A thread for indie games that seek old-school style play without pious adherence to the shackles of literally half-century-old-design Gygaxian D&D.Cairn, Flail, Tunnel Goons, Into the Odd/Electric Bastionland, Mausritter, Sine Nomine _WN, Knave, Mörk Borg, DCC, Shadowdark, Basic Fantasy RPG, TROIKA!, GLoG, Index Card RPG, Mothership, White and Black Hack, Macchiato Monsters, World of Dungeons, etc. Or homebrewing your own, which also seems to be popular.Here's some more, there's a million of them.https://figcat.com/lists/fantasy-osr-and-nsr-games/PASTEBIN: https://pastebin.com/0W8WmbCk (currently broken)>does 2e count?I know /osrg/ refuses it as not old and gygax enough, but sorry, by strict definition it shouldn't count, it's not indie and it's comparatively crunch bloated.>these games don't share rules, seems like it would be hard to make this a unified threadHence the ever present bitching. Nonetheless, individually they don't have enough posters for their own general, and their rules lite nature and (outside of 4chan) relaxed take on deving means cross-pollination is rampant e.g. Flail is literally Mausritter + DCC. Cair is Into the Odd and Knave.previous thread: >>97162687TQ: Tell me about bases in your game. Do your players/your party ever make them? Why and what were they like? Have you ever made a base out of a dungeon you cleared?
No thanks. Nobody needs or wants this thread, it's just trolling, all of these games just fall under the wide umbrella of OSR and /osrg/.Also i very much see Basic Fantasy RPG being lumped in there sneakily, Basic Fantasy always has and will be an OSR game.
>>97989049Do ships count as small dungeons?Our SWN campaign basically started with us taking a privateering bounty contract, then taking a mining laser cargo contract, intentionally setting out looking like a weak defenseless cargo freighter, luring pirates into boarding us, using the mining lasers as a trap to completely annihilate their forward advance (minor pay dockage from the cargo contract for delivering them slightly used, even if "we were attacked by pirates" is an extenuating circumstance) then turning the tables and boarding them to take their ship by force as our new, larger and more heavily armed privateering vessel.
>>97989049Has anyone played a Mausritter gme where they stapled a bunch of adventure sites together to form a big meadow or village for the mice to explore?
>>97253301I don't understand this constant incessant circlejerk over morkborg. I feel like it's being exclusively carried by aesthetic.If morkborg was published as just a black arial on white page pdf none of you would even know its name.
>>97989481No but that seems like a really neat idea. Basically turns it into a whole campaign world.
>>97989049Good thread Anon, don't know what the other anon is seething about>>97989092>all of these games just fall under the wide umbrella of OSR and /osrg/NahVery clear from /osrg/ OP they don't belong there, don't try to force things where they're not wantedWhat's the drawback supposed to be of discussing these games here?
>>97989049Once again, /osrg wishes you good luck in fostering a community.(BFRPG belongs there, though)
>>97989438>>97989481I mentally combined these posts and imagined a Mausritter campaign set on an oceangoing (human) ship in the age of sail. The PCs are the ship's mice and adventures consist of looting the humans' valuable resources, evading the ship's cats, trading between the mouse settlements in various parts of the holds, and striking out to found new settlements.
>>97989511Like all “artpunk,” Morkborg isn’t even a game in the strictest sense. It is a vehicle to deliver overpriced hardback books with admittedly good art to people who do not play games, only set their books up on a shelf where they gather dust, artistically, forever.
LMAO troll thread mods pls deleteanyone interested in anything OSR related including OSR adjacent games is free to join the discussion in the OSR thread>>97981691maybe wait a bit until the osrg trolls tire out =) they are doing it manually
>>97989644Fuck off fishfag.
>>97989644>Don't participate in this thread, instead post in my latest /osrg/ hijack attempt which smashed the bump limit hours agoA new level of desperation.
>>97989673Says the guy who made this thread and is gonna probably bump it by himself for weeks. Have fun.
>>97989682>Says the guy who made this threadWrong again, faggotron!
>>97989605Read the Barebones Edition. While very simple, Mork Borg is only missing tactical movement and missile range rules. Beyond that, it does everything a beer-and-pretzels/pick-up-and-play TRPG needs to be.
>>97989511I remember once an anon claimed to be a Swedefag and said that the original Swedish edition was marketed and sold as an artbook themed around a grimdark RPG, and that the game being technically playable was like a gimmick/easter egg. Obviously I don't know whether that's true or not, but it made a lot of sense.
