>>545965778idk manIve been banging a new indian cutie at work, weekly, its like a desi buffet
>>545965778He's right though. This is why countries without billionaires tend to be shit holes. Depends on how the billionaires made their money, if it's just exploiting limited natural resources like russia or African countries, it don't count.
>>545965778I don't see a problem with that.
>>545965778Because the people who invent the battery get paid 100k $ for the patent and the people becoming billionaires off it are not the inventors
>>545965778Lmao, what a retard. No actual inventor has ever become a billionaire
>>545965908I think there is one physicist and one mathematician. But it is extremely rare and both got rich from stock trading AFTER their inventions
>the inventor becomes the billionaireOh this is a cute story for children!
>>545965778but than he use that money to bring jews to power....
>>545965778He's actually correct but it doesn't map onto elon if that's what he's shilling. His cars are expensive and low quality.
>>545965903>>545965908You guys missed the point.You have to take risks and produce a good in order to earn money,otherwise, the idea isn't useful in real life. The main point was that the billionaire earned money by producing batteries at a lower cost. People bought those batteries from him, which meant that consumers saved money while the producer earned a profit.As with all voluntary trade, both sides benefited,otherwise, the trade wouldn't have taken place. Trade only happens when both parties believe that what they give up is worth less than the utility they expect to gain from what they receive.It would only be a bad thing if he made money by forcing people to buy his products. But he didn't. People voluntarily bought his goods because they believed they would benefit from them.
>>545965778Babbys first first 100 pages of Atlas shrugged.
>>545965778Kalashnikov only got a $500 bonus for reverse engineering the STG44
What stops them from selling batteries at half the price now? Other than being jewish of course
>cheaper non-sellable, non-recyclable, tinderbox meme mobilesPSA: When I go full Postal, I'll be targeting meme mobile drivers -- prioritising traitors in Burn You to Death chinkwares; with particular prejudice reserved for those wearing mug muzzles... and believe you me, I WILL be going Postal.
>>545965778>twice as cheapHalf as cheap, meaning twice the distance?
One of the earliest guys to understand/shape the internet's potential for revenue has gone pretty much forgotten. He was very good during COVID though and helped fund many things behind the scenes.This is vaguely related as I simply wanted to mention an American businessman who I think is quite admirable.He did not really make that much money (relative to what he did), Google vacuumed up most of it desu.
>>545965778>society hasnt lost 1 billion dollarsExcept it has because now that money isnt circulating and more has to be printed to make up the difference.Ome of the primary drivers of inflation is richfags hording money and not spending it on anything other than trading it back and forth among each other in a speculative bubble. Sort of like when beavis and butthead kept exchanging the same $2 back and forth instead of selling the chocolate bars to other people to bring in new money. Thats basically the entire economy at this point. A few people trading huge sums of money back and forth while they buy up real world assests that they then liquidate so they can buy up more assets to liquidate.
>>545965778the slave mentality of whites is off the charts lol
>>545966150>The billionaire earned money by producing batteriesThe billionaire singlehandedly mined the minerals, refined them, manufactured them into batteries, assembeld those batteries into vehicles, shipped those vehicles to stores, then sold them to customers after negotiating the price.Wow, incredible that one person could do all that without any outside help. Guess this theoretical person does deserve to be a theoretical billionaire.
>>545965778Also hopefully the person who invented that battery isnt chinese or else they face a 100% import tarrif because capitalism and the free market can only sustain itself by putting up socialist price barriers that favor inferior domestically produced batteries.
>>545966519>Guess this theoretical person does deserve to be a theoretical billionaire.If he just told other people to do it and profited massively with no expertise or value added why didn't you theoretically do it?
>>545965778a guy hires a team of engineers to develop a battery for his company. they develop a great battery that lowers the cost of electric vehicles. the owner of the company becomes a billionaire due to the labor of other people. he then uses the money to create NGOs to funnel money to his children and the children of politicians and buys politicians for favorable treatment at the expense of the wants and needs of the citizens. money is power, and a person with to much power becomes corrosive to fair governance.
