Redpill me on the Mouse Utopia Experiment, /pol/
Overpopulation leads to lowered testosterone in mammals, because it reduces aggression. This leads to androgyny and collapsing birth rates. It's why China and India are the way they are.
>India
We are nearing the end stages, enjoy it. Men dropping out on mass replicates the beautiful ones.
All life is struggle. Take struggle away and you only have death.
>>546229738You're living in it
>>546229738Turned hard working mice into useless neets on Universal Basic Income. They became faggots, perverts and killed themselves. It was called "Behavioral Collapse".
>>546229857China too, and most of the rest of East Asia and Indonesia. Just look at the difference between skinnyfat indos in java vs abo stone age chads with gourds over their cocks in new guinea, or mongol chads on the steppe and han betas on the yellow river.
>>546229738The mouse utopia was called the Universe 25 Experiment. It didn't happen in universes 1-24 and it also failed to replicate.In other words, it was bullshit and junk science. They just crowded and tortured the rats one time until they cracked. It failed to replicate, so they may have reported lies about the conditions.You really should just ask AI questions like this.
>>546229738It’s never been replicated. I think it’s fake and gay.
>>546229929No bro, if you take strugge away you have heaven with is infinitely boring, like a video game with no challenge or difficulty. Eternal souls choose mortal incarnation to escape this bordem through struggle and suffering.
>>546229738>mouse utopiaThere was nothing "utopian" about it, aside from abundant food. The mice were trapped in an overpopulated metal box with no privacy and nothing to do for entertainment.It was essentially a large, mixed-gender prison with no guards, and things went about as well as you'd expect that premise to turn out.
>>546230058Please link to information supporting your claim.
>>546229738it proved if there isn't big enough house for your family you don't get one even with free foodafter this (((they))) started to make more studio apartments and hoard apartments and space to themselves
>>546229738Turns out it kinda sucked and all the mice died.
>>546230254Yeah just ignore the past several thousand years where large families lived in one room cabins.
>>546229738most people ignore the flaws in the structure of the experiment and in the analysis. they just like to say it proves humans suck. which it doesn't. it's more legitimate than the monkey ladder one, which literally never happened. basically all of these animal anthro behaviorism experiments are fundamentally flawed, unable to be reproduced, poorly analyzed, but they make midwits happy because they seem profound and conclusive. koko the gorilla is another but in the opposite vein. humans are humans, study history if you want to understand human behavior. history is also a terrible predictor, there are no studies or fields that are good at predicting things.
>>546230064the did the same thing with an endangered deer species before the mouse uptopia.the deer were being hunted, eaten by wolves etc.. so they took them all and plopped them on top of a mesa with all food and no predators. they all stopped reproducing and died
>>546229738You are living in it right now.
>>546229999checked & due respectconcise, astute, well expressed. decent post, anon.
>>546229738The most critical parts of behavior are passed down through experience not genes, once that chain is broken there is no generic contingency plan. It's fucked and we're finished.
>>546229738Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cageDespite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cageSomeone will say, "What is lost can never be saved"Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage
>>546231632
Ok you want the redpill? You got it.The truth is he ran this experient a dozen times, this was the only time the population actually died out, so it's the only one that gets covered. In this one magnets were surgically implanted in all the mice, maybe that had something to do with it. Regardless there wasn't a proper attempt to isolate variables.The effects described in the experiment (the rats dumbing down and becoming violent) seems to he characteristic of r-selected breeding, which this experiment would certainly produce. The ocial behavior such as gnawing tails is probably a territorial instinct since overcrowding became a problem.
>>546229738Dude tortured some mice and pretended it relates to human society somehow
>>546229738It’s just tons of mice in extremely tight space. Like we would all live in megacities like pic related
Reminder that at least one of John B. Calhoun's Mouse Utopia experiments were funded by the Rockefeller Foundation.John Calhoun’s “Population Density and The Mouse Utopia" (1962) Funded by The Rockefeller Foundationhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4raY05CZe8
>>546232441>was
>>546231976Can you link to information supporting what you just said?
