How do you handle all-antagonistic races in your setting?
>>98027889Sometimes I wonder if Evil Races would work better in a postmodernist setting.Like if you think a bout it, maybe the worst things that one could encounter could be nothing at all.
>>98027889I am particular to mindless demons, and highly intelligent hive-minds.I think they give the perfect kind of enemy to go against, also learning the party's combat style, as such allowing me to stop them from using the same tactic a hundred times
>>98027889Frieren is one of the worst and most boring examples of "evil races" ever done. Zoomers are really impressionable.
>>98027942>one of the worst and most boringcome on man, there is way worse stuff.
>>98027889In My world, evil species such as orcs and goblins are only like that because they're effectively slave species to their gods (most of whom are hell-bent on world domination) and don't really have free will. They can talk and think, but ultimately, they are basically emissaries to carry out their god's will in the mortal realms. A very rare few of them are born as exceptions, and thus are much more capable of thinking and choosing alternative paths, but they are typically raised among their slave-like peers and adopt the same mindset of their culture.Notable exceptions include things like demons, who are innately evil but not necessarily servants of any deity. Their evil comes from the fact that they are a physical manifestation of it.
>>98027962There's worse stuff? Sure. There's worse stuff that is peddled like the savior of fantasy by dozens of tards and FOMO enjoyers? Hardly so.
>>98028046Surely, this is FOTM and not FOMO.
>>98027889Demons in Frieren should be free to rape
>>98028095No, I mean FOMO. They're similar concepts.>>98028118And do actual evil shit and scare the audience of normals?
>>98028118>actually the wolves should fuck the sheepwhy?
>>98028173>>98028335They're evil. And, honestly I kinda just want Aura to rape me
>>98027889By not having a setting and running up whatever the rulebook came up with.Check-mate, faggot
The Scottish:>They wear dresses>They eat oat slop boiled in a sheep's stomach>They consider bagpipes to be "Music">They hate you because of historical events from long before you were born>They constantly write songs about how buttmad they are, and the six or seven times they actually won to keep the buttmad alive across generations>They will deep fry anything
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN EVIL RACEREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>98027889>>98027942>>98028118Demons are not a "race" and the key to the theme they represent is in the fact that they are heavily coded as European aristocracy.
>>98029661The thing about demons in Frieren is that if they're incapable of "good," then they're not really being evil. It would be like calling a bee evil for stinging me. But on the other hand, if they are capable of good, then Frieren is wrong for treating them all, without exception, as evil.
>>98029661>>98029682Are frierenfags actually this retarded
>>98027889Jujutsu Kaisen had a better take, even though cursed spirits are inexorably made from negative impulses, high-functioning curses can still hold some positive values like camaraderie and environmentalism
>>98027889"Traditional games" are not about creating personal settings, you dumbass. Why don't you ask how they work in DnD? Or other roleplaying games?>>98027931Cool, what rpgs do you play, dumbfuck?
>>98027889I allow my players to play women if they choose to
>>98029682I'm pretty sure Frieren never used the word evil to describe them
>>98027962Name thirty six.
>>98028173no, the concepts are entirely unrelated and completely dissimilar.
>>98029901Gross. Do not mention such dreadful things in my presence.
>>98027889I don't have any living in the material plane equivalents of my settings. Normal, living beings are not predisposed to being evil, only things from beyond mortal ken like demons are.
>>98027889Becoming a monster is an incremental, slow proccess that requires doing spooky evil things. Like you can't just be made a vampire on a whim, you have to go out and kill people for blood magic yourself. There are some species that are likely to cause trouble, but aren't always considered monsters. Like a troll can be feral or not.>>98027942The naturalistic angle is rarely used so I respect it. Also why I like the demons in Dungeon Meshi so much. The idea of a thing that feeds off humans evolving a personality to assist it in this.>>98029661This argument again.We see likeable human nobles and hobo-looking and servile demons.The butler demon that turns people to gold is thematic, yes, but about feelings of being an outsider and misunderstanding people. He is coming at this problem from the other direction and with a different intent than Frieren ofc, but that is the theme.
>>98027889>How do you handle all-antagonistic races in your setting?Being evil and being antagonistic aren't the same thing, retard.If you play as a demon or necromancer or similar, the paladins and other moralfags would be the antagonists.
>>98027889They are evil at a genetic level, to a degree that they may have some biological process that necessitates them committing evil acts. It also necessitates a war for survival with them, despite brief individual moments of solidarity or empathy with them. That's the core of cosmic horror to me, being forced to face truths and make choices too horrible to contemplate otherwise. No one has figured out Frieren is a cosmic horror anime yet and I love it for that.
>>98027889Just write them how humans treat what we consider lesser species. Do you consider yourself evil for eating a chicken tendy? Basically all humans would say no, but the chicken would probably have a few opinions.Don't make them *hateful* towards the good denizens of the land (do you "hate" chickens? You probably don't think of them at all), they just consider them chattel. Or math.
>>98027889Hey guys you should come and ask the worldbuilding general. We'd love to have y'all!
>>98029901A victorian-style mage/supe game of my own design. But i dont think you care about that
>>98027942Frieren isn't trying to make demons more than what they are though. They're just creatures who hunt humans and use words and their morals to trick them. The classic those without morals but understand they can be used against those who do troupe we seen time and time again. They don't have to have a epic explaining every fucking race and sorry I hate the"humanizing" EVERYTHING to the point that every race is just like humans but with a gimmick or feature to make them look different. That's the worst modern troupe to come from fantasy. Though to be fair most fantasy is dead cause they're just fucking DEI slop or romance novels with fantasy creatures and races in it for the chick who is often a strong independent woman to get her back blown out by.
>>98031916Nobody is going to read that
>>98029682she actively describes them as basically animals. she implies they more or less aren't sentient and not compatible with human life and thus should completely exterminated.when did she ever say a demon was capable of good?
>>98027889Monsters are the universal antagonist in my setting and ongoing threat to all sentient life. They aren't a race, they are a unnatural curse on the planet put in place by deeply selfish absurdity powerful beings too far back for there to be accurate records of the event.With monsters in my setting you only have 3 choices. Fight, flee, or hide. Anything else is a gruesome painful death. Even the ones that are somewhat humanoid in shape are just deeply disturbing mockeries of life that can drive the unprepared and untrained to madness just looking at one.So yeah, fuck postmodern gray morality bullshit. Kill the monster or literally everyone dies.
>>98031964I mean aren't they. They don't really build anything they just take over shit and eat humans and gain as much power as they can.
>>98027889>all-antagonistic racesLuckily players tend to stick together.
>>98029848i don't know who this jjk guy is about but every time i see him he always looks so miserable and pitiful, it's kinda cute even if he looks like a freak
>>98032103He is basically an evil Worf. He's like one of the strongest in the verse. HOWEVER, he almost always get bitch slap by the few that are stronger than him. Mostly Gojo and Sukuna.
>>98027889I kinda like how specters are handled in WoD. They are absolutely evil and their evil comes from a complete degradation of a person until nothing but spite, cruelty and nihilism remains. You understand where they are coming from.
>>98032116Basically an incel.
>>98029661>Demons are not a "race" They are literally described as such, though? Why do you leftists have such awful fucking media literacy lmfao.
>they’re not evil! they can’t HELP needing to torture human children in order to survive! that’s how they evolved okay! they don’t even feel any malice!Deranged
>>98027889Through alignment and the level of organization such would permit. Chaotic evil tend to be solo or very small group operators, causing havoc for its own sake, powerful out of madness and a bent for depravity. Neutral evil are the mass of the mob, destructive through attrition because it's fun to stomp out obstacles, they'll be the ones that bring Grond to the gates because the best killing is done inside the other guy's house and you brought all your friends to help you do it. Lawful evil are the zealots, a religious army of darkness out to topple the holy and righteous because they have ancient beef or because coexistence is blasphemous to the creed that's granted them power to dominate reality, if there are generals directing Evil it's probably one or more of these guys, having to run herd on the others all while keeping to the Faith.
