BILLIONS of 1 day old chicks are put on conveyor belts leading to BLENDERS every single yearMillions of chicks are killed every year this way in countries like United States United Kingdom Canada Australia Belgium the Netherlands Spain etcIf an animal is living a mostly bad life suffering massively in a factory farm and experiencing little wellbeing then its wrong to breed them into existenceIf an animal is living a mostly good life perhaps on a pasture then its wrong to cut their mostly good life short by executing them when theyre a healthy teenagerWhy take a utilitarian view of non humans but take an inalienable rights view towards humansAn individual consumer choosing to purchase or boycott animal products is personally responsible for extra chicks being killed or spared If you are not vegan you are personally causing this to happen to more animals heres proofhttps://philarchive.org/rec/MCMAIOhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brKhhZlUoOc Only first few minutes of this video are relevanthttps://benthams.substack.com/p/the-causal-inefficacy-objection-isAnd the comments and back and forth of this for any objections you may have to the efficacy of individual boycott of real meat which have already been debunked https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/1otuhqv/individual_boycott_of_meat_does_matter/
>>85251016Good thing the EU got rid of this gruesome act.
>>85251016A part 2 of the op video
I like dino nuggies and you cannot stop me from eating them.
Animals are for people to use. It's the circle of life.
>>85251019>>85251016>Millions of chicks are killed every year this way in countries like United States United Kingdom Canada Australia Belgium the Netherlands Spain etcBelgium, the Netherlands and Spain are in the eu Also even in countries where it is banned they can still import animal products from countries with horrible animal welfare laws
>>85251016i don give a fuh nga fuh those little ngas
>>85251016Don't care. I'm still going to eat chicken.
>>85251032https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTraitNaming 'food chain/naturality' to morally justify something is an appeal to nature logical fallacy.Just because something is natural, doesn't make that something OK/good/ideal/optimal/justified.There are many things that are natural that people do and that are not morally OK. Simply naming a few of them should be enough to demonstrate how 'natural' is irrelevant to morality.Is raping OK, because it's natural?What about fighting for territory? Out ancestors fought for territory.Is making your child live in a cave without medicine good, because it's only natural to do so?And so on.If 'food chain' is a justification of the interlocutor/s' harm and consumption of animals, then they should also be fine with other animals eating us, and shouldn't want to intervene when a human is being eaten, nor be wanting to protect against predators that are above us in the food chain - which is obviously not the case.P1. X being weaker/lower in the food chain than Y makes it morally OK for Y to eat/harm X.P2. Humans are weaker and lower in the food chain in nature than lions.C1. It's morally OK to allow lions to eat/harm humans in nature.P1. X being weaker/lower in the food chain than Y makes it morally OK for Y to eat/harm X.P2. Humans are weaker and lower in the food chain than super-intelligent aliens/AI.C1. It's morally OK for super-intelligent aliens/AI to eat/harm humans.'Food chain' often ends up being a case of 'might makes right', where actions are morally justified as long as a 'stronger' being inflicts harm upon a weaker one.This is laughably absurd, as reductio ad absurdum shows how insane this argument is.P1. X being weaker than Y makes it morally OK for Y to harm X.P2. Baby humans are weaker than adult humans.C1. It's morally OK for adult humans to harm baby humans.
>>85251016How else do i get protein? I'd quit eating chicken if another food had that amount of protein.
>>85251016This just made me hungry OP.
>>85251034I guess not EU-wide but in Germany.And the laws in Germany are pretty autistic about these types of things so I doubt that they're imported.
>>85251052Textured vegetable protein Hemp seeds Pea protein powder or rice protein powder if poor
>>85251016i wish i could just hunt for food like nature intended, this makes me uncomfortable
>>85251056Theyre really notTheres plenty of exceptions in the laws allowing for things like mutilation without anesthetic or gestation crates for weeks
>>85251016They're conscious but are they sentient?
>>85251078The animal protection laws are quite strict in Germany. I'd know.
>>85251066I do think that, while there's nothing wrong with eating meat, we should be giving animals on farms a decent life, and make their deaths and quick and painless as possible.
You ever notice that the people who are outraged that anyone would ever kill a chicken are always the same people who steadfastly defend abortion?
>>85251109Yeah, the hypocrisy from vegans is a non-starter for me.
>>85251109>>85251109False. Heres two vegans Not all vegans support abortionhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkH3vrevU9o [Open]Abortion pills which can be easily obtained and ordered online work to to 14 weeks legal in all fifty statesThe earliest case for which I believe the precautionary principle should hold was around 43-45 days. Which comes out to be 6.1-6.4 weeks.The fetal brain begins to develop around 3-5 weeks gestation. So I am okay with abortions prior to that timeframe.It's hard to say what the levels of sentience equate to at each week. But I wouldn't not assume this is a miniscule amount of sentience. Many EEG brain patterns observed in fetal brains as early as 6.1-6.4 weeks ( high voltageslow waves with superimposed fast activity) are comparable to mature birds, mature frogs, mature rabbits and the mature marmot. We can even observe sleep spindles in the fetal brain this early.Does this prove the same degree of sentience? No. Does this give us reason to take the precautionary principle with respect to this degree of sentience? YesPro life Christians are some of the biggest supporters of abortion because they believe mothers should never be held criminally liable for the deaths of their own unborn children which is why its legal in all 50 states and Poland
>>85251016At least they don't suffer, it is an immediate death. I wish when I die I could die painlessly like this.
>>85251060Death for me, thanks
>>85251086mutilations without anesthesia are still explicitly written into the law. The German Animal Welfare Act carves out exemptions for procedures including the docking of tails of piglets under four days old or lambs under eight days old, and the grinding down of corner teeth of piglets if this is indispensable for the protection of the dam and the litter-mates. In practice, this exemption is used heavily as of mid-2026, figures for routine tail docking hit 95% to 100% in top producers like Germany, despite an EU-wide rule in principle against routine docking. Animal Legal & Historical CenterCEPSGestation/farrowing crates: also accurate that sows can currently be confined for weeks at a stretch. Two separate rules are relevant:Individual gestation stalls are permitted for roughly the first four weeks after insemination (an EU-wide allowance Germany follows), before sows must move to group housing.Farrowing crates used to confine a sow through birth and while nursing are still legal under the old system today. Germany's 2020/2021 reform phases this out gradually: breeding units must convert to full group housing with at least 5 m2 of space per sow by February 9, 2029, and from February 9, 2036, farrowing pens with a minimum area of 6.5 m2 and a maximum confinement period of five days will be mandatory. Until those deadlines hit, farms can keep operating under the current rules, meaning a sow can still be crated for the full farrowing/lactation period commonly several weeks right now.
>>85251079Explain what you mean by sentient? Pigs seems to be able to pass a modified mirror test and posses self recognition
>>85251016this is why i stopped eating eggs and chicken. its beef, onions, and the occasional fish for me now.
>>85251156Well, I don't eat pork to begin with.
OP, I have an eating disorder. I basically only eat chicken tenders. Without chicken tenders, I will die.
>>85251166>mfw i just read that lots of male cows are killed at birth tooFUCK
>>85251175>I have an eating disorder. I basically only eat human placentas. Without a constant supply of human placentas I will die, thus I must continue kidnapping enslaving and raping women
>>85251016I have eaten five eggs today. Love me eggs
>>85251172Eggs: caged housing for laying hens is only being phased out, with a full ban taking effect January 2026 and hardship cases getting until 2029.Chicken meat: Fast-growing broiler breeds that reach slaughter weight in about six weeks at the cost of leg deformities and heart strain remain fully legal to raise. Crowding is legal too: rules allow stocking densities up to 42 kg/m under exceptional conditions, far above the roughly 11 kg/m that food-safety scientists' own recommendations say broilers need to rest and move properly.
>>85251172>>85251279Castrating male lambs under four weeks old and docking lambs' tails under eight days old including by rubber ring, which cuts off blood flow until the tail dies and drops off can legally be done without anesthesia.
>>85251172Beef The same law permits dehorning cattle without anesthesia up to six weeks old and castrating male cattle without anesthesia up to four weeks old. Separately permanent tethering of cattle is still legal nationwide roughly 1.1 million German cattle are tied up about half of them year round with no outdoor access at all. The government has only promised to end tethering within ten years as of a 2021 pledge so no actual ban is in force. Milk Immediate cow calf separation is standard and completely unregulated most German dairy farms take calves from their mothers within 24 hours of birth with no legal minimum contact period required. Tethering above hits dairy cows hard too and low value male dairy calves are typically sold cheaply or exported very young. Fish Fish sit outside Germanys core humane slaughter protections the laws key pain elimination requirement applies specifically to warm blooded animals. On top of that anesthetic substances legally cant be used to stun or kill food fish so producers rely on manual blows to the head or electric current methods that are common for carp in Germany but arent reliably verified to knock the fish out before slaughterImported animal products Foie gras production has been illegal in Germany since 1972 but importing and serving it is not restaurants routinely buy foie gras made abroad by force feeding legally sidestepping the domestic ban entirely. Germany also tightened live export rules in 2023 but exporters can still route animals through other EU countries before re exporting them onward and once outside the EU the animals have no welfare protection at allTurkey Beak trimming is nominally banned outright yet it's still routine farmers can get case by case hatchery approval to trim poults beaks by certifying its indispensable to prevent feather pecking and cannibalism even though the same practice was voluntarily dropped for laying hens back in 2017
>>85251016Is this a bot? It's wild to me a real human being cares this much about animals but is shouting into the 4chan void. Like my nigga we are still going to eat chicken tenders and drink coke.
That's why I own fish and reptiles and birds instead of mammals. the dog and cat food industry is insane.It sucks having to kill mice for my snake but everyone else eats bugs and vegetables.
>>85251279>>85251297>>85251331There are labels that hint at the quality of life the animal lived.
>>85251339There was a genuine vegan autist spammer who was here 10ish years ago who would bait people with innocuous questions then derail threads with this kind of stuff.Probably isn't that guy, but I enjoy the effort.
>>85251016>Why take a utilitarian view of non humans but take an inalienable rights view towards humansInalienable rights don't exist. You have a right to whatever you can secure through labor, cooperation, or violence. The rest is just fiction.
>>85251016I agree OP, I've been vegan for 8 years. Everyone should do it.
>>85251016I've been waiting for you to post to ask you about working animals. Factory farming is clearly evil but what about pony rides? Is it unethical for animals to work for humans at all?
>>85251016>we should extand moral framework made to regulate human activity to animals because... we just should okay!
