I'm not a masculine man. I'm not confident (in fact I'm anxious and scared), I'm sensitive, I don't like to take risks, my peers act like things are simple while everything sounds complicated to me, I'm not carefree nor "invulnerable" or strong. Men in my country have a certain type of attitude when they are friends with another man, acting in a specific way that it just doesn't seems to be natural to me. Speaking of friends, I don't have my own cool circle of friends, nor a single friend to begin with.RNG decided that I'm more sensitive than average and that's how it is, and then there is the lack of the other masculine traits. I don't know if I like that. At the same time that I may have some sort of individuality, I'm different from what I should be. I can't totally fit in when I'm talking with boys and I don't women would like my way of being, at least not romantically. What could happen is that I'd be kind of like the gay friend that they adopt, while not being really gay. And yet I think I'm masculine enough to don't be a good fit to that role. I really don't fit anywhere. I'd like to be more masculine just so I could be totally used to male social dynamics, and, if I'm not masculine enough to women the way I am, I would like to be more masculine insofar as I become desirable to women.Are you a feminine man, anon? Are you masculine? Are you simply a chud confined inside your room? Meanwhile, girls have it easier because being a masculine girl is more acceptable: they are seen as cool or different and they are socially allowed to be that way, while men should be masculine, period.
>>84727008>Men in my country have a certain type of attitude when they are friends with another man, acting in a specific way that it just doesn't seems to be natural to me.I am kind of curious about this. Can you say more about it?I can relate to your post. I feel like a total faggot around masculine guys, especially blue collar ones. But conversely I am not feminine enough to ever be read as gay, despite being a literal faggot, and I don't really get along with feminine gays
>>84727008>Are you a feminine manI guess so? I'm sensitive and calm. I've always gotten along better with girls. I'm pretty open about my feelings and I don't mind being vulnerable.I've got long hair and apart from my jawline pretty feminine features, but I've also been working out for over a year so I'm kind of a mix physically.
>>84727008not being masculine does not make you feminine
>>84727359>Can you say more about it?I would like to but I don't know how to describe it very well. They act with a certain intimacy like they know each other well, it is visible that when they share a bond and that they are "partners". I don't know if it's the same in every country, now I realize it maybe is.>especially blue collar onesOh, it makes sense why.>But conversely I am not feminine enough to ever be read as gay, despite being a literal faggotI see. Are you satisfied with how you are, in relation to the masculine-feminine polarity? Since you don't get along with feminine gays I'd suppose it's good for you that you aren't read as gay.>>84727439That's good to know. Then I think I'm not feminine. I can't be sure, but I know I'm far from being like efeminate gays.
>>84727008yes and im very mentally unwell because of it. im going on 10+ years without an irl male friend, im so thankful for the internet, i wouldnt know any other men without it i think. the alienation is suffocating sometimes
>>84727008Yeah, I can relate. I think I may be a little more naturally masculine than you, but most of those points apply to me.Im shy, quiet, emotional to the point of doing petty feminine things like giving people the silent treatment when they upset me, and generally I just can't relate to any of the super manly men out there. I'm nerdy and weird and will talk for hours about whatever retarded things are on my mind if given the chance. Im very empathetic and get angry or sad when others are upset a lot.But the thing is I'm too masculine to fit in with others like that part of me. I get angry, I stand my ground on my beliefs, I want to protect and provide for others, I fantasize about being able to pin down a woman in bed and dominate her, I don't want to just be a loser sitting in bed all day every day. And more that's probably not immediately coming to mind.I don't fit in anywhere, everyone is either too aggressively manly or too soft and annoying for me to vibe with. I hate it but there's not really much I can do.
>>84728054Oh yeah and I'm anxious and always need to be told what to do. I'm only confident in a small handful of ways (usually my stubborn opinions) and I'm definitely not cool.
Everything I do is masculine, because I'm a man and I'm doing it.
