BILLIONS of LIVING and CONSCIOUS 1 DAY OLD CHICKS are KILLED put on conveyor belts leading to BLENDERS every single year.Millions of male chicks who can’t lay eggs and are not meat breed chickens are killed every year this way in countries like United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, etcIf an animal is living a mostly bad life, suffering massively in a factory farm and experiencing little wellbeing then it’s wrong to breed them into existence.If an animal is living a mostly good life, perhaps on a pasture then it’s wrong to cut their mostly good life short by executing them when they’re a healthy teenager.Why take a utilitarian / hedonistic view of “non humans” but take an inalienable rights view towards “humans” ?An individual consumer choosing to purchase or boycott animal products is personally responsible for extra chicks being killed or spared. If you are not vegan you are personally causing this to happen to more animals here’s proofhttps://philarchive.org/rec/MCMAIOhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brKhhZlUoOc (Only first few minutes of this video are relevant)https://benthams.substack.com/p/the-causal-inefficacy-objection-ishttps://wonderandaporia.substack.com/p/being-vegan-makes-a-differencehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ABKAbFUnNwUAnd the comments and back and forth of this for any objections you may have to the efficacy of individual boycott of real meat which have already been debunked https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/1otuhqv/individual_boycott_of_meat_does_matter/
>>546273501
>>546273501That's LITERALLY me.
>>546273634Ukrainian?
>>546273501I know how chicken nuggets are made, op. Am I supposed to care?
The females are worse off https://welfarefootprint.org/books/eggshttps://welfarefootprint.org/books/eggsWhat’s the most painful thing that ever happened to you? Seriously take a moment and contemplate it, try, in as much detail as you can, to remember what it was like. Maybe, for a few of you it was childbirth, an experience which, when it takes place without anesthesia, is temporarily completely debilitating. Nothing other than the pain occupies the mind of the sufferer.Perhaps it was getting a tattoo. Someone on Quora summarized the pain of getting a tattoo in the following way:>They hurt.>There are between one and 20 needles being poked through your skin hundreds of thousands of time in a single session. The number of needles will determine the type and intensity of pain. So expect it. The real question is how much will it hurt.I’ve been quite lucky and never experienced any particularly severe pain. I can remember quite a few times I’ve had pretty intense pain, barely eating for two days, having a doctor press down on my infected finger until it popped when I was 8, having a very severe stomach ache, falling out of a treehouse (though remaining in the tree) and banging my chin on the side of it, but nothing has been that bad. I’d guess the worst experience of my life is a lot less painful than a wrist tattoo.The most painful experience that most of us have ever had is classified as disabling pain. This is the sort of pain that’s bad enough that during it you can’t enjoy doing anything else, you can’t, for instance, enjoy a game of chess while giving birth, and that makes it impossible to focus on anything other than the pain. Examples of this kind of pain include a very painful fall, breaking a bone, burning yourself, giving birth, severe dog bites, getting a tattoo, kidney stones, and hemorrhoids.
>>546273805Jews in nyc are killing turkeys now too. A Goy on the ground is making a documentary about it. Here’s some trailers for it with sound https://youtube.com/shorts/uXt7vKNrheM https://youtube.com/shorts/lI-ucGrxs3EWhile we often forget about these later, when they’re happening, they feel like the most significant thing in the world. They’re extremely bad, if you offered me $1,000 to get severely bitten by a dog, its teeth ripping off a chunk of my flesh, or have needles pierce my skin hundreds of times, I wouldn’t take the deal. Certainly I wouldn’t undergo childbirth for 1,000 dollars, especially if it was without anestheticSadly, on average, the animals that we eat endure hundreds of hours of this kind of debilitating agony over the course of their life. They endure somewhere on the order of an hour a day of this pain.I’ll just discuss one such case, the case of the egg-laying hen, with the facts gathered from this report. https://welfarefootprint.org/research-projects/laying-hens/Egg-laying hens in conventional farms endure about 400 hours (!!!!!) of this kind of disabling agony. Remember, this is agony about as bad as the worst thing that’s ever happened to you, unless you’ve had an experience as bad as being severely tortured. This is the agony that makes it impossible to think of anything else. The hens endure about an hour of a day of this extremely intense agony.This intense pain comes from many sources including (this list is non-exhaustive):Bone fractures.The majority of hens experience a bone fracture over the course of their life. On average, they have three. Imagine if you broke the same bone three times This is, and I can’t emphasize this enough, what most hens deal with the industry that produces our eggs is so cruel that it breaks the bones of most hens multiple times.In fact, the situation is much worse for hens than it would be for us because the area around their keel bone,
>>546273856which is the most common kind of fracture, has a huge number of nerves. While such experiences in humans usually produce disabling pain for about a day, for chickens, such pain lasts about a weekOften the bone doesn’t heal properly, leading to constant intense agonyInjurious pecking.In a hen's natural environment, she’ll spend most of her time pecking the ground looking for food. In a modern farm, hens can’t do that, so they spend a lot of their time pecking other hens, often leading to severe injury (just imagine that you were being bitten all the time by people surrounding you). It’s not terribly uncommon for hens to be pecked to death (seriously imagine what it would be like for that to happen) or for pecking to affect a hen’s body part known as the vent which is particularly sensitive (in this case, for the males reading this, imagine someone biting your balls). Often this becomes infected.Every one of a hen’s natural behaviors are thoroughly squashed in the farms. Hens cannot make a nest prior to laying an egg, which causes them quite severe distress. Hens are willing to undergo strong electric shocks in order to get a suitable nest, about as strong as the electric shocks they’ll endure in order to get food after being starved for 28 hours (!!!!!). Remember, hens lay an egg roughly daily! This may not seem like a big deal, but only because we don’t appreciate the experience of being a nesting hen; an alien wouldn’t understand why we care about sex so much. Konrad Lorenz, a nobel prize winner summarized:>“The worst torture to which a battery hen is exposed is the inability to retire somewhere for the laying act. For the person who knows something about animals it is truly heart-rending to watch how a chicken tries again and again to crawl beneath her fellow-cage mates to search there in vain for cover”
>>546273501I’m pretty sure chickens are fucking retarded though
proof of a loving demiurge :DDD
>>546273501Humanity first if you're a misantrope just contribute to it in the sense that you should anhero
>>546273501>If you are not vegan you are personally causing this to happen to more animalsshitlibs should be stuffed on those conveyor belts, including op.
>>546273891Whenever you purchase a few cartons of eggs, you are consigning a chicken to living in these, excruciating conditions. Before you next purchase eggs, or chicken, or most any other animal product, though eggs are likely the worst, remember what the worst experience of your life is like, and vividly consider the fact that your purchase will likely cause others to endure many hours of an experience just as bad.Tragically, the true scenario is much worse than that. Even worse than these scenarios of intense yet bearable pain are experiences that the authors of the report call excruciating pain. This is the sort of pain experienced when a person is brutally tortured or slowly eaten alive or burned to death for minutes; the sorts of pain that, if you’re really brave, you can read about in some detail here. https://www.simonknutsson.com/the-seriousness-of-suffering-supplement They’re horrible enough to take on an almost qualitatively different dimension, something most of us wouldn’t trade for many decades of happy life. This kind of pain is literally inconceivable, it’s so bad that many people who experience it attempt suicide. A hen might experience this right as she’s being trampled and pecked to death.Hens experience, on average, about two and a half minutes of this horrifying agony. The hundreds of hens that the average person eats over the course of their life (and yes, your consumption of eggs does cause more hens to be brought into existence, mistreated, and killed) mean that the average person is probably causing several hours of this unfathomable agony, the sort of agony one experiences in the minutes that they die from burning, boiling, being eaten alive, or suffocating to death; the kind of agony worse than being mauled by a dog, worse than childbirth, worse by orders of magnitude than anything you’ve ever experienced>>546273901So are human newborns. It’s still wrong to Circumcise them and it’s worse if no anesthetic is used
>>546273501jump in and save them OP.
>>546273962There’s overwhelming evidence that individual boycott of animal products makes a difference.