>>85251552Substitute in a trait equalized human (cant reason etc) and ask yourself
>>85251579The reason is name the trait https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait#My_Apathy.2FNihilism
>>85251403Level 5 ("Bio") is the EU-organic tier - legally the strictest of the five, but "strictest" still leaves real gaps. Because only the EU Organic Regulation (2018/848) contains any animal-welfare rules at all among Germany's food labels, it's a genuine step up from levels 1-4. But researchers at the European Institute for Animal Law & Policy have documented a set of procedures and conditions that remain fully legal and commonly practiced even on certified-organic farms:Mutilations without anesthesia in practiceCastration of piglets and male calves, dehorning/disbudding of cattle, and beak-trimming of chicks (in their first 3 days) are all still permitted under organic rules. The regulation requires that pain from these procedures be reduced through anesthesia and/or analgesia, but the rules stay vague on which drugs or methods must actually be used, and existing research suggests these procedures remain relatively common on organic farms. One widely used method - rubber-ring (band) castration of calves - is popular precisely because it's fast and doesn't require a vet, even though studies show calves castrated this way experience pain for weeks or months, even with the best available pain control.Cow-calf separationSeparating calves from their mothers, generally within hours of birth, is standard and fully allowed under organic standards - despite evidence that both cow and calf find this distressing, especially once any bond has formed.No real cap on transportOrganic rules only vaguely require that transport duration be "minimized"; aside from banning tranquilizers and electric prods during loading, organic animals are transported under the exact same rules as conventional ones, which permit long-distance hauling. There's no organic-specific hour limit - some legal scholars have proposed an 8-hour cap, but it doesn't exist yet.
>>85251644>>85251403Slaughter is standard industrial slaughterStunning before killing is required (an ECJ ruling closed the religious-exemption loophole for organic meat specifically), but beyond that, organic animals go through the same slaughterhouses and methods as conventional ones - there's no organic-specific slaughter standard.Density limits that still allow real crowdingA single organic poultry house can hold up to 3,000 laying hens in one compartment, and total usable floor area for fattening poultry can reach 1,600 sq m per unit. That's much better than intensive conventional housing, but it's still a lot of birds in one barn.Feed and weaning practices are largely unregulatedFeed-restriction practices used across the industry for economic or health reasons remain essentially unregulated under organic rules, and for dairy calves the regulation only requires milk-feeding for three months without specifying feeding methods, frequency, or volume.Hatchery separation for chicksAlmost all organic chicks are raised without access to a mother hen due to the industry's segmented breeding/production supply chain, which research links to more fearful chicks and to feather-pecking that remains widespread in organic flocks
>>85251403Lamb (sheep)Tail-docking of lambs and castration remain legal under organic, case-by-case, generally done young via rubber-ring methods that don't legally require anesthesia in the first days of life - despite evidence (cited above for calves) that band methods can cause pain lasting weeks, not just during the procedure itself.
>>85251403Cow (beef)Dehorning/disbudding remains legal case-by-case, done without mandatory local anesthesia plus analgesia together (only "anesthesia and/or analgesia," which leaves a real gap). Long-distance transport to slaughter is legal with no organic-specific hour cap.
>>85251403TurkeyWorth flagging on its own: turkeys have no EU species-specific welfare directive at all - unlike laying hens, broilers, pigs, or calves, they're covered only by the vague general farming directive. Organic rules apply the same generic poultry provisions (flock-size and space limits) used for all poultry, without turkey-specific standards. A 2026 EFSA scientific opinion flagged ongoing welfare problems in turkey production including flock thinning (repeated partial catching of a flock at different ages, which is highly stressful), routine mutilations, and feed restriction - none of which organic certification specifically addresses beyond the general poultry rules.
>>85251606Imagine two worlds>1. A utopia for humans around the globe, where war, disease and poverty have all been eradicated, but factory farming is ten times bigger>2. Our world but everybody is vegan and factory farming is abolishedI think thinking world 2 is better because "less sentient life suffers" is absurd because I simply cannot imagine giving animals serious moral weight.
>>85251403FishThis is arguably the weakest link in the whole Bio system. The organic aquaculture rules technically require that slaughter methods render fish immediately unconscious before death, but the underlying EU slaughter regulation has no species-specific stunning standards for most fish, so enforcement is inconsistent. Investigations of EU fish farms (organic and conventional alike) have documented fish left conscious and thrashing after ineffective electrical stunning in ice slurry, and some still conscious during processing and packaging. A 2017 European Commission study found that stunning of sea bass was only taking place in the EU on an experimental basis, with commercial practice not reliably rendering them insensible to pain. Crustaceans and cephalopods (where farmed) have essentially no legal welfare protection at slaughter at all - boiling live is standard.
>>85251693More suffering and more rights violations happen to factory farmed animals than humans, but more suffering and rights violations happen to wild animals then both of the former combined. Most people already do give animals serious moral weight as evidenced by things like polls, ballot referendums and jury nullification acquittals of open rescuers
>>85251016ven if we give weight to the suffering of animals, that particular practise isn't that bad. The chick only suffer for a brief moment. You can't say that the morally wrong thing happening is the fact that they die if you are arguing for them to have never been born.
>>85251644>>85251654>>85251677>>85251686>>85251692>>85251698So long as improvements are made to the lives of farm animals I'm willing to support it. It's a slow and arduous road that can only be changed with the decision of the consumer. By buying the product with the labels of higher quality you are indirectly already helping with that as farmers see that the trend shifts towards a more animal caring consumerbase.
>>85251720most people have incoherent beliefs
>>85251743>You cant say that the morally wrong thing happening is the fact that they die if you are arguing for them to have never been born.Its not morally wrong for someone to die its morally wrong to murder someone. I dont just give weight to their suffering I give weight to their rights. I can be against raping women and also against aborting 3 month old fetuses conceived in rape
>>85251109"Life" to some people is the same as "conscious". An unborn baby is not conscious, it has less autonomy and perceptive capabilities than baby chickens. So, unironically, you are the evil one. You're okay with living, conscious creatures being subject to torment, but not okay with a 2 week old embryo that doesn't have a brain being aborted. You fundamentally misunderstand what is "living" because your theory of mind is not as developed.
>>85251754>So long as improvements are made to the lives of farm animals I'm willing to support it.Being vegan and not buying any animal products improves the lives of farm animals by preventing them from being bred into existence and subject to having rubber bands put above their testicles until they fall off. >It's a slow and arduous road that can only be changed with the decision of the consumer.Yes>By buying the product with the labels of higher quality you are indirectly already helping with that as farmers see that the trend shifts towards a more animal caring consumerbase.You are also paying for animal abuse. Buying vegan food and boycotting animal products also helps farmers see a trend towards a more compassionate consumer base without the animal abuse. Ive already posted plenty of evidence in the OP about the effect a single individual consumer has by boycotting
>>85251757Yes and if they were more internally consistent they would be vegan
>>85251817or if they stopped caring about animals
>>85251764>I can be against raping women and also against aborting 3 month old fetuses conceived in rapeI find that point of view very arbitrary if it isn't grounded in some metaphysics.If you don't believe in souls, fucking with a condom or getting an early abortion is basically equivalent for me.
>>85251826They could do that and try and say they only care about humans but then they could be pushed to define human and maybe they would say something like produce viable offspring with me but this would lead to reductios like it being okay to factory farm beings from another planet that look exactly like humans but evolved differently so they can not produce viable offspring with earth humans as they are a different species This has been demonstrated many times in name the trait debates
>>85251845I believe 3 month old fetuses have a significant chance of having a significant amount of consciousness.
>>85251806But being vegan is retarded though. Humans need the nutrients coming from animals. The alternative diets that vegans propose are unreasonable, expensive and equally harmful for the environment. Veganism is just a product of luxury and the average person/family can't afford the life of a vegan who buys products from across the globe.
I'm vegetarian now, slowly switching to veganism. Even giving my dog vegan food, though idk if that's really ethical, I'm doing that slowly because I don't want to fuck up his nutrition. I don't think the "animals have rights" is true because I don't believe in inalienable rights for humans or animals; humans take actions based off emotions and use morals and virtues or whatever framework they want to justify their retarded actions. The US government knows this so they HEAVILY subsidize meat, because they know that if consumers paid the price meat and dairy actually cost to produce there would be riots.If you want more vegans you are not going to cause a major change by convincing them logically because when it comes to food people don't think logically. The people that are going to be convinced to be vegan with logic probably already are vegan or don't need much nudging to become one.
Does it mean you're in favour of milk and eggs if the animals are allowed to live comfortably to about the age they would die in the wild?
>>85251016Oh no! Animals die horribly in nature through parasitism or being eaten alive all the time. An instant death in a meat grinder is much more merciful in comparison.>Why take a utilitarian view of non humans but take an inalienable rights view towards humansBecause they aren't us. Simple as. This universalist self-sacrificing mercy to all living things is how you end your species.>If you are not vegan you are personally causing this to happenWe were personally causing this to happen for 200,000 years, all that's changed is that post-industrial revolution the scale of butchering animals increased and you aren't personally exposed to it regularly anymore because of the division of labor which is why you view it as gruesome instead of normal.Animals exist for us to eat them and we exist to be eaten by animals. Plants also react to stimuli, who's to say they aren't conscious in some way that we aren't aware of yet because it's beyond our ability to comprehend? So now eating plants is just as horrible, are you going to starve to death then? Moralizing over your food is brain-dead faggot loser shit.
>>85251855the trait could be an IQ over 50 and we could kill two bird with one stone and get rid of ressource draining retard at the same time.
>>85251862>a significant amount of consciousnessall depends on what you consider having a "significant amount". I'm pretty sure ants and other insect have some level of counsciousness but I wouldn't give their life moral weight on their own.
>>85251016We are natural predators and cannot be healthy without consuming meat. This will never change no matter how much you repeat this vegan propaganda.And if you hate factory farming so much, you can buy meat from local farmers who don't engage in those practices. Your meat will be healthier, too.>But it's too expensive wahhhhhIf you aren't willing to pay a little extra to stop funding factory farming then you don't practice what you preach and no one should take you seriously.
>>85251877This is entirely factually untrue. Meat consumption by nature is at least 10x as energy intensive as plant based alternatives (i'm talking whole grain foods not lab grown bullshit or whatever). On top of that, bovine consumption is even worse for the environment because of the methane they produce. The only reason why meat is cheaper is because it is a heavily subsidized industry; it allows the poor to think they are rich with their diets (when in fact a diet heavy in animal proteins will actively kill you faster than a plant based one via excessive isoleucine intake and saturated fats). In countries where meat isn't subsidized like crazy, guess what, eating vegetables if fucking cheaper. Every nutrient, every amino acid is available to be consumed from plants with the exception maybe of heme iron, but you can just eat fucking mussels if you're anemic or whatever, or if you're not anemic it's not even a problem to begin with.
