i dont want jannies to think this is some kind of troll post or that i am trying to create a political thread, but there is this long-time debate about how black people has influenced the creation and representation of orcs in media, from tolkien to baldurs gate, i have my own opinions about it but i think is an interesting theme of debate
>>98085076>i think is an interesting theme of debateYou are wrong.
I'm gonna need some real help seeing how black people are analogous to Tolkien's orcs. If you wanted to make it anti- any race, the industrious orcs would have to be white, and if not that, then Jewish. No other contemporary ethnic group would make sense for Tolkien to be alluding to
>>98085111i think tolkien knew perfectly about black people, he was a linguistic and is a a field of study that is deeply rooted in the development of civilization and its influences over each other, something you can see in his books
It's something that started as a joke, when this site still had some teeth, and some out-of-place retards took it personally.The "debate" was never necessary, because everyone used to be able to make jokes about everyone else.
>>98085076Tolkien orcs are just degenerate monsters. Warcraft orcs are Mongols with a hefty helping of "fantasy viking" aesthetics. Warhammer orcs are CAM ON INGERLAND savages.The only reason they're constantly compared to nogs is because they're stupid and violent with zero impulse control. Beyond that they have absolutely nothing in common.
>>98085111>Tolkien to be alluding toI've said it before, and I'll say it again.Orcs allude to a human condition, not any specific race.Ugly.Warlike.Malevolent.These adjectives were chosen by Tolkien himself to describe orcs in the definition he wrote for Oxford University. In his stories, orcs were a people fallen to corruption and the machinations of a terrible leader, and recency-bias makes it easy to attribute them to being Nazis fighting for Hitler, especially considering Tolkien fought in a war himself.His experience contributed to the darkness of his story's themes and the struggles of his characters, but was not direct allegory; he hated allegory.Throughout history there are examples of good, flourishing people being misled by an evil leader, a tyrant, one who would make his people fight or bend to his will on pain of death.The World Wars were some of the worst and furthest reaching wars in history, but they weren't our only wars.Did our resident /his/fags forget this? They know this better than I do.Tolkien isn't even an authority on the matter, he merely established a widely-accepted description of a fantasy race, his works were merely referenced with the inclusion of many D&D creatures, regardless of if his works are present on Appendix N or not. Even his orcs were inspired by something older, as his magic was inspired by older ideas, his characters inspired by older concepts. People celebrate him as "the father of fantasy", but he was just a great man who wrote great stories; he didn't invent drawing inspiration from one's life and imagination, from one's ideals and whimsy.The ideas of monsters, of an enemy that must be felled, of challenges that must be overcome, are as old as storytelling itself. Every experience, fear, philosophy, thought humans are capable of have manifested as conflict for stories."This long-time debate" is a joke.It began as a joke, because people used to be able to joke about everyone.
>>98085076No, it was twittershit>use Uruk-hai to mock immigrants>associate orcs with minorities>eventually just say orcs are blackOrcs can be any "noble savage" trope, mongol, viking, german, zulu, etc. As long as it goes with the "warrior culture" concept.
>>98085076Tolkien orcs have no relationship to africans or afro-americans, them being mongol-based, and quite clearly only for their looks. Unless you REALLY want to say that all his evil races are all the non-whites (some descriptions of the siege of Gondor have some vague correlation with turn of the century literature about savages with the orcs swarming and all that IIRC).But even then, you certainly have more luck with vaguely asian parallels... and more about humans.DND OG orcs are probably mostly faithful to Tolkien's, but even less specific linked to actual ethnicties. Honestly don't care much for the history of dnd in the last three decades, but I would be kinda surprised to see quotations about something specifically african about them.Warcraft before 3 had orcs as pretty generic heartless monsters, if it is curious that their buddies trolls were jamaican. From 3 we're talking noble-ish savages with a pretty generic shamanistic connection to nature.Warhammer is not my thing.tl;dr no, it's just that racists nowdays can't even find working racists literature ro rage on.
>>98085076orcs don't exist, they can be whatever you wantthey don't even really have a mythologic equivalent so go nuts with them
>>98085076"NO SON OF MINE WILL EVER TURN DOWN GENUINE ORCISH CUISINE! NOW EAT YOUR BLOODY TACO!