>>545966598Because I don't have pocket as large as him. I'm not even allowed to take "risks".Even most tech mogul which are an anomaly because they weren't rich by birth (but since had well off family so they could afford to work on their garage and go pitch investors that were in their family network, to profit of the work of others).I'm not even mad at most of them, they were good manager. But the amount of money they captures is disproportionate compared to the amount they contributed. Plus, it become detrimental to the society itself as the middle class erode when they dry up everything by catching all the capital in their massive snowball. The market is sucking lifeblood from the economy simply by the way it works and it can mathematically only get worse.
>>545965778see>>545966519This is the reason. Lawyers, safety/quality inspections, capital, manufactoring designers, networking, etc. all too need to be brought in and compensated to figure out the feasibility of the whole operation. There's a case to be made about making the incentives for innovators more enticing. However, even that gets complicated since most innovation in the modern age has moved onto entire teams injected with institutional funding fueled by capital. 78% of all national r&d is done through private businesses who are also reliant on universities to churn these nerds out. It's an entire ecosystem that is built upon multiple group incentives (money being the ultimate widespread motivator to enlist the help of the uninspired yet highly skilled) to nuturing and supporting these nerds. Naturally the ecosystem wants a cut for itself, give compensation to all these other supporting people, and return on investment to sustain and further the ecosystem. Course many of these uninspired niggers like the capitalist ones or technically skilled are thus loyal to said monetary self-interest to the point that they would compromise the advantages of this system to foreigners and subversives to further themselves, ruining the country of which this system lies (even itself). Therefore, it must be curtailed from such excesses by some higher authority like the state in exchange for short-term technical spikes in efficiency. Nationalism is the best guiding spirit for this as it pushes a hiearchy of beneficary preference for people of the country of which this system lies, in both foreign and domestic.
>>545965836America is a shithole. You just hyperfocus on the nice parts
>>545965778yeah, well, like, that's just like, your opinion, manit's when they decide to buy elections and politicians they become a problemplutocracy is the ultimate outcome without some check on extreme wealththe Enron scammers felt they were 'creating value' also
>>545965778Musk's Tesla would've gone bankrupt 10 times if not for electric vehicle subsidies. Innovation my ass.You won't find any billionaires that didn't get that way without market intervention in their favour.
>>545965778Businesses and innovations that help society are what shareholder value should be based around.Not some fake generation of wealth.
>>545965778Governments businesses peopleWhen we quantify in terms of 10s 100s thousands millions billions and trillions. its a measure of fungible resources they have.A person being a billionaire or recieving a billion dollars isnt so much a measure of how "valuble" his product is but rather how inflated the currency is.You maybe a billionaire in rubels,rupees,yen,lyra,drachma,pounds,dollars,pesos,or euros.does anyone have a billion bitcoin yet?
>>5459665191) The producer of batteries needs materials to produce his batteries.2) He pays money to other producers who produce those materials.3) If we talk about, let's say, the mineral producer, the mineral producer owns the mine. He then hires workers to work there and mine those minerals for him. One could talk about the exploitation of workers here, but no exploitation happens here, since the miners only work for the guy because they value the money they receive from him more than the labor they give up, and this valuation is subjective. If the case were otherwise, they wouldn't work there, since nobody is forcing them to do it, and they are doing it consensually. The same thing goes for the mine owner, or the person who sells the minerals,he values the labor more than the money he gives up. So basically, a voluntary, consensual relationship develops between the mineral sellers and the miners, where both sides benefit.4) The same thing goes for the whole process, including the battery manufacturer. The customers also buy from him because they value the battery and its utility more than the money they give up. The whole process is mutually beneficial and consensual, devoid of exploitation.The billionaire doesn't need to singlehandedly mine the minerals, refine them, manufacture the batteries, assemble the cars, and ship them. That's literally the point of division of labor and The workers voluntarily exchange their labor for wages because they value the wages more than the labor they're giving up, while the employer values their labor more than the money he's paying them. The same logic applies throughout the production chain, including the final consumer, who values the vehicle more than the money they spend on it.
>>545965778Elon never invented anything you retarded kraut. Tesla didn't even get rich selling electric cars. They got rich bilking the American public out of billions in "Clean Air" regulatory credits. Its a completely made up market that only exists because democrats are all faggots and Ford is too lazy and inept to make an EV people actually want to buy.
