Red light therapy ( RLT ) is becoming increasingly popular. I smelled a scam but surprisingly there are plenty of scientific studies which show health benefits for skin conditions, arthritis, and aiding muscle recovery from injury.That said there are also plenty of sharks trying to sell RLT devices for home use, trying to make a quick buck.I dont want it for myself but for my dog who is old and arthritic. I know her time is coming but I want to ease it as much as possible. And yes, there are RLT products out there for dogs, and yes the prices being asked are fucking insane. I smell scammers taking advantage of desperate and ignorant people. Making ridiculous claims and selling just about any red light emitting device as RLT, with very little way for consumers to verify the quality and effectiveness.Which leaves me, with only a High School education, asking some questions.As I understand it direct sunlight is all colors. So by just by being in direct sunlight the body should be absorbing a dose of red and near infrared light anyway. So whats so special about sitting under a red bulbs or LED light? Unless you live in a frequently cloudy climate.From what I have read the main wavelengths used in RLT are 630-670nm, 810-850nm and 1070nm. Is there any simple and cheap way I can produce these wave lengths at home for my dog without being suckered into RLT devices which I really cant afford anyway. Is an ordinary $5 red light bulb just as good as some fancy array of red LEDs which cost hundreds, even thousands of dollars?Discussion of RLT welcomed.Knowledge, experience and advice all appreciated.Also, please dont ask me to go ask on reddit. They are the blind leading the blind. I hope to get some sensible insights here.
>>>/x/
>>17000850No its not /x/ tier. There are clinical studies showing that used properly RTL has proven medical benefits.https://med.stanford.edu/news/insights/2025/02/red-light-therapy-skin-hair-medical-clinics.htmlBut if you choose to be stupid and ignorant then its you who should go to /x/
>>17000850Why are some people her violently opposed to discuss this? In a very jewish way. I dont think its great but these violent "dont talk about it goyim" responses will make me look into it. /sci/ really is a pretty jewish board, see their unreasonable defense of relativity.
>>17000850But it combats balding, little fapper.
>>17000841the red light stimulates the mitochondria in cells, making them produce energy more efficientlythe mitochondria are what create the little fuel, ATP that your cell uses to do all kinds of thingslots of ATP is needed to repair muscles for instancethe benefit of red light therapy devices is the degree of stimulation, the mitochondria evolved in animals that are outside already, so they aren't going to be supercharged by just being in the sun, but holding a source of red light that close to them can do it in some cases, it can also penetrate deeper into the skin (if you wear sunscreen, your body reflects 99% of the rays)
>>17000939Does it stimulate the mitochondria more due to red light having a higher energy wavelength than other colours?
>>17000841The sun is the best red-light you can get.The solar spectrum is like 50% near infrared up to around 2500nm.Living in a cloudy environment is not the issue, as infrared passes through clouds easily. If anything, cloudy environments allow fair skinned people to get sunlight without exposure to too much UV.Red light therapy is not a scam, but it is mainly a thing because people are chronically sunlight deprived. Most people spend very little time exposed to sunlight. Buildings, cars and transportation receive basically 0 solar infrared, as windows/walls block it. Also dermatologists, opthomologists, and doctors in general often say avoid the sun at all costsThere are about as many biological processes in your body that utilize infrared as there are incident infrared photons from the sun per second.As for the bulbs, yes you can easily just go buy LEDs in those ranges and comtrol them with some driver. Better yet, get an incandescent lamp. Incandescent lights put out mostly infrared. Incandescent bulbs are actualy the best lights to recreate sunlight indoors for cheap.
>>17001060You have light backwards, anon. Longer wavelengths have less energy.The mechanism is something like:Cytochrome c oxidase (COX) is the fourth and final complex in the electron transport chain of the mitochondria.COX can bind with nitric oxide (NO) and then COX cant donate its electrons to Oxygen.COX has a copper and heme group, and these metal complexes are excellent NIR absorbers.The complex absorbs the low energy NIR photon, and this breaks the bond between COX and NO, allowing ATP production to continue.
