>>98091556
Please tell me that's not official art.

>>98091824
The running girl is obviously edited in, but it's from the Essence ST Guide backerkit.

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>>98091556
It's crazy how sauceless this style of digital art is.
1e completely mogs it.
Like this piece for example it's cartoonish but you also feel the energy and power of a shining solar anima and the fear that it inspires in people.

>>98091884
They are going to a 3rd world art house because rich needs another car.

>>98091891
Doesn't Rich owe money to the mob?

>>98091556
>>98091884
>It's crazy how sauceless this style of digital art is.
Looks like some Chinese Hearthstone or Fortnite ripoff. The picture in OP, I mean, not the one you posted.

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>>98091905
This is what a Chinese lol rip-off looks like.

>>98091556
What even is the art direction of 3e?
A even shittier version of Overwatch and WoW style Jizzardart?!
Why did they make the choice to move away from anime styles when zoomers are more into anime than ever and shounen slop like jjk is massively popular?
Did they want to limit new players influx into strictly D&D 5e players?
Who the fuck is onyx path run by and did they shut themselves in a basement after 2005?

>>98092002
They're not consciously deciding anything about the artstyle. The nepo faggot retards they hired are just this incompetent, this is genuinely the best they can do.

>>98092009
Yeah, it's even worse when some of the art is genuinely good and the next page is just deviantart level dogshit
Anime style isn't even hard to do
There are millions of out of work artists that would exclusively draw high quality anime shit for literal pennies + the promise of steady employment and they chose the most ass motherfuckers in the industry to draw the art

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>>98091949
Thats some splash art they put on promos, the type of shit you would see in game would be this generic.

>>98092002
>What even is the art direction of 3e?
Whatever the artist will do for as cheap as possible. If you want to point at any one intention it would be the 3e Cast Marks and... I want to say this looks like water color art but I am not sure.

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>>98092046
bruh

Been thinking Stupid Crossover Thoughts again, and I'm pretty sure Summoning a JJBA-type Stand would be a Charm version of Summoning Sorcery.
Since a Stand isn't an External Spirit/God/Elemental/Whatever and is actually made from your own Essence.

>>98092216
Just feels like a stunt for a ranged attsck martial art Charm. Probably a permanent one that lets you punch people with your anima

>>98092216
You could make a stand using the Twilight ability from Essence or using the ExWoD Revised Familiar rules that allow you to take a creature from Bygone Beastiary. Besides that, you could use some Infernal bullshit, but I really don't know how to use them.

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>>98092263
I would love fanart of the greatest solar GOAT Lyta.

>>98092263
I want to go full misogyny on her

>>98092263
Author?

>>98092216
>Been thinking Stupid Crossover Thoughts again, and I'm pretty sure Summoning a JJBA-type Stand would be a Charm version of Summoning Sorcery.
>Since a Stand isn't an External Spirit/God/Elemental/Whatever and is actually made from your own Essence.
The literal name of a Stand in kanji was Ghostly Ripple / Yuhamon, as a counterpoint to the Ripple / Hamon from earlier parts. It's a manifestation of your life energy / spiritual energy.

In Exalted, we can get very close to what Stands look like and act like (fighting ghosts with super powers attached to a mortal who energizes them) with ghosts having a close permanent connection with people they've possessed. You can get much closer with homebrew, using Arcanoi and ghostly artifacts make up their special powers, and ghosts who want to act as Stands developing a specific branch of Arcanoi they use to exploit a closer connection with a particular mortal - perhaps offering the mortal power over them in return for a cheaper Materialize power, a damage sharing ability that lets them be more durable by splitting damage between them, or a sheer increase in power that relies on close proximity and telepathic 'teamwork' with their chosen mortal.

On the mortals side, being a Stand User could also be a martial art designed to enable/enhance a ghost they have a connection with, letting them pass over motes or give the ghost something like Excellency dice. Throne Shadow Style is already very close to being exactly this kind of Style, and if you wanted a pure canon Stand User you could make a very good attempt at it with a Throne Shadow Stylist (or Survival charm user for Abyssals/Solars) with a charm that manifests ghosts and a Retainer/Familiar ghost who does the punching for them in combat and maybe has a special trick up their sleeve too.

>>98092459
Seat_Admiral aka artchad. He's posting a new Exalted story on SB/QQ. It's a guy getting reincarnated in another world (Creation) then picking up sorcery and going out to do hero stuff exploiting their metaknowledge along the way. So far he's been hitting up canon ruins to do Scavenger Lord stuff and fuck lonely Lunars mostly.

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slam this dynast

>>98092536
Seeing Mnemon without her spiky tiara thing is just weird.

>>98092334
I want to give her a job she's actually good at. Being pushed to a military career when her inclinations and aptitudes would obviously be elsewhere is the biggest problem. She'd probably be a selfish, ruthless bitch anyways, but it's not like there's a shortage of roles in the Realm where a ruthless socialite could actually be useful.

>>98092561
>it's not like there's a shortage of roles in the Realm where a ruthless socialite could actually be useful.
Yeah, but she's incompetent in a way that would see the Thousand Scales chewing her up and spitting her into a shallow grave. Sending her to the Immaculates cuts off the bloodline and she's got decent Breeding iirc. She's basically stuck with Housework, but it's not like Tepet want a toxic power climber from the ruined Legions fucking things up at home, so the best place for her is to be sent to drive some godawful province in the middle of nowhere into the dirt and hopefully marry someone useful.

>>98092576
Just use her as a spy or spymistress or something. Give her some House-owned business to nominally run, but mostly just have her seduce people from other Houses and pump them for information. Turn her spite on others instead of her own House and it'll be fine. Probably.

>>98092625
>but mostly just have her seduce people from other Houses and pump them for information
it would even feed her ego about how men are stupid and weak to seduction can't wait to impregnate her with a few beastbabies

>>98092560
Brosef/Seat_Admiral has a hard-on for helmets.

>>98092706
>Brosef/Seat_Admiral has a hard-on for helmets.
I mean yeah I don't blame him, helmets are cool. It's just strange that the helmet doesn't have spikes on, or something else that's evocative of her old tiara, since it's such a unique and attention-drawing part of Mnemon's silhouette. The helmet she is pictured with has a feature those kinds of spikes would go onto easily, and it's not like upward spikes are weird to see or ineffective on a helmet. Without them you could be forgiven for mixing her up with Ariana at a glance.

>>98092560
It's like what Kamiya said about Bayonetta, she looks naked without the tiara

>>98092002
>What even is the art direction of 3e?
Nepotism.

>>98091556
this kind anon
>>98084750
has provided the first part of the essence stg draft

>>98092663
Exactly, it'd be the perfect job for her. I can't really blame her parents, who were both proud and successful generals, for not thinking of fucking people for information as the first choice of career for their daughter, though.

>>98092738
>nepotism
Nepotism how? Exalted 3E art is bought from external studios, and I'm pretty sure at least some of them are Asian. If OPP was hiring freelance artists and getting the kind of shit we see I'd buy the nepotism angle, but my impression is more that RichT pinches pennies hard and gets art from some third world sweatshop that doesn't really have any reason to give a fuck.

>>98092754
I forgot to thank that anon last thread, so thank you, >>98084750. I'm not super hyped about Essence STG, to be honest, as Essence isn't really my thing, but I'll definitely read through the draft at some point to see if there's anything worth scavenging there.

