How are non-magic users supposed to counter mages, warlocks, sorcerers and wizards with the fuckhuge powergap?
>>98084343In a remotely sensibly designed system, the "power gap" is a difference in force-over-time wherein the casterfags have briefly higher peaks whereas the non-casters can just keep going and going and going at far higher performance than the cantrips or whatever. Additionally, they tend to have further constraints on spellcasting that make the prominent disparity in breadth less relevant once the immediate fight starts.
>>98084343In most systems and settings the powergap isn't really that fuckhuge, if it's there at all.
Have you tried playing 4e?
>>98084414Have you tried playing Pathfinder 2e?
>>98084343Sword them real good and there's no powergap.
>>98084414NTA, but unfortunately, I did, and I have fuckloads of the useless books.
>>98084343Gun.>but magical shiel-Machine gun.
Harry potter has the most ass fucking magic systemUnironically just blast away the wands and they can't do shit
>>98084343Depends on the setting/system. Like, maybe non-mages can use enchanted items for instance.
>>98084923>PRUÉBAME!Sounds like a spell they'd use
>>98084343By playing a game that makes its options make sense for the world and creates playstyles where everyone can contribute, and not using collaborative writing systems that just shove pop culture references everywhere, internal consistency be damned.
>>98084946Magic items don't work because magic users can use them too.it doesnt level the field.
>>98084343>with the fuckhuge powergap?They aren't, if there is an actual, insurmountable, huge powergap. There usually isn't though, with the investment necessary for a wizard to get busted enough, in most systems, you can build an army, unless your "D"M is consistently ignoring encumberance, magical components, questing for knowledge about magical spells beyond 1st level ones, people thinking logically and developing countermeasures to magical bullshit if they survive, other wizards existing and not wanting competition, and a myriad of other logical and immediately obvious ways/reasons one would have to balance wizards.The way I see it, in systems where there is a huge powergap between a level 5 fighter and a level 5 wizard, wizards are probably supposed to be rare enough that they didn't completely dominate and warp fantasy society.In systems where there are readily useable magical items to cover for the difference then use that, a fighter with a magic resisting armor and a magical bullshit sword can sack the wizard through a barrage of 1 turn spells before he can finish the big spell recitation.If you're the type to complain about fighters using magical items then I request that you stop using every piece of technology you don't have a degree on every area used to build it; namely, don't use the internet unless you know how to (in your home) build computers (and each of their parts) and connect wirelessly them from scratch (without consulting tutorials), don't use medication if you can't chemically synthetize them in your kitchen, don't drive cars if you can't build an internal combustion engine out of bamboo and drill/refine oil with a stick and some pans, etc...
>>98084343Nothing says "parry this you filthy wizard" like a nuke.
>>98084343Like so.
>>98085557Is the helmet for when your firearm blows up in your face due to the dense magickal aura screwing up the certainties of technology?
>>98084343Beat their initiative, run at them, two shot them>>98084425Exactly like this. Anyone who has ever complained about casters being better than martials just needs to play this and see how the shoe on the other foot looks
>>98084343You determine the magic-user's weaknesses and vulnerabilities, then work to exploit them.Do they have a limited number of spells they can cast per day? Trick or force them to expend all their spells. Do spells take several seconds or longer to cast? Hit them with enough threats at one time or in quick succession that they can't keep up. Do spells require special, consumable material components? Sabotage their supply line by buying up all the newt eyes or pissing in the holy water jar. Do they still have to eat and sleep? Poison their food or make your move while they are insensate in bed.>>98085293Magic items don't level the playing field 1-on-1. But the OP question was not "How can a Fighter match a Wizard?" The question was how to "counter" magic-users, which leaves a lot of parameters open.In that light, it is entirely valid to say that magic items can be helpful in countering them, because normal people (probably) have a numerical advantage.
>>98084923I'm pretty sure that Rowling said Harry Potter could only take place in England - if you moved the story to America the story'd be over in one book when Tyrone Potter casts "Squeezus Gattus."
>>98084343What game?
Just use stealth.
>>98086635Rowling also said that all the time machines in the world where in the same box and they fell and broke.She's a retarded world builder.
>>98086811On the contrary, she understands the thought processes of wizards perfectly. Of course they would constantly shit themselves and teleport the mess away, they're wizards.