>>98027942I think its neat that Freiren demons have essentially just camouflaged themselves as social creators as a form of predation. Lots of settings have demons or other enemies that are unredeemable and evil, or are simple predators that can't be reasoned with, but the idea of an enemy that essentially just tricks you into thinking that its smarter and more social than it really is to lower your guard and trigger misplaced empathy is just a cool concept. That said, I still hold to the belief that Frieren's demons are continuing to evolve, and that their arms race to get better at understanding and deceiving humans is going to eventually cause the newest generation of demons to finally make the jump to being functionally social organisms instead of merely pretending. A fake that approaches the original, to the point that diplomacy actually works with them because they can be genuinely convinced of the benefits of cooperation. The conflict then becomes that Freiren, whose stance of demons has been unambiguously right for a thousand years, now is wrong. Her lifelong enemy has changed out from underneath her, and she's not likely to be willing to accept that such a thing is genuine as opposed to a trick.
Frien is so trooncoded I cant even complain about DnD or Pathfinder anymore. It could be so much worse.
>>98027889The demons in Frieren are so contradictory and that's why there's so many arguments around them. Things like not showing emotions when they clearly do. I shouldn't go too into it though
>>98027942Zoomers are subconsciously aware of the fact that they live in a bloated carcass of a world that reached it's peak far before they were even conceived and that they're only fed reheated leftovers so they are absolutely DESPERATE to find the new genre defining masterpiece that will be remembered for decades upon decades to come even if the dogshit they like tends to be completely forgotten in about a month, hence why they are so prone to hailing even the most mediocre and unremarkable 5/10 show, movie and whatnot as the best thing ever
Why are elves always done so annoyingly by the Japanese?>tee hee loli race Fuck off
>>98033183Sex appeal is literally the only thing elves have going for them and for the japanese that sex appeal manifests itself as a teenage girl
>>98027889>How do you handle all-antagonistic races in your setting?You just put them in the world nigga, what's so hard about it?Sometimes a gnoll is just a gnoll and he wants to rip your face off and eat you ass first because it's a carnivorous monster and he likes killing, not because it's a subtle form of commentary on Zimbawe's sociopolitical landscape
>>98033026>I still hold to the belief that Frieren's demons are continuing to evolveThat's practically confirmed, Revolte mentions hearing about an "unusual" demon that studies humans
when is Sparda going to appear?
>>98033293Sounds like you're caught on on the anime, but not the manga.The better example in that scene isn't the scholar-demon that Revolte mentions (though she is a data point on the line of demon evolution) but consider instead simply the conversation that mention comes from at all: a demon child asking questions about *why* humans do the things they do, and the older demon Revolte not only not knowing the answer, but considering it strange that the question should be asked at all. The younger demon is curious, wants praise from Revolte, and seeks an understanding of human behavior that extends beyond surface level mimicry. None of that matters to Revolte. Between these two shown generations of demons, something has already changed
>>98031351This isn't a great analogy because chickens have been known to eat each other. They are even spray products sold that you apply to chickens to keep them from eating each other.
>>98031921I read it. And that Anon is right.
>>98033041>words words words>black and white morality>very little action, but a visual spectacle when it does happen>the main trio is one autistic elf and 2 young adults who aren't fucking 24/7 because the autistic elf won't let them go until she's done travelingnahyou want a trooncoded fa/tg/uy adjacent manga, try dungeon meshi, even the very artstyle screams of deranged fujoshi
>>98033183The Japanese struggle with creativity but excel in repeating the same old schlock.
>>98027889I can't wait for them to poz literal demons in D&D. I'm sure that's coming. >Yes yes they try to buy your soul in exchange for favors which guarantees anyone who partakes of such a bargain an eternity of suffering and torment. BUT they're also gender queer saucy Latinas that can destroy your entire ego with a single look ;)
>>98033192I think this dude nailed it. Japan is THE pedo country
>>98033026>A fake that approaches the original, to the point that diplomacy actually works with them because they can be genuinely convinced of the benefits of cooperation. The conflict then becomes that Freiren, whose stance of demons has been unambiguously right for a thousand years, now is wrong. Her lifelong enemy has changed out from underneath her, and she's not likely to be willing to accept that such a thing is genuine as opposed to a trick.Damn that's actually very cool, especially with the whole Mono no Aware theme of the show. Being an immortal left behind by the changing world, and Frieren being doubly incapable of dealing with it because she is extremely autistic and autists struggle deeply with change.
>>98031987very anime setting, but I happen to like anime so...
>>98033624They won't, they're keeping demons as the one actually evil thing while everyone else gets hit with the californian tumblr ray, like for example Gnolls are now fiends precisely because they're ok with the idea of evil demons but the second they hear about evil humanoids their brains can't help but make the connection to africans
>>98027889Forged by dark gods, the inherently opposed races are more like automatons than people. They cannot be reasoned with, they have axioms programmed into their brain which instill them to kill or suppress those not of like-kind. Creating a race without free will automatically labels you a "dark god", for what it's worth. No matter how nobly intentioned or benign you try to be, the other deities are in alliance against you for creating tools of war.
>>98027942Frieren is just worse Dungeon Meshi. In every single aspect.>>98029625All of the Brits are evil in one way or another.>English are the two faced slug people (that's why they're so afraid of putting salt in their food)>Scottish are the violent yet still bad at warfare orcs>the Irish are like goblins, obsessed with the color green and blowing stuff up>the Welsh
>>98034146>Frieren is just worse Dungeon Meshi. In every single aspect.They don't tell even remotely the same story, anon. I like both, but this is a retarded thing to say.
>>98027889They oppose rape. Antirapism is the ultimate evil.
Frieren could be the textbook definition of "mid". Its not bad, but its certainly not good either. The whole show is a vehicle for inane tidbits masquerading as some deep wisdom or philosophy, all of it carefully crafted for maximum normalfag appeal. Emotional music at the right times so the redditors know when they're supposed to cry and laugh, and constant clippable zoomer-centric aura farming moments instead of any real logic or internal consistency to the universe.I cannot say Frieren is "good" until it ends because most manga fuck the landing, so take in account this could be the most wasteful disappointing shit to watch when all comes to an end.Second Frieren is mostly about the visuals, because characters are never challenge in their ideas, opinions or way of doing things: Frieren had one (1) cathartic revelation on episode 1 and everything else that happen to her is just a confirmation of her way of thinking now. Fern and Stark are stagnant characters, they don't change, they don't move, all characters are already where they need to be and emotional progress its impossible. They're always right, their only minuscule fumbles only arise from the most inconsequential of misunderstandings. Is a show about flat characters in a flat world.But everything its very pretty.Have you heard how all pop music now sounds the same? Because, quoting the study, "as music becoming increasingly formulaic in terms of instrumentation under increasing sales numbers due to a tendency to popularize music styles with low variety and musicians with similar skills." Risk can turn people off from things, art that challenges the viewer always risk alienating a major part of the audience.So nothing in Frieren will ever challenge you, every beat, every episode, every threat will always be more or less the same, Frieren will always be right, no one will ever need to grow, is a safespace for you to watch pretty fights and pretty backgrounds with pretty music.
It will never stop being funny how Freiren being popular without being some fanservice laden shonen battle drama permanently broke the minds of people like this. >>98034340Shows been out for years and they just can't get over it.
>>98034200They're based around the same theme>how does a long lived person deal with their friends dying>also how trustworthy are demons>general death and rebirth
>>98034550That sounds like LOTR.>>98033183Honestly I'd like if that was case in fanservice weebshit. Elves need to be slender, not titty monsters.
>>98034550Impressive, you came up with something that manages to be what neither story is about.
>>98034616You sound like someone who would say "media literacy" unironically.
>evilnot real
>>98034798You sound like someone who doesn't understand how stories work and gets defensive when someone who does corrects you.
>>98027889They're Outsiders, beings of another plane that has different rules. They are alien.