>>98085076there are parallels between orcs and niggers, but its not a 1-1I personally think gnolls are closer, especially the 4e depiction where they look like savannah-dwellers
>>98085076I’m gonna write a book here but I’m gonna try my best to be neutral. But I have a bias that may be obvious.The whole orc comparison to blacks most likely comes from racists using the whole savage monster thing of orcs from warhammer to Warcraft and other media where they’re muscular green fighting machines.Opposites of /pol/ just took offense and have been trying to fight it due to eternal rent free and will remove what makes orcs cool to spite their rent free boogeyman.Ironically enough the fighting of the portrayal dumbs down what makes orcs orcs and has been taken as an admission of validating right wing jokes that the archetypal orc=blacks.So from there the thing became a self serving and self consuming cycle of edgy lads and those reacting and those able to dumb down the quality of orcs into just muscular green Shreks in fighting it.People like orcs in the same way people like The Incredible Hulk when he is a savage green tornado of destruction in a big humanoid form. Not when he is just Shrek without the charm and accent of Shrek.Shrek is still amazing.I wouldn’t doubt that some libs have that internalized racism meme about them and looked at orcs and instantly thought they were blacks without any external influence to give them that idea. Arguably the worst kind of bigot is one who doesn’t know he is one and thinks he is fighting the good fight. When all he is doing is “unintentionally being a bigot.”If I remember my Tolkien right those orcs are meant to be a corruption of elves or humans where they have none of the good things elves and men have and only the terrible aspects.Anyways my opinion of orcs is that I want a sweaty savage big tall muscular green muscle mommy to tame with my cock.I am into monster girls.Justsomenoob makes nice muscular orc girl art when they lack cocks. I’m not into futa.Need more orc girl arts posted here.Can I have sauce on op pic?Reverse searches ain’t working. I blame ai.
>>98085076>from tolkienOrcs weren't stand ins for black people in tolkien>>98085191Uruk hai were the new rich and industrialists that ddidnt want beautiful and clean pre industrial landed gentry
>>98085076>i dont want jannies to think this is some kind of troll postIt is, stop pretending you fuckhead>there is this long-time debateIt's barely a couple of years old>how black people has influenced the creation and representation of orcsThats twitter retards who got called out by everyone.You want to know what inspired Tolkien orcs? Industrialization of BritainYou want to know what inspired modern Orcs? British hooligans from the '80s
Orks arent black people. This is a talking point made by gay race communists to sanitise and turn everything into a grey blob with no individuality because dont you know we are all the same and we can come together in John Lennons imagine.Unironically those faggots showed themselves to be worse racists then an honest racist. An honest racist will just call a black person a nigger and not be a coy slimy cunt and call them a fantasy creature
>>98085129Work on your bot replies, Gurjeep>>98085176Actual good answer, and I agree. I think trying to draw direct comparisons to real ethnic groups using the races of Middle-Earth is pretty retarded. I was humoring the topic of discussion and also curious to hear if anyone could do something with it that wasn't "well orcs are bad and violent, which is just like black people" (which as you and many others have noted is most often the internal racist clock ticking from lib "centrists" who suppress their tribalism without actually acknowledging it)
>>98085076HOT! Very Hot!source?
>>98085332This post is ridiculously correct in the second statement.What will it take for those who do that to learn?
>>98085298>I wouldn’t doubt that some libs have that internalized racism meme about them and looked at orcs and instantly thought they were blacks without any external influence to give them that idea. Arguably the worst kind of bigot is one who doesn’t know he is one and thinks he is fighting the good fight. When all he is doing is “unintentionally being a bigot.”I get the impresson that it's largely just performative outrage: gotta find something to be mad about, for the sake of impressing your peers with how much of an activist you're being (and saving yourself from the next round of purity spiral purges)
>>98085076>there is this long-time debateBecause you people keep making threads to talk about it. It's not interesting, it's boring.
>>98085488>>98085321>>98085347the fact that you guys are so triggered about this makes me think, i dont know why you people feel so afraid of something that is so obvious about the africanization of orcs, i never had twitter in my life nor i suscribe to left-leaning ideas, is just something obvious that seems too polemic to even shutter
>>98085347Why did you accuse a post of being a bot then say "good answer" to an incoherent AI post?
>>98085695
>>98085454That could be it too.I think even writings before jesus was born were all warning people about performative pretenders who try too hard to look good because they often turn out to be monsters.I’m not sure if a term has come out for this pattern.Was my whole orc thing minus revealing my fetish level at least tolerable?
>>98085076Unfortunately for the leftoids, Orcposting is their own golem, and they cannot reach the chem.They created a phenomenon that was a projection of their own covert racism, then tried to foist it off onto the usual suspect; the Chud.They saw "Always chaotic evil, violent cannibalistic marauder" and said "Yeah that's black people, and I'm mad about it" basically apropos to nothing.
