was democracy a mistake? in a just civilization, only the wise and the just are allowed to have power and influence. do you agree?
>>546150123and how do you decide who is wise?
Are you retarded? Obviously, and stuck in the last century. The alternative to democracy is not some sovereign rule. Sovereigns need as other fake l33ts a consensus fabrication vehicle that legitimates their rule. Do you really think journalwhores and algorithms in a highly fractured epistemic environment would be able to fabricate such a consensus? No of course not. Go jerk off to granny porn geezer. Your world no longer exists
>>546150183through sound and sober judgment
>>546150226Ahahaha You are such a stuck in the last century retard
>>546150123In a just civilization, the law reigns supreme and no one is above it. Not a king, not a dictator, not a group of aristocrats.
>>546150289>Immaterial normsSame as material leaders, there needs to be a consensus fabricated on what is considered a "just" norm. Nigger the engine is broken; consensus fabrication on anything 404d
>>546150226And who gets to decide that, and for what reason should normal folks decide that the small group of people who will decide this won't choose a tyrant to further their goals? And even if they chose a good ruler, how will he be removed if he turns into a tyrannical despot without democratic institutions?
>>546150244wisdom and justice/fairness are eternal and timeless virtues, i'm sorry that your limited worldview is preventing you from seeing that.
>>546150183only let some people vote
>>546150357someone who is free from selfish pursuits and ambitions, someone who isn't insecure or fearful of death for example.
>>546150358No they are not. They are words, labels that are time and space dependent, you retarded platonist. Maybe go to the middle east and ask if its unjust to rape a goat, which I guess you do, they don't
>>546150346Agreed-upon norms are literally the basis of any society.
>>546150484Yes, and what happens if their is no agreed on norm? When the epistemic environment is so fractured and tribalistic that no vehicle of consensus fabrication exists? Yeah, congratulations, libtard left got what it asked for, the dead of civilization
>>546150572Every different culture has different norms. This is like a "fish not seeing water" scenario.
>>546150123That leather armor must have been sweltering
>>546150474injustice exist because not everyone believes in justice. what is your point? you don't believe in justice because you know that it disapproves of you or your lifestyle and beliefs. if you were innocent, you would have love for justice.
>>546150644Nigger, newsflash, if in a certain territory the homogenity of culture went full on heterogeneous there is no common culture. Maybe put away your journalwhore propaganda and academic jerk offs and go in the pit of communication and look at cluster fuck you bubble head minority is closing its eyes from
>>546150663What is considered justice depends on the individual, not you. Words are just labels without substance, not even content
>>546150451Anon, obviously these are good people, and they should get to decide that. However, this is not really possible in the real world. There are things that are ideal, and they may or may not be applicable in the real world. it would be a nice thing to make a wise, knowledgeable person with virtue the ruler. However, in real life, it's hard, if not impossible, to decide who should be this person, how this person should be chosen, and what should be done with him if he doesn't rule properly or becomes a tyrant. In my opinion, modern representative democracy solves a lot of problems here.Few people possess the capability of ruling others, since not all people have the same knowledge and wisdom, and those few capable people should rule over the rest. But how do we know who these few capable people are, and how do we stop them if they get corrupted by their power, or if the rulers cannot rule properly? Furthermore, how do we restrain their power from overreaching into the lives of citizens? That is where elections and the constitution come in. It is a good thing that citizens do not get to vote on everything, or else things would get messed up. It seems like a near-perfect mix of elitism and egalitarianism, no other system seems to come close to this
>>546150756You're insufferable. And yes, even in a place like the USA there is a common culture and common values compared to everywhere else in the world.
>>546150123A Christian theocracy is the only just form of government.
>>546150812
>>546150804May I ask you, is the entire US population in the room with you now?
>>546150794>What is considered justice depends on the individual, not you. Words are just labels without substance, not even content>justice is subjectivethen why do you have a problem with my definition and standard of what is just and fair?
>>546150797>if something is done right >its almost like you did nothing at allJust be a good person, strive for everyone to do the same. Plant a tree for the future, build connections and spread happiness and knowledge. Simple things really. Dont worry about the big, the small matters aswell.
>>546150848Yes.
>>546150877Because you totalitarian authoritarian leftard weaklings with no violence projection ability have the chutzpah to try to tell me what to believe in, and expect me to submit to YOUR beliefs. And I tell you, like anybody that doesn't agree with you to go piund sand, fuck yourself.Are you willing to kill and die for your norms, if the answer is no, just shut the fuck up
>>546150936Can you post a picture
>>546150997according to you, and i respect that. can you do the same?
>>546150123Republics can only work with a slave class. Actually there's zero differences between a republic and a plutocracy.
>>546151014
>>546150123doesn't work with too many dense negros, it's that simple. All you get is what you get today but perpetually growing until that's all there will ever be. At some point someone is going to question if the whole world has gone collectively insane I think. Maybe they'll make a song but their "democracy" will probably make it illegal.