>>98029848>>98032103Jogo represents mankind's fear/negative emotions regarding volcanos, which is why his head is one. He's a top-tier Curse Spirit, meaning that he is composed entirely of negative energy. His whole shtick is that he believes Curses are the real humans, because they are pure and genuine, while actual humans are contradictions, constantly exuding negativity/curse energy, so he wants Curse Spirits to replace humans. To this end he is the most interesting of the four main villains in the series but the first one to be killed.
>>98034146>>98034550You seem generally joyless.
>>98027889Perhaps the scariest thing is that demons in picture related sincerely can’t get that killing humans and coexistence with them is impossible, and those who try to figure out coexistence are the ones that do the most damage… Are there any similar approaches to this that you are aware of?
>>98035322All the writer of Frieren did was take D&D demons (tanar'ri) and make them look human. Its scary how effectively this retardly simple trick has even people that watch it fooled. Imagine being so intensely propagandized you're easily duped by a cartoon villain. Holy shit man, conquered as fuck peoples.
>>98033183There's big tiddy Elves, that they iuse the is a diferent story.
>>98035590> This movie is giving me real Boss Baby vibes...
>>98035649Okay retard, name a kind of demon that eats other demons and people to become more powerful predating the most recognizable D&D variety. The fucking guy in S2 is just a genderbent legally distinct marilith.
Maybe something like the Auditors from Discworld, where they start out as automatons following some kind of malicious programming, but too much contact with sapient life can rub off on them, either causing them to self-destruct or change sides, depending on circumstances.
>>98035666Frieren demons don't explicitly eat each other OR get power boosts from eating humans, so you're already spitting bullshit from the very premise of your question. If anything what you are thinking of is Demon Slayer, a completely different manga/show. But 'supernatural monsters that eat people and grow stronger with age' is pretty common for yokai. You don't need to go any further than Japan's own mythology to see inspirations for that. > DnD invented multi armed snake peopleNobody tell him.
>>98035794They do though. They gain the mana of who they consume, which is why they do it. Swap souls with mana and its the same concept. And no, retard, you don't get to ignore the entire concept, premise and context of the show as a direct adaptation of fantasy roleplaying games to make your moronic preddit 'D&D don't own sneks' point. You know full well what the show is stop pretending you don't, its only hurting you.
>>98027889With genocide
>>98035858Japan doesn't give a shit about DnD, anon. It steals its fantasy tropes from Wizardry.
>>98035858>They gain the mana of who they consume, which is why they do it.What chapter was this stated in?
>>98027889Depends on your setting.
>>98027889They don't exist. My setting doesn't have cosmic morality. Not even the gods are viewed as purely good or evil by everyone, simply as divine beings far above mortal ability or comprehension, and mortals just try to ascribe their own morality to the gods. For example, the god of chaos is viewed as a positive force by those who seek change in the world, viewing the god of order as the ultimate tyranny. >>98028335He's saying the other way around. The sheep should rape the wolves. Humanity are a prey species within Freiren's world, and Demons are predators that use mimicry to prey upon humanity. It's what terminally online dipshits of both stripes don't understand. They try to put demons from Freiren into a human category, when they're not human in the slightest. They're just mindless animals.
>>98027889I make them all antagonistic. Maybe you can negotiate with one to a handful, but you're not talking the entire orcish warband down from wanting to pillage the peaceful village.
>>98030049
>>98031916>Frieren isn't tryingYou could have ended the post there. Zoomers who have never picked a fantasy book convinced themselves is the greatest shit ever. With antagonists blander than a ream of office paper. When the whole selling point of a show is that is the plainest shit ever you know is being peddled by the most terminally online autists who have never consumed anything outside of what the algorithm feeds them.
>>98033173They keep hyping up terrible shit that ends up having terrible endings before being forgotten in a month. But they start to cry when you tell them their opinion is irrelevant when it comes to the discussion of media and art.
>>98036495I think the appeal of Frieren is that in terms of modern/recent media and the current cultural climate, it's doing something noticeably different. The issue with stuff having done it before is that those things are fixtures in the immediate sphere of conversation -- it's the same problem the "but you still have the old games!" argument has: the newest stuff will ALWAYS dominate the major sphere of influence and conversation because it is the most recent thing and our brains are geared towards that.
I want my in fantasy setting, monsters that are hard-coded to be evil and genocidal. Fully sentient and created with the specific purpose by their creator to genocide all humans and take pleasure in human suffering and whatever culture they have is anti-natalist and culture of death.They are partially psionic creatures and use this power to both sense humans, manipulate humans, and use their partial psychic nature to assume command of lesser monsters. If there are no humans, they then will salt the earth around them or enter into hibernation until their psychic senses pick up human emotions and wake up to continue the great slaughter. I want to take an evil race concept, and run it all the way until it becomes nightmare fuel. >"There is a evil race and they won't ever stop till they kill you and will laugh as they do."(How does that sound?)
>>98036495It's mind-numbing to me. I read it up to the demon encounter past eldorado or whatever, the girl demon who they dogwalk immediately just so I could say I tried it, I don't vibe with the whole road trip manga genre, and ultimately freiren is that. It's about freiren realizing she fumbled himmel hard and having to deal with that while also caring for fern and stark and fighting the demons along the way.It's about the journey, and I'm more of a destination kind of guy. I read a lot - and I mean a lot - of romcoms. I drop most of them because they drag on for 200 chapters of will-they-won't-they instead of knowing when to say "okay, we're done here" and ending. I like my stories to have endings.>>98036575You look at 4chan for 5 seconds and you wouldn't know it. This site is full of nostalgia-blind contrarians who insist everything from their childhood is the best thing ever (99% of the time it isn't - just look at /vp/ and how blindly they defend the unfinished trash that was Gen 1 of pokemon), and everything new is dogshit (No, it isn't. In fact, a lot of modern stuff is a good time if you're willing to sit down and give it a chance. Not all of it, but not all stuff from the past was dogshit either).
>>98036618>This site is full of nostalgia-blind contrarians who insist everything from their childhood is the best thing everTruth be told: I'm one of them, but I also look back further. I do think we've managed to drift too far away from decent media, but that cannot be made manifest if the culture creating it is as dogshit as ours currently is. There IS a bit of a chicken-egg scenario, but that's why I encourage people to create what they want to see rather than simply bitch.
>>98036575The thing is that Frieren is not different in anything. Plain villains have existed since forever and are currently the most common type of villain thanks to Marvelslop. They're not even particularly awful. They're just like one dollar Batman goons who he beats in a single episode. Funny because most demons in frieren literally die in one episode too. But the circlejerk wants you to believe this is the hottest shit ever, revolutionary even.
>>98036618>nostalgia-blind contrarians who insist everything from their childhood is the best thing everAnd they're right. You look like a moron when you call anyone nostalgia anything while defending current mainstream culture which only existence relays on milking IPs from the past into the form of unnecessary reboots and remakes.
>>98036750Ironic, isnt it
>>98036709>Plain villains have existed since foreverAgain, you're comparing it to EVERY piece of media before, instead of its immediate contemporaries and the cultural climate that tries to sell the idea of "pure evil" as a bad thing -- i.e. look at the recent orc changes in DnD. Heck, in the most recent interpretations of those exact Batman villains they're almost universally sympathetic in some way.You have to remember: the immediate, current thing is what is going to be talked about, it's what is going to have the hype around it, it's what people are going to be talking about on the playground, around the watercooler, because it's the current thing. Those are the fixtures of casual, normal conversation, and so it's them, not the stuff that "did it before" (some 20 years ago) that has the discussion about and comparisons made between it.
>>98036750They're fucking wrong. Video games were way worse in the 90s.
>>98029625I've heard that in Scotland there's places where like, you can just bring them your own food and for a price they'll deep fry it for you.
>>98036300Its implied rather than demystifying the monster, which is smart on the writers part. I wouldn't expect an insufferable faggot like you to understand something as nuanced as context clues in story telling. This entire thread seems to be mostly a bunch of basement dwelling manchildren neckbeards who in their incredibly sheltered, priveleged and probably cowardly lives have never experienced ontological evil. Its very real and an entire race that embodies it is not only realistic but an evolutionary precedent. The entirety of science backs that up. You wouldn't even exist if it wasn't true.
