Have any of you actually been witness to an ugly man becoming genuinely attractive? I'm not asking about a boy going through puberty, and it being kind to him. I mean a young man becoming physically attractive by way of skincare, hygiene, fashion, haircuts, or even going to the gym and getting strong? Any lifestyle changes at all that have actually benefited someone? (The two exceptions to this are men who've gone through with surgeries, or obese men losing weight, these don't count because most of us may have moral, financial, and other reasoninh to being opposed to invasive surgeries, and most of us unattractive men are not obese in the first place, where going to the gym would do much for us.)By that same token, have any of you actually witnessed a man go from being uncharismatic to charismatic? An unfunny man develop a sense of humor? An idiot becoming intelligent? Have any of you even witnessed a man go from unlikable to likable in any way? I have never witnessed any of these before, but if you ask the average person that is generally opposed to "defeatist attitudes", "incel ideologies", or the "blackpill", you will get all kinds of anecdotes without evidence, that they know a guy that succeeded in these endeavors. With no explanation as to how, to no surprise. I'm trying to think about examples, and am becoming demoralized. I don't believe you can overcome these things. Lately I've taken up sports too, but as someone approaching 30, I know that even with skills that are supposed to be improvable, like my basketball or football (soccer) abilities, I feel that it's far too late and pointless for me. I'd love to be proven wrong, it would give me some hope so that I could apply myself in all of these things. But I feel people who actually believe these things, don't have any actual experiences with it, and merely just assume they do to maintain their "just-world" belief systems.
>>85125052>witness to an ugly man becoming genuinely attractive?yeah, he didn't really change his fashion but going to the gym and not taking steroids made him lose weight and look slim and strong. women don't really dig big muscles. he also started opening up more and talking to people, but this was because of the anti depressants he started taking too.>witnessed a man go from being uncharismatic to charismatic?no, you can become talkative, but charisma is hardly obtainable. it's a mix of different things, though you can become way more likeable by changing your demeanor and doing small little nice things for those around you.>don't have any actual experiences with it, and merely just assume they do to maintain their "just-world"of course, most normies will tell you you're doing something wrong, because they can't understand people doing things right and still failing. truth is, life isn't kind to everyone. we have to try our best with the hand we're dealt, but sometimes that "best" isn't enough.now, i'll tell you something. i've seen ugly men with girlfriends. they weren't the most attractive, but they were kind and had decent lives. most people are average looking. even on r9k, i'd say most people are better looking than the average man (or woman), but they just like putting the blame on things they can't control, like height. it's true height is a factor in dating, but it is not the only one. dating is really retarded for everyone, technology really fucked everything up.
>>85125052yeah me. I like to larp different personalities every so often. Usually when I jump to a new job.
>yeah, he didn't really change his fashion but going to the gym and not taking steroids made him lose weight and look slim and strong.So he was fat before? >women don't really dig big muscles.Yeah which is why the gym is pointless unless you are fat. >no, you can become talkative, but charisma is hardly obtainable. it's a mix of different things, though you can become way more likeable by changing your demeanor and doing small little nice things for those around you.No. Any examples of changing your demeanor? If you consciously do things to your demeanor, you just appear conscious and awkward. >now, i'll tell you something. i've seen ugly men with girlfriends. they weren't the most attractive, but they were kind and had decent lives. most people are average looking. even on r9k, i'd say most people are better looking than the average man (or woman), but they just like putting the blame on things they can't control, like height. it's true height is a factor in dating, but it is not the only one. dating is really retarded for everyone, technology really fucked everything up.These ugly men are usually charismatic, or perhaps just naturally have lower inhibitions, again something I've yet to see someone change for themselves. I often see a lot of people share these anecdotes of these ugly men, but chances are they're from small towns with small town women who can't or don't know how to leave their towns for some better guys. Small town men live life on easy mode, they just go with the flow, and they end up with families. >>85125149I can tell you (specifically you), don't have real awareness.
>>85125052foid here. i did comp sci for a few years when i was young. kept close with a friend group from there. one of them, bless his heart, wasn't the best looking. like 4 years out randomly off looking super hot?he got a nice haircut and better clothes. super respected the work he did and he kept up with it for like 2 months and settled into normal looking guy. just the hair, style, and confidence randomly made him looked nice. he came out as gay in this time though so keep this in mind. but it def appealed to women still imo not super fem at all
>>85125191Most of us moids have progressively shittier hairlines but thanks, foid.
>>85125052i went from an autistic lanky skeleton to jacked extrovert over the span of 5 years, starting at 20.i went from a 60 kilo skeleton to 90 kilo at 13% bodyfat benching 120kg for reps and getting compliments on my physique from young women and men.I fixed my slouching posture i got from playing world of warcraft every day all day from ages 8 to 18. I started a skincare routine and started seeing a dermatologist to fix my acne scars. I got a haircut and maintained it every 2 weeks. I started doing martial arts and swimming. I joined hobby groups - dancing, language classes, choirs. I started going to church every Sunday.I went from being an autist constantly frowning and scowling and looking at his phone to making friends with random strangers in trains in foreign countries, helping grandmas on the street. Very very slowly and gradually.I remember when i locked my phone in a drawer to bore myself to force myself to socialize. I walked up to a guy at my choir and struck up a conversation. I was anxious as fuck but i realised he was as well. Fast forward 2 years and now we are best friends, going on vacations together etc.I'm still a kissless virgin because I'm still afraid of asking women out, even though i can obviously see they are into me, but apart from that my life is 1000% better than before.