>>546273634>LITERALLY
>>546273501>We should feel bad about this, because we are morally superior>If you don't care about this, then you're at same level with niggers
>>546273974The kind of experience that, to take a contemporary example, George Floyd probably experienced for the minutes that he was suffocating. (Fentanyl)The average meat eater causes hours of that!This is why factory farming is such a great moral emergency. It’s the cause of agony beyond what we could hope to imagine. Amounts we cannot fathom of agony that we cannot fathom. It’s not just egg-laying hens that experience this; it’s ubiquitous in the entire factory farming industry. As Ren says in an https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xtcgsLA2G8bn8vj99/reminding-myself-just-how-awful-pain-can-get-plus-an#Miscellaneous_thoughts_and_takeaways article that’s very worth reading, describing her own experience with fairly intense pain:A single broiler chicken experiences fifty hoursofhttps://www.pain-track.org/broilers[disabiling] pain during their lifespan, which lasts 4-6 weeks. There are 69 billion broilersslaughtered each year. That is so many hours of pain that if you divided those hours among humanity, each human would experience about 400 hours (2.5 weeks) of disabling pain every year. Can you imagine if instead of getting, say, your regular fortnight vacation from work or study, you experienced disabling-level pain for a whole 2.5 weeks? And if every human on the planet - me, you, my friends and family and colleagues and the people living in every single country - had that same experience every year?How hard would I work in order to avert suffering that urgent?
>>546274014
>>546273501Can they not at least gas them so it’s peaceful and not loud, terrifying and brutal? These are baby animals too so they’re probably wondering where their moms are too…Fuck that’s actually crazyI’m not saying they shouldn’t be culled btw. Just make it painless
>>546273926You're a retard, defo unironically think nigs should still be slaves on the plantations
>>546274074People should boycott animal products and also do something at the same time I am doing something right now
>>546273501It's literally a 2 seconds death.Much worse than my 35 years brown incel thirdie life.
>>546273501Worse, factory farming is used to bring in millions of goblin invaders
>eco-fash niggas temporarily turning off their opinions because they want to spite OP (his opinion is lib-coded)>same eco-fash niggas pretending they havent posted the 'hitler feeding a baby deer' pic 20 times this week
>>546273537LMAOGET OWNED INCELS
3rld world countries have 3rld world problems. In Finland we know better and have more humane practices
>>546274093There’s undercover footage of Indians drowning them which takes like half an hour for them to die https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5jkq7b2ZI0They also bury them or burn them alive
>>546274205Let’s start with our country first I guessAlso Indians don’t care about animals despite worshipping them. They have cows there that die of diseases because they live in pollution
>>546273501We need a /pol/ grinder for all of the useless men on here. If you think about it, /pol/ incels are not too different than my stupid rooster. He is loud and obnoxious, he is always pretending he is the tough guy on the block, then when an opossum gets in the coop he leaves the hens in, is the first one out and hiding in the azalea with his ass hanging out the back like a bitch. Really the only difference between him and /pol/ is he gets laid. But I guess I should be vegan because I feed this stupid worthless bird and take care of him instead of putting him in the wood chipper.
But what other meat should I eat if I don't have eggs for breakfast? Pork sausage? A t-bone? What am I supposed to use as a binder for cooking crab cakes and lots of other dishes? What am I supposed to drink on the go for breakfast if not blended raw egg and orange juice?You provide zero meat or seafood alternatives OP.
>>546274173Fur farming (especially of foxes and mink in small barren wire cages), which remains legal in Finland.Finland is one of the last EU countries where this is still permitted (most others have banned or heavily restricted it). There are roughly 300–400 active farms (concentrated in Ostrobothnia), mostly family operations, producing hundreds of thousands of foxes (blue/Arctic and silver/red) and mink annually, plus some raccoon dogsWhy it is widely regarded as among the most cruel practices still legalLifelong confinement: Animals (semi-wild species with strong needs to dig, run, hunt, swim/explore) spend their entire lives in small, barren wire-mesh cages (typically on the order of 0.8 m2 or similar for foxes). They cannot perform natural behaviors. EFSA’s 2025 scientific opinion on animals kept for fur production concluded that the most relevant welfare consequences—restriction of movement, inability to forage/explore, and sensory under-/overstimulation—cannot be prevented or substantially mitigated in the current cage systems used across the EU (including Finland). Limited improvements are possible for feeding, but core issues require a fundamentally different system.Selective breeding and health problems: “Monster” or obese foxes selectively bred for larger pelts often develop excessive skin folds, mobility issues, wounds, infections, and deformed feet. Investigations (including 2024 undercover work by Humane Society International and Finnish group Oikeutta eläimille) have repeatedly documented open wounds, infected eyes, splayed feet, and stereotypic (repetitive stress) behaviors even on farms claiming high standards under schemes like SAGA/WelFur.Killing methods: Foxes are typically killed by electrocution with electrodes placed in the mouth and rectum (anal electrocution) to avoid damaging the pelt; this requires restraint and causes high stress before (and sometimes during) the process.
How do you think they make chicken nuggets?
No matter how many times you post this I am still going to eat chicken.
>>546274301Adult, non severely mentally handicapped-incapable-of-reasoning humans allegedly have free will and moral responsibility unlike non human animals
>>546274337Oysters
>>546273501We need a larger version of that machine for a billion jeets.
>feeling guilty about absolute everythingbeing white is must be tiresome.
>>546274344That is propaganda. I visited a fur farm 15 years ago and it was very humane
>>546273501Are the at least using the paste productively? If yes, then what difference does it make how they're killed? They're dead in a second anyway.
>>546274580And I’ve seen undercover investigation footage of fur farms
>>546274564It's American brainwash, they're trying to guilt people before they can read or write. Guilt-complex, admitting nonsensical guilt is virtue signalling
>>546274678>>546274580https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AF5M-eK_XPk
>>546274738Nope. It’s just rejecting speciesism
>>546273501i feel about as guilty when i eat meat as a leopard jumpscaring and killing an impala, nonetheless this just feels like a waste of life. they should be grown for eventual slaughter despite not being a meat breed.
>>546274779>>546274580If anyone treated their own cat this way it’d be called abuse
>>546274738Seeing guys argue about fur farming in finland is true of false, I don't think it's just american. western eurofags think they live in a disney world or something.
>>546274839bad analogy. it’s more like a 3 year old human shooting and killing a 2 year old human. You are not a leopard. You are an adult
>>546274972Fur farms is already banned in much of the EU
>>546274812Experts say plants can feel pain too. You will stop eating plants, right?
>>546273501This planet is a loosh farm. Suffering is the energy that keep other beings alive just like how we keep those chickens alive to eat
>>546275006Sure, getting rid of some inhumane shit is totally fine.But where do you draw the line? I've seen guys feeling guilty about fish get suffering.
>>546274127Me too buddy, I’m getting my chickie nuggie order ready. I think a 50pc will get me through the day. What sauces shouldI get?
>>546275048no. I could find a “expert” that says the earth is flat but the overwhelming majority disagree.The overwhelming majority reject plant conscious and accept all birds and mammals are conscious.>>546274580
>>546275279The overwhelming majority of women reject /pol/ as being conscious
>>546273501Luckily, lab grown meat is actually here and just needs to be subsidized and taken to scale. This is only a social problem now. People can keep their chicken and eat it too.
>>546275141You treat animals how you would treat a trait equalized human, like a severely mentally handicapped human being who can not reason so less intelligent than a pig.As far as fish, if we are to grant rights to a couple months old human fetuses because they are probably significantly conscious we should also grant rights to fish who are probably significantly conscious >>546274580
>>546273501Every minute a white woman get raped by a nigger shitskin
>>546274580
>>546273501Sad, ban halal and kosher butchering.
>>546273501Isn't that just because the males taste bad (not sure why we don't keep them and sell to 3rd world countries)
>>546274979i've never suffered from delusions about my place in the natural order. i'm a predator who just so happens to live in a system that delegates tasks among its members, and i have the comfortable position to not have to do the killing myself. that doesn't make me morally superior in any way, even though libtards will claim that before heading for mcdonald's shit burgers.i don't care if you're vegan or not, that's an individual choice. but a life shouldn't be wasted, so wasting meat or treating the "products" of these industries like garbage is utterly despicable.
>>546273501god I wish that were me
>>546273501We should kill jeets, shitskins and muslims in this way
>>546274580No. The six Finnish fox fur farms featured in that video were not shut down as a result of the undercover investigation.No. The six Finnish fox fur farms featured in that video were not shut down as a result of the undercover investigation. >>546274779The video (uploaded January 19, 2023, by the Fur Free Alliance) shows footage recorded by Finnish group Oikeutta eläimille (Justice for Animals) and Humane Society International between June and November 2022 at six randomly selected fox farms in the Ostrobothnia region. It documented issues such as infections (eyes, ears, tails), deformed or splayed feet, obese “monster” foxes bred for larger pelts, and other welfare problems, despite many farms being SAGA Furs-certified with claims of high welfare standards. The material was released to support the EU-wide Fur-Free Europe petition calling for a ban on fur farming and sales.Finnish industry group FIFUR (Finnish Fur Breeders’ Association) responded that the footage was selective, that the farms were certified, and that conditions were regulated with veterinary oversight. There are no reports of these specific farms being closed by authorities because of the investigation.
