Schizophrenia drastically reduces fitness and is highly heritable, with 80% being a common figure for how much of it is up to genetics vs environment. People usually don't get it unless a close family member also had some kind of psychotic disorder. So why the hell hasn't it been bred out? I've been googling around for the past half hour and the explanations I've seen include>schizophrenia is a bad construct that actually describes a number of diverse disorders>schizophrenia is actually being selected against and used to be more prevalent>the polygenes implicated in schizophrenia increase fitness when a few are expressed, but when too many are expressed, you get a cliff-edge effect>schizophrenic people in hunter-gatherer societies don't suffer from their hallucinations like westerners do, mitigating its impact on fitness until recently>schizophrenic people in hunter-gatherer societies gained prestige for their families because they were seen as shamans, and their families passed the genes alongWhat does /sci/ think about this question that is relevant to biology and psychiatry and is DEFINITELY NOT OFFTOPIC
>>17037680Evolution means you survive long enough to have kids and those kids survive. If you go schizo at 25 but have had 3 surviving kids beforehand than that's survival of the fittest.
>>17037680Schizophrenia is a modern term used to demonize the shaman/witch doctor/oracle class of humans. It was done to separate us from the divine and the people who helped bridge the gap between civilization and the gods.You notice how mental illness only started becoming a problem for humans in the last 150 years and guess who started the trend?>Jewish minds were extraordinarily prominent and foundational to the birth of modern psychology right from its start in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Rather than joining an already established field, Jewish thinkers were instrumental in building the major architectural pillars of psychology from scratch.Evolution didn't select against it as it wasn't an issue until jews made a whole fake industry to say it was. If you were smart you'd realize nature is smarter than jews. Nature tells you "schizophrenia" is good, it gets passed on. Jews tell you it's bad, demand money to fix it. You retards trust the shisty jew shaking the shekels out of your pockets for pills and billable hours. You're using backwards circular logic trying to say modern psychology is smarter than nature, it's not. Nature is smarter hence you should trust nature. Most "schizophrenic" people are harmless and when left to their own devices do just fine, especially in an environment more natural for the Homo Sapien like hunter-gather tribes. You make giant concrete prison towers called offices and force hairless apes into suits and make them sit under artificial lights 10 hours a day every day. Then you wonder why some don't adapt to this new life of factory farming hell? I mean seriously, wake the fuck up and use your fucking brain. There is nothing wrong with "schizophrenic" people, there is something wrong with the world. inb4 mods try to ban me, not my fault it's always the jews. Jews made psychology and psychiatry. It's historical fact.
>>17037680I was thinking of it myself. My own intuitions:1. Religion gives a place and direction to schizophrenia (as you said)2. Schizophrenia/delusions helps the bottom of society to accept their terrible conditions. Stress is a huge and underrated factor of unreproducibility. There might be a break point where the negative effect in fitness of schizophrenia is actually less worse than that of stress.3. Schizo are actually useful for the hierarchical structure of society, as they weaken the plebs' ability to organize by being nuisance/distractions/unfocusers. You see this shit on 4chan pretty often, with schizo completely derailing discussions.
>>17037694>started becoming a problem for humans in the last 150 yearshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_delusion
>>17037695>schizophrenia/delusions helps the bottom of society to accept their terrible conditions>schizo are actually useful for the hierarchical structure of societyStratified societies have only existed for 20000 years max, and the human genome had been pretty, well, human for long before that. So you need to account for 100,000+ years of HG schizos. Also that's not how evolution works, like, at all. What's good for society is often bad for the individual and vice versa, and natural selection operates pretty much on the organismic level and below except in some hivemind animals>>17037688sure, but the age of onset is usually sometime in your late teenage years, not to mention that there's a latent kind of psychosis you are often in for years before your "positive symptoms" develop (in medical terms this is called being CHR or UHR) and it causes you to be withdrawn and depressed, which also lowers your fitness somewhat. Kids that grow up to be schizophrenic are rarely happy, healthy children and often present with other mental disorders before their first psychosis
>>17037694>oracle classWrong, its popular to believe this though, but any serious look at how ancient religions cultivated their prophets it almost always required lifelong training and a giving over to temple guardianship.Schizophrenics would still have fit under the mentally ill instead, I'm sorry to tell you this since its obvious you romanticize the condition.
Schizo literally HAS been selected-againsthttps://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.09.14.613021v1
>>17037694My seeing cackling demons swooping down from the sky to get me is bad because I say it is, not because Dr. Noseberg told me so. You sound profoundly incurious and frankly unintelligent
>>17037680
>schizophrenic people in hunter-gatherer societies gained prestigeLet' me guess, that's because they hear voices? UwU shamans!Nonsence. Schizos are always take the lowest place in the society. They are disturbing, stupid and dirty. Talking to a schizo is like a talking to a retard who refuses to understand that she's retard. At the same time they are easily influenced by cults and /x/ grade information. >Why hasn't evolution selected against schizophrenia? Did you check the numbers, retard? 0.3% of population.Why it wasn't completely eradicated? Because it progressing slowly and creates real problems beyond reproduction age. At 18 schizo looks slightly quirky, at 60 he'll paint walls with his shit.