>>85125052haircuts
There is no such thing as 'an ugly man becoming attractive'.An ugly man is a man with no money.Looks, personality, height, hobbies.... it's all moot the only thing women find attractive is money.The difference between an ugly man and an attractive man is a good credit score and owning a home.Thinking a good haircut, clothes or et cetera will make you attractive to women is a joke. If you want to be attractive have a nice car.
>>85126511Samefagging here but if anybody wants to disagree with me. They have to cope with the fact that Elon Musk and Epstein have like 20 kids each while their gay little hobby gets them nothing.I guess Wlon just has a good personality. Nothing to do with him making more in 0.0001 seconds than you make in a lifetime.World's oldest profession boys.
>>85126511This, good luck having a relationship when you can't drive. Social status is what really matters, I have been called attractive by guys, women, even girls in real life but I have NEVER been able to even know a member of the opposite sex irl
yeah, meat my peak weight when I was 21 i was 98kg (216lbs) and looked horrible, now im 75kg (165lbs) at 184cm (6'), started going to the gym, shaved my disgusting pube beard, started taking better care of my hair and going to a barber who actually knows what hes doing, using sunscreen and cleanser and stopped eating processed garbage feel better than ever
>>85126531still no gf though haha
yeah, many times I saw a dorky teenager (after puberty) become a total Chad a few years later, losing weight or the "skinnyfat" look, getting more muscle tone and a stronger jaw, also getting a better haircut and clothing and not being cringe all the timeit is difficult, if you are totally socially ostracized, as many boys are, normies are evil and will humiliate a dork and actually literally hate them and try to harm them just because they don't find him attractive, but it is important you face this evil, just remember when you are a chad that these people would turn on you in a heartbeat if you were ever a little depressed and withdrawn, they won't care about what is ailing you, even if your mother died or something, they will just be disgusted by you and that's it, the only people you can really trust are the moral rule following autists like Terry Davis, these are the only people who recognize that you are a conscious being like themselves not just an entity in their perceptions of the world
>>85126541>normies are evil and will humiliate a dork and actually literally hate them and try to harm them just because they don't find him attractivewhen I was going through trying to improve myself I distinctly remember one time walking out the pharmacy with some skin care products and 2 girls saw me on the way back home and said 'who hurt you' and started laughing its pretty crazy how cruel some people can be
>>85126559Lmfao that's actually the funniest story I've heard today. Keep it up.
>>85126559in situations like that you have to (and have every right to) get confrontational. No nedd to yell or lose your temper, but instead os lowering your head and shuffling away, turn to the bullies and confront them. "what do you mean?" I had a similar thing happen to me when i started self improving, one of my bullies was at the gym while i was working out and he tried fucking with me "what is that ugly towel you're using, is that a fucking beach towel?" and i just walked up to him and said "fucking grow up, youre 19 dude". In these situatuons they are the losers. Make them know it. I find that what works best is pointi g out to them that they are acting like 12 year olds. And that you are embarrassed for having to deal with them in public.
>>85126559It is not what they say more the fact they felt the need to say it. They don't poke fun at every stranger they come across, something about you sets them off and escaping that is extremely difficult.Normies can detect a notnormy very easily, and they act like you're the bad guy because of it. You tried to fool them into thinking you are normal so they wouldn't treat you like a subhuman. How dare you! Positively kafkaesque.
>>85126559> 2 girls saw me on the way back home and said 'who hurt you'Meaning what? I know the phrase but I don't get it in the context of blurting it out at a stranger.
>>85126559m.. maybe they thought a hot bimbo scratched your back with her fingernails like love scenes in a movie an.. and they thought that was what the skin products were for, th.. they thought you were a player anon! way to go anon!
>>85126559>move to new city for university >dreaming of how my real life will start now>the amazing things my future holds>first few days there>walking down the street >car slows down next to me>2 guys 1 girl inside >"Are you McLovin?">what?>never seen the film. Don't get the reference >"Are you McLovin haha">huh?>"Nevermind lool haha" >drive away>Google it >a character from film known for being ugly
>>85125052This generally doesn't happen. Attractiveness is genetic. What can happen is an otherwise attractive person with one or two ugly features that can be corrected with surgery for instance, or someone attractive who is simply fat and unkempt. Nobody can "become attractive" they just get the money to fix their crooked nose or lose weight or whatever minor easily fixable issue they have.
>>85126496I can already tell you were already decent looking. Probably a tall white guy. And you moved heaven and earth *and still* couldn't get a girl. That's blackpilling for me.
>>85126559>>85127633If I had a button that killed all women and chads instantly, I would press it with zero hesitation.