>>98027942They're artistic renditions of classic psychopaths. That makes them both relatable and interesting.
>>98036618>I'm more of a destination kind of guySo you must absolutely loathe the lord of the rings then
I liked the first part of frieren s1, really original how every episode was slowly adapting to human time (first episode spanned 50 years, second 20, third 5, fourth 1 year, etc) till now they're a couple of weeks or days, completing Frieren adaptation to "human time".But stopped after the wizard tests because it smells like it's going to become your typical powerlevel shonen.
>>98034550bro literally all shows are the same slop>people speak words>sometimes they hit each other>plot resolves
>>98037842>But stopped after the wizard tests because it smells like it's going to become your typical powerlevel shonen.S2 has some good stuff in it. Frieren getting sent to a silver mine to work off a debt the Hero Party incurred without ever paying it back was fun; getting to see how 1st-rank mages operate in the North with Genau and Methode was a solid little arc as well.
>>98037531What an incredible meltdown. I didn't ask you about ontological evil I asked you to back up your incorrect claim that demons eat people to consume mana. Was that also "implied" somewhere that you assumed because it fit your mental image?
>>98037842> But stopped after the wizard tests because it smells like it's going to become your typical powerlevel shonen.S2 has, like, 2 fights in it that last more than about a minute. People who unironically believed the "frieren is a shonen" memes were upset that season 2 barely had any action in it, and instead spent multiple episodes on "Fern and Stark finally go on a date in the most awkward way possible".
>>98038246I don't think that anon actually has read or watched Frieren at all. He's made a bunch of claims so far that just don't line up, I think he's one of those people who is mad about a popular thing but hasn't actually seen it (why would he watch it, he's already decided he hates it) and so all of his knowledge about it is secondhand with headcanon to fill in the gaps. But he still needs to make sure everyone else knows he thinks its bad and why.
>>98038246I was mostly disgustipated at the rest of the thread, but if you'd like a thesis with annotated dialogue examples that'll be $100.>>98038478If anything I was postured to defend it because I liked it as I liked all the source material its unambiguously drawn from.
>>98038474>>98038158ok I'll check it once the season ends because I trust /tg/ wouldn't lie to me
>>98038549Seasons been over for a while. That said, there is no harm in waiting longer: season 2 is in a awkward middle period where stuff happens and things move forward, but its all building up to an extended arc that many people consider the current high point of the manga, but that arc is long and involved enough that they didn't have the runtime to complete that arc in one go so they did everything they could to get right up to before it starts... and then stop there. Because that arc is going to be done as its own season in the future. So what I'm saying is, season 2 is going to feel like not a lot happens in it because of an unfortunate matter of pacing that left it a lot of good little moments to it, but no big payoff yet until the third season drops in Oct 2027.So no need to rush. We're all in the Golden Land waiting room.
>>98027889Ignore the pol. A villain that is evil just "because thats how all of them are" is fucking boring. You want an antagonistic empire? You put in some fucking effort. Give them an ideology, some sort of fucked up selection process, a collective trauma, something, literally anything.
>>98037750You would be correct.
Broo are the only inherently evil race I like
>>98027889Wanna make some unapologetically evil antagonist? No need to invent some ideology or magic reasons. Just make them pedos. That's all you really need to do. They don't even need to be cruel, maybe just rapey a bit. People can forgive and advocate for anyone but pedos? Full stop here. If you have girls as players - your antagonists doomed whatever they do.Wanna have additional fun? Now your pedo antagonists look like handsome lesbian butches with kind eyes and british accent. And they also transform into werewolves with knotty dicks. Literally irresistible.
>>98038774Ill expand on this, lets say your players are apart of some "good" empire, dues vult and all that, and you want a bunch of barbarians to conquer. Then give the barbarians some texture, like "these orcs believe that the world is a cosmic colosseum, and seek favor of its bloodthirsty patron through displays of gratuitous violence."It gives your party of something of substance to use in the game. Maybe they learn a ritual that can goad the war chief into a duel? Or thet discover this "patron" is in fact some sort of eldritch being. Whatever. Ontological evil, like most ontological things, doesnt give your game any dimensionality, almost by definition.
>>98038851careful you will trigger the adnd fakegrog tards who are going to REEEE over theater kids ruining the hobby
Since there is no other relevant thread to post this in I liked that Kobolds were defacto lawful neutral but just happened to have a lawful evil government. It made negotiating with them more viable.
>>98038774I'm a big fan of the Garlean Empire as an example for this: a race of people whose defining feature is that they cannot use magic, in a world where everyone else from commoner to king can use at least some magic and does it daily. The Garleans have a weird pearl in their foreheads that give them better spatial awareness, but otherwise they are just flat out weaker than every other race for the lack of magical ability and as a result they have lost every war they have ever had, were driven from their homeland and and everywhere else they tried to settle down in for centuries until they finally found a remote, frozen hellhole that no one else wanted and they were finally allowed to keep for themselves. There, in the frozen wastes, they discovered what is basically magical fossil fuel and started developing magitek machines that can perform magical functions even if the user cannot use magic at all. Soon they are making magical appliances, magic forms of transportation, and magical weapons of war. Before long they have magic robots and the world's first airforce, and they launch a crusade against the rest of the world that they see as savages with a fancy new manifest destiny ideology. And I really do mean "before long", because it was only 60 years between them discovering magitek and them being an intercontinental superpower. Its revealed that they are the victims of a very long scheme to use them as tools by a handful of immortals, the Garlean emperor who discovered magitek was just an immortal in disguise who fast-tracked their shift from oppressed victims into magitek nazis to use them as an army to advance the immortal's plans. When the payoff comes, the Garleans are slated to die with everyone else and they have no idea they are being set up. Its very likely that the garleans were manipulated into the frozen hellscape by design specifically to enable this plan and make them culturally paranoid and vengeful against outsiders.
>>98038841I have met people who defend shota and loli porn because "its just drawings, no one is getting hurt" so I don't think you are right that "no one would defend that".
>>98039657He's not talking about just fapping, methinks.
>>98039749I've also seen plenty of people who question why a female teacher gets in trouble for sleeping with a male student.
>>98039860Yeah the double standard is horrendous.
>>98039860That's a given, but not particulary related (we basically treat pedophilia as the last sin, not how we treat "normal" toxic behaviour, even worser ones. You can't really assume peope will be totally rational about it, or at least coherent).And yes, it's a male sin.
>>98027897sure, why not? if anything, they're even more subversive because nobody wants to believe in them
>>98039657Drawings are not people and have no rights. If you think otherwise, you are mentally deranged.
>>98039615Bruh it is wild to see advice from people who are like "keep politics out of 'our' hobby, and to do so use this particular system and style of game exclusively as it is amenable to 'our' political alignment." I struggle to believe these are the people I played 2nd and pathfinder with, but who knows.>>98039644Final Fantasy yet again delivering fantastic lore for me to shamelessly steal and zoop into a game I actually like to play. Thanks.
https://youtu.be/e-W0UWttWEw?si=XmznfYmSVo5X5jIzAt least let's get some GOOD demon apologist kino
>>98040130>Final Fantasy yet again delivering fantastic lore for me to shamelessly steal and zoop into a game I actually like to play. Thanks.Finding stuff your players have not read/watched/played to steal ideas from is the best secret ingredient for any campaign. Just change the names up enough that they don't find your inspiration on a quick google search and you are golden.In a similar vein, I once ripped off the Erste Empire from Granblue Fantasy: specifically the detail that their recent military advancements had allowed them to grow the their empire absurdly quickly, to the point that the Emperor has functionally lost control. The generals are all taking their armies in different directions, pillaging and conquering and gobbling up territory as they see fit, but they are not following the emperor's orders in doing so and he can't reign them in because he doesn't have enough loyalists left to do so. If he presses the issue, the generals will just take their armies and conquered territory and split off into their own kingdoms, which they have effectively already done anyway but they are at least pretending to still be part of Erste and thats better than pulling the trigger on them going rogue outright.