>>98092002
>Why did they make the choice to move away from anime styles when zoomers are more into anime than ever and shounen slop like jjk is massively popular?
Remember when it was talked in the last thread about the devs sacrificing ⅔ of the fanbase? Anime was part of the sacrifice, they thought it wasn't mature enough, to the point it was a curse word during early 3e

>>98093210
>Anime was part of the sacrifice, they thought it wasn't mature enough, to the point it was a curse word during early 3e
Pretty telling that their anime influences in 3e's resources section were just Ninja Scroll and Howl's Moving Castle. They're good and they're technically anime, don't get me wrong, but they're about as far from modern anime as you can get and still be called anime. Ghibli movies are usually called just that - movies - in my experience, and Ninja Scroll is not hitting anime tropes to put it lightly.

>>98093346
It could be said to have been karma, but like some anon mentioned before, 3e writers were just blind to the zeitgeist.
Dyring the transitional era between 2e and 3e, anime was associated with Narutard weirdos, and Naruto was at its worst story wise.
But, Naruto games were breaking records, meaning that it had a really big fanbase beyond the weidos, and we got the Attack on Titan mania right after.
Followed by MHA, then by the covid boom, then by One Piece finally breaking into the mainstream, the by fantasy anime such as dungeon meshi, then by etc...

>>98093210
1. Do you have like a source for that because its hard to believe any TRPG dev would kill 2/3 of their fanbase for a petty reason like 'I dun like chinese cuhtoons'
2. Also wasn't 3e primarily written by like 2 guys with near infinite creative independence? Neither of those guys were named grabowski
3. The game is dead and 3e is the reason. I look up exalted and there are literally countless threads about it up to like 2015 and then it dies. I don't understand why setting a tone of cheerful with bleak undertones would necessitate removing all anime influences when so much of anime is exactly that, cheerful with dark undertones and implications
4. Who the fuck did they think would get into the game?

I find all this quite hard to believe. It can't be that stupid, seriously.

>>98093415
>1. Do you have like a source for that because its hard to believe any TRPG dev would kill 2/3 of their fanbase for a petty reason like 'I dun like chinese cuhtoons
>>98093415
It was less "I hate anime" and more "exalted and its fanbase is divided into 3 parts, we had to sacrifice 2 to focus the tone".
One third was the asura's wrath/ttgll.

>>98093468
>One third was the asura's wrath/ttgll.
which is understandable, considering it's the worst third of the four, shoved in in 2e

>>98093468
Ok what were the other two thirds
Shard-lovers? Conan exiles type mongol enjoyers?
>>98093474
There's FOUR now?

>>98093486
>anime
>classic literature/mythology
>wuxia
>asura's wrath/ttgl
the four thirds

>>98092737
Nta but iirc Seat Admiral drew Mnemon with a helmet because she apparently owns a helmet, but it's never shown in the artwork, so he drew it himself.
Presumably he didn't add the tiara to convey that.
Otherwise people would just assume he just redesigned her tiara, not that it's an entirely different piece of headgear.

>>98093497
>she apparently owns a helmet
I have to be honest, I didn't think any named character in Exalted owned a helmet until I went looking for a source for your statement. They intentionally didn't have stats in 1e so that you could show off your hair.
>After my Exaltation, I received gifts that I had never dreamed of. From the Scarlet Empress, I received a long slashing daiklave wrought in jade designed to deliver poison, a silver helmet with a setting for a Hearthstone in the forehead and a tract of land containing a Demesne for me to build my own Manse upon. From Ragara, I was surprised to receive a magnificent suit of armor.
>aspectbook earth pg26
You're right though it does exist.

>>98093490
>>98093468
That's a weird and reductive way of thinking by the authors
In TTGL, there was always a chance that the heroes would fuck up the entire universe and prove the villains right by trying to keep everyone alive forever. (Which kamina definately would have done if he survived)
In god of war (I know you mentioned Asura's wrath but bear with me) Kratos's rage and revenge fucks up his entire civilization
The only thing seperating TTGL/Asura's wrath from Classical Heroic tragedies is just a couple of wrong decisions and slightly more punishing consequences of their actions
Wouldn't a better choice to be to an attempt to improve the great curse system and give storytellers more options for consequences so that anime enjoyers and TTGL/AW loving parts of the playerbase would play the aesthetics and archetypes that they love with the added complexity of having to consider what consequences such archetypes would have on reality and the people around them

Also with the gift of hindsight, we can see the 'focus' didn't work out and 95% of the discussion around this game is dead

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>>98093614
I'm separating out AW/TTGL because of the power levels, not for anything else

>>98093625
Ugh I can't believe I wrote all dat for nothing
Whatever abandoning anime aesthetics for discount D&D5e art future-proofed the game against new blood
>>98093380
Forgot 3e was in development for a looong time lmao, early 2000s narutards were truly insufferable

>>98093666
>Ugh I can't believe I wrote all dat for nothing
it's okay, we all shoot blanks every now and then for funsies
>Whatever abandoning anime aesthetics for discount D&D5e art future-proofed the game against new blood
why would you do that?

>>98093672
Do wut

>>98093468
>One third was the asura's wrath/ttgll.
Which the ex-freelancers who took over at the end of 2e put in. And then they loudly proclaimed they were removing it while pretending they had nothing to do with it.

>>98093678
Future proof a game against new players.

>>98093683
Its so weird to find out this was late 2e bc Exalted's online image is 50% 'you get to play the op exalts and throw mountains'

>>98093490
Anime overlap with the other 3, and ttgl/AS too.

>>98093486
Anime/TTGL/AS, Moorcockian and pulp/forum yapping.

>>98093683
1e exalted fought against solar system sized Malfeas.
2e writers just tried to actually made it possible.

>>98092765
this part has some story hooks and premises, nothing too exciting but it might be worth something

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>>98093905

>>98093881
>>98093940
>I wanted to climb those mountains nobody ever had the guts to climb before, I wanted to stat what they said couldn't or shouldn't be statted. And we did. And looking back, I don't think it improved the game. [...] I looked up one day and the game was all about [...] Yozis and Solars hip-tossing people across the universe and characters hijacking the sun and flying it into the Ebon Dragon's face and it was like—this is not the game I fell in love with back at Scavenger Sons, what happened here? Where's the Realm? Where'sJubei fighting the Eight Devils of Kimon?Where's theBrotherhood of the Peach Orchardswearing to reform a corrupt and crumbling empire? Where'sConan carving his legend into the kingdoms of menin fire and blood? Where'sAzhrarn, Prince of Demons,falling in love with a mortal man and taking vengeance when his heart is broken?When did everything become so noisy and gonzo and clumsy?

>Holden Shearer, writer for second edition and co-developer for third

>>98093958
Irony here, of course, is that at least a part of the answer to Holden asking "What happened here?" is "You".

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>>98093905
>1e exalted fought against solar system sized Malfeas.

>>98094026
Well, they obviously fought and defeated Malfeas, or the Primordial who became Malfeas, and the outermost layer of Malfeas is stated to be big enough "for worlds to pass between its arches", so...

>>98093968
It was written by an exalted writer, to this day, the closest they got to admitting that 1e lunars sucked is, Jenna saying that their themes are hot air.

>>98094136
Self-awareness is not their forte, huh?

>>98094136
>>98094273
I haven't seen Bryan Armor, Chris Hartford, James Kiley, Malcolm Sheppard, Ethan Skemp or Scott Taylor, who wrote 1E Lunars, comment much on anything online. For other writers, being too harsh on 1E Lunars would mean shitting on the work of other people, back in 2E days on other people who worked for or used to work for the same company, and doing so publically. There are pretty obvious reasons that have nothing to do with lacking self-awareness for not doing that.

