Guys please helpI want to donate a small amount like a thousand dollars to foregen but I don’t like that they do animal testing and I feel like it may be a shot in the dark like it requires tens of millions of dollars to create a procedure like this and they have only raised like 3 million dollars so far in the years they have been operating. Will they probably need to do more animal testing in the future?But I want to help men so much, women stick together and have their hivemind so where is ours??Am I flushing money down The toilet or is this a good cause?
>>17045164If this is important to you, you'd be much better off investing in causes that end the practice of infant male circumcision. Even if foreskin could be effectively restored, the glans is already calloused and the nerves are already dead.
>>17045166I hear you but I don’t know where? I’ve donated to Eric cloppers gofundmes but it’s not yet clear if those will work I’ve donated to effective altruist charities but I don’t know how to rank intactivist charities by effectiveness because there’s no givewell for intactivismCant the glans be uncalloused?
>>17045166The latest attempt at going against infant male circumcision was Iceland in 2018, a population of atheists with almost no Muslims and Jews. And Iceland's attempt was practically condemned by the whole world. This shit is literally a fundamental practice in Islam & Judaism. Christianity doesn't require it, but it was always tolerated thanks to the Old Testament and Jesus being circumcised. Literally the only way where this practice is globally seen as a barbaric relic of the past is if the Abrahamic religions all get neutered and no longer holds any significant power. And that'll take a really long time since like 50% of the world follows an Abrahamic faith.
>>17045164I've been following Foregen for over a decade. It's legit and they made significant progress. They are trying to start human trials last time I checked. It progresses so slow since no one cares about male circumcision thanks to religion and the general lack of coverage for male issues in our society. Also for animal testing, if it makes you feel better, literally every research in science uses animal testing. And there is a huge ethic board in science to make sure that the animal testing isn't cruel.>But I want to help men so much, women stick and have their hivemind so where is ours??I think a huge part of the reason why men don't care about circumcision or are even hostile to people who are against circumcision, is that there is like no way to truly reverse it. Of course men don't like to hear their manhood was damaged, it's the same reason why men make fun of penis sizes or erectile dysfunction, it's a way of sexual dominance. Also something like 30%-40% of men in the world are missing their foreskin, some of these countries are also wealthy countries like the US, UK, or Korea. So there is a BS argument that "if it was so bad then why are the rates so high."
>>17045171Intact Global (Eric Clopper), Intaction, and, if you like their style, Bloodstained Men are good anti-circumcision organizations.>Cant the glans be uncalloused?Yes. There are caps, like an artificial foreskin one can wear.
>>17045166>investing in causes that end the practice of infant male circumcision.that's antisemitic though??? you're LITERALLY genociding jews if you don't want babies to be mutilated
They must bring in a Rabbi and circumcise some monkeys for testing? They should've waited for the science..
>>17045164no, lol, that is 100% bullshitthe foreskin doesn't matter broit's not bad, nice even, but my dick doesn't feel that fucking amazing or anythingt. foreskin haver
>>17045215>Also for animal testing, if it makes you feel better, literally every research in science uses animal testing.But that doesn’t necessarily make it moral>And there is a huge ethic board in science to make sure that the animal testing isn't cruel.But arent they killed as soon as they are done experimenting on them? How is that not cruel?If an animal is living a mostly bad life, suffering massively in a factory farm and experiencing little wellbeing then it’s wrong to breed them into existence.If an animal is living a mostly good life, perhaps on a pasture then it’s wrong to cut their mostly good life short by executing them when they’re a healthy teenager.Why take a utilitarian / hedonistic view of “non humans” but take an inalienable rights view towards “humans” ?
>>17045387>Why take a utilitarian / hedonistic view of “non humans” but take an inalienable rights view towards “humans” ?Human life holds greater value to us by virtue of the fact that we are humans. It's axiomatic on the same level that the goal of minimizing suffering is.
>>17045397But how do you define human? Did two non humans give birth to a human thousands of years ago (evolution)What if aliens from outer space visited earth who looked and acted just like us but were a different species? Do they matter less just because of dna?
