Is being an edgelord actually edgy again? People shit on rogues and warlocks but always suck off paladins and fighters these days.
Give it ten years. Taqqiya through the pogroms and you'll be alright.
>>98054659No idea, depends on what the dominant culture of play is in a given area or a given group.Stereotypically, being the "wrong" sort of edgy just gets [ t h o s e ] people huffy and accusatory, while being the "right" sort of edgy that isn't actually edgy at all is stunning and brave and also omnipresent (Non-binary queer communist tiefling warlock that's actually just mischievous unless they're punching fascists)These days actual edgy is a male human fighter who's ruthless/unsentimental.
>>98054659A bunch of LARPer kids got braiwashed into believing pearl clutching soccer mom from the 80s was a personality worth having. While DnD has been trying to remove edgy content since the 90s with TSR. If you like being edgy this is the best cultural moment to fight against the oceans of bullshit and make a difference.
>>98054659It comes and goes compare how bleak 90's media was and then compare it to 2000's psychedelic fad
>>98054780>>98054791Everyone knows that if an artist uses satanic iconography, it's proof positive that they're a baby-blood drinking child-molesting black-book-signing cultist of the Dark Lord and immediately need to be deplatformed to prevent Harm. It couldn't possibly be that they're fishing for attention or doing a bit.
>>98054780>The most common type of character is edgyThis just in, edgy no longer means anything, children destroy yet another word.
>>98054659Edgy is just what normies call realism and neither your picrel nor your faggy tiefling warlock are it.
>>98054659Edgy is just whatever will offend a suburban mom, so its changed from >edgy is having wild hair and being a libertine to>edgy is having short hair and being conservative The power fantasy of righteous violence is still the same, the justifications shift around with fashion
>>98054659I am yet to meet a Fighter and Palladin player other than me. Everyone plays Warlocks and Rogues
>>98054791>DnD has been trying to remove edgy content since the 90sIts swung around a few times and it'll swing around again.
>>98054780Meanwhile in reality this shit is posted everywherehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeahzYGuIKY&pp=ygUSaHVtYW4gbWFsZSBmaWdodGVy
>>98054659"Edgy" isn't a class, it's behavior.You can make a non Edgelord Hexblade Warlock and a Edgelord Paladin Oath of Devotion.
Edgy used to mean dark, brooding, and melancholic, sort of like Elric of Melinbone. Then sentimental emos made that gay, and edgy turned into hatred and grusome ultraviolence. Then that also turned gay, and now edgy means anything remotely offensive to social norms. But lo, the wheel keeps on turning, and that’s no longer edgy any more. I don’t know what the next step of edgy is going to be, but playing some rational, normal person who isn’t some tortured anti hero, snowflake freak, or moralistic crusader is probably the most against the grain you can be>>98054780>These days actual edgy is a male human fighter who's ruthless/unsentimental.Lol, how many people do you think are roleplaying a 1:1 Guts clone right now?
>>98055290The cancer mage still cracks me up.>Enjoy your colon cancer you fucking casual
>>98054659Old thread's still up cunt. >>98010266Go be a glownigger somewhere else you government-sponsored shitposting twat.>>98055539Edgy didn't stop meaning something offensive to social norms.The social norms are the ones that got fucked six ways to Sunday.Right now, it's edgy to NOT be a one-man-freakshow.That said, it depends on what sort of people you've got hanging around.There are still places on this godforsaken planet, where being a freakshit is still edgy.
>>98055290The only reason DnD posted this book back then was because WoD was taking a lot of their sales and general culture moved to more adult and dark aligned themes, instead of constantly bland safe slop like now. Current DnD has no incentive to do it again until culture in general does a turn, which would be favored by outsiders and not a corporation like Hasbro.
'Edgy' means different things in different context but I'd say the glut of uwu chaotic tieflings who are cutesy but bash-the-fash doesn't really feel like it has bite anymore. It is defanged. You aren't threatening anyone, you're not shaking any status quo. Same with satanic imagery and double so when you're being a wuss and go 'but no bad stuff(tm). They defanged evil and wear it like a colorful costume.
>>98055108Replace "satanic iconography" with "nazi iconography" or "fat anime titties" and you've got modern leftoid puritroon neoeunuchs, yeah.
>>98055539>Calvin if these poseurs were worth anythnng they'd have offed themselves like Pelle.
Edgelords didn't change and neither did edge. People just got bored of how repetitive it was. If you don't want that, just write a good character. That's all you need to do.