>>17001349OP here. Thanks.Incandescent lamps are just your regular old fashioned household light bulbs right? Like what everyone used before LED light bulbs became popular.So basically just buy one of those novelty red light bulbs that go for about $5? Like 60 or 100 watts. Like people might have used in a dark room lab for developing film or as a night light.Its for my dog and I really dont hold out much hope it will do much, but if its cheap and easy enough to do then there is nothing to be lost by trying. A simple desk lamp is only $20 or so. Ive seen special coats full of red LEDs that you can wrap around a dog but they cost hundreds of dollars and honestly it makes me think they are marketed by assholes riding a hype train. No way should it cost anywhere near that much,From what Ive read there seems to be two key factors involved to get any benefit. The intensity of the light and the duration. Too little will do nothing and doing too much will actually reverse the gains. Clinical sessions on human appear to usually be about 15 minutes long several times a week, but those are using powerful emitters. You can purchase weaker ones for home use but then you are talking up towards a thousand dollars, and again I suspect they are just riding a bandwagon. So I am guessing letting a couple of 100 watt red light bulb shine on her for a few hours as she sleeps at night isn't going to do any harm and may do some good. I have always let her lie out in the sun on a warm sunny day anyways.>>17000917No idea why they are like that. But when you think how that 19th century German doctor got vilified for encouraging hand washing inside medical facilities it seems there will always be some narrow minded assholes shooting off their mouths.
>>17000917lmao
>>17001908Flourescent bulbs were also popular, but it is a little harder to get incandescent bulbs after they were soft banned. The government decided that bulbs should have a certain efficiency defined by visible light output relative to energy input. Incandescent bulbs dont meet the standard automatically pretty much because so much of their output is infrared.Intensity and duration matter, but wavelength matters the most, especially if youre trying to find narrow band light. That means if you just buy a random red LED light, it pretty much won't do anything.The reason the redlight devices are expensive is it's usually several specific wavelength LEDs driven at once, and theres technically a lot of effort in wavelength, pulse frequency, intensity, etc. Its not as cheap as youd think to buy several high power NIR LEDs and then wiring them up in a device.I would actualy advise against shinning light on your dog while sleeping. It will actually mess with circadian rhythm.
As you can see its a fucking rabbit hole. Forget the red light therapy. Just put your dog outside every warm day its not raining. So long as you aren't living in northern Sweden or some shit your dog will get all the wave lengths its needs. That will do just as much good as anything else. Buy a thick foam mat for it to lie on outside as well as one for inside. Keeping an arthritic dog comfortable dry and warm is just as important.
>another llm red light thread
>>17002547>As you can see its a fucking rabbit hole. Forget the red light therapy. Just put your dog outside every warm day its not raining.Basically this. For photobiomodulation, you're either targeting a hyper specific process, and then using a single wavelength high watt pulsed instrument specifically selected for that process.Or just get sunlight filtered through foliage.>>17002552Clearly nobody here is using an LLM.
RLT has its uses but its very niche. Mostly for people who dont get proper access to sunlight. Its usually used in conjunction with other treatments. Everything else concerning its use at home, on animals, for hair loss, is basically a scam.For an aging arthritic dog its really not going to make any difference. You are far better off trying other alternative treatments such as CBD oil, giving it some physio, and supplements like mussel powder and fish oil. Even then all of these will have minimal effect or no effect at all, and the effectiveness will wear off over time. Sure, try them but dont expect miracles, maybe something like a 10% improvement that lasts a few months.Anyone saying otherwise is just trying to get you to finance their next overseas holiday.
>>17001060Red light is lower energy, the wave lengths are longer. It however penetrates the skin to a greater depth which makes it effective in reaching deeper into tissue and activating the mitochondria within.Yeah, it does work, but as other anons have pointed out so does getting a daily dose of natural sunlight. Its main benefit is in avoiding harmful UV rays in sunlight and the simple fact that most people dont have the opportunity to go out and relax semi naked for 15 to 30 minutes in the sun every day.So its not bullshit, but I tell you what is: There's a group of people who believe that sunning your asshole is highly benefit for your health. That's right, they go out butt naked and make a point of directing their assholes towards the sun. I kid you not. Imagine getting skin cancer on your ass ring.
OP here.Well I looked around a lot more on line and found a Red Light Therapy device that is sort of like a flexible pad with various LE lights embedded. The product specified wavelengths in the 600 and 800 range which matched what I had read in the literature.Found it for $50 including delivery on aliexpress whereas similar products on specialty RLT sites retail for $200, $400, even more.So yeah maybe I am just buying some Chinese hocum crap but I am pretty sure the other sites are just doing the same only with an insane mark up.Its coming soon so if this thread still exists I will let you know how things progress.
>>17005075>this nigga spent $50 on a LED lightfucking kek, you deserve to get chinked
>>17005081Okay smart ass, so where do I buy a dozen or so LED lights of those specific wavelengths all wired up and sewn inside a pad which can be velcroed around the waist or over the back, complete with a timer and a power source connector for less than $50?Because I looked and there was jack shit for a DIY.Fuck me dude, for this dog I already spend $100 a month on arthritis treatments, another $40 or so a month on supplements, and the weekly food bill is somewhere around $60.Spending a one off of $50 for a chance to improve her life is just within my remaining budget and worth it.So take a flying fuck ignorant asshole.