>>545967559Oh boo fucking hoo cry more about it fagbgot you're not the trillionaire he is just what the fuck do you think your whiny little bitch ass is gonna do about it huh? That's right - NOTHING. So shut the fuck up you fucking loser cunt
I like using Elon Musk as an example, but understand what I'm saying doesn't apply strictly to him.Elon Musk makes money through multiple means.1) As a CEO He is paid on the order of $10 million/year. Over the course of his lifetime, this might add up to just shy of $500 million.2) As an inventorHe is paid for his patents, and his innovation. But even the most expensive patents in society are typically only valued around $1 million - $10 million. If he slaved his entire life away for patents, he might make $20 million - $50 million tops. 3) As an investorHe is paid for "getting in first" on the groundfloor of speculative startups. Before the companies go public, he gets insider dealings on the ground floor of these companies. He then networks between government, and media, to pave the path for the technology's future adoption. For this, he acquires assets valued at $1 trillionDo you see the disparity here? Do you see the issue? The problem is, the financial system is not actually encouraging good governance of corporations, or innovation. It is encouraging speculative investment, moving money around, paper shuffling, grifting, schmoozing, acquiring influence, getting in with the right crowd.....etc. That is how ALL the billionaires are doing it.If you call this "value creation" I simply disagree. I don't think Elon created $1 trillion in value, I don't think that's even possible. People are not considering the sheer scale of that number, he could spend $1 million/day since the time Christ walked the earth, and he would still have money left over. Him and his descendants will be wealthy for thousands of years.
>>545965778so let's say Im a kike and invent fractional reserve banking and collect interest from creating money out of thin air it's ok because technically that creates value?
>>545965778yeah, you shouldn't be able to gatekeep that tech for life + 70 years just because you were the first to commercialize it, 20 years max, then that shit should become opensource
>>545968011Loans and banking derivatives contribute to the longeivty of an empire.But the whole thing ends up collapsing when the borrow too much and cant deliver.
>>545968182There is some fuckery going on with speculation, how speculation and assets can make you a trillionaire.On the one hand, free markets only work when everyone behaves as a rational actor, looking out for their own self interest. But when speculation rears its head, you're no longer thinking about self-interest, you're thinking about what the other guy is thinking. And he's thinking about what you're thinking. It becomes a hall of mirrors, that results in runaway degeneracy. Look at the dotcom bubble, people invested in total lunatic companies with zero prospects because of this, minting billionaires who created nothing whatsoever of value. So that's a problem of human nature itself, greed and game theory causes this irrationality. But there's also the financing behind it. The federal reserve's unsustainable monetary system, which blows up asset bubbles. This is the core reason why the 1% is getting so fabulously rich, their assets are exploding in value as the fed pumps liquidity into the market. This debt-based financial system is totally unsustainable and caterwauling off the edge
>>545965994He didn't develop PayPal.He lasted the original engineers of Tesla.Tesla was successful mostly because of gibs.Same with SpaceX. Without gibberment contracts it's not viable.Yes we have our own space and rocket agency why are we gibbing to eNog.Oh his X an X ai debt was rolled into SpaceKek BTWThen SpaceKek IPOedit became part of major securities ETFsand your 401k bought up all his bad Twitter debt.>>545965778We don't live in a meritocracy, OP.You'd know this of you ever worked an honest day of your life and were actually skilled at anything."Rich" people are just good sales people, but at a high level it's not even sales it's just who can afford to be at the country club you're at and says they can put bodies on a contract. - This is not talent, it's legacy nepotism.Same with Ivy League frats.>You're missing the point energy is cheaperYet GDP per capita shrinks every day.....The wealth needs to be distributed to the labor that creates it Yes a usiness owner is entitled to the reward for their risk but when they are buying their 4th yacht and their employees make minimum wage, there is a disconnect.Dan Price made it work. Paid every employee of his $80,000(?) back in 2010(?) dollars?He still never had to worry about money again in his life. zhe could have hoarded more. You might say he was entitled to it....the point being at a certain point money doesn't improve your quality of life much more, so when you're on your fourth yacht maybe it should be going to the daily workers for their quality of life as they keep yours propped up.
