>be on earth, have a spin 0 particle>divide it in two, each can only have spin up or spin down>both particles are in quantum superposition until measured>prepare spaceship for an astronaut>tell him to carry one of the particles with him, we'll leave the other on Earth>my brother is very against this, but I promise I won't measure it so he agrees with the plan>he leaves and travels away from Earth at 86.6% the speed of light>10 years pass on Earth>according to time dilation, 5 years have passed for the astronaut>decide to measure the particle for the lols>wavefunction collapses instantaneously because of non locality>astronaut 5 years after departing notices I measured the particle>he was in cahoots with my brother so he decides to send a message to him to alert him to what I did>in order to do this, he had a second secret particle my brother prepared>he measures it and my brother knows instantly what I did>however, from the perspective of the astronaut, the spaceship is stationary and the earth is the one moving away and experiencing time dilation>according to the astronaut, it's been 5 years in the spaceship but only 2.5 years on Earth>my brother receives the message I measured the particle 7.5 years before I did>he doesn't want me to do it, so he kills me before I have a chance to do it>I never measure the particle, so the astronaut never sends the message and my brother never kills me>my brother never kills me, so I measure the particle and my brother kills meWhat's stopping you from doing this? Would I get in trouble if I attempted this?
>>17035493>find uncertain particle formed before earth existed>fly there and observe it very closely with my eyeballs>billion years old wavefunction finally collapses>butterfly effect happens>moon never forms next to earth>entire history of humanity just disappears
>>17035499this. astronomers using telescopes to observe faraway galaxies is a form of terrorism
>>17035493>astronaut 5 years after departing notices I measured the particleYou have to clarify when the astronaut witnessed you measuring the particle. Was it after he witnessed 10 years go by on Earth, or was it only after he experienced 5 years? The astronaut would have had to experience 20 years himself before seeing something happen on Earth 10 years into its future. But if the astronaut was looking back on Earth and saw that you measured the particle after he had only experienced five years himself, then he would see an Earth that had only aged 2.5 years. Time dilation works both ways. You see the astronaut leaving Earth at 0.866c, while the astronaut sees you and Earth receding at 0.866c. You would see the astronaut experience time at half the rate that you do, but he would see you experiencing time at half the rate he does.
>>17035567Are you a retardoid? The astronaut has a particle entangled with the one on Earth on his ship, and its state changes when the Earth dude measures his. If the astronaut's particle is 100% spin up, then the mate on Earth measured it
>>17035493the "noticing" requires that he measure the particle. no information is conveyed from that about you measuring it or your brother measuring any other particles. it doesn't yield info other than spin
>>17035821ok? I can tell him to measure it after 5 years and see what happens wink wink, if he sees I measured it he'll have me killed if I didn't he won't
>>17035850anon..theres no way when YOU measure a particle to notice whether it was measured or not by an external party.say you don't know your brothr measured the particle and you then measure the particle. from your perspective (not knowing anything about your brother or the state of the other entangled particle) you were the one that collapsed the quantum state.measurement only gives information of the system to the measurer, entanglement works because there is certain rules that make states behave the way they do but at the end of the math it is all probablistic. Measuring a particle tells your brother the other particles state is so and so but it doesn't tell you anything as your brother can't force the particle to be in one state or the other by measuring it. in other words from your persepctive it still is probablistic.basically measuring an entangled particle does nothing as from both reference frames measuring the particle has some degree of randomness. a better philosophical question would be which measurement collapsed the state. was it your measurement intially, or a measurement in the future, does the collapse of the state even depend on time, and how the hell does observation work in quantum mechanics.
>>17035493Have particles in different chambers label 0,1. At a time interval when commination's between the craft would occur. Measure the particles in the craft and create information based on different chambers and combinations.
>>17035493>>astronaut 5 years after departing notices I measured the particleThere's your problem. Your measurement determines his measurement, but he doesn't know your measurement, so his measurement is indistinguishable to randomness for him.
>>17035493entangled particles, particles in superposition, particle you grabbed from somewhere, the particle your lab bro measured last week in secret all look the same in isolation: random to you.Random to ....you. All the quantum stuff going on means someone else with more information available can predict a little bit more than you.quantum mechanics is information physics.
>>17035891>>17035916not to make you look like fools or anyrhing, but if a particle has a 50% chance of having an up spin and if it has a 100% chance of having an up spin, then it is obviously possible to know.for starters, if you measured a down spin, then it's not 100% up, and if you measured an up spin, you can simply measure several times to make sure it has a 100% probability
>>17035998That's not how it works. Two measurements in quick succession will always yield the same result in quantum mechanics. Review your introductions to quantum mechanics textbook. It doesn't matter if they are entangled or whatever. Your particle can't tell you if the entangled partner had been measured.
>>17036005>Two measurements in quick succession will always yield the same result in quantum mechanicsretard you don't need to use the same particle. just bring 100 with you and tell the guy on earth to measure them all or none, nothing in between
>>17035588You simply have no way of knowing if (and when) that particle was measured or not. Measuring your own particle will tell you for sure what the other particle is, but it does nothing in giving you information regarding when that particle's previously entangled wavefunction became decohered (due to someone else measuring it). How are you going to know for certain (while watching the other person supposedly make their measurement) that the wavefunction indeed was collapsed unless you also witnessed the definite state of that other person's particle, without ever having measured your own particle?
>>17036007You can't prepare 100 particles so they all measure spin down, RETARD. You can't even do that with one particle you braindead ape
>>17036020you can know by looking at the wavefunction that LITERALLY changed dumbass>>17036025are you claiming hidden variables don't exist? bold claim, can you link the paper where you read that the pilot wave theory has been debunked sister?
>>17036027>hidden variablesWake me up when they can be measured
>>17036030Which of course will be never because they're inaccessible by definition
>>17036032dark matter can't be detected by definition too, otherwise it wouldn't be dark, and yet the lhc keeps looking for axions
>>17036051>dark matter can't be detected by definitionNo, it has gravity. That said dark matter is probably just an artifact and doesn't actually exist
>>17035493To detect if your particle was measured or not, you would need to keep monitoring it which counts as observation You're retarded
>>17036058>doesn't actually existi'm no matterologist, but i think it is a placeholder to make the math work in some model. could be a bunch of gray areas around stuff already accounted for, or - maybe it's ghosts, spirits of the damned, or other metaphysical materials accumulating over time
>>17036092dumbo, you only have to monitor it once, you might miss it sometimes, but just measuring once is enough to create a time paradox
>>17035493How can particles be "unmeasured" it all? Don't they interact with other particles all the time?
>>17036221they even interact with the vacuum of space lol
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