>>98040285The Suikoden series and King of Dragon Pass both has some great lore Ive included in my games. In king of dragon pass brass comes from not smelting copper and tin but "the bones of an extinct race of ghosts". Just weird little tidbits like that written to sound like bronze or iron age folklore.
>>98039657>>98039860The Overton window has went so far away that any rational discussion of that matter indeed almost impossible in public spaces. Females go apeshit in 99% cases and males want their attention so seldom differ.>>98039964Counter to this is that those drawings promote sexualization of children. Which is hard to beat and you will sound like a pedo if you try to argue. In current paradigm where sex is a bad and dangerous thing - case basically closed.So yeah, if your antagonist faction\race owns Cute and Funny Island they are beyond salvation.
>>98040364>promote sexualization of childrenAnd violence in GTA promotes violence in real life, among other retarded boomer shit said by religious pearl clutchers
>>98040303I also love Suikoden and shamelessly steal from it.
>>98034146It even extends to the regional micro-identities that are remains of subsumed ethnic groups.>The ManxRitualized suicide by motorbike accident kills half their male population each year>The CornishLike The Welsh, but they live in tin mines and only eat pasties
>>98036618The fact you apparently defend modern Pokemon alone means your opinion should be dismissed outright.
>>98040364It's basically age-play. They are very rarely portrayed as real. The same people would be repugned by the real thing. Except with teens: teens are very much sexually active and attraction towards teens is pretty much wildly widespread and normal.
>>98027942it's so painfully obvious that no one likes your stories or worldbuilding lmao
>>98040364What if they are Greeks?
>>98041836They'd engage with rigorous butt sex
>>98027889What settings handle all-evil races the worst, and what specific mistakes did they make which we can learn from?
>>98045195The OTL. It makes no sense for the protagonist factions to tolerate the existence of the all-evil races, but they do anyway.
>>98045195Beholders are just dicks to the maximum degree, to the point that they openly hate other beholders and will actively kill their own children on a whim. I think evil races should have at least some care for each other (Mindflayers), or at least breed so rapidly that it doesn't matter (Skaven), but beholders just seem like such eternal dicks that their breeding habits seem to out-there for me.
>>98046741Don't they reproduce by budding? There's not much worry about the species surviving if new individuals literally just fall off of old ones like ripe fruit.
>>98047043Apparently, they just kinda pop out in their sleep?
>>98046741Beholders reproduce by spontaneous generation from their own dreams. They have absolutely zero overhead to reproduction, and the fact that they kill their own young extremely often is why they haven't overrun the whole universe.
>>98031916demons aren't anything by default, frieren makes them "more than what they are" the same as any other setting
>>98028173>>98028095>>98028046fomo means fear of missing outfotm means flavor of the monthi don't think fear of missing out enjoyers make any sort of sense here
>>98027889I do the same with Demons, but obviously they're not cute girls.Rather the Outside--which humans call Hell--is essentially the lowest point where souls accumulate unless they are rescued by deities or some other force. There the souls congeal in a chaotic, schizophrenic mass of egos forced to share a gestalt consciousness. Traumatic death taints this mass, with vast numbers of the souls there essentially coming in screaming and instantly plunging into the ocean like a hot iron. The whole spiritual protoplasm is constantly seething with pain and fear, rage, hatred, etc.Over time, beings congeal out of this mass, essentially eating other souls and becoming the Demons. Totally alien creatures who embody bizarre synchronicities of the consumed souls. A Demon might represent secrets that one desperately wants someone else to discover, or guilt over having left the living behind, or the hatred of victims.When you summon a demon, it's like dropping a lion into the middle of the Pacific Ocean. It has no idea what is going on, it's thrashing and screaming and just wants to get back to Hell. If not constrained it will kill everything around it and then itself. But a few--a rare few--can hold it together long enough to realize that they're back in the world of the living, and can now influence events again. Say, to ensure they are never summoned again.In any event they are pure unalloyed negativity. Any "good" in them dissipated in the vastness of pain like a drop of ink in the ocean eons ago. There is no circumstance in which a Demon would ever--EVER--act to bring humans joy, they don't even know what that is.
>>98050051To simplify a little, would it basically be something like 40k Warp?At least in terms of souls gathering there, we'll leave the psychic energies out of the equation.>essentially eating other souls and becoming the DemonsBy eating you mean absorbing them into themselves, or is it actual unraveling?It's just that it makes more sense if they're a vortex of souls, rather than some singular soul shredding others to grow itself.It also sorta gives them a natural drive to kill every living being around them besides madness.If they have a natural inclination to add more souls to their gestalt, they would seek to do so by any means, including ripping them out of the living.I figured the demons would be the gestalts that form naturally around alike souls, i.e. similar life experience or similar traumatic death that makes them "click" together.Then, much like star formation in nebulae, other souls begin to accrete around this "core", pulled in by other similarities, until it "ignites" with a semi-stable ego.At least, it's easier for me to grasp all that by thinking in terms of astrophysics.
>>98029661Post like those make me want to squash the poster's head on the concrete like an over-ripe watermelon, just to see what goes on inside.
>evil>racesspooked as fuck nigga
>>98050051>the Outside--which humans call HellPrince of Nothing enjoyer? In any case, I dig your approach, especially since this specific interpretation of demons allows for absolutely zero subversive faggotry regarding them--been trying to aim for something like this with my setting I'm currently spitballing ideas for. Also a fan of human understanding of 'theological' phenomena being essentially just middleschool-tier fanon, which is entirely removed from their actual nature and is truly incomprehensible to a human mind. What's your setting's counterpiece to Hell, if you don't mind me asking? i.e. 'Heaven' or whatever you may call it? Interested to hear more.
>>98053400Anon, you live in a world full of evil races...
>>98053485>bro you HAVE to do X, you have an OBLIGATION to do X. >where does this come from, how did I figure this out, and by what means does this generate an obligation?>uhh... er... you just have to ok?!?! You have to do X or else you are EVIL and I HATE YOU!!!!!>also you have to like mayo because you are le white o algoEvil isn't real.Race isn't real.
>>98033389Reminds me of that scene in season 1 where a younger demon asks what a father was and the older having no idea. Foreshadowing is such a good literary tool. >>98033173>the most mediocre and unremarkable 5/10 show>be LOGHFORM A HALF CIRCLE AND OPEN FIRE I'M A STRATEGIC GENIUS>yamato>be good ship and do simple tasksyou're gunna have to name drop some anime here boomer. chances are ive seen them and theyre not as good as freren
>>98032707>At first they were complaining about leftists insisting on media literacy.>Now they're complaining about leftists not having enough media literacy.What is it with people who complain about leftists and having no internal consistency?
>>98029661That just makes the story subcersive.
>>98053505You're using stirner terminology wrongly. Identitarian politics are 100% a spook but stirner does believe that evil actually exists.
>>98037328It's true
>>98053394It’s bait
>>98040364>Counter to this is that those drawings promote sexualization of children.Does violent media promote violence?You don't want violent media banned.
>>98053485White people aren't *all* evil, anon...be reasonable.
>>98057224We live in a world where hierarchy built on violence and its application. Violence is the instrument that makes current system. Sex is an alternative instrument which can create different system and hierarchy (see chimps vs bonobo), but it will destroy current. That is why people who found their place in a current violence-based system fear sex and reject it like its a threat to their lives.
>>98027889Maybe this unpopular but I'm more in the boat of villians thinking their the good guy or at least justified. I don't mind the cartoon villian every now and then but I like my characters to be motivated by the idea that they are the main character of their story. The prodigy reaching for power out of their reach, the mercenary who's lost everything so now he does horrible things to fill the void with booze and whores, the scientist who is so autistic they can't see how harmful their invention or research could be for the world. This is the kind of stuff I love.