>>98085076This discussion is never made in good faith. "Black people are orcs" is only ever a right wing gotchya attempt, or as always with those, a right wing mask-off moment>expansionist warmongers>led by a dark lord obsessed with control>wielding new and destructive tech and industries to reshape the political and ecological face of middle earth>somewhat unsubtley trying to send several races extinctTolkien was referencing the world wars, his orcs are transparently germans>>98085176>Ugly.>Warlike.>Malevolent.Germans
>>98085773>Extra Credits are right wingersNews to me.>GermansNot Russians? Did you not receive the NPC software update?
>>98085758>>98085773So which is correct on where this orcs=blacks come from?>orcs equal GermansI thought it was anglos and Tolkien was saying something about the empires?Kind of like War of the worlds about the British empire?War of the worlds Goliath is a bad movie but I loved it because I’m a sucker for dieselpunk.A shame he lewd parts for cut out and I can’t find them.
>>98085076>GW Players: Gee I sure am glad our greenskins aren't based on any racial stereotypes!>Forest goblins: Heya howa heya howa
>>98085806>I thought it wasOrcs are orcs. Lazy bastard writers making fantasy races out of real races with the serial numbers filed off hadn't been invented yet, and Tolkien in particular was against allegory.
>>98085813I see. >Tolkien against allegoryCan I be spoonfed proofs?Google seems to be choking on ai so it feels less effective these days.
>>98085820>I cordially dislike allegory in all its anifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/411971-i-cordially-dislike-allegory-in-all-its-manifestations-and-always
>>98085820The foreword to Fellowship of the Ring is quite explicit about it.
>>98085332>"No, left wingers are the REAL racist because no right winger has EVER done this conection!"I call bullshit
>>98085820I'll copy/paste it directly from the foreword of my ebook copy of LotR>As for any inner meaning or ‘message’, it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical. As the story grew it put down roots (into the past) and threw out unexpected branches: but its main theme was settled from the outset by the inevitable choice of the Ring as the link between it and The Hobbit.The crucial chapter, ‘The Shadow of the Past’, is one of the oldest parts of the tale. It was written long before the foreshadow of 1939 had yet become a threat of inevitable disaster, and from that point the story would have developed along essentially the same lines, if that disaster had been averted. Its sources are things long before in mind, or in some cases already written, and little or nothing in it was modified by the war that began in 1939 or its sequels.>The real war does not resemble the legendary war in its process or its conclusion. If it had inspired or directed the development of the legend, then certainly the Ring would have been seized and used against Sauron; he would not have been annihilated but enslaved, and Barad-dûen destroyed but occupied. Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth. In that conflict both sides would have held hobbits in hatred and contempt: they would not long have survived even as slaves.
>>98085835A. No, it's that left wingers are racists TOO and less funny.B. Grey blob theory is real, if your characters aren't the opposite of stereotypes to ridiculous degrees, people complain.The only way you have freedom is with grey blobs who can actually be allowed to be whatever you want.
>>98085129>he was a linguisticso he woudn't have that much insight into cultures that never did much writing
it's a bit hilarious in hindsight >the race know for wanton violence, low intelligence and generally accepted status as inherently evil is an obvious allegory for black people!
I blame Warcraft 3
>>98085806Well, Tolkien fought in World War One.But He was not really a hater of Germans.Orcs themselves have a mythological linguistic origin; they are cognate with the word "Orca" as in Killer Whale, which basically means "Sea Demon" in Old English, so in essence Orcs are fundamentally a kind of terrestrial demon, and not a metaphor for any group of people.
>>98085850Agreed with “A” it sucks that whenever called out they can’t comprehend being wrong ever.>b I tried to search it up and only got grey goo results.Can I be spoonfed the theory explained please?
>>98085845>>98085865Thanks lads!I see it now.Is Rings of Power just bad the way it is without culture war stuff?Is it so bad it is good?Or like marvel’s proposed new warriors so bad it insults the target audience it panders to and becomes inspirational?
>>98085876That's the whole thing. People are so uptight about identity that unless everyone in a story is a grey blob, somebody will be mad.
>>98085695...source?
>>98085820>Whorehouse bob, famous for his brothel patronage, writes of how he detests brothels in all their manifestations and would never write about them. Now buy his book about the best brothels in Brunswick.