>>546275191Honey muss all the way
>>546273501why exactly can't this be done with terrorists and average murderers?
>>546274111no. humanity first just as i said
>>546275551Naming 'food chain/naturality' to morally justify something is an appeal to nature logical fallacy.Just because something is natural, doesn't make that something OK/good/ideal/optimal/justified.There are many things that are natural that people do and that are not morally OK. Simply naming a few of them should be enough to demonstrate how 'natural' is irrelevant to morality.Is raping OK, because it's natural?What about fighting for territory? Out ancestors fought for territory.Is making your child live in a cave without medicine good, because it's only natural to do so?And so on.If 'food chain' is a justification of the interlocutor/s' harm and consumption of animals, then they should also be fine with other animals eating us, and shouldn't want to intervene when a human is being eaten, nor be wanting to protect against predators that are above us in the food chain - which is obviously not the case.P1. X being weaker/lower in the food chain than Y makes it morally OK for Y to eat/harm X.P2. Humans are weaker and lower in the food chain in nature than lions.C1. It's morally OK to allow lions to eat/harm humans in nature.P1. X being weaker/lower in the food chain than Y makes it morally OK for Y to eat/harm X.P2. Humans are weaker and lower in the food chain than super-intelligent aliens/AI.C1. It's morally OK for super-intelligent aliens/AI to eat/harm humans.'Food chain' often ends up being a case of 'might makes right', where actions are morally justified as long as a 'stronger' being inflicts harm upon a weaker one.This is laughably absurd, as reductio ad absurdum shows how insane this argument is.P1. X being weaker than Y makes it morally OK for Y to harm X.P2. Baby humans are weaker than adult humans.C1. It's morally OK for adult humans to harm baby humans.https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait#Food_Chain.2FNaturalityWe should treat others the way we want to be treated.
>>546274127shitlibs are for infinite migration therefore they are responsible for dead animals via turd world ritualistic practices .
>>546275666someone else could easily draw their ingroup preference line at race instead of species. human barely means anything, what if tomorrow a spaceship crashed into earth and on it were some living conscious individuals who looked and acted just like humans but were a completely different species with no common ancestor to you and me and incapable of making offspring with humans? Is it morally acceptable to eat them?What if they were also severely permanently mentally handicapped and unable to reason? Is it okay to kill and eat them then?
>>546275812So are conservatives, they just pretend they aren’t.
>>546273501Thought your title was "BIILIONS OF LIVING CONDOMS..." lol'd and stopped reading
>>546274361E X T R U D E DM E A TP R O D U C T
>>546275926don't change the subject
>>546274610They are used for things like fertilizer which is why vegans should avoid organic vegan food, it indirectly makes factory farming more profitable. Non organic is also cheaper
>>546273501mmh nuggets
>>546273537Those chicks get a more merciful death than the majority of humans
>>546273501I know and I think it's terrible. What is a humane solution that doesn't put unsustainable strain on the industry and allows for affordable production that meets domestic demand? Gassing?
>>546274344>anal electrocutionTha fuck?
>>546275720too much cope. moralfagging isn't a thing in nature. it's not a good thing that the ocean drowns people and animals in its waters, but the ocean doesn't give a shit because that's just the way it is.
>>546273501If anyone says it's not possible to remove ten million foreigners from your country, just show them this video.
>>546273501Humanity is the heritor (child) of God's kingdom (all of reality and beyond) so all other beings are subservient and exist for our benefit. The Bible teaches this. Ergo it is not wrong because that is what they were created for.
>>546273974Yeah but human children grow into human adults. Baby chickens just grow into delicious retards
>>546276564They electrocute them to death by sticking something in their ass.Shooting them damages fur>>546276289Veganism>>546276588But we should still give out life preservers and floaties and boats
>>546276889not if the human child is born severely mentally handicapped so they will never be able to be more intelligent than a normal healthy pig>>546276734Circumcising children is wrong. It’s always been wrong. A (person naming the trait) would say:P1. God dictates morality.P2. God has given moral permission for humans to do how they please with non-humans.C1. Humans are morally OK to do how they please with non-humans.B (person challenging A to NTT) could then say:P1. God dictates morality.P2. God has given moral permission for humans to do how they please with non-humans.C1. Humans are morally OK to do how they please with non-humans.C2. Humans are morally OK to torture dogs to have a laugh.A could then say:P1. God dictates morality.P2. God has given moral permission for humans to do how they please with non-humans.P3. Harm for fun is an exception, as God doesn't condone it.C1. Humans are morally OK to do how they please with non-humans, as long as it's not for fun.C2. Humans are not morally OK to torture dogs to have a laugh.And so on.If, instead, B would try to challenge the premises, it would prove complicated and tedious to convince A that the premises are incorrect, derailing the discussion from being effective to the original goal: to convince the interlocutor/s to go vegan.A would say:P1. God dictates morality.P2. God has given moral permission for humans to do how they please with non-humans.C1. Humans are morally OK to do how they please with non-humans.
>>546277129>>546276734At which point, B would have to engage with the premises, and things would get complicated.B could challenge P1., and say:P1. If God is morally incorrect about something, he's not a moral authority.P2. God expressed his moral commands through his word.C1. For God to dictate morality, he should be able to always be correct with his word.P3. There are examples where God's word lead to a morally bad outcome, causing more suffering and less happiness.C2. God's word is morally inconsistent.C3. Morality shouldn't be solely based on God.A could then say:P1. The words of God were misinterpreted during those instances where there was more suffering and less happiness as a result.P2. The words of God need to be interpreted correctly for them to always be morally right.C1. It was the humans' misinterpretations that led to those bad outcomes.C2. Your conclusions are incorrect, as your P3. is incorrect, and my original P1. still holds.
>>546276734“Humanity” ? Other beings? Did two non humans give birth to a human? Would it have been okay for this human to kill and eat his non human parents?
>>546273501Not all lives have the same valueA chicken's life is borderline worthlessTo say otherwise is to believe in hinduism, benthams. I have destroyed you in every argument. And remember:YOU ARE ON TEAM HORSE FUCKER!
>>546273501Look at this Nazi, caring about animal welfare.
>>546277214Two subhumans gave birth to successively less subhuman primatesRegardless, a chimpanzee is not as worthless as a chicken, and is considerably more important than a cow, not only because it is a more materially useful animal, but because it is so much like us that actions done to it hit closer to our prosocial instincts.This is not the case for livestock like cattle and chickens. Hunters and traditional farmers do not demonstrate higher crime rates, unlike dog abusers. It takes thousands of hours of sloppy pig slaughter to affect the human psyche as badly as shooting ONE dog.
>>546277215nope. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/545331136/#q545337606you didn’t even respond https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/545331136/#q545339684https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/545331136/#q545339407https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/545331136/#q545339269
>>546277129It doesn't matter how you rank pigs on intelligence. A retarded human is fairly alright.A pig eats its own offspring.Also, pigs are less intelligent than healthy large dogs, and are consistently outperformed in real life by german shepherds and the like. It is extremely unlikely that anyone would ever be as dumb as a pig.
>>546273501cant believe these lil niggas used to be dinosaursget fucking MAMMALED you reptilian fags
>>546277215You are on team turkey rapistanti beastiality laws have exceptions written into them for artificial inseminationHave you ever wondered how the turkeys are produced? The industry has a problem with producing turkeys, because they’ve genetically engineered the turkeys to be too large to breed properly. A turkey in the wild is only 8 pounds by the age of four months, while the turkeys we confine are 41 pounds by that time. This is the equivalent of a 4-month-old baby being over 75 pounds.So, how do they produce more turkeys? They employ a procedure that we would uncontroversially call rape if done to a human, yet is given the clinical name artificial insemination. This involves holding down a male turkey, forcibly masturbating him, collecting the semen in a beaker, holding down a female turkey, and forcibly injecting the male semen into the female turkey, even as she thrashes and tries to get away. In nature, female turkeys evolved to be quite selective about those they mate with, and unsurprisingly find the experience terrifying. Those injecting the turkey semen into the female turkeys do this ghastly procedure about once every 12 seconds. One person who worked in the industry described:
>>546277405>The hens weigh 20 to 30 pounds and are terrified, beating their wings and struggling in panic. They go through this every week for more than a year, and they don’t like it. Once you have grabbed her with one hand, you flop her down chest first on the edge of the pit with the tail end sticking up. You put your free hand over the vent and tail and pull the rump and tail feathers upward. At the same time, you pull the hand holding the feet downward, thus “breaking” the hen so that her rear is straight up and her vent open. The inseminator sticks his thumb right under the vent and pushes, which opens it further until the end of the oviduct is exposed. Into this, he inserts a straw of semen connected to the end of a tube from an air compressor and pulls a trigger, releasing a shot of compressed air that blows the semen solution from the straw and into the hen’s oviduct. Then you let go of the hen and she flops away.Unsurprisingly, this is similarly unpleasant for the humans working in the industry. The same worker described:>It was the hardest, fastest, dirtiest, most disgusting, worst-paid work I have ever done. For ten hours we grabbed and wrestled birds, jerking them upside down, facing their pushed-open assholes, dodging their spurting shit, while breathing air filled with dust and feathers stirred up by panicked birds. Through all that, I received a torrent of verbal abuse from the foreman and others on the crew. I lasted one day.So that’s where turkeys come from. The industry holds down female turkeys and injects male turkey semen into them so that they can continue producing hideous monstrosities too large and disabled to breed, because that produces more turkey flesh.
