How would you have Tolkien-esque orcs reproduce in your setting?It kinda ruins their theme when they have females who take care of their young (and relying on raping other races is not really logistically feasible).
>>98085645Same way he did it, by having the orc women and children not be part of the plot? We only see soldiers and military bases, not actual orc settlements where families are raised and orc-laborers farm and craft and stuff.
I don't have orcs in my setting.
>>98085673Yes you do. Every single one in every single country is fed and clothed by human taxpayers.
>>98085659what if your story focuses more on the orcs, how they are bred by their evil overlord, stuff like that?
>>98085645>It kinda ruins their themeWhat do you mean? Tolkien himself was not completely against the idea of them being another race with family units. But he was also aware that isn't an excuse to don't kill them when they're attacking you. If you really need a villain to be basically an evil blob born from the ether otherwise is not actually evil enough you should reconsider your worldbuilding.
>>98085645Sorcerous pits from an evil wizard or some shit is a great option. The orcs can turn people into orcs,create orcs from some vile alchemical process.In my current game I have goblins (akin to tolkien orcs) reproduce in a disgusting way where if they eat meat, especially that of sentient creatures, their scat becomes fertile and they put it all into a pit and new goblins emerge from the filth.
>>98085645They reproduce by defiling corpses with dark magic
>>98085645Orcs stop being orcs when they get kids and females and any sort of organized society beyond barbaric war industry and "cohesion". Tolkien knew this and made them sprout out of the earth through weird unnatural processes that require evil industry, Warhammer also did the right thing making them fungi that grow through violence. Orcs who are just a savage war-addicted species capable of any meaningful higher thought are just a lamer faggy version of human barbarian nations. It reads like cheap fanfiction as a stand-in for the real life world with the laziest bare bones coat of paint
>>98085645>It kinda ruins their theme when they have females who take care of their youngNever read anything about Australian aboriginals and how they raise their children, have you?
>>98085761This anon gets it.
>>98085685>>98085765>da wotc libruls are the real racists for making orcs minorities!>immediately and without prompting conflate orcs with niggerswhat did /pol/ mean by this?
Why did Tolkien hate the Working Class so much?
I don't know, they're evil manifestations of darkest magicks given material form. Once the dark wizard king is vanquished, they'll just become as dust and go away. Your captive audience (players) doesn't have enough time in the day to be concerned about the agrarian practices of orcish women folk.
Anyone who hates hobbits can't be all bad.
>>98085776Do you get confused without usernames and karma ratings to tell you who's saying which opinion or are you just naturally stupid?
>>98085777He didn't. See Sam Gamgee and the hobbits in general.
>>98085645it doesn't, kill yourself.
>>98085761>Tolkien knew this and made them sprout out of the earth through weird unnatural processes>>98085645>kinda ruins their theme when they have females who take care of their youngI genuinely can't tell if everybody here is a retarded zoomer or if everybody is aware orcs had women and children in LotR and just playing along by pretending they only watched the movies with the breeding pits.I hate nu-/tg/
>>98085777>>98085807He didn't view all of working class with the same lenses, he cherished loayal household staff - butlers, gardeners and so on. And small entreprises like family bakeries. That's what Hobbiton is all about. But he also despised industrial workers and industrialism in general (in part because he blamed it for enabling world war 1).
>>98086004Tolkien has very old fashiond victorian view on the whole question of how do they reproduce. That is "they just do, and we do not talk about the details".
>>98086014He did talk about their breeding, anon.
>>98085645My setting is the Conan novels meets Thundarr the Barbarian meets Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light. No Orcs, just Beastmen who were originally genetically created by the forebearer refugees from Earth.
>>98086004you lack reading comprehension
>>98086014>very old fashiond victorian view on the whole question of how do they reproduce.Victorians talked a lot about breeding of the lessee races, just not in direct sexual terms.
>>98086038No, but you do and you're a nigger.
>No, but you do and you're a nigger.
