Why do some people here do not agree that the purpose of life is survival according to science?
>>17004938Because science does not assign "purpose" to things.
>>17004938Since when has science ever been philosophical?Science is the disappointing son of philosophy.
please describe how to derive the purpose of a system given a description of its material configuration. no cybernetics bullshit allowed.
>>17004945well it depends on what you define "purpose" to be. If you want it to not depend on the person analyzing the system, then it has to be a mechanistic purpose, some meaning to which we can ascribe to ALL things candidates for such are very few in sciencewe basically only have Time flowing in one direction from past -> futuregravity pulling all mass into one point ->o<-and potential energy changing -> to disorder: entropy
>the purpose of a river is to flow downhill
>>17004990>In evolutionary biology, the "purpose" of every living thing is simple: to survive and pass on its genetic information. Organisms are built to adapt to their environments, avoid extinction, and successfully reproduce. Evolution does not plan ahead; it simply selects traits that keep an organism alive long enough to make more of itself
>>17005083>"purpose"Yes, it's in quotation marks because it's not really a purpose. Nothing truly has a purpose in the view of science.
There are plenty of species of animals that completely give up on survival during the last stage of their life so they can reproduce. Some adult insects don’t even have mouths so they starve to death.
>>17005131Most animals do everything they can to survive; what's hard to understand about this?
>>17004938The purpose of life is to be alive temporarilyDo what you want with it
>>17004938>Why do you think the purpose of life is survival according to science?
>>17004938Surviving is just a synonym for living, not a purpose.
>>17004938You would assign multiple purposes to different functions.
>>17005135Salmon don’t
>>17005135Its more a matter of believing than understanding and you haven't made people believe because you don't really have evidence and you can't explain why pretty much any animal in extreme pain will kill itself instead of trying to survive indefinitely with extreme pain.
>>17005598>pretty much any animal in extreme pain will kill itself instead of trying to survive indefinitely with extreme pain.I have never heard of this phenomenon. It's abnormal even among humans where the concept of suicide is actively discussed.
>>17004938your survival is irrelevant as long as you get grandchildren
>>17005642You clearly haven't heard of a lot of things, you probably don't even know about the variety of animals with suicide right in their name who sacrifice themselves to protect the hive.
>>17005650Eusocial species engaging in suicidal self-sacrifice is not remotely the same as an animal committing suicide due to pain.Show me the latter.
>>17005653They are similar in that they disprove >>17005135; what's hard to understand about this?
>>17005653Oh and on top of those examples, there are also animals prone to parasitic infection that commit suicide for the parasite instead of even to protect themselves or their hive.
>>17005654I'm not that other guy. I saw this bizarre claim:>pretty much any animal in extreme pain will kill itself instead of trying to survive indefinitely with extreme pain.And suspected you pulled it out of your ass. Seems to be the case.>>17005655Eusociality in general plays by very different rules from most species. Though I'm still unaware any animal that engages in this unless you're referencing either cordyceps-style mind control or shunning by the hive. In either case it doesn't make the point you're trying to make.
>>17005657No, I pulled it out of the ongoing discussion about animal suicide.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_suicide#Stress-related_self-destructive_behavior> it doesn't make the point you're trying to make.Yes it does, it completely undermines the point about most animals not engaging in suicidal behavior.
>>17005665You said "pretty much any" and said it was in response to pain.Your link shows a handful of anecdotal reports in response to stress. In other words, your original claim was pulled out of your ass.>>17005665>it completely undermines the point about most animals not engaging in suicidal behavior.1. Eusocial animals are a minority. Even if they all engaged in this behavior, that would not support your claim. 2. Parasitic mind control is not suicide. Shunning by the hive is not suicide. They aren't even case examples of the phenomenon you purport is common
>>17005669>our original claim was pulled out of your ass.No, it was too narrow, you are right, extreme physical pain as you are strictly interpreting it isn't the only stress that causes them to do it, they also do it in the face of emotional pain, so it is even more prevalent than I originally presented thanks for the correction and concession.>Parasitic mind control is not suicideIt is when they commit suicide as a result as often is the case.
>>17005672You seem to have missed the part where it's only a handful of anecdotal, unverified reports. If it were nearly as common as you apparently think, then there'd be more than a handful of anecdotes.>It is when they commit suicide as a resultIt's not suicide as they're not the ones doing it. Glad to see you've backed yourself into such a corner where you're trying to argue that death by mind control is suicide.
>>17005676>You seem to have missed the part where it's only a handful of anecdotal, unverified reportsNot true at all, the article doesn't say that, it says many animals do it. You can literally just catch a wild mouse or bird, live trap it in a small cage and watch it go nuts and kill itself from the stress.>It's not suicide as they're not the ones doing it.Yes it is because yes they are.>death by mind control is suicide.Yes when your own mind was convinced you should kill yourself, it is suicide. Is it also not suicide if people tell a retard like you to kys over and over until you eventually do?