>>98058400there's room for both, some narratives can make better use of the nuanced villain and some can make better use of simple black and white moralityguess which one is more convenient for the tabletop game that has an extreme focus on combat
>>98057661No, no, you're right. I was too eager in my judgment. Browns, however...
>>98028173>No, I mean FOMO. They're similar concepts.You're stupid and your opinions are worthless, got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
>>98027889>Freirshit Fuck off
>Zoomers still seething days after the argument was had and overIncredible.
>>98027889By not having any.
>>98053505Evil is a practical category, inclusive of things that we categorically do not allow in our social group>And race is so obvious that it's not only visible at a glance, but is encoded into genetics.Just because your university professor made you swallow a heap of horseshit to scrape a passing grade, doesn't mean anybody else is obligated to swallow it too.Shit eater.
>>98061639
>>98051986Something like that, but there are individuals within the gestalt, sort of like growths in agar. It doesn't blend fine, rather likenesses attract each other, so the demons are all connected in some ways but discrete in others--part of the anguish of summoning them is that you cannot summon something without an identity, so the very act of bringing one into the mortal plane slices it out of the greater tapestry, forcing it to be a true invidiual again, which is part of why they react so poorly to it.>>98053481My take is that the "Gods," who are really just powerful spirits or servants of more powerful beings can save human souls, but they don't have the ability to just save everyone. They see Hell as an imminent threat to everything, and in some cases also feel sympathy for humans. They can only save those who resonate with them closely, and their creation of cults is an attempt to make more human beings resonate with them so that they can save them after death.A lot of time the way they do this makes no sense. What does not demolishing old buildings except in spring have to do with good and evil? Nothing, but it has a lot to do with whether the Sun God can pluck your soul out of the descent to Hell or not. Supposedly The God, essentially the next tier up in the divine hierarchy, will return someday and save everyone, but it's been a long time with no word and the local deities are getting desperate, hence why they've started fighting each other over disagreeements in whose way saves more.(Also yes, finish the fucking books Bakker)
>>98027889I just use renegade golems or other constructs; ones that were given orders to do something but took them to an extreme the person who gave the original order didn’t consider, and started repairing themselves to do it.
>>98059718Frieren is based and you are mad.
>>98064425So, by "individuals", do you mean specific people/souls/whatever?Or something like, uh… sub-gestalts within the larger gestalt that encompasses everyone?What of the demons' physical appearance? I'm having a hard time picturing them without at least some amount of body horror.Is it informed by the constituent souls, like some sort of "body blueprint"?If so, I imagine it'd be utterly messed up from overlaying several dozens of them, with little regard for how things "fit" together.Could result in a Frankenstein's monster-like creature with mismatched parts, if it even resembles a human to begin with.>part of the anguish of summoning them is that you cannot summon something without an identity>the very act of bringing one into the mortal plane slices it out of the greater tapestry, forcing it to be a true individual againThis sounds fucking horrific, and the alternative to NOT being summoned is also equally horrific.10 cosmic horrors outta 10, your imagination is messed up in all the right ways, and I love it.
>>98067386>slopgeon meshiThe "I exclusively consoom reddit-approved media" starter pack
>>98062354honk
For D&D/PF: If they have potential for free will they can be non-evil, but since most of them live in evil societies (gnoll/drow for example) fuelled and supported by evil deities hardly any of them do.If they are just plain axiomatically evil (demon/devils and so on) they just are evil. Non-negotiable. Mercy is wasted on them.In other games, such as, say Stormbringer or Hawkmoon, the setting and themes require a post-modern take since Michael Moorcock (Hurr!) is a whiny anarchist wimp, despite his occasionally stellar writing.For settings such as Middle Earth or Narnia (is there a Narnia-based RPG? I have no idea), I imagine it would be similar to the way I handle it in D&D.In Sword & Sorcery-genre games good/evil is not as much an issue as "it is alien and dangerous without a morality that is understandable to humans. Best kill it."
>>98027942>>98033173>>98028046I love the bizarre contrarianism people on this board exhibit. Frieren is one of the best fantasy stories in any medium of the past decade (along with dungeon meshi), but because some young people are a bit over-zealous and think it's the best thing ever, you feel compelled to hate it.
>>98038524dude are you going to post anything resembling proof of your incorrect claim?
>>98032115>VerseFucking die, power scaler.
>>98056927>Morality is not compatible with egoism, because it doesn’t accept me, but only the humanity in me.No I'm not. Morality is a spook and he repeatedly says as much throughout all of his writing. Like... this is one of the points that he harps on quite a bit. I have no idea how you could read him and come away thinking that he believes in evil. I can't think of a single instance where he even implies such. Even if he did believe in evil (which again, he does not), I wouldn't care because I'm not Stirner.>Isn’t all the foolish chatter, for example, in most of our newspapers, the babble of fools, who suffer from the fixed ideas of morality, legality, Christianity, etc., and only appear to walk about freely because the madhouse in which they wander covers such a vast space?
>>98067511How many days until your graduation, Anon?
>>98039620In Races of the Dragon at least, kobolds are basically in a "real communist" society. They don't use currency among themselves. All resources are allocated based on need. Everyone looks out and labors for the good of the whole because it's what the collective needs. No commoner kobolds exist--the "regular" ones are experts. Every kobold works super hard for the good of the many. Leadership is not hereditary but based purely on merit. Any surplus production is reinvested into defense or magic, or traded for key resources the collective needs.
>>98070562That's quite good actually.
>>98067497Thanks Anon. I've always felt that the threat of Hell and damnation is something really missing from fantasy. You can imagine how this would change the dynamic of Paladins or the equivalent thereof as well. Their Smite might just annihilate the soul of the victim instead of merely killing them, because adding to the pool of souls in Hell is just unacceptable even if that soul was committing wickedness in the realm of the living.
>>98072752>Their Smite might just annihilate the soul of the victim instead of merely killing themI would argue that, being champions of and conduits for the divine will, they might be sending those souls to the purgatory corner of their deity's afterlife instead.So that even the wicked have a place to go, rather than falling through the metaphorical metaphysical cracks, and dissolving in the gestalt of infinite suffering.I do agree, though, it does put a new spin on anything divine and infernal-related.Suddenly, a plot about some madman dragging the whole world down into Hell, or dipping even a small part of it into that ocean of souls becomes genuinely terrifying.
>>98027942I like Frieren demons because it had mother fuckers bending over backwards trying to make them redeemable or saying "always evil races are problematic" and other bullshit arguments.It's a litmus test for the people of a population that would sympathize conquering hordes of invaders with a clear mission statement of "Kill everyone" because fighting back is "wrong" and "ignorant".
>>98067791>Frieren is one of the best fantasy stories in any medium of the past decade (along with dungeon meshi)The bar is in hell.
>>98073036People who write this sort of thing tend to be the ones who'd collaborate with a different horde of invaders, as long as they're "based" and have cool aesthetics.
>>98072752>because adding to the pool of souls in Hell is just unacceptable even if that soul was committing wickedness in the realm of the living.Hell is good and the people who end up there deserve nothing less.
>>98073241Is loyalty to the in-group more important than the principles to which one should aspire?Which kind of Chud will you choose to be?
>>98073220Why do you say that?
>>98027889Why is freiren so popular with conservatives? They all act like it's breaking some new ground, when I can think of entire GENRES of porn featuring always evil races.And that's not even mentioning the countless mainstream examples that keep coming up.
>>98027942It really is. I can think of nothing interesting about frieren's portrayal. Even goblin slayer, the obvious pornographic edgy hack job, did it more interestingly.I think, these days, that watching alien would break almost every modern person. Both because of the slow pace, and because of the extremely basic rape and transformation themes being BRAND NEW UNTOUCHED GROUND for much of the modern viewership.
>>98072752>I've always felt that the threat of Hell and damnation is something really missing from fantasy. The fuck are you talking about hells are present and horrible in the most popular tabletop system there is.It's literally THE most common and normal setting-o-type in /tg/.