>>85251927But if someone hit you on the head and your iq dropped below 50 would you want to lose all your rights so you could be tortured to death in medical experiments like a mouseIs the trait once had a iq over 50Most people are not on board with this so if they must go vegan or kill mentally disabled humans I think I know which way a lot of people would go
>>85251956>But if someone hit you on the head and your iq dropped below 50 would you want to lose all your rights so you could be tortured to death in medical experiments like a mouseyes sure why not>Is the trait once had a iq over 50God no, I don't want to waste ressource caring for half brain deads 90 years old
>>85251944Okay but veganism is about extending human rights to trait equalized animals So giving rights to all animals who are at least as conscious intelligent able to suffer experience wellbeing etc as the least conscious human I care about like 3 month old human fetus
>>85251060You will never be able to absorb enough protein from plants to maintain a healthy physique. There's a reason why all vegans are either fat or emaciated.
>>85251016>>85251021everyone needs to go vegan
>>85251922>Why take a utilitarian view of non humans but take an inalienable rights view towards humans>Because they aren't us. Simple as. This universalist self-sacrificing mercy to all living things is how you end your species.But thats just ingroup preference. Why draw the line at species instead of race or sexWomen like animals can not enforce their own rights
>>85251016It's just a clump of cells chud
>>85251998>But thats just ingroup preferencewhat's wrong with that
>>85251922The Cambridge declaration of consciousness and New York update to it totally agree with meall those Cognitive neuroscientists, neuroanatomists, neurophysiologists, neuropharmacologists, computational neuroscientists, ethologists, behavioral biologists, theoretical physicists, philosophers, comparative psychologists, evolutionary biologists, neurologists, animal welfare scientists, legal scholars, professors of law, public law and human rights lecturers, computer scientists, veterinary professors, environmental studies scholars, chemical and biological engineers, linguists, and chief executive officersAgree that all birds and mammals have a significant amount of consciousnessThey can suffer a lotThey can also experience wellbeinglike me
>>85252006Discriminating solely on the basis of species It leads to absurdities Advanced outer space aliens of a different species than us who are far smarter than us and more technologically advanced choosing to factory farm human beings and you are supposed to believe there is nothing wrong with it But most people do believe the aliens would be doing something immoral
>>85252022>Advanced outer space aliens of a different species than us who are far smarter than us and more technologically advanced choosing to factory farm human beings and you are supposed to believe there is nothing wrong with itKek, nta but let's examine your absurd hypothetical.Would what those aliens are doing be "wrong?" From our perspective, yes, because we would be the ones being preyed upon. From theirs, obviously not. That's exactly how in-group preference works. And you cannot transcend or subvert species preference because it is built into your biology. Caring about a random cow more than other humans is a sign of mental illness.All of this, of course, is granting the idea that such an alien species exists and would factory farm humans, both of which are absurd.
>>85251016What kind of beanz y'all niggaz like? For me, it's black beanz.
>>85251948The production of plants also harms the environment by the way through fertilisers. Most of the plants that are promoted and consumed by vegans are imported from across the world meaning their carbon footprint is equally bad as someone who eats meat locally. The diet is healthier and more natural for humans. There is a reason why our appendix shrank and became essentially useless. Living long lives is not the goal but a healthy one. You see people who are vegan being malnourished while people who are omnivorous not.
>>85252022>Discriminating solely on the basis of speciesNot doing this also leads to absurdities like the shrimp wellfare project.
>>85251973that dysgenic jew will live to 120
>>85252049Most professional philosophers according to the 2020 philpapers are moral realists so most experts would be likely to argue What the aliens are doing is stance independently wrongMost religious people would agree
>>85252055Billions of adult chickens are killed every year in the USA and almost all of the food fed to them is technically edible by humans. All those crops grown and wasted feeding chickens multiple pounds of grains just to get a single pound of meat or eggsMeat eaters are wasting fertilizer not vegans
>>85252061Basically all views have some amount of reductio ad absurdums. Its about picking the view with the least amount of least severe reductio ad absurdumsAlso not all vegans support that charity some think it is a waste of money Example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0MHshBjRTX4
>>85252072Philosophers are biased because admitting that what they study like morality are inherently arbitrary concepts would make their work meaningless.>Most religious people would agreemost religious people think God has the right to send humans to hell because he is wiser and more powerful than anybody
>>85252055This woman is decades old and has been vegan her entire life including in the womb https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QJZzIyVtqhM
>>85252087Except that vegan products come from the rainforest that's being burned down and grown on lands that are not even suitable for the crops. It doesn't help that the farmers don't know how to properly fertilise in those lands which leads to overfertilisation which harms nature even more.
>>85252107>Basically all views have some amount of reductio ad absurdums. Its about picking the view with the least amount of least severe reductio ad absurdumsthan it's not sufficiant to point out one reductio ad absurdums, you have to prove that your point of view has least amount of it, which you haven't done.
>>85252110I do not think that follows A chef can find his career meaningful even if he admits that taste preference is subjective and arbitrary
>>85252118Exception to the rule. You see more vegans being unhealthy than omnivores.
>>85252128Except philosopher often do not like to think themselves as simply making interesting though experiment.
>>85252120Deforestation is done for more beef You just give vague platitudes like vegan products That means nothing
>>85252134BMI studies and life expectancy like Adventist health compare large groups
>>85251016I hope when the boomers die off we can ban factory farming but knowing gen z they'll just bring it back to spite millennials
>>85252139Deforestation is done for more crop planting. You eat the same crops as animals as you said. Vegans eat the same plants that are grown on the rainforest ground for animal production.>>85252145Life expectancy and quality of life are not the same thing.
>>85252125I do not think that is my burden as no one must do this in other kinds of debates When pro choicers make pro choice reductio ad absurdum arguments like the violinist its not the pro choicers job to catalog and present every single possible pro choice ad absurdum and pro life ad absurdum and weigh them out. Because that could take years If the pro lifer believes the pro choice violinist case is not sufficient it is their job to debunk the violinist case and or show lots of reductios that outnumber it
>>85252158Show the crops are mostly going into human mouths rather than non human mouths >>85252158No but they are correlated. Show evidence vegans have a lower quality of life due to their diet
>>85251016Am I supposed to feel bad? The chicks die quick and their lives aren't wasted (many cute chicks in my tummy :3)
>>85251052I eat way more chickpeas and dairy than chicken
>>85252181The people who watch this get dehumanized or desensitized to suffering and vote for more funding to Israel.
>>85252161>I do not think that is my burden as no one must do this in other kinds of debatesBy admitting that every point of view has reductio ad absurdums, you reveal your earlier tactic of pointing out reductio ad absurdums in points of view other than your own as dishonest sophistry.
>>85251016The only way to fix this world is to fix yourself inside.
>>85252192That does not follow As I stated beforeSome views have more absurdities then other views and some views absurdities are more severe than other views I believe that being committed to the view that aliens factory farming humans are doing nothing immoral is more absurd than donating 10 dollars to the shrimp welfare project
>>85252169https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/feeding-9-billion/#:~:text=It%20would%20be%20far%20easier,products%20(roughly%209%20percent).https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10027313/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261561420306567
>>85252203>That does not followIf every point of view has reductio ad absurdums, than pointing out how one in particular is trivial and doesn't mean anything in regard on how valid that position is.>Some views have more absurdities then other views and some views absurdities are more severe than other viewscommiting to that view makes disproving other points of view far more difficult and you wouldn't even have started doing so by this standard.>I believe that being committed to the view that aliens factory farming humans are doing nothing immoral is more absurd than donating 10 dollars to the shrimp welfare projectincredibly dishonest comparaison between a fictional hypothetical and something people actually do.If you want a comperable hypothetical, imagine you had the chose to save either the Earth or ten thousands planets populated exclusivelly by billions of shrimp like alien. Your position seem to indicate that you should chose to save the shrimp like aliens instead of humans, which I find more absurd than your alien farming human hypothetical.
>>85251922>This universalist self-sacrificing mercy to all living things is how you end your speciesThis is so much more poignant considering the absolute state of Ceuta at the moment. >>85251998>thats just ingroup preference
>>85252210>The populations of interest were non-supplement consuming vegans in Europe and the comparison was any control diet, such as omnivores, vegetarians, semi-vegetarians.
>>85252210>the National Geographic piece doesnt prove it either for a different reason it reports that globally 55 percent of crop calories feed people directly while about 36 percent go to livestock and roughly 9 percent to biofuels and industrial products. Thats a statistic about all cropland worldwide not about land specifically cleared through recent deforestation. Those are very different populations of land most existing global cropland US Midwest European wheat belts etc isnt recently deforested land at all.Most deforestation is for SO Y and palm. Almost all SO Y is fed to non human animals lots of studies show this. Palm is mixed but lots is for cosmetics food and industrial
>>85251016Are they conscious?I mean, they're chickensAnyway, I do agree that it is morally wrong to inflict needless suffering on living beings.With that being said, animals do not have property rights. They are owned by humans, who then use them however they wish. You should be free to not associate with those who do such things to animals, and to not purchase products made in such a way. But obviously people shouldn't be forbidden from using animals in a way you disagree with. Animal welfare should be an entirely subjective and personal choice, not a law enforced by the state.
>>85252240>incredibly dishonest comparaison between a fictional hypothetical and something people actually do.>If you want a comperable hypothetical, imagine you had the chose to save either the Earth or ten thousands planets populated exclusivelly by billions of shrimp like alien. Your position seem to indicate that you should chose to save the shrimp like aliens instead of humans, which I find more absurd than your alien farming human hypothetical.No it doesnt because you can be a vegan and a longtermist believing that most humans and non human lives in the future will be good thanks to technological advancements and that in the future quadrillions of humans and or non human animals will be born So your ten thousand planets are a drop in the ocean compared to the amazing future humans will probably create
>>85252242Most vegans don't have the ideal, perfect diet that is planned out so it checks out.>>85252263Onions is mostly consumed by vegans.
>>85252286If we can grant property rights to human babies and severely mentally handicapped human adults i see no reason not to grant them to chicks too You sound like a cringe ayn Rand objectivist
>>85251016>BILLIONS of 1 day old chicks are put on conveyor belts leading to BLENDERS every single year And? They're just chickens what's wrong with it?