>>98094304
>There are pretty obvious reasons that have nothing to do with lacking self-awareness for not doing that.
>>>Technically, illusions didn't fall under the purview of the Fair Folk until it was decided they'd get their own fatsplat.<<<

>Technically... the Lunars were supposed to be insane inimical allies of the Fair Folk until I decided I'd maybe like to see them a little more playable than that, and the other people in the meetings were okay with playable non- insane Lunars.

>The masterful illusions thing got left in the text partly on accident and partly because I really don't see how they are not masters of illusion and deceit just because they don't cast phantasmal force -- so it didn't seem like a jarring betrayal of concept to me.
>Grabowski

Ignore the fact that we know from Making of Exalted that this is a lie, and 1e lunars kept talking about how illusions are separate from the shape-shifting.

So even though the Immaculate philosophy was made by the Sidereals, there actually are 5 immaculate dragons with those 5 names?
What is the chance that some shikari ends up unwittingly attacking the dragons because he thinks it's just another big elemental causing trouble?

>>98094336
Nonexistant, the Elemental Dragons are slumbering in their respective poles.

>>98091556
Hot headed Dawn, so a couple of times, but at least he's aware how he can fuck things up when he's berserk.

>>98094343
Ah I see.
I was thinking about how most gods are fixated on getting worshipped, so if you're the official religion of Creation's most powerful country you'd absolutely try to leverage all that worship somehow.

>>98094363
Been a long time since I last read the relevant material, but I think the Elemental Dragons are too powerful to be safe around them and too insane to care about things like worship or jockeying for position in the Celestial Bureaucracy, and that's why they spend eternity sleeping mindlessly inside their respective poles.

>>98094433
Aren't they related to Gaia's Soul Hierarchy?

>>98094447
That I can't say for sure.

>>98094336
The Five Immaculate Dragons are concepts to aspire to
The Five Elemental Dragons are slumbering on/in the Elemental Poles
>>98094447
No

>>98094447
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

>Five Elemental Dragons: The five children of Gaia, who protect their mother and who brought all gods and elementals to heel in the chaotic days after the Primordial War. They are, in theory, the rulers of the terrestrial sphere, but for all their might, they issue few edicts and are so vast that they show little interest in Creation. It may be that the Terrestrial Exalted followers of the Immaculate Philosophy really do join them when they become spiritually advanced, for the Terrestrials partake of the same nature, but if such is the case, the Five Elemental Dragons say little of it.

>>98094336
There are 5 Elemental Dragons who don't really have canon names, and who ight not have names at all beyond Elemental Dragon of Air and so on. Immaculate Dragons are associated with the Elemental Dragons by the Immaculates, but IIRC even in Immaculate teachings there's a bit of a distinction between the Elemental Dragons and the Immaculate Dragons, with Immaculate Dragons being Elemental Dragons supposedly incarnated into five Dragon-Blooded.

>>98094363
I think the Elemental Dragons mostly just sleep, as >>98094343 says, and don't seem all that interested in worship or affairs of Creation in general.

>>98094433
I don't think the Five Elemental Dragons are stated or implied to be insane anywhere. Greater elemental dragons like Kukla are a different matter.

>>98094447
In 2E, sure, in 1E there's no particular reason to assume they are though I don't think it's stated one way or another, in 3E they definitely aren't.

>>Celestial History
>The weakest among the gods, the Elemental Dragons and the lesser spirits of the earth and the elements, could not make heroes as mighty as the Celestial gods could. Instead, they made among themselves soldiers, to serve as the armies of the heroes. They were not as powerful as the heroes created by the Celestial gods, but they could multiply, in the manner of the creatures of the earth, to make good their losses in battle. This was unlike the heroes of the Celestial gods, whose might was too great to pass through the blood. The heroes of the Celestial gods were not born, but Exalted after birth, usually after a heroic deed drew the attention of the gods. When the Celestial Exalted died, their heroic spirits would pass to others, and they would be reborn after a time. Yet, they could make no dynasties.

>>98094638
>>The Spirit Courts
>Local spirits are organized into elaborate and complex courts. The higher-ranking gods are supposed to keep track of the lesser spirits under them, with the Five Elemental Dragons towering over all the other spirits of the Terrestrial sphere — and most of the Celestials as well.
>Punishments:
>Spirits who attempted to overthrow the divine hierarchy or directly interfere with the domains of spirits of equal or greater power and authority were deemed to be dangerous rebels and paid the ultimate price. Depending upon the needs and desires of their judges, such spirits were either greatly reduced in power and given the domain of a least god, such as the spirit of a bush or other inconsequential object, or were eaten by the Elemental Dragons. Some even had their very Essences smelted into new forms by the fires of Heaven. These soulforged gods were used to create powerful enchanted objects — particularly powerful spirits could be shaped into objects as great as large magical buildings. In the First Realm, such rebellious gods sometimes became the palaces of the Exalted, while today, they are invariably added on to the sanctums of the more powerful spirits.

>>History of the Elementals
>The universe proved to be quite a puzzle to the gods. All of these elemental particles, all imbued with Essence, and all infinitely interlocking. For a while at least, the gods played at reshuffling reality’s cards and coming to grips with the manner in which Creation was put together and shaped. Gaia pensively observed their efforts, at times even guiding many of the gods toward an understanding of how the world was brought into being and how the fragments of reality coalesce in Creation. With Gaia’s help, and by studying how she had created her progeny, the Five Elemental Dragons, the gods achieved a great enough mastery of Creation’s secrets that they were able to imbue certain elements with far greater Essence than they normally possessed.
>The gods were not completely disinterested, however. Gaia saw the chaos that war had wrought, and she released the Five Elemental Dragons on Creation. These mighty creatures brought the little gods of the Terrestrial Sphere to their knees before them and were soon proclaimed divine lords of the Terrestrial Sphere, Through them, the Celestial Bureaucracy of responsibility was quickly put into place in the Terrestrial world. A bureaucracy was established, and accountability as well, so that the Incarna need not attend to everything themselves. Though they soon slipped into a vast sleep common to dragons of the most powerful sort, it was a shallow slumber, and the dragons seldom hesitated to devour any god or elemental who made designs on the Incarna or their mother. The Celestial Incarna looked on momentarily and then returned to the Games of Divinity, and the world attempted to move on.

>>98094657
>When the Primordials destroyed the first elementals, some of their Essence persisted, taking the shape the gods originally set for it, but on a dramatically smaller scale. Likewise, the second generation of elementals consisted mostly of smaller and less-powerful versions of the first. These new elementals, like the rest of the Terrestrial divinities, quickly fell under the yoke of the Five Elemental Dragons, who were successfully cleaning up the mess the Primordial War had left behind. The Court of Seasons was already a functioning body when the new generation of elementals appeared, and the Elemental Dragons were busily sanctioning other spirit courts as well. Because of this late arrival (and thefact that they believed the elementals too stupid to be of any use), the Elemental Dragons found little purpose for the elementals beyond simple tasks such as moving the wind and shaping the earth.
>As time wore on, the offspring of the Five Elemental Dragons took up positions of power in the Celestial Hierarchy as well. Such lesser elemental dragons had more sympathy for the elementals than their parents and named some elementals their own personal servants, which is perhaps all most of them could have hoped for in the new order of things at the dawn of the First Age.

Talking about it, weird how Exalted technically has 2 sets of unrelated terrestrial gods.