>>97989648>>97989673LOLthe usual suspect show up with replies, one in just a single minutewell color me not surprised
Just wanted to contribute to a good thread that deserves space despite the grognards yelling at the clouds. I’m a huge fan of ICRPG and would suggest the rulebook to anyone getting into DMing as a guidebook alone, regardless of if you are going to use it as your system. It’s got a lot of great nuggets of wisdom that would help anyone getting into the hobby. It’s my preferred ruleset, but I totally get why some people don’t like its item based approach which can also put a pretty hefty loot load on the dm >TQ I’m a huge fan of giving my player a battle wagon as a mobile base. You can bring it into towns, take it on the road, and there are so many fun ways you can upgrade it in either high or low fantasy settings. I especially love it for getting players who are less used to a sandbox playstyle a sense of progression and a solid leg up on any dungeon raiding since they always have a little base nearby. Give an upgradable wagon a try some time, it has served me well across systems.
>>97989763>a battle wagonWhat's this supposed to be, like a vardo with a turret? I assume it's nothing like a Hussite battle wagon.
>>97989772Yeah basically a vardo. Depending on the campaign I usually start with it having reinforced walls (magically or dwarven made) and I like to give the party a small pool of options to start with as starting upgrades. Usually small stuff, like all terrain wheels or an alchemy table. I did have one campaign where they put a turret on it and that was pretty rad. Normally though most of my players would increase its utility with things like extra storage, letting it ford rivers, or making it super durable in case of attack.Really I call it a battle wagon because you want it to be tough to be destroyed by bandits, with your bigger concerns being theft or environmental damage
>>97989049All of those games suck ass comoared to 1e thoughbeit. Just play that you'll have a better time trust me.
I have a question about Index Card effort.I'm reading the quick start rules and I know it has to be written somewhere since PCs have hearts, but I can't seem to find it.So you take a turn, you roll vs the scene's target. You deal X Effort based on die and any effort bonuses. If the cumulative amount of Effort dealt adds up to the total, you beat the task. Sure. Great system.But the game presumably does damage or some other kind of consequences back sometimes. There's largely no tangible difference between "skill checks" and combat so it should. Plus if it didn't PCs would just always succeed at everything eventually once the Effort adds up, there'd be no negative consequences except a minor amount of time loss. Is it whenever you fail tests badly, like Kingdom of Ooo? Do non-enemy obstacles take turns?
>>97989092>all of these games just fall under the wide umbrella of OSRNice try fishfag, but it's a squares vs rectangles thing. NSR is a specific sub-type of the broader OSR.>Nobody needs or wants this threadWell you're sure as hell not able to have basic discussion about them in br/osrg/. If they're going to draw a very technical line in the sand, I'm happy to comply, they can stay in their quarantine sucking off gygax and we can have actual talk about fun games that aren't stuck in a time before seatbelts, women as legal , or criminalized pedophilia.And I know I at the very least have wanted to discuss these kind of games.>>97989862>>>/tg/osrgget back in your hole
>>97989092You are that kid who cries and complains to his parents no matter what he gets
>>97989927this isn't what fishfag wants. he wants to /osrg/ to accept him and his 2e homebrew, which will never happen in a million years.>why doesn't he just make a /2eg/because he'd be the only poster. People that worship at the altar of Gygax want editions Gygax actually worked on, and everyone else recognizes it as incredibly outmoded. There's plenty to learn from the design decisions of that far back, but there's also plenty to learn from in the 5 entire decades since TTRPGs were first invented.
>>97989763>>97989909fuck, forgot to tag reply
I know there's a CC-0 SRD version of Worlds Without Number and Cities Without Number.Is there a SRD versions of Stars and Ashes anywhere?I'm working on a combined compendium website since they're all compatible and CC-0 so i legally can.https://sites.google.com/view/splats-without-numberBut realized copying things over that like World and Cities, there might be things in SWN and AWN's Free Rules that aren't SRD and vice versa, like how Worlds has the extra half-classes from the deluxe edition like Bard and Skinshifter, but no demihuman race lore.I'm doing my best to remove copyrighted lore as I adapt the Stars and Ashes Free Rules, don't want to step on the toes of anyone nice enough to make most of their work public domain, but it would be a lot easier if stripped SRDs of those two already exist.
I don't get why the trolls from the /osrg/ think that they can force a discussion about games they don't like when they can't even convincingly force a discussion about games they like.
>The trolls>The troooooolls>They're in my holes and violating my souls! :(Just talk about the things you enjoy for once instead of the people you hate.Faggot.
>>97990206...Oh wow, you really were here.
>>97990223Are you ever planning to talk about traditional games? Yes or no?
NSR is a sub genera of OSR. It's still OSR though and you put things like BFRPG in your list which are not NSR.