>>545966425That's a good one.Based Mike Judge.https://youtu.be/1aVYJ-krSMA
Ok, and if private equity buys all the veterinarian clinics in an area and spikes the prices on every service, is value being created or extracted?
>>545965778My response is that this scenario is too limited in scope. The problem with billionaires is not that someone who invents something important is rewarded -- it's that the economic winners from that invention will be almost exclusively the already-rich; early investors, hedge funds, etc. These people will make extreme amounts of money for doing the work of already having money. Then, they'll use that money to purchase political policies which make them more money, and THOSE will 100% come at the expense of everyone else. They'll hoover up all the government contracts, cut their own taxes, and contribute as little to society as they possibly can. Then, they'll pass everything they own on to their children, pay next to nothing in taxes in the process of doing so, and then those people will make more money for doing the work of already having money. It's a vicious cycle which ends up with something like we have right now: a captured government, an immiserated workforce kept strictly disciplined by lax labor laws and strong manipulation of the labor market, and a shameless elite living in luxury bubbles.
if a person has power over another person that creates a risk of abuseover a long enough timeframe, a risk becomes a certaintymoney = powerjust like we share power through democracy to try to prevent abuse by the government, we should share money to prevent abuse by the richthis logic is so braindead simple to grasp
What if a guy steals minerals and buys the company, pockets public funding, and does not pay the inventor
>>545968706Value is in the fact the idiots running the vet before didnt go out of business and you still have access to a vet instead of burying your cat in the backyard.
>>545966150>the billionaire earned money by producing batteriesWrong. The billionaire stole the excess value from the laborers who produced the batteries.
>>545968794If money is power how do broke people so effectively mug people for their money. Shouldnt money give you the power to protect yourself?
>>545968794Yup. The west is kind of predicated on this idea that you can silo economic and political power -- that the economically powerful can play around in their domain so long as they are prohibited from translating their economic power into political power. The problem is that money is just so fucking insanely strong a motivating factor that it was always inevitable the two domains start melding together. Pete Thiel had it right when he said that democracy and capitalism are incompatible. He just came to the wrong conclusion from it.
>>545965778In reality it's more>We will be on Mars in 10 years.15 years later>We will be on the moon in 10 years. >You can buy a Tesla for $30k now and when you don't use it it will be a taxi making $30k a year>Tesla Semi will be cheaper to run than trains. Insert unlimited Enron Musk promise here
>>545968706thats a monopoly and is wealth extraction. A monopoly on an industry that is government regulated to boot (not just anyone can open a vet clinic). so its not free market capitalism and is just corrupt centralized planning of the corporate and governmental elites (assuming government doesnt punish them for trying it)
>>545968950This is the most inane, trivial point I've seen in a while. Money is the power which creates the society in which that person is broke in the first place.
>>545968944The billionaire is compensated for organizing the system that permits the producers to create value.
>>545969006No fear is that power.
>>545969022He is not “compensated”. He takes all excess profits from ownership. The system is organic, and his effort is hiding from government regulation.He would not notice if his company closed for probably 6 months.
>>545969022If I make you shovel shit in 110 degree heat for 8 hrs until you have shoveled $200 worth of shit do you think it is fair for me to pocket $190 simply for providing the shovel and selling the shit?
>>545969144Billionaires dont make people do anything. Employment is optional
>>545969138>probably
>>545965778Then they sell the car for twice the average yearly salary and pay their employees half as much as they need to live. Fuck spirit-kikes, behead all satans.
>>545969181>Employment is optionalThis is bait you are trolling.
>>545969254Imagine posting on 4chan and not being a NEET. >not gonna make it
>>545969181Chomsky addressed this argument like 50 years ago with the idea of manufactured consent. It's the idea that capital has created a society in which you have a wealth of choices but none of them threaten power. All of the choices you can make either benefit entrenched powers or disproportionately harm you. So yes, employment is technically "optional," but society has been organized such that exercising "your option" results in serious material consequences for you.
>>545969309Chomsky? Damn havnt heard that name since i heard he was on Epstein island.
>>545969309In a world without private ownership who cares about material losses?