Does there need to be a huge difference in power between Arcane Flame Blast and Heavenly Sword Strike? I feel like a game can balance magic and non-magic options if the creators give a shit. Mana Points and Stamina Points can both fuel special abilities. If your system tells non-magic people to just use Basic Strike 2000 times in a row, that's probably bad design.
>>98084923Actually, it's canon that African mages rejected European wand magic. They still practice wandless magic. It's much harder and less predictable, but it's also much more powerful. An African wizard can, again canonically, blast a European wizard's jaw smooth off and won't be arrested because of the "unpredictability" of wandless magic. Asian mages, though, jumped at the opportunity to learn how wands worked. They mastered and elevated it beyond what any European wizard was capable of.
>>98086934>I feel like a game can balance magic and non-magic options if the creators give a shit.D&D's designers are mostly fat nerds so the fact that they do not value physical fitness is unsurprising.
>>98086934A lot of the butthurt about magic and non-magic was caused by 3.X removing a lot of the balancing factors magic had in earlier editions and then nerfing martial options. >>98086958Just 3.X/Pathfinder 1e and 5e's. WotC made a massive mess of things.
Harry Potter really does not give a shit about non magic users, you're a wizard or bust. Even non humans have magic, they're just forbidden from using wands because wizard racism. Meanwhile magicless humans born to wizards are treated as jokes
>>98084343Last I checked a steel blade kills them just as easily as anyone else. Usually easier since for balance reasons they generally don't wear armor or have a lot of hp.A few stabs and they are dead.Killed plenty of magical buggers with martial tactics in games. It's rarely a issue unless they have resistances to standard damage types or immunity to physical attacks. In which case a magic weapon or weapon made of special materials to negative such resistance is needed. Still doable though. Really only a issue if your gm is being a jerk and making EVERYTHING have crazy resistances while never offering up equipment to deal with the threats he puts in encounters. That or everything magical is hyper evasive and teleports any time a martial gets in striking range, which is why I to this day hate anything to do with fae in games, as that is generally exactly how fairies and pixies fight. But standard run of the mill evil wizards are pretty simple. Close distance and kill them to death.
>>98086644Ars Magica >>98081697
Canonically the point of divergence between our world and the wizarding world was the witch trials, so a normie probably can fuck a wizard up
>>98084343Shoot them in the head
>>98086934That's basically DC20. Martial classes have Stamina Points (SP) and Casters have Mana Points (MP). They also have Spellblade which is a hybrid class that has both.
Beat their ass. All magic users and monsters in every setting that exists always has a weakness that renders them powerless, so you lean into thay aspect.
>>98084343Gunpowder
>>98084343automatic firearms. Avada Kedavra, meet Avtomat Kalashnikova.
>>98084343Brick
>>98084343Play anima.Oh fuck shit sorry you have sub 3 digit IQ :(
>>98086635>Go to American Hogwarts >It's another wizard school shooting >Just two really white skinny wizards with dully automatic wands, backpacks filled with mana potions and wearing enchanted armor.
>>98084343Don't fight the magic, fight the person using it. Wizards are just people. And people are prideful, vain, shortsighted creatures. They can be tricked, surprised, or betrayed. You don't fighting a wizard by unsheathing your sword and charging at them from 100 ft away screaming bloody murder, for the same reason you don't challenge a knight in full harness on horseback. To do so would be to play directly into their hands, in the sort of engagement where they have the most advantage. You don't fight through their magic, you fight around it. A wizard's spells are much less scary when the wine you poisoned makes their throat swell shut. Every wizard has a hundred spells that will instantly win them the fight, and their plans go out the window the first time your hammer smashes into the side of their skull. Or even just sneak into their tower and burn the place to the ground while they are out doing other things. You ever seen a wizard with no spellbooks and having lost the decades of research and trinkets they have spent their life amassing? Its a pathetic sight.
>>98086947>Asian mages, though, jumped at the opportunity to learn how wands worked. They mastered and elevated it beyond what any European wizard was capable of.Thats lame. Eastern magic is such a well documented set of folklore that just having them use wands is lazy as fuck. They should have onmoyoji using paper talismans and shit, working on an entirely different framework of magic because how they control magic evolved totally independently of european wizards.
