enlightenment edition>dead /trek/>>220480616
watching academy after suffering through discovery is such a relief.in a way, academy is anti-ent. where ent was made to appeal to the gooner npc masses, academy is made to appeal to nerds. thankfully it won't save kurtzman from being let go, that hack makes rick bermans work look good in comparison.Whoever gets showrunner after him better soft-retcon the discovery timeline to be part of the temporal cold war. maybe that's why cronenberg agreed to play old daniels.
>>98049534It's a bit of a shame that the show that killed nutrek is one that's really not that bad. I liked it more than Discovery, Picard and SNW at the very least.
oh shit this is /tg/ not /tv/i fucked up
>>98049683TO LATE, WHAT GAMES YOU RUNNING?!?!
>>98049712oh jeez. Fading Suns and Cthulhutech mostly, D&D5 for beer&pretzel oneshots. are any of the star trek rpgs worth it?
Best system for a TOS style monster of the week format?
>>98049534>academy is made to appeal to nerdsIt's made to appeal to the crowd that watches CW dramas. There's nothing nerdy about it.
>>98049683I havent been to /tv/ in years so its fine.>>98049712I started a solo game a very long time ago and need to find my notes so I can continue it. Set during the lost era though
>>98049534>>98049639I never thought I would see the day where /tv/ has the better takes than /tg/. Shit, am I going to stumble upon /v/ one day and find just the most astonishingly based take?
>>98052056If you've come to think Academy is a good show, you've wasted too much of your life watching nuTrek and destroyed your sense of taste. Go rewatch TNG and DS9 to reset your palate a bit.
Favorite beta canon elements to implement into your sessions?
>>98052068I don't, and neither does /tv/. The two anons I replied to love it, though.
>>98052080Force-field Belts!
>>98052068Academy and Prodigy Season 1 I like. Academy especially since it finally has self-contained episodes again instead of one storyline stretched over a season like discovery and picard did.Got all the old stuff on DVD and/or bluray too, big trekkie, watched all of it multiple times over the years.That's just how taste goes I guess. probably helps that I have no issues with homosexuality or any ethnicities. not to suggest you do but a lot of the criticism I've seen has been around that.
>>98052080Much of Star Trek Online
>>98052056>>98052091Love might be a bit much, I just think it was fine and had potential. I at least liked it more than the SNW season that also aired last year and was terrible. >>98052080I like going to different Starbases.
>>98052568I want each species/power to have their own unique look to starbases, so while the Federation bases have a general look (basically mushroom-like), I want to see, say, Andorian "curvy boxed" stations and Tellarite "rounded and green" stations.
>>98052518I'm so assmad that 99% of the stuff they do now is nuTrek garbage. They went to the trouble of creating a whole fucking set of assets for TOS and used it to make a short intro for a timetravel story that almost instantly dumps you into a bunch of Shitscovery content.
>>98052467Prodigy is fine, but you're bullshitting yourself about Academy. The fact that it's a poorly written and poorly executed throughline doesn't mean that the show isn't primarily about Caleb, his missing Mom, Holly Hunter, and Paul Giamatti. To a lesser extent it's also about the Betazoid girl and her lame drama. It's definitely not written like STD and Picard where they wanted to be Game of Thrones in space, but instead it's written like a shitty netflix drama instead where they introduce the premise in the first few episodes, waste time for the middle part, and then smash back to the real plot in the last few episodes.
>>98052663We get so few starbases in general which is a shame, much less alien ones. Seems like a neglected part of the franchise compared to ships>>98053049I dont personally care but it's safe to assume that once the last two seasons of this era airs they'll go back to more general stuff, it makes sense they'll throw in new ships from a new show as it airs.>>98053509> The fact that it's a poorly written and poorly executed throughline doesn't mean that the show isn't primarily about Caleb, his missing Mom, Holly Hunter, and Paul Giamatti.this is just how episodic shows do things now, they're still going to have a series through line, it's just some shows do it better than others.
>>98053570>this is just how episodic shows do things nowThat throughline takes up the majority of the screentime, and everything else isn't really self-contained. Not that it's actually a bad thing to put the cast of characters through their own arcs so they can reach the climax and be ready to assume their roles as part of a crew. They just did it poorly and they made the real plot of the show about a single character. So it's not really episodic and it's not self-contained, for the most part.
>>98053509I have favorite episodes again, just as you write, it's less serialization and I enjoy that. I don't actually care for any metaplot much, from the trial of Q to the Dominion War to Voyager coming home those were always narrative vessels to me, something to give the characters a reason to keep going, wow those who enjoy high stakes. the juice to me has always been the character studies, the single episode aliens with original philosophies, honorable mention to the space dwelling organisms. I grew up watching most of trek in sindication, so what you call "waste time for the middle part" is the actual juicy bit to me.Series Acclimation Mil is my favorite episode of Academy, watched it three times already, and it's of no consequence for the larger plot, just a comfy and interesting character study of SAM, the two Chancellors, the Doctor and Jett Reno my beloved. The Life Of The Stars is great too, it deals with grief and responsibility in a way I've only seen Trek do on DS9 so far, with little effect on the metaplot.Similar to the way I run my tabletop campaigns, I don't do world ending threats, I string interesting small concepts together and let the player characters decide what's most important to them individually so that we can have a comfy tavern round every month or two just talking about the experiences we made and what we learned.
>>98053654>Series Acclimation Mil is my favorite episode of AcademyThe kind of shit you couldn't waterboard out of most people. Sorry about your shit taste. Hope you can get better.
>>98054524i feel joy of my own accord, you feel anger based on strangers opinionsone of us is winning
>>98053654Series Acclimation Mil feel like it has all the elements of a character study of Sam, then 90% of it got tossed out the window so they can jerk off over Sisko.The ingredients are set up for a climax where Sam tells her "parents" to fuck off and they respond by trying to remotely terminate her, the Doctor has to perform emergency surgery to install some kind of firewall, and he's forced to ask Caleb to assist as the only other person with experience hacking Sam's program.Instant there's a vague "The Prophets could be jerks to Sisko so I guess I should learn to live with the other holograms being jerks to me."
>>98054606How sad for you.
>>98053570They didn't just throw in ships though, the actual storyline content is heavily woven through with nuTrek stuff. One of the plots is them importing one of the Shitscovery Klingorcs into the game as a villain for a whole arc of episodes. It's inescapable.The game was going downhill ever since they nixed the Foundry of course, but the nuTrek tie-ins have fully ruined it. Even when they produce classic content like TOS Movie uniforms they half-ass them and give them random-ass colour palettes that don't match the films or even each other, and half of each era's gear is locked behind premium currency you can only get by opening gambleboxes and locked to character - not even fucking account, specific character. STO is megadead man.
>Join trek rpg game>Want to play a cardassian because they're cool>Literally every other player is also a cardassian
>>98058797Would have been cooler if you all were Bajoran, anon
>>98058797Time to go occupy some inferior planets, bros
>>98058070>The game was going downhill ever since they nixed the Foundry of course>that was 7 years agoJesus Christ where the fuck does the time go
>>98049458More like transporter malfunction edition
>>98054686remote termination would make the Kasqians assholes unworthy of ever being federation members. if they expect others to consider them an advanced species, killing their people for disagreeing would prove that wrong.I see a different message in that episode, one about free will and purpose, to which I find Sisko to be great example for SAM to follow. He disagreed with the Prophets all the time, and fulfilled his purpose on his own terms. The words of Sisko at the end sum it all up nicely to me>Divine laws are simpler than human ones, which is why it takes a lifetime to be able to understand them.>Only love can understand them.>Only love can interpret these words as they were meant to be interpreted.
I have been waiting for a trek thread. In any of the rpg systems for trek there any particular premade adventures you guys liked? I'm looking for stuff to try with my group
>>98049534Discovery is the original timeline for the reboot movies (also written by Kurtzman).I would argue that only a portion of what happened in these shows happened in the "original" timeline. For example, there may have been a Discovery, but it looks like this, and it certainly didn't have any bullshit spore drive nonsense. Maybe it and the Glenn were transwarp testbeds before Excelsior; the military doesn't usually just build one project and call it a day.
>>98061738adding a very well thought-out aged daniel (cronenberg) in the final season opens that up nicely. Mistakes were made, but they're not unfixable. Variant Timelines existing in parallel without the need to "close the loop" are solid canon now, which I much appreciate.Kurtzmans contract is running out, no new shows planned. Here's hoping for Terry Matalas and Gaia Viola to team up as showrunners next.
>>98049639
>>98063167STD was the worst show of all time
>>98050966This
Stargazers releases today iirc
>>98063399Didn’t like academy in general, but i did like their ds9 episode. Ill give this a look
>>98058797As it should be.
>>98053654>Series Acclimation Mil is my favorite episode of AcademyI liked it but it's a bit overrated, the framing device is just a bit too obnoxious and the show is a bit too in love with Sisko, Sisko is great but the show shouldnt dip into feeling like fanfic, that's SNW's job.>>98058070I think a big part of your issues are just the general death of live service games. The Voyager game is a start but we need more single player stuff. Would love a Lower Decks game even if it would sell 10 copies.>>98061561Seconding this question
>>98063167Terry Matalas, primary author of Picard Season 2, that Terry Matalas? I know the rest of nuTrek buried the level of most people's standards so deep that if they're ever dug up again they'll have turned into fossil fuels, but a few whizzbang keyjangling nostalgiabait moments in Picard S3 doesn't mean Matalas is actually good, and the thought of his brand of 18% fanservice, 82% brain damage-tier "storytelling" being "the future of Trek" makes me want to override the safeties and beam myself into space.We need a clean break, a fresh start, a total fucking purge like the French Revolution. Everyone involved in nuTrek gone, forever - I'll settle for sackings over guillotines even though the latter is fully merited. Bring back people who worked on Trek when it was actually good, not hacks who merely made least-bad nuTrek, and allow them to choose their own acolytes and subordinates on the basis of who actually gets the IP. Stop trying to "reinvent" Trek and just make a fucking Star Trek show: diverse(as in, varied and interesting, not just 70% black American humans) crew on a ship dedicated to exploration, discovery, adventure, and peaceful contact with the unknown flying through space meeting cool new space aliens or space anomalies or space viruses or whatever which serve as a plot device to make *broad and general* comments(ie, not Le Orangeman Bad or In Defence Of Just War, by Captain Benjamin "Warcrimes For Breakfast" Sisko) about humanity from the perspective of an optimistic future where the problems we currently have are all solved, sprinkled with occasional pewpew lazors episodes for the attention span-deprived.It's simple. It's easy. It's so fucking obvious any random internet dipshit can come up with it. And if it doesn't work, if there's really no market for REAL Star Trek anymore as some contend, then STOP FUCKING MAKING STAR TREK instead of parading increasingly retarded garbage around in it's stolen skin.