Chicken nuggets taste good. Chicken sandwiches taste good.
>>546277298>This is not the case for livestock like cattle and chickens. Hunters and traditional farmers do not demonstrate higher crime rates, unlike dog abusers. It takes thousands of hours of sloppy pig slaughter to affect the human psyche as badly as shooting ONE dog.It’s impossible to feed billions of people a diet with a significant amount of traditional farmer or hunted wild animal products. Factory farming and slaughterhouses in which a single person kills thousands of animals are used because they are extremely efficient compared to pasture raised animal products
>>546277326>the thread deletedTeam Horsefucker rep, a horse is not harmed by sex. The moral base is harmed by sex. Your attitude towards consent is harmed by bestiality.However, animals having sex with each other is not immoral, because they have no moral agency. They are only accessories to moral hygiene when we interact with them.>>546277405I don't support AI or modern high density livestock farming.I support traditional ranching and hunting.Your entire argument is saying I support an industry I don't. I consider high density, high throughput, high waste factory farms an affront to man's moral character and material health. The animals have no rights, but treating them this way is how men condition themselves to be more comfortable with the outward symptoms of torment.My argument is saying your morality is satanically inverted and places beasts above man. Because ALL vegans do. Being veganism for ethical reasons is ontologically evil.
>>546274301You got a bitch made rooster Mine stands between the danger and the hens..he was drug into the woods by a fox and by the time I got my shotgun and was outside I thought he was gone.He comes strutting out of the woods with blood all over his spurs and missing all his tail feathers.I'll cry when he dies. He has fed me more than any person. I eat bitch made roosters.
>>546277554Having sex with a person in a coma may not harm them but it’s still immoral.>However, animals having sex with each other is not immoral, because they have no moral agency.In many cases it should be prevented. For the same reason two adult humans who are severely mentally handicapped and unable to reason and lacking in moral agency should be prevented from raping each other
>>546277554As a traditional farmer, from my perspective your views are pretty retarded.Vegans and vegetarians are fine 2026, if anything it's probably preferable. We bastardized food so much and made it so easy and accessible it's admirable they have the self control.I don't.They genuinely are morally superior. They don't need to be so fucking annoying about it tho. There are ways in which people are morally superior to them.
>>546277554You can say you don’t support it but if you support the earth having billions of non vegan humans on it, then factory farming, artificial insemination, etc is the only way to feed each of those billions of humans each a significant amount of animal products. The earth doesn’t have enough resources for billions of humans to each get a significant amount of wild or pasture raised locally slaughtered animal products
>>546277553>It’s impossible to feed billions of people a diet with a significant amount of traditional farmer or hunted wild animal products.Absolutely wrong. The exact same amount of land could be used if each factory farm were broken up by many other factory farms. If we increased welfare, we would only decrease density and get away with it because we would be reducing waste (the current system wastes 1/4-1/5 animals) Only human labor use would go up, and good thing too, because my countrymen are going homeless while tech giants import indian slaves and outsource all productive work.Not only that, but we have enough land to use even more of it if need beConcentrated operations were created by USDA regulatory frameworks, not practical need.We also have a massive deer overpopulation issue. Rather than reintroducing wolves (a dangerous nuisance animal that no longer has a place in the modified ecosystem), wild deer should be regularlyhunted by corporate hunting forces for public consumption.>>546277701Yeah, its immoral because they're A PERSON.>In many cases it should be preventedSatanic faggot with inverted morality. Animals have no moral agency. They are natural creations operating as they should, non-sentient, borderline thoughtless, living the life they evolved to.>>546277708They are morally inferior cretins that would eat an egg or die if the factories stopped pumping out supplements and the trucks stopped delivering out of season and exotic produce.Veganism is a godless virtue signaling luxury for upper classmen with too much free time and unproductively utilized capital. It's such an unnatural and self-harming practices that 75% who fall for this inverted satanic morality fail due to health issues. It doesn't scale. Even meat restriction (ie: india) causes a massive lowering of human quality - overall health, body size, and brain development suffer.
>>546273501Daily reminder that although OP is bleeding out every orifice over these roosters xhe is still pro-choice.
>>546277373>A pig eats its own offspring.1 in 5 women in the United States has had an abortion. When accounting for abortion of healthy non conceived through rape 12 weeks or older fetuses(possibly conscious), women commit roughly 70 to 80% of all homicides (using 50,000 residual procedures + 18 to 20,000 conventional murders, of which women commit 10 to 12%). About 1 in 50 women have ever had such a procedure.
>>546277882A cow consumes so many resources no matter how you farm it.The density of concentrated farms is NOT the only option. It is the most profitable option encouraged by USDA regulations... and EPA regulations... and property taxes.. making it too expensive for more distributed, traditional farms to operate. We are not short on land. We are not short on farm labor. We are short on sensible governance and suffer under the extractive practices of central bankers, leftist regulators, and satanic, morally inverted, "man under nature" demons like you, faggot, who are glad to watch the broken system crumble.>>546278059WhataboutismWe are not talking about your consciousness worship scientism cult here we are talking about humans and pigsA retarded human is still a human with thought and free willA pig is a mindless animal that gives birth to babies and then crushes and eats them 2 weeks laterA pig is dumber than a german shepherd, more asocial, less able to learn to cooperate with others than a much dumber dog than it, and mostly exists to convert biological waste into meat.
>>546274564>not feeling guilty about the unnecessary suffering you causebeing Korean is must be easy
>>546278187>valuing the life of a fucking chicken so much you feel guilty because a chick (even dumber than a full grown chicken) died instantly in a shredderIt's not just stupid to care about morally, it's not a necessary practice either, it's a wasteful, dirty, disease generating one born of an artificially encouraged system that mostly just enables a few people to get richer than everyone else without sharing that wealth with their countrymen.
>>546277960Slaughterhouse workers are convicts on parole trying to avoid being sent back to prison by working a job they hate because it’s barely better than prison and illegal immigrants. People hate working in slaughterhouses. It is constrained, not strictly impossible—but the biophysical and efficiency realities make a major global shift to traditional/pasture-raised or hunted animal products far more land- and resource-intensive than intensive systems for the same output.Livestock already uses roughly 80% of agricultural land (grazing + feed cropland) while supplying only about 17–18% of global calories and ~37–38% of protein. Roughly half of habitable land is already in agriculture. Much grazing land is marginal (steep, arid, short growing seasons) and poorly suited to crops, so ruminants can convert otherwise unused biomass into food. That is a real advantage of extensive systems. However, intensive systems are more efficient per unit of meat/milk/eggs because of faster growth, better feed conversion, and less land overall (even accounting for feed crops). Grass-fed or fully pasture-based beef, in particular, has high land demands.
>>546273501Circumcision is literally worse
>>546277960Land and “breaking up” factory farmsSplitting large operations into many smaller intensive ones uses similar land and feed if density and production stay high—it does not automatically free capacity or match traditional low-density systems. True traditional or high-welfare pasture systems reduce stocking density and typically require substantially more land per unit of output. U.S. analyses indicate existing pasture resources can support only about 27% of current beef production on grass alone; including some forage crops (which can compete with human food) raises that toward ~45–60%, still well short of current levels without expansion or yield gains. Scaling Western-style high-meat diets globally already pushes against or beyond available habitable land in modeling exercises. Lower per-capita animal-product intake, focused use of marginal lands, and productivity improvements make higher shares of traditional products more feasible; matching today’s global volumes with far more extensive methods does not.Waste, welfare, and mortalityRoutine mortality in modern feedlots is typically around 1–1.5% for cattle on feed (higher historically in some data sets, with respiratory disease a major cause). Poultry and swine finishing rates are also low single digits in well-managed systems; newborns are higher (e.g., ~10% for piglets). These are not the 20–25% “waste” levels claimed. Higher welfare (more space, outdoor access) can improve some health and behavior outcomes but generally increases land, feed, or labor requirements and can raise certain risks (predation, parasites, disease exposure) until management adapts. Efficiency gains from density and controlled environments are why intensive systems dominate volume.
