Most would agree that Humans are a very violent species, and some think that aliens are aware of us and our violence and avoid contacting us for this reason. A lot of people naively assume that aliens are going to be far more peaceful than we are. I think this assumption is flawed, because by the very nature of being a civilization and the master of its home planet a species had to by necessity become the most dominant species of that planet. Its hard to conceive how this level of dominance could have been achieved in the first place without violence. If you're a peaceful herbivore species like a deer, you're probably not going to evolve into an advanced civilization on your world. Predators are inherently more intelligent than Prey, because they have to be. Being a predator is a prerequisite for becoming sentient and developing a civilization in the first place.That being said, it might be possible for a civilized species to shed its violent tendencies after it managed to reach that threshold, but I think being violent is necessary to get there in first place. Maybe an alien civilization shed its violent past, but I think in studying their evolutionary history there will always be a lot of hunting and warfare before it got to that point. Even if they do manage to eventually shed that, it is naive to take it as a given and just assume that they would. That's why I think it is a terrible mistake to try to speed-rush our way towards making contact with some alien species. We don't know what is out there, but whatever is out there that has risen to the top of the foodchain of its planet has managed to do so for a reason and that reason is probably NOT because they are benevolent pacifist hippies. Don't be naive.
>>16981035There are a few of UFO incidents where we fought with a UFO.Iranian fighter pilot attempts to shoot at UFO and the UFO shoots back in 1976:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64uFqUv23v4&list=PLaXr8NoZavXNZnOS7cij_RXF7msnlM1Gj&index=9UFO makes US military pilot and jet dissapear forever:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZTYhwwq4tc&list=PLaXr8NoZavXNZnOS7cij_RXF7msnlM1Gj&index=7US soldiers attacked by a UFO in the korean war:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E85-tQ2lO_I&list=PLaXr8NoZavXNZnOS7cij_RXF7msnlM1Gj&index=32Fighter pilot crashes after attempting to intercept UFO:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNMe2Gfniqg&list=PLaXr8NoZavXNZnOS7cij_RXF7msnlM1Gj&index=62
>>16981035Humans have become progressively less violent over time. Civilization acting as a monopoly of force reduces the proportion of our individual lives which are dedicated to violence as engaging in that behavior threatens the monopoly which has ample resources to crush you. This is a trend which is expected to continue with various peaks and troughs but overall unidirectional momentum.This is all a lot of words to say that more advancement tends to equal less violence, even if the capacity to commit violence increases. So one should expect a civilization much more advanced than ours to generally be less violent.>some think that aliens are aware of us and our violence and avoid contacting us for this reasonThat's kinda a stupidly speculative take, thoughbeit. If we were the aliens visiting a planet with a tribal species, I highly doubt how "grug smash" they are at this point in their development would really impact our willingness to contact them.
>>16981035tl;dr but it is quite probable such viloent civilization destroys itself before finding us
>>16981197>Civilization acting as a monopoly of force reduces the proportion of our individual lives which are dedicated to violenceThat doesn't tell you much about a civilization's predisposition towards collective violence.>one should expect a civilization much more advanced than ours to generally be less violentNo, you'd only expect its individuals to have less aggressive predispositions on a personal level. But you're making claims about the dynamics between different civilizations. If anything, your premise suggests a race of powerless individuals whose personal opinions about violence decide nothing on that level.
>>16981264It's a valid concern but I think you're overselling it a touch. Collective violence demands individual aggression at some stage, even if it's not a 1:1 correspondence. The leaders must make the decision to apply violent force. There must be a subset of the population whose job it is to carry out that force. As the population becomes more pacified, those entrusted to enact collective force become less competent at it (see: police forces in Europe when dealing with foreign criminals). Now there is a legitimate question whether they'd see us as "human" insofar as considerations one would take when thinking to carry out violence. Their relationship to us may end up becoming similar to our relationship to ants if they ever consider the possibility of colonizing our world. But this kinda escapes the whole "violent vs peaceful" framing entirely.
>>16981035It will likely be what happened with columbus and the natives. Diseases included. Some say viruses have an alien origin.