>>98068153Problem is absolutely nobody really knows how to make Star Trek these days. Even the old guard are clueless. Its a franchise that needs to be left dead and buried.
>>98068153>>98068269the future of Star Trek was (and still is) animation. Until any live action nutrek show can manage to aim higher than even the worst season of any animated Trek that wont change.
>>98068994I just wish Star Trek tabletop wasn't so dead.
>>98069114it's such a dedicated fanbase that people will always be playing (I assume you have to be mindful of nutrek hostile/friendly tables based on where you land in that debate) but it does seem like new content is dead. There will likely be a new book for the 32nd century after academy ends but that's just it and also most people dont care for that era.
>>98068153>Terry Matalas, primary author of Picard Season 2, that Terry Matalas?Matalas was co-showrunner beneath Akiva Goldsmith, who has been involved in nearly every aspect of Kurtzmantrek. Matalas apparently pitched the idea of doing time travel stuff with Q, but he didn't get complete control over anything til season 3
>>98069114I've noticed a slight uptick in people locally willing to give Adventures or Ascendancy a go. Last campaign I had 2 newbies who got into it pretty easily.
>>98049458Recently got into Trek (pretty late, I know), currently watching TOS, TNG's definitely planned, also reading the RPG. Where does it get bad? Can obviously watch a bit of each show myself, just curious how much I have to look forwards to. Thanks
>>98072768ENT and Discovery are the low points. Picard comes after mostly due to its extreme serialization and anime-tier filler content but it has its charm to some, especially season 3 (I personally didn't like it but there are enjoyers around). SNW and Academy are less serialized thus easier to watch if you're not a binge watcher. Starting with TOS in [current year] is a weird choice, especially if you want to combine it with rpg fun, most tables roll "big three" era. Prodigy season 1 is good too, if juvenile, but that comes with the territory of being a nick toon.
>>98072768TNG alone has some pretty severe ups and downs, but I'd still take the worst TNG episodes over the best Discovery, Picard, or Academy episodes.DS9's initial seasons are not as bad as TNG's, but once it gets good, it stays good pretty much all the way through.Voyager is love it or hate it. If you're already enjoying the 90s era of trek, you'll probably have a good enough time going through it.Enterprise is fine. They just weren't able to be as good as previous Trek shows and it didn't get 7 seasons, but it never really hooked people the way even Voyager did. By the time you watch everything up to this point, you'll probably feel like doing a TNG or DS9 rewatch though.STD, Picard, SNW, and Academy are just not worth your time. Not even out of morbid curiosity. Again, even the worst old Trek is better than the very best these shows have to offer, including Picard S3's pandering fan service. Anyone telling you otherwise is playing a cruel joke on you or is so retarded that you shouldn't humor their opinions.If you like Voyager, you might like Prodigy because Hologram Janeway is a main character. The 2nd season is somewhat worse and wastes its limited time trying to rehab Wesley Crusher's disastrous character, because Wil Wheaton ran back to suck paramount's dick for pennies, now that his youtube career is dead. Lot of recent Trek media has tried to reintegrate Wesley Crusher after banishing the character from the series through space magic, and that should tell you what kind of people are working on Trek these days.
>>98072768TOS has a number of really bad episodes (same with TAS), TNG has a weak start but incredible overall run, DS9 is a bit quirky at points but is probably better than even TNG.VOY is good for memes but I find it rather difficult to go back to nowadays, ENT can be quite rough but it's last season was quite solid overall (the last episode though is quite cringe worthy).STD sucks, just avoid it. LD is spastic but carried the love of the series that earlier shows had. PIC s just generally not good in my opinion and then they went full nostalgia bait to the point it just hurts. Prodigy is actually rather good.Just don't watch Section 31, it is abysmal.Lastly, Academy is weird because there are like two rather good episodes and then the rest of it is just shit.Oh, and extra lastly - Star Trek Scouts is a toddler show that is weird because it shows the creators know a good deal about Trek but it's a show that is just dumb, like needing to save their base from a meatball comet. Good for a few "wtf" laughs but that's all..I highly suggest getting an episode view list for each series except DS9 and LD, just watch all of them.
>>98072768I think if you are a new fan then by the time you get to nutrek you'll want to watch everything and so you may as well (though if you hate discovery enough you'll probably skip academy).Depending on the kind of fan you are the low points will be a combination of Enterprise, Discovery and Picard. Voyager, SNW and Academy are also on the fence bad but you may like them. For every other show its typical ups and downs but mostly good.
>>98072768TOS you can watch about a third of the episodes and you've watched them all as the plots do repeat. Starfleet Battles in TOS era is also pretty good.TAS has a so bad its good vibe going for it but can be ignored.TNG starts rough but has the best run and more consistent quality. Had some decent RPG material and even used parts of the FASA RPG as fluff in the show.DS9 has a worse start than TNG but has the best characters that really make you forget how bad some episodes are.VOY was made as an excuse to banish all the retards dragging down DS9 but does have a few decent characters and moments.ENT is good when it is trying to be the whole birth of the federation and the Shran show otherwise suffers from a time travel war plotline that is tedious and drags the show down. There is no other Trek media after that unless you count The Orville.
>>98076275>DS9 has a worse start than TNGI think you are forgetting how many stinkers are in the first 2 seasons of TNG.
>>98076598Even the bad episodes of TNG are at least not boring.
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>>98078717this takes me back
>>98063327There's a legitimate argument to be made that it is. It has the same problem the Didney Wars sequels have- previously, even mediocre to bad entries have at least expanded the universe. STD actively shrinks it, and all in service of propping up a new greatest hero of all time no one asked for.
>>98063327>>98079557You guys dont watch enough TV man, it's not even the worst scifi of the 2020's. Have you guys even seen Halo? But also, Picard is worse.
>>98078344"The Battle">>98076275why does The Sisko, the time-adjacent alien, not simply call upon his leprechaun friend to help stop the Breen attack on Earth?
>>98081231I don't disagree. There's far worse shows out there, but the ways in which STD is bad aren't because the budget was low or the actors were all nobodies with no experience or anything else. It's a very intentional kind of bad. They made the exact kind of show they wanted to make, with huge budgets, massive casts, tons of special effects and CGI, and somehow that artistic vision was so deeply flawed and retarded that nothing about it is good. It's extremely rare for a production to try as hard as STD did, and still come out irredeemably bad.>>98081427LD is okay/10. I think people were too eager to praise it for all of the blatant nostalgia callback to DS9 and TNG, but when the only other new trek being made at the time was STD and PIC, LD was made to look amazing by comparison because they were, some of the time, actually trying to be somewhat like a more comedic TNG-era series.
>>98081466I think LD season 1 and 5 is just okay, but seasons 2 to 4 are genuinely great and makes the show overall well worth sitting alongside the classic shows. It's even more apparent after the show got cancelled and nutrek immediately became a wasteland. SNW season 3 probably benefited from not having a new season of LD come out a few weeks later to compare it to. It barely compares favorably to Academy.>>98081466>They made the exact kind of show they wanted to make, with huge budgets, massive casts, tons of special effects and CGI, and somehow that artistic vision was deeply flawedI agree, but I think that's what saves it, Discovery is very intentional, Picard and SNW are shows with no artistic vision except trying to "be good" and they fell flat on their face. You cant even point at something the show was trying to be to defend them. They may be easier to watch, but I just find them way worse. Even if Discovery ended early they made a finale that closed the book on what they were, while Picard and presumably SNW will end screaming for relevance and getting nothing anyways. LD alluded to earned spinoffs that build on original ideas the show had, while the other two end moving dominos around so that they can be even more deeply nostalgic than they currently are.
>>98081427Anon, fucking censor that! This a blue board!
>>98076598Some guy went through and aggregated several ranked lists of episodes. By the time you have counted from the bottom of his combined list to reach a total of 26 s1 or s2 episodes you're only 43 positions from the bottom. 26 Episodes is equivalent to one season. Only 3 s1 episodes and 8 from s2 are in the top half, but if quality was even you'd expect half of every season to be in the top half, while fully half of s1 and s2 are in the bottom quarter of all TNG episodes.>>98081330>The BattleI don't much like it but that's middle of the list. There are far worse.
>>98081427I liked it when it came out, I like it still these few years later. Apart from a handful of VOY episodes it is the only good ST tv show or movie since DSN went off the air.>>98076275>Had some decent RPG material and even used parts of the FASA RPG as fluff in the show.Can you name some? Because I had a very hard time doing so. OTOH I can name things that FASA made up that were contradicted by TNG whose writers were famous for ignoring non-tv and movie lore, transwarp possibly the most obvious. The FASA TNG source book made stuff up and came with a warning that some of the things they made up would be "invalidated" by TNG. It was their invented TNG material that directly led to Paramount revoking FASA's licence.John M Ford contributed to the sense of Klingon honour and steered them away from cold war space soviets who looked like mongols to sort of cold war space samurai. While FASA put that in the RPG and TNG Klingons became space samurai-vikings which looks like influence from the RPG, FASA copied from Ford rather than inventing it themselves.
>>98081231The difference is Halo was never good. There's nothing of value there to destroy.As for Picard, it's much the same situation, but it was at least able to produce a few tasty memberberries when it realized it should. They even managed to spin the positronic twin bullshit into a silver lining by resolving Data and Lore in a satisfying way.
>>98082536Halo indeed, was never good.But you also seem to be attempting to justify why you watched "Old man is gay with toaster": Nostalgia edition.
>>98082536But this mentality is exactly why Picard is so shit. Trek is supposed to be a franchise that looks ever forward, the only time "memberberries" have a place are during the "handover" to a new crew where a cameo may be appropriate, and during the emotional farewell to a given crew - the TNG cast got theirs *30 fucking years ago*. Picard is just Patrick Stewart's maudlin personal ego trip, and Matalas throwing in a bunch of>'MEMBER X? WOWEE STAR TREK SURE USED TO BE COOL HUHdoesn't fix that.
>>98082973>'MEMBER X? WOWEE STAR TREK SURE USED TO BE COOL HUHThis is exactly why Lower Decks doesn't land for me. So much of its reputation of being made by "real trek fans" amounts to referencing some one-off shit like it's some lore deep cut and not just shit they pulled off the wiki>hey remember the exocomps?>hey remember okana?>hey remember this one off anomaly of the week?