>>98085806>I thought it was anglos and Tolkien was saying something about the empires?>Kind of like War of the worlds about the British empire?...why? Thematically LOTR has nothing to do with colonialism, and the whole thing is extremely anglophillic. Its like you havent even read it...>>98085820>>Tolkien against allegoryTolkien says a lot of things>this is and isnt a christian setting>this is and isnt the real actual earth>this journey westward into a wartorn foreign land is totally not about my personal experiencesAt a certain point you need to recognize that he's just saying shit to avoid contraversy. What he wrote is on the page, and the life experiences and motives he had for writing are well documented. You should form your own opinion about what he actually meant and referenced by the things he wrote, quoting shit said after the fact in interviews is as meaningful as "dumbledore is gay" twitter post rowlingisms
>>98086025This is correct, but unchecked it also leads to literally retarded and indefensible claims that don't even understand the timeline like>orcs=German
>>98086025I haven’t read it at all you are right. I forgot that Tolkien wanted it to be a myth for anglos.Sorry about the lapse in judgement.My dad read the hobbit and lotr to me as a bedtime story book when I was a very young kid though.>a certain point you need to recognize that he's just saying shit to avoid contraversy. What he wrote is on the page, and the life experiences and motives he had for writing are well documented.Fair enough. Admittedly my problem is that if anybody looks hard enough at fictional media it can be twisted to suit anyone’s political view if I’m being honest.>quoting shit said after the fact in interviews is as meaningful as "dumbledore is gay" twitter post rowlingismsFair enough.I agree with you.>dumbledore is gayOh man I remember when Rowling was being all progressive with that stuff back then and then it all blew up her face.During that era Harry Potter analogies were everywhere.Not sure if GoT had this phenomenon to even a comparable level if at all.Has that crowd that would do this gone for another fantasy book series?Which one?
>>98086025>>this is and isnt the real actual earthwhich is extremely annoying because it sabotages any attempt at classifying Middle Earth as high or low fantasy
>>98085850>If you notice my tiny veil caricature is because you're racistsDog whistles all around with you
>>98086051Dumb take. The real difference between high and low fantasy isn't if it AKSHUALLY is our planet, is if there is a mundane world in the picture. The Hyborian Age isn't less constructed than your usual dnd setting, nominal ice age nonwithstanding.Like, Poul Anderson's Broken Sword is presumably set on our Earth, but it's so out there that without some geographical names it could pass for both.Most isekais don't ever feature our Japan the MC comes from execpt from the intro, but when they do they cross into low fantasy territory.
>>98085111You're either a troll or a moron. Tolkien specifically said that the closest thing he had to Jews was the dwarves—specifically in that they were clever, industrious, warlike, and stateless. Orcs were essentially Cockneys, except they looked like deformed Asians. Again, Tolkien's words.>>98085145>Warcraft orcs are Mongols with a hefty helping of "fantasy viking" aesthetics. Warhammer orcs are CAM ON INGERLAND savages. Both of those took different elements from Tolkien's orcs. See above. >>98085298>>98085756>Was my whole orc thing minus revealing my fetish level at least tolerable?You could have been more charitable to [people I agree with] and less charitable to [people I disagree with], but I think you pretty much covered the entire debate to an extent that this entire thread is now pointless. But don't worry, /pol/ will keep posting anyway while completely ignoring you. With regards to the fetish, I wish you many tall brats to dom.
>>98085076Black analogue orcs are vandalism of european culture and the divisive weaponization of popular culture. Anyone who takes the idea seriously should probably be deported to canada for euthanization. Lets be real they probably believe in overpopulation and global warming as well so they should be made to live in compliance with their own values and first in line to be carbon reduced.
>>98086192Or the third third option: I'm just speaking speculatively because I don't really know what else the Orcs would represent. Not knowing the dwarf Jew lore doesn't make me a troll or a moron, it makes you the wielder of an extra factoidDon't assume everyone on the internet is your foe, and stop typing contentiously as if you're a 15 year old on Reddit. It's unbecoming at your age
>>98086173>if I don't take my meds I can see the TRUE NATURE of the world!!!!!!!!Are the dog whistles in the room with us right now?
>>98085076Orcs are Germanic, they are based on white people
>>98085145/thread
>>98085076>Orcs>Are industrious and quite capable of forming big organised societies, just not nice ones.>Nigs>Can't do any of that apart from forming disorganised chaos not nice to live inhmmm
>>98085145what about african tribalism? the socio-cultural aspect of the orcs are often based on shamanic rituals and estrangled clothing, i understeand that this is general for all cultures, but i feel like a good example of this would be orcs of the elder scrolls, that by example, can take many wifes and usually their daughters exist for the purpose of being cohesive with other tribes though marriage, this is a very specific african coded thing that is included in TES
>>98085076Traditional games??