"Edgy" became cringe because general society began to see through it. Scary radical punk bands were exposed for really being incompetent pop rock bands whining inanely about politics they don't understand. Batman, Fight Club, and American Psycho are consumer products 14 year olds can buy into to show how cool they are to their dorky friends. Edgy jokes are really just attempts to shock people by how inconsiderate and bigoted you can be. And so on. If you want to rebel against the system, now the bar is a lot higher. You actually have to find alternative ways of being that are valuable and offer solutions. Watching some edgy action movie is meaningless now. Get into structural analysis. Don't look for whiny, obnoxious rock bands, look for beautiful avant-garde pieces most people are too dim to understand. Live your life to your own vision, don't buy into a manufactured rebellious image.
>>98054659I think you should probably clarify what being an edgelord actually MEANS in this case.Probably the most counter-culture thing you could play is a straight white male fighter who fights for money and is patriotic.
>>98056896You'll understand when you're old enough to have seen fashion change a few times.
>>98056896WoD was starting to decline when The Book of Vile Darkness was published. It got to the point that White Wolf opted to end WoD and replace it with what is currently known as Chronicles of Darkness 2 years later.BoVD was an attempt to push the limits of acceptable age rating on d20 stuff by Monte Cook and other WotC freelancers.They knew where the line was and tried to push as close to the edge as possible in order to build out from it. The problem was that it emboldened a 3rd party group to publish the Book of Erotic Fantasy which went way over the acceptable line for d20 products.>>98057274Being edgy became cringe because the "edges" or limits of good taste shifted. Being Goth and/or Punk became forms of standard fashion rather than being just on the edge of acceptability. Ultra-violence became more and less acceptable due to getting rated and categorized which set different limits for ultra-violence.
>>98057274>You actually have to find alternative ways of being that are valuable and offer solutions.>look for beautiful avant-garde pieces most people are too dim to understandlmao
>>98057371>Probably the most counter-culture thing you could play is a straight white male fighter who fights for money and is patriotic.male fighter is the most popular character combo even in 5efighting just for money is still a popular motivation because of how simple it is to just roll up to a table for a handoutthis is the equivalent of ordering a vanilla, telling everyone vanilla is hipster now because chocolate has been more popular now, and then conveniently forget that vanilla is still the most sold flavor of ice cream by farthis post just absolutely reeks of insecurityits not enough that you play the most popular character archetype ever, you need to justify why playing whats popular is actually secretly hipster actually
>>98054659It's edgy, but not in the way where everyone will brood in the corner with their trenchcoats and katanas like the 90s or 00s.It's more likely to be disruptive than part of the fun.
>>98054659edge can be fun or it can be supremely lame and pathetic. depends on the execution. just read the room. any class can be edgy or wholesome. one guy I played with was an evil restorationist / life cleric as it were who healed people to prolong their suffering and give them more opportunities to sin and earn their place in hell
>>98057575>depends on the execution
>>98057468The book of vile darkness came out in 2002, back then WoD was the second best selling RPG and DnD subcontracted them to write books because of their good reputation. They only started to decline when they nuked their own lore years later in one of the first attempts at removing "problematic" elements. After that DnD too started to remove edgy elements first with the slop that was 4e and finally with 5e, since they no longer had any real competition to remain dark or edgy. As said before if the change is going to come it will be from outsiders and competitors, no from established IPs with 0 reason to change their risk averse practices.
>>98057515The thing with people being like "actually punk is when you make a human warrior" is that most boring and lame people do understand, consciously or not, that they are boring and lame. And boring and lame people are, consciously or not, jealous of people who are cool and interesting. it is humiliating to be considered boring and lame. so when these boring and lame people encounter something that is considered cool and interesting, such as being "counterculture", they desperately want to be included in this "counterculture" so that they will be considered cool and interesting instead of boring and lame. and the way they try to achieve this is not by engaging with this cool and interesting thing so that they might become someone cool and interesting by association, but by stretching the definition of "cool and interesting" until it applies to people who are boring and lame. therefore the REAL punk is to go to the library. the REAL edge is making a paladin who follows his religion withouy fail and never makes any trouble. the REAL counterculture is to obey all the tenets of tradition to the letter. because otherwise the speaker would be lame and boring, and that would be humiliating.
>>98058388Isn't it quite the opposite? I mean, everyone is basically secular now, and everyone is - I dunno - at least performative pro-liberal, pro-feminist or whatever. So a guy who really does enjoy killing people for his God is pretty counter-culture, since the prevailing idea is that it's not acceptable to do that any more if you're a white Westerner. It's why the crusader aesthetic is so loved, everyone longs for the days of shedding blood for God.