>>98082536>They even managed to spin the positronic twin bullshit into a silver lining by resolving Data and Lore in a satisfying way.The Data thing wasnt satisfying because the entire show stopped in its tracks just to bring back Data purely because Data "had" to be in the ending, and it felt so obvious that it rang hollow. All TV is moving around puzzle pieces but making it so blatant takes you out of it.>>98083774The big difference is that one has things to offer beyond that and one doesnt. What does Picard have besides references to the past? All the new stuff is just the old stuff, the new crew is just the old crew and the kids of the old crew. The new ship is made to look like a classic ship and be called enterprise. Lower Decks did that sometimes (the crystalline entity bit was a bit much) but it also had new characters and ships completely disconnected from the past. They brought back the Exocomp but made a new character out of it. If Picard brought one back it would be one of the ones they showed in TNG talking about how great the Enterprise was.
>>98082813Merely justifying why it isn't QUITE as bad as Discovery. Make no mistake, memberberries aside the show is rancid nonsensical ass as damaging to the canon as an STD.>>98082973>Trek is supposed to be a franchise that looks ever forwardMmm, no. No, I think if it were exclusively supposed to be that TOS wouldn't be laden with episodes returning to then-modern times, or Kirk explaining the Declaration of Independence to aliens. The idea that things in the past are inherently worse than things in the future was, ironically, more of a TNG theme, which I suppose still makes it a valid argument that Picard shouldn't be seeking memberberries.
>>98082536It was good as a mystery box video game. Hit all the good sci-fi notes for the medium. Then they tried to turn it into an epic narrative experience no one asked for or cared about aimed at little kids who's only experience with storytelling thus far was see spot run and maybe yugioh or something. I wouldn't judge it based on anything more than the first game. Everything after that was microsoft gonna microsoft.
>>98081427Behold
>>98087408>have to travel through the nacelles to work on the sensorsBut why
>>98087422That's where sensor stuff happoens
>>98082536>There's nothing of value there to destroy.In terms of story, the Halo games are average. I enjoyed the game play when I finally got around to playing but the story itself is run of the mill. But I'm damn sure that when I sat through the first couple of episodes of that show they showed Master Chief's face. That was something of value they destroyed, not as much as ST, but still something. The fact that the tv show's characters were unlikable and its situations implausible was bad enough but add in showing the face, that just nose dived.The later games themselves destroyed value because Master Chief was supposed to be the last Spartan but microsoft wanted more money so there were spartans who didn't die in the Fall of Reach.
>>98082973Pretty much nail hit on the head. >>98086170I like some of these designs look perfectly sane and reasonable from certain angles but the moment you change perspective you can sense where the artist took cocaine.>>98087440I always felt that Halo was a franchise that tried to take itself too seriously. That they thought their story had deeper meaning than it actually did when it really was a generic write yourself into a corner and deus ex machina yourself out of a situation plot that made me wonder if Stackpole had written it. It did have a decent aesthetic and some fun gameplay to it I will give it that.I also watched the show not particularly because I was interested but to torment a friend who was super into Halo by sending him pics of Master Cheeks.
>>98087408>>98087422I still don't understand why they don't just draw more from the Pegasus concept art and suspend the secondary hull from the saucer directly, you still get the same basic layout of components but it solves all the dumb "for what purpose?" elements of the California.That said, just getting rid of the stupid fucking special snowflake nacelles is a huge improvement.
>>98086434Jesus christ you're a dim bulb aintcha. "Looking ever forward" doesn't mean "no time travel" you fucking galoot, it means the IP should be moving forward relative to itself, building on what came before, exploring ideas from new perspectives, rather than sharting out an endless parade of prequels and pre-sequels and reboots of TOS, or jumping thousands of years into a meaningless post-apocalyptic future with no relevance to the IP's "present day".The proper continuation of Star Trek is to start at the beginning of the 25th century with a new exploration ship travelling the unknown, while also dealing with the consequences and opportunities created in the previous (real)Trek show, in the same way TNG built on TOS and Voyager & DS9(at least at first) branched away from elements of TNG. What's the political situation in the Alpha/Beta quadrant region after the Dominion War, have relations between Fed, Klink, and Rommie permanently thawed and created a new power structure that others are plotting to overthrow, or have reactionaries risen up to create a new cold war scenario? Are Ferengi now joining Starfleet in appreciable numbers, if so how are their colleagues dealing with them, and how do traditional Ferengi regard them and they regard Ferengi tradition? Is Starfleet relieved to be getting back to their real mission, or are there Militarist elements trying to push permanent reforms of the institution to make it more aggressive, and how do the main cast of the new show get to participate in that in a way that reinforces the values of the IP? Perhaps instead of a military-exploratory divide, the issue of the day is where to devote resources in the wake of such a destructive war...(cont)
>>98088749>>98086434(cont)...;Admiral Janeway(the acceptable memberberry for the show) advocates for Project Full Circle, a small fleet of experimental quantum slipstream vessels that can retrace Voyager's path to the Delta Quadrant in a couple of years instead of decades at conventional speeds to recontact friendly groups in a more permanent way and to investigate what's happened to the Borg; meanwhile another faction is pushing to take advantage of Odo's return to the Great Link and the subsequent recent reorganisation of the Dominion into a voluntary union that no longer polices access through the wormhole to send loads of vessels to properly explore the Gamma Quadrant rather than retreading old ground. Stories about reckoning with the personal fallout of the Dominion War - family lost, lovers killed, colleagues maimed, there's plenty of ground for stories there that are sympathetic of the psychological damage warriors suffer while still affirming the show's core messages around nonviolence and diplomacy as first-resorts. etc etc etc.Just actual NEW shit that respects what came before without being mired in it.
>>98088749I actually think the 25th century is a pointless jump and the next Trek show should still be in the tail end of the 24th, Prodigy season 3 being set in 2385 was basically perfect. All the romulan stuff the movies and Picard added were dumb, but skipping past it completely rather than setting a show in the middle of that transition is a mistake.
>>98089382I disagree. I think a couple of decades of distance is necessary if any of the fallout from DS9 is going to be addressed in the kind of measured, intellectual way classic Trek tackled those kinds of issues. Too directly following the Dominion War leaves the wounds too fresh, leaves characters with little room for reaction beyond the raw emotion of it, and invites more nuTrek style ACTION ZAP ZOOM SPIES AND BOMBS PCHEW PCHEW LAZORS stories. It also stinks of serialisation, another curse Trek must escape if it's ever to be good again. A decent timejump also minimises the chances of too many "legacy" characters showing up as anything more than occasional cameos and ideally even then as few as possible.Trek needs a clean break. Not just with nuTrek, but with the TNG era as well. It needs to rediscover the themes, tone, and aesthetic *style* of its past and respect the foundations that past has established without just being a mindless plodding continuation. Each IRL generation of fans deserves their own in-setting generation of stories, not in the sense of pandering to Current Year social mores in the way nuTrek does, but in the sense of feeling like it's truly their own, bespoke, not just highly produced fanfiction for aging fans of the last outing.The "in-betweens" are for novels and comics and fan productions(on which point another way to earn goodwill would be to recsind their bullshit anti-Axanar fanfilm rules), *maybe* for occasional spinoff shows.
>>98087672>I always felt that Halo was a franchise that tried to take itself too seriously. That they thought their story had deeper meaning than it actually did when it really was a generic write yourself into a corner and deus ex machina yourself out of a situation plot that made me wonder if Stackpole had written it. Having recently played through the original Marathon trilogy (free on Steam) it's obvious that fart-huffing pseudointellectualism was always Bungie's core selling point. And judging by the final fate of Destiny audiences may have finally decided enough is enough.
>>98088749That's quite a large post you managed to generate from a misreading of a rather short one.
>>98081427That´s Rick & Morty.A lousy copy of Rick & Morty.
>>98082376I would rather watch "The Fight", an episode which has only Chakotay being whacked in the head repeatedly going for it, than ever see "The Battle" again
>>98091423The only thing it has in common with Rick and Morty is that they're both animated. The comparison has always been the stupidest, laziest criticism I have ever encountered.
>>98091423Explain how, please.>inb4 "it's obvious to anyone who isn't retarded!"
>>98091880>>98091797NTA, but how the fuck is it not?>head writer/executive producer literally worked on Rick and Morty before Lower Decks>animation and general aesthetic style, even though both are made by different studios, which means McMahan intentionally went for that style again>shared voice actors with Rick and Morty>constant meta humor and self-awareness>chaotic genius and neurotic sidekick dynamic with Mariner and Boimler>fast paced, rapid fire dialog that often has character bumbling over words and stuttering while interrupting each other in the same way Rick and Morty tries to make its dialog feel "natural">occasional bouts of extreme violence and body horror that constrast the simplistic, brightly colored aesthetic
>>98090299>I didn't completely and utterly fail to communicate my ideas, YOU failed to understand them by reading the words I wrote and ascribing commonly understood meanings to them instead of the special ones I use in my head!Go on then chuck, what did you actually mean that I misread?
>>98091638Challenge accepted. I dislike Voyager a lot but if I and the thread survive I'll post again within 48 hours.
>>98091962>obviously ANYONE who read that post would decide that it meant "star trek is about time travel!" And then they'd get really mad about it! I'm smart and reasonable!Amazing, you manage to be the embodiment of all the traits you've projected onto that poster, and simultaneously be utterly outraged about it. What a specimen!
>>98091932>Listing extremely superficial things like voice actors and character tropes, rather than the fact that their fundamental ethos are diametrically opposedRick and Morty is about how life and the universe is fundamentally meaningless and all you have is your family. Lower Decks is about how the universe is fundamentally better when everyone works together for the common good, and that greatness can come from anywhere. The idea that life does not matter is completely incompatible with Lower Decks
>>98092056Samefag, and concession accepted.
>>98093522Except that hasn't been Rick & Morty's ethos since they retooled the writer's room back in what was it, season 3? Certainly not since they used false accusations to drive out one of the creators. Ever since it's been one long humiliation ritual for Rick and his philosophy, and not just by them adding the "meaningless and uncaring universe(*except for your family)" caveat; Rick's friendship with the President, the Therapist, they've been bending the show's narrative arc towards "Rick is wrong about everything, we all need to Do Better" for years.Further tone, aesthetic, dialogue style etc are not purely superficial elements, especially when taken in aggregate.