>>98085879It's actually part of an ongoing cultural project that's basically a soviet deadman switch, operated by old KGB plants and the people they trained and groomed over generations, in the church, and the universities, and the media and the civil service.Believe it or not, the Communists used to be pretty devious.Turns out, most of the people McCarthy suspected of being communists who were "Vindicated" were later shown to be communists.Funny that.We're living in the mid-stage of their long-game project, which has been proceeding at a fair clip until this point.Is it any wonder they are so boisterous?But well, this is the boundary where the topic becomes /pol/ and there are no more orcs beyond this point, and I am too sleepy to do /pol/ right now.
>>98085695>f*llatrix
>>98085076>how black people has influenced the creation and representation of orcs in mediathey didnt.Lotr orcs represent people who get their kicks from war and industrialisation.The rest either copy that, are just green barbarian stereotype, or do the warhammer thing of being funny and dumb
>>98085076There never was a debate, there's only faggots shoehorning their entire personalities in the game because some fuckwit decided to call "dwarves" and "elves" "races", and coomers wanted half-elves.> Black PeopleHumans, different race, same base stats/natural abilities.> OrcsNot humans, different specie, different base stats, different natural abilities.> OrksNot even mammals.The fucking hobby, as a genre, gave diversity people everything they wanted out of the gate. All humans, not matter the origin, gender, w/e are the fucking same. But diversity is also a strength because halfling rogue, dwarf cleric, elf wizard, and half-orc paladin works better than 4 dwarves.But noooo. Now we have to make orcs also undistinguishable to fucking humans.
>>98085076Where's the fucking source OP you worthless piece of shit mobile poster.
>>98085076>i dont want jannies to think this is some kind of troll postXhe says, posting cropped tranny porn
>>98087027>people who evolved in different environments for so long they literally have had time to genetically change to adapt>same base stats/natural abilities.The cognitive dissonance is insane
>>98085076>Orcs are now Black AmericansOrcs should have stayed pigfaced. I hate these Critical role fan motherfuckers that insist on green 4 meter humans lmao
>>98087138>Orcs should have stayed pigfacedBecause Blacks have wide nostrils and will eat anything? Cool it with the racism, pal!
>>98085076I generally dislike "we need to make each race/subrace match onto a human identity" and I generally dislike "but also we need to make sure every party looks like downtown san francisco"I like it when the nonhuman races have a distinct look to them but one that is *inhuman* not one that is "ohhh, OK, I understand these are Native American Coded so it's OK for them to wear feathers"mostly I hate the performative desire to "always represent everyone and always do it Right"
>>98085176this. If anything it is the Easterlings that are an allergy for Asians such as Indians and Pakistani
>>98086040Well if you get the chance you should definitely give the books a go. So much of them gets overlooked by loretubers and fans just focusing on declarative events when the real soul of the story is in the experience of being small in a large world and far from home. That's what people denying the war connections are missing IMO>>98086051Fuck you you got me with that
>>98087108> -4 Str lololololI'm saying that TTRPGs disregard biological differences in-between sud-divisions of humans, not that there is none IRL. This has gotten so bad that we're perfectly fine with races of dwarves, elves, gnomes varying wildly amongst each others, to the point stat modifiers differ, but nope, not humans.So retards looking to be offended just pick other species (which are labeled "races") and paint them as stands in for basketball-americans, japanese, russian, w/e. And now that they got into the corporations linked to our hobbies, we get "peaceful mexican orcs".Gruumsh would spin in his tomb.
>>98085845>Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth.I always found this legitimately interesting as a concept, wherein Saruman with his Ring-lore research completes it and forges his own Great Ring/One.
>>98087491Plenty of rpgs have different stats between human races, they've just been purposely purged.The Elder Scrolls is probably the most popular example.
>>98085111I don't know why someone would even try to make it against blacks when the man himself writes>They are (or were) squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded andrepulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types.Like if you want to make it a racist thing he thought asians were the ugliest race. Not everything has to be about niggers.
>>98085864They were Vikings in that game, the trolls were the Jamaicans.
>>98086192>I wish you many tall brats to dom.Thank you anon.>>98087515The elder scrolls was a bit of a weird one but I wasn’t seeing culture war stuff back then.Funnily enough I always thought different race stats even among different human ethnicities have them an extra layer of character and their culture.Also curved swords.I think the fantasy racism in elder scrolls is gonna be erased sadly. It was funny seeing that one game journalist article title about how the bg3 fantasy racism supposedly hurt the author a lot.Then it had laughing elder scrolls elfs. Would love to see that pic but I don’t have it.I like to believe the article was just clickbait and the average person that would break from a fictional game is very rare. Like lottery winning rare and it is just performative weakness for lack of a better term?