>>17037680By that logic there should be no defects in organisms at all.Evolution isn't magic, it can't do everything. If beneficial adaptations work in most but break in some that still works overall.
>>17037680Everyone used to think that voice in their head was god telling them what to do. The world was 100% schizoid. We would eat moldy bread and speak to demons.Things have gotten better.
>>17037857>The world was 100% schizoid. Unlike modern people and their total lack of neuroses, right?>We would eat moldy bread and speak to demons.At least they didn't depreciate soil health and ingest pesticides.
>>17037766You glow in the dark.
schizophrenia/psycosis is not a disease, and its not genetic. *leaves the room*
>>17037900Shed some light
>>17037680When you take a complex organism outside of its normal environment and subject it to cruel and bizarre stresses, it may malfunction.
>>17038677Aren't you describe PTSD?
>>17037680Because it doesn't typically happen until your partner is old and you already had kids with them. What sort of retarded question is that?
Too much schizophrenia is bad.Some schizophrenia (schizotypal behaviours) can lead to profound insights. Too much of anything is poison.
>>17039053t. Louis Wain
Can anyone of you guys even describe schizophrenia accurately?The textbook definition is just to put crazy people on pills and in institutions.
>>17039089It is a rather esoteric and nebulous mental illness, to be sure. Quite dubious. How does one distinguish the violently or zealously delusional religious person from the stereotypical schizophrenic who sees clowns? Is it any different from claiming to see God? I think the difference is how you manage in life.
>>17039098So if a schizophrenic says they here voices or have delusions. The psychs as what are the voices saying. The delusions are sometimes true and the schizophrenic is being gaslit due to the system trying to keep something from them. Keep putting a schizophrenic through more pressure and gaslighting and things get crazier.Visual hallucinations are normally caused by drugs and sleep deprivation,I have had 23 years of police trying to turn me into a "schizophrenic" and trying to get me to commit suicide because of jealousy and false allegations. Actual schizophrenia is not delusions and voices. It is far more mundane.A lot of these crazy schizo are usually people targeted by people with power who enjoy seeing people break and go crazy, often finishing them with suicide.If anyone you tell any regular person or doctor you are schizophrenic they will never believe another thing you say. Which is ideal for people who turn people crazy for fun and amusement.
Because men love fucking crazy horny schizo girlsAnd male schizos are often convicted rapists
>>17039053This. You see a lot of families where the odd one just gets a bad genetic roll and histocompatibility complex wank. A lot of the family members will present with schizoid type thinking that's not detrimental to reproduction.When you hang with schizos you notice the small shit; the common paranoid delusion of being poisoned by a close relation is usually just because they have GI symptoms because of faulty neurons in their gut. (no im not a >gut microbiome causes autism mom)>>17039100>Visual hallucinations are normally caused by drugs and sleep deprivationYeah but it's a chicken and egg thing. Cannabis and stimulants feeding back into lack of sleep. The peripheral vision identifying threats from stress happens to everyone; when shit goes wrong in the brain... your mind can't take executive control to realise a red plastic bag in the wind is just litter; you hyperfocus and pattern match for meaning that isn't there.There's a big difference between schizos from low IQ families in squalor and high IQ families with stable nurturing environments and access to GOOD mental health help.tl;dr schizo keeps you safe from the tribal psycho but goes wrong if your serotonin and dopamine regulation is fucked.
>>17040063Yeah but I have had intelligence and feds trying to make me kill myself for 23 years and sometimes a plastic bag flying in the wind means something.Lots of schizo are targeted individuals who get gaslit and medicated and put through pressure until they crack and werid shit comes out.Actual schizophrenia is not what you think it is.We are all spied on somewhat and if you start saying certain things you get targeted and turned into a shizo. The police told me years ago that I would be a paranoid schizophrenic wrapped up in loads of cases and all they did was ended up getting themselves sacked. I barely survived but schizoness is just an excuse to lock you away most of the time.
I think the poly gene explanation is the best, a little bit of the genes turning on can be a benefit but when they all turn on it’s badI’m diagnosed bipolar and am a fat smelly neet on welfare bux meanwhile one of my brothers became a cto of a medium sized tech company before 35 and my sister is an accomplished attorney from a t14 school. meanwhile I struggle to keep a job part time at a warehouse. people say I’m smart thoughyeah I’m probably gonna rope soon
>>17037680Survival advantageStress doesnt kill, tiger doesIf you are tweaking at every noise or context clue you see it might be helpfulIts not paranoia if they are really after you and in the wild they really are after you
>>17037680>>17037709>>17038615>>17039098because schizophrenia is caused by one of these three;1) intracellular bacteria (in brains)2) toxoplasma parasite (in brains)3) some other parasitic bacteria maybe lyme (in brains)>being genetically predisposedjust means that you cant handle these parasites while everyone else can