>>17000841>health benefits for skin conditions, arthritis, and aiding muscle recovery from injuryit's literally warmth. Red light is heat radiation. Everyone knows warm showers are best for workout recovery, even if some closet gays shill cold showers because they think it sounds tough or whatever(those have other benefits though). You can also use warm pads or pillows. They have been used for ages for joint and muscle pains.>activating muh mitochondriawtf does that even mean? Your mitochondria are active when the cell metabolizes, which if anything makes it age faster.
>>17005161The liberation of cyctochrome c oxidase from nitric oxide in the final complex of the electron transport chain within the inner mitochondrial membrane is well documented. The copper complexs in Cytochrome c oxidase have a broad band absorption that peaks around 830nm and another with a peak around 655nm.Your assertion that "red light is just heat" is about the same "understanding" of physics as your average middle schooler.
Red light therapy trivially will do something because lamps produce heat and red light easily passes through skin.and is absorbed further down.What that does, I don't know, but it probably does do something.
>>17005152look I appreciate you want to help your dog, but you're desperate and desperate people fall for bullshit like this all the time. Spend the time with your dog instead of looking up dumb shit and posting on 4chan about said dumb shit
RLT is real and beneficial but it requires certain wavelengths. As another anon has stated it activates the ATP something which a heat lamp does not do. I see you have done some research and found the ranges. The difficulty now comes with making sure the product you are using actually does use those wavelengths. Many products out there are just whatever red LEDs cobbled together and will not give you any results. Prices can also vary wildly. The second difficulty comes with knowing what dose to give your dog and how often. At a certain point the use of RLT becomes antagonistic, that is over application can undo the gains. In humans the dose and frequency is fairly well understood, but for dogs there really are no proper studies done yet afaik. I suggest starting with a daily dose of 10 to 15 minutes a day and monitor it from there. If there is any improvement it may take up to a month to show.
>>17005206read>>17005199Or just stay stupid, which you seem very good at doing.
>>17000939>the red light stimulates the mitochondria in cells, making them produce energy more efficiently>the mitochondria are what create the little fuel, ATP that your cell uses to do all kinds of things>lots of ATP is needed to repair muscles for instanceNot OP, but isn't that what creatine is for, giving you more ATP? Red light therapy, at least what I've seen it advertised for (picrel), is mainly for skincare benefits. I've taken creatine and have never seen skin benefits from it.So it can't just be that mechanism of action.
>>17006176don't forget to put some red bulbs up your ass so you get the benefits for internal organs too
>>17006318this, also bigger lightbulbs work best since they emmit wider light waves
The answer is simple, Red is the color with the least bothersome photon energy to the eye because it's the longest wavelength
>>17006318Not going to happen because I understand the science. But that's something you would do after your grand father has finished fucking your stupid ass.
I got some rlt when I injured my leg. The physio specialist just said it was just part of their normal practice now.
>>17000917Its fucking voodoo tier bullshit for the gullible. May as well eat some babies foreskins, drink the blood of an arctic quail, shove a bamboo chopstick up your nose. Listen just about anything ANYTHING can be made out to have a beneficial effect on your health if you look for the data that supports your claim ( and ignore anything else ) Then concoct some non falsifiable theory behind it and there you have your latest "scientific" snake's oil. The worse thing is this bullshit is often promoted by people who are in reality nothing more than the intellectual equivalent of lawn mower mechanics. That is to say they are quite competent within the limited scope of their jobs but have absolutely no business mouthing off on subjects they really do not understand.Yeah okay do your stupid ass RLT, make some fuckwit rich selling you a dozen LED lights which cost him pennies, maybe you will get the placebo effect which is real, but using red dye in water and drinking that is cheaper.
>>17008748>but using red dye in water and drinking that is cheaperAI post?
OP here,Received the parcel today. Looks well made. Gave dog her first session today. Will post updates as the weeks go by if this thread remains alive.
>>17000841Roxanne you don’t have to put on the red light
like acupuncture it has some positive effects but is overhyped and overrated.
It shouldn't be surprising I guess, given how many willfully ignorant fuckwits exist, but the number of people who either dismiss it out of hand as a quack remedy or else say something utterly retarded like "Hurr, just use any red light bulb" or "Its just the same as a heat lamp" is astonishing.
>>17002087still easy enough to get incandescent bulbs from specialty shops or online