>>546151069No. I straight out tell you I don't respect nor consider your norms, nor your individual assigned meaning to words, and yes I am willing to kill and die for you to stop existing
>>546150226Half of roman emperors were murdered, imagine the insurance costs for the position
>>546151165if you kill your enemies, they win, in my opinion. you just lost from my point of view.
>>546151165>WHEN I WAS A YOUNG LARPER
>>546151222Castro? Post blackface picture you retard
>>546150123>bla-blah-blah-i discovered plato go back to plebbit
>>546151278blackface? what are you on about, loser?
>>546150183You obviously hire a consulting firm. And then use the AI!
>>546150385So you want castes? Second-class citizens and shiet? What's next, slavery!?
>>546151432Generative models are not able to fabricate consensus, by design. Each prompt spits out a different sequence of tokens. Whoever thought "AI" would be an consensus fabrication vehicle is more retarded then those that thought journalwhores are
>>546150647Imaging getting it all nice and wet from sweat and then it dries out in the heat of sun.
>>546151563Nice hallucinations you got there!Do another.
>>546150183Figure out what they vote for and improve their education accordingly
>>546150794>Words are just labels without substance, not even contentWhat, all nouns are substantives, having a firm basis in reality, we had three civil wars with dead people over language, that's how seriously we take it.
>>546151622He's right, you can't force a universalist approach while maintaining fairness, someone will get the short end of the stick, chimp out and now you are back to square one. And if you follow a particularist approach then you wont fabricate consensus.All that isn't a new problem, it's been a central dilemma in ethics, politics, law and all social frameworks pretty much since forever.Go ahead and tell us a that "all religions are equal" for example just for the sake of cohesion, are you ready for the shitstorm?
>>546152119Are you also retarded or samefagging?
>>546152178Stop deflecting, copy paste my post in your favourite AI and post the response.
>>546152119>consensusOnly women, faggots and sheeps need that
>>546152280You are a retard. Everything you say is retarded. Retarded anything has zero value and is not worth any investigation. Right now you are providing cheap entertainment value, that's it.
>>546152316How do you sheep give you consensus?
Not just a mistake, it's universally evil because it's dishonest. Arguably more tyrannical than a monarchy. The people aren't getting what they want anywhere in the world. They're fed a comforting lie about having a voice when it's all just bureaucratic oligarchies without a good leader at the top.
>>546151723I am not saying that there aren't those that truly believe in their individual meaning of words. But when it comes down, its about who has the bigger stick and kills the other who believe a word has another meaning. The 20th century was just a particular outlier because mass-behavioralism and gate kept passive media managed to fuck BoomerX brains through Gramscian methodology, since 90% of the world population have access to a distributed communication network as producer, distributor and consumer, the Gramscian methodology stoped working and "we" are back to who has the bigger stick and is willing to use it and potentially die over the meaning of labels
>>546152334Fine i am retarded, consult the AI then.
>>546150123Women voting was the mistake
>>546152404Oh yeah sure, now is see what you mean, although such coercive, fear-based, systems have a serious Achilles heel, they succumb to delusion and lose touch with reality because people tell authorities what they want to hear out of fear. And when all the organic civic life is suppressed the system starts rotting from within, it just succumbs to corruption, disillusionment, apathy and cynicism. But to tie it with the OP's argument so we don't digress, democracy wasn't meant to have this structure and scale, it would be called hubris by its conceivers, the "world population" is irrelevant to it from an administration standpoint as it's inherently polycentric and decentralised, with that "we" restricted to the demos, that is local communities and families. So now that the world population has access to a distributed communication network as you said, and we are dealing with one gigantic mess pretty much, things like the cultivation of virtues take zero priority compared to just administrating it for the purpose of keeping it from imploding, what are experiencing is a series of crisis managements pretty much.
>>546150123Look at how many trolls already in this thread. This is a real political question in a catalog of e-celeb bullshit. You can't have a discussion on /pol/ without people like this shitting things up. This is a practical reflection of democracy. A democracy is only as good as the people within. If your voters are honorable people, you'll get an honorable government. If your people are retards then you'll get a retarded government. Expect modern governments to become increasingly retarded.
>>546150123Democracy has never existed.
>>546150183What ever this flag is, is right. The conundrum is that it's impossible to decide what is just because someone always gets fucked over.
>>546153267Yes of course, a system that only can ensure its brittle stability through coercion because there is no homogeneous culture that is stabilized on the atomic scale of families and local communities, is practically a failed state, as in a failed status quo. And yes that ties directly into the current state of administering crisis wearing the costume of legitimated governance, with the profiting individuals in the respective positions rationally trying to save their grift; neither time nor the ability to propagate common virtues.For now it is still somehow working, because the majority vooting blog is a demographic group that got successfully brainwashed into "trusting the expert", believing the man in the idiot box and self regulate accordingly. But as soon as that demographic group is no longer the majority and the demographic group that cannot be linguistically manipulated into self regulation according to top down norms, with no bottom up common language existing, the transition from a failing state into a failed state happens, with all its consequences that can among others be observed on the African continent. Formally the governance bodies still exist, informally they have power but in reality its pure tribalistic violent negotiations between individuals and small tribes on the local, regional and national scale
>>546150123Thats racist and sexist.