>>16981890>Collective violence demands individual aggression at some stage>As the population becomes more pacified, those entrusted to enact collective force become less competent at it (see: police forces in Europe when dealing with foreign criminals).I can tell you're not a member of an advanced civilization, anon, because you still think about violence in caveman terms. I wouldn't worry about European police competence that much. It won't be a problem soon because you're gonna find out what "monopoly on violence" really means. The people who run this world don't feel shit when they slaughter millions, anon, and the people they run over don't do shit. That's what individual nonaggression begets in reality.
>>16981068I also forgot about this fighter jet incident from peru in 1980 where a UFO performed evasive maneuvers when about to be shot: https://youtu.be/Q0gkgQOgWj8
If there are a million alien civilizations out there, some are bound to be extremely friendly, others are bound to be extremely hostile
>>16981035If aliens ever came down to trade with us, i really hope we would tell them to fuck off. We should not be manipulated into trading for tech that we aren’t ready to have yet
Compare how violent are humans today compared to humans in the past. Now multiply that for thousands of years that the aliens would have lived in a much more technologically advanced society. The logical conclusion is that they should be extremely rational and cold, not just violent. Now, they can be very rational and cold but also not benevolent. Imagine that they are searching for a new planet because their home planet is dying, they come here and there is now way to share the planet with us. In that scenario they can decide to exterminate all humans and take the planet for them being very rational and cold but also not being benevolent.
I also read the three body problem series
>>16981197>That's kinda a stupidly speculative take, thoughbeit. If we were the aliens visiting a planet with a tribal species, I highly doubt how "grug smash" they are at this point in their development would really impact our willingness to contact them.You wouldn't avoid contacting a primitive and violent species out of fear that they would be a threat to your civilization (though they might be a thread to the individuals that made this contact, depending on how violent they are). But one solid reason not to make that contact is for that primitive species' sake, as a sort of "prime directive" like that in Star Trek. If you insta-jumped an intelligent species from their stone age to a space age without allowing them to progress naturally along the incremental stages to get their on their own, then you've robbed them of whatever distinct history and culture they might have otherwise developed. For example, consider the culture that Japan has today where it was allowed to develop in isolation for centuries before it was finally forced to modernize and then contrast that with Native Americans who just got crushed or were "modernized" onto reservations in a hurry and got robbed of everything they might have otherwise been had they been left alone to develop naturally. That's the gist behind the "prime directive" and why its considered unethical to insta-jump a race and bypass their natural progression. But every alien civilization will have their own ideology and some would disagree; and still others might just opt to wipe out or enslave those primitives. As much as you may like to believe otherwise, there's quite a few humans who would be fine with wiping out or enslaving primitive aliens if they could do so.That said, another possible issue with insta-jumping a primitive violent species is even if they're not a threat to you in their primitive state, they could become a threat after you elevated them to your level. Again, consider the Japanese as an example.
>>16981035>Most would agree that Humans are a very violent speciesThis is incorrect. Even within our own species, cultures like the Moriori, Semai, and the Old Europeans (Europe before Indo-Europeans) had very peaceful and egalitarian societies. Even certain religious groups like the Jains or Buddhist Monks in South Asia had strong pacifistic values. The thing is all of those societies were wiped out by very aggressive and militaristic societies that became more relevant in shaping the world, so you are correct in that regards. But we are left with a survivorship bias showcasing human nature as being violent, in reality we are only left with violent ones.>but I think in studying their evolutionary history there will always be a lot of hunting and warfareAlien biology could be fundamentally different from ours. Maybe they don't hunt and get their energy from photosynthesis or filter feeding. Instead of war they might solve conflicts with ritual dancing or sexual acts. These might sound ridiculous but even on Earth different species use these things. Better yet if they are this advanced, perhaps they have some resource printer or some supercomputer that avoids conflicts all together. >That's why I think it is a terrible mistake to try to speed-rush our way towards making contact with some alien speciesWith that I still agree with you. Even though I don't believe an advanced alien civilization is anywhere near us, trying to make contact is a bad decision cause anything can happen.
>>16981035>Most would agree that Humans are a very violent speciesnah, that's just liberal faggot nihilism. they need something to complain about so they can pretend to the higher moral ground.
>>16981035the ability to become violent when needed is valuable in nature, if an organism is always violent it won't have enough altruism to dominate like humans have done
