First and foremost I want to say that this has absolutely nothing to do with politics, just the subject of trans surgery from an anatomy point of view. What I find particularly grizzly and dangerous is the notion that you can turn surgically remove or change perfectly working sex organs. It seems absolutely preposterous that any sort of medical or scientific expert can entertain the idea of changing a vagina into a penis, (or vise versa,) as they are completely separate functioning organs. Furthermore, I believe it to be an obvious violation of the Hippocratic Oath. I understand that patients are mentally plagued by the sight of their sex organs if they are suffering from dysmorphia, however I believe it would be like giving an anorexic patient liposuction simply based off the fact that they see an obese person in the mirror despite being dangerously underweight. I know there is debate as to the success of these surgeries treating a patients dysmorphia successfully, however there is also evidence that it's a temporary effect that still leads the patient to a lifetime of therapy both physical and mentally. Are there any arguments that I'm missing here? I'm genuinely trying to understand this.
lobotomy was a thing, and this is not very far offi guess there is a certain personality trait that finds these kinds of interventions appealing, on both patient and surgeon sideas long as it's voluntary, you shouldn't care
>>16995644>on both patient and surgeon side>as long as it's voluntary, you shouldn't careI completely agree with this sentiment, however that's sorta the point of the Hippocratic Oath isn't it?
>>16995640The whole transgender "healthcare" industry perhaps has been one of the most successful ideological interventions in clinical care.If the whole idea of transgender surgeries seems well off the beaten path of what you'd consider healthcare then take a look at WPATH. Some insane shit out of that organization.
Many "smart" people become obsessed with feeding their egos and doing things that are truly evil just to be "cutting edge" or to be the first to do XYZ and have zero morals or empathy. They are a special type of evil where high IQ is married with sociopathic personalities. Von Braun the nazi father of the US Apollo Space programs watched tens of thousands of slave workers die in his rocket factories and built guided rockets to bomb civilians and his only concern was getting funding and materials to do his "science". That's why he was so easy to buy off and send to America. He had zero convictions, zero politics, zero morals, he only cared about rocket science and didn't care how many people had to die for him to feed his ego. Same with the transgender doctors. They are pure evil married with high IQ hiding behind white lab coats. The scientist/doctor with zero morals and zero compassion is the most dangerous archetype of human on the server senpai.
If you hate your body so much that you want to chop body parts off it, is that really going to cure your body dysphoria? As someone who has studied trans suicides and met trans people before all this stuff kicked off it's a very messy topic. Even the earliest attempts at trans surgery that are public knowledge resulted in suicide. These people need counselling and to learn to accept their bodies rather than being empowered to mess with themselves. Pretty much everyone has parts of their bodies they do not like, you just have to accept it and move on, you have more important stuff to do. Look at people who get plastic surgery, most people can afford it once or twice in their lives but a lot of people with money go overboard and have tons of procedures to keep themsleves looking how they want. BBL surgery only looks good in pictures from certain angles, you see a video of them walking normally and they look weird as fuck in most cases. This is a psychology thing, your body isn't perfect and probably never will be. Just accept it.
>>16995640First and foremost I want to say that this has absolutely nothing to do with politics, just the subject of transphobia from a psychological point of view. What I find particularly disturbing and dangerous is that utterly unqualified individuals insert themselves into what should be a scientific discussion because they think their irrational feelings are as valid as the medical consensus.
>>16995856If proposing simple questions causes you to get angry like this then perhaps you should find a safe space and let the adults talk.
>>16995856>psychologicalnot a science
>>16995640The Hipoccratic oath is folklore, the correct term is dysphoria and surgery does help the patient feel better psychologically, which makes them healthier.The fact that you couldn't even get the symptoms right shows you didn't even bother looking it up, you only wanted to stir shit up.
>>16996143see>>16995856>and surgery does help the patient feel better psychologically, which makes them healthier.https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apa.70533>Severe psychiatric morbidity is common among gender-referred adolescents and appears to be more prevalent in those referred after the recent surge in referrals. Psychiatric needs do not subside after medical gender reassignment.You were saying?
True that's why you should have no respect for people with hair transplants
>>16996186Getting a hair translpant doesn't require you to surgically remove a perfectly functioning sex organ you retard wtf are you talking about
>>16995856Is it a scientific discussion when trannies are raping high schoolers? Or is it exactly where it belongs. And it will never change. Like sex.
>>16996143>>16996182Ive seen this circular conversation plenty of times. They say that trans surgery helps with their dysmorphism, then you will come back with the fact that psychiatric morbidity stays the same or results in suicide. They will then claim that its because of transphobia but if thats the case, then the trans surgery really isn't viable any longer now is it?
Sorry you fell for the trans psyop, first it was the tide pods.....
>>16995640It prevents them from showing up in suicide statistics and you collect a ton of money for performing the care.You can search for a "cure" later. Welcome to modern medicine.
>>16995655You will always be disabled. Your stumps or spinal incision have healed without infection, excessive pain, adhesions, granulomas, or foetid smell. There is no need for such maintainence as pessaries, daily dialation, further surgery to correct complications or side effects from steroidal hormones. No one can remotely plausibly say, "you will never be disabled" or "you don't really belong in a wheelchair". You can compete in the Special Olympics and without having any unfair advantage.You could not care less how people refer to you in the third person. You will never be remotely concerned about "passing". People will look at you and see what is self-evident: that you are what you are, a disabled person. Strangers, rather than looking at you and thinking "what a disgusting freak" will instead think "poor thing, it must have been a terrible accident".
>>16995640We literally perform orchiectomies on pets and farm animals all of the time. If you need to justify why its ok for trannies, say you want us out of the gene pool / it cuts our degenerate sex drive, idk.
>>16996182>2026>Still cherrypicking>meta-analysis found "evidence of low quality" that gender-affirming surgery, particularly chest reconstruction for trans men, improves quality of life.[71] A 2022 systematic review found that gender-affirming surgical procedures led to "reduced rates of suicide attempts, anxiety, depression, and symptoms of gender dysphoria along with higher levels of life satisfaction, happiness and QoL after gender-affirming surgery."[72] A 2024 systematic review found that genital surgeries significantly improved depression and dissociation in trans and gender-diverse individuals, with "mixed results" for other mental health outcomes. It concluded there was "less conclusive evidence" of mental health improvement after trans surgical procedures compared to hormonal therapy, though expressed tentative support for both.
>>16995640>Hippocratic OathHoly fucking retardo. It's literally not a thing.They just say that in the movies to sound dramatic.That said gender """"""""""affirming""""""""""" surgery is deeply amoral yes
>>16996626see>>16996276
>>16996608Castration doesn't involve turning the animals dick into a """"""pussy"""""
>>16995640At the heart of this issue is the fact that people seem to have fundamentally different ontologies about what constitutes personhood. Transgenders and their allies seem to define aspects of personhood by what experiences a person "has" for themselves, whereas trans-critical people define personhood by what experiences a person "produces" in others.So before any further argument proceeds, we should survey the landscape of psychology and ask which other aspects of personhood are definable in terms of either "having" experiences or "producing" experiences, and how they themselves might be categorized.
>>16995670>>16995655>>16995687>>16995836Oh, sorry fags, I wasn't continuing, I was dropping >>16997071 here so you would stop circle jerking and form an actual argument. I'm gonna go eat.
>>16997071Personally I believe it's impossible to "feel" like the opposite sex. The concept of "a woman trapped in a mans body" seems to invoke the same kind of cosmic miracle akin to God producing miracles or anomalies, or magic.