>>84727008It is not possible to be feminine as a man, semantically speaking If men are masculine and women are feminine, then you can only lack or have an abundance of masculinity as a man. Femininity is not something you can ever possess or embody. As an insult, calling a man 'effeminate' or 'feminine' is like calling someone a 'chicken' when we mean to say they're cowardly. You aren't actually a chicken though, you're a human. Even if you listened to hours of ASMR chicken hypno to chickenize yourself, you would still be a human.
https://www.idrlabs.com/gender/test.phpI'm a big fat hairy balding man who is unfortunately heterosexual
>>84727008People have theorized I was gay or transitioning in the past so I guess so
>>84728601I get your point but that's just kinda dumb. You're framing masculinity and femininity as things that can only be true for men and women respectively. But it's not.Men can possess undeniably feminine traits in their personality. And likewise women can possess masculine traits. Everyone knows that some traits and behaviors are indicative of a certain gender. Which is why feminine men get mocked and belittled or masculine women get outcast from their feminine groups.Will a man ever 100% embody everything that makes a woman? No of course not. But can a man be a soft and emotional wimp who gossips a lot and doesn't like traditionally masculine things? Absolutely. And that makes him feminine.We're all human but that doesn't erase categories.
>>84727008I've got a small dick, does that count
>>84729237>Men can possess undeniably feminine traits in their personality. And likewise women can possess masculine traits.No, categorically they can't >Which is why feminine men get mocked and belittled or masculine women get outcast from their feminine groups.It's identical to how chickeny men get mocked and belittled for being chickens. They are not actually chickens though. >But can a man be a soft and emotional wimp who gossips a lot and doesn't like traditionally masculine things? Absolutely. And that makes him feminine.Like I said, semantically speaking, categorically this makes him emasculated, this does not make him feminine. A human can also be cowardly, like a chicken, but he will never be a chickenly in an actual sense though. He doesn't cluck or lay eggs or fly short distances.A human can withdraw socially and be called a turtle. Literally nothing about him is turtleish in actuality, he doesn't have a shell on his back that he withdraws into, but we understand the meaning of the insult is a comment on the degradation of his humanity. A human can be irrationally loyal to something that is not equally loyal to him. Hence we can call him a dog. But he is not actually a dog that wags a tail and does it's doggy duties. If a dog was very dog-like, then we'd call it a good dog. When we call a human a good dog, we mean he's a bad man; nothing about him is actually doggish, it's a human behavior and it's a human doing it. The insult is a comment on his behavior being unbecoming of a human; dehumanized. So hence the emotional gossip wimp who rags on masculinity, is called feminine because he is acting in a way unbecoming of manliness; he is emasculated. He is not feminine in actuality. He is insulted or laughed at because of the garishness and incongruity of something manly, virile, and powerful in essence pretending to be womanly, voluptuous, tender
>>84729493Explain 0.1% of trannies then
>>84729566What is to explain about them that isn't already outlined?Semantically and literally speaking, they are not what they say they are. I've been being a pedant and talking about semantics this entire time, which you said was dumb, and fair enough, but even a dumb statement can be true. (although, a 'dumb statement' is kind of an oxymoron, like a square circle, but I know what you meant by the word dumb. Likewise I also know what people mean when they say a man is feminine or a woman is masculine, objectively speaking they are emasculated and unfeminine, respectively, unless they are making metaphysical belief statements which do not stand up to any philosophical scrutiny, like the Indian Hijra)
>>84727008You don't understand what you're talking about. You're just very weak, cowardly, and anti-social. Masculinity isn't performance, you're whole psyche is being a victim of everything. I bet you never say anything nice about anyone and mean it.
>>84727008Im masculine but Im a bitch ass nigga. Had things not have gone wrong for accidental circumstances like mouth breathing or changing schools and it shocking my developing mind too much I would be somewhat of a Chad. Also nice thread I liked your ramblings.