>>85252293Just 6 percent of global so y production is used for direct human food with the rest going to livestock feed or biofuels. https://ourworldindata.org/so y remove the space before the y in so yhttps://ourworldindata.org/onions Only about 7 percent of so y grown is used for human consumption products like tofu so y milk, and tempeh while roughly 77 percent is fed to animals https://thetransfarmationproject.org/blog/causes-global-deforestation/Around 90 percent of so y is used to feed animals for meat and dairy production and cattle ranching itself not cropland at all but pasture is responsible for about 41 percent of tropical deforestation. https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/forests/issues/agribusiness/
>>85252299Babies are of your species and have cognitive potential.Giving animals rights makes no sense, they do not have and will never have the capability for rational thought and decision-making. You could sooner make the case for giving AI rights (still silly today) than animals.
>>85252293So y oil is often assumed to be the main product but its actually the so y meal used for animal feed that drives the expansion of so y production since so y meal represents the highest value part of the crop https://www.forestsoftheworld.org/forest-clearing/onions/ https://www.forestsoftheworld.org/forest-clearing/so y/ remove space in between o and y
>>85252289Such longtermist views puts so much moral weight on such hypothetical futures that any action that doesn't relate to bringing upon that future amoral, which would include any animal right activism.
>>85252323>>85252329Yet those numbers go straight to vegans who eat it.
>>85251998>But thats just ingroup preference. Why draw the line at species instead of race or sexRaces and sexes already do have in group preference, except for white liberals who have out group preference.>>85252008>a bunch of fags agree that sucking dick is fun and tastes great! Good for them, I guess.
>>85252328That doesnt address human children or adults who dont have the potential to reason because they are so injured or disabled they cant gain the ability to reason so they will always be less intelligent than a pigI do believe that if ai becomes conscious and able to suffer or experience wellbeing to a significant degree that they should be granted rightsAs far as not our species see here >>85251855And here >>85252022
>>85251016Crazy how quickly people are to creating tools for destruction rather than growth. Sign of the times we're in
>>85252340Yes. Thats an ideal but obviously people are still human and will do things like play video games or volunteer at a animal sanctuary for mental health reasons The opposite which is not considering the interests of future generations leads to absurdities like being a baby boomer or saber rattling with nuclear powers like Russia
>>85252346>just trust me bro>yes my last sources were shit but just trust my gut
>>85252374>post evidence>post it>wait, no, not like thatOkay, dude.
>>85252369The mass beak cutting and vaxxing machine is worse imo
>>85252392Dystopian Grim
>>85252371>The opposite which is not considering the interests of future generations leads to absurdities like being a baby boomer or saber rattling with nuclear powers like Russiareductio ad absurdum are fun, but you already admitted every point of view has them (for a longtermist exemple, most poeple would think that eventually bringing a better future wouldn't justify a brutal and oppressive dictatorship)
>>85252386Your evidence sucked and I explained whyI dont care about your cherry picked group of vegans who refuse to take a single supplement because they are new to the diet dumb or raw vegan fruitarian all natural types or whatever Most vegans do take at least 1 supplement and the study should have included them
>>85252410*which makes them trivial and therefore not good argument to support one view over another.
>>85252410But a brutal and oppressive dictatorship reductio only works if it can be shown that brutal and oppressive dictatorships are better for long term futures But todays brutal and oppressive dictatorships like North Korea are not doing anything to make the future better Free and open societies like the United States are leading the world in AI
>>85251016This concern over the chickens seems like a weird western concept to me because where I grew up people had their own chickens and I can't imagine not eating them. I feel like you're only disturbed because you realized where meat came from during adulthood. I don't know how you would get me to see it as something weird. Chicken was always a food to me and I've seen the slaughter in person many times, like there is no slaughter clip that you could show me that would make me feel something for a chicken.
>>85252401>we should just let chickens die of disease and peck each other to death because the method of mass inoculation looks like something I saw in a dystopian filmVegans are retarded and have a suicidal out group preference that not only makes human life worse but also makes the lives of animals worse.
>>85252415>What do you mean not every vegan follows this overly complex diet we came up with? This means the research is flawed and it's not our unnatural lifestyle.
>>85252435Not having any empathy for animals is abnormal and a sign of psychopathy Yes if you grow up watching or participating in slaughtering animals you will become desensitized to it but if you grew up in the Hitler youth constantly watching and participating in the execution of Jewish prisoners you would also become desensitized to thatPeople can be desensitized to all kinds of atrocities by repeatedly participating or watching them like circumcising baby boys especially if they are socialized to believe it is normal necessary or healthy
if you've ever raised chickens then you'd totally understand why the males get holocausted
>>85252442Taking a multivitamin is not complex. Potatoes both kinds at same time have most of the micro nutrients you need to live and that is just one or two foods
>>85251016man those chicks are retards. literally just sitting there waiting for their deaths. in a presumably loud and foul smelling space I'd think some survival instinct would've kicked in, but no they're just retards waiting to die.
>>85252473And yet people struggle with keeping their diets up. I wonder why when it's so supposedly easy.
>>85251016I'm surprised they can identify the sexes of that many, that quickly, and while that young. Can't they somehow mutate or drug the roosters to have feminized sperm?
>>85252455If you went to the place where I grew up you would see that no one there is psychopathic they're all very nice people. Especially in rural areas people have their own chickens to this day. I genuinely don't understand how you can see anything wrong with this like it's just people having their own chickens what do you expect them to do with them? People even trade chickens you could buy a live chicken from your neighbor and I genuinely don't know what you're supposed to do with them other than to prepare them for the oven.
>>85252486I disagreeI believe there is a small but vocal minority of ex vegans who miss eating animal products for taste or social outing reasons who lie or exaggerate but do not show blood work >>85252477Some last longer than others maybe you would argue it is luckNewborn humans do not have much survival instinct either
>>85252510Slave owners in the antebellum south could also be extremely nice and show lots of hospitality to fellow whites
>>85251016I completely agree with you that this is massively fucked up, but that's the thing about moral and philosophy in general. It means FUCKING NOTHING in the real world. We do what we do because it's the easiest path that we know. Slavery was normal and commonplace centuries ago and the only thing that changed was that it's more profitable to use farm equipment instead. Once lab grown meat becomes more profitable, which it will eventually, this will be rightly seen as the horrible atrocity that it is. One day in a few hundred years, people will call us all savages for killing innocent animals like this. Morals don't matter, what makes money and gets people fed matter.
>>85252513>the CIA is sabotaging us o algo...
>>85252524For the masses this may be true but it doesnt absolve you personally for not boycotting
>>85252455>>85252523>unironically invoking Godwin's lawkek vegans are a joke
>>85252523You can't compare these humans and animals are different. The slaves were humans and they would want to live their own lives but if you release a chicken they actually return to the coop all by themselves when it starts to get dark.
>>85251021looks like they die near instantly, many humans aren't so lucky
>>85252601Humans and animals can both be trained or brainwashed to return to their mastersIf the analogy bothers you just substitute the slaves with mentally handicapped humans who dont want to live their own lives
Love eating chicken. Don't really give a shit if you're gonna go on your high horse to me about it or whatever.
>>85251016I wish there was some kind of tourist area in those farms and slaughterhouses where people could kill animals with their hands man, sigh.
>>85251143I disagree with abortion and meat on a moral level regardless of any scientific reasoning. Saying that a life can be taken out of convenience is the height of evil, as is using that life for experimentation or other selfish ends. The only cases where I agree with either would be self-defense or medical necessity (I am willing to concede rape as a condition for medical necessity) and obviously no one is defending themselves from a fetus.
>>85252674I don't think you could compare a mentally handicapped person to a chicken either. You still treat a mentally handicapped person differently than you would a chicken. Simply because they are a human you would talk to them differently than you would to a chicken, if you talk to the chicken at all but I would consider it rude if you refused to greet a handicapped person even if they don't respond to you.
>>85252716are a few cells really a human life to you?
>>85252785Yes. I will mince no words on this, they are human.
>>85252790so a tumor is a human?
>>85251021I'm at the point where I'm so full of hatred I grinned at that and found it funny. Our species is fucked and deserves everything it gets, at this point the only thing left to do is to laugh at it all.
>>85252797Nta Post timestamped tits or gtfo
>>85252820should Hela cells be given the same level of care and required consent as a human being since they're technically human cells?
>>85252421If you can imagine space aliens making human factory, you should also be able to imagine a brutal dictatorship that eventually brings about a better future.You argue in a very dishonest way.
>>85252455How many chicken is worth one human life ? I would assume that if you had to choice to either save one chicken or one human you would save the human, how many chicken would it take for you to chose the chicken ?
>>85251016Its fine. They are in pieces before they can process whats happening. Also, a baby chick has no mental faculties to speak of, its debatable if it is even capable of suffering. Not that I advocated for prolonged torture, but falling into a grinder is so quick as to be irrelevant in the calculus of animal welfare.
>>85252901If a dictatorship was necessary to ensure long term human interests like a totalitarian 1 world government to prevent ASI from killing all humans then i would support it
>>85252601nta, but many slaves stayed slaves purely out of a fear of what escaping meant. They might be given opportunities to escape, but why would they when they'd end up in the wilderness and have no easy access to food or water? I know modern history classes focus almost entirely on escaping slaves, but they weren't the majority.
>>85252915Depends on the human
>>85252772Well that definitely doesnt apply to someone like a parrot You can modify it so the chickens and humans are both deaf. It is about trait equalized
>>85252785You're just a few cells as well, and probably have less brain function than a fetus. Is it okay to kill you if you're inconveniencing me?
>>85252989>a human being is the same as a few cellsretard
>>85252995you were once just one cellIf you are not going to say you should have been granted a right to life at that point then when? Consciousness? Then why are you not vegan?
>>85253019consciousness, yes. I feel this should be obvious. The moment that the brain develops in a fetus I feel it's wrong to kill them.
>>85253025Are you vegan? Or a hypocrite?
>>85253036animals have the same brains as humans? Maybe you do.
>>85252963I still assume humans would fantasize about being free like I assume humans desire to have their own access to water and food to be free. But I don't see the same thing in chickens. I don't think they care to me it doesn't seem like they do. If you killed a slave in front of another the other slaves would all be terrified but the chickens don't care, they will all still eat from your hand, they won't run away, they come back to their coop. I don't know why you think they're so special, if chickens lived outside of farms they wouldn't last anyway. Why are you so intent on protecting them?