>Behold the time of clouds surcharged with rain,
>Like to a furious elephant they rise;
Or mighty monarch hurrying to the war;
In place of standards see the lightning’s flash,
>And rolling thunder answers to the drum: This is the time, my life, that’s dear to love
Do you use poetry in your games?

>>98094960
I think that terrestrial gods and elementals are mostly pretty distinct, and that they mostly fit in the same setting just fine, but they do have a significant amount of overlap that can get a bit weird. Also there are some elementals I think would work better as gods, and vice versa.

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>>98092273
NGL Lyta is like Azula.
She's peak I can fix her material.

>>98095360
Lyta and Peleps Deled hatefuck when

I have a vague memory of being told that the Yozi have unlisted charms that serve as counterparts to the other Yozi's charms, though with alterations based on their personal themes. I've found an Ebon Dragon themed version of Verdant Emptiness Endowment which trades the whole wishing thing for a more straightforward deal with the devil, but does anyone have any others? I'd be interested in seeing a Theion/Malfeas version of the charm, mostly.

>>98096646
ROTSE has a few adaptations of the other Yozi Charms in TED's writeup

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>>98096646
I got you fampai, they're all Ebby emulation Charms from RotSE.

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>>98096646
Although based on what you're looking for, it's possible you're also looking for these Charms/Charm guidelines for Theion from the Gunstar Autochthonia section of Shards of the Exalted Dream. This is technically a separate phenomena, in that rather than emulating a separate preexisting Yozi the versions of these Charms represent the differences separating Theion from Malfeas before the King of the Primordials was mutilated into the Demon City.

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>>98096646
Also before you ask, Invincible Creator Authority has never had a canon writeup to my knowledge. Who knows what 3e will bring though after they put in a fucking Mardukth Charm and let Infernals use more Theion stuff than Malfeas provably retains.

>>98091556
as little as possible, i mostly play exalts that are not prone to breaking like DBs and infernals/alchemical.

i basically always take the cecelyan torment. damage is way easier to deal with than the other things.

>>98092032
....i kinda like the design. feels like a light power armor from lookshy made of blue jade alloy.

>>98096860
>that are not prone to breaking like...infernals
I'm sorry, nani the fuck? I'm not even disagreeing the Cecelyne torment is easy mode compared to the rest, I'm just shocked at the idea of Infernals being one of the least limit-prone splats available.

>>98095951
Lyta would never fuck one of the betrayers!

>>98096966
Acts of Villainy let you reliably bleed off limit and they're part and parcel of playing an Infernal. You have things like Best Enemy Recognition (just about every villain of the week ever), Exquisite Bride Obsession (WATASHI TO KEKKON MORAIMASHOU) Fiendish Deathtrap Compulsion (can even dovetail with Best Enemy Recognition when done right), Infernal Genius Declaration (nothing stops you from killing them once you make this declaration, and you can tell people who don't understand your plans all about it. Or your plan might just be to plap Ipithymia), Insane Death-Dealing Provocation (probably the trickiest, you have to kill meaningfully, but that also includes being a prick by murdering a some mook that does a significant but not vital function for your enemies) and Kindly Lunatic Blessing (by far the easiest, just make some random mortal inane). All other Exalts are generally limited to a once-per-session limit bleed. Also, Infernals have access to Cosmic Transcendence of Virtue to max out the virtue roll to remove limit.

>>98091949
>THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
Okay crazy lady

>>98094074
>Well, they obviously fought and defeated Malfeas
Fought against doesn't mean they could have killed him or knocked him out of the fight. Malfeas was made to surrender, not incapacitated.

>>98094343
>Nonexistant, the Elemental Dragons are slumbering in their respective poles.
No they fucking aren't, dumbass. Has nobody read Compass of Celestial Directions: The Wyld? Page 84, 100, 119, 137 are very clear on exactly what the Elemental Dragons are doing and it is not fucking sleeping. They rule the elemental courts and manage elementals throughout Creation. The only one of them who spends most of their time in their Elemental Pole is Hesiesh, because he doesn't need to restrain his power to avoid demolishing everything around him there.

>>98094336
The Immaculate Dragons are based on the real elemental dragons. The Immaculate Order's descriptions of them is/was kept pretty accurate to how they act, with the exception that they revere their supposed incarnations as Dragonblooded (which weren't a thing) more than they look to the elemental dragons that upkeep Creation, which are seen as more abstract and immaterial. Kind of like the difference between Jesus and God, I guess, in that the former is considered more approachable.

>>98094498
>There are 5 Elemental Dragons who don't really have canon names
Wrong. The Immaculate Dragons have the same names as the Elemental Dragons.

>don't seem all that interested in worship or affairs of Creation in general.
This part is right, but I think it's the only part that's right.

>>98097338
2E may have conflated Immaculate Dragons and Elemental Dragons, but I don't remember 1E using Immaculate names for the Elemental Dragons. As for what the Dragons do, 1E's GoD and 2E's SoGD make it pretty clear that whatever it is, they don't rule the elemental courts. If there's material conflicting with that, well, that happens sometimes with freelancers.

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>>98097423
>I don't remember 1E using Immaculate names for the Elemental Dragons
I do.

>1E's GoD and 2E's SoGD make it pretty clear that whatever it is, they don't rule the elemental courts
GoD makes clear that they do.

>>98097423
And to specify what I mean when I say that the books make it clear that the Five Elemental Dragons don't rule their courts: we get plenty of fairly detailed information on several different elemental courts, with no indication of the Elemental Dragon being involved with or interested in them. Wind Masters, for instance, claim rulership over all the air elementals in Creation - not all air elementals follow them, in practice, but a big chunk of them do - and they confer with each other, not with the Elemental Dragon of Air, to make large-scale decisions. GoD also states that the Dragons had little interest in or belief in the usefulness of elementals when they started to appear, and RoGD states that elementals organized themselves into courts with no direction from the Dragons, "never having received the instruction of the Five Elemental Dragons".

>>98097466
>I do.
Why did you post somethign that doesn't say that, then?

>GoD makes clear that they do.
No, GoD says that Elemental Dragons out Terrestrial *gods* to order after the Primordial War, and that "they believed the elementals
too stupid to be of any use".

>>98097473
>And to specify what I mean when I say that the books make it clear that the Five Elemental Dragons don't rule their courts
To specify what I mean when I say that the books make clear that they rule the courts, I mean in the same way that the Unconquered Sun rules the Celestial Bureaucracy, or the Maidens of Fate rule the Bureau of Destiny, or Malfeas rules Malfeas. That's why I gave you a quote saying that they are the rulers of the terrestrial sphere, and why it saying that they issue 'few edicts' does not mean that they do not rule, or that they do not issue edicts.

>>98097482
Well, that's not what the Games of Divinity quote I posted says, so...

>>98097490
I mean, GoD literally and explicitly does say that the Dragons considered elementals too dumb to be useful and saw little purpose them, and then describes elemental courts more as lesser elemental dragon run things. That's not an implication, that's not subtext, it's just clear, plain text. The quote you posted would be a lot more meaningful for this discussion if those two pesky words, "in theory", weren't there.

>>98097092
...you know, the bizarre thing is I did know Acts of Villainy exist. It's just that at some point, I completely forgot that the other Exalted had so few ways to mitigate Limit. I remember a FEW Limit-reducing Charms being available, but I suppose all of them are much less intuitive than just having an actual non-Charm mechanic for venting it directly written into your splatbook.