>>98058402No. They're not. Christianity is the world's most popular religion. Christian churches dictate government policy and wield massive political influence everywhere. IN GOD WE TRUST is written in our moneybills. You are not counterculture for following the single most politically influent non-government organization in the planet.
>>98058402wtf is this delusional rambling? a con man larping as a fascist is in the white house and same is happening in other countries around the world. if anything being punk, edgy or counter culture is the most radical thing it's been in years
>>98058435But he's in the White House precisely because people were sick of performative virtue.
>>98058388You've kinda got it backwards. In modern culture, subverting expectations is now the norm, so playing things straight has become the subversion. When the majority of media is irony poisoned snarkfests, sincerity becomes counterculture.However, you are partially right in that this doesn't really apply to the human male fighter meme, as a HMF can be played as sincerely or ironically as one wishes, just that same as any other race/class combo.
>>98058402This delusion is what media capture and a persecution complex gets you.
>>98058439he got in because he's a con man who makes a living out of lying like saying he is not going to start wars just to start one and destroy the economy while restricting civic liberties. but thats beside the point of this discussion. you don't get to claim to be edgy and counter culture when your idol is some parasite who was born rich and in the elite of society and is currently supported by the powers that be, the military industrial complex and powerful batshit insane religious cults. it goes against the definition of these things. counter culture always has been about sticking it to the system. even in RPGs back then when they try to cancel them for being "satanic" and morally wrongful to like them or play them. or to like fantasy novels. or to like harry potter.
>>98058388What's your theory about this phenomenon? My own is that the upper classes have envy of the lower classes, because despite their higher material status they don't have culture and are unable to create it. So they want to disguise and appear from a lower status despite not being one. Like the "hello fellow kids" meme.
>>98058465>In modern culture, subverting expectations is now the normNo it isn't. Your persecution complex isn't real. There are 1 billion fantasy/superhero/scifi stories that are completely uncritical and unsubversive and more are made every minute. There is no "irony poisoned snackfest." You want to pretend it is so you can pretend you're special for doing the same exact thing literally everyone else has done for decades.
>>98058543nta but that anon has a specific point there. irony poisoning has been a thing for ages. in particular being edgy is one of the purest form of sincerity to ever exists.
>>98058541The Tangle of Pathology theory says that behaviors from the lower class will inevitably slide up to the upper class, unless measures are taken to prevent it.Good examples would be the upper class listening to jazz and hip hop, albeit secretly until it becomes passe enough to do openly.
>>98058562Irony poisoning is not a thing as a broad cultural trend. It's not the default state of society. People still make completely uncritical and unsubversive movies all the time and make millions of dollars from them. That is the default state of stories. "Subversion" is not some trend any more that it is a thing people do sometimes, always have, and always will do.
>>98058541My theory is that they are mad that someone, anyone, is deviating from the way things should be. When anyone dares to write anything but the most rote and by the books slop, it's a personal insult. Someone trying to be different from the masses in any way is blasphemous.So they try to rewrite the definitions of words so ACTUALLY, the way that you diverge from the masses is by doing the same exact thing that everyone else is doing. The way that you go against society is to just conform to the rules of society. It's a form of clawing back control.
>>98058592it has been the default state of popular culture which is the matter at hand here. this is really not a matter of contention because you can watch the original star wars and then watch the nu-sequels and see how they're filled with dumb unfunny memes and jokes while trying to tear down beloved characters (lol luke drinks milk from titty i'm not right guys xD?) for no other purpose than pure cynicism and demoralization. "subversive" is broader and vaguer category, but usually what people mean with subversive shit is irony slop. everyone likes a good or a smart twist on a movie, but nobody is going to applaud your low quality marvel quip
>>98058648Have you ever read a single comic back from then? Spiderman is constantly quipping at his enemies. You literally don't know what the fuck you're talking about.>uhhhh the sequels are full of stupid jokes!!!Yeah, like the prequels. Your victim complex makes you look like an idiot. We are barraged with unsubversive, by the book books, shows and movies. Top Gun Maverick made a bazillion dollars. Every week a new cultivation/isekai/dungeon manga comes out and makes one trillion dollars. We are barraged with the most rote and by the books slop from all directions but to you, it's not enough. Making some basic bitch orc can't just be the thing everyone is doing, it's gotta be SPECIAL. You need to be praised for being derivative slop.