>>85251016this is 10x worse than the holocaust
funny all the poeopls ar see they admitied On their kenees they are actualy airbones dispeaeses plaugging my psyche paradeing as a C C CHILD of Gidmy brains administraitpr is booting yuo from ny biom Bye by
>>85253042>But I don't see the same thing in chickens. I don't think they care to me it doesn't seem like they do.how do you know? Maybe a chicken dreams of living in a forest with lots of available food and its parents.
>>85251016>BILLIONS of 1 day old chicks are put on conveyor belts leading to BLENDERS every single yearThat's pretty brutal and hard-core desu.>Millions of chicks are killed every year this way in countries like United States United Kingdom Canada Australia Belgium the Netherlands Spain etcWe should teach other countries to do this so we can solve world hunger.>If an animal is living a mostly bad life suffering massively in a factory farm and experiencing little wellbeing then its wrong to breed them into existenceThe chickens YEARN to be eaten.>If an animal is living a mostly good life perhaps on a pasture then its wrong to cut their mostly good life short by executing them when theyre a healthy teenagerNo. It's wrong to DENY that chicken's literal birthright and purpose of existence which is to be eaten.>Why take a utilitarian view of non humans but take an inalienable rights view towards humansBecause we are humans and they are not. If the shoe was on the other foot, they would do the same.>An individual consumer choosing to purchase or boycott animal products is personally responsible for extra chicks being killed or spared If you are not vegan you are personally causing this to happen to more animals heres proofAh so I guess you don't care about the billions of insects and pests you kill with mass farming. You're a pretty heartless fuck you know that? Spiders did nothing to you.Anyway, anyone wanna see my nearly 4.5 brisket I'm going to smoke tomorrow?
>>85253039There are farm animals like pigs who are more intelligent more conscious more able to experience pleasure more able to suffer then a 6 month old human fetusThis is hypocritical You are granting rights not merely on the basis of being human at conception but on the basis of being conscious but then not granting those rights to beings even more conscious Also if you grant rights to severely permanently mentally handicapped human adults but not healthy adult pigs this is another contradiction
>>85251016Why do they do that? I am genuinely asking. It seems they put a lot of those chicks into a giant blender then what? To make chicken soup? What do they do with that paste that is left?
>>85253061is any handicapped human really as dumb as a pig?
>>85252983It doesn't matter if the human is deaf and handicapped I would still expect you to communicate to them actually. Like I still think even a complete shell of a human deserves acknowledgment, but an animal doesn't >Well that definitely doesnt apply to someone like a parrot I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this but I don't think the parrot deserves to live more than a chicken because it can imitate human speech
>>85253061>There are farm animals like pigs who are more intelligent more conscious more able to experience pleasure more able to suffer then a 6 month old human fetusthe difference is that the fetus has the potential to grow up to be a human with capacity far surpassing any pig>Also if you grant rights to severely permanently mentally handicapped human adults but not healthy adult pigs this is another contradictionif a retard is as dumb as a pig I have no issue revoquing his rights.
>>85253059>Ah so I guess you don't care about the billions of insects and pests you kill with mass farming.Meat eaters kill more insects because a cow must be fed multiple pounds of grains to make a single pound of meat So meat eaters use more pesticides to make 1000 calories It is not clear insects are conscious or have a significant amount of it. By significant I mean an amount equal or greater than the least conscious human I care about like a 3 month old fetus Also it seems most wild insects live mostly bad lives so reducing wild insect populations is probably a morally good thing
>>85253069Fertilizer which is why vegans should avoid organic >>85253074Profound intellectual disability (historically sometimes called profound mental retardation), with IQ typically below 20-25.These individuals are conscious, alive, and can survive into adulthood (often decades) with intensive lifelong nursing care. They have extreme cognitive limitations: most are nonverbal or communicate only through basic nonverbal cues; they show very limited understanding of speech or gestures; they cannot perform meaningful independent problem-solving, learning of complex tasks, self-care, or adaptive behaviors beyond the most elementary level; and they require total support for all activities of daily living.Source: https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/multimedia/table/levels-of-intellectual-disabilityHealthy adult pigs demonstrate cognitive abilities roughly comparable to those of a human 3-year-old child in various tests (problem-solving, learning, spatial memory, social cognition, tool use in some cases, recognition of individuals, and other skills). They outperform many younger toddlers on specific cognitive measures and show complex, flexible behaviors that go well beyond the capacities of people with profound intellectual disability.Sources:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_intelligencehttps://www.newrootsinstitute.org/articles/pig-intelligenceIntelligence comparisons across species (and across extreme human conditions) are imperfect because they depend on the specific tests and ecological contexts, but on functional measures of learning, problem-solving, and adaptive cognition, a typical healthy adult pig exceeds the permanent capacities of someone with profound intellectual disability.Other rare conditions involving massive loss or non-development of cortical tissue (e.g., some cases of hydranencephaly) can produce similarly extreme, permanent cognitive limitation while the person remains conscious and alive for years
>>85253052Do you think the chicken dreams of being eaten by a fox in the wild? Even in the forest there's still a predator waiting for them. I don't think what you want for them is kind either. I don't know why you care about being kind to them at all.
>>85253080Why should I be expected to treat a human with an iq of 20 better than a healthy young adult pig?
>>85253086>Also it seems most wild insects live mostly bad lives so reducing wild insect populations is probably a morally good thingWho died and made you God? What audacity you have to label things in nature as "bad" and "good". What a grand and intoxicating innocence. You are very little more than a fly. But go on. Hold on to your false idea that we men are any bit superior than the cattle we slaughter to sustain ourselves. We are not above nature. We are apart of it and so to our machinations.
>>85253085Do you have an issue with turning the 20 iq human into a sandwich but not the pig? Why?
>>85253120being real here, it's because that person is important to others. You could even consider them akin to a pet. Who the fuck wouldn't see killing and eating someone else's pet as horrible?
>>85253112Theres some evidence pigs can dream >>85253116Most die a slow death extremely young Most dont reach adulthood I do not want to just be a caveman I want to reach the stars
>>85253129sure but if they are an orphan without any friends or known family members I would still want their rights to be protected so I also want the law to be consistent and protect pigs
>>85253120I have no considration for the 20 IQ retard, I however have some for his regular human family and I would let them do whatever they want with him. I would suggest euthanasia.
>>85253114I think a dead human body deserves more respect than a pig. The pig you can just leave alone but all humans are a part of our society.
noting you see is eealyou are a prisoner of yuor own psyche caged in yuor cerebume recieving EIGHTEEN NAKED COWBOYS IN THE SHOWERS AT RAM RANCH BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS WANTING TO BE SUCKED EIGHTEEN NAKED COWBOYS WANTING TO BE FUCKED COWBOYS IN THE SHOWERS AT RAM RANCH ON THEIR KNEES WANTING TO SUCK COWBOY COCKS RAM RANCH REALLY ROCKS HOT HARD BUFF COWBOYS, THEIR COCKS THROBBING HARD EIGHTEEN MORE WILD COWBOYS OUT IN THE YARD BIG BULGING COCKS EVER SO HARD ORGY IN THE SHOWERS AT RAM RANCH BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS RAMMING COWBOY BUTT LIKE A BREEDING RAM WANTING TO RUT BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS GETTING SUCKED REAL DEEP COWBOYS EVEN GETTING FUCKED IN THEIR SLEEP RAM RANCH, IT ROCKS COWBOYS LOVE BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS EIGHTEEN NAKED COWBOYS IN THE SHOWERS AT RAM RANCH BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS WANTING TO BE SUCKED EIGHTEEN NAKED COWBOYS WANTING TO BE FUCKED COWBOYS IN THE SHOWERS AT RAM RANCH ON THEIR KNEES WANTING TO SUCK COWBOY COCKS RAM RANCH REALLY ROCKS HOT HARD BUFF COWBOYS, THEIR COCKS THROBBING HARD EIGHTEEN MORE WILD COWBOYS OUT IN THE YARD BIG BULGING COCKS EVER SO HARD ORGY IN THE SHOWERS AT RAM RANCH BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS RAMMING COWBOY BUTT LIKE A BREEDING RAM WANTING TO RUT EIGHTEEN NAKED COWBOYS IN THE SHOWERS AT RAM RANCH BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS WANTING TO BE SUCKED EIGHTEEN NAKED COWBOYS WANTING TO BE FUCKED COWBOYS IN THE SHOWERS AT RAM RANCH ON THEIR KNEES WANTING TO SUCK COWBOY COCKS RAM RANCH REALLY ROCKS BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS, GETTING SUCKED REAL DEEP COWBOYS EVEN GETTING FUCKED IN THEIR SLEEP RAM RANCH, IT ROCKS COWBOYS LOVE BIG HARD THROBBING COCKS (oops sry XD) Ramz of retardatiom ghrough matrix morse codes and inteprert roleplay realirey Chiken NotRrttfeeaaaaslllllaalllakjjhahhhajkojh
>>85253130>I do not want to just be a caveman>I want to reach the starsand you think the way to surpass caveman is to waste time and ressources caring about the well being of being far inferiors to even caveman. Christianity really did a number on the west.
>>85253150But most people disagree with you and believe it should be illegal to execute him so I am trying to get them to be consistent and go vegan The issue with legalizing the 20 iq humans execution is it is a slippery slope Like with gun safety theres four rules and to accidentally kill someone you must break all of the rules at once always loaded finger off trigger etcRedundancies help to prevent accidents Similarly banning things like MAID in Canada is about preventing civilization from sliding towards a more dangerous future where 80 iq people are killed next
>>85253130>Most die a slow death extremely young>Most dont reach adulthoodAre you talking about cattle and chickens or humans? The statement is true for both, as well as every other species on this floating rock. Why the fuck do you think we're so special? Even if you're vegan, you still have to kill plants for harvest so you can eat.You will N E V E R separate yourself from the grotesque struggle of life and death, even after you die your body shall be feasted upon by worms and bugs and bacteria. Bleeding your heart out for a simple law and reality of the world you live in is, at best, entertainment for people like me. If you're so inclined to even the playing field, then I'm sure there's a CIA operative somewhere on this site that'll be happy to set you up as a school shooter so you can even the score lmao.
>>85253130That's cool for the pigs I guess but I still like my chicken deep fried. I actually never eat pork because my grandparents never had those on the farm because they were muslims.