I like how D6 Fantasy bestiary's implied setting does evil races (orcs, goblins ogres and such). They can be created through dark sorcery from other sentient races, living ones or from corpses. They can further reproduce through the old fashioned rape, but they are primarily created through magic. They are usually ruled over by evil wizards and such who control them by giving them outlets for their murder and rape urges that suit the evil ruler's needs.
>>98085645The Munby letter explicitly talks about female orcs. Not that this was in any way news when it surfaced to people who actually read his books, of course: it was all but spelled out with Azog being a father and arguably Aragorn talking about cross-breeding.The most charitable view you can take is that people took on Treebeard having "never heard of female orcs" and then selectively used that as a proof.>>98086004/tg/ was always pretty dense and at times shallow. Tolkien being "out-canoned" by those relatively silly movies isn't a particulary strange phenomenon in nerdlore (he's always been taken as if he was somehow encyclopedic and clear cut about ME's inner workings, for some dumb reasons, after all).What I think has gone to worse is the degree of security people invest in their half-heard, half-imagined beliefs about shit they don't research or read with a modicum of attention. Basically, what is called being a secondary, I guess, but REALLY sure about bullshit on what they don't care or love.Not sure what is to blame, really, maybe chatobots fueling egos.
>>98085645They crawl up fully formed out of places that have seen a lot of bloodshed. And they're not orcs.
>>98085645How did you do it in your latest /Traditional games/ session? You do play /Traditional games/ am I right?
>>98085645I don't have orcs on my settings, I have goblins tho (they aren't very relevant) and I kinda copied the WoW goblins
>>98085645a-sexual reproduction, no women required
>>98085645Hmm...Corruption.Tolkien-like Orcs would create moeof themselves by kidnapping anyone they get their hands on while raiding for supplies. what happens to these captives is simple.>First, they get worked to the bone, no food, dirty water, until near death>When they are on the verge of dying, they are force fed a disgusting and dark swill which will serve as the catalyst for the next step>They get shoved in an alcove and locked in there so that the process of mutation happens>at the end, you have an Orc>The kind of Orc depends on the kind of catalyst they were given, decided by what the Warchief has need of at the time.>the swill is made by Orc Alchemists, taught onto them by their Dark God through vision quests>On occasion, the Dark God teach Necromancers a new variant of The Swill for a new kind of Orc their evil patron has create for his children, a new kind of sibbling.
>>98085761>made them sprout out of the earth through weird unnatural processes that require evil industryWasn't that just the movies, and only for uruks. It wouldn't make sense for goblins or mordor orks anyway and they've been around longer.They were originally created by morgoth torturing and twisting elves gorrilion years ago but I'm pretty sure they've just been a self-sustaining race ever since. It's just sort of glossed over, just like the fact that uruk hai are less degen because they have a more recent admixture of human blood and the implications how that happened.
>>98085645Why would I include someone else's thing in my fully custom setting?I don't even have orcs in my setting. Like not even something similar to orcs.
>>98085645Tolkien's orcs were named after the use of Orc in Beowulf to refer to "demon-corpses", so orcs could be immortal constructs created from corpses, either through fleshcrafting or by summoning a demon into them which alters the host to match what it is posessed by. Dwarf Fortress already treats goblins this way, and the term Boldog was used by Tolkien to refer to Maiar that took the forms of orcs. Although Tolkien also stated that orcs reproduced in the same way as men.
>>98085645> Cast her in the pit of shame!*Sound of hungry wolves getting slaughtered.*> She is truly my son.
There's really no problem with there being female orcs. Just make them indistinguishable from the males, it's not like you'll be devoting much thought to the logistics of their gross orc sex and their gross orc babies anyway.>but I want to devote thought to that!Then do that far away from me and my table.