>>98091638I was going to be a contrarian and defend the Battle but I cant even pretend. TNG Ferengi are arguably the worst showing of an alien in a show the franchise, only thing worse are SNW Vulcans>>98093719that's specifically the ethos of the show now, the ethos of the show before season 3 was that nothing mattered and the universe sucks, caring about your family as something to be proud of instead of seeing them as replaceable is relatively new to the show. But talking too much about Rick and Morty risks veering too off topic>Further tone, aesthetic, dialogue style etc are not purely superficial elements, especially when taken in aggregateTrue but there is a point where it doesnt matter, american dad and family guy are extremely different shows despite their superficial similarities
>>98093947>TNG Ferengi are arguably the worst showing of an alien in a show the franchiseCome now Major, you telling me you don't think this is peak alien design? :^)
>>98093719>false accusationsthe workplace ones he admitted to or the non-workplace ones that were withdrawn that he wasn't forced out over anyway
>>98081330Looks that up. The Stargazer is returned to Picard.Wait, doesn't this mean that the Stargazer is still somewhere in the Federation fleet? It was never seen or mentioned of again. It could still be flying around somewhere. Even the "give ships to the cadets to fly" habit could have the SG, and that doesn't even bring in the Old Ship Museum that LaForge has assembled.
Why there are so many episodes where Enterprise encounters some race or singular unit of God-like entity? It's like every other episode
>>98094479Its shown as a museum ship in Picard.
>>98091638>>98091990I did it, I survived. The Fight was significantly worse than The Battle.The Fight was angsty emo I'm losing my mind I don't wanna end up a looney like granpa melodrama>oh don't make me do it, grandad was a lunatic and we have genetic proof>>oh please do it for the sake of the crew, you'll do it for us won't you>it's too hard>>we'll be there for>I want to do it>>no, it's too dangerous, you're not allowedIt was poorly written. The whole "I'm a nutcase and I come from a family of nutcases" schtick was just bad. It didn't have enough material to fill out a whole episode, had more padding than kid safe boxing gloves. It was up and down all over the place with no reason for that except to drag out the show. The opening is one of the worst in media res openings I've seen on any ST show.The only bright spot in the whole episode was Janeway's "You think this could risk your sanity, but your sanity won't do you any good if we remain in Chaotic space. I need you to keep trying, Chakotay. Will you keep trying?" I liked Mulgrew's falsely sympathetic delivery particularly on the last line, as machiavellian as needed to keep the ship alive.Bringing in Boothby was a joke. Waste of the actor.Meantime, The Battle was a decidedly average aliens try to stitch up the hero in an overly complicated house of cards frame job. Ferengi hadn't been well developed, the "there's no profit in it so Ferengi wouldn't do it, there must be a secret motive / better look this gift horse in the mouth" angle was extremely shoved in your face. Not a great story but nowhere near as pathetic and insufferable as The Fight.I expected The FIght would be a weak episode but I thought it would at least be watchable. I've just looked up The Fight, one of the five worst Voyager episodes according to screenrant. Normally those guys just say stupid crap but I think they're accidentally right this time. Bottom five of an already bad show is saying something.
Damning with faint praise, I know, but The Battle's probably TNG's best use of the Ferengi. The interactions between Riker and the Ferengi First Officer come off pretty well.
>>98081231Oh yes. Somehow a sci-fi series I didn't even like for the median of television sprouted a television series just so it could dissapoint me in it the way all the television sci-fi series I used to follow did.
>>98093522>superficial things>writing, characters, dialog, voice acting, direction, etcOkay, you're retarded. Understood.
>>98096481that's strange, you're quoting my post but not the things I said, I hope this isnt something that happens commonly on 4chan dot com or we may have a problem here
>>98096915You called all of the comparisons superficial, meaning you either ignored most of the post, or you tried to claim that all of the elements that make up the show are superficial because Lower Decks is positive, but Rick and Morty is nihilistic, because you're retarded
Never really got into trek as it wasn't on the TV here when I was a kid, but I've been enjoying Darmok and Jalad at Podcast which is a TNG rewatch podcast. They've just finished season 1 and I'm annoyed they've spoiled later stuff, but to be honest I should have watched it by now anyway. Watching an episode a week then listening to the podcast on my commute is good fun. I've been recommended DS9 as well but I think I'll wait until the podcast is over.
>>98097096>I've been recommended DS9 as well but I think I'll wait until the podcast is over.Don't wait. DSN has a continuing story line after a while. If you think the later TNG stuff was spoiled it'll be a thousand times worse if they let slip stuff about how Sisko and Odo and Garak do some stuff that you wouldn't want to know beforehand so of course I didn't do it here.
>>98095822The funny thing is that The Fight isn't even the first episode with this exact premise, nor the third or even fifth in VOY. On average there is one episode per season where the setup is that Voyager is stuck in some void and only x person is able to communicate with y alien to get out, three of them heavily feature Chuckles and virtually all are like watching paint dry.The Battle while bad isn't boring and there is at least some character development going on. The idea is solid even if the execution is lackluster which pretty much sums up a lot of TNG S1 and S2 bad episodes. Some are so silly you'll end up laughing.In short the worst TNG episodes are going to be at least entertainingly bad while the worst VOY episodes are just bad full stop.t.anon who recently rewatched all of Voyager and is now rewatching TNG
>>98049746>Cthulhutechwait wait stop the fucking pressessomeone actually running CthulhuTech!?I have never heard of that happening and I have been here since ctech was a new system. Please. Tell me about it. I cannot look past the dice system.
>>98097532>recently rewatched all of Voyager Ouch.Bad TNG is lacklustre but can be entertaining while bad VOY is just bad is a good way of putting it. Thanks for expressing that so clearly and succinctly Anon.
>>98100367Voyager suffers from a far higher count of whiny, unlikable, annoying characters.>Chakotay constantly spewing some retarded "MUH GREAT SPIRIT" shit and doing Baby Daddy drama with a thoroughly pointless villain in Seska>Paris being an annoying prick who thinks he's cool>Harry Kim constantly being a whiny faggot>Torres constantly seething because "MUH KLINGON SIDE"And that leaves you with The Doctor, Tuvok, Neelix, and Janeway. Depending on the season, Seven or Kess.
>>98100574it's genuinely funny to me that the studio hired a "native american cultural consultant" who turned out to be a complete and utter fraud, making shit up. It's why Chakotay's MUH SPIRIT stuff seems so hackneyed and tropey, and it's also why the actor hated the show. He was part native, he'd say "hey show this spiritual shit you're writing is fake and gay" and they'd respond "shut up and obey the cultural consultant"
>>98101551>who turned out to be a complete and utter fraud*who had been exposed as a complete and utter fraud 10 years earlier
>>98101769that makes it even funnier
>>98101551>it's also why the actor hated the showJust one of the reasons.>Hey, we should do a boxing story because I like boxing. Just let me know two months in advance so I can get in shape and don't look like a weakling.>Sure thing!>By the way the boxing story is next week.
>>98100367A lot of S2 TNG episodes are bad but then contain scenes like this that make up for it. This episode was shaping up decent up to this point before it completely jumped the shark here>>98100574So much of VOY problems involves the writing mainly for being inconsistent, absolutely forgetting what happened previously on the show, or just being downright poor.Chipotle is actually a decent character when he isn't doing akoocheemoya shit which isn't often. When he plays into his combined Starfleet and Maquis side you see what a really competent first officer shine through but they tend to forget he has this experience the very next episode.Paris is more mature and serious in the earlier seasons. Although his character has his "fun" side when he is on the job he's 100% professional and about the only person with any real chemistry with other characters. Then from S5 onwards his character completely regresses and starts acting like a child.Ensign Harry Kim to use his full title they simply just didn't know what to do with him. He had a few alright episodes early on but they ran out of material for him quick. Legit if he hadn't won a sexiest man award he'd probably would have been killed off.Torres is another character who they didn't know what to do with. She has only 2 good episodes in all of VOY and both involve her confronting her Klingon heritage. When they pair her with Paris she does at least get some more better material to work with but she is mainly a side character for the majority of the show.
>>98102686Now onto the other characters cause in for a penny in for a pound.The Doctor becomes very overused in S7 to the point you may as well call the show Star Trek Picardo. Often a lot of the plots kind of repeat themselves as well in that they are the exact same story told different ways. Its not that he is a bad character or actor but you can have too much of a good thing that he almost becomes annoying as Wesley.Tuvok fucking carries the show. I think there was only one Tuvok episode I thought as unwatchable as even a bad Tuvok episode Tim Russ can put in a decent performance that you can still enjoy watching it. By S6 though they have ran out of material for Tuvok and he is not even used as a supporting character.Neelix is best summed up as a good actor playing a terrible character. There are a few scenes where Neelix is great but they consistently try to play him off as a comic relief when it is inappropriate. Once Kes is removed so you no longer have jealous Neelix and he does more Ambassador Neelix role stuff he is more interesting but they never properly expand on that.Janeway I always thought was completely bipolar but having just watched VOY start to finish she actually comes across as the only consistent character mainly by complete accident. Essentially you get to watch Janeways gradual descent into madness if you watch VOY start to finish where she goes from naïve model Starfleet Captain to "I've been burned far too often so I am taking no chances, if they fuck around then shoot first ask questions later" type character.Tits of Nine was a good addition to the show mainly because it seemed to refresh the writers room and give them more stories to explore. You might think that she has more episodes than she does but that is because she is heavily used as a supporting character in many episodes but the episodes are not in fact about her.Kes was a walking plot device and they really didn't have any clue what to do with her after a few seasons.
>>98102694Time for a bonus round, Ichep. This is a character they outright forget exists in VOY and causes massive plotholes in S7 episodes. I am not even kidding there are episodes where they outright say there is only one Borg drone aboard when both Ichep and Seven are standing there together. Then there are other episodes where Seven is off the ship and they even have a line saying where they really wish they had a Borg to assist them at that moment and you are left screaming at the screen "Go grab Ichep you fucking morons if its that important!" He has legit the same abilities as Seven but they don't even give a throwaway line of him being too young or something. Absolutely wasted character.
>>98102700And the less said about how PIC treated him the better.
>>98102694>Essentially you get to watch Janeways gradual descent into madnessI love that angle. She does go from useless SF Kumbaya officer to "Macrovirus? I'm one step away from ordering napalm from the replicator." It took her until Seven of Nine until she finally started acting like she was in charge.What Tuvok episode was bad? Is it Tuvix? I'm guessing Tuvix. They just tried to callback to the Two Kirks episode of TOS and failed at it.
>>98102694>Star Trek Picardo>Tits of NineWhile I very much appreciated your analysis of the characters and how they evolved, often into something horrid or banal, and would have done so regardless, little flourishes like those two are icing on the cake.