>>98073019>>98073384Both of you are retarded for not pointing out how incredibly common hells are in tabletop.
>>98067791Frieren was interesting up until it decided it was a shounen battle anime.So for like, half a season.
>>98076921It's just part of generational pussification.Like how everyone is afraid of unknowningly eating bugs nowadays when the same fear manifested in the past as having people knowingly eating dead people and not caring because life was so bleak.
>>98076984It's wild how we've known that bankers are evil since the dawn of history, and still we're trying to find anything to blame but bankers.Especially since killing all bankers would remove your problem people as well.
>>98076888Modern conservatives have such miniscule reference pools in terms of popular media that even the most normie-facing samples surprise and awe them.
>>98076995there's a reason most cultures throught history have forbidden interest and considered ALL interest to be usury.
>>98077009It's well known to be FUCKING HORRIBLE, but no, let's find anything else to blame.
>>98077004I have to wonder if these are the same people that would be mindbroken by one trip to /d/.Like, fuck, the entire combination of transformation and mind break tags is rife with the stuff.
>>98070562That's just an extended family unit in the archaic sense.Like, extended to the size of a city-state."Communism" comes with a bunch of ideological bullshit that frankly, evil tiny dragon people don't really have.
>>98076888>>98076921>>98077004>>98077022This dude is really spamming his rape porn addiction as proof he's media literate.
>>98027889Make them black. Easy to identify.
>>98082388They're right tho. Frieren is so bland than even hentai with rape is better
>>98082484>>98077004What's some actually good media for Media Literate™ knowers?
>>98029661oh really? even the giant evil looking magic guy and the ghosts that copy your memories?you know the walking talking demons are only one sub-species, right?
>>98027942Frieren is intentionally the archetypical hero vs demon king fantasy world and somehow people still struggle with it
>>98030192Gold guy might have claimed he's trying to co-exist, but as soon as they handed him a suicide gun that kills him if he thinks like a human, he's put it to the test without hesitation, once again proving that they are fundamentally incompatible
>>98033183>tee hee i'm a homosexualHow about you fuck off
>>98053505so should we also stop classifying animals because your feelings don't agree?
>>98029901Roasting your mom while your dad watches. It's very traditional and enjoyed by many.
>>98077009fun fact, they are forbidden to charge fees and interest on loans against their own people because their holy text says the same thing, but their lawyers twisted it so it only applies to them
>>98082631Yup.Also, the Ashkenazim think they can trick God into displacing their sins onto a chicken, in a ritual called "Kapparot".I am disgusted by the act, less by the animal sacrifice, and more by the idea that a people could believe you can just "trick" God, and that he somehow is OK with this.I'm an atheist, but it just rubs me up the wrong way.It's insincere, impiety couched as piety.
>>98027889Frieren was great. Teaches you about the dangers of pathological altruism.Next one should be about EverQuest tho.„I know my race is kill on sight but look I have genocided the people yo don’t like now let me into your city „
Morally grey villains that are just misunderstood are a plague on mondern media and ‘watching refugees are welcome here’ tourists melt down over demons being irredeemably evil was funny
>>98082843>the idea that a people could believe you can just "trick" God>It's insincere, impiety couched as pietyWelcome to Judaism, goyim, aka Rule Lawyering: The Religion.>>98082894Morally-grey villainy also tends to be done piss-poorly, from what I've seen. Most of the time it comes off as some non-committal fence-sitting faggotry.I will disagree on Frieren demons being evil, however. I'll leave out the redemption, however.They are as evil as any man-eating predator. Wolves aren't evil, nor are tigers, pumas, or lions.It's just their very nature of an apex predator of their respective environment.Those demons are simply well-adapted to preying on humans, with all our emotional and intellectual complexity. That doesn't make them evil.It does, however, make them very likely to be killed on sight, and generally subject to extermination, being an existential thread to humans.Muddying things up even more, we don't even know if they're even fully sapient, or if they're just that good at pretending to be.I'll say this, though, they make a really good case of a race truly alien to humanity, unlikely to ever not be an implacable enemy by their very nature.Again, doesn't make them evil, just a dangerous predator in need of population control, or a complete extermination, depending on how much resources you can spare.
>>98027889I simply don’t have any. Antagonist factions, sure, but no all-evil races.
>>98082388Anon, if you've not at LEAST seen five dozen variants of this rape scenario, you're like 12.
>>98083203>>98082843I actually quite like how jews try to rules lawyer their holy text, as that indicates they believe it is true. It also is factually how someone SHOULD act if they think a text is the direct word of an all powerful, all knowing, and good entity. The word of the law is imperative, as it IS the spirit of the law.
>>98085034It's because the people in charge of their holy text were not priests, but lawyers that proceeded to apply endless law alchemy to every single pageThat's how every page became surrounded giant margins full of interpretations while the actual text sits inside of a tiny bullseye in the center
>>98067511Newfag
>>98085034Except there are times when God outright says>hey retards I obviously didn't fucking mean that, stop being retardedTo which the jews go>Nuh uh GOD, you, the Divinity who wrote the very law im citing, cant just change the law You wroteAnd in their supreme arrogance they genuinely think that they pulled a fast one on God, that he just shrugged his shoulders and admitted defeat. They know full well they violate the spirit of the law by acting like they follow its exact letter This is why God makes them snip the tips of their picks off
>>98085034Eh, I posit it to you, that if I have been imbued with the original sin, and knowing in me the distinction between good, and evil, and so, the responsibility to choose good, I declare that the substitution of a penitent is a fundamental miscarriage of justice.Can you say any different?
>>98027942The demons in Frieren and the way to weaponise words is incredibly antisemitic
>>98085305If god came down from the heavens to tell them to stop being retarded, they would just say that antisemitism is far more widespread than they thought
Why are one group completely evil in a fantasy setting?They are actually banished criminals from a far away land. Think how Australia used to be a prison colony.Raycizzum problem solved!
>>98086399But Australians now aren't ev... no, fuck it, you're right.
>>98027889>How do you handle all-antagonistic races in your setting?For my players, any race is an all-antagonistic race.
>>98086490Kinda sounds like your players are the antagonistic force.
>>98076941Yeah but it always feels kind of goofy and chungus. People in D&D never seem afraid of going to Hell, even though it's like a verifiable fact that it exists. you would think that being aware that lake of fire and millennia of demon-rape would scare people straight, instead there are evil fucks running around all over the place.I can't tell you how many times I've heard some fedora fuck blither about how "u need sky daddy to not be ebil" and then runs a game where Hell is verifiably real and you can open a portal to it to see it for yourself, but a quarter of the population is still made up of casually evil people. Hell is one of the worst done aspects of the typical fantasy setting.
>>98034340>>98027942There are millennials who think the Demons are misunderstood. You're one of them clearly brainlet
>>98038841People are attracted to food when they are hungry. Pedophilia is born from lost childhood innocence; elite power games create tons of it, as does circumcision. It's a very vicious cycle that must be broken on all levels.
>>98034340Frieren is soft disclosure.
>>98029901I never got why these bait posts became the norm. Even casual interaction with the hobby is enough to know that you need some knowledge as a writer to keep a campaign going. TTRPGs are basically just what happens when you combine collaborative storytelling with dice and rules.
>>98082843Judaisms whole schtick is rules lawyering God. Is it any wonder why their history is full of exile, disaster, and death?
>>98090753There's religious concept of hell, and there's the infernal plane that you can visit and see for yourself, like you said.It may not even be THE Hell, with a capital H, just some adjacent plane with a similar look.Crazier still, it may not even be all that bad for the people going there because, for instance in Planescape, people go to the plane they most resonate with.Evil fucks go to evil planes, where they can be the evilest evil pricks they can be, killing, raping, and torturing to their evil hearts' content.
>>98027889Frieren!
>>98092274PAWG and PTWG elves aren't realeven if every man in the world wishes they were
>>98048474>demons aren't anything by defaultAnon, "demons" as a term comes with 3000 years of historical baggage as the default. History doesn't just stop existing just because you refuse to read anything without pictures.