>>98097092
>Also, Infernals have access to Cosmic Transcendence of Virtue to max out the virtue roll to remove limit.
In fairness, Solars (and probably Abyssals should too) have mirrors of Cosmic Transcendence of [Virtue] as well. However, Infernals also have the fewest/least Limit gain of the solaroids even outside of Acts of Villainy being there to mitigate it further. Solars have their flaws, which have them roll their highest virtue and add successes as Limit - and yes, their equivalent to transcendence, Epic Zeal of Virtue, will turn the dice into automatic successes. Abyssals have their litany of sins. Infernals have acting against their Urge, Virtues, and UMI, but that's it. They don't even get Limit from acting against their Motivation.

You know who else has a mostly flavor way to bleed off their Limit-alike track? Abyssals. Hell, Alchemicals do too. People express a lot of hate for their Limit-alikes though, and you know why? It's because Resonance and Clarity actually show up in games. Infernal Limit was a joke even before Acts of Villainy, and Acts are nothing but an excuse to troll. An excuse to troll is fine enough as a thing, it's just kind of lame to me when it serves as proof that every mainline attempt at Limit was borked.

>>98097338
>The Immaculate Dragons have the same names as the Elemental Dragons.
I think this was retconed out in 3e

>>98098228
I never saw people having problems with clarity.
The most critiqued part of their design was the attunement costs.

>>98098303
>I think this was retconed out in 3e
I think 3e hasn't gone into it yet, and probably won't comment at all.

>>98098340
Which would be the same as it was during 1E, I believe.

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>>98098460
>Which would be the same as it was during 1E, I believe.
You believe wrong.

>>98098587
I wonder if terrestrial gods and elementals were the same class of being at some point.
Since the earlier descriptions sound like another of the broken dualism.

>>98098587
That says literally nothing about the names of the Elemental Dragons.

>>98098632
>That says literally nothing about the names of the Elemental Dragons.
It tells you that the Elemental Dragons that exist are the ones the Immaculate Order worships. The names are given for the elemental dragons the Immaculates worship all over the place. You can put two and two together anon.

>>98098691
It is 1e core, the lore wasn't set in stone and suffered retcons as it went.
Because if this there's so much confusion.

But yes, it is likely that they had the same names.

>>98098691
Anon, please. I hope you're just trying to win an Internet argument here any way you can instead of that genuinely being your best attempt at logical deduction. Everyone knows that the Immaculate Order worships the Elemental Dragons, so that's not in question here. What is in question is whether the names given to the Dragons in Immaculate Texts are their actual names rather than just a part of the Immaculate fabrication. I guess another thing that is in question is whether Immaculates themselves think those names apply to the Elemental Dragons or just to their mythological incarnations, the Immaculate Dragons, as there is a bit of a distinction there, but the more important question is just whether non-Immaculates, including the Dragons themselves, use those names. It should be obvious that Immaculates using those names while also venerating the Dragons doesn't and can't answer that question, just as a matter of very basic logic. In 2E it was clear that those were the actual names of the Elemental Dragons, because those names were used for them outside the context of the Immaculate Faith. An example of 1E doing the same would be needed to show that names of Immaculate Dragons were always the actual names of the Elemental Dragons.

>>98098720
Well, the religion was fabricated by the Sidereals, and the dragons wouldn't have names otherwise.

>>98098303
it was retconned in in 2e

>>98096821.
Meanwhile Adorjan.
>FOND REMEMBRANCE OF ADRIÁN
>Cost: 6m
>Mins: Essence 2
>Type: Reflexive (Step 9)
>Keywords: Combo-OK, Counterattack, Obvious, Stackable
>Duration: Indefinite
>Prerequisite Charms: Sacred Kamilla’s Inhalation
>When she encircled Creation as the River of Torments, Adrián formed a moat of fire, ice and razors to fence out the Unshaped nuisances that pestered the Primordials. Raksha who dared test her borders found her not so much impregnable as annihilating, shredding the works of their Shaping like cobwebs before ravaging them with her elements. Adrián is long dead, but Adorjan still remembers how to punish those who would make her other than herself. This Charm may be activated as a defense against any Shaping effect that targets the Infernal or any owned objects within (Compassion x 5) yards. Not only does Fond Remembrance of Adrián negate that effect in a violent spray of jagged Essence, but the being who used that Shaping effect suffers an automatically successful attack that inflicts (Conviction)L dice of damage from simultaneous laceration, incineration and deep freezing.

>The damage becomes aggravated once the Infernal attains Essence 6+. When no clear perpetrator can be identified for punishment, Adorjan’s torments draw silent screams from the shinma instead. The protection afforded by this Charm lasts as long as the Infernal commits Essence to it. One-time Shaping effects shatter against the Charm’s power, while mutagenic environments like the Wyld require continuous protection. The retaliatory damage pulse only occurs when Fond Remembrance of Adrián first activates, however, providing an incentive to reactivate this Charm if opponents press the point. Each active instance of this Charm defends against all Shaping effects from a single source. A valid source need not be present, but must exist (so resistance to the warping power of the Wyld lasts for the duration of commitment, even if the character leaves the Wyld).

>>98098753
More like it was left open in 1E and clarified in 2E - not necessary in the sense that it was originally intended for canon Immaculate names to be the actual names, but 2E didn't really contradict or outright change what was said in 1E about the Dragons. It's just that 1E didn't say that much about them and 2E said a bit more. It's fine for 3E to walk that back a bit, though. Personally I rather like the Dragons just being called that, Dragon of Air, Dragon of Earth and so on, with everyone who matters knowing that you're not talking about some lesser elemental dragon when you mention *the* Dragon of Air. That makes the Dragons feel more primal and archetypal than if they had proper personal names, I think, and I like that for the rulers and purest embodiments of the elements.

Calling the elemental dragons by the immaculate dragons' names is like calling USA as Pentagon.

Speaking of Limit, "redeemed" Abyssals have no Limit track and instead of Limit Breaking, they lose max Willpower for a season or so. Is that better or worse than a normal Limit Break? I;m inclined to think worse because WP is good and Limit Breaks are a great way to regain them, but then again, I'm the kind of guy who just goes with Heart of Flint.

>>98096781
>>98096809
>Ebby definitely has a version of VEE
That's part of what I was looking for, yeah. Does Malfeas have a version, and has anyone ever done a writeup for it?

Also, can you make a hellforged wonder out of an akuma?

>>98098949
don't think so, it would probably be something like Wounded Lord Largesse and be framed as Malfeas giving a petitioner or servant a boon if he feels like it (so the guy would need to officially beg Malfeas for the request, etc. rather than Cecelyne's ability to activate the charm if she so much as senses the potential victim's desire for improvement.)

As for the hellforged wonder, might as well ask if you can make an artifact out of an Exalt. I don't think it's impossible but it wouldn't follow the same rules as a normal hellforged wonder. Maybe something involving dissolving the victim's body and soul in vitriol and another sorcery/charm/whatever to imbue the artifact with it. Berengiere might be a good reference; she can weave cloth from voices but the best cloth (artifact level) needs really good voices. Similarly you could probably bind some akuma's hun soul into an artifact (fundamentally the demonic version of soulforging) but I don't think it would have the akuma's Exalted Charms. It would be reasonable to assume it could be done, but this is really "ask your ST" territory.

>>98098929
>I'm the kind of guy who just goes with Heart of Flint.
It's always the most playable virtue flaw. Sure it's a pain in the ass but at least it doesn't make you unplayable or give you a huge fucking problem that often feels unrelated to the plot.