>>98103699Not canon anyway :^)>>98105820There were some times I really did like Insaneway with some of her decisions although questionable at least had some basis of logic with a character that had been pushed to the edge one too many times.Riddles is the Tuvok episode I found unwatchable. Tim Russ gives a good performance as usual but the scriptwriters half assed another story where yet again some crewman loses x of themself to alien y and they need to seek said alien out to restore them to their original selves. Nothing interesting is explored this episode that they haven't done better already and unless you are super desperate to watch a grown man act like he has the mind of a child then its just a pile of skippable cringe. I can stomach episodes like Tuvix as although they are are bad they tend to be memorable and worth talking about. Episodes like Riddles are so boring they have no features even worth discussing.>>98105970Glad to be of service although probably are fortunate that I am not going over the major glaring plot holes of VOY of which there are many to talk about as some outright break the entire plot of several key episodes.
>>98102694>>98105820I don't think it was intentional, but once you tally up all the time travel shit Janeway has been through and her increasing success rate with insane plans, it's almost like her character arc is becoming someone with too much foreknowledge and just barely enough sanity left to use it.
>>98106888This might be a solid theory considering in Relativity they let slip that Janeway is going to perform time travel yet again.
>>98049534At first I was annoyed because Academy had a couple episodes I really liked and then mostly terrible ones, but then I remembered that's most of Trek, that's Voyager, that's the first two seasons of TNG. So that's ok. It's tradition. It's why an episodic series works better. You sometimes get good writers.
>>98108557I with they'd actually had the balls to have the finale of Prodigy involve Janeway pulling some sort of time travel shenanigans that just shunts the entire nuTrek future into it's own bad end timeline and lets them do actual good shit going forward. Because let's be honest here she's the only one in Starfleet who is both crazy enough to try and competent enough to actually pull it off.
>>98112442I think if they'd scaled back considerably (no galaxy-scale threats caused by one obnoxious space pirate somehow) and didn't stick to using The Burn as a setting-defining event for all their future Trek shows, a less serious teen drama with like 20 or so moderately budgeted episodes would have landed a lot better. Still wouldn't be a show most people would like or watch, but they would have been forced to figure out more story and more plots that give their cast a chance to shine in different circumstances.
>>98112899>Insaneway 2 - The Search For More CoffeeShe already needs to time travel anyway thanks to a temporal paradox. Maybe she can also make Elite Force canon and we can get our own Space Hulk out of it.
Why no mirror Weyoun?
>>98115502Presumably because something different happened in the Gamma Quadrant in the mirror universe that didn't lead to the Shapeshifters genetically uplifting some alien monkeys.
>>98108557>in Relativity they let slip that Janeway is going to perform time travel yet again.between "Relativity" and "Endgame" (in which Janeway commits several deliberate temporal prime directive violations to get Voyager home earlier than it originally had returned), discounting uses of warp drive, transwarp drive, wormholes etc (which all violate universal constants and can be counted as forms of time travel, even when not used to travel to a point in time before the journey began), Voyager or its crew commit time travel in "Fury" (in which the timeline is altered by Kes at Janeway's request) and "Shattered" (in which it's implied information about Voyager's journey may have been passed to earlier points in Voyager's history even though the "timeline" doesn't change)
>>98115608I remember in one story the mirror Dominion were much closer to the Federation in terms of ideals. I can't remember if I am also mistaking it for another mirror universe but everyone was much more swole.
>>98113012It was an old idea originally intended for the TNG era that they did not actually ask around to see if anyone would be interested before trying.But I think for a number of people writing and working on it they saw it as a chance to show they'd be good for future projects, like some of the Lower Decks people. So hopefully that goes somewhere for them but hopefully they leave the burn era behind.
>>98113012The worst part of Academy is the final episode where Reno is guiding the kids through the operation of a ship is actually really good, and if they were on a Runabout on a mission to save a friend trapped on a moon before his life support runs out it'd be fine show, but instead they're on a giant ship off to save the entire Federation from a madman who's somehow surrounded it with Omega Mines.
>>98117723A teen-aimed Academy show had been talked about for ages, but was consistently shot down because Rick Berman refused to relent on the idea that Star Trek was about being out in space, not going back to Earth. The few Academy-based episodes we got were only allowed by him, according to some sources, because they specifically focused around a larger event or a serious dilemma. Wesley getting in trouble. Changelines allegedly invading Earth and taking over Starfleet. Even Prodigy only spent a short end-of-season montage and less than half an episode actually in the Academy.I get why a TV producer would think it's a great idea, but I am unfortunately on Berman's side when it comes to this topic. The Academy is background stuff. It's not made to be the focus because it's only worth looking at when something is going catastrophically wrong or when the story is moving away from the Academy, instead of focusing on it.Also, bloating out the cast with a bunch of STD characters just feels desperate and faggy. They weren't that well liked when the show wasn't cancelled. They aren't going be liked now that they've been recast as quirky teachers.
>>98117902Agreed. Trek really is about adults making adult decisions in adult situations in space.A show focused on cadets at the very end of their days at the academy and about to get their first assignments might work if it was showing how they matured over time by learning from all the mistakes they may make and the academy itself was no more than say half a season. The academy could never be the whole focus of the show however and trying to see how the young and inexperienced deal with getting put into situations for the first time that they may have trained for but actually require thinking beyond just copying what it says on the manual could have been covered in Star Trek Legacy if Kurtzman didn't have his temper tantrum about S3 Picard being better received than the abortions of shows he did. S3 Picard having setup a scenario where Starfleet was going to be full of very young Captains and very old Admirals as most of everyone inbetween got eliminated in the Borg spergout.
>>98119970>A show focused on cadets at the very end of their days at the academy and about to get their first assignments might work if it was showing how they matured over time by learning from all the mistakes they may make and the academy itself was no more than say half a season. I could see that working very well. A show that follows a POV character as he's finishing up his training and then being assigned to his first ship. Nearly every Starfleet officer we've ever met is years, sometimes even decades into their own career. We hear about and sometimes get glimpses of their early years, but we never get to follow someone from the Academy through various promotions, assignment changes, and so on. Closest we've got is... Harry Kim? And I don't think he really counts. He leaves the Academy, gets on Voyager, and stays an ensign forever, until later books and shows say he finally got promoted.
>>98120846Closest we got was Sito Jaxa. She was first seen as one of the nova squad with Wesley in The First Duty and later killed off in Lower Decks as in the TNG episode. I find that a bit of a shame as I think there was definitely potential for a character like that who we saw fucked up at the academy but kept at it and grew as a person to become a competent officer.I think if you were to fully commit to the cadet idea I think best to have a few POV characters showing each different fields and interests rather than just one.
Should I bother after watching TOS?
>>98121780Yes
>>98121780Going straight from TOS to TNG will feel very familiar. A lot of TNG scripts were retooled TOS scripts and a lot of the early vibes are still in that "wagon train to the stars" style.
Dax keeps breaking into my /trek/ threads and moving them one board to the right, one board to the left. Not a single general where it's supposed to be. It's chaos! You humanoids have no sense of order.
>>98121031I can appreciate that they were initially really intent on carrying forward the Nova Squad plotline, but Sito's short-lived arc could have been given to literally any random ensign and still had the same impact. Tom Paris being Nick Locarno and having to re-earn everyone's trust as the hotshot who flunked out of the academy for getting a student killed probably would have made his character work a bit better, though.
>>98122296/trek/ belongs on /tg/ It is the way of things!>>98122430It still amuses me they avoided Tom Paris being Nick Locarno simply because they didn't want to pay the writer. TNG lays the seeds of several good characters which would be interesting to see follow up to but they never really explore them further which I suppose can be seen as a blessing or a curse depending on point of view.
>>98124548>It still amuses me they avoided Tom Paris being Nick Locarno simply because they didn't want to pay the writer.Unsubstantiated rumour spread by the actor himself and he even added that others didn't believe this. When you have facts that show this is true, do tell, in the meantime, it's rumour and hearsay.
>>98124619There is so much unsubstantiated bullshittery around some of it edged with some vague sense of truth that it is hard to tell what is and isn't correct. I decided to look into this a bit more detail and the best "evidence" I could find was some unreferenced quote on imdb saying that they didn't want to use Locarno due to potential legal issues.What I did find which seems to be backed with some sources is that the reason for not using Locarno was creative differences, mainly that some thought his character was irredeemable and preferred to make a new character but they really liked the actor and the concept. Apparently Locarno was on the production notes for Voyager early in development as they did consider his character but I can find no reason referenced for dropping him as being due to have to pay licensing.
>>98124619>Unsubstantiated rumour spread by the actor himself and he even added that others didn't believe this.According to this guy, who is generally pretty knowledgeable about Trek, Jeri Taylor, who wrote up most of the characters and initial episodes, believed Locarno was too irredeemable. Others say that the character was Locarno almost right up until filming and then changed for reasons unknown or unrecorded. Other people insist it was actually a rights issue so they wouldn't have to pay the First Duty writer. Interviews say he was going to be Locarno, but there is no straight answer or concrete explanation recorded anywhere.https://youtu.be/DRh2arSi-WE&t=1616
Don't suppose any anons know of good simple rules to play tongo that are easy to follow? Was thinking about playing something fun and odd with a few friends and felt this would fit the bill.
>>98124548/stg/ belongs on /tg//trek/ belongs on /tv/>>98125293given that they've since reused both Paris and Locarno on different shows I doubt it was ever a rights issue; as far as character creation goes, "The First Duty" was credited to Naren Shankar and Ronald D. Moore, both of whom were still on staff at Paramount in various capacities at the time and would continue to be for many years after Voyager's first season; it's unlikely that script doctor Peter Allan Fields or staff writers Braga and Echevarria, who are also credited in those capacities, were holding out for more money for appearances by a series main cast member, especially as McNeill was cast anywaythe most likely answer is that Locarno, who was utterly unrepentant to the point of delusionally suggesting to Wesley that they commit even more bullshit together, was simply not Starfleet material and wouldn't be seen that way either in-universe or by long-time fans, but the concept of a fallen officer redeeming himself was seen as appealing and McNeill's performance was preferred, since he already knew how to do it and, absent obsessive TNG fans, audiences wouldn't hold it against McNeill that he'd already played a separate similar character, just as they'd already accepted Marc Alaimo, William Campbell, Denise Crosby, Robin Curtis and someone named "Majel Barrett" among many others doing the same>>98125630it looks like some variant of poker that explicity relies on card-counting and deceit; players seem to have a hand of their own, add hands to the wheel and pass the wheel-hands around while raising the stakes each time; the D4s are either alien tokens or introduce a separate element of randomness (either in the sense of determining how much the pot must increase by, or how many turns the wheel must make, or potentially both if the dice have different markings)it's complicated by what appear to be both square and round decks of cards, and I don't think was ever meant to have real rules
>>98124903>some thought his character was irredeemable and preferred to make a new characterI found that repeatedly too, no first source, lots of parrots repeating it. Some people (fan comments, writers on blogs and pop culture websites) then said but Paris did the same things as Locarno so there was no difference, which they think which supports the no royalty payment claim, and others said that Paris didn't drag others into it and he confessed so he was significantly different to Locarno.>Apparently Locarno was on the production notes for Voyager early in development >>98125293>Others say that the character was Locarno almost right up until filmingI found one sentence saying that the change to Paris was made in the voyager bible nearly at the beginning of the show creation process.>pay licensingThe one person I found who added anything substantial to that claim cast doubt upon it, something about the Writers Guild of America.Expanding upon his point, under standard WGA terms the writer is paid as a work for hire. As a work for hire the script, including characters and events in it, becomes the property of the production company. If the same production company wants to reuse that character they can do so without any obligation to the writer. If the writer had special terms negotiated, which is possible for reasons like he had a great deal of success writing and made lots of money for shows or he's a show producers, then he might have rights to a character written in to his contract.The First Duty was co-written by Ronald Moore and produced late in season 5, after he'd become a TNG co-producer for season 5 I think, but you'd have to see his contract and that of the co-writers to see if they had any character reuse rights written in. It doesn't seem all that likely though that writers sought to retain rights to what was intended as a one off character any more than any other one off character in any of the hundreds of other ST episodes produced.