Most people simply can't comprehend the marvel of innovation. One day, you're paying top dollar for a complex, inefficient gas-powered car that requires constant maintenance. The next, you're driving an electric car that converts around 90% of its energy into motion, compared to roughly 20% for a conventional gasoline engine, with far fewer moving parts and virtually no routine engine maintenance.Yet, despite this technological leap, some people still believe electric cars will never take over
>>545965778he's correct.that guy would have contributed more than hundreds of thousands of other people combined, and as a consequence, his wealth exceeds theirs.those people are also usually using their wealth to try and replicate that success again, doing something useful with it.the average guy who bitches about him being too rich would just stop doing anything at all and switch over to 24/7 consumption if he had a fraction of that wealth.which is understandable from a personal perspective, but at the same time immediately refutes all moral arguments he might try to make.
>>545969341>>545969365I don't find either of these posts satisfactory responses. Extremely low effort and only superficially even typical.
>>545969454Its all good. You gotta wake up and go to work anyway.
>>545969413>that guy would have contributed more than hundreds of thousands of other people combinedBut he doesn't. He pays less in taxes overall than hundreds of thousands of other people combined. That has the net effect of depriving those hundreds of thousands of people of services which could improve their lives, health, and dignity.
>>545965836well, he specifically said innovators.even with investors I wouldn't take much offense, since they also contributed something by propping up businesses that had a chance to be successful.the only ones I take offense with are those who make their money by betting against a company/country/currency/whatever and then use their wealth to try and make that downfall happen. that is money earned through destructive actions.
>>545965778It's not worth myself having a better life if someone else makes money doing so. I would rather die and suffer eternally in hell than enrich a Jew.
>>545969494>But he doesn't.Yes he does. A new battery technology like that would be a massive step forwards that significantly improves humanity's overall technological progress and capabilities.
>>545969549That's nice, but it's not in and of itself a massive step towards significantly improving humanity's access to healthcare or housing or sustenance, right? Technology needs to serve a purpose. That purpose should be the lessening of human suffering.
>>545968944no see (>>545967769)Also, the money that the billionaire earns comes from organizing production, taking entrepreneurial risks, investing capital, and bearing the cost of waiting for the final product to be sold to consumers
>>545969650Money in the hands of a businessman is always better than money in the hands of a politician.A politician will waste it on retarded shit to buy himself votes with zero regards to the questions if the approach if sustainable or even serves its intended purpose, he just needs it to boost votes for a short period and after that it's whatever for the next 4 years.Germany pays billions in subsidies that have never been evaluated with regards to their efficiency. They pay this year after year, and they have zero data on the question if it achieves anything at all but letting some people idle around while collecting fat paychecks.>but what about muh parasites who need dem bennies?I don't give a shit about those, humanity would be better off if they all die.
>>545969650How can technology releive human suffering when factories contribute to climate change? When AI data centers use all the water and electricity?
>>545969728>I don't give a shit about those, humanity would be better off if they all die.Exactly. You don't give a shit. This is exactly why we need to tax billionaires -- because they don't give a shit, either. They will take as much as they possibly can and if the rest of us can barely afford to live? They don't care. They'll just continue buying politicians and buying policies and buying government contracts until they are prohibited from doing so.
>>545965778he is wrong. we all should just be trying to make our moms and dads proud.
>>545965778how does buying another car make me richer
>>545965778if someone invented a battery that made electric cars twice as cheap, Elon or one of the world's oil tycoons would hire a hit man. Innovations don't happen because of billionaires who want to control the market which is why we don't see car running on water or air even though they have been created.
>>545969662There are fundamentally two types if people. The working class who has to sell their time to make the money they need to survive and the capitalist who makes money simply by owning things.A billionaire doesn't have to lift a finger or think a single thought to accumulate wealth. Their is hardly any risk or work involved. Their is no burden to owning things you just offload the labor onto someone else because you can afford to.
>>545969917>Their TheirThere* There*
>>545965778True, but I still want Johnny Notgoodenough to pay his fucking taxes.
>>545969917Wrong. He has to take lots of financial risks. He can't invest in the production of goods with low demand, or else he'll face losses. He has to do proper forecasting and speculation before investing. There are lots of risks involved,you're just willfully ignoring them.
