I don't believe in free will, here's why.When a free will believer sees a homeless person "HAHAHA YOU LAZY EVIL MAN WITH A BAD PERSONALITY. I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!! I HAVE MORE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY THAN YOU. THIS WORLD REWARDS HARD WORK AND FAITH." (So I guess that makes Bill Gates, Elon Musk, George Soros, and Jeff Bezos the hardest working most faithful men in the world?)When a determinist knower sees a homeless person. "There but for the grace of God go I."I can't be part of that free will shit. It's just way too toxic.
I believe in free will because my will is so free it got the fuck away from me hahahaha
I believe in free will because I don't want to be mentally ill which is exactly what you will be if you spend time denying it.
>>85092396>When a free will believer sees a homeless person "HAHAHA YOU LAZY EVIL MAN WITH A BAD PERSONALITY. I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!!You don't believe free will exists because you think it would be unethical if it were real?Do you suppose child abuse and murder and the rape and murder of children also don't exist, because they would be unethical if that were real? When I, someone convinced of free will and of consent existing, see a homeless person on the block, I don't think everything that happened to them was their choice, because obviously not. Neither do I believe that the rich got there because it was their fault, except that they did not say "no" to the wealth opportunities given to them. You only have the freedom to make choices, not the freedom to determine the outcome of those choices. You're mistaking free will for omnipotence. Not that it matters, because it's silly to pretend things don't exist just because they're toxic, but if you don't believe in free will, then how can you still believe in consent? And if you don't believe in consent, then all sex is rape, isn't it? That, or you just think rape doesn't exist. How could I violate your consent, if consent isn't even real in the first place?
>>85092490Just as a little thought experiment imagine two different people. Who would you rather trust? 1. Free will believing NPC who says the only reason they didn't kill someone is because they had to constantly and actively "free will" themselves not to. 2. Determinism knowing chad who simply doesn't have the propensity, proclivity, predisposition, capacity, or capability to commit such an act in the first place. It isn't in their nature. It never even crosses their mind. Determinists aren't saying inside your head you don't experience a decision making process. It can even be super complicated. That's all perfectly compatible with determinism.
>>85092396Literally nothing else in the universe is acausal but we're supposed to be believe human consciousness is just so magically and mystically unique that acausality is possible because it just is.
>>85092396In my experience, people who believe in free will tend to be more successful, those who believe in determinism aren't. Granted it's possible to believe in free will and still fail in life, but believing everything has been preset to make your life suck is going to make your life suck for certain.
>>85092396You do have free will but it's very limited in scope compared to the other things happening in the world. There are still forces outside of your control which have very real consequences that you have to deal with daily. One person can't stop the consequences of the world coming down on him all at once just by saying the right combination of words or doing the right combination of actions. People have free will, but people are weak. It's not a super power that gives you whatever you want.
>>85092396Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are working around the clock, especially the former. And even the shitters like Gates and Soros probably worked a fair amount more than you ever will. Most poor people are in fact poor because they are lazy, stupid and especially irresponsible. There are exceptions both ways, but>ELON MUSK INHERITED AN EMERALD MINE THEREFORE FREE WILL ISN'T REALis not the argument you think it is. If you weren't a total casual normalfag, you'd at least point to nepo babies and politicians as examples of people who genuinely don't work, don't produce anything whatsoever, and still have huge amounts of money and clout.
>>85092541Hunter Biden was a nepo baby and turned into a depressed crackhead.
Perhaps the dumbest philosophical subject.Drop a glass. What does it look like if free will is the case? What does it look like if determinism is the case?Figure this out and then dismiss the subject forever.
>>85092490>someone convinced of free will and of consent existing, see a homeless person on the block, I don't think everything that happened to them was their choiceRather than the tired old determinism debate we could talk about something real, like how boomers who had everything handed to them judge people as "lazy and entitled".Or how most really miserable people (many homeless included, but not all) are actually there because of their mentality and will stay there because of their mentality. Sometimes learned helplessness but this is much overstated, it's more like an identity and tearing it down feels like losing yourself but also means realizing how much you have hurt yourself and others.
>>85092504>1. only reason they didn't kill someone is because they had to constantly and actively "free will" themselves not to.No one makes that argument. Only a sadistic psychopath or someone with a insane amount of intrusive thoughts would think about murder that much. For normal people it would only be relevant in intense situations. He has no reason to tell me this so I think that's true. If he's been ignoring the thoughts for like 20 years though and not killed someone he has a really strong control over it though.>2. simply doesn't have the propensity, proclivity, predisposition, capacity, or capability to commit such an act in the first place.Well i know he would be wrong/lying, he could surely kill in some situation. It's a big suspicious that he would say that. Is he in denial or hiding something? But I would know he will probably be a coward if I need his help.So it depends, if I was something like a soldier, gang member or cop I'd trust 1 more. Just a better guy to have around. For something like a friend, I don't think I'd want to be friends with either
>>85092504>Free will believing NPC who says the only reason they didn't kill someone is because they had to constantly and actively "free will" themselves not to.These two things aren't connected, though. Having free will and pretending it stopped you from killing somebody are two different things. I'd only trust them if they were soldiers who went and actually were put in a situation where killing somebody was a choice.>Determinism knowing chad who simply doesn't have the propensity, proclivity, predisposition, capacity, or capability to commit such an act in the first placeVery untrustworthy. They pretend their nature will just stop them, which is almost as risky as people pretending they choose what they don't.>Determinists aren't saying inside your head you don't experience a decision making process. That doesn't make sense. What do you mean "decision" if there's no free will? There's no decision making process to a determinist, except metahorically. If everything is determined, then you don't "choose" anything.>That's all perfectly compatible with determinism.It's really not. Explain to me where in the pre-detemined decision-making process that a "choice" was made?>>85092569>Rather than the tired old determinism debate we could talk about something real,So, rape of children just isn't real. Got it.>like how boomers who had everything handed to them judge people as "lazy and entitled". Boomers didn't choose to judge people that way. It's just their nature. You can't blame them if you're a determinist. >Or how most really miserable people (many homeless included, but not all) are actually there because of their mentality and will stay there because of their mentality.Yeah, because they pretend they have control over stuff they don't and you think that's what believing in free will is. > realizing how much you have hurt yourself and others.What do you mean you hurt others? You didn't choose your nature. Free will isn't real.
>>85092680>here's no decision making process to a determinist, except metahorically.The decision making process is undeniable. Most of us do it in our head all the time but it's also objectively observable when people make decisions together, weighing pros and cons, rights and wrongs.Determinists don't argue that it doesn't exist (that would be obviously false), they argue that it's an illusion. E.g. the decision you came to was 100% a result of previous events, including the events in the decision process