>>98082484anon have you considered that you might just have terminally shit taste
>>98093373Fririen is nothing special.
>>98093890But I want to have anal sex with her
>>98076921I don't think you've ever experienced anything but tiktoks about either. I don't think you've ever even played a tabletop game because if you did you'd understand the appeal of both. You're not the target audience, stick to helluva boss and jizzbin hotel. Which you probably watch with ads because computers are also a mystery to you.
>>98027889Just have them do it, having an ontologically even race has been a thing throughout nearly every mythology and culture. Demons have been a thing for centuries. I don’t see why people get up in arms over it. Unless of course they see something of themselves in the evil creatures but that’s more of a them issue.
>>98095110Ontologically even, so they're forced by nature into neutrality, like modrons, and act like a counter force against whatever the biggest aligned power in the setting is at any moment.
>>98093163that baggage is self-contradictory to the point where they're just "magical spirits... maybe" without any other traits that can be consistently assigned to them, not even the idea that they're evil, the origin of the word demon is as a parallel word to fairy in other words, about the same but less specific than stuff like kobold (and i wonder why none of you weenies ever whine that kobolds are dog or lizard people in modern fantasy when they aren't even remotely that in folklore either)people who whine about how demons need to be always evil are just equating them to satan for no real mythological reason
>>98027889Make them embody something my players don’t like, in addition to being evil. The villains in my dark future mech campaign are basically HR types with super advanced tech they don’t understand. Basically a whole faction of nepo babies with skill chips implanted in their brains.
>>98097024Nta, but every single culture on earth has had a concept of "Evil Spirits", and that is what the word "Demon" means.You can argue semantics about it originating from "Daimon" but that's linguistic drift; the word "Demon" means explicitly an EVIL spirit right here and now, and for about as long as it has existed in that particular form.You wanna do something else with it?Whatever.But it isn't a proper use of the terminology, and you can't demand people to respect it, and when you use the word apropos to nothing, it automatically has connotations, which YOU don't get to decide, because you exist in this thing called a -culture- and words like "Demon" are common property, which you do not own in particular.What these words mean is contingent on what they mean -to other people-.
>>98098768well it clearly doesn't explicitly mean evil spirit here and now if people keep shitposting about non-evil demons, doesn't it you fucking retard
>>98027889I just make them drones, like Tolkien orcs but less rowdy.
>>98056868I never once complained about leftists having media literacy. If they had media literacy then they wouldn’t be so fucking disingenuous now would they?
>>98094334This man is really seething that his anime got called basic.
>>98098363Okay, I have to hear more about this please!
>>98098363>Make them embody something my players don’t like, in addition to being evilWhat if you don't know what your players won't like?
Awful thread
>>98027889Evil is divided into various forms. >Animalism If it would occur this type of troglodyte evil wins; ie. strong gorilla forces the pack to be wrong together or get smacked out of the gene pool - then they establish abusive cycles where gorilla cubs are raised to rinse and repeat, however they are always more and more damaged by this. They will be insecure, hostile, wounded and slow to change. >Atavistic hatredBurning the world so your enemies or perceived enemies won't have anything to enjoy? You become a failure or the reset button for the world that forgets you and your enemies. >Machiavellian evilDies to sloppification as it turns everything into a game and then a meta game; not playing is the winning move and staying in is a loss. >CrueltyPaid in kind >OppositionBecomes the red to the blue of the other; becomes the woman to the man, the left to the right.. This one is solved with love.
>>98082563>shouldno
>>98115148Awful necrobump
>>98115244Interesting analysis. Thanks for sharing it, do you have any other thoughts on the matter sir anon?
>>98073019Interesting consequence of your Smite marking the Soul to go to Purgatory idea. That means each of the "benevolent" gods of the setting are downright myopic bastards equally empowered by synchronistic resonance and destructive interference; especially if they approach matters from the point of view that souls are better sent to purgatory than left alone to "fall through the cracks". Suddenly there's stakes between the deities to struggle over, because one follower in another god's purgatory is one not resonating with you. Also leaves open the possibility Hell isn't even so bad. At least there isn't something trying to Procrustean Bed you into resonance because you got marked by some zealot before you died. Divinity suddenly takes on the dual nature we would expect of transcendental beings. Equally the source of solace and suffering, pain and ecstasis all at once. To such beings, the reservoir of untapped "Soul" being available for something else not resonant with one of those beings wouldn't be anything but an ontological threat. Other Anon is right. That shit's twisted in all the most horrifying ways. God's, celestials, or hellspawn, none bode well for any mortal and is best left alone. In their own twisted ways, a Paladin or cleric is as bad news as a Warlock or Anti-Paladin. Worst part is that none of the mortals have any clue that any aid they offer or solicit from these forces strictly makes the problem worse because they can't even conceive of the levels of the Cosmos on which these struggles take place or play out over.
>>98119451>because they can't even conceive of the levels of the Cosmos on which these struggles take place or play out overSounds perfect for a proper fantasy, actually. As fucked-up as it is, it's just the thing to give that disturbing sense of cosmic insignificance, really driving home the notion that there are things far beyond your mortal scope.Things that you, as a mortal, should avoid at all costs, not rush in headlong, pitching your services to whatever deity that strikes your fancy.Makes it all the more impactful if you have the misfortune of, somehow, attracting the attention of one of them, and have their "holy mission" thrust upon you.>In their own twisted ways, a Paladin or cleric is as bad news as a Warlock or Anti-Paladin.Something something (post)modernism.
>>98117211Yes. Sometimes evil is a corrosive force that is borne from differences. Imagine if Sauron was an AI, and was tasked with population control for a goal. It would use abstract means to reach key targets, long lost to time. It would influence evolutionary trajectories and pit conflicts. However, it would merge the various types of evil in doing so and work so subtly it would become a myth or a conspiracy theory.
>>98031987>Those monsters murder our people and pillage our cities for fun, and make gross trophies out of our remains>That's why we murder their kin and pillage their dwelling, while making cool trophies out of their worthless corpses. And don't forget to have fun when you're at it.
Idiotic thread
>>98124163You can't help yourself, can you?
>>98027889I hate the main character mindset.>I gave an evil race a chance so you must change the worldbuilding to reward me.
>>98033293Uh yeah that demon's evil and they already killed her in the manga dude
>>98033183Sounds like you're a pedo who only watches loli porn because all the elves I see in jap stuff are horny big titty mommy milfs raping young adventurer men
>>98125492Evolution doesn't mean becoming good for all races. At least not at the same pace.
>>98125628She was literally studying humans to learn how to kill them better
>>98073241If they're invading with my ideals then the term is "liberators"
>>98033724Reminds me of To Your Eternity, except the baddies in that are a spiritual hivemind that sees pain and corporeal forms as torturous prisons, so bodysnatching and murder are completely justified to them. The immortal MC has to progress from fighting the physical battle of saving lives to the philosophical battle of whether they're even wrong.
>>98033293>Revolte mentions hearing about an "unusual" demon that studies humansShe's unusual because she talks to and dissects them instead of just killing and eating them.
>>98027889It depends on the race and their lore but let me catch someone playing a "good" skaven and the only way they aren't getting shanked in 5 minutes tops is if it's actually some master scheme to kill their rivals.
Orcs need to be evil
>>98027889They're bad and do evil things. The denizens of my setting don't care why the centaurs hanging their neighbour's on trees or why orcs are throwing their parents into furnace, and neither do I.
>>98132400>Orcs need to be evilWhy, besides Tolkien doing it?
>>98132400>puckee aka redditor pucke℮21 spamming his commission againhttps://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/1f7fyl0/artcomm_orc_by_pedro_silva/https://desuarchive.org/_/search/image/tsy_l8sbr_q-AwGFvIghuw/>51 times since September 2024
>>98076948>Frieren was interesting up until it decided it was a shounen battle anime.Funnily enough, it ends up doing the best shounen battle anime arc ever seen on TV.So it gets a pass.
>>98029625sounds extremely mexican