>>98085645>Orcs are just corrupted members of other races. You aren't born an orc, you become one.>Orcs don't die of old age. A limited number came into being a long time ago, and there aren't going to be any more. Once they're all killed off, the forces of evil are SOL. Good thing there's still a shitload of the fuckers.>Orcs are just meat puppets operated by the spirit of the dark lord.>Orcs are modified animals. They're born as piglets or whatever, and then they get the Dr. Moreau treatment.>When membes of other races are exposed to some kind of curse or contamination, there's a chance that their children will be born as Orcs. They look and act normal at first, but they'll eventually turn green and run off to join the forces of darkness.>Goblinoids are eusocial, like ants. Orcs are the warrior caste, standard goblins are workers, etc.; unless you run into a drone, you've probably only seen females of the species, and somewhere undeground there's a big old queen who's constantly pumping more and more of them out.>Orcs aren't real. They're just regular guys in really convincing masks.
>>98085645Since orcs are corrupted elves why not make their breeding just as vile? Where most humanoids have normal consensual sex, orcs usually just force themselves on their mate, this could also be seen as courting ritual. Their pregnancy is short usually birthing multiple babies, but they aren't really taken care of, or they could be treated harshly. Now there can always be out liners, some orcs don't rape their mate, preferring to court them in the the more normal way, and so not all orc babies are abused, some of them are taken care of. You know just show that despite their corruption there is still some nobility in them.
Orcs were created by dark magic from the flesh of the living, a kind of horrid reanimation. They are living beings, not undead, but they are still made from the freshly dead. This is why orcs tend to swarm in such huge numbers: much like a zombie swarm their number swell with each victory. You can even create an orc from the dead body of an orc, though doing so tends to make them even more twisted and misshapen, eventually resulting in truly wretched mutants. The only limiting factor really is that the corpse needs to be relatively intact. A sufficiently mangled corpse isn't worth turning into an orc, because the resulting orc would be too crippled by their malformed body to do anything useful. The only good news is that the ritual needs to be performed on each individual body, so at least the process for making new orcs isn't automatic or quick. As you can imagine, this nature of orcs makes fighting them doubly horrifying. Not only are you fighting for your life, but if you perish in battle against them you have to HOPE they eat you because otherwise they might revive you to grow their ranks. Orcs do not retain the personalities of the men they once were, but they do retain some of the memories. Sometimes even skills. No one can say for sure how much of the person they was remains within the vile body of the orc, twisted or trapped by dark magic, but many consider it a fate worse than death.
>>98085645fucking virgin women
>>98086074Go to >>>/soc/ to post selfies.
>>98085691This board is for playing games anon.
>>98085645I liked the idea of orcs and goblins being mass produced in pits of evil magic. Being bioweapons for evil wizards is great.
>>98085645>It kinda ruins their theme when they have females who take care of their youngNot all species have females that take care of their young. Maybe orcs are born almost fully developed and grow quickly.
>>98085645You know, you could have evil mothers who basically rape and beat their children senselessly, or us them as slave labour until they grow up, right?
>>98085645>It kinda ruins their theme when they have females who take care of their young (and relying on raping other races is not really logistically feasible)Tolkien said orcs reproduce via evil human men, the kind of men who worshipped Melkor back in the day and worships Sauron during the times of LotR, that kind of man fucks orc women and then abandons the hybrid offspring I guess. Tolkien said bad evil violent people today have Orc blood in them, evil human men reproduced with orc women so much hybrid children gradually took on a more and more human appearance, though the bad character of orcs still shows up in their evil violent behavior.Why did evil human men have sex and reproduce with orc women? Because they are evil, beastly and worship evil things, duh. Tolkien said so about the humans who worship Melkor and Sauron.
>>98090433Source: Morgoth's Ringhttps://b3.ewinerysolutions.com/assets/client/File/morgoths_ring.pdf>“Doubtless Morgoth, since he can make no living thing, bred Orcs from various kinds of Men, but the Drúedain must have escaped his Shadow; for their laughter and the laughter of Orcs are as different as is the light of Aman from the darkness of Angband.”>“This then, as it may appear, was my father’s final view of the question: Orcs were bred from Men, and if ‘the conception in mind of the Orcs may go far back into the night of Melkor’s thought’ it was Sauron who, during the ages of Melkor’s captivity in Aman, brought into being the black armies that were available to his master when he returned.”As we all know, all humans worshipped Melkor at some point, so no problem finding men depraved enough to create disposable offspring for their evil lord.>It kinda ruins their theme when they have females who take care of their youngWhat makes you think orc women take care of their young and don't just hate and resent their offspring which evil human men clearly aren't raising? Or if you really want there to be a family, what makes you think orc women aren't raising their offspring in an evil way because that's what evil Melkor-worshipping men and women do with their own evil human offspring?