Pirate Borg is so fucking fun. Justifies the existence of the whole game just from that.
>>97989049>TQ
>>97990387fat fingered the rest of my post. None of the nusr or rulelite stuff I have does much for base building support and I use it for one shots or short 2-3 session family gatherings so it doesn't come up much. What even has base building rules of any quantity in the list of stuff in the OP?
>>97990399just because it doesn't have elaborate dedicated rules doesn't mean you can't do it. "It must be written on my character sheet or in the rulebook or it's impossible" is a very 4e mindset.
>>97990241at least fishfag's bitching about the definition of osr keeps the thread bumped lol.>>97990250What does it have that's so unique?
>>97991051Pretty sure this is one of the osrg trolls. But who knows at this point
Is RuneCairn an improvement over Cairn? Did ByOdin'sBeard cook, or did Colin just ruin it by making it "norse darksouls?"Cause I kind of suspect he just ruined it. The delve generator seems neat at least. But it goes from being defined by your wits and what you've got taking up your encumbrance slots to a classed system, which kind of feels like a major step back.Anyone have experience with it?
>>97991096why would br/osrg/ trolls be insisting we close this thread and go join br/osrg/ when their primary occupation other than larping being a 65 year old grognard around for the good ol days is telling everyone that isn't from their ACKS discord to leave because they're "False OSR Enthusiasts" for liking NSR games? It would be downright schizophrenic for them to now about-face and claim NSR does truly belong in /osrg/.No, Fishfag was always the one trying to argue that everything and it's grandmother belongs there. Which, i mean sure technically speaking if you look at a venn diagram of the two terms, but it's more that their thread is just named wrong. But we all know what they mean. Of course, being very particular about rules and terms and structured order when the intended implicit meaning is obvious to anyone with 3 braincells is kind of a known autism trait, so expected behavior from an extreme autist I suppose.
After a long time running Mothership one shots I managed to convince a group to play Gradient Descent. It's my first megadungeon (or close enough if it doesn't fit your definition). I was a bit overwhelmed, I skipped some cool stuff, I had to tell them to give me a minute to re-read stuff a couple times, over all I think it could had gone much better. But it didn't go as bad as I feared. Having a consistent space to develop characters and setting to then maybe let the players loose on a universe they know understand and are deeply tied to so hypes me up a lot.
Reminder to never adress ACKS or its discussion. It's a pointless task that will repeat over and over again and kill any interest in the thread because it will flood everything. There is nothing to be gained from it.
>>97989438Yeah, obviously.I feel like I've read people describing clearly non-dungeon aspects, like social interactions, functioning like a dungeon. Like a flow chart with dead ends.
>>97991238link proof in the archive then.because i've been getting called a FOE for literal years trying ask which games are and aren't allowed.
>>97989511It has an artless version for free, more people probably read that one.It's fine not to like a game, I don't particularly care for the Without Numbers games, but people aren't pretending to like things to fuck with you.
>>97991238Fuck off fishfag
>>97991216I don't believe in the "fishfag" conspiracy. They call everyone, myself included fishfag. Then the other side calls them fishfag. Rinse and repeat
>>97991387>from being "broadly encouraging" the playstyle of the "first decade" to the thread being solely focussed AROUND games from said "first decade."How long's a decade, fishfag?And how many years does "broadly encouraging" add to it?>multiple anons>usYou can tell /nsrg/ all the lies you want, fishfag, but the mods could see your IP address back then. They knew perfectly well that the new consensus OP was supported by the all of actual Anons who actually talk about games, and that you were samefagging the shit in the threads in a desperate attempt to stop it.Then you went to molest the mods themselves on the IRC chat, and they told you that /osrg/ has been the same for over 10 years, and to stop trolling /osrg/. (Picrel.)And yet you keep doing this every single day, for tens of posts a day.
>>97991238>And, the /osrg/ included NSR games up until last October when the trolls hijacked and changed the OP.So now you admit that NSR games don't belong in /osrg/? Weren't you trying to get us to go there and start a flame war just now?Whatever man, shut up and talk about NSR games here. Or don't, but either way fuck off with this private army shit.
>>97991431NTA, but considering that we can see the other posters and know there's more than just one of us, saying the mods condone what you did just makes us lose faith in the mods, not put any faith in what you say.
Reminder to report fishfag posts. While yelling at the retard can be fun, in the end he is literally insane and so it doesn't really accomplish anything other than to make you feel good for the moment.
>>97991387Can you fucking stop seething about /osrg/ for one second, you massive faggot? This is not You Malding About /osrg/ General. Even if you were right about everything – which we all know you aren't, there are years and years and years worth of threads in the archive where /osrg/ tells NSR anons to fuck off – your crying about it would STILL not be on topic for this thread! Shut up and either talk about games or fuck off.
