What I find mysterious about consciousness is the idea that a bunch of unrelated and independent atoms that make up your brain can interact in such a way to create your subjective experience. It's mysterious how something can be greater than the sum of its parts in this way. And it occurs to me that we know of another phenomenon similar to this: quantum entanglement, the phenomenon where two particles have a relation to each other, and thus they're not really independent of each other and together form something greater than the sum of their parts. So what if our subjective experience is related to this phenomenon or is in fact a version of this phenomenon?
>>16987935consciousness is just the monodromy around the puncture produced by the first person pronoun in the semantic state space of natural language, just like how entanglement is a consequence of symmetry even without hidden variablest. pseud with a big vocabulary
>>16987936What happens in the second-person world?
>>16987954i don't know, maybe you can tell me?
>>16987957NO YOU.
>>16987957underrated
>>16987935The Qualia Research Institute guys seem to believe something like this.https://qualiacomputing.com/2024/07/30/costs-of-embodiment/My understanding is that they admit that in principle it's possible to simulate the functional behavior of a human with classical computers, but this is very computationally expensive and requires very deliberate design compared to the quantum implementation which would explain why we evolution didn't make zombies out of us but digital versions of ourselves would be.
Consciousness is not a fundamental property, but emergent from the greater pattern. If you pause a universe and dig into a living system, you won't see any consciousness-stuff. It appears that consciousness is an emergent property of a mechanism which can be created, understood, replicated, and improved.
we do not live in a world of things, but a world of processes. wake up.
>>16988765>emergent from the greater patternOf what?>inb4 muh neuron activity patternEven a low-grade midwit should be able to see this is a category error.
>>16987957>What about the third-person world?He wondered.
Consciousness is quantum and seems to suggest the idea of "The Soul" being a real thing. Recent real world experiments with mice and anesthesia seem to suggest Penrose is correct and consciousness is indeed quantum and not computational. The vast majority of "settled science" is just midwit losers grifting for grant money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reductionhttps://www.wellesley.edu/news/wellesley-teams-new-research-on-anesthesia-unlocks-important-clues-about-the-nature-of-consciousness
>>16988821No amount of quantum stuff will get you closer to solving the hard problem and no amount of cope will save the idea of a soul
From the perspective of being within a single timeline, we can't ever solve the quantum problem with an incomplete dataset. We don't know what happened in the branches we can't observe, which is every single other branch. We may be able to crack the mystery under a simulation though, but creating an accurate enough simulation requires completed laws of physics and a way to measure matter configurations with perfect fidelity. So, we are basically fucked.
>>16987935Yes this is basically correct.The alternative is dualism, though every dualist is in denial about their dualism.
>The alternative is dualism, though every dualist is in denial about their dualism.
>>16988859You probably think something like "consciousness emerges from computational processes" or some reddit tier pseudointellectual statement like that.This is simply dualism. There is no magical world of "computational processes".
>>16988864Not in the tangible sense, but in the abstract sense of "given calculation always has given answer" there is such a place. We just can't access it directly.
>>16987935Amazing isn't it? God is great.
>>16987935As we age, we stack up memories and perceived experiences which grant us the illusion of consciousness. Some people behave like animals and never even experience this illusion. Maybe ignorance is bliss as The Matrix taught us.
>>16987954Prehaps we're already living in 2d...The cartesian system with its x y z coordinates results with the observer being a 3rd party.>we do not view ourselves, we view from ourselves.Picture a ball, it can face in any 3d direction by spinning in 2d. If space doesn't exsist then you're not actually moving through the 3rd dimension, the same way gravity can be said not to be a force that pulls.The 3rd dimension is a scam, just like gravity is a scam. I hope you can understand the congruence.
>You probably think something like "consciousness emerges from computational processes" or some reddit tier pseudointellectual statement like that.>This is simply dualism. There is no magical world of "computational processes".
>>16987935Everything that interacts is "entangled", you're entangled with the ground right now. If you mean the weird "spooky" shit, you probably mean superposition, but that's extremely fragile.
>>16988898>i heckin love science!
consciousness isn't actually something real/significant. It's just a made up word for something that doesn't exist, an illusion. The only reason people gaslight themselves into believing it's significant is narcissism. They desperately want to believe they're more important than a rock on some fundamental conceptual level.
>consciousness isn't actually something real/significant. It's just a made up word for something that doesn't exist, an illusion.>The only reason people gaslight themselves into believing it's significant is narcissism. They desperately want to believe they're more important than a rock on some fundamental conceptual level.
>>16988935>an illusionbut anon... who/what is witnessing the illusion?
>>16988937A figment of the universe's imagination, which has the audacity to consider itself conscious.
@16988941>t.
>It's mysterious how something can be greater than the sum of its partsthis is just quantity changing into quality. like how an anthill is greater than its ants
>>16988990>this is just quantity changing into qualityThere's exactly zero examples of this happening except via subjective perception itself. Muh "emergent phenomena" depend on consciousness in the first place so they can't explain consciousness itself.