>>546153919And extremely anti-semitic!
>>546153878>>546153267Are these LLMs samefagging, or, rather, some fag samefagging a pair of agents?What's this, socratic dialogues performed by a chatbot?
>>546150123*Only the corrupt and nepotistic are allowed to have power and influenceYou delusional fuci
>>546154306No man that's the only thing we are good at, you pay our denbts while we have endless socratic dialogues at the coffeeshop with friends over the futility of doing anything else, got any better ideas?
>>546154817Thanks for the confirmation.
>>546151510Not second-class citizens per se, if you're not a white man then you have no business participating in public life in white countries. Deport all nonwhite and women go back to being property as they should always have remained, those two changes would fix any white country overnight
>>546150123Democracy is the best system of government ever devised by man. What we have are republics and they were indeed a mistake.Sortition > elections.
>>546154897But you aren't white...
>>546150123Democracy is shit. It is rule by the majority... mob rule.Rule by the wise and just? "Philosopher king" bullshit by Plato. It doesn't work.IMO history has shown us how things work. 1 Might is right. The greater force always wins. Period. 2 Control the minds of the masses and you control them. Religion. Education. Media. 3 Wealth can buy the other two.
>>546150123And how do you deal with a little Nero?
>>5461559712. Is out. With 2. out, 3. is out. Only 1. remains
>>546150123democracy was a mistake at first and a judeo masonic global coup d'état in the next round.Kikes want the universal republic since the dawn of time.
>>546155972Nero did nothing wrong. The vast majority of the bad shit recorded about Nero was propaganda from the people who overthrew him. Then the christians added more to expand their fairy tale. There is no evidence of christians being in Rome during Nero's reign. Christianity is post temple judaism. This is (((christian))) kvetching because Nero sent Vespasian to crush the jewish rebellion and the temple was sacked in the process.
>>546156240That is why 1 is #1. However, propaganda #2 will get the masses to take up arms for you. #3 pays to run the presses, tv and radio, and internet propaganda... and pay goons to assassinate your detractors. two bullets in the back if the head is suicide.
>>5461565742. doesn't exist anymore stuck in the 20th boomer mind. Mass behavioralism requires the ability of mass consensus fabrication, which requires gatekept passive centralized media. The dominant medium is by design active and distributed
>>546156396Interesting
>>546156700Which makes 3. into 2. a deterministic loss, current best example, 100s of millions that got invested into a multi month long advertising campaign around some files, which had no effect and died the moment the funding stopped
>>546150123There Is no justice without democracy, authoritarians are never fair
>>546150123>these people have fancy clothes so thst were wise and justDemocracy has been better at producing wise rulers seeing as how they win every war
>>546150123Yes, read Mein Kamp's chapter on it. The short version is that democracy annihilates personal responsibility of the rulers, enforces a decaying status quo because every great man will be outvoted by an assembly of ignoramuses, the people are not interested in and don't understand shit about politics and will always be easily manipulated by the financial elites who control the media.In relation to this, you should also read the chapter on propaganda, short version again is that it's extremely effective, and you should only use intellectual arguments with a minority of people, the overwhelming majority can only be convinced by propaganda, short emotional non-nuanced messages.
>>546150123in a civilization it doesn't matter because people can agree. It doesn't matter if every person submits their opinion or has a vote. Civilized people can get along with one another. One person should be able to represent the will of the people just the same as if every person had expressed their opinion through the political system.
>>546150123>a just civilizationThis is a temporary and fragile set of circumstances.
>>546150123>Trump is Team Barabbas.I'm gonna start using that.
>>546154918Democracy doesn't work because people like you can vote.>>546155971>>546156240agreed. but we're talking about the ideal form of government here.A lot of low IQ people fail to make the distinction between discussions of ideal scenarios, and that of reality.>>546157003Winning wars depends on strategy and tactics, ultimately independent of any political system>>546157658this. true freedom is exercised through the collective whole.
>>546159743>this. true freedom is exercised through the collective whole.No shared language, norms, no ability to fabricate consensus, no collective. Game over for "civilization"Btw>Collective wholeDoes not exist
>>546150123>was democracy a mistake?Yes. geniuses like bill gates and elon musk should rule the world
>>546150123Anons I ask theeJesusOr barabas??What say you...>TKD TKD TKD
>>546157597So Hitler's solution was to make himself personally responsible for everything, and then when everything went to shit he blamed literally everyone else lol
>>546163019Wrong, but you're arguing in bad faith already
>>546150123The Greeks who invented full on democracy did so as a joke\thought experiment and immediately made comedy plays about how retarded any society actually doing democracy would have to be...
>>546163052How is that wrong? His country got utterly annihilated under his watch, and instead of taking responsibility he whined about how it was the Jews' fault. And then he fucking shot himself.
>>546163052>>546163163but I know Hitler's your daddy figure that you literally worship so I know you'd never in a million years be able to be objective about this schizo lol