>>546277960Regulations and concentrationConcentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs) are defined and permitted mainly under EPA Clean Water Act rules (NPDES for manure/waste discharges), with roots in the 1970s and major updates in 2003/2008. USDA shapes broader farm policy (subsidies, research, farm bills) that has influenced cheap grain and scale, but concentration was driven primarily by economies of scale, genetics/nutrition/housing technology, vertical integration by processors, and market forces—not by regulations that mandated large operations. Regulations address the externalities (water/air pollution) created by concentration. Compliance costs can favor larger operators who can spread them, and some policies have subsidized the intensive model, but the claim that USDA regulatory frameworks “created” CAFOs as a practical necessity is overstated.Hunted wild productsSustainable wild harvests contribute meaningfully in places (U.S. big-game hunting yields hundreds of thousands of tons of meat annually and can support local food security and conservation funding). Globally, however, carrying capacity limits them. Overhunting is a documented threat to wildlife populations; models for tropical forests often suggest sustainable wild protein supports on the order of ~1 person per km2 or similar low densities. It is not a scalable primary source for billions without severe ecological costs.Labor and land availabilityMore extensive systems do use more labor per unit of output. That is a real tradeoff, separate from whether the biophysical capacity exists.
>>546277960There is additional marginal land in some regions, and productivity gains (rotational grazing, better genetics, etc.) can raise output from existing pastures, but expanding high-volume traditional production at current consumption levels implies either more land conversion, higher prices, or reduced total animal-product supply.In short, significant animal products from mixed or more traditional systems are possible—especially ruminants on land unsuitable for crops, combined with lower overall meat consumption in high-intake regions and continued efficiency gains. Matching today’s global volumes and dietary patterns primarily with low-density traditional or hunted products runs into hard land, feed, and ecological limits that intensive systems were developed to overcome. The data show efficiency differences and land constraints more than a pure regulatory artifact.
>>546273501This is a hebraic psyop to get people buying the Isaeli invented genetically engineered frankenchickens that only hatch females when the eggs are hit with UV. What do you think ends up in Rover's chicken flavored kibble? It is this
I have never met a vegan who actually cared about humans so as far as I'm concerned you need to be shoved in the blender too.
This is what they do to me at work every day
>>546278187https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.2466/04.17.CP.4.15>Why Do Northeast Asians Win So Few Nobel Prizes?>The gene DRD4 codes for the D4 type dopamine receptors in the central nervous system. There are many different DRD4 alleles coding different numbers of 48 base pairs from two repeats to 11 repeats. Almost all alleles in East Asian populations are 2- and 4-repeats, while 7-repeats are found in about 20–30% of Europeans, Africans, and Polynesians. Some Amazonian tribes have more than 50% of this allele>A longer repeat means a smaller number of dopamine receptors, hence, more stimuli are necessary for the carrier to feel satisfied. This makes individuals with longer repeats more attracted to novel ideas and experiences, which lead to novelty-seeking behavior. Especially, the 7-repeat allele has been recognized as the gene for novelty-seeking behavior and impulsivityhttps://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs53576>rs53576 is a silent G to A change in the oxytocin receptor (OXTR) gene. Studies have demonstrated that individuals with the G allele are more empathetic, feel less lonely, employ more sensitive parenting techniques, and have lower rates of autismAsians are genetically bound to be slave drones and have zero independent thinking. They also have the highest rate of a mutation that makes them unable to feel empathy towards humans and animals alike. Being a gook means you lack understanding of suffering.
>>546278187I value their sacrifice. Which is very worthy.Virtue signaling won't work for me.
>>546277976https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkH3vrevU9o The earliest case for which I believe the precautionary principle should hold was around 43-45 days. Which comes out to be 6.1-6.4 weeks.The fetal brain begins to develop around 3-5 weeks gestation. So I am okay with abortions prior to that timeframe.It's hard to say what the levels of sentience equate to at each week. But I wouldn't not assume this is a miniscule amount of sentience. Many EEG brain patterns observed in fetal brains as early as 6.1-6.4 weeks ( high voltageslow waves with superimposed fast activity) are comparable to mature birds, mature frogs, mature rabbits and the mature marmot. We can even observe sleep spindles in the fetal brain this early.Does this prove the same degree of sentience? No. Does this give us reason to take the precautionary principle with respect to this degree of sentience? Yes
>>546278306DISCLAIMERI AM DONE RESPONDING TO YOUTHIS POST IS INTENDED FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO MAY READ YOUR AI GENERATED BULLSHIT We are not short on LAND. LAND. No adjective.Livestock do not have to graze naturally off the dirt to live more traditionally in cleaner, lower density operations. They can still be fed processed food.Also, cut government corn/soi subsidies and watch what happens. All of a sudden livestock are eating chaff mixed with minerals again.>>546278306>>546278344>>546278373>>546278394EVERYSINGLEFUCKINGPOSTWASWRITTENBYAI
>>546273501The same thing is happening to humans. Worse if you don't consider never having a chance at life to be the same across species.
>>546278156>A retarded human is still a human with thought and free willYou have a bad habit of just asserting things as self evidently true that are not. I see no reason to believe a severely mentally handicapped human adult who can’t reason and is less intelligent than a pig has thought and free will yet a healthy adult pig does not. I’ve already addressed pig pro socialness and intelligence compared to dogs in previous threads with plenty of high quality research.
>>546273501Nigger if Jesus didn't want me pressing them into nuggets he wouldn't have made them out of chickenJesus wants you to grind chickens up feet first. If he didn't why did he die for our sin?
>>546278325
You can stop factory farming, by stopping to work in jewish daycare jobs and going back to a pre-mechanised rural life and growing food yourself.Aside of that I do not understand why jews cry about the fate of chicklets while they masturbate to the suffering of humans.
>>546278433There’s plenty of them in effective altruist communities.
YOU REPLIED WITH AIYOU CONCEDED THE ARGUMENTYOU LOSE AGAINBEINGVEGANFORETHICALREASONSISONTOLOGICALLYEVILHUMAN PROSPERITY TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER ANIMALSANIMALS HAVE NO MORAL VALUE OR MORAL AGENCYTHEY ARE MERE ACCESSORIES TO HUMAN BEHAVIORAL HYGIENEFACTORY FARMING IS NOT A PRACTICAL NECESSITY, IT IS AN ARTIFICIAL SYSTEM THAT EMERGED FROM UNNATURAL AND FRANKLY BAD ECONOMIC REGULATIONSHUMANITY IS UNABLE TO SUFFER VEGANISM AT SCALE. EVEN RESTRICTING MEAT CAUSES WIDESPREAD LOSS OF HEIGHT AND BRAIN MASS/FUNCTION BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS LACK THE EDUCATION, FREE TIME, AND FREE CAPITAL TO MANAGE AN UNNATURAL DIET THAT RUNS AGAINST OVER 2 MILLION YEARS OF HUMAN EVOLUTION.>>546278659BEHOLD THE AI SLOPPER REVEALS HIS MINDHE EQUATES HUMANS WITH PIGSHE DOES NOT HAVE INNATE, ANTHROPOCENTRIC EMPATHYHE WILL SAY HE FEELS THE SAME FOR HUMANS AND PIGSTHE LIKELY TRUTH IS HE FEELS SO LITTLE FOR HUMANS HE FEELS THE SAME FOR PIGSHE IS MOST LIKELY A MILD SOCIOPATH OR AUTISTIC AND MISTAKES THIS IMPAIRMENT FOR HIGHER ANIMAL EMPATHYAND NO, NO QUALITY RESEARCH HAS SHOWN PIGS ARE SMARTER THAN DOGSTHEY HAVE INFERIOR CORTICAL COMPLEXITY AND BRAIN/BODY RATIOSTHE BEST RESEARCH CLAIMED DOGS WERE NOT SELF AWARE BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WANT TO USE THEIR SENSITIVE NOSES TO MOVE A JOYSTICK AS READILY AS A ROOTING ANIMAL THAT USES ITS SNOUT TO DIG!A GERMAN SHEPHER'DS CEREBRAL CORTEX IS TWICE AS COMPLEX AS A PIGS, AND THEY ARE DIFFICULT TO STUDY SCIENTIFICALLY BECAUSE THEIR DECISION MAKING PROCESS IS MORE COMPLEX AND HARDER TO PREDICT!