>>546229738Okay, there is this place called Mouseville in Florida. It's a big tourist attraction. They have a tent and there is a mouse city made out of boxes and toilet paper rolls. There's mice that swing on trapeze, mice that roll barrels, mice that stack coins. Pretty cool.
>>546232078Yeah you'd think so.It's very weird that people will base their entire conception of humanity around this when there's so little evidence.
>>546229738How physicists, chemists, biologists, and engineers run experiments>Vary one property while holding all others constant>Compare the resulting measurements of a dependent property to a control group or unmodified system.>If the underlying data suggests a correlation, try to model the dependence on that property.>Methodically test and refine the model.>Repeat, varying the next property.How sociologists run experiments.>Vary all of the property randomly with out any rhyme, reason, or control until you randomly roll up a sensationalist result to publish.
>>546231976>In this one magnets were surgically implanted in all the miceWould you say 5G/6G is somewhat similar with humans?
>>546232735Mr. Jingles!
>>546232735Dah soun' mad'aup... buh aye b'lieve it f'somme raison.
We're not mice. We can talk about the problem and leave the mouse utopia. The Founding Fathers fled an equivalent situation, that situation came to them again, so they shot the jewish faggots trying to turn the world into a gulag.
>>546229738after a certain period of time, the best mice started using 4chan
>>546229838the aggression in the current state of politicsif anything aggression is raising regardlessand I know who my enemies aretick tockticktockyour time is up
>>546229738cia funded op to discredit the new deal and the welfare stateno one has been able to reproduce the resultsthis is also why behavioral psychology was predominant in america while the rest of the world adopted cognitive psychology; because the dod and cia would only fund behaviorists (to develop torture techniques). the torture stuff is secret, so they would use bullshit studies like this to justify the funding, 90% of behavioral studies are literally fake, it's a facade, like money laundering but for research grants
>>546230068Eternal souls with a brain would just suicide or sleep forever
>>546229738I studied it thoroughly The underlying cause is interesting... basically it seems as though there is indeed a "cultural component to a species instincts"This is the EXPRESSION OF MATING...CHILD NURTURING within a species mammalian of course...But as the standard behavior deviated more and more per generation due to the altered environmental conditions (this would be analogous to multi generational city dwellers living in excess)... They instinctual behavior for survival was no longer their...Purpose itself was tainted for these mice... They'd groom themselves exclusively... Get violent...stop looking after their young...He called it a behavior sink not a bad term. It's more like role and identity destruction... offspring that cannot mimick survival skills from their parents...like humans learning that milk and steak comes from the shops
>>546230156This, rats need enrichment and stuff to play with
>>546233188>>Vary all of the property randomly with out any rhyme, reason, or control until you randomly roll up a sensationalist result to publish.yup>stress levels weren't even properly measured>4 pairs of mice, no new population added>hygiene of the enclosure broke down as the population peaked because the sociologist fucks were too lazy (so much for utopia kek)>mouse biologists know that stressed mice just move/migrate, which these mice obviously couldn't>fertility rates already wildly varied already early in the experimentTLDR: mouse utopia? more like mouse dystopia
>>546229838It doesn't reduce testosterone lol what it does though is add more social mechanisms that would prevent certain men from doing what male mammals typically do at the top of the pecking order, which is killing each other over pussy (and in the case of humans, natural resources and whatever else) - humans long ago decided that nature is essentially a dead end. Any creature living in full accordance to natural law is essentially a dead end in an endless, meaningless cycle. All the rat Utopia proves is that the cycle can be broken, and thank god for that.