>>98084343>the fuckhuge powergapPlay a game that respects all of its options and maintains internal consistency, instead of participating in collaborative writing activities that just throw pop culture references together.
>>98086437Back when I DMed 3.5 I actually used the population by class charts in the DMG. High level magic users are not that rare in any setting with multiple settlements with above 50k inhabitants. I never had this problem with 4e which is why I made the switch.
>>98088416Rowling is neither smart nor well-read.
>>98088416>They should have onmoyoji using paper talismans and shit, working on an entirely different framework of magic because how they control magic evolved totally independently of european wizards.Do you want Clow Reed? Because this shit is how you get Clow Reed.
>>98088888I mean, she isn't, but we need her to fight the troons so we kind of have to, you know.
>>98088912I want Harry Potter but Teito Monogatari, which I know CLAMP has read or watched
>>98089073Ultimate examplar of culture war mind virus in one post
>>98089073>you knowI don't know and I don't care about that bunch of nonsense.
>>98084343Guns. Lots of guns.
>>98084375This is true in DnD just most games there's plenty of time to rest and prepare and most DMs don't try to push the party.It can be hard to set up, but if you have a situation where players can't rest, have multiple encounters, and can't just outright solve the situation with magic you can have a situation even in 5e where Casters aren't completely dominant. Yeah it's a lot of work when you could not play DnD but the option is there.
>>98084343Maybe use the power balance tricks of earlier editions? Mages were poweful, but only until they had cast their spells, then they were helpless. They were glass cannos basically.Half the tactics involved getting them to fire off their limited number of spells at false targets or chaff units, then running in and braining them when empty.Constant attrition could also work as the MU used to take time to relearn a spell and only when fully rested, around half an hour of uninterrupted meditation per spell level. By constantly causing interruptions and false attacks, you could ensure a magic user never got to relearn his spells. This also meant that high level mages needed days or weeks to fully recharge, often in long high intensity campaigns running on half empty.You could also do other things, like target the huge spell tome the magic user needs to relearn his spells from - sending in a thief to steal it, use fire, water, etc to ruin it, etc.The balance went out the window though with the 'Big Rest' mechanic and the MUs ability to always being able to cast something (Mage Bolt, etc). If they don't need to track reloading and have infinite ammo, the balance tends to be pretty much gone.
>>98086099>Anyone who has ever complained about casters being better than martials just needs to play this and see how the shoe on the other foot looksIt's really ridiculous just how good fighter types are in PF2e. Just casually dealing dozens of dice worth of damage per turn forever. And every spell got nerfed to the point where you might as well just use it to give the fighter more damage because every save or suck spell only gets the full effect on a crit fail on the save.
>>98084343Punch the dumb nerd in his dumb nerd face and stuff him in his locker.
>>98086947How good is the healing magic of HP?
>>98084343All is magic. Rogues have magic stealth, maybe even *teleports behind you* and ninjutsu. Warriors have magical endurance, strength, power, armors of mythical beast hides, weaponry. Full hp warriors can melee attack at range. Video game logic fixes this.
>>98088311What DOES a typical school shooting in an American wizarding school look like?
>>98088912yeah i want clow reed, what of it?
>>98084343>tries to cast a 2d10 magic characteristic fireball>dubz check 'em>Roll fun of tzeentch>95+>Roll on the next table>Scurr'd>95+>Roll on the B I G table>87>Get sucked ass-first into the warp>Fireball still goes off for 1d10+3 damage I guess
>>98090702Harry in-universe is unironically a jock with rich parents and grows up to be a wizard copEven his dad was a bully and his victim dies cucked helping the son of his crush
>>98091262I didn't know Joanne was based like that
>>98091262>rich nepobaby jock protagonist>his best friends are a poorfag, a nerd, a loser and a schizoHoly shit, Harry Potter is the Breakfast Club but with magic. I cracked the code.
>>98091262Snape wasn't really a victim. Bro was literally picking fights with the marauders back then and creating spells like "cut your neck so you bleed to death" and hanging out with Voldemort's club before James was even involved. His story is incredibly self-serving.
>>98084343They're notD&D isn't built for PVP
>>98091376Guess we got our answer to what a wizard school shooter would look like
I never saw these as a kid and I kinda wish I didn't miss out on it
>>98088311Clortho's is not sending their best.