>>17045397Wait but should I care more about men and German Dna’d people because im German and male? Why? Why not grant moral consideration on the basis of consciousness, ability to suffer, experience wellbeing, relationships, intelligence, etc ?
>>17045398>But how do you define human?Subjectively interpreted as human by other humans.>What if aliens from outer space visited earth who looked and acted just like us but were a different species? Do they matter less just because of dna?If their interests conflict with our interests, then yes.>>17045399>Wait but should I care more about men and German Dna’d people because im German and male?How much do those qualities determine alignment of interests? As a German man you should probably advocate for the interests of German men if they are ever in conflict with the interests of non-German non-men.Note this very obviously does not mean zero care should be taken for the interests of others in the case of such a conflict. If you are going to reply on the basis of such a strawman then let it be known that would be a deliberately dishonest interpretation of the position.
>>17045407>Subjectively interpreted as human by other humans.But historically many races were not considered human. There were human zoos! Which humans get to decide? What if I decade gorillas are humans?>Note this very obviously does not mean zero care should be taken for the interests of others in the case of such a conflict. If you are going to reply on the basis of such a strawman then let it be known that would be a deliberately dishonest interpretation of the position.But how much care? Is it okay to experiment on them like foregen does?
>mfw this thread
>>17045415>But historically many races were not considered human.I'm not sure if this is true. "Lesser humsns" maybe, but I'm not aware of a time nor place where humanity was denied in a literal sense.>Which humans get to decide?Society as a collective.>What if I decade gorillas are humans?The rest of humanity would call you a retard and disregard it.>>17045415>how much care?My position is about the hierarchy of interest and not to what degree the gap exists. You most likely care more about your immediate family than some random ass orphan in Tanzania. But how many Tanzanian orphans is worth your mother's life is subject to arbitration.>Is it okay to experiment on them like foregen does?Improving the quality of life for humanity as a whole is worth a few thousand lab rats. Yes.
>>17045482But society as a collective has decided men in dresses and nail polish are women. I disagree with most of society on this too. If the definition of human / woman is just what most people agree on then how can you change the definition?I might care about my family members more in the sense I’d rather spend 100 dollars to buy a younger cousin a video game then donate 100 dollars to mosquito nets to a group of black children overseas who desperately need them. But I would still say it’s immoral to kidnap and experiment on those black children to develop a cure for my white cousins rare disease. >Improving the quality of life for humanity as a whole is worth a few thousand lab rats. Yes.What about experimenting on humans instead and skipping the animal trials entirely? I know for legal reasons this can not be done but these mice are bred into existence experimented on and then immediately executed. That is insanely wrong. Human beings get to retire and be recognized for their contributions not gassed to death at 65 the moment they stop working. I don’t think it would be ethical to do this to a few thousand human toddlers to create foregen either regardless of how foreign the toddlers were
As far as I can tell foregen has never stated if they have or haven’t killed the sheep they experimented on. They just focus on the results of the experiments. That is really messed up
>>17045532>society as a collective has decided men in dresses and nail polish are womenThat fact that this is a hotly debated topic to this day in which roughly half the population stands on one side or the other on indicates your assertion is incorrect.>would still say it’s immoral to kidnap and experiment on those black children to develop a cure for my white cousins rare disease.Sure. Black children stand on a much higher point on the hierarchy than rodents. But more to my actual point: let's say you're presented with two buttons and must press one. Either your mom dies or x African orphans that you will never meet die. What is the smallest value of x that would cause you to press the "kill mom" button? I don't expect a solid answer and you don't need to give it.My point is that x is more than likely greater than 1. If it's not, then I have serious questions about your personal priorities.>What about experimenting on humans instead and skipping the animal trials entirely?Animal trials allow us to bypass extreme unforseen consequences of an experimental procedure. If it were found that the procedure unexpectedly resulted in extreme, unbearable, agony then it is much better that it happen to a rodent than to one of our own.
>>17045320Shalom rabbi
>>17045532>But society as a collective has decided men in dresses and nail polish are women.Just in some places. It's not a worldwide thing
>>17046198bro i am completely against circumcisionbut you aint regenerating that shitif anything such claims are likely to be JEWISH scams