>>546234127>the rat utopia provesit didn't prove shit
>>546233947It's the same shit with all the great sensationalist psychology/sociology studies.Zimbardo's 'prison experiment' at Stanford? Documentation later found that Zimbardo and his team had actively selected the most aggressive participants to play the 'guards' and actively coached them during the experiment to promote abusive and authoritarian behavior.Milgram's 'obedience experiment'? They ran over 20 variations of it with 800+ participants, and in all but one trial, the participants either refused to comply with pressing the button, or admitted to having figured out early in the experiment that it was a tape, yet they only reported the results of one, 40-person trial.Sherif's 'tribalism experiment'? Documents later revealed the researchers had to actively fabricate provocations or stage fake raids by one camp of boys against the other to get them to develop hostilities towards one another. In an identical experiment run the year before, the two divides groups cooperated, and when they caught on to the researchers' attempts to instigate hostilities they actually rebelled and started fucking with the researchers.Hawthorne's 'productivity experiment'? Being surveilled actually had no impact on productivity; the reports left out the dozen other variables that were being changed between groups including changing shift hours, wages, and other incentives.Even calling psychology and sociology "soft" science is an insult.
prescient
>>546233657Are the mice in the thread with us now, anon?
>>546229738too many peoplebillions must dieespecially chinks poopjeets and sand monkeys and meme flag faggots like op
>>546229738No, do it yourself lazy bitch.
the utopia experiment assumes there is no progress
>>546229738Lie. Nobody managed to repeat it. Unbelievably poor documentation and selection of test specimen. Done by a crackpot. Funded by the Club of Rome as an "intellectual" background for their overpopulation scare.Kys.
>>546233900Only certain mice would develop the grooming behavior. They were called the beautiful ones because they didn't try to mate or fight or do anything other than groom themselves. As a result they never developed battle scars like the other mice - thus 'beautiful ones'People like to refer to this experiment without really understanding what actually happened or why.Calhoun himself went on to develop other experiments that didn't result in total population collapse and which helped inform prison design and policy
>>546229738>>546229838>>546229857>>546229913>>546229929>>546229933>>546229955>>546229999>>546230058>>546230064calhoun was a fraud. that is the redpill. he left almost no published works, a few magazine articles basically, and no hard data. his multiple mouse utopia experiments started with usually only 4 pairs of already inbred lab mice. the populations were never tested for disease or genetic mutation. no other reputable researcher has ever been able to duplicate his findings. the populations reach equilibrium in every case using genetically robust starting pairs in greater numbers. the jews latch onto his bs and gave him media airtime because it fits into their malthusian narrative they want to feed western white populations to get them to stop breeding. think onions green. he was eventually defunded in the mid 80s because he never produced anything but some headlines and a few articles. its pushed here breathlessly by midwits or jews as a distraction. its nonsense. calhoun at best created some evidence for spiteful mutants but its anecdotal with no hard data or notes or anything else. https://gwern.net/mouse-utopiahttps://gwern.net/mouse-utopia
>>546230156>>546233944One of the more fascinating findings was that at some point after however many generations, certain mice developed the completely spontaneous behavior of rolling up poop into big balls and removing it in one big mass as opposed to removing single turds at a time. They basically developed a completely novel behavior for no apparent reason but it resulted in higher efficiency in terms of cleanup. This eventually led to better setups where the mice had meaningful stimulation and population collapse did not occur in those enriched environments
>>546229738Good times create weak mice
>>546229738It's not really a utopia when it's just thousands of rats stuck in a box full of shit.
>>546236849the mouse utopia assume everyone is rich life is nothing like that experiment if I stop working I'm going right in the streets and I'm going to die at best probably in jail because I won't pay schlomo usury anymore did the mouse utopia had taxes? were the mouse forced to pay 60% of their food for their rent?
>>546239343>Calhoun himself went on to develop other experiments that didn't result in total population collapse and which helped inform prison design and policyno he did not. his published works are paltry and useless for 'prison design'. >>546239772starting with 4 pairs of inbred lab mice, yes after a few generations there will be a variety of abnormal behaviors. all that proves is that dysgenic inbred animals produce dysgenic inbred offspring that exhibit abnormal dysgenic behaviors. you are talking out your ass btw.
the entirety of the fraud mouse utopia researchers published works. could read it in a weekend. https://johnbcalhoun.com/papers/
>>546239955There were definitely a lot of problems with the way he performed his setup and the conclusions and extrapolations he derived from it. More problematic IMO is the way his flawed experiment is used and cited by eugenic chuds to 'prove' that social welfare systems are going to result in inevitable population collapse. One of the drivers behind his research was to come up with better ways to organize animals and by extension humans in high density settings. It wasn't about proving that welfare queens are going to cause human extinction even though that's the conclusion most people seem to get out of it
>>546240298go read that gwern qrd and come back. he was doing nothing of the sort. you are talking out your ass. do you want me to start quoting his abstracts? he accomplished nothing with his work but some headlines and distracting people that want to think they are smart and know something fundamental about society. here is what he taught us. inbreed a tiny population enough and it may crash. wow brilliant.