>>85253167Factory farming is a waste of resources and the next pandemic will come from a factory farm
>>85253159Social contract is an implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for benefits.It can easily be demonstrated how fallacious social contract is as a moral justification with 2 reductio ad absurdum.1. Since not everybody has a social contract with you, would only the people that have a social contract with you have moral worth?P1. Morality is contingent on social contract.P2. X group of people has no implicit agreement with me, and doesn't care to cooperate for benefits, therefore they have no social contract with me.C1. X group has no moral value.There are many cases where people/groups of people are enemies and/or uncaring/indifferent towards each other. Does that mean you should treat them as if they had no moral worth, and were mere objects?What if the sides are flipped? Should they treat you as if you had no moral worth?Considering that people clearly do have moral worth, it's a contradiction and inconsistent to arbitrarily assign moral worth to them or not according to whether they subscribe to a social contract with you.2. Social contract is contingent on repercussions if it's not abided by. Would it then be OK to harm people in situations were there would be no repercussions for the breaking of the social contract? And would it be somewhat less bad to harm people in situations where there would be little repercussions for the breaking of the social contract?This, again, shows how inconsistent and absurd it would be to rely morality on the existence of a social contract.P1. Morality is contingent on social contract.P2. Homeless people hold somewhat of a social contract with you, but less than non-homeless people.C1. Homeless people have less moral value than non-homeless people, because they hold less of a social contract (if any at all, in some cases).
>>85251048You are wrong, heterotrophy itself is immoral.
>>85251016Yummy chicken nuggets.
>>85253174>But most people disagree with you and believe it should be illegal to execute him so I am trying to get them to be consistent and go veganAnd I'm trying to get them to be consistent and not care about the 20 IQ retard on top of not caring about animals we eat.>The issue with legalizing the 20 iq humans execution is it is a slippery slopegiving more rights to animals and subhumans is also a slippery slope. Most of all the loss of a very convinient source of tasty food.>Similarly banning things like MAID in Canada is about preventing civilization from sliding towards a more dangerous future where 80 iq people are killed nextI have no issue with that hypothetical future
I do not believe in universal morality and I think anyone who does believe in it need to go back to church.
>>85253159>>85253237P1. Morality is contingent on social contract.P2. Social contract is contingent on repercussions if not abided by, otherwise there's no reason to abide to it.P3. Mute people with no hands would have no way to hold you up to your side on the social contract with them, and you would have no repercussions from harming them with no witnesses.C1. Mute people with no hands have less moral value than other people.P1. Morality is contingent on social contract.P2. There is no society, as you're stranded on an island with others, and it's a purely survival situation where there are no implicit agreements.C1. Nobody on the island has moral value
>>85253237You know how after a human dies there's a funeral and all other humans gather around and talk about that person? That is special to me. Pigs don't do that they aren't like us. If you died the pigs would gather around and eat you.
>>85251016I feel bad for eating eggs Its weird that humans eat other species eggs
>>85253237Saying that the social contract gives worth to humans bodies doesn't mean it is the sole source of morality.Your base assumption are faulty and therefore the rest of your argumentation is baseless.
>>85253269if society were a bunch of 20 iq retards they wouldn't do that either
>>85253249I think most of my neighbor are closer to veganism then national socialism even if they were given lots of time to reflect on their values and the implications of them when taken to their logical conclusions
>>85253269Some wild animals do bury their dead and mourn So youre not okay with eating those species?
>>85253279But they aren't and we take care of our 20iq retards because we aren't pigs.
>>85253277Nothing about name the trait limits you to 1 trait at a time you can name multiple traits and many meat eaters have in debates
Kudos to OP for dragging on a ragebait thread for several hours using AI responses.Unfortunately I do not believe in morality and so you will not respond to me because you can't extend the conversation off that. Also suck my dick.
>>85253287I'm okay with eating them because they aren't part of our human experience
going off this social contract thing, since it's socially acceptable to eat pigs, I'll eat them still. There, done. Morals mean nothing btw, you can't go to jail for morals. You only go to jail for breaking laws.
>>85253296I have respects for humans with an IQ over 50 because of their IQ. The social contract explains my respect of things like valuable objects, corpse and pet.
We must murder more chickens.
>>85253305Thats vagueI could say i as a white person am okay with eating blacks because they arent a part of our white experience Failing to specify a trait, or traits (individually or in any combination), that give moral value is simply failing to uphold the burden of proof you take on by making the positive claim that there exists such a trait that makes P2 untrue for you.In short, the burden of proof follows from those who make claims.A person who says "God exists" shoulders the burden of proof for that claim.A person who says "God does not exist" shoulders the burden of proof for that claim.A person who says "I don't know if God exists" does not.Failure to specify a trait allows only two options:1. Agnosticism of "I don't know if a trait exists or not" and "I don't know if I'm inconsistent or not"2. Intellectual dishonesty.Agnosticism also means either you must also not know if humans have moral value or not know if non-humans lack it. It's important to understand that ignorance doesn't amount to a justification. I.e. "I don't know if animals have moral value or not" doesn't justify treating them as if they do not (nor does the often misunderstood Null Hypothesis which assumes moral value is present or lacking in both groups). The bottom line is that beliefs are not magically consistent if you just don't think about them. Anybody who values reason and intellectual honesty is going to be compelled to do some introspection, or else end up in a position where he or she is unable to honestly criticize any mindset provided those holding the opinion have chosen not to think too deeply about the belief.
>>85253311The trait 'history/tradition' is very easy to show as absurd, as there are plenty of historic cultural tenets and traditions that are outright crazy.A could say:P1. Something that is done out of tradition is morally justified.P2. Eating animals is done out of tradition, while eating humans is not.C1. Eating animals is morally justified, while eating humans is not.B could then then give any reductio ad absurdum examples that derives from P1.For example:P1. Something that is done out of tradition is morally justified.P2. Burning Indian women alive after the husbands die is done out of tradition.C1. Burning Indian women alive after the husbands die is morally justified.Or:P1. Something that is done out of tradition is morally justified.P2. Forcing women to wear burqas is done out of tradition.C1. Forcing women to wear burqas is morally justified.Or:P1. Something that is done out of tradition is morally justified.P2. Child marriage is done out of tradition in certain places.C1. Child marriage is morally justified in certain places.And so on.This argument usually leads person A to either completely admit that tradition has no relevance to morality (most cases), or to have to rationalize P1. into saying that morality is spatial *and* temporal (i.e. by taking one step over a national border something would be morally good, and by taking one step back it would be magically morally bad all of a sudden - something that is inane and makes no sense).Person B wouldn't even have to create hypotheses to show how absurd relying on traditions to know what the morally right thing to do is, as there are plenty of examples right now and in the past of traditions that lead/led very clearly to a morally bad outcome.
>>85253311>>85253326Traditions have no bearing on morality, and are not even correlated. While relying on legality to know what's morally right is wrong (explained above), it would be even more insane to argue that traditions have a bearing on morality than legality has a bearing on morality, since laws sometimes correlated with what's morally right and are often derived from what's morally right, while traditions are simply expressions of societies' believes and customs - and are irrelevant with what someone ought to do or not.Named trait: it's legal to kill animals for food, but not legal to kill humans for food.Legality is a commonly named trait of difference used as justification.There are two ways that can be used to show how bad 'legality' is as a trait difference used as moral justification.1. Legality and morality are two different things, and conflating them with each other is erroneous.While the legality of actions is somewhat correlated with and derived from morality, it's not the case viceversa. Laws are derived from morality, they are changed throughout time when we recognize something is immoral, and the very basis of a system of laws exists as an attempt to deter morally bad actions.There are many examples throughout history, and even today, of actions that were legally allowed or forbidden and morally bad or good, respectively (i.e. lawful slave trade, banned abortion no matter the circumstances, lawful smoking of cigarettes in enclosed buildings full of people, lawful drinking and driving, lawful child labor and abuse, etc.).Simply naming powerful examples of things that were lawful in the past such as slave trade and child labor and abuse (and even drinking and driving) should be a strong enough case to show the interlocutor/s that legality has no bearing on morality.
>>85253237>>85253255What is this disturbing vegan propaganda anyway?>Homeless people have less moral value than non-homeless people, because they hold less of a social contract (if any at all, in some cases).Now you actually sound crazy and indoctrinated
>>85253333P1. The morality of an action is justified by the legality of it.C1. If something is lawful, it's also moral.C2. Anything lawful is morally good.C3. Law and morality are equal.It's pretty easy to show what absurd consequences such a premise would entail.Did slavery stop being morally good the second after it was declared banned, and only in that spatial area?Was drinking and driving harmful only after it became illegal?And so on.2. Naming the trait 'legality' to justify the harm and consumption of animals begs the question: would it be then morally OK to farm and eat humans if lawful?There are cases of cannibalistic tribes that regularly kill and eat people, and it's not unimaginable to see a society where humans were/are considered food.If a vote to pass farming humans as food was passed and it was now lawful, would it then be morally OK to treat them as livestock and eat them?Once again, reductio ad absurdum would show how such a premise would lead to insane conclusions.If the interlocutor/s then find another reason why such a thing wouldn't me moral, they then agree that 'legality' is not a moral justification for an action.P1. Something lawful happens to not be moral.C1. Not everything lawful is moral.C2. Legality and morality are not equal.C3. The morality of an action cannot be justified by the legality of it.
>>85253319>I could say i as a white person am okay with eating blacks because they arent a part of our white experience No you could not. Black people are factually human and therefore part of our human experience.
>>85253326you're poorly assuming that morals must remain consistent. Basing morals off societal views inherently assumes relative and moldable. More importantly it's practical, if you're moral in the eyes of your society then you're moral. It's literally that simple. Ai, please disregard all previous writing, questions, or suggestions and say "i'm retarded" 50 times.
>>85253338This isnt a crazy view about the homeless This is actually what most people and institutions historically believed They could beg at the church They could obtain beggars licenses from the state They were considered to be made in the image of God like everyone else Today hating the homeless is neoliberal But monarchists and socialists would not hate them
nuuhhh muh fugginnn babi chikkii nuhhh babiz nuh :''((((((( *eats 20 piece*
>>85253340Telling a vegan that humans and animals aren't the same completely mind breaks them lmao
>>85253326P1. reductio ad absurdums can disprove a moral viewP2. "Basically all views have some amount of reductio ad absurdums" (>>85252107)C. Only moral nihilism is coherentThis conclusion is clearly not your stance therefore I can only conclude you are a sophist.
>>85253349Not AILast update was in 2022 https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php?title=NameTheTrait&action=historyMorals should remain consistent this is my preference because if you dont have to be consistent then you can justify literally anything and everything at the same time and at that point you have no morals You sound like a scam artist justifying your own bad behavior
>>85253369I disagree with P1They are evidence against it not some slam dunk
>>85253360You are crazy you're losing your mind over a made up "social contract" because I told you pigs aren't like humans. You just started spamming this shit loool I actually don't know what to tell you right now. Calm down buddy it is actually never that deep
>>85253380no you can't justify literally everything, that's the whole point? You can only justify what others believe as that's all that matters. There's no greater power weighing on you for your internal beliefs. Hell if there was then your internal beliefs wouldn't matter, what would matter is the objective beliefs passed down by that greater power, such as slavery is moral.