>>98112899Season 2 went into the timeline-shenanigans so fast and hard that they had me actually thinking this was a possibility. Prodigy season 1 has the most consistently good writing of any trek show.
>>98128442Prodigy is super underrated, even season 2 is leagues better then the other kirksman trash.
>>98128493>Prodigy is super underratedConsidering how highly it's rated by critics and viewers I don't think that is possible. It took years of cajoling to get me to sully myself by watching Discovery. I sat through a lot of that but it just didn't get any better. Despite the bad taste of Discovery, Prodigy had been well rated so I actually tried watching an episode hoping it might be tolerable. It was not. It's criminally over rated.
>>98127624>then said but Paris did the same things as Locarno so there was no differencenot exactly; Locarno pressured his teammates into performing a maneuver they knew to be banned for good reason, into covering up the death of a friend and fellow cadet, and when caught, refused to accept responsibility, blaming Starfleet for refusing to allow them to practise said banned maneuver; Wesley, who by his own testimony to the board of inquiry had also pressured his teammate into performing the maneuver which resulted in the teammate's death, admitted to his error and was, ultimately, permitted to continue as a cadet; Locarno, faced with the same choice in the same moment, refused to accept culpability>WESLEY: Yesterday I testified that the crash occurred following a Yeager loop. That is not entirely true. We performed a loop, and afterwards broke formation and attempted a Kolvoord Starburst. We knew it was prohibited. We knew it was dangerous, but we wanted to do something spectacular for the commencement demonstration. We pushed Josh into it and he wasn't ready. We thought we could do it. We thought we could do anything. We were wrong, and Josh died. Josh didn't let us down, sir. It wasn't his fault.>BRAND: Mister Locarno, you are the leader of Nova Squadron. Do you have anything to say? Mister Locarno?>LOCARNO: No, sir. throughout the episode Locarno is unrepentantly manipulative and egotistical; he is not much like Tom Paris in that respect either, who even in his earliest appearances is not only repentant for his previous errors (which resulted in three deaths, and which he alone was responsible for covering up, but has subsequently admitted to) but very rarely more manipulative than is necessary to give good advice to Harry or other crewmates; Locarno's admission of guilt comes only when there's both evidence and direct witness testimony against him and - presumably - admitting guilt carries a lesser punishment for him too
>>98129250>Locarno, faced with the same choice in the same moment, refused to accept culpabilityHaving recently finished rewatching all of season 5, the thing that stood out to me about Locarno is that he wanted to go on and pursue the rest of his career without facing any consequences. He wanted to literally get away with murder just because no one could actually prove that he did it. Even outside of Star Trek, a person like that is fucking vile and psychotic.They tried to make it a moral thing in the end by having Locarno sacrifice his starfleet career to protect everyone else, because he supposedly cared so much about his team, but that was after he had no choice. It was his idea. He was the one who always deserved to be expelled over it. What was he expecting to do otherwise? Go on and become a captain while continuing to blame everyone but his own decisions and orders? The 'both sides' angle on the episode doesn't work when Starfleet is explicitly meant to be an ethical, philosophically virtuous organization. What does a guy who whines and screams and deflects and blames others for wanting to face the consequences of his actions have to offer?It always bothered me that they didn't hammer that point. Not just that the truth is important, but that Locarno, and by extension the rest of the Nova Squad cadets, were proving themselves to be a bunch of cunts. There are other starfleet characters in TNG alone who are shown to betray starfleet in a similar way and they are treated as reprehensible failures. DS9 dedicates quite a lot of time to the Maquis and their failures to uphold Starfleet's virtues (even though its partially Starfleet's fault). Locarno was a piece of shit and they should have treated him like it, with the small glimmer of reformation being that he was willing to finally take all the blame for his idea, to spare his team.
>>98131024Locarno's crimes, great as they are, aren't really any different to Riker's ("The Pegasus"); he did something he knew was banned, understood why it was banned, thought he'd get away with it - this is all up to the point before the mutiny - and when he didn't get away with "grabbed a phaser and defended my captain"; it's more or less immaterial whether or not he set that phaser to stun (he doesn't say, and whatever investigation of the hulk took place post-episode doesn't mention how the crew died in any detail). He goes on to become an Admiral! And he's genuinely likeable and it's a teaching moment for him - albeit a very grim one in which hundreds of people died for him to learn something - which changes his outlook enough that, by the time his crime is formally discovered, he's more the Wesley than the Locarno, and Pressman fills the Locarno role. But like a lot of things - Sisko losing the first Defiant and various Runabouts, pretty much everything Kirk ever did - it's not taken to court martial or even inquiry, or if it is, this is simple formality with the outcome as well-predicted as if it were a Cardassian courtroom and Our Hero exonerated without further consideration. Like the endless parade of rogue admirals, Riker - and many other on-screen major characters - set the example for Locarno to follow, that arrogance leads and apology follows. It's a sort of failing of Roddenberry's vision of enlightenment - but then again, Tom Paris actually goes to prison.Sure sets the officer test Riker oversees in "Thine Own Self" in a different light though. Imagine Lon Suder in command of a Starfleet vessel. Every mission, new crew, high casualties, and nobody cares because he was doing his duty and so were they as he marched them into plasma vents "to save the ship" and he's very sorry about their deaths.
>>98132626I think the key difference is the when a starfleet officer fucks up in the line of duty, there's a large number of variables at play. Upholding the chain of command or sacrificing a ship in a dire moment is fundamentally not the same as a jackass student doing something that serves no purpose, would benefit no one, and in the end, got a fellow cadet killed. That alone is already a pretty severe fuck up that happened almost entirely because of one guy's out of control ego about himself and his little clique. The fact that he proceeded to try and cover it up while browbeating the people whom he made accessory to his irresponsible bullshit into staying silent (when responsibility and duty are the things they are being trained in, no less) almost got caught, and still tried to weasel out of it because of "MUH TEAM" just shows that he's thoroughly a piece of shit. Not someone put in a tough situation. Not someone who made a mistake or made the wrong choice in the heat of the moment. He created the conditions that got someone killed because of a completely superfluous stunt.
>>98101551>>98101769This might surprise you guys, but there was a time where you couldn't easily look up people on the internet.
>>98133138Oh, I know. I remember the first time I was ever allowed to go online. My father sat me on his knee and went into what he called "newsgroups" to ask for advice on solving some dungeon in Zelda aLttP. By a technicality I got online pre-eternal september, just the once. I'm not pulling rank to say "stfu anon I'm more oldfag than thou", I'm just saying I remember growing up with that old internet, where there wasn't a wiki for everything and a dozen discord servers devoted to tracking and studying random minor individuals.I remember the era when only the most popular (with the nerd niche) actors and characters got fan shrines. Hell I know one guy whose site is still up, that was started in '99, last got an update of any sort in 2013, and has such pages as a buffy e-shrine with a broken visitor counter for 2007 and buttons proudly proclaiming it's XHTML 1.0 compliant.So yes. I know that not everything was digitally vivisected while still active, pinned to a corkboard, photographed and documented ready to be evidence in a "how it all went wrong" youtube video essay six months after it's cancelled. I do have to stop and remind myself that the past wasn't like the present, I am getting old, but I remember.
>>98132626The Pegasus incident if I recall Riker wasn't fully aware of what was going on so he did what he thought was right. He even admits that if he knew what he did now he'd have pointed the phaser at his Captain. Fuck it I'll have to rewatch that episode.>>98133138Yeah but he was known as a fraud well before then?
>>98135023>Yeah but he was known as a fraud well before then?You don't get it. This shit wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue in Tinseltown, it's buried in microfiche at a library in Washington on the other side of the continent.Like maybe if they hired someone to do a thorough background check on him maybe it would have turned up, but that shit's an unnecessarily expensive for hiring a writing consultant and frankly, they're out of touch upper-middle class white people in the 90s; him feeding them new age bullshit worked because it fed into their expectations.
>>98121780TNG is just the hippy dippy version of TOS.
>>98135023Riker said he was seven months out of the Academy, but that was the same conversation he was withholding information from Picard in, using Pressman's rank and orders to do so. The episode ends with the promise of an inquiry and court martial but neither of those things is ever televised or discussed.We could be generous and say Riker isn't telling any direct lies to Picard, only lies of omission; or we could be cynical and say until Riker's face turn in the last moments of the episode, when he reveals Pressman has a cloaking device from the Pegasus, he's determined to lie to protect himself and Pressman and the other conspirators. From Riker's POV this is the more reasonable position - he's already lied to protect his entire career for 12 years. He lied to an inquiry even though he was accused of withholding evidence. And he lied to Picard - whether by omission or otherwise - about the Pegasus. This is the same way Wesley behaved in "The First Duty" but for 12 years and hundreds of officers lied to. Whether Riker is as directly culpable for the cause as Wesley isn't knowable from the script - Wes claimed he pressured his teammates into the stunt, whereas Riker only states he was a junior bridge officer. He may or may not have known in advance about the cloak. But he certainly shot some people by his own account, and lied about his actions for years even after he knew the facts and knew he was in the wrong.
>>98135053They should have hired a Consultant Consultant
>>98142986But then who would consult the consultant consultant?
>>98142986>>98144042It feels ironic that TNG has a few episodes dealing with fraud consultants.
Back in the day there was a book on how to build TNG style sets and set pieces. Does anyone remember the book? What was the name of it?