>>98087526>The elder scrolls was a bit of a weird oneNo it's not. As I already said, plenty of RPGs had different stats for different races. This was extremely common.Stormbringer, Connan, Wilderlands of high fantasy out of the top of my head had those. Even the FRs had some minor human racial bonuses in 3rd edition.
>>98087515>>98087526Elder scrolls not only had different stats for human races it also had different ones for male and female. Though the last game that had stats was oblivion and that was already 20 years ago. In the remake they quite notably changed the male/female stat lines to be separate pick.
>>98085076Ironically not at all.Think about it, the iconic image of black people is closely linked with slavery.Meanwhile, orcs are a warrior race and a real threat. It's very, very rare to see orc slaves in a story, especially ones who were enslaved by the 'good guys'. And I seriously don't think black people were considered fearsome combatants at any point, while orcs are always a martial threat.
>>98085076>bait topic that's been done to death>says it's not bait>uses cropped porn image in OP and replies>calls ppl triggereddid your uncle rape you to be this retarded or are you born with it
>>98085076>Orcs are blacksThis has been discussed to death inthe past. this is strictly a /pol/ and woke argument for the purpose of furthering their ideology at the expense of hobbies, entertainemnt and whatever. you should know this by now, OP, we've been living in a culture war for the past 10 years and are currently living through the collapse of the Liberal World Order.I'm not complaining though, shit-libs are getting exactly what they deserve. They took away the bread and circuses that distracted from the agenda and now its all agenda, misery and suffering and now people are voting harder and pushing shitters out of office across the board.So, to speak of the topic of the thread: No. I don't believe Orcs are analogue for "Blacks".Orcs are an archetype of savage humanoid that typically live either in wastelands, savannah plains or mountains, occasionally forests but that's less seen these days. Typically Orcs are showcased having a tribal barbarian aesthetic in loin cloths at worse and Hunic Hordes at the best of times.I for one preffer basing Orcs on Mongolian themes with the exception of horses. Instead of being skilled mounted troops, they excel against mounted troops by taking advantage of their large frames and build to wield oversized weapons that are both great at cutting through conventional plate mail and horses. They would also use oversized bows using arrows large enough to fit in a standard ballista. This stems from the Orcs living in an area of the world where Megafauna are plentiful and dangerous, think Wholy Mammoths, Dinosaurs, Cave Bears, Megasloths, Dire Wolves, the works.That's how the Orcs are like on a very surface level in "Muh Setting".get bent, OP.>pic unrelated
I'm a gigantic racist but I never made the connection myself
>>98087630The main difference between orcs and black people are that orcs are generally mighty warriors while blacks don't really have any significant military achievements.
>>98087636>Missing the point entirelyyour ragebait is weak, pathetic and retarded.I don't compare Orcs to Blacks. If you read my post, its why I prefer to base them on Mongols, from Mongolia.You know what race I would use as an analogue to Blacks?None.Because most african societies have not managed to live long enough to contribute to the world in a significant manner ouside of the furthering of slavery as a trade. Which I object to. Slavery is bad for technological advancement.
>>98085076It hasn't, and anyone claiming otherwise is braindead. If you absolutely must claim that orcs are based on real people, it would be Turks or Eastern Europeans.Now move your retarded ass back to whatever shithole you spawned from, cunt.
>people unironically arguing ITTobviously if tolkien modeled orcs on black people they'd be way more evil and destructive
>>98085321Extra Credits made their infamous orc video five years ago, and the faggy social media whinging is older still.
>>98087515Care for a second example, TTRPG specifically? > D&D (every edition)> All D&D clones I know> All Star Wars TTRPGs> nWoD / oWoD and all subgames (E.G.:Hunter: the Vigil)> Silhouette Core and all derived games> Fragged Empires> Sentinels of the silver age> Blades in the Dark> All Warhammer products (Sisters of Battle are built like Imperial Guards, not Space Marines)> Scions> Shadowrun> Cyberpunk> Wushu> Firefly (Cortex)> Root: The TTRPG> That Marvel game with the Pokerchip> Fucking Call of Chtulu, despite HP Lovecraft
>>98085076>>98085111How can Orcs be African-American when they consistently show zero interest in oil or in supporting Israel's cause?
>>98087778Care to read?
>>98085076>>98085695>the africanization of orcsI was scrolling down to see if someone made this point yet, but you apparently mentioned it on accident. Orcs started out as a mixture between barbaric Mongols and (from Tolkien's perspective) industrious but philistine Germans, and this was mostly continued in AD&D's pig-faced orcs, except that their appearances were even further from humanity and closer to a generic evil other. It's only in the later incarnations of Orcs, which made them more similar to green-skinned humanoids, that they began to appear black in appearance and culture, since earlier they were too physically alien previously. The later more human-like orcs also dropped the "good at engineering but they only use it for evil" part, for obvious reasons. Even so, you can argue that 5e orcs (prior to the 5.5e retcon which removes them from the monster manual) are basically blacks cosplaying as pseudo-scandinavian berserkers.