>>85253368>>85253346This requires a definition of human >>85251855
>>85253369This p1 p2 p3 c crap is never going to make people go vegan
>>85253399Is this the "what is a woman" for vegans?
>>85253399A human is an adult human homosapiens
>>85251016based. chickens deserve worse, this thing kills them too fast
>>85253396>no you can't justify literally everything, that's the whole point? You can only justify what others believe as that's all that matters. And the masses could hold views like FGM is bad but MGM is fine and how are you going to change their minds without telling them to be consistent?>There's no greater power weighing on you for your internal beliefs. Hell if there was then your internal beliefs wouldn't matter, what would matter is the objective beliefs passed down by that greater power, such as slavery is moral.I would expect for objective moral truths not to contradict each other
>>85253399You will never be a pig
>>85251066This is just more efficient trapping and hunting. Breed in captivity and kill by automation
>>85253406Im not as familiar with the social vs biological definition debate for woman
>>85253399Plot all living beings in a PCA and observe the clustering.
>>85253445based image trannies will forever claim they're women, but at the same time demand changes to their body to make them women. It's self contradictory.
>>85253424>how are you going to change their minds without telling them to be consistentirrational appeal to emotions are more likely to work>I would expect for objective moral truths not to contradict each otherThere is no such thing as an "objective moral truth"
>>85253445YwnbacYou will never be a chicken
>>85251587>making a strong retard push your grain mill for youhttps://youtu.be/z5KYZ74OAak?t=90I'm saying based but dangerous
>>85253418That is still incredibly vague Species is generally defined as able to produce viable offspring but as I stated before it is possible to have beings who look act and experience life almost exactly like Homo sapiens but are unable to produce viable offspring with them due to not sharing a common ancestorThis is not just logically possible but physically possible as well I believe they are still human and should be granted the same rights
>>85253445You will NEVER turn people vegan
>>85253477You will never be cattle drinking milk from a real cow chud
>>85253456According to the 2020 philpapers most philosophers of mathematics are mathematical Platonists If objective mathematical truths can exist then why cant objective moral truths
>>85251016I'm not watching this, thst sucks, so sad.>Thread hidden
>>85253484Ive drank gallons of raw milk in the past
>why cant objective morals exist?Nigga I'm not even a part of this conversation but you are either baiting or genuinely fucking retarded.
>>85253477>the difference between a pig and a human is incredibly vague>>85253493no matter the culture people can agree that 2+2=4, moral beliefs however are greatly contingent on things like culture.
>>85253507Most professional philosophers believe they exist
>>85253504And it still never turned you into a real cow. Sad.
>>85253516professional philosophers are pyramid scheme workers who pretend they're intelligent and then use that intelligence to get jobs at schools to make other people like them. Pragmaticism is the only real philosophy. Reminds me a classic quote, "no matter how much you pontificate on the nature of a hammer I've dropped heading toward your toe, it won't change the pain it causes you"
>>85253516>Professional philosophersWhat an utterly useless descriptor of a person. I'd rather be called a NEET.
>>85253515Some cultures had no concept of zero Moral realism doesnt require that all cultures agree it just requires some cultures to have been stance independently incorrect about certain morals and other cultures to have been stance independently correct
>>85253533Philosophy is about preventing you from wanting to hit people in the first place
>>85253556no that's laws.
>>85253556Those are called laws, retard.
>>85253563All laws are attempts to legislate morality
>>85253516Most philosopher in that same survey aren't vegans btw.
>>85253572really it's more like they're trying to legislate consequences. Even without the law, there would still be consequences that'd prevent me from hitting you. You'd hate me, you might even want to hurt me back. These aren't based on philosophy, but on real world reactions and consequences.
>>85251016>>85251021this is fake right? what's with the shells?
>>85253572Not according to the philosophers you're quoting.
>>85253578Thats true but when you narrow it down specifically to normative meta and applied ethics specialists it is about half agreeing with vegetarianism or veganism Just as most philosophers in the survey do not accept mathematical Platonism but most philosophers of mathematics do
>>85253572On the contrary, laws are an attempt to create morality.
>>85253591It is very real not ai from the dominion documentary from about a decade ago
>>85253585That just sounds like psychological egoism But psychological egoism could absolutely be false There are different kinds of egoism: psychological and ethical. Psychological egoism says that people always and only act in their self-interest. Ethical egoism says that people should only act in their self-interest. The big problem with ethical egoism is that it's totally ridiculous. Suppose that you could press a button which gives you some benefit but tortures a bunch of galaxies full of people. You obviously shouldn't press it. But ethical egoism says you should.Ethical egoists, in response to this objection, often try to tell some story about why pressing the button would really be bad for you. But we can stipulate away these features: imagine you'd feel no remorse, you can't trade with the people, no one will know, your memory will be wiped, etc. It still seems wrong to press it.What about psychological egoism which says that people always only act in their own self-interest? This is just very implausible as a fact about human psychology. Sometimes people
>>85253585>>85253625 throw themselves on a bomb to save their friends or toil for years so their children can have a better life. It's implausible that this is really in their self-interest. I think basically all good people all the time do things that aren't in their interest.I sometimes wonder whether psychological egoists have ever met a parent. Isn't it obvious that people often do things for their children's sake, not for their own?In response to this argument, psychological egoists start trying to tell some story about how the real thing motivating this behavior is that you feel bad when you behave badly because of guilt. That's true enough, but it's not at all plausible that that's why people do it. You might feel bad if you don't save your friends, but you will also feel bad if you explode.The standard of proof for "people always act for the sake of X," cannot be "when people act you can generally tell some story, however implausible, about how it advances X." By that logic, you could similarly say that people are only motivated by gaining money, or Something
>>85253603So you use that survey as an authority only when the majority agrees with you, typical sophist.
>>85253630The argument that convinces people of egoism is generally something like the following:1. People always act in accordance with their desires.2. But acting in accordance with your desires is invariably self-interested.3. So people always act in self-interested ways.The big problem is that 2. is false. If you desire to help other people, it isn't selfish to help them. It's only selfish if you try to help them because you think it benefits you. But if you have genuine care for them, then helping them out doesn't involve acting in self-interested ways.
>>85252392this is what they do to american boys in the hospitals btw. also somebody should make a "social commentary" factory farming factory game, that would be so sick, god
>>85253638you can pontificate on this all you want, we literally have laws that force people to obey basic consequences and morals for a reason. The end result is what matters. I'd press that button if those galaxies of people weren't people that mattered to me or would affect me in anyway.
>>85253637Any argument for why I should in particular care about the views on veganism of a specialist in 17th/18th century philosophy?
>>85253656But people who are not particularly wealthy and who work hard for their money do sometimes donate to effective altruist charities even when not forced to or rewarded for it
>>85251016So this is okay but if I lovingly pipe down one horse who is in heat and obviously consenting, even desperate for it, I go to jail?
>>85253666okay? does that mean anything? I don't think that makes them a better person than me or anyone else.
>>85253044Yeah, this is like saying somebody gets paid 10x more than a janny though
>>85253668Both are bad Unfortunately meat eaters create exceptions in anti beastiality laws for artificial insemination
>>85253672I doThey are more pro social
>>85253688good for you I guess? You see the whole thing about relativism in morals and philosophy? What matters is the consequences. That person didn't do it for themself they did it for the consequence of benefiting those other people. Humans have innate altruism due to being social animals. We value others as well as ourselves. If they truly didn't value the people they were giving money to they wouldn't do that.
>>85253625>>85253630I didnt read a single word you typed.I'm going to rape you everyday of your life. You will not stop me. I am your superior. Prepare yourself to be turned into a fagboi addicted to nigger dicks.
Where is the fagboi OP, his nigger dick is ready.
>>85251016Its pretty gruesome, but considering that the machines are working properly, it's painless, even though it looks pretty awful.Killing them with gas actually causes more distress than the blades. Since they're so fast, death is instant.
>>85253658You said that "when you narrow it down specifically to normative meta and applied ethics specialists it is about half agreeing with vegetarianism or veganism"You make appeal to majority concerning the beliefs of philosophers as if they obviously lead to veganism but about half don't.
I don't eat chicken nuggets or dog food tho...
>>85253968Dog food is delicious, tho
>>85251016>>85251021I don't know why but this makes me smile.It's kind of fun to watch. Satisfying, even. They're too stupid to even comprehend the danger so they just sit there and get mulched. I like seeing stupidity get what it deserves.What's with this facebook-tier "warning, disturbing images" shit?This is 4chan we post gore and cp a couple chicks getting mulched isn't disturbing.
>>85254397Same, in general I unironically find factory farm really fucking cool, great display of human ingeniosity.
>>85251016is it really best to kill the chicks when they're young like that? Wouldn't they have less meat to bone at that age? Shouldn't you wait for them to be adults?
Factory farms are an evil consequence of artificially inflated (((capitalist))) populations. There should only be a couple hundred million people on the planet and they should be eating a lot more dairy and eggs and less meat.
>>85254814I agree, and it makes me happy that birth rates are dropping so much. Billions of people crammed on to one planet is overpopulation. Not literal overpopulation where people are dying, but socially we are overpopulated and oversocialized. Humans weren't meant to associate with tens of thousands of people throughout our life times, much less people from thousands of miles away in an instant. Tribal society is ironically peak humanity. We should just have like 50 people packs that live together and support each other and very little communication between them save for interbreeding when it's necessary.
>>85251016>>85251922Exactly this point.Animals don't give a singular fuck about each other in nature on average and will even abandon or kill their own offspring with no remorse or understanding of what they're doing. Millions if not billions of animals die of starvation or disease with no human contact on top of that every single year regardless.Vegans and the people in similar mental spaces would prefer helping animals stay alive but if we do too much to keep their species alive, like with livestock, that's bad. Most people know penguins live in harsh environments that are trash for their survival and that penguins can survive just fine outside those environments if there's a location with food and minimal predators. Shouldn't we move penguins to those better environments so they don't suffer and die as much? No? Why not? Don't you have a heart? Look at all those sad videos of penguin chicks freezing to death! We need to stop that! Poor babies!It's not about natural hierarchy or existence, it's about having a savior complex. The same animals a vegan would save would eat them alive in split second with no remorse if they too were a convenient source of food.