>>84727008>full head of hair>shave in the am, beard starts growing in in the pm>broad shoulders>20% bf, dad bod basically>7 inchereverything about me screams masculinity but i'm genuinely a big softieI was one of the tallest kids back in school and I still got bullied because I was just a senstive little boy
I don't think you're sensitive, I think you're telling that to yourself to pretend your lack of confidence gives you a tradeoff.It doesn't, stop thinking behaving like a fag is okay, improve or fuck off to >>>/lgbt/ with the other losers.
it's hard to define what being masculine is anymore to be honestan unshakeable confidence? I suppose? But how can anyone be that in this shit life we live
>>84730014>it's hard to define what being masculine is anymore to be honestMaleness Characteristics of being male This is not hard to define
>>84730024Define maleness
>>84730014Responsible, generous, courageous, rational, angry (not hateful), skeptical
>>84727008You're not feminine, you're just higher IQ than the people around you.Things sound simple to them because they don't understand how complex those things actually are.They are only carefree because they've never considered what could go wrong or that it could happen to them.You are a reasonably intelligent person surrounded by drooling brainlets, saying you're not masculine because you don't bang your head on the wall and give yourself brain damage like all the 'manly' men do.Ignorance is bliss, anon. You are not ignorant, unfortunately.
>>84727008I have a lot of this. I detest nearly all sport spectatorship and especially team sports at that. Favorite part of the Olympic is the opening and ending ceremonies. Oddly though, I still have a lot of masculine coded interests. I'm big into simulation video games which is allegedly very male and nerd coded.
>>84730039>maleFrom the Old French adverb/noun "mascle," (masculine, male, adult), which in turn is from the Latin "masculus," (masculine, male, worthy of a man). >-nessword-forming element denoting action, quality, or state, attached to an adjective or past participle to form an abstract nounMan, as in, adult human male, is by late Old English, where before "Wer" and "Wif" was used to differentiate the sexes. I believe it has always been an indefinite pronoun where it could refer to anyone of the human race, such as with "homo" in Latin, but for some reason we preferred "Man" to "Wer."E.g. for Wer and Wif"Werewolf" -> "man-wolf""Midwife" -> "with-woman"
>>84730186>sexesSo a 5'0 guy on estrogen with xy chromosomes is more masculine than a 5'10 woman who takes roids but has xx chromosomes?
>>84729493Okay, I wanted to be more polite and honest. But are you actually fucking retarded? If you call someone a chicken you're not literally calling them a damn chicken, it's a fucking metaphor you midwit.A man doing feminine things isn't even the same because masculinity and femininity exist on a spectrum. They're two sides of human nature and thus not a metaphor. Again calling a man feminine doesn't mean we are literally calling him a woman, but it does mean he's less manly. Being emasculated by definition makes you more feminine as you are being stripped or are devoid of masculinity.If I called someone a scardey cat would you think I'm actually fucking calling them a cat? No, it just means their fear is like that of a cats. So a feminine man possesses behaviors that are like that of a woman's. Aka feminine behaviors.
>>84730223A dog raised by cats is a dog, a cat raised by dogs is a cat. They are funny looking when you meet them though, right?
>>84730223Different anon but the biological definition of sex is based on the gametes an organism produces. If you produce sperm you are male and if you produce eggs you are female. That's literally it. Secondary and tertiary characteristics of sex for humans have been idealized in individuals and spread by cultural influence. This is not to say they are not real and consequential. Men who almost certainly had PTSD were once tarred as cowards, subject to military tribunals and execution by firing squad. As a male panic attack sufferer this shit pisses me off to no end, especially when the women start their fake poor-me routine to extort sympathy out of men.
>>84730285>Okay, I wanted to be more polite and honest.Sir you called me dumb in the first statement you made, I don't think you tell the truth >masculinity and femininity exist on a spectrum. They're two sides of human nature and thus not a metaphor.I think I predicted this here >>84729675>Likewise I also know what people mean when they say a man is feminine or a woman is masculine, objectively speaking they are emasculated and unfeminine, respectively, unless they are making metaphysical belief statements which do not stand up to any philosophical scrutiny, like the Indian Hijra)This is a statement about your metaphysics, which is categorically a belief and is beyond my semantic and linguistic criticism. You are free to believe in the doctrines of Neoliberalism and Feminist Intersectionality. But when we are speaking plain English about plain material reality, I expect you to be able to at least intellectually comprehend what I'm talking about, if you can't, then there's no point in trying to explain it to you.
