In the words of physicist Anton Zeilinger:> [W]e always implicitly assume the freedom of the experimentalist... This fundamental assumption is essential to doing science. If this were not true, then, I suggest, it would make no sense at all to ask nature questions in an experiment, since then nature could determine what our questions are, and that could guide our questions such that we arrive at a false picture of nature.How is this not a form of cope? “Waaah, the observer effect isn’t le special, waaah”. Oh grow up. Observation doesn’t predate the thing - the physics leading up to it - making it even possible to begin with. How the fuck did people suddenly forget this?WHY do people think that free will is Lolsorandom?
Free will has a makeup like anything else in existence. It will always be an illusion or construct of a kind. You still struggle ordering sandwiches. Choice isn’t infinite and you can’t just choose to be a turtle.
>>16958203Neither is believing that things literally come out of fucking bum fuck nowhere
>>16958190> WHY do people think that free will is Lolsorandom?Religious tier thinking. It’s akin to believing nothing came before God. Perhaps there -is- basest essence to existence, somewhere down the line, but it surely isn’t quantum randomness. I doubt it’s something humans can ever assess.
>>16958190Ok look if you just divide the size of goalpost in the size of the ball you will know where the ball will go in to the exact point if you just simulate all points as once
>>16958190Lol YUP
>>16958190These fucking people…….
>>16960735kek
>>16960735Depressing stuff
.
>>16958190Indeterminism is a form of hope
>>16965268Touché
>>16958190It is lingering trait of the religious mind. Humans truly see themselves as divine. Or at least in tune with it. In tune in such a way as to be separate from the inseparable. Hm.
>>16967019Because we are, retard.
>>16958190Yes.
>>16958190He looks Jewish.
>>16958190>How is this not a form of cope?It's not coping with anything. You're just getting filtered by a high-IQ scientist pointing out a glaring fault and an internal inconsistency in your worldview.
>>16960735Gay.
>>16970609fk jew gon do boudit?
>>16960735It's shocking the absolute slop many physics professors indulge in.
>>16958190Yes
>>16972860Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
>>16958190he's criticising superdeterminism wherein all our statistical experiments are just coincident with a false result
>>16976120He's pointing out that belief in determinism amounts to a denial of the capacity for reason.
>>16976120>wherein all our statistical experiments are just coincident with a false resultNonsense. Absolute nonsense.
>>16958190i don't understand this line of thinking. science is about synchronizing information in a closed system (our brain) with information from the outside (the world/observational things), nothing about superdeterminism, standard determinism, or non-determinism changes that reality. people like Anton would absolutely squirm if they studied something like behavorial biology.
>>16976146>i don't understand this line of thinking.It's simple: under the determinist religion it is perfectly possible that you are predetermined to always ask the wrong questions, get misleading answers, reach bogus conclusion and be obliviously satisfied with them. You are not free to apply reasoned judgment under determinist ideology.
>>16976148under no circumstance is subjective probability ever 1, so i do not see how this is relevent even in determinist or superdeterminist contexts
>>16976156>under no circumstance is subjective probability ever 1What is this pseudbabble supposed to mean?
>>16976160not pseudbabble, just grade school probability theory. there is no 100% certainty about any observation, except perhaps trivially true things (i.e. things exist, observations can be made, etc. but even those are observations that can be wrong). nothing about determinism changes the reality that all observations have uncertainty, even if the likelihood of uncertainty approaches epsilon
>>16976165>nothing about determinism changes the reality that all observations have uncertaintyIt does, though, as you've conceded by making up pseud terminology about "subjective probability" in a world where anything has a probability of exactly 0 or exactly 1.
>>16960735This guy masturbates to n public, and I've told him as much on Quora
>>16976146Thinking you're a legitimate scientist in a deterministic universe is like thinking you're a legitimate detective in an interrogation room where the suspect puts all the questions in your mouth.
>>16976174dunning, meet >>16976186 kruger
>>16976262I was just telling you what the idea you admitted to getting filtered by was, no need to seethe at me.