>>98098786
>More like it was left open in 1E and clarified in 2E - not necessary in the sense that it was originally intended for canon Immaculate names to be the actual names, but 2E didn't really contradict or outright change what was said in 1E about the Dragons.
Talking about it, Exalted is a weird case of a pantser work falling in the hands of more plotter minded writers, only for the plotters becoming Martin like pantsers out of social pressure.

>>98099257
The millennias weren't kind to him.

>>98099514
He is using his appearance of a senile old man to get people to trust him.

>>98099257
qt shark

>>98099257
We bullied the shit out of him in our game. Most of the players hadn't read the books and only knew Exalted by osmosis, half of them though he was a Sidereal trying to play mysterious trickster and the other half thought he was raksha eating people's souls with madman street tricks. They figured the correct response was to put him directly in the path of an ambush we'd spotted waiting for us and then loot the body as he bled out.

>>98098929
Wait, there are rules for this? What exactly happens? I looked in abyssals 2e but didn't find anything.

>>98102344
Scroll of Errata. If you choose to accept it anyway, it's full of retcons surrounding Abyssals. The short of it is encouraging people to go renegade by making redemption have an extremely positive end state, and cutting off all the things that previously discouraged people going renegade.

>>98102367
What things were those?

Also:

>The original Exalted Limit track was originally designed by the gods and Autochthon to act as an ablative defense against madness-inducing Primordial magic. Unfortunately, Limit created an unintended backdoor vulnerability that the dying Primordials exploited and corrupted with their Great Curse, bypassing anti-Shaping defenses through this hidden imperfection. It is scant comfort that only the death curses of the Primordials could exploit this crack and that they cannot do so again.
I don't even know how to articulate why the entire abyssal redemption thing pisses me off so much, I think maybe it's because they overexplain what should be a personal roleplaying thing.

Does anyone have a link to that NSFW Exalted Discord channel?

Would you permit a player to apply Claws of the Silver Moon to a natural missile weapon, or create an alternate "Missile of the Silver Moon" charm?

>>98102959
I personally would. Natural missile weapons are pretty shit anyway.

>>98102451
>Green text.
The writers had to explain how it was possible since the exalted host had anti curse charms.

>Abyssals redemption.
It is nonsensically moralistic, to the point it whitewash Solars of their sins.

>>98103276
>It is nonsensically moralistic, to the point it whitewash Solars of their sins.
I think that's kind of the point. The Solars doing nothing wrong is part of someone's fantasy and offs are they wrote that kind of lore. Not sure if that was just them jerking off the Solars or if there was more to it, like "yes we are embracing the cultivation retardation and their take on morality"

>>98104001
I think it was accidental, over time, the negative aspects of Solars went to the other solaroids.

>Cultivation.
It only started entering the western mind space after 3e was mostly done, beforehand, we only really had wuxia.

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>>98104409
Fair enough, I'm probably thinking too close to the generic Manwa I read last week. Even if thais kind of slop feels about right for an Exalted game.

>>98096646
So weird that they made this a thing and then blocked infernals from taking advantage of it. So stupid.

>>98104409
>It only started entering the western mind space after 3e was mostly done, beforehand, we only really had wuxia.
Institutionalized might makes right wasn't exactly unique to cultivation though.

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>>98104496
It is a case of convergent evolution; since 2010s, high powered non-anime Asian works started to pop up here and there, a notorious example is Thunderbolt Fantasy.

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>>98091556
How might a god or goddess of Sorcery arise?

>>98104737
The patron god(dess) of the heptagram, or a divinity of knowledge and rites.

>>98104737
There exists a god who was a mortal sorcerer and ascended, then built a small group of allies in Heaven around advancing sorcery. I know he's got a canon name but I didn't find it at a casual glance. I don't think he had any named office, but an unemployed ascended sorcerer god seems pretty pure for a god of sorcery.

Shenji, God of Thaumaturgy and Sub-Director of the Office of Intelligent Design, exists for thaumaturgy. It's important to note though that he is the God of Thaumaturgy not because Heaven had back-end access to thaumaturgy that let them manage it by putting someone in a relevant role, but because Shenji is a fucking madman who investigates, documents, and records in his massive collection called the Procedures of Creation every form of thaumaturgy ever performed in Creation. Like, manually. In 2e, where mortal thaumaturges can make a new procedure with a few months work. If someone with a similar work ethic for sorcery were to exist - could exist - that might be your god of sorcery, but Shenji himself would do well for it.

Then yeah as >>98104755 says any old sorcerer god of knowledge, rites, rituals, etc, could do the job. The god of the Heptagram, Valkhausen, Sperimin, and whoever runs Department 137 might do.

Mishiko might be a god, and if she is one then of sorcery.

>>98104737
Through a bureaucratic process where someone in the Celestial Bureaucracy suggests founding such a position, and that suggestion then goes through various committees, revisions and so on until it's finally subjected to the Unconquered Sun's decision, or until the finalized proposal for founding the position of the God of Sorcery is given to a disinterested UCS to rubber stamp. Or maybe such decisions are made at a lower level these days? Anyways, it's pretty much just a divine bureaucratic process of starting a new office. I think sorcery's unnatural in a way that makes it not obviously fall under the purview of the gods, though I don't think that actually prevents them from appointing someone to sort of keep an eye on sorcery anyways.

>>98104934
>I think sorcery's unnatural in a way that makes it not obviously fall under the purview of the gods, though I don't think that actually prevents them from appointing someone to sort of keep an eye on sorcery anyways.
This is my understanding also. Thaumaturgy was the same and they appointed Shenji to track it.

>>98104920
Hey, how does mortal apotheosis working Exalted? Is it something mortals can achieve on their own or do the Gods have a particular power to uplift a mortal into a generic god?

>>98105270
The incarna can do it, god blooded can ascend to godhood and I think some gods had costly charms for turning mortals into god blooded.

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Which book did the yellow jade typo first appear in?

>>98105330
I see. That's for the broad strokes.

>>98105417
It is an underdeveloped part of the setting, to the point even old players were confused by it being a thing.

For all the charms this game has there are only like 3-4 viable builds if you wanted to do anything about any of the setting's problems.

>>98105612
That's kind of the point.

>>98105639
I am pretty sure 4/5 of the Solar castes weren't intentionally designed to be trap options.

>>98105657
You remember how the Garou are severely under equipped to do do their job in the modern era? Same shit there.

>>98105674
how are they related in any way

>>98105674
In this case it is "Captain Twilight; savior of the world, and the meatshield quartet".

>>98105705
I don't think so.all the castes are indispensable.
>Zenith to sway the masses
>Eclipse for diplocacy between exalted and other supernaturals and sanctifying oaths.
>Dawns the open gauntlet.
>The hidden dagger and procurer of information.

>>98105739
>masses don't matter
>diplomacy isn't magic words
>fights are unwinnable
>hiding is pointless

>>98105739
>>Dawns the open gauntlet
>>98105781
>>fights are unwinnable
Reminder that Twilights were the better fighters during 1e.

>>98105781
>>masses don't matter
They do you still need food and workers.
>>diplomacy isn't magic words
It is knowing how to treat people and know what they want and then be able to seal magical oaths
>>fights are unwinnable
They are the last resort, and a paper tiger will be seen through eventually. You need muscle.
>>hiding is pointless
Said that to the hundreds of Solars killed before they could do anything because of their carelessness.

>>98105823
That's an unintended result but even then you are wasting time learning to fight instead of what it's supposedly the only things supposedly worth learning sorcery/crafting.