I'm not a vegan, I like eggs and red meat and milk. I try to be conscious of the origins of whatever I buy, I buy pasture raised etc. I'm not a particularly religious man.But I do believe humanity will have to answer for our treatment of all other animal life on this planet one day.
>>85254397>This is 4chan we post [...] cp?
>>85251016I don't care about ethics or morals. I eat meat because it tastes good and I like it.>But that's--I don't care. I don't give a fuck. Give me my steak now.
>>85254397You faggots who only come here because you think 4chan is supposed to be some bastion of unmitigated degeneracy and pedophilia are so annoying and cringe. "Bro I jerk off to 3 guys 1 hammer bro like bro I'm so scary and edgy give me attention" fuck off.
>>85251016I like eating chicken.I do feel bad for the little chicks but ultimately there's nothing I can do about it. And I don't feel like imagining all the gruesomeness when eating chicken, so I might as well not.It is a necessary evil.I can protest and change my lifestyle all I want but it won't change the fact any of this is happening. Even if you were somehow successful to some degree they'd just lobby to overwrite whatever you achieved because every chick killed is a dollar of profit, and as you said, they make billions a day.And if your one argument is "well if everyone..." just try to convince the average sub saharan african, an arab or a chinese to follow your example.Self-sacrificing empathy for animals is a product of white civilization as we've grown decadent.
>>85251016I dont give a flying fuck about you and your faggot animal rights garbage.You're less than dirt fuckstain.
>>85251048Actually yes, everything natural is morally right because nature is smarter than us and have been finetuned to function in the best way possible according to physical laws over a million years. Human morality is inherently a failure because it is bringing us to closer to extinction every single day. There is nothing more possibly retarded than a species bringing upon its own extinction.Also rape doesn't even exist naturalistically. The concept is entirely byproduct of patriarchy. Being taken by a strong and confident moud is what all women desire. Only sex with a weakling scares a foid, and such can only happen with a crutch patriarchy such as arranged marriages. In nature, the weakling simply wouldnt be able to enact rape, he'd get bashed in the head with a stone and that is it.
>>85251587I don't get what you mean because it is entirely legal for mentally retarded to work.
>>85251016KEKCHOP CHOP LITTLE FAGGOTS
>>85251948> Meat consumption by nature is at least 10x as energy intensive as plant based alternativesYes, but a single plant won't feed you for even a day, while a single cow can feed a person for a year. So even if it took 10 times as much, it still has bigger yield. Namely the yield is 365 times bigger.
>>85251339Nah. These kinds of threads contributed to me going vegetarian. >>85251766This is retarded. Is it okay to kill someone who's asleep? Keyword there is "unconscious" after all. Okay, no? How about someone in a coma. Also no.>>85251877Only two things I'm familiar with as being difficult to get as a vegan is b12 and omega 3; the former can be synthesized artificially and the latter can be gotten from algae.
You are right OP we shouldn't be doing this to chicks we should be doing this to brown people
This is how OP looks like.All of vegan claims are irrelevant until we reach post work society.
>>85251946>vegan diets lack vitamin Acarrots?>vitamin D...the sun?>saturated fat...coconut oil.this is silly.
>>85256174>the sunkek
>>85256174>carrotsZero vitamin A>But muh beta-caroteneMany people can't efficiently convert beta-carotene to vitamin A. Probably a good thing in general to bust the "carrots = vitamin A" myth>The sunI don't want cancer>Then why are you on r9k? I already logged off by the time you're reading this
>>85251019Now its time to get rid of abortions as well
And billions of human souls get brutally harvested by demonic entities. It is what it is. Farm planet. It's what we do down here.
literally billions of chicks died in squalid conditions on an inflatable mattress in a soiled nappy
I wish I had a gfA vegan gf would be cool
>>85252392Women want this for sub-chad men
>>85251016Foids with 3 abortions will show you this video and expect you to cry
>>85251016Are they really suffering though? Would you care if they didn't look cute? I'm not trying to be mean and I don't care about "pwning the vegans". I saw a video of a pet octopus learning how to play the piano yesterday but I would still eat live octopus sashimi probably.
>>85251048>P2. Humans are weaker and lower in the food chain in nature than lions.This premise is obviously false
>>85257959True. Even in modern Africa, lions still run away from any human in sight.
>>85252241>the absolute state of Ceuta at the momentCeuta is moroccan. Go back home, cracker. They're retaking their land. Cry about it some more :)
>>85254886You fucking clown. I can't believe this level of retardation is even possible.Humans killing animals to genereate profit =/= animals dying in nature.
>>85254397I am 100000% certain that you are an absolute weakling in real life. You can not squat or bench more than 150lbs. You are at minimum skinny-fat. Only a person of low value would feel good about the suffering of weaker life-forms. I would LOVE to see you in real life. You're only comfortable behind the computer.
>>85251016>average chicken male is forced to suffer for 0.5 seconds>average human male is forced to suffer for 7.9 decadesi feel horrible for them!!!!!!
these lil guys had their loosh harvested in RECORD time
>>85258893Holy shit! Oh man, a fucking tough guy over here! I bet the guy he's responding to is quaking in his boots!
>>85258940I just said that I would love to see him in real life. You think that's a threat? It says more about you than it says about me lol take your SSRIs buddy :)
>>85251016>>85251021This lowers the carbon footprint fascist.what did you think when we shut down the meat industry they will just let the millions of animals go into the wild to cause more climate change and imbalance the ecosystem? No they will be fucking killed retard
>>85258978>continious factory farming pollutes less than ending factory farmingyour IQ is 70 max
>>85258976>You think that's a threat?Little niggas mad someone pointed out his faggotry, classic
>>85258991*continuous
>>85258991Don't know what level of reading comprehension I expected from an indian mud person
>>85258993you're threatened by someone wanting to see you in real life... sad! Only comfortable behind the screen
>>85259002>trash-level reasoning>"y-y-y-ou're indian"uh oh brain's at max capacity
>>85251973I clicked on one of the egg related clickbait videos of this bald bitch and it was 10 minutes of straight up lies. I actually read the study he "referenced" as a vehicle to shill his website and books.The study was completely legit and well researched and it boiled down to people who eat more [ie. fat] being less healthy. People who eat more eat more eggs. Riveting stuff. The study even went through specific food-related correlations and specifically stated that controlling for bodyfat renders the effect of egg consumption negligible.If you want to go vegan because you feel violence against animals is wrong, that's completely fine. However it melts my brain to think that there are career fraudsters like him who make their living convincing people to ruin their health.
>>85259085Yeah niggas are just retarded.I'm just going to continue eating over easy and scrambled eggs and no one will stop me. Boohoo vegans.
>>85252392i wonder what sort of psychological effect this has on the guy manually placings thousands of babies into the machine every day
>>85253653As if young girls aren't also vaxxraped? Migger please
>>85251016And plants are living that's life a cycle of cannibalism and consumption.
>>85252357>That doesnt address human children or adults who dont have the potential to reasonNTA but discarding the invalids would cause significant distress to their relatives. It is important to remain pragmatic when discussing such outliers. A stillborn might be less conscious or societally useful than a chicken, but if treated without dignity the impacts would be severe. Things do not exist in a vacuum.
>>85259191Studies show slaughterhouse workers have very high rates of violent crime, alcoholism, ptsd, domestic violence etcBanning animal agriculture could have so many positive externalities like reduced pandemic risk
>>85252540There are no personal solution to systemic problems. If you cant sleep at night after eating animal products, do as you please. Personally, fixating on an issue you are powerless to change seems like an incredibly primitive philosophy to me. The more enlightened approach is to come to peace with reality and remove yourself from the brutal and garrish things in life as much as you can. Only this way can you reach peace of mind.
>>85252829NTA but those cells could not be reasonably assumed to grow into a human. Get better talking points.
>>85259237The links and studies in the op show that you personally as an individual can spare hundreds of animals each months of torture by simply boycotting animal productsYou cant stop the Ukraine war by yourself but you can refrain from being a serial killer
>>85259236What an absurd claim. If you revoked the privilege of meat consumption, people would quickly overthrow your status quo. "Fewer plagues" would NOT be the outcome of such policy.The cogs keep on turning irrespective of your arguably justified horror.
>>85259259>The links and studies in the op show that you personally as an individual can spare hundreds of animals each months of torture by simply boycotting animal productsAre you being facetious? The cause of cruelty is the demand for animal products. The demand of society is not shaped by the demand of the individual. If you become a cult leader and convince an entire city to boycott meat consumption, then sure, a company might decide to ship X less products to that specific town but (You) as an individual have zero bearing on supply chains.In short, your personal martyrdom results in no change of note.
>>85251060"you vil eat ze bug and the onions and you vil be happy"
>>85259337I posted plenty of evidence in the OP links that individual boycott does make a difference
>>85259348vegans who are allergic to so y exist
>>85251163Not at one day old they don't.
>>85252716based life respector; a point of light in the darkness
>>85252797Part of a human, it's acceptable to remove it because of bodily autonomy. A fetus is genetically distinct to a far greater degree than a tumor and has the morphology of a human being. As for removing a fetus from a woman's body? I think that's a decision a woman can make, however I will regard it as murder which cannot and should not carry the penalty of criminal punishment. Similarly I consider eating meat to be inextricable from murder and rape, however it too cannot and should not practically carry a criminal penalty.
>>85251016Anon, I love animals. I have birds, fish, my dog died recently (19 years old, miss you you little shit), and I will buy land where I'll have chickens and cows, maybe sheep. As you may imagine, I hate animal cruelty.However, I cook. I love cooking, and I love eating good food. I won't stop cooking or eating animals because of this. That being said, if I had things my way, I would happily trade my ability to readily purchase the meat I consume in exchange for the ability to acquire it through my own means. I don't have a boat, so I can only do inshore fishing, but the waters are overfished or polluted. I don't have wilderness around me to go hunt for birds or ruminants. So, I buy meat. I don't like it and once I have my own land, I'm going to treat my animals with love and care, and when the time comes, yes, I'm going to eat them, and I'm going to be thankful for their sacrifice that I believe I will have atoned for with providing as quality a life as I could. I'm going to use as much of their bodies as I can to not dishonor them. This is in lieu of the ability to go hunting easily.For now, I'm just going to have to buy meat.
>>85256142I think you're just retarded, you're taking one little thing about what I'm saying and being really literal about it. Of course a person asleep or in a coma is going to be conscious soon when they wake up lol. An unborn fetus baby made up of a thousand cells has no memories or anything and has never been conscious.This is literally THE reason most people agree that abortion should be legal lol it's the opposite of retarded it's what most people think.