>>98058689why would you even bring spiderman to this discussion when his whole thing was that he makes dumb jokes? point here is now that's not a significant character trait because everyone is doing dumb jokes all the time. so his attempts at being funny just come off as noise.and star wars prequels are very serious and eagerly dramatic. serious characters act serious and there's tension and death represented. anakin turning to the dark side, political maneuvering by the emperor, the sith warriors appearing and trying to murder obi wan and Qui-Gon, and the betrayal of the clones. the only unserious element was jar jar binks but that was hated back then too. i'm not even the other anon you were replying (thats why I said NTA), and I don't like gun maverick. you seem too stupid to handle nuanced discussion and eager to scream in the hair with black and white thinking looking for enemies in the forest.
"Being unsubversive is the reall counter culture" when they look at the state of manga/manwha
There is no counter culture in the westerns world, we've been the global consumer empire for 4 decades uncontested at this point. Its just different flavour additives to your sodaslop machine. >edgy product >hippy product >trad product >progressive product Its just pallet swaps as the consumables and market capture gets dialed in. Turns out convincing your consumers their desires are also the correct moral and ethical choice is very easy. Most of us want to keep doing what we're doing, believe what we already believe and get sold that's what's good and its been solved that more sales happen when you have chunky, regular, mild, medium and hot. That's all entertainment is. Our hobbies are not political statements or activism of any sort.
>>98058873>when his whole thing was that he makes dumb jokes?Oh, so now it's his thing's. And it's also Human Torch's, and Thing's, and Iron Man's, and Wolverine's, and Star Lord's, and Cyborg's, and Plastic Man's, Beast Boy's, and one billion other superheroes. Just admit that you simply don't know what you're talking about. You talk about quips but superheroes have been doing smarmy quips constantly from day 1. Nearly every superhero group has like 2 to 4 guys whose job is to constantly quip and the others do it too every now and then. It's not "subversion" when the MCU did it they literally were just doing what the source material did.And guess what, the sequels are also serious. They aren't good, but they are just as serious as the prequels.>but Luke!!!Literally is just Obi-Wan. His character is him becoming Obi-Wan. That's the least subversive thing imaginable. That's literally trying to force the story into the molds of the original rather then strike out and do a new thing. It's why Palpatine returns instead of literally any other villain.
>>98054659Why do you keep making threads for this comic book / tv show on this board?
>>98055108Do you have low reading comprehension or something?
>>98058543>>98058592>gaslight, gatekeep, girlbossThank you for proving my point
>>98059555wow, some shit some nobody said that nobody cares about and that has nothing to do with anything i said. surely that proves that actually edge is being cheery and happy and living in a cottage with your wife.Words mean things, dipshit.
>>98058543>irony poisoned snackfest>snackfestOh no, it's retarded
>>98059558>Words mean things, dipshit.Tall talk from a proven illiterate
>>98059538Do you not realize that the person you are replying to agrees with you?
>>98059571What I'm saying is that the MCU is not subverting anything by having heroes quip 24/7. That's what comics do. Literally grab the cover of an X-Man comic and you'll see the heroes doing a quip about the villains' powers.
>>98059571>>98059579Actually, gonna just provide an example. Teen Titans? Characters don't stop quipping. X-Men? Characters don't stop quipping. The MCU was subverting nothing. You don't like it and you want to pretend that it was some ironic thing but it wasn't. It's literally just comics.
>>98054659If you are edgelord, the actual edgelord, not some limp-writed alt-whatever faggot, chances are, you are a groupless faggot and nobody can't stand you.Nobody likes your ilk. Nobody ever did, but you had your moment circa 2003.Thankfully that moment passed long ago
>>98058465>In modern culture, subverting expectations is now the normits literally how the thesis, antithesis, synthesis cycle workssubverting the norm is and always has been the norm because nobody wants to see the same thing over and over againthe "why do people keep subverting things" is the most juvenile possible mindset of just wanting to stay in the thesis for eternity without ever giving it even the slightest thought
>>98061187It's more that things nowadays are subverted without intention or execution and nothing is built up in place of what was subverted. You're sneering down on those who enjoy a well-executed yet worshipping the taint of self-congratulatory midwits who are likewise stuck forever on antithesis and going around kicking over other people's sandcastles because they think it makes them an intellectual.You can't just go "erm ACKshully, the noble hero is a selfish, cowardly prick who never should've saved anyone!" and leave it at that.