>>98145513On Board the USS Enterprise?
>>98146677>On Board the USS EnterpriseNo, though this is interesting.The book I'm referencing is actually a how-to construction manual for building Star Trek TNG sets.
>>98147005Was it the sketch book by any chance? I think that had a breakdown on how the sets were made for the movies?
>>98147178It was set building instructions. Literally a step-by-step instructions for building consoles, doors, and other set parts. There was a guy decades ago that turned his apartment into a transporter room with it that made the news decades ago. Specifically, it was TNG sets.
>>98147260You've got me interested I'm going to have a search myself. Might have to look up some old book stores at the weekend.
>>98147303The only other things I can remember about the book is that first, it was printed in the 90s and second, it was a straight up guide for building sets without any lore fluff.
>>98147350There is a Star Trek Picard book coming out about how they rebuilt the TNG sets coming out soon but it looks rather pricy.
>>98060481Cardassian LARPing as B*joran
>>98147364For what purpose?
>>98147406Non of them know that the other players are actually Cardassian and all of the started a terrorist cell during the occupation to catch Bajoran terrorist.
>>98147455
>>98147455Sounds like that shitpost about Cops, Feds, ATF, DEA etc all going undercover as part of a sting operation and only catching each other.
>>981470051701-D Blueprints, Rick Sternbach, 1996a 16 page booklet with 13 blueprints I assume are pull-out sheets
>>98147473Which is in turn, just a story written by GK Chesterton in 1908.
>>98147613I had a look at that, doesn't seem to be what anon is asking for? If it is a physical how to manual on building a set I wonder if it is 100% all Trek related but more TNG sets were used as an example?
>>98149945then if it existed I doubt anon was looking at something officialthere have been copies of set plans released over the years - not full blueprints or wiring diagrams that i've seen, but certainly their size and layout within the studios at Paramount is available for TOS through I think ENT for the standing sets for each show; since the studios have a definite size (which you can confirm from the Paramount website, though it's also written on the layout sheets) you can confirm the sizes of these sets, and the basic layout, relatively simply; some sheets are more detailed than othersthose aren't construction blueprints but given their dimensions a relatively competent and observant individual could certainly recreate a set per >>98147260, particularly with reference to the Sternbach book and other reference works; there's a Michael and Denise Okuda book, On Board the USS Enterprise, which claims to include floor plans (and so would function much as the existing materials available online) and comes with a 3D tour (amusingly on CD-ROM in 2013) which, being presumably created from official plans and certainly overseen by people with extensive first-hand knowledge of those sets, would also allow you to construct show-accurate setsthere doesn't seem to be anything on Memory Beta about a blueprints book for the E-D other than those two works
>>98149945>>98151344I am that Anon in Question.First, it was specifically ST:TNG.Second, it's been about 3 decades since I've seen the book so some memories may be hazy and I can't be sure if it was official or not.Third, it was a book for craftsmen and set builders, not a "blueprints" book. There was things like how to make the touch sensitive controls, display panels, doors, etc.I wish I could remember more...
>>98145513I asked the computer and it said you're probably thinking of "The Star Trek: The Next Generation Stage Construction Guide". I can't really find anything about it online, so it might be an AI hallucination. Regardless, it said it was an incredibly rare zine.It suggested this as an alternative:http://archive.frogland.co.uk/Reverse%20Engineered%20Set%20Blueprints/Galaxy%20Project/index.html
>>98155122I am interested in continuing this search as I think it would be neat to get set construction guides. Nice share anon.
>>98155122At this point I'm wondering if I'm suffering a Mandela event. I remember this being a single 8 1/2x11 200+ page book available in book stores and on Amazon back before it became the replacement for the Sears catalog.
>>98158021Could also have slipped through universes again?
>>98158033Fuck me, I hope I can go back. This reality sucks right now.
>>98155122>http://archive.frogland.co.uk/Reverse%20Engineered%20Set%20Blueprints/Galaxy%20Project/index.htmlThis is some cool shit right here. It's very much the kind of thing I want.
So in a tabletop question for a change, is Star Trek Away Missions any good assuming someone actually has played it?
>>98158047mmmm no we can only go up and down and kind of side to side but if it rocks too much we'll fall out>>98158021do you recall the cover image? try browsing Memory Beta for a list of titles from the era and looking up their covers200 pages sounds excessive for a "rare zine" unless it was collected, plus I don't think that would have been in stores and on Amazon (but if you did see it on Amazon, that couldn't be pre-1994 at least)but also 200 pages sounds quite large to become forgotten media, however niche the audience would be, if it was published officially, particularly for a fandom that's all over the blueprints stuff; Ex Astris Scientia doesn't seem to refer back to anything like that, for example, when discussing the size or design of sets in-depthI wonder if perhaps you saw an internal document that made its way out after the show ended?
>>98158021You can check Cygnus.https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/index.php
>>98159195I am running on the theory that anon saw something unofficial but supremely detailed. Might even made by someone like pic related.
>>98160955As I remember it, it was very detailed. It had instructions for how to make the backlighting for bridge displays, touch sensitive transporter slider controls, door slider mechanisms, etc. It had materials lists and layout instructions. I had both color photos and construction drawings. I saw it in the bookstore and on Amazon and didn't get a chance to get it then. Now I regret that.Or maybe I hallucinated it and it's sitting on the shelf next to Shazam staring Sinbad.
>>98162923https://fanlore.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek_FanzinesAlternatively, you can see if someone uploaded it on the old internet. I'll check my copy of the incredible internet guide for trekkers, but even if I find it, that doesn't mean it's still up.OTOH, Trekkies tend to have money and be autists about these sorts of things.
I hope the Star Trek MTG set has some reference to Janeway making temporary copies of herself. Digital clown satan: “I’m scared”.Janeway(copy): “I knooowww.”
>>98049534Fuckoff shill. Take your HateTrek, AntiTrek bullshit the fuck off.
>>98049712My star trek adventures crew have found an especially hyperactive section of the Shackleton expanse that has horrifically powerful gravimetric waves, by accident.A shuttle accidentally ran into a 'wave' at just the right angle to 'surf' it... and went transwarp, warp factor a trillionty for a poofteenth of a second, before they 'fell off' the 'wavecrest'.So now they're petitioning starfleet to build a space station next to it, because they can map, measure and predict the 'waves'.. and riding them correctly flings you up to tens of thousands of lightyears in a few seconds. Like a jump drive.So they're trying to get the federation to build deep space ... bus station / train station so the klningons and federation can park a bunch of ships there, wait for the right 'wave, and fling themselves all accross the expanse and beyond. BOOM now you're back in the delta quadrant. POOF you're off to the gamma quadrant. It's one way... but still.
>>98050028Star trek adventures. Tos era. And generate a massive bunch of sectors to explore with the app.
>>98050028https://sta.bcholmes.org/
>>98051413GREAT! LOST ERA IS AWESOME. Excelsiors and Mirandas!
>>98053049Shitcuntery era is so bad. As it all of its 'content'. Ugh. I hate the AntiTrek takeover only STO. Everything sto now is fucking shittrek.
>>98049534I just don't like the 31st/32nd century as a setting. I haven't seen the show but the tech sounds too advanced for interesting storytelling. And it makes it hard to tell stories in the earlier (and imo more interesting) eras when you know how everything is going to turn out.>where ent was made to appeal to the gooner npc masses, academy is made to appeal to nerdsTOS was made for both, and that's where the franchise should return.
>>98171657>it makes it hard to tell stories in the earlier (and imo more interesting) eras when you know how everything is going to turn outI bet there's like a hundred printed letters in old Starlogs saying this exact thing about TNGhey guys, imagine if TNG stayed that way for every season, just full Gene on his bullshit
>>98171984TNG didn't paint a bleak depressing future though Kurtzman so people had a reason to be invested on how the journey was made from TOS to TNG!
>>98172909>we've just made contact with a pre-warp civilization nobody ever heard of before today>beam down the entire crew>civilian crewmember due to be executed laterthis is an actual plot from TNG S1, I'm saying what if it had been seven seasons and four movies of that shit
>>98172909Rape planet. The federation just allowed a colony world to become a dystopian hellhole.. because reasons?
>>98171657The future tech is just retarded. The ships are weaker and more useless than NX 01 ffs. All their warp cores power must go to keeping the SIF fields holding the detached parts of everything together. Fucking retarded.'Oh my ship is so future the ship is pre exploded into twenty parts!'
>>98171657The worst thing about Kuntmann's AntiTrek is that everyone is a selfish, narcissistic loser fuckface. Everyone is a shitheel.The WHOLE point of trek is that the eugenics wars, ww3 etc, finally scared humanity 'straight' and they became better for it. Trek is supposed to be ASPIRATIONAL. People watched Kirk and WISHED they could be as ethical and moral as he. As logical and rational as Spock, as caring as McCoy.People watched tng and wished they could defuse a potentially violent situation with just words like picard. Could be as decisive as riker. People wished they could be engineering polymaths like Geordie to fix their disability.No one sane watched Mikey Spock and thought 'gee I wish I could stage a fucking mutiny' or watched Mocky Spock and thought 'gee I wish I could run around the ship with a batleth hacking new ensigns up, and then blame THEM for it, and not be court-martial and then shot for it'No one watched old trek and thought 'gee I wish I can hang around in ten forward eating and crying and getting shitfaced instead of doing my god damn job'
>>98174477>No one watched old trek and thought 'gee I wish I can hang around in ten forward eating and crying and getting shitfaced instead of doing my god damn job'Don't shit on a dream just because you don't understand it!
>>98174477The new Kurtzmann trek Colony Sim game is decent though. So it was worth it.
>>98174477>The WHOLE point of trek is that the eugenics wars, ww3 etc, finally scared humanity 'straight' and they became better for it. Trek is supposed to be ASPIRATIONAL. People watched Kirk and WISHED they could be as ethical and moral as he. As logical and rational as Spock, as caring as McCoy.Except of course the villain of the week who defies all of human morality and yet is inexplicably a Starfleet admiral.
>>98174477What about the rape rangs?
>>98174526Yeah, Picard's claims that humanity is somehow a new species versus what came before in the post-atomic horror is proven to be incorrect over the course of his own show and then DS9, but ultimately in a good "you have the potential to be like Kirk, Spock, and McCoy *now*" kind of way, even if the modern discourse makes that tougher to believe than when that message was made in the late 90s.
>>98174925I mean they're Starfleet officers. They come from privileged backgrounds, serving on the Federation flagship because they're the elite of the elite. If anyone is drinking the kool-aid, it's them.Earth is very much a "paradise", but there's got to be a reason that billions of humans flee to the stars to live in shitty little villages.