>>98105833
>That's an unintended result but even then you are wasting time learning to fight instead of what it's supposedly the only things supposedly worth learning sorcery/crafting.
In 3e, 2 twilights can unlock infinite exp.
And they had infinite motes during parts of 2e.

Twilights being the better fighter was just poorly thought out contrarianism against D&D, mixed with not understanding why the wizards from The Black Company are so tough

>>98105833
>They do you still need food and workers.
they need it much more than me, plus you can just take theirs (this is what in some fantasy settings is called a "tax")
>It is knowing how to treat people
no it isn't
>They are the last resort, and a paper tiger will be seen through eventually. You need muscle.
they aren't a last resort, the problem in this case is that you can't conventionally fight against the actual problems in the setting because they are way more powerful than anything you could ever hope to achieve even with infinite xp to spend on combat charms
>Said that to the hundreds of Solars killed before they could do anything because of their carelessness.
nonsequitur

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgsKqMqT7zM&t=4216s
I was listening to this podcast when something the guy working on exalted jumped at me.
>Creation wasn't better in the past
Like how missguided are these retards?
The whole point of creation is being in a downward spiral it is key to the setting.

>>98106056
>Like how missguided are these retards?
3e retconed the 1st age from "cursed gilded age" to "same as the age of sorrows, but with different factions and higher average Essence ratings".

>>98105857
>they need it much more than me, plus you can just take theirs (this is what in some fantasy settings is called a "tax")
It's way easier to collect tax when your subjects are willing.
>no it isn't
It quite is; knowing how to treat people doesn't mean being nice all the time.
>they aren't a last resort, the problem in this case is that you can't conventionally fight against the actual problems in the setting because they are way more powerful than anything you could ever hope to achieve even with infinite xp to spend on combat charms
The problem is that you can quite well kill several problems that creation has. While others are fixed with infrastructure.
>nonsequitur
You can quite literally do nothing if you are killed before you have a strong base of support or grow strong enough to intimidate your opposition.
Therefore, you won't get to build shit.

>>98106073
Don't they realize that kills a lot of the weight and melancholy built into the setting?

>>98106083
>It's way easier to collect tax when your subjects are willing.
they're never going to be willing (and that doesn't actually matter, never has and never will)
>It quite is; knowing how to treat people doesn't mean being nice all the time.
it quite literally doesn't matter in the slightest
>The problem is that you can quite well kill several problems that creation has
you can't, and if you think otherwise then you probably don't even know which problems we're talking about here
>You can quite literally do nothing if you are killed
if you spend all your time hiding you might as well be dead
>before you have a strong base of support or grow strong enough to intimidate your opposition
zero correlation between this and dying

>>98106095
It is a spur of the moment thing, the devs are that ashamed of Dreams of the First Age.
But a lot still written like it was the old version, since the devs also don't want to write the new version of the first age, for reasons such as "don't want to dwell in the past", "not wanting to write a genocide" and "so each table can make them own".

>>98106102
>they're never going to be willing (and that doesn't actually matter, never has and never will)
What is nationalisticreligious fervor?
>it quite literally doesn't matter in the slightest
Help from other supernaturals doesn't matter?
How do you think the first age was built?
>you can't, and if you think otherwise then you probably don't even know which problems we're talking about here
Please elucidate for me.
>zero correlation between this and dying
Bro, the world hates you, and the Wild Hunt is coming for you.
You have to be discreet at least at the start, and even then, having the best spy in the world with you is a huge advantage.

>>98104737
I like to think there is a goddess of prostitution who ended up gaining a secondary portfolio of sorcery due to all the sorcerers who pray to successfully bind neomah to fuck and for all the neomah who pray their masters don't hurt them too much.

>>98105657
Honestly don't know which is the bigger trap option, Dawn or Eclipse.

>>98105781
>diplomacy isn't magic words
In the case of Exalted it actually is

>>98105845
Infinite XP is 3e, but in 2e twilights had infinite motes.

>>98106141
There's already a canon prostitution deity that is a hemaphrodite.

>>98105657
>>98106143
Noob here, what do you mean caste is a trap option? Is it just that twilight is that good?

>>98106147
>In the case of Exalted it actually is
even exalted couldn't make it so

>>98106158
Dawns were a trap option, since they only had attack abilities, but didn't have any utility, not even combat utility (awareness, dodge, athletics and resistance).
The dawn solution from 2e, and the supernal from 3e were created to rectify it.

>>98106166
>>98106158
Like >>98106179 said, Dawn Caste has 5 combat abilities, which are all redundant with themselves, their anima power was combat oriented and too weak on top of that. It's good fluff for a certain kind of power fantasy but very limiting and underpowered in practice.

Eclipse is arguably even more handicapped because they get both Ride and Sail (which have generally been really weak in all editions) and the other three Caste abilities aren't exactly things you use often in adventuring. But they're perfect for ruling and administration and the Eclipse anima power is arguably the strongest if you can cherry pick your learned Charms properly.

>>98106179
I was actually thinking about whether I should use more than one weapon skill.
I just assumed that if you want to have melee 5 sure, but you should at least have martial arts 1 so you can do something if you are disarmed.

>>98106206
It's easier to just prevent yourself from getting disarmed.

>>98102588
https://discord.gg/dhWJJQB3

>>98106201
>Eclipse is arguably even more handicapped because they get both Ride and Sail (which have generally been really weak in all editions)
Joke's on you my Journeys sidereal has an artifact 3 first age speeder bike and my other Battles sidereal who specializes in air combat has an artifact 4 skyship that he uses like an A-10, so that's two characters who literally the dinosaur in a fighter jet meme.

>>98105705
Kinda, it's more like 1 bodyguard and 3 suppliers for a guy that needs ungodly ingredients to solve the problem. Give a decent Twilight enough orphans and they will craft something to solve the problem you are dealing with the only gripe I tend to have is how some spells, on paper, solve a decent chunk of that problem so you end up with a celestial Sorcerer and his blessed minions.

>>98106206
Smashfists can be used with Melee. And if you're really paranoid about being disarmed, there's Summoning The Loyal Steel and GLorious Solar Saber.

>>98106353
This is an old issue with WW games, dating way back to Masquerade's thaumaturgy.

>>98106122
>the devs are that ashamed of Dreams of the First Age.
But I liked my first age waterpark.

>>98106506
It arguable goes all the way back to Ars Magika but that had more of a structure to support it IIRC.
The thing you can do is embrace the bullshit or take from other versions of the game.

>>98106543
Yes, I know, but vampire has the charms/disciplines vs sorcery/thaumaturgy divide.

>>98098094
kinda the same with abyssals.

self venting resonance through stigmata hurt you sure but it only affect YOU and heals normally. go chill alone in a forest for a week or 2 and your fine for a while.

>>98096966
even funnier, you can use five dragon fortitude to soak cecelian torment since its not an infernal charm.

>>98098332
fucking this! attuning charms is retarded.
they keep saying that swapping charms make you versatile but situations are rarely determined in advances. a fight breaking at the court is NOT rare and if you are setup as a social, you are getting borked. also, the idea of having that low a limit of usable charms is in the way of fun (charms=fun btw).

>>98106206
martial art 5, wood dragon claws. boom, you can do 95% of all martial arts.

>>98106595
>they keep saying that swapping charms make you versatile
being married to a fucking vat (which is married to a fucking Manse) is not versatile
There's a reason why alchies in all other depictions got all their Charms stuck into them and could swap them out at will.

>>98106648
IIRC claws also let you use them as grappler weapons too with vine fluffing and they scale with your essence.