>>98087778Not that anon, but Arduin had a weight/height table which used real races, although this was just for determining weight/height and did not affect base ability scores. Obviously a modern RPG would never do even just this, because leftism inherently despises simulationism, even if the simulationism does not carry a value judgement. A modern RPG would also not add a weight/height table for fictional races, for the same reason, and it would instead just ask you to draw a picture or commission an artist.
>>98087855Forgot to attach the image, just describing it verbally understates it. While I would rather have humans in an RPG setting be composed of fictional ethnicities, this is pretty good as well for adding detail.
>>98087778>> D&D (every edition)Nta but that's very wrong. Both ad&d and 3rd have racial adjustments for humans races in different setting books (Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms for sure). Probably other versions and settings too but I can't speak for those.
>>98087833>that they began to appear black in appearance and cultureIt would be extremely funny for Orcs to be known for making songs about how they Dindu nuff and about how sad they are that they had to uproot their lives and travel ten thousand miles to murder random people.
>>98087767That was on youtube and they were endlessly mocked. The "twitter discussion" resurfaced some years later
>>98085321>It's barely a couple of years oldWere you born yesterday? That shit's at least 10 years old and wotc started publicly communicating about it 6+ years ago
>>98087867Played AD&D in FR, and Baldur's Gate 1&2 as well as Neverwinter Nights, never saw those. And we even played with non-human level caps. Never heard of those. And I had powergaming friends who were fans of Thay, I suspected if something could have come up, it would have.You know, like TES for which it appeared in every computer game and the board game I played (betrayal of the second age?)
>>98087997Pretending that race is only skin color has resulted in a death spiral for creative expression.
>>98088016 >>98087867Also, were the differences biological, like a drow's darkvision vs. an elf's low-light?>>98087823Read all the rulebooks I greentexted, so yes?>>98087855Never played Arduin. No idea what it is. Would those actually come into play like FATAL's infamous circumference issue? Or is a max strength 5' 120 lb japanese woman as dangerous as a 6'4" 250lb scandinavian fella?
>>98085076>hey Orgga!!
>>98085865>Well, Tolkien fought in World War One.>But He was not really a hater of Germans.Orcs were elves that had been corrupted by the Dark Lord. They didn't represent Germans as a whole, but nazis.Elves and mages represented English academic world, Dwarves the English blue collars (before Thatcher, mining was extremely important in UK), while Hobbits represented English middle class and the farrmers, that were back then the spine of the country. Lord the Rings is both an allegory of the christian myth (Tolkien was in the same group as CS Lewis, who made his own allegory with Narnia), but at the same time of the WW2, with the shadow of Sauron corrupting the land as an allegory of nazism.
Imagine being stupid enough to think that race was invented.
>>98088038It’s just more proof that people hate whites, if they have to pretend that shit like xenophobia or prejudice were white (or Jewish) inventions. People are so blind to their own feelings.
>>98088016>gay ass little Timmy video game secondary yapping his gumsNot surprised.
Orcs have nothing to do with black people. Black people are the equivalent of black people in fantasy. That is who represents black people. Be it D&D, fantasy novels, the elder scrolls or similarly popular video games, and fantasy movies. In these things there are usually black people somewhere or another, and thus are the stand in for black people of our world.Not orcs, goblins, dark elves, or whatever other fantasy creature that some subversive retarded outsider is pretending to be offended by to gain power over a space they shouldn't be tolerated in.Hell, I still have fond memories of the first monk I played, which was a black karate dude inspired by Bruce Leroy.Seriously, you can just play a black guy. This discourse around fantasy creatures being representation of other races has always been bullshit.
>>98087491>> -4 Str lololololUnironically what's wrong with gendered statlines? Or do you just hate the idea of it because reddit told you to?
>>98086192Jews are not warlike tho. They aren't athletic enough for that.
>>98085695Why are you posting cropped tranny porn?
>>98090109They have been live streaming genocide for two years now and just started another.
>>98086611>the socio-cultural aspect of the orcs are often based on shamanic rituals and estrangled clothingYeah dude, no other culture has that. Look at depictions of orc shamans and ask yourself what their cultural inspiration is.
