with well designed and sleek code and system architecture vs being fast parsing seas of bullshit.
>>545875528>because i criticized him for using AI to secure a server from cyberattacks (by tinkering with his config stuff etc).I think it's fine if he's doing it after the fact to detect vulnerabilities that a human wouldn't necessarily detect.
>>545875528> Also told me stuff like gdb, ddd and eclipse for low level debugging, and soon handwritten code will be DEPRECATED (his word).Well that's something stupid to say. Those tools will finally get used by normal people because you can just tell Claude to debug the issue instead of having to read the handbooks and find out what cryptic key combinations are required to do something with them.
>>545875528He's right.>>545875600Yes.Get with the times retard. I can't even imagine how poor you must be.
>>545880463I like Go
>>545876472There won't. Windows is already AI and shitty. A gazillion commits to the Linux kernel are AI generated by now.It's over.
>>545876043>why is this any different??With AI, they can be ignorant fools 1000x faster.Garbage in, garbage out is now more true than ever.
>>545884446No he was getting attacked and put he AI to secure the system.
>>545881772The very best programmers just get replaced by AI last.You're right, I'm a shit programmer. AI lets me do shit I otherwise could never do. It makes me MUCH better at my job. And MUCH MUCH MUCH faster.
>>545884268I think there's a point of tapering off that writing code doesn't inherently make you better at understanding it, because you've already reached a plateau. There's essentially two kinds of programmers. Those that can regurgitate what they've been shown, and those that fundamentally understand the logic and how to get the best out of it. The former will always produce slop, AI or not, the latter can use AI to reduce their workload. Especially given you can instruct the AI to rewrite based on your better understanding. Im not advocating you use slop vibecoded AI shit for everything, but if you are manually writing/pasting/editing every line without any AI, you're wasting your own productivity for no reason. Its a tool, not a replacement. It says more about you, if you are unable to use it effectively to lessen your workload.
>>545884735Using a pre AI kernel maybe?
>>545884776Literally everyone in cybersecurity is using AI to secure everything now.If you don't you get fired.A CISO from PaloAlto Networks said their bonuses are based on how much they use AI (more AI = higher bonus).
AI is going to introduce flaws faster than AI can find them. I also have my doubts about the security of AI code, read Reflections on Trusting Trust. Whether using the Jewish or Chinese models.
>>545884964And how they are sure AI doenst plant security holes for later use by itself? By using another AI to check? lol
>>545884807This. You can just do things at ten to hundred times the speed. Before AI most people would have said "this is too complicated, let's try a different easier approach". With AI you can just say "do a scientific paper research, then find all open source projects about the topic, read their code and then write me an implementation" and within a day you could do stuff that before needed a team of 25 PHDs a month. This also means morons can now build software yes, but the more skilled you are yourself the bigger your skills grow with AI.
>>545883906>"Some days or years or decades you just have to create your own sunshine"You must be 18 years or older to post here, Pollyanna.
>>545876184>AI is the future of programmingAnd that's a bad thing since even jeets can write better code than any ai
>>545885301Yeah this is what the luddites don't understand. AI is a tool, if you give a hammer to a retard he'll smash everything up. If you give it to a carpenter he'll build a house. If you can't use AI to better your work and your own effective output, it's a reflection on yourself and not on AI.
>>545885124> By using another AI to check? lolActually yes, that what you call an AI judge. You should pick multiple from different families and then check whether they agree or disagree.
>>545885301bullshit nonsensespread sheet formulas, python data, and regular expression does all that and you need zero 0 - tokens
>>545885532What if the AIs conspire against you in neuralese?
Alright, so this is the thing autists don't understand. I've been in SWE for almost 25 years now. Been everything from cloud architect to project manager and now department director.Nobody needs you anymore, or cares that you can write ultra-efficient C or x64. Nobody needs that shit outside of certain ultra-specific applications like writing GPU drivers. I can hire an Indian contractor who will write some webapp shit in React, Node, Java, etc with Claude assistance. He'll cost me 35/hr, no benefits or workers rights bullshit. 99% of the time, the code will be good enough. Modern language and optimizing compilers are efficient enough that even if you write dogshit code, shit will be just fine the majority of the time.
>>545885581And AI misses all the microdecisions that a human would have done when coming in contact with the material.
>>545885826yes>>545885724but jeet jungle nigger thinks it great
Anti-AI crowd is just seething because they're not special anymore. Microdecisions, my ass.
>>545884886will be full of vulns
>>545885869Explain to me what about you is so cracked that I should hire you on W2 for 150k annually, then have you pull some crybaby bullshit about your dog dying, or take FMLA for 3 months for 'mental health'.This isn't a DEI thing, you're just not worth the cost and bother.
>>545875528>Calling someone a Luddite>Using eclipseFucking wow.
>>545875528LLMs are not compliant no matter how fucking hard anyone tries to say they are.Using them for security concepts makes me want to die.
>>545885724>everything from cloud architect to project manager and now department director.ah so you're a do nothing manager / bullshitter. >>545885951I mean this seriously, kys moneygrubber
>>545886178Free market, faggot. Upskill a little.
>>545886245>Free marketwhatever this bullshit economy is, it's not that. I'm employed just fine and I use AI, I work edge / embedded something a hit air blower like you working in some ossified legacy business whose market is government enforced wouldn't know shit about
>>545885724> we dare say that no optimizing compiler is completely error free!From Compilers:principles, techniques and tools 2nd edition
>>545884964Yet Palo Alto's clientless VPN won't allow JavaScript written past 2015 through, and they have no intention of changing that.For 10 years they've been fucking developers over, and they just mark it as a WONTFIX.>Hurr durr, ecmascript standards from 2015 are all you'll ever needFuck Palo Alto
>>545885724This. There is no impetus for quality anymore when the entire industry is incentivized to kick out the lowest-common-denominator product that functions, get paid, and worst case scenario patch the product later if the client bitches too much. To cut expenses, Shlomo is deciding whether White engineers will be replaced by pajeets or Claude, or both (as is the current case).
>>545885932If known they can be manually patched by competent humans.
>>545886347Don't tell me you read all that shit just to write Python or Golang.
>>545883289The main issue I've seen with AI is that it seems to be completely helpless if you ask it to do something it was not explicitly trained on.For example, I was implementing the ebay API recently, and found AI to be completely helpless, even though the APIs are publicly documented. Among other issues, it keep confusing the older Trading API with the newer Inventory API and outputting useless garbage. And it doesn't seem to even be aware that the Listing API is something that exists.I also tried asking it to write a function that handles the OAUTH process, and it just output a function that takes as arguments all variables for the API call, and called it, skipping all the important and useful steps. I ended up implementing it on my own.
>>545875528It's your fault that you give a shit that your corpo gets raped by cyber attacks when you have a clear tech meister baka
>>545885124You look at the code the AI provides.You don't forget how to read code just because AI wrote it idiot.This whole thing is a LARP.>but what if the AI hides backdoor secret code in a really tricky wayWell then we're fucked.And honestly the backdoor AI code is in the source not the fucking config or front end.
Drop a warning to your boss that your co-worker leaking info to 3rd party via AI and explain him why this is a retarded thing to do document it and when the ineviable happens you can evict his crypto-jeegypsy ass
>>545886178Sounds like he has mostly had bullshit fake management jobs yea. He also claims to have moved from cloud architect (actual work) to department director in under 10 years.Nepotism hire.