>>98174964they WANT to. they want to go build a whole new world all for themselves.
>>98174964That's the flipside of being a Starfleet officer in a frontline exploration mission; they constantly get their hands dirty on the backwater of the galaxy partially so they don't become blinded by their own prosperity.
Star Trek always had nods to the underbelly of it's setting going all the way back to TOS. Mudd's Women, The Trouble with Tribbles, and The Menagerie all show the darker side of the federation in glimpses. TNG and DS9 added a lot with things like Section 34 and the Marquis. I think that there's real potential for cyberpunk-esque adventures in the Star Trek setting. Main characters could simply be those that for one reason or another have fallen through the cracks and find that what is a utopia for others is a dystopia for them. The Federation doesn't need to be cast in a bad light, just shown to be unable to take care of everyone.
>>98175151the federation isn't about taking care of everyone. dangerous freedom, not 'safe' slavery, commie. and starfleet is constantly zooming from colony to colony, bringing medecine for sudden plague one new planet #56464 settled last tuesday. and so on.the federation is also barely a government, acting only in the best tradation of what the us republic is supposed to be. tiny and only concerned with external threats. it mediates disputes but cannot and will not 'rule' member states. states rights and all that.star trek's federation is a classic liberal post scarcity utopia. not a commie despotism.
>>98174463>>98174891What they don't tell you is that it was the women forming the rape gangs hunting down men and raping them. Tar'sha Yar got bored of it all and decided to leave.
>>98174964some people just get bored of having everything handed to them and want to get their hands dirtyalso, if you want to build your million square foot dream home on a million hectare plot of land, you kind of have to move off Earth since there isn't enough space for everyone to have that kind of space most of the established colony worlds in trek actually seem like pretty nice places to live, the exceptions tend to be run by ideological fringe groups (usually idiots, wannabe warlords, and/or ultraconservative luddites) or separatist groups (who don't have access to the near unlimited resources that the Federation and/or United Earth can make available to them) or both
>>98174964Some people simply get the desire to go out and explore the unknown, and leave their own mark on it. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Earth.
RO RO FIGHT THE POWAH
>>98174964>but there's got to be a reason that billions of humans flee to the stars to live in shitty little villages.I get the feeling this sort of plot beat is meant to be a sign that humanity has philosophically evolved, but they still contain the adventurous and daring spirit that drives them to go out, explore, settle new planets, and turn soil and stone into new civilizations again. Kind of like how Sisko and O'Brien are shown to still enjoy cooking things by hands with real, non-replicated ingredients, or how real alcohol is still in demand even though sythehol has none of the downsides. More loosely, how people still practice music and perform in plays, even though they could have a holodeck perfectly recreate a flawless performance every time.In practice, nearly every space colonial has been shown to be quite egotistical and deluded or just outright stupid. Like the people on the planet that was going to be destroyed, and their leader kept going>OUR ANCESTORS BUILT THIS PLACE WE'RE GONNA STAY AND FIGHTAnd then it takes until the end of the episode for Data to mention that the aliens can just erase the city from orbit and never once have to even look them in the eye.Or the eugenics planet which thought it was superior to everyone, but was centuries behind the rest of humanity. Or the luddite planet where a cult leader abused and killed numerous people in the name of an ideology that demonstrably doesn't work and relies on torture and abuse to stay in control. or... Everything about the Maquis, who would risk throwing the entire sector into all out war because they were angry that someone told them to move their colonist LARP to a different planet.
>>98176926To be fair to the Marquis at least, the Federation gave them the ultimately empty promise of Starfleet protection. It didn't help that its next actions could be interpreted as active collaboration with the despotic, authoritarian power it promised to defend them against.
>>98176965I won't deny that Starfleet fucked up with handling the entire thing, but the fact that the Maquis then decided to repeatedly try and wage war and actively threaten DS9 and Bajoran territories just so they could protect some farms and settlements on a handful of planets is ridiculously over the line and only led to more of their own people getting killed in pointless conflicts.
>>98176993You'd think they would have attempted to make a more constructive relationship with Bajor given that they were essentially suffering from the same Cardie issue.
>>98177002the same treaty that liberated Bajor forced the Maquis colonists into Cardassian controlled spacenobody hates freedom like freedom fighters
>>98174891Rape rangs?!
>>98172909"Justice" literally has the Federation flagship's command staff debating whether one of the children aboard their ship should be executed for walking on grass on a planet that, per the Prime Directive, they shouldn't even have had an away team on, let alone the entire crewseven seasons four movies of that, I guarantee you'd be begging for Kurtzman long before DS9 became the first crew to have a literal factual leprechaun join the crew
>>98176926Well, to be fair, the Enterprise only visits the bad colonies. There's probably a bunch of good ones, like Alpha Centauri and the Moon. In fact I posted that stupid colony simply because I subscribe to Jeri Taylor's intention for it to be Chakotay's home, and I explain all his new age bullshit as the entire colony being a bunch of neo-pagan fundamentalists trying to pretend they're "living like their ancestors."In any case I think people miss the entire point of Star Trek. We as a whole may be better, but we're not perfect. If we were there would be drama, and no higher calling to which we should strive towards.I think Kurtzman and his people got that wrong for a number of reasons. I think they were faithful to the ideas in Discovery, but the crew comes off as naive and childish at every turn. Only Saru really has any gravitas. In Picard the cynicism and misery is never really proven wrong. There really IS a Romulan conspiracy and AI really is trying to kill everyone. I remember hoping towards the end of S1 that they'd make first contact with the machines and that they would be the planet that found V'Ger. That Picard would successfully bridge the gap between us and them as a former cyborg and the constant Data dreams. That humanity would reevaluate it's racism towards AI. Nope, giant battle.It's all so tiresome.
>>98178205No. Kuntzmaan hates trek.Star trek humanity, et al. Of the federation ARE better people. They've finally risen past their darker, ancient natures.
>>98177710To be fair, I too would look for excuses to get rid of Wesley.
>>98178331Children and families and civilians on starship that are giant ass cruise liners in space was always retarded.Worst part of TNG.Hell, even the writers were forced to admit is was fucktarded when the Borg showed up.
>>98178751Abandoning the premise the entire show was designed around by episode 2 was the retarded part.
>>98178760Yeah. Tng was much more focused on the enterprise D being a giant show peice constantly showing the flag, and talking to people instead of going boldly where no MAN had gone before, out into the unknown.The entire D because spent its 'ongoing mission' dipping its toe into the unknown on the border, then coming back for some reason. Over and over again.It's like going to the beach a thousand times, and only ever dipping your toes in, then calling yourself an 'ocean swimmer'.
>>98176926>real alcohol is still in demand even though sythehol has none of the downsides You say none of the downsides, but no mention that it has all of the upsides. Those upsides might include that it's natural, it's authentic, it's not perfect machine synthesis, it's not perfect-machine-replication-with-imperfections-within-observed-range-of-those-imperfections. You might say no hangover is an upside, but the upsides for some might include that someone wants a hangover or at least the risk of a hangover, that it could cause blackouts and memory problems as in drinking to forget. If synthehol could give the exact range of effects of alcohol then it wouldn't be synthehol, it would be alcohol. The number one downside of synthehol is that it is not ordinary alcohol, with all the little sub-reason downsides that entails for any particular consumer.
star trek
>>98121780Yes it's funny
>>98178824why would the flagship ever be doing exploration outside the federation's borders
>>98179256If it has the best technology and equipment, so it's more capable of extended exploration missions
>>98179256Because Starfleet likes to pretend it's an organization that's 50% devoted to exploration, 40% to delivering the cure for super-aids to plague planets, and 10% unfortunately forced to take up arms against those pesky Romulan aggressors.
>>98179256It's only a "flagship" in the sense of symbolically waving the Federation's flag by showing its presence. It can be compared to the expedition of the Great White Fleet under Teddy Roosevelt: make friendly visits to planets outside the Federation's borders while demonstrating Federation technology and values and deterring actions from potentially hostile planets.
>>98179256They've had technological superiority for so long they don't even group ships together. They're arrogant and entitled so they're just dunking on everyone because the can. Its why the borg and the dominion were a big deal.
>>98179269>>98179298>>98179308not the point of a flagship>>98179303if we're going to be making technical and semantic arguments then why is it a flagship before Picard becomes an admiral
>>98179371>not the point of a flagship Doesn't matter if its the point if you can even state what that is. Its what they used it for over time. A lot of that can be chalked up to variety of writers over actual decades of material having minimal and different ideas of how navy's work, the future navy in space being different than whatever your ideas are, budget limitations for special effects, in universe changes in doctrine, mission profiles and opponents. So what do you think the flagship is supposed to do?
>>98179371>if we're going to be making technical and semantic arguments then why is it a flagship before Picard becomes an admiralThis question is answered in the post you're replying to.The term "flagship" in the sense of being the command ship of a flag officer originated because each flag officer was entitled to their own personal flag that flew to show they were aboard, hence the term "flag officer." But that historically has not been the sole definition of the term. The Enterprise is considered the Federation's flagship or Starfleet's flagship because they are trusted to symbolically show the flag of the Federation as a whole as the exemplar of its values. The series has also used the term in its strict military fleet definition, so it's not like the writers are unaware of it.
Also while I'm at it, one could argue that Federation technology makes it so that a ship like the Galaxy class has the facilities and resources of a fleet of its own, without needing support ships and the like. Much like how it looks like junior officers do all the menial work, because ships are automated enough that 99% of enlisted jobs are done by the computer (the remaining 1% is O'Brien).
>>98179471>entire ship is roombas>they become sentient and refuse to work>farm it out to space interns fresh out of college instead
>>98180679The Enterprise is an illustrious enough post that they could find someone with an unhealthy love for manual cleaning to supplement the automation.
>>98179395>>98179432oh just non-answers got it>>98179471let's be honest nothing much about the tech makes sensemanually targeting is worse but the weapons and transporters still need a unicorn to operate? sure, sure, the tubby irish guy who keeps wearing random rank insignia to see if anybody notices is doing any number of complex equations in his head so that you don't get turned inside out by the "energy stream", really
>>98179471>The ship is so efficient that all the manual labor is done by one Irish maleO'Brien must suffer.
>>98183110>oh just non-answers got itironic
>>98180686They found a guy who loved cutting hair so much that all he does all day and night is cut people's hair while living on the Enterprise. They even call him the best barber in the entire fleet
>>98184120The Bolian barber was the most important person on the Enterprise.
>>98184202Remember the time Mr. Mot single-handedly defeated a gang of terrorists trying to seize trilithium resin?
Bolian women with silver hair and I don't care if her fluids are toxic goddamnit.