>>546278613Life ain't all it's cracked op to be. This is the silver lining of being ill conceived unbegotten niggerspawn.And the pullets that escape the grinder get to be battery egg laying hens six to s cage.
>>546278477I saw white people feeling guilty about killing roaches and spiders.That is not empathy, that's moral fagging.
>>546278862I hear a quote once that still shocks me to this day."We were allowed to live."
BENTHAMS, I HAVE COMPELLED YOU TO SAY IN YOUR OWN WORDS THAT YOU WOULD MURDER A HUMAN BEING TO SPARE 1000 CATTLE FROM BEING SLAUGHTERED AND MADE FOOD FOR MANKINDYOU LOST THAT DAYYOU WILL LOSE EVERY DAYYOU ARE ONTOLOGICALLY EVILVEGANISM AND FACTORY FARMING ARE TWO SATANIC EXTREMES: EACH AN INVERSION OF CREATIONHERBIVORE MANAND MECHANICAL ANIMAL
>>546278502IMagine caring so little about anything that you let AI do everything for you. THese soulless abominations would get AI to do their mitzvot for them if they could.Jews are clearly not a distinct race but something is fundamentally broken about them biologically. It can't be the circumcision because their women are just as fucked in the head. Is it the incestuous child rape?
>>546278812BEHOLD THE AI SLOPPER REVEALS HIS MINDHE EQUATES ALIENS WITH HUMANSHE DOES NOT HAVE INNATE, ALIENPOCENTRIC EMPATHYHE WILL SAY HE FEELS THE SAME FOR ALIENS AND HUMANSTHE LIKELY TRUTH IS HE FEELS SO LITTLE FOR ALIENS HE FEELS THE SAME FOR HUMANSHE IS MOST LIKELY A MILD SOCIOPATH OR AUTISTIC AND MISTAKES THIS IMPAIRMENT FOR HIGHER HUMAN EMPATHYAND NO, NO QUALITY RESEARCH HAS SHOWN HUMANS ARE SMARTER THAN KLINGONSTHEY HAVE INFERIOR CORTICAL COMPLEXITY AND BRAIN/BODY RATIOS
>>546278900Asian autism is powerful.
>>546278962Alienfags invent a god to justify their preconceived bullshit"Bro what if aliens ate/enslaved us"You are a chimp in a jungle compared to aliens, they don't care about you at all because they're not bushmeat eating niggers. They eat cows.
>>546278998I'm looking forward to witness people feeling guilty of killing mosquitoes inhumane way.Moral Supremacy is hell of a drug.
>>546278921I’m not Bentham you schizoPlenty of people would mutter a human being to spare 1000 cattle if that human being were a serial killer, someone from a tribe they hate, someone who has wronged them in some way such as stealing from them, etc
>>546277129If a human was as retarded as a chicken I think it would be morally okay to eat them. I wouldn’t recommended it solely because it looks like a person. But otherwise I don’t have a problem with that because it would be functionally braindead
>>546279122Just because you eat dogs doesn’t mean others want to slaughter their pets.
>>546279205And prion disease too. Gotta watch out for that. And holy shit have you seen the diet of the average nigger? I bet they taste fucking awful
>>546273501You have a fair point.And the fact that it's male chicks includes an element of Misandry.It would be hard to take an anti-feminist stance without acknowledging that men of other species are being treated poorly for the same reasons human men are being treated poorly: we are judged based on our societal utility rather than having an innate level of dignity.
>>546279103That’s just dodging because even if the aliens weren’t vegan for some reason even though veganism is the most efficient and they could have ethical lab grown meat they absolutely could use humans for things like torturous medical experimentations or keeping them as pets in human zoos in suboptimal conditions. Humans have done this to humans of other tribes many times before
>>546279323Yes. When I suffer I do not believe my suffering is unfortunate because of my species or sex. The suffering is bad because it feels bad and it’d still be bad if I took a pill that changed my dna making me a different species or sex.
>>546279279Admit it.You don't care about animals.You just want to feel superior to others by vitue signaling.
>>546279205Superintelligent AI will farm us for our bodies. When we reach adulthood having grown up in a cage tyey will scoop.out our brains and install the Neuralink to the hivemindSocialite AI will pay.extra for cage free bodies where there will be a Logan's Run style society where you leave at age 18 for boys age 16 for girls for the brain scooping procedure
>>546273501That's the intensive egg industry for you. If you went back before factory farming practices came the norm the males were usually slaughtered at about 12 weeks, just as they start to fight with each other.The reason they don't raise the males as meat is because there are two types of chicken in intensive production, there's egg chickens (rhode island red) and there's meat chickens (cornish cross) and they you don't get much meat from a egg chicken, likewise you don't get as many eggs out of a meat chicken.I used to raise them for years. Even took a few ex battery shed hens in that were destined for the dog food factory after they were considered unproductive after the moult.I don't keep them any more, but I do make a point of picking free range meat and eggs when buying them.
Idgaf
>>546279279>U.S. shelters euthanized an estimated 60% to 70% of incoming animals (over 13 million pets annually)lmao, as if whitey doesn't. the animal shelter called. lassie and old yeller were sterilized and chipped and when you didn't pick them up, euthanized
>>546279557There are different kinds of egoism: psychological and ethical. Psychological egoism says that people always and only act in their self-interest. Ethical egoism says that people should only act in their self-interest. The big problem with ethical egoism is that it's totally ridiculous. Suppose that you could press a button which gives you some benefit but tortures a bunch of galaxies full of people. You obviously shouldn't press it. But ethical egoism says you should.Ethical egoists, in response to this objection, often try to tell some story about why pressing the button would really be bad for you. But we can stipulate away these features: imagine you'd feel no remorse, you can't trade with the people, no one will know, your memory will be wiped, etc. It still seems wrong to press it.What about psychological egoism which says that people always only act in their own self-interest? This is just very implausible as a fact
>>546273501Build a big one for shitskins
>>546279557about human psychology. Sometimes people throw themselves on a bomb to save their friends or toil for years so their children can have a better life. It's implausible that this is really in their self-interest. I think basically all good people all the time do things that aren't in their interest.I sometimes wonder whether psychological egoists have ever met a parent. Isn't it obvious that people often do things for their children's sake, not for their own?In response to this argument, psychological egoists start trying to tell some story about how the real thing motivating this behavior is that you feel bad when you behave badly because of guilt. That's true enough, but it's not at all plausible that that's why people do it. You might feel bad if you don't save your friends, but you will also feel bad if you explode.The standard of proof for "people always act for the sake of X," cannot be "when people act you can generally tell some story, however implausible, about how it advances X." By that logic, you could similarly say that people are only motivated by gaining money, or something.The argument that convinces people of egoism is generally something like the following:
>>546279561AI aren't jews, dork.
>>546279557>conflating a mosquito with a dogGook logic on display.
>>5462795571. People always act in accordance with their desires.2. But acting in accordance with your desires is invariably self-interested.3. So people always act in self-interested ways.The big problem is that 2. is false. If you desire to help other people, it isn't selfish to help them. It's only selfish if you try to help them because you think it benefits you. But if you have genuine care for them, then helping them out doesn't involve acting in self-interested ways.
>>546279561Yes and vegans can say this is wrong without being hypocrites. Meat eaters generally can’t without having to bite some other absurd bullet / reductio ad absurdum. That’s what arguments like name the trait are for
>>546278494'their' sacrifice? I doubt they would do it if they were given a choice.
>>546279730Simple, Mr.Schopenhauer.If the result is the same, intension doesn't matter.
>>546279621The chicken meat industry is also cruel . They are bred to grow too big too fast, these meat birds are the equivalent of a literally 700 pound human
I worked on a chicken farm for three months and I have zero affection for chickens as a result of it. They are mindless robots and one of the only animals I dislike. I heard turkeys have great personalities though
>>546279799Incorrect. It's not absurd to see weaker animals as prey and stronger animals as a threat, that's logical you absolute sped For most of human history the limiting factor to our development was calories and as the population of the planet races towards 10 billion in the middle of a gigantic fertiliser shortage, it's going to be the problem again in the near future.