>>98085084Excellent
>>98085773>Lefties go on one of the latest crusades their TV told them to go on this week. This time, orcs are problematic and <Famous White Author> is actually racist and buzzword bad mean mean man>This one actually gets pushback, is unpopular and gets them called cringe and actually racist>"A-Actually it's the RIGHT who kept insisting orcs were actually minorities."Look I get your whole Blue Team religion is built on lying but could you not try the gaslighting thing on something that happened last year that we were all there for? Thanks.
>>98085309That and dehumanized soldiery and laborers.
>>98085695>>98085076>Mfw no futa orcifu to share love, loot, and big booty elf femboys with.
>>98090790lol you're gay
>>98090443And despite the technological advantage and backing of a massive empire they're still doing poorly
>>98085076>>98085361>>98085892>>98087046>>98085298Source is Fellatrix: https://x.com/FellatrixArt/status/1938816422093955229Same as this pic: >>98085695
>>98085076>Orcs are blacksI first noticed this kicking off when the Lord of the Rings film came out - some media critic complained about all the Uruk-Hai having dreadlocks. Cultural Appropiation was a buzz word in the media then. It just pops up occasionally since then, especially amonst Americans, as they seen obsessed about it for some reason.
>>98086718The Soviet Communists didn't even have any insight into their own society and couldn't meaningfully influence it to believe in Marxism, and Scion was pretty astute in calling the Chinese government just another legalist dynasty at this point. The US, and then the West, did this to itself.There is no conspiracy -- and that's the problem, we used to have many local conspiracies, the Masons and the Rotary Club and what-have-you, that were very effective in assimilating prospective elites into the local culture. The US has suffered from the fact that its university system was founded by a hyperconformist gerontocratic mutilation-loving evil cult for the primary purpose of making more evil cultists, all the way back in the 1600s, and let this spread into the education system as a whole, but the old system was effective at deradicalizing all the young Puritans into slightly older poker playing local notables, doctors and lawyers and what-have-you, so no critical mass of weird fucked up people ever built up. But then, oops, we had a baby boom and we started sending a disproportionate number of people to college on top of that, and we overwhelmed the capacity of that deradicalization system, at the same time as we also kept kneecapping the civic organization system by trying to get rid of one particular civic organization called the Kool Kids Klub.All of the "cultural project" is straightforwardly the result of this massive own goal, making the evil-cult-designed education system the only real organization of consequence that anyone participates in up until employment. Appropriate regurgitation is rewarded with Good Numbers and nonconformity punished with Bad Numbers, which characterize what grade of meat you are for your elders to consume. The bizarre tendencies like "Good Numbers are inherently the highest good and therefore Line Go Up is the foremost motivation for anything" all come out of this.
>>98092163It's a shame that the internet gives you people a forum when you should be left babbling on a street corner.
The reality is that orcs get associated to black people the same way the goblins of Harry Potter are associated with jews: because they share traits.That's really it.Then something happened, that is the something that happens every time things go to shit and get worse: normalfags noticed it.Since for normalfags reality is an evil evil thing and noticing thing = bad, what they did was scream to the four winds that black people are not like orcs.They had to go into detail that black people were not orcs, jews were not dwarves/goblins and other crap like that, because any sort of association was bad so they had to point out the obvious association unprompted.However, the more they said it, the less they believed it, so instead they started pussifying such themes.The orcs now weren't savages tribals, the central enemy of many stories, they are NOBLE savages, with lots of traditions and you can respect them! See, it was human propaganda that made them seem evil!Goblins aren't evil either, they're quirky little gremlings that they're so clever and funny and so good at making contraptions!Drows are not inherently evil either! Just because someone has dark skin and love spiders and was written as slavers and live in a matriarcal society doesn't mean they are utter terribly evil!Anything in fantasy can be like anything in real life, because coincidences happen, obviously you can't generalize entire group of peoples but you can notice trends and that makes normalfags uncomfortable.They go their entire life trying not to notice, to keep their head down, to just be cattle, that's why anything aimed at a "wider audience" (aka normalfags) always goes to shit, because you can't have an edge anymore.By the way something having an edge isn't necessarily true, it's the edge itself that most people can't handle, you could say something extremely edgy and 100% provably false and it could still be funny.tl;drNormalfags are uncomfortable with controversial topics
>>98092397>The reality is that orcs get associated to black people the same way the goblins of Harry Potter are associated with jews: because they share traits.*with stereotypes of those races
>>98085076if tolkien intended orcs to be africans, then he wouldn't have made them a major industrial powerif they exist as a representation of anything in reality, it would be as a personficiation of industrialized warfarethis non-debate only exists because performative activists need something to be mad about/thread
>>98092086Thank you anon.I am disappointed but I applaud you knowing the sauce.