>>84729781>Masculinity isn't performance,But it literally is. A man is expected to perform a certain way to be masculine. To be reliable and not let others see their weak or emotional side.
>>84730729>But it literally isBut is not. It's upbringing, habits, worldview, and morals. Ask any oilrig worker: they all believe in providing for the wife and children over themselves, walking the walk, and prefer honesty over politeness. It's obviously not performance because men used to do and wear all sorts of shit you'd consider "feminine". It's a ridiculous argument, you're implying masculinity only came into existence recently.
>>84730186Harold had it so fucked. All within a few weeks he had to fend off three invasions, and he almost pulled it off.
>>84730901Performance can mean how a person performs in different areas, not just a superficial performance.
>>84730977So you agree that masculinity has been the same throughout history, and that people want you to BE masculine, not just be able to mog others. Thanks for conceding.
>>84730148I think you're right, anon. I stood out like a sore thumb during my conscription service since my uptake was higher than average and I relied on myself instead of doing what everyone else is doing. I still feel like a faggot as I can't read faces well and can't tell when a female is interested in me. I was shocked how much trouble simple mechanical principles trouble many of my colleagues that caused them to be slow at picking up how to handle firearms. It's crazy how many of them seem to have no mental model of their rifle and don't seem to track or be aware of the state of the chamber of their rifle, causing them to be terrible at gun safety.I'm working at a tiny outfit as an electrical engineer and I keep telling people months in advance that problems will arise when we don't act proactively but I'm bad at talking with a faggy, meek voice, so I get ignored and then have to repair the mess later caused by being reactive instead of proactive. Worst part of this is that I keep thinking that my colleagues will learn from past instances of me predicting shit to go fits up but no, they keep ignoring my proactive approach and we stay in the hole of avoidable, unneccesary work. Very frustrating.I guess you're just buttering me up but it feels good to be seen and not laughed at like usual, so, touche.
>>84727008This isn't femininity it's just anxiety and being sheltered.
>>84727008you are a masculine man by virtue of the fact that you have a cock and balls, xy chromosomes and a man's hormonal profile. everything else is just varying degrees of larping and/or trying really hard. whenever you see faggots with perfectly groomed beards or faggots that inject synthol or take steroids to become as massive as possible, this is usually compensation. there comes a point as a male where you're in danger of making a parody of your own sex, female to male trannies already do this by lampooning a masculine identity. they have a female brain therefore can only approximate a morbid type of roleplay as a man based on what they can see and copy and men who are insecure about their masculinity do this too in a tragic twist.the most "manly" thing you can do is be responsible, reliable, knowledgeable and intelligent and amass wealth, power and influence through competence and demonstrations of competence, if you can't do the latter at least be the former and be someone people come to when they need help, guidance and advice. everything else is just varying degrees of posturing, insecurity and roleplaying.
>>84727008>I don't like to take risks, my peers act like things are simple while everything sounds complicated to me, I'm not carefree nor "invulnerable" or strong.newsflash pal, no one does. a huge part of growing up and "being a man" is doing shit you're scared to do anyway. everyone is fucking terrified of their mortality, risk takers vary between people who make calculated decisions and low impulse control retards who don't know when to take their foot off the gas in a manner of speaking. there is no "right way to be a man," everyone is drifting in a sea of what the fuckism and confusion muddling through life doing the best that they can.
>>84727008i think so. i would say i am good mix of both the archetypes but i think there might be more of the "conventional" feminine traits more.but that dosent mean you wont find masculine traits in me, sometimes i can be the "manliest" person in the room without even noticing>>84728657that was a decent quizand the results were kind of expected
actually nvm the results WERE NOT as expected, i expected a bit of equal percentage