>>97991486Nigger if that screencap is real (which I assume it is) the mod literally just told you/the complaintfag that they're aware that /osrg/ has been largely the same for a decade and by implication that the recentish OP change was a minor detail, a clarification of vague wording and nothing more, and yet you just keep repeating this shit about "changed to your personal views" like you didn't even hear what he said? Are you literally autistic? OCD? Tourette's Syndrome, so you know it's dumb but you can't help it? Just plain stupid? What is going on here, bro? What the mod told you/Anon in that screencap is absolutely crystal clear, I don't undertsand what sort of contorted mental gymnastics you have to get into to think it means anything else.
>>97991499> the recentish OP change was a minor detail, a clarification of vague wording and nothing moreIf it were so trivial, why would you have an issue with it getting changed back, faggot? Surely if its so trivial it could've never needed a change.
>>97991486Can you not read, retard? It D O E S N ' T M A T T E R, your whining is not on topic for this thread! Talk about Knave, Mork Borg, Shadowdark and others HERE or S H U T U P, this is not Your Retard Crusade General!
>>97991512Then why did it need to change? Surely if it didn't matter, it could've stayed the same. Why do you care so much about it maintaining said change?
>>97991512you're the one who doesn't get it.They'll reply to you and you'll reply to them and any interesting discussion gets drown out. Yelling at the retards only makes them yell more.This discussion has happened hundreds of times. There is nothing to be gained. Don't engage.
>>97991521Put it this way: announcing a report is a bannable offense, but it's theoretically possible for someone to both tell a retard to fuck off and to report his posts for being off-topic or trolling. Presumably the more people report, the more likely it is to be effective.
>>97991521Yes, now let's talk about walls. Stay on topic, thin or thick walls? What thickness? Organic walls?
>>97991516Why do YOU think shitposting this almost entirely uninvolved thread will do a FUCKING THING about the change? Leave us out of this.
>>97991535Please answer.And i'm not trolling, just asking questions.Questions likebwhy we need this thread when /osrg/ covered all of those games? Why is BFRPG getting purity spiralled here?
>>97991552Fuck off fishfag
>>97991552>Please answer.We've told you a million times already, why should we keep repeating it again?We're not an autism support group, fishfag. It's clear to everybody at this point that you need psychiatric help. No one will ever engage with you again except in mockery and to insult you.
>>97991552>Please answer.Why, when you haven't answered a single one of our questions? You just keep dodging them and latching on to a single phrase to keep your whine combo going. If you want good faith replies to your questions, you can start by answering every question in this post clearly, first: >>97991499
>>97991499NTA, but it seems that either the mod is unaware of just how big a change occurred, considering "removing several dozen games from the discussion" is a fairly big change, assuming he's acting in good faith.Changing just a few words can make a pretty big difference. Like saying you broadly encourage people to be quiet in a library, versus shooting anyone that speaks.You changed a few words, and the thread is not largely the same, which is why you changed those words in the first place, and tried to pretend you had some kind of consensus to make that change despite considerable protest that is ongoing. That mod literally said "It's typically a bad idea to change a General's text for not reason", and that's what you did.
>>97991573>NTA>Proceeds to repeat the exact same schizo bullshit, word for word.Kill yourself, fishfag.
>>97991572>answerDon't do that. Don't engage with anything he says except to insult and tell him to fuck off.
>>97991576>word for wordWas it?Are you just boldly lying now?If not, it just means that more than one person recognizes what you did, and there's really not too many other ways to describe it.
>>97991576>says bs>gives an articulate answer>dismisses it "fuck you fishfag"Are you going tonkeep this circular loop of stubbornness up forever buddy?
>>97991532Organic walls is one of those things that sound so creepy and badass in your head, but I'm sure 75% are still imagining regular walls and look at you confused if you say they are bleeding after they shoot them.
>>97991573>it seems that eitherEither... or what? You left out the second alternative, moron.>Like saying you broadly encourage people to be quiet in a libraryThis means that noise does not belong in the library, not that you can still yell if you want to.>You changed a few wordsAre you actually retarded? I had nothing to do with that, you dumb fag. I had to follow your own links to even see what was being discussed.>the thread is not largely the same>That mod literally said "It's typically a bad idea to change a General's text for not reason"Okay, so you genuinely have no reading comprehension. What the mod is saying is that he, like the /osrg/ posters evidently, considers the change minor and/or well motivated (thus not done "for no reason"), and that the thread nevertheless remains largely the same. At no time does the mod suggest he's ignorant of the OP change that IRC anon (you?) are complaining about. The anon got flatly told that he was in the wrong and should not fuck with the OP, his personal opinion does not matter, and he should knock it off. This is very straightforward. I am telling you this as an outsider, Tardanon.Also, fuck off with your offtopic complaining and talk about the games delineated in OP instead, or leave this thread which has nothing to do with your asshurt and malding.