>>98090433I think one of his other theories/ideas was that "and orcs multplied after the fashion of men".I.e. they fucked.However, without an Evil Overlord (Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman, The Witch King et.c.) to make them force breed they seem to rarely grow in numbers larger than tribes here and there.Gundabad might be the one exception. Unsure who/what was in charge of that place.
>>98085645Well, I'm not a sexually frustrated teenage boy full of angst. So I'd have them reproduce the same way other animals like human beings do. They doink, make babies, and raise 'em.
>>98090500one last note>but orcs get slaughteredYes, so do evil humans who worship Melkor first and Sauron later. The Edain and their descendants in the later ages wage constant war against the ugly, beastly, inferior, evil human people of the South and the East. Tuor iirc goes on a personal terrorism campaign against the evil Easterlings that had killed his mother. I don't see people crying over humans killing other humans.
>>98090516Not just after the fashion of men, specifically with evil men because it breeds stronger individuals. Saruman does this too, the Uruk-Hai are stronger than other orcs because they are a fresh batch or Man-Orc breed.
>>98090536I wonder, would having a willing evil human mother create a strong breed or is having a human father required to make breeds of orcs stronger? It's weird how the process is described as using specifically depraved human males to create better orcs.
>>98090520There are plenty of humans who don't raise their babies. Deadbeat fathers, women who abandon their kids at birth.
>>98085645Orc babies come out fighting? They arnt helpess like human babies, they don't need to be reared by a kindly mother, they are spawned out in large groups and are vicious little fuckers from the go. They are treated as vermin or food by larger greenskins, the fastest and strongest getting bigger and cleverer as they grow, eating the weak and fighting off or enslaving their rival siblings, until they carve a place for themselves in orc society. Maybe also do it that all greenskins are one species that just hate anything smaller and weaker than themselves, just classed as different species by humans by size? Snotlings>Goblins:Hobgoblins>Orcs>Black Orcs>Bugbears>Ogres etc, all being the same species but being different stages in their brutal life cycle?
>>98090536Nah. Sauron started up the Uruk-Hai.They're the troops who spearheaded the sack of Osgiliath.Treebeard thinks the Urk-Hai were mixed with humans, but he's just guessing.Half-orcs were separate, much rarer and Saruman's own invention.
>>98090588Sure, but I dunno what your comment has to do with not reproducing through sexual procreation. And trying to create a species that doesn't procreate through sexual reproduction because it "ruins their theme" reeks of frustrated and pathetic immaturity and mommy issues.
>>98090600Sexual reproduction isn't what hurts the theme, OP thinks sexual reproduction = caring which is the most stupid and demented idea ever. Even leaving beasts aside, humans abuse their offspring, humans rape their offspring, humans neglect their offspring, humans abandon their offspring to get raped abused and killed. That's what makes OP's post demented. Orc mothers can be shitty evil horrible abusive mothers just like human mothers.
>>98090609Still dunno what your posts have to do with anything I've said, but get down w/ your bad self.
>>98090595You got the names and actions wrong, your post is stupid.
>>98090618You've said you would have Tolkien-esque orcs raise their kids. Unless you mean raise them the way meth addicts "raise" their kids, there's very little raising done if you want to be Tolkien-esque.
>>98090631Raise them the way my neighbor raised his kids>you're making noise, I'm getting the belt and beating the shit out of you you little shit
>>98087651>Orcs are produced by an obscene drink>Basically Gin Alley but with actual monstersThematically aligned. I approve.