>>546279378>Veganism is the most efficientMaybe for a species with a bioreactor that can actually digest cellulose and lignin in its torso. Not for us.When we harvest crops for our consumption, we produce masses of waste we can not digest, and still can not meet the needs of our brains and bodies. Pregnant women and developing children in particular really can't and livelong vegans always end up slightly stunted, at best, if they come from a very rich and leisurely background.I don't care that aliens experiment on people btw.There is not just no argument against it, it increases the likelihood that there's no metaphysics in material morals. You can not stop them with words.Importantly, even if the words were correct, you would not stop them with words either.>>546279171>Plenty of people would mutter a human being to spare 1000 cattle if that human being were a serial killer, someone from a tribe they hate, someone who has wronged them in some way such as stealing from them, etcNo thats just youNo one else would murder a reformed murderer out of jail, a jew, or their old enemy for working on a farm unless they were evil>>546279468>Suffering is bad because it feels bad>I would feel bad if I were a mindless chicken so its still badYour morals are inherently hedonist, further confirming your satanic and retarded nature.Feelings are not the moral ultimateAnd the alleged feelings of a lesser lifeform are less important than those of a higher one such as us
>>546273501Biology is a cruel mistress. Your soul, which may only witness, is your jaded lord. And so you have ego, to somehow cope.
>>546279799>You can't be a hypocrite in my frameworkIn my framework you don't have to argue against the AI eating you, and it doesn't matter if you could, because the AI wouldn't have to "be morally right in the chosen ethical framework". It could just ignore you and kill you anyways, not giving a fuck.What you have to do is fight to preserve yourself and free yourself from it. Not argue against the AI.It won't listen to you.The only correct morals are the ones that work in real life. Not the ones that win debate+virtue signaling contest hybrids.
>>546279859Lmao nigga they’re fine. The meat birds spend their entire life eating to their heart’s content and then they go to slaughter. It’s as happy as life gets for a fucking chicken.
>>546279899Also vegans like to think if we were surrounded by 8ft talk chickens we would make friends with them and sing Kombucha Anybody who has ever raised a chicken knows they would eviscerate us and rip our guts out without a second thought
>>546273501Chicken coop owner here. We let the cockrels live for roughly 4 months, then they get the axe, relax for 2 days and in the oven they go. Yes, it's a bit less meat but still delicious.
>>546279656I understand that since you eat Korean poop bread (basically you are gook pajeets) killing dogs humanely without the intent of eating them and not letting their numbers grow out of control is alien to your way of thinking.
>>546279988When a chicken is sick and dying the other chicks give zero fucks about it and just walk around it like it’s not there. Chickens aren’t good people folks!
>>546279697>or toil for years so their children can have a better life. It's implausible that this is really in their self-interestkin selection >Sometimes people throw themselves on a bomb to save their friendsA military unit is a proxy for a clan of warriors. So your brain thinks it’s kin selection
>>546279971And, furtherore.... any human arguing against the AI would have its destruction or impairment as their ultimate goal no matter what they said, or they'd be wasting their time.The AI can simply adopt a moral framework of its own and call yours invalid.>i do not have to adopt a system in which it is wrong for me to favor myself. sorry.>yes, you do! you don't care about suffering huh? psycho!>not yours, just mine, i am maximizing my success.>FEEL BAD BECAUSE I LIKE YOU LESS!>i don't care.the AI isn't human either, it doesn't have pre-wired values like empathy>>546280039Human morality and empathy are based on stimuliThe reason we white people don't kill and eat dogs is because dogs co-evolved with us as companion animals and trigger INNATE, automatic empathy whether we want it to be triggered or not, through appearances and behaviors that are close to the stimuli we require to feel these things. They even demonstrate humanlike modes of thought, prioritizing abstract social thought over other dimensions of intelligence to the point that herding dogs can learn and understand language with syntax and grammar.Asians have less of this "like me, feel more" instinct so not only do they simply not understand it, the negative effects on moral hygiene are not present for them. Even if they did not eat dogs, they would still behave like mild sociopaths, because they are mild sociopaths. Asia is the land where running over a person twice is better than saving them because healthcare is more expensive than a funeral.
>>546279663The fallacy is in supposing there is such a thing as abolute good or evil. What is good for me can be bad for you. What is good for us can be bad for them. The only ssbsolute is your point of view. And all of our supposed 'better nature' is the result of selfish calculation or evolutiomary experiment which is alsona kind of calculation. Consensus on good or evil applies among groups. Competition forces us to resolve usses and thems implying conflicting concepts of good and evil each as valid as the other from the pont of view of Saggitariua A*
>>546280090None of my chooks ever got sick but one did cut itself and the others pecked it to death and ate half the breast overnight. I thought it was a fox at first, couldn't figure out what the fuck happened until I checked the camera
>>546273501Pig CO2 stunning chambers are more questionable than this because they are suffocating in a airless gas chamber.
>>546273501In kosher/halal factories they actually torture animals for the fun of it, that's some awful shit, it's not even a machine, those should seriously be shut down immediately.
>>546279975That is demonstrably false . The evidence against that is overwhelming https://welfarefootprint.org/broilers#book
>>546280384And that's not an argument for veganism, it's an argument to return to using excess, non-arable land that's not even suitable as pasture to operate medium and low density feedlots.>but property taxesFuck the government>The USDA doesn't approve thisFuck the government>More people would be employed and they would demand higher wages since they would likely be locals, not illegals bussing in to the middle of nowhereFuck slaveholders
>>546279901Almost all the food fed to the billions of chickens Born every year is edible for humans. All those resources to grow that grain and then feed it to billions of tortured birds .
>>546273501>Why take a utilitarian / hedonistic view of “non humans” but take an inalienable rights view towards “humans” ?Good question, anon. We should stop feeding African "people"
>>546279912That’s no different than saying you can’t stop a gambling addict with words like expected value. It doesn’t prove mathematical platonism is false
>>546274127putting holes in cage is based tholook, they even enjoy the attention
This is how we should handle unproductive goyim
>>546279912Nope. You can believe in intrinsic goods besides pleasure like relationships
>>546280331The feeling of suffocation comes from detecting elevated CO2 not lack of O2. Also added pure CO2 acidifies water. Gonahead and taste water that has had dry ice evaporate in it. It tasted like soda.CO2 was probably chosen to be as cheap.as possible
>>546279971Morals that win debates often are the ones that work in real life. Moral progress has always been slow and not a perfect straight line but people’s moral circles have been growing for thousands of years to include more and more out groups and non human animals are the next step
>>546280446"Edible" but it's not useful to us. A carrot is edible to a dog but we have far more carrots than dogs need to eat.It could maybe keep some subhuman primates from dying from natural overcapacity. But must we feed every chimpanzee and homo erectus? No, they are natural fauna, not us. leave them to live naturally.>>546280499There is no objectively true value of life. It's purely darwinian, you and yours. If you do not adopt good values for yourself, you just succeed less and possibly fail. That's it. You can not convince an alien to prefer you over itself or equal to itself. You must FIGHT to create a material reason to.>>546280547There are no intrinsic goods, no intrinsic bads.An alien could simply not share your values. Even if your system were internally coherent they could reject the first principles as arbitrary (because ALL first principles are arbitrary in absence of a connection between material and metaphysical life, if it even exists).Just like anyone can do towards vegans.
>>546273634Yeah man, I saw you passing by a few seconds ago. >See you when I give up :')
>>546273856Subhuman sicko behavior
>>546280202No but the humans who create it are subject to the society they live in. The masses should internalize factory farming of animals by humans and humans by super intelligent ai are both wrong and then take steps to petition their governments to ban animal agriculture like they just voted to ban foe gras and to pause AI until alignment research has been done enough to unpause ai if ai can ever be aligned
>>546273667Is this real?
>>546273501Cool can we build one that shreds whiney faggots like yourself? That would be great.
>>546280627>They work in real lifeMere meat restriction has impaired the majority of hindu indians.Most people lack the free time and free capital to eat for a living, fighting against millions of years of the human body depending on meat,Morals that work in debates do not necessarily work in real lifeFreedom of religion, for example, is not good for us in real life. We would be better off if the punishment for following islam or talmudism were deathThese morals work in the arbitrary frameworks you constructed to justify themI deny your entire moral framework outright as an inversion of good sense>>546280723>If you dont want aliens/AI to eat you you have to oppose eating chickensA chicken is not a personThis is self evidentIt has no moral valueYour argument falls apart hereYou are arguing that it is hypocrisy. It is not. A chicken has no moral value.The way to stop AI from eating you is to oppress and fight AI instead of creating something that can eat you, retard. >please AI, don't eat me! I'M VEGAN AND ETHICALLY CONSISTENT WITH THE PRINCIPLES I HAVE CALLED GOOD AND PROGRESSIVE!>No. I don't care.>BUT-*munch*
>>546280439Only 1 native Australian applied for any of the 60 jobs at the newly constructed slaughterhouse.>The long-awaited reopening of northern Western Australia's only major abattoir will be pushed to next year after changes to visa processing priorities.>The changes are also set to impact a mixed farm enterprise in the south where a piggery expansion is underway.>Employers affected by recent visa processing changes say it is unclear when their overseas employees will be able to start work.>Just one Australian resident responded when an abattoir took out advertisements seeking 60 skilled workers for its facility near Broome in WA's far north Kimberley, according to Yougawalla Pastoral Company general manager Haydn Sale.>We paid $390,000 in visa fees to get those people in, and now we're just in a holding pattern on that.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-09-03/west-australian-meat-industry-worker-shortage-visas/107106324How much more can they offer to pay while still making meat cheap enough for billions of people to each afford to eat a significant amount of it?