>>97991387That has nothing to do with being called a Fake OSR Enthusiast for asking about DCC and WWN.They've been the way they are for years. Nothing has changed and I don't know why you're so insistent on trying to get them to change now.They don't want people like me. And I don't particularly want to be in a thread with them. The only person bothered by this arrangement is you, and bitching about it is not on topic for the thread and you probably don't have very long before people start reporting you for it.
>>97991552>why we need this thread when /osrg/ covered all of those games?>>97991216>sure technically speaking if you look at a venn diagram of the two terms, but it's more that their thread is just named wrong. But we all know what they mean. Of course, being very particular about rules and terms and structured order when the intended implicit meaning is obvious to anyone with 3 braincells is kind of a known autism trait, so expected behavior from an extreme autist I suppose.
>>97991595You just have to be more graphic with your descriptions.>>97991271I mean I have too, runecairns dungeon system is a flowchart instead of a dungeon as is index card's.But you can't really defeat a conversation and try to make it your new base despite what fishfag keeps trying lol so that kind of feels tangential to the thread question anon was replying to.
>>97989909After 10,000 years I return to answer a question probably abandoned. The answer is that ICRPG has multiple ways for non-combat checks to “fight back”. The first and most important is that ICRPG as a system and as general advice always recommends the use of a public timer die in addition to the public target die. So for example you are trying to lock pick a door (which obviously can’t fight back), successes bring you closer to completion but failures and turns tick down when the guard patrol will find you. Certain actions can then move the timer(creating a distraction for the guards), or make certain actions might move the target itself (you used your last lock pick, so now the target is higher). There is a fixed number of times a target can be raised or lowered in any encounter so it’s still possible to plan around even before things get easier or harder. So yeah basically, in an ideal ICRPG non-combat encounter, there would also be a temporal element to act as a consequence and ways to slightly modulate the target to make it more accessible. It’s a weird concept to get in the habit of and a the public timer is a bit gamey, but once you get in the habit of it it really helps to make each encounter matter (combat or otherwise) and having a public timer your players can plan around is far better than increasing their immersion at the cost of tactical options
>>97991045>just because it doesn't have elaborate dedicated rules doesn't mean you can't do it. No shit. So what has done it?
>>97992407NTAYRT>None of the nusr or rulelite stuff I have does much for base buildingI don't know any. It just obviously isn't the focus of NSR / ruleslite. It's POSSIBLE that there's something out there, but I'd be surprised.
>>97991602>no reading comprehension was it years of talmudian interpretations of the DMG or were you always delusional in the most schizophrenic sense?you are obviously implying things that are just not thereand what it actually looks like is the mod is just generally unaware of what has happened to the osrg, probably never read it
What's the new Tunnels & Trolls like?
>>97991051Not the troll, but it's so much more better explained than Mork Borg and therefore actually quick and fun as a rules-lite NSR.
>>97992840Same, which is why it seemed weird to even be the thread question. So off base it shows they have no god damn idea what they're talking about while making a general.
>>97993705Could you elaborate though? I often see people praise Pirate Borg but there are never any specifics, so it's hard to know whether there's any substance worth getting the game for. What are some rules that make it stand out? Ideally pirate-specific if there are any.
>>97994014The core is that it's better at being MB than MBwith a jauntier tone.Pirate-wise, the carousing rules are fun, classes squeeze several different archtypes out of pirate without stepping on each other's toys, gunpowder is an integrated alternative to hitting things and pirates naturally seek out loot.Naval rules can be taken or left depending on how you can handle hex grids.
>>97994916Cool, so it has less of a grimderp metalhead vibe? Any particularly good rules for piratey stuff, like ships or scabby Tortuga-type pirate towns?
>>97993988Base building is classic part of old-school d&d.
>>97997204Trouble is, the rules add crunch and NSR seems to have very strong opinions about having too many rules. Which confuses me a little, shouldn't a hypothetical OSRetroclone of BECMI or either AD&Ds be kosher?
>>97997222Those would be OSR games, not NSR. Most NSR games start conceptually in B/X and then begin to remove things.
>>97995097Random port generation is on the patreon which means a future book.
>>97997204Too bad this is the nusr thread waxing on about various rules lites and the question was what of any of those even has base building as part of the game.