>>98085761>Tolkien knew this and made them sprout out of the earth through weird unnatural processes that require evil industry,Not canonical, that was only in the movie.Canonically they were descender from elves taken as slaves by Morgoth.
>>98090645No, he went back on that. In the end he decided they are descendants of particularly depraved men who willlingly degraded themselves to worship Melkor.
>>98090652Makes sense why they are irredeemably evil, it's in their genes.
>>98090631I guess child abuse and child neglect are part of raising if your culture thrives that way. I bet orcs do not oppose genital mutilation, child beating, wife beating, and honor killing.
>>98090695Orcs however do not believe in marital rape because the female is the responsibility and property of the male, you can't rape your property. A misbehaving female can be dealt with in a variety of ways, the male can legally beat her, restrain her, confine her, and if necessary honor kill her, it's his right to deal with his property as he sees fit. Females have the duty to birth and raise (keep alive) the male's offspring until the offspring is old enough for the male to take over education, usually around 7 years of age. Military education is the standard for males, females aren't worth educating. Orc fathers can unilaterally marry/sell off orc daughters once said daughters are six year old, the groom/buyer can be an adult male of any age. The contract is valid as long as the young female's father approves.
>>98090621Blow me, nigger.
>>98090770What an orc-minded thing to say.
>>98090761Also, note that orcs do not discriminate on profit. If a human pedophile wants to buy a young female and has the means to do so, there is a good chance the orc father will approve.
>>98085645Just follow the movies, have angry ugly motherfuckers pop out the ground
>>98090761Based. Why don't we have orc settings like that?
>>98085645Have orcs be born being more capable than humans are, same as horses are born able to walk and run.Only the largest of orc offspring are breastfed and that is not done out of any maturnal instinct but rather because producing large children makes one an object of desire among the larger adult orcs. Middling and undersized orclings simply follow the camp around and fight each other for scraps till about the age of eight when they are expected to do the menial activities that the female orcs are forced to do. By the age of 13(about half of which survive to) a male orc is near full grown and will join his fellows in raids and in bullying the children and female folk to do whatever the chief expects the camp to do. This bullying is always a combination of violence, rape, and cannibalism.Why overcomplicate things. Just treat them as craven violent animals with only the enough intelligence to understand what a weapon is and that using one is more effective that biting everyone you see.>is than an analogue for [enthic group]Orcs are animalistic. Racists like to call other races animalistic. If you fell for the propaganda then that's on you.
>>98085685>Yes you do.No. They're boring and there are better monsters out there.>forced culture war shit schizo rambleDon't care.
>>98085807Hobbits just feel like rich British people in their summer homes
>>98091331Why bother with the projection when you are wrong? Just say fag and shield your ego away and move on.
>>98090695>>98090761The problem with this line of thinking is that it portrays orc females/children as victim, so good guys look bad when they exterminate them
>>98090847but it feels thematically strange. Makes them feel more insect like.I believe that Tolkiens orc occupy this unique niche where they combine all the bad personality traits in humans, but are still distinctly human in nature.
>>98091127such interpretation of orcs would feel more like animals/apemen than corrupted humans
>>98092381nah, settle down
>>98092589Orc females approve and are instrumental for the propagation of orc culture. Orc females believe in beating disobededient children, and will happily do so, though beating to the point of death needs the approval of the male. Starvation, beatings and confinement are socially approved parenting methods as they are the only ones effective with unruly orc children. An adult male (man or orc doesn't matter) raping a young female is normal, the little slut would just go have sex with animals anyway if left to her devices. Orc females know this and consider the other female the guilty party always, openly mocking her while secretly wishing they could do all the bestial acts themselves, the hypocrites. All misguided, bleeding heart humans who attempt to raise orc children without adopting the orc parenting ways of violence and oppression end up getting stabbed and left to bleed to death.
>>98092589Not at all. Just have a few liberal-type idiots get brutally raped and killed when they stupidly attempt to treat orc children like normal humans.