>>16976186>thinking in a deterministic universe
>>16958190i can't determine that.
>>16976186>Thinking you're a legitimate scientist in a deterministic universe is like thinking you're a legitimate detective in an interrogation room where the suspect puts all the questions in your mouth.I guess that works out if the universe is God's intelligible clockwork design, which God intended for you to figure out. Just more proof that determinism is a Christian doctrine.
>>16958190>and that could guide our questions such that we arrive at a false picture of natureWhy would it do that? I would rather assume that if there was no free will and everything was determined then every question and every answer would be equally correct, since predetermined interactions would lead to predetermined outputs, so there would be no "incorrect" answers, rather you would get exactly what you asked for.
>>16977800>my IQ is 75 by the way
Duh
>>16960735I can’t even fathom how or what these people go through to reach such a point in their lives where they cope this hard.
>>16958190For the most part yes
too many i love science redittors here
>>16960735What????
Without religion what moral consensus would you have upon which to build a society?The concepts of good and evil are inherently rooted in religion, nature is amoral thusly devoid if good and evil.>well just write our own moral codeCongratulations, you just discovered state-religion.
To further nail the point home, without freewill no one is accountable for their actions meaning a collapse in morality and the structures of power that depend upon their moral legitimacy to be an authority.When you deny God, your reject that morality framework, so how do i know you dont believe in eating babies and killing people.
>>16986144I thought /sci/ were smarter than this, even /x/ understands this concept better than /sci/.
>>16988465Free will, determinism, consciousness...these topics are beyond most STEMfags and engineers. Only high IQ and some schizos obsess over metaphysics topics like these. If you ever have been around "smart" engineers and PhDtards, you will know most of them are stupid as fuck but they can pass classes for a degree and job.
>>16988492The overwhelming majority of philosophers are determinists.
>>16990071>the overwhelming majority of philosophically minded aren’t stupid God I hope so.
>>16990071>The overwhelming majority of philosophers are determinists.You hallucinated this deterministically because you're a nonsentient object.
>>16988492>>16988465desu, I do think that in the same way that the /x/ tard can be smarter than you think.actually knowing stuff to be a good STEMfag is good for the soul in some way , its problably a dynamic we need to break away from in some way , but it does balance itself out, other than STEMfags having all the money and success of course. (if we ignore wierd uses of manifestation).
>>16991215for the record, I am just a /x/ fag that tries to meditate on what science is ment to be, completly disconected with this thread and board, I am saying this, because I think a slap fight is going to happen against one of the anons, I am responding too.
>>16990071Most modern philosophers are frauds too scared of losing their academic tenures to explore ideas outside of those accepted by mainstream materialism.
>>16991345This is all fantasy fiction. Materialist determinism has been a fringe anti-science ideology for the last 60 years at least.
>>16991345If you mean they are they are determined to be unthinking slave chattel turned out by government indoctrination camps, I agree.
Nazi Germany philosophers: all work to justify nazi propaganda (ubermensch, race theory and other deranged shit)Soviet philosophers: all work to justify soviet propaganda (Marxist dogmatics, atheism, vulgar materialism, mindless lunacy recited by people who know that they are talking bullshit to people who know that they are talking bullshit)Modern US philosophers: all work to justify the current thing propaganda (negative of the nazi race theories, abortion as the highest virtue, transgenderism, all utterly deranged)Why is philosophy like that? What the fuck is wrong with you people? Why can't you be like Ancient Greeks?This makes me think that philosophy as a field of study is truly finished, and has been for a long time. And people who call themselves philosophers now are just propaganda workers dressed up as academics to boost views.
>>16991782If you wanted modern philosophers to behave like greeks, you would expect endless homages to capeshit as a grounding for all good.
>>16991791even that would be better than the last 100 years of public self humiliation
>>16958190lmao
How is determinism compatible with quantum physics? Genuine question.
>>16992764>How is determinism compatible with quantum physics? Genuine question.The very fact that determinists don't see any issue here and will say quantum randomness is irrelevant on the macro scale, is an admission that determinism is subjective.