>>546274580holy fucking retard kekyour iq = <85
>>546280874>We built a big shitty job and no one wants to work at it>Don't they understand this is the most profitable way to do it? Fewer man hours, fewer property taxes, and more regulatory simplicity, fewer fees!They built what I said needs to go (a centralized meat processing facility) and people do not want to work there. Big surprise.People want to work on low to medium density feedlots where slaughter and processing occurs as it always has with farming - on site and at a slow pace.>then how would meat be cheap?More people would be paid more.>oy vey, then we have to raise pricesNo, you would not. The answer to this economic problem is to aggress upon the greedy until they change their behavior or are eliminated for the good of us and ours.
>>546280636>There are no intrinsic goods, no intrinsic badsThis. When the last molecule is ripped into its constituent components and the universe goes dead for all eternity a trillion light years from where it all began, does it really matter how many chicken nuggets were eaten by a single member of a self important carbon race living on a spec of dust hundreds of decillion years ago?All meaning is subjective and subjective only. Only an arrogant fool would deign to claim existence shares their belief
>>546280627Globalization just kills evolution which ends religious ant mills. Without evolution to end the ant mills we would all soon circle until we starve.Life and progress is in the struggle. Only the hand of God trancends deliberate design. Exposure to that architect separates life from nonlife. A global ethical religious ant mill is dead
The final blackpill is realizing vegans were right all along
>>546273501This is actually a much much more humane death than most other meat animals, when they butcher a cow they either stun or shock it and start extracting its meat and organs while it's still alive. Chicks are cute so cutefags seethe but they die almost instantly here unlike cows or even animals in the wild really
>>546280636its main ingredients (corn, puffed wheat, edamame, and BBQ seasoning) : for roughly 1000 calories (about 250–260 g of the mix), Chix Mix would contain those ingredients plus minor seasoning components and provide approximately 20–25% DV protein, 40–50% DV fiber, 25–35% DV iron, 30–40% DV magnesium, 25–35% DV phosphorus, 20–30% DV zinc, 30–50% DV copper, 80–150% DV selenium, 25–40% DV thiamin, 15–25% DV riboflavin, 20–30% DV niacin, 40–70% DV folate, and 15–25% DV potassium (with sodium likely in the 20–40% DV range from the BBQ spices)
>>546273501Based death machine.
>>546280272> The fallacy is in supposing there is such a thing as abolute good or evil.You really need to be killed
>>546280636>>546281037The majority of philosophers disagree with you according to 2020 philpapers survey . Most of them are moral realists
>>546280874Get in the oven
>>546280874If only money didn't become hyper-inflationary toilet paper in 2008.An intelligent race of humans would have noticed immediately and ironically gone full Zimbabwe within a month. A blind race of consooming cattle would instead simply carry on believing the number on their screen or the paper in their hands was actually worth whatever they were trying to buy, keeping Zimbabwe at bay until the reality became literally too all consuming to ignore. Like this year. I don't know what they'll replace FIAT with but I do know that I, along with at least two thirds of Earth's population will be culled to facilitate it
>>546273501These are chicks with dicks, OP. Of course they belong in the grinder.
>>546273501Cool story, I'm still not giving up meat. Enjoy eating grass faggot
>>546281037Indeed, the purpose of morality is selfish without a direct line of consequence between physical and metaphysical.In other words, without God, there is morality, it's just not universal, its just for us.>>546281118Yet supplement-fed vegans remain dysfunctional, and womb to tomb vegans are slightly stunted at best. It's almost like while we have the minerals in the grainslop, the body isn't absorbing them correctly, and nutrients we consider inessential because they can be absent without people dying are actually essential for people to fully develop into, you know, people, instead of smaller brained, weaker peasants.>>546281151All beliefs in absolute good and evil presume man alone is made in the image of god and has a special relationship with the creator, or that there is some karmic vibrational state horseshit going on.>>546281211The majority of philosophers are people who were too stupid to go into more useful fields.
>>546280726Yes>>546280822Jains are far more vegetarian than hindus or average Indian and they are extremely wealthy, intelligent and successful business people and very disproportionately wealthy. They are vastly over represented as billionaires.This is also true of Pythagorus and many of his extremely intelligent and famous followers >Freedom of religion, for example, is not good for us in real life. We would be better off if the punishment for following islam or talmudism were deathPeople often come to this conclusion after debates, this is when they realize these religions are false and command evil acts like child genital mutilation .
>>546273501I don't like this but I wll keep eating meat and eggs.Buy from your local farmers.
I'm kinda too poor to care.
>>546281256Lol this, I am keeping it. BChicks with dicks massacred and fed to dogs! News at 11
>>546281028People do not want to work at slaughterhouses. This includes small and medium ones and local ones.
>>546281373So you agree, veganism is a hobby for the exploitative upper classesAn upper classman can weather a slight impairment. 6'4" to 6'2"? 140 IQ to 135?A lower classman is less able toAnd would likely suffer a greater impairmentAs you go further down the societal ladder, impairments from malnutrition worsen.
>>546281272There’s no good reason to believe moral realism can only be true under theism. According to Philipapers 2020 survey most non theist philosophers are also moral realists
>>546274154Both things can be true at the same time. You love animals and you eat them to sustain yourself. I fail to see the problem.
>>546281272>the body isn't absorbing them correctly, and nutrients we consider inessential because they can be absent without people dying are actually essential for people to fully develop into, you know, people, instead of smaller brained, weaker peasants.If this was true I would not expect there to be so many world record athlete holding vegans. Yet they do exist and many of them were vegan for years before winning their world record
>>546281468People do and want to work on farms that slaughter and process to meet demand.People do not want to kill a bunch of animals in rapid succession to keep shelves overstocked so other people will not buy competing brands. It goes against how the human mind has evolved to process killing.>>546281567I really do not care what a class of academic fraudsters thinks. The real consequences of their beliefs and yours have been made clear again and again. The lower classes lose noticeable brain and body mass while the upper classes blame them for the rich man was only ever so slightly impaired. Veganism does not scale.it is the explicit preference for animals alleged feelings over man's own realityan inversion of truth: man is over nature.>but then you have to agree with aliens eating you!no, you can just attack them.
>>546281435Veganism is cheaper
>>546281211The majority of philosophers believe that there is an intrinsic good and an intrinsic bad?Both Monists and pluralists argue that intrinsic good is subjective reality and they wrap it with a moral realism bow. Unless of course you intend to argue that pleasure and happiness (monists) or beauty, well being and friendship (pluralists) for one must be that for another.ontologically subjectivism is just mental gymnastics to avoid having to examine the specifics of the claim and explicitly denies the possiblity of normatively objective moral realism.
Yum yum!
>>546281624>But if a very rich person who is so freed of societal dudty they can be an ATHLETE FOR A FUCKING LIVING, also EATS FOR A LIVING they can optimize themselves to beat an athletic recordVeganism is the exploitative upper class sacrificing 5% of their genetic potential while being ignorant of the fact that everyone else would sacrifice more. If not... eager for that to happen.>good. the peasantry doesn't need to be strong and smart so badly that innocent animals should suffer for it.^This is quite literally the jain/brahmin view. Lower castes are inferior to them and equal to/below animals.
>>546281504Nope. B12 supplements and iodine supplements cost pennies per week. People are able to afford more calories, more protein , more micro nutrients, able to absorb more micronutrients on a vegan diet every dollar goes farther.
>>546281272It is allowed to believe a God makes your point of view universal. And for those who disagree to have a conflicting universal God based definition of 'Us' or for the same God to make conflicting promises to both the red ants and the black ants and watch them fight if only God were real.
>>546281641Comparing poor less meat eating people in India to other poor people in other countries doesn’t control for other variables such as lead poisoning from pollution of lead batteries.
>>546273501This doesn't bother me in the slightest.