>>98089073>>98088888kek, troon melty
>>98091874Weird post
>>98084375that's awful actually, a good system will either just let the "mundanes" do mundane things magically well, or it will force everyone to play the same mage splat so they're on equal footing
>>98084343In the Potter verse? Just shoot them.
>>98091262It is hilarious to me that Snape is black now when Potter's dad hangs him from tree is basically a rich white kid lynching a black kid now.
>>98091950Anon please, I know James Potter was a GigaChad, you don't need to sell me on him.
>>98084343>mages, warlocks, sorcerers and wizardsHey, don't forget bards
>>98086893When I was in high school, sometimes I got stomachaches in class and thought about wishing I could cast a spell that immediately teleports the contents of my intestines to a sewer without me having to leave the classroom or endure the pain much. When Rowling made that tweet it reminded me of that wish and I thought that was what she meant at first, but on rereading it, it really does sound like wizards just shit on the spot and then disappear the evidence, may or not include mempries of the incident. It's very puzzling why she thought to tweet that.
>>98086893>>98092066Pretty sure that was a fake shitpost
>>98084343which game?
>>98085557protection from missiles, invisibility, fly, haste, windwall, stoneskin, mirror image, blur, shapechange, hold person, imprisonment, dominate, spell sequencer, contingency, etc
>>98086437how are you going to trick or force a caster into doing anything when you have no method of locating or detecting him?
>>98086971No, it really doesn't. That's the point.
>>98092100now is your chance, don't let your dreams be just dreamshttps://4chan.org/janitorapp
>>98088357Can't be tricked or surprised, and they can read your mind, and they can teleport to an impemetrable demiplane at will, and they have infinite wealth. You have no ability to make them care about you or anything you do.
>>98091396that is irrelevant to the question.
>>98091897nope, just a troon melty
>>98092116well? which game?
>>98091950I remember a youtuber RK Outpost mention that as soon as they hinted about Black Snape and now everyone making that same joke. Though to be fair, Harry Potter itself is a shit series that I don't see how people seriously like, however after the left flip out over their WOKE god wasn't for troons being women and she became their devil, I am not going to act like her work was good to piss off the left and "own the woke."
>>98092175>Harry Potter itself is a shit series that I don't see how people seriously likeIt's not a good series but the idea and whimsy is what a lot of people fell in love with. Escapist story, magic school, baby's first Hero's Journey, chocolate frog cars and a flying car, people criticize "x but magic" and random hodgepodges of real world myth and historical figures connected to magic thrown in, but that was cool to a lot of kids. It's when a people tried to dig deeper is when they started falling out of of love and grew up >after the left flip out over their WOKE godIt was criticized by the left for years, just not the clinton liberal typesIt's like >>98091874 somehow(probably just trolling so who cares) not knowing that Rowling was considered a bad writer for decades
>>98084375The Reason why the wizards and witches were hiding in their world is that a normal person with a shotgun would easily kill MOST magic users.Guns are a great equalizer.
>>98086099I thought Pathfinder was known for caster supremacy.
>>98089244My guy, you can hate the culture war bullshit all you want, but that doesn't make it stop existing and it's certainly not some minor thing.Companies have burned down every product and franchise over the culture war.
>>98093147God help me, this was meant for: >>98089244
>>98092808Pathfinder 1e is where casters rule supreme. From my limited experience, Pathfinder 2e brings their combat power down so much that you are better off in combat situations with a party of full martials. Casters still have more options outside of combat, but most of the juicy stuff is locked behind rarity so it isn't a big loss.
>>98084343For the wizarding world of Harry Potter, the wizard police/ministry/wizard FBI make sure no wizard criminals upset the world of non-wizards. Considering that lots of wizards and witches are born from muggles, there's an incentive for muggle-born to protect non-wizards.
>>98084343Gun.Harry Potter wizards actually aren't too overpowered, at least relative to magic-users in fiction.The only difference between wizards and humans is the ability to use magic. That's to say, they're generally only as physically able as the average human.But more importantly, HP magic is quite restrained on a structural level.Every spell is standardized and has a straight-forward, empirically reproducible effect - a sufficiently motivated group of muggles could easily map out the limits and capabilities of this magic system and develop counter-tactics.>Tl;dr: You could definitely cheapshot Dumbledore with a carbomb.