>>98054659Probably not, op.An edgy character can be done right usually if the edge is a reasonable response to the character’s surroundings.I think Guts from Berserk is a good example of this.Plus his Gary Stu nature is probably mitigated or completely invalidated by how many bad things happened to him.Now as for what constitutes as edgy depends on the local community now.If the community supports stuff considered “woke” then just being a straight human male fighter is edgy.It can work the other way around too.On the internet it is a lot harder to tell what is or isn’t edgy if being edgy is just opposing the dominant culture.Maybe the natives of north sentinel island are the ultimate edge lords because they don’t conform to the modern world and remain truly traditional in living traditionally tribal ways before the invention of fire.As long as the character and setting makes you happy I think that is what matters between you and your group.
>>98055403For how badass the traditional full-helmet knight guys in TES are, there are fleetingly few opportunities to actually play them.
>>98061187Sounds like a feedback loop of stupidity.>>98061839There's a literary uncanny valley I've noticed forming as early as 2008 that has only deepened and become more prolific since. I just get the sensation that thing I'm experiencing, whatever it is, wasn't written by a human, just something like one. I think what we're both describing is an unchecked epidemic of mental illness that started with millennials coming of age. Like behind their own eyes, there's nothing behind their writing but vanity and weird power fantasies.
>>98062263I think you’re noticing something that is very true but a term hasn’t been applied.Or we don’t know what the term is.Admittedly if I went after writing I’d probably fall into the same traps too.Seriously after caring about tropes and how writing reflects the author I’ve been poisoned and I think what little creativity and imagination I had has suffered.
>>98062273I think we should call it the Chris-chan effect. OPs picrel, The Boys, is pretty much just sonichu comics with super heroes. I wouldn't worry about tropes at all when the bar is this low, careful attention to suspending a reader's disbelief can make just about anything seem plausible.
>>98062305>Chris-Chan effectYou gotta go into more detail over this.I know of Chris Chan but I’m not sure what you mean by this.I just see Chris Chan as a “parody mirror” in being a satirical living caricature of whatever the dominant political opinions reach him the most if we’re just talking about looking deeply into that autist.You’re right that the bar is low when it comes to writing quality but I know that writing is harder than it sounds and creativity is a muscle that I don’t think I’ve exercised properly ever.
>>98062313I'd recommend looking at his comics or just maybe reading or watching a summary. You will be amazed, flabbergasted, probably a little terrified at how his delusions put to paper mirror so many modern writing tropes before they were even tropes. Its just way more hyperbolic and obvious that something is really, really wrong here in his case. Whereas The Boys sidesteps this visceral reaction somewhat with professional art and actually having been published.
>>98062313Chris-Chan is a classic case study in a low-functioning autist retreating entirely into such a realm of wish-fulfilment fantasy as that chap described.His first foray onto the internet revolved around his perennial "Original Work" - the "Sonichu" universe, centered on his imaginary world of "CWCville" (pronounced Quick-ville, is in fact, a terrible pun on his initials) wherein he is lord mayor, god, father, and lover to his creations.Oh, and he trooned out before the mom-lestation arc.That was a thing.
>>98062324I’m already in very deep with Chris Chan lore.I still follow but just out of sunk cost fallacy.>>98062378So essentially it is just a power fantasy that doesn’t even hide it with a blatant self insert?And the boys from the op pic does it better just from better art alone?Chris Chan’s universe is actually pretty dark and edgy if you think about it with CWCville being an authoritarian city state dystopia.And even current Chris’ dimensional merge thing is not a sunshine and rainbows thing but really a nightmare apocalypse as plenty of fictional ips have grimdark in them.I’m sure a good number are equal to nightmarish and worse than 40k alone.>trooned outAin’t it disturbing that Chris Chan did a lot of things before they became mainstream popularity? Guy’s like a harbinger of future trends and is like a worst case scenario or the trend in physical form.
>>98058354How long do you think it takes to develop a new edition? WoD was starting to decline in 2002. That is why they spent 2003 developing nWoD and then destroyed the oWoD with Time of Judgment in the first half of 2004 and then immediately launched nWoD in the second half.
>>98062410>And the boys from the op pic does it better just from better art alone?More that it gets a free pass for it in the mind of the modern normie for completely superficial reasons. I have a writing project I haven't touched in three months because I see the point of even bothering less and less every day. I can't make money off this beyond panhandling in current year and my time would unironically be better spent making woodwork sculptures to sell to knick knack stores like my old neighbor did.