>>545967644maybe it's your point but at most 21 million bitcoin will ever be minted
>>545969854lel
>>545965778Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, or any of the so call tech billionaires didn't invent any of the technologies that made them rich though. Bill Gates maybe but the rest simply capitalized on existing tech and turned it into an expensive consumer product.
I know many fabulously wealthy people, they bought homes for 25-50K in the 80s and 90s. Dozens of them. Each property has been draining 40% of a young families income for 4 decades, each property is now worth 500K-1mil.
>>545965778Everything that exists has been created by God for humans to aid them in seeking salvation.It's the demons that torment the minds of men, who bends matter so their souls are bent.Think of all the time you spent toilling, and how much of all that time really went to your feeding and your health (your body, a temple to serve God in favor of your spirit) and in sharing genuine happiness with others, and how much went towards making a cabal of the slaves of the matter bend even more of it, for the worship of even more of it.Ask yourself: was that cheaper transportation even needed in the first place? How much of your productivity, and how many years of your life fed you and your family, or contributed to easing suffering and healing the ill, as opposed to building up more of the temples of steel and masonry of the servants of bent matter and debauchery?
>>545966150The Soviet Union was the first nation to send a man into space. You don't need billionaires for technological and societal advancement.
>>545965806So you've been eating poop
HE DOES HAVE A GOOD POINTHE'S RIGHT YOU KNOWNOW THAT THE DUST HAS SETTLEDSAY SOMETHING NICEPOWERFULREALLY MAKES YOU THINKWHAT ARE THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONSPUBLIC TRANSPORTATIONKNEELPOLITICALLY SPEAKINGAPOLOGIZEBASED OR CRINGELET ME GUESS YOU NEED MOREHOW DO YOU RESPOND WITHOUT SOUNDING MADWHAT DID HE MEAN BY THISWHY DO AMERICANSWHO WAS IN THE WRONGDAILY REMINDERWELL /POL/YOUR RESPONSEIT'S OVERPOL CAN'T REFUTE THISTHIS IS THE POST THAT KILLED /POL/POL BTFOTHOUGHTS?
>>545966301how much damage have fossil fuels caused in comparison>ummm this thing didn't just pop into existence from puppy farts so it's le bad!!!what is the alternative, oh it's 1000 times worse? okay then
>>545965778ELON FOR PRESIDENT 2028
>>545965778That's antisemitic becareful Germanon
>>545965778>Someone invents battery that sucks you off>Makes a million dollars>Takes those millions to pump the stock market, move money around to other corporations, and pay off politicians to ensure he can make more money in the future>Makes more money over time than he could ever reasonably spend while creating harsh economic conditions for everyone who isn't in on the take>Buys a social media company to tell everyone how rich and based he is and that the state of the world is because you're lazy and broke >Also hires people from other countries to run and work at his businesses"The rich" aren't all just smol beans that want to be left alone. Many use their capital to make the economy worse for production and job creation, and increase the value of speculative assets.
>>545965778When this process happens through a central bank you inflate the currency by a billion dollars because they frivolously squander the money in get quick rich schemes like derivatives and subprime refinancing, unlike if you got the initial investment from many smaller responsible banks.
>>545965778>someone invents a battery twice as cheapthey then sell a cheaper inferior product at an inflated priceyou've gained more expensive worse transportation while the ''inventor'' saves billions in production costs
The person who invents the car battery usually doesn't become a billionaire, the company they work for makes a billion dollars and the wagie engineer inventor gets laid off for alleging his copyright was stolen by Jewcorp and the courts side with Jewcorp because they can afford better lawyers.
>>545965778Damn, he sat in an open grass field in nothing but a loincloth he fashioned out of leaves himself and invented that battery from rocks, berries, and branches he found around him? Oh, he invented it on top of the foundations built by billions of others? As I thought, now pay your share mr inventor man.
>>545969144>>545969144>if I make youYou're entire argument fails before you even typed all of it. No one is making anyone do anything and of someone did want to shovel shit for 8 hours a day but the bosses kept 95% of their agreed upon wage, that's illegal and the employees don't have to continue doing it. You people's arguments are always based on complete fantasies.