>>546229738mice release stress hormones in their piss
>>546240399>inbreed a tiny population enough and it may crash. wow brilliant.kek that's a better explanation than the whole (((study))) conclusion it's entertainment science
>>546229738the experiment was flawed, they forcefully altered the results to met a specific end, literally propaganda.
>>546240399..I think we're saying the same thing anon. His work was not really scientific in its approach and yet people keep citing this particular experiment as if it reveals some deep fundamental truth about humanity. It doesn't even really reveal a deep fundamental truth about mice
i bring receipts to these bullshit calhoun threads. there are always at least one or two elder wizard types spouting the great learned lessons from mouse utopia when it was an anecdote filled fraud for grant money. everything these people bring to the conversation is hearsay and speculation, something they read in another bs calhoun thread. go read his works. its tiny. it taught society nothing. it gave some jew editors a few articles. this thread is fucked. this thread will just help kill the mouse utopia myth at this point. i bet the usual suspects stop bumping it and it disappears soon.
>>546240597weird, you seemed to be going on and on about what a visionary he was a little bit ago. prison design or something lol. now let me guess you suddenly want to become an expert on mouse research and debate. always one or two of those, lets spend the night critiquing kessler vs calhoun. no thanks. ive done what i came here to do.
It was a study done for the elites to learn how to permanently subjugate a population by demoralizing the males to the upmost before they literally claw each other alive or simply become so apathetic they die slowly but still maintain a sense of order.This is what the world is going through now with majority of men being virgins and declining birthrates.
>>546229738JD Unwin is an okay read though a little tedious.
>>546239770This. He was a charlatan.
>>546240760Never said visionary just that a motivation behind his work was finding better ways to organize animals in high density settings and prisons were one of the settings he hoped to improve. I was replying to an anon that was making the same generalizations about his research. The instincts disappear and they only groom themselves and fight and stop reproducting. None of what he was saying was actually what is presented in the behavioral sink article.But glad you accomplished what you came here to doBye felicia!
>>546240507Lab rats choose cocaine over food until dead.There have been thousands of experiments but looks maxxing was predicated by one of them. Some rats found their way to the top of the utopia cage and groomed themselves all day shitting on the rest of the colony. No respect in overcrowded situations.
>>546229738>Redpill me on the Mouse Utopia Experiment, /pol/experiment was flawed the enclosure was too small and the mice realized they were confinedwhat no freedom does to a motherfucker
>>546235091>Even calling psychology and sociology "soft" science is an insult.The real redpill. Even if a psychology or sociology paper agrees with your biases this is the only truth that matters.
>>546241410the demographic the more resembling the utopia would be the Jewish nepo babies one of the most if not the most inbred race on the planet with nothing to worry about but to eat survival instinct extinguished by their lack of direct suffering they exhibit some part of the experiment not so strangely
>>546229933/bread
>>546229838So it rightoid bullshit.
I like to think about it as evidence of what can happen in terms of social decay, but not necessarily absolute and what always happens. Which is why it's been difficult to replicate. Honestly I think it says less about over abundance or population density and more about the power process. When animals don't have to fight to survive we put more effort to find validation and purpose via socialisation, status and sexual pursuits. Which is observably true. Which adds intensity and complexity to things like social interactions and mating. Which is what clearly happened with universe 25.
>>546229738>>546229838Universe 25 was real. Population peaked then died out with social collapse, neglected young, and males that just groomed and checked out (“beautiful ones”). Calhoun never measured testosterone or documented androgyny.China’s fertility is the one-child policy and its hangover. India’s is development and education, not density turning everyone low-T. Closed mouse box with no exit isn’t a national demographic model.