>>98093130too on the nose
>>98093441If anyone complains, tell them they are the ones making unsavory connections and kick them out of the group for being a bad person.
>>98085645Make them 'reproduce' with dark magic. In truth, these aren't even male orcs but simply sexless homunculus with an approximation of a mind (they are philosophical zombies) with baked in bad attitude and necessary skills to warmong from birth. Humans just incorrectly assume all orcs are male.
>>98093528Likewise, the idea of 'orc rape' is a myth and born of human assumptions plus ideas repeated so much by humans that people take it at face value. Orcs do not rape, as they have no dicks (only a crude cloaca-like hole) and no sexual urge. In truth, the reason orcs kidnap beautiful women and pure virgins is born of their twisted and evil nature, they love to destroy all things which human (and similar beings) hold dear. They will torture, humiliate, mutilate and eat beautiful women and children. Humans, however, incorrectly made the assumption that beautiful women taken by orcs never seen again are raped as sex slaves.Honestly, the torture they endure is just as bad but humans, who think in sexual terms, make incorrect guesses and assume orcs behave in ways similar to common bandits and barbarians but nope!
>>98093441Why? It works for Goblin Slayer. Human women (and men) who are stupid enough to think goblins can be saved, get rightfully raped and tortured to death by goblins. Substitute goblins with orcs and your heroes can still do the noble thing and rescue the stupid idiots.
>>98093635There can also be a moral dillemma in the hero group. The pure, idealistic type can argue the human women deserve rescuing no matter what. The pragmatic, rational type can argue they should pay for the sins, karma is a bitch, fuck around and find out, Darwin award winners and so on and vote against rescuing the stupid idiots. You decide who wins out.
One issue with orcs nowadays is that if you want modern-style 'not actually evil, just people' orcs then you need to do more research into various historical cultures in order to properly realize a culture that value strength or bloodshed in a way that invariably put them at odds with other races and their different cultures. Intelligent, non evil orcs still need to feel like orcs and not pussified big green uwu humans. Make them more like Aztecs meet Assyrians, Mongols and whatever hodge podge of war-like cultures.Even at their most peaceful or good they should worship might and violence. For example if your setting has orcs of any alignment, you COULD do Good Orcs who worship gods of good and light and all that yaddi yadda...but the way they worship them and organized their culture would be extremely war-like compared to humans. You want orc Paladins? Sure, have them but understand you need to portray these orcs as basically a culture of war-like gigachad green skinned crusaders. The orc archetype is inherently tied conceptually to violence and other-ness, so even orc cultures more integrated in the politics of other races would always be the token warriors, the crusaders or at their most peaceful the rowdy people.
Said it before, will likely say it again.Best source of inspiration for Orcs is G K Chesterton's "Ballad of the White Horse", which is a how to guide on running an epic fantasy.It's also free online.
>>98093702In my setting, orcs alive today are the descendants of victims of heavy persecution. Orcs were persecuted due to being unable to assimilate fully into human civilization. A group of human advocates convinced most human nations to stop oppressing orcs, and give the orc people a homeland of their own. You should know that orcs have a very orc-centric culture; this allowed them to survive civilizations but also impeded their assimilation into human cultures, causing endless conflict among humans and orcs. New conflict arises when an undefined race of creatures, already living in what is now orc homeland, finds it difficult to assimilate into orchood due to said orc-centric culture. Human advocates justify increasingly violent and evil orc actions out of guilt for past persecution, however some human voices are starting to point out the irredeemable evil nature of orcs as the conflict deepens and orcs proudly, happily perpetrate ethnic cleansing, rape, and genocide onto the other people.
>>98085645The dead given life. You get to live if you let go of any good in your soul.
>>98087670Um ackshully "Uruk" just means Orc. Uruk hai doesn't mean half-Orc it literally means "Orc folk" and is a term for any Orc that is especially big and mean. All of Saruman's hybrids were Uruk-hai but not all Uruk-hai are half-Orcs.
>>98093635goblin slayer is shit and everyone who likes it is stupid