Infernals can now do what the Yozi do and homebrew charms that are like the charms of other yozi but they need to be themed and mechanically related to them if they do so.

What's the first charm your infernal is learning? I am 100% learning the Oramus version of By Rage Recast, whatever the fuck that would be.

>>98106595
>they keep saying that swapping charms make you versatile
I think they were saying that swapping charms made you adaptable. And they're right, in that it makes you able to adapt, but it makes you much less flexible because you can't handle everything being sent at you, and it makes you much much less powerful because power in Exalted comes from having the right set of charms at the right time for the right situation and stacking them for best effect.

Maybe if Alchemicals didn't have to spend xp for charms they'd have a point, or if they only had to commit xp instead of spend it like with Flowing Mind Prana.

>>98106595
I think it is caused by some factors.

White wolf doesn't like the players using their powers too much, so they put sucky mechanics such as anima, the destructive animas of DBs and charm slots to kneecap your powers.
Alchemicals are like James Bond or mecha shows, in these kind of shows the mcs constantly swap and upgrade their gadgets.
The devs overestimated the capabilities of a "heroic mortal".
The devs didn't really thought if the loading would still work in a high intensity game.
Alchemicals were made relatively early, before the stunts for motes paradigm, but slots didn't fit well in the meta.

>>98107117
>Alchemicals were made relatively early, before the stunts for motes paradigm, but slots didn't fit well in the meta.
no

>>98107137
They are in times of tumult, around the first year of publication.

>>98107144
>They are in times of tumult, around the first year of publication.
They don't have playable mechanics until The Autochthonians at the end of the edition. Time of Tumult Alchemicals have a chargen stub with 'add homebrew here if you want a PC' written on it.

Alchemicals were made last, at the end of 1e, and their charms and attunement costs and all of that came after four years experience.

>>98107183
Yes, but the slots were made to not cripple them harder than the tot version.

>>98107190
So you're saying you were full of shit, and the devs actually foresaw the problem and tried to fix it ahead of time because Alchemicals weren't actually made early and they had time to make the slot mechanic which they thought would fit the meta?

>>98107201
Alchemicals were made earlier, but the devs noticed how problematic it was for them to sacrifice their personal mote pool (Essence × 3 + Willpower) for charms, so their created the slots, that still didn't fix the problem.

>>98107259
It didn't fix the problem because commit costs still exist IN ADDITION to the slots

>>98105781
Not one of those things is true.

>>98105823
>Reminder that Twilights were the better fighters during 1e.
Yeah, but it's not 1E anymore.

>>98106073
It didn't, though. 3E FA probably wasn't modern Western world but tehcnology's magic, and it wasn't united and peaceful for all the thousands of years it lasted, but in the actual published material it is still pretty clearly a greater, more glorious age.

>>98107394
2E Twilight supremacy has already been mentioned but in 3E they have all the abilities needed for infinite XP looping, they can create spirit allies to fight for them (and they can power them up with XP looping) and they can store them up their asses and kill enemies with a fart.

>>98107414
Plus artifacts can do whatever the fuck you want to the point of absurdity.

>>98107414
The biggest problems of Creation aren't really ones that can be fixed through artifice, however. The single biggest issue right now are no doubt the deep divisions and feuds between the Exalted, and taking steps towards finding some kind of common ground for the Exalted Host would be about the most impactful thing an Exalt could do, maybe not in terms of local and immediate impact but definitely in terms of Creation-wide and long-term impact. Diplomacy is the way to go if fixing Creation is the goal. Not to say that crafting shit isn't also important, but it's not the most important thing right now.

>>98107284

>White Wolf had an idea.
>They saw how it sucked.
>Instead of course correction.
>WW attempted to rework it until it worked.
>This attempt of fixing is going on for decades at this point.
Just like my lunars' lack of illusion charms!!

>>98107414
>infinite XP looping
There is no infinite XP looping in the 3e Solar charmset unless you have some way to make stories go faster, in that there is no way to make xp go infinite through looping. You can loop the same xp around infinitely with Flowing Mind Prana, but you can do that less than once per story and you can't make it go exponential. Twilights cannot target each other with Flowing Mind Prana to go multiplicative, either.

>>98107434
>The single biggest issue right now are no doubt the deep divisions and feuds between the Exalted
No? The problem is that thay're incapable of doing shit and still leech from Solar tech.

>>98107434
Anon can't understand this simple point.
Diplomacy and reuniting the exalted is what would fix creation.
Hell, even the OG creators knew that the infighting between the exalted is what eventually destroys the world.
And who would be best at this?
The eclipse caste.
>>98107449
For that tech you need resources and cooperation; you quite literally need that first before getting old realm tech back.

>>98107434
>The biggest problems of Creation aren't really ones that can be fixed through artifice
Is it possible for a N/A artifact to detect and exorcize the great curse?

>>98107456
>For that tech you need resources and cooperation
But you don't.

>>98107449
No. Leeching from Solar tech is a problem mostly because it means that other Exalts aren't focused on building the kind of shit they can actually maintain, but it's a lot lesser problem than Lunars fighting Dragon-Blooded and Sidereals being divided among themselves and mostly also at odds with Lunars instead of the Exalted Host at least at times cooperating.

>>98107462
>Is it possible for a N/A artifact to detect and exorcize the great curse?
Lytek couldn't do it even with a whole set of Artifact N/A custom designed to fool around with Exaltations. They didn't even detect it, he just suspects that there is a taint or something.

>>98107467
What the fuck are you talking about? DBs have been in charge for ages squatting on the richest fucking region in Creation and still didn't do shit.

>>98107465
Can you just make N/A artifacts appear from nowhere alone?
What about their maintenance?
The most urgent problem is exalted infighting by a huge mile.

>>98107470
So the world is doomed like this anon said >>98107456
Since it made solars insane, and the Sidereals incapable of not pointing at solars as the cause of the problem.

>>98107462
Unlikely. I mean, maybe a really permissive ST would allow it, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't 100% just refuse to let players fix the Great Curse if they had a good enough idea for it, but it wouldn't be a matter for a single Artifact. Besides, how would you build an Artifact like that without knowing about the Great Curse in the first place? I'd also say that fixing the Great Curse wouldn't wash away more than a thousand years worth of grudges and wouldn't by itself be enough to get the Exalted to get along and work together for the good of Creation.

>>98107465
You need resources or you can't craft shit. Magical materials, exotic ingredients, etc etc, it all takes resources. It's not a huge problem but it is A Problem That Needs To Be Managed. You can't just sit on a jade mine and craft or whatever else because any resources you take are resources other people will want to take and make conflict over. On that note

>cooperation
You need people to cooperate with you because otherwise they will actively intercede to stop you. You do not get to build the Creation's-Problems-Fix-Inator because Joe Dawncaste steps in and cuts your head off, because Joe Dawncaste and fifty other people with an interest in their own version of the world existing doesn't trust your idea of 'fixing' the world.

>>98107477
That reply is almost completely disconnected from what I said. How does DBs ruling the richest part of the world magically make Exalted infighting not a major problem, even the most major of all problems? If you meant the point about leeching on Solar tech, it's equally irrelevant to that point.

>>98107479
3e solars can, actually.

>>98107490
>You need resources or you can't craft shit
Resources are so trivial to obtain that this isn't even worth discussing.
>You need people to cooperate with you
No you don't.

>>98107493
Not for free; you are paying XP

>>98107483
>Besides, how would you build an Artifact like that without knowing about the Great Curse in the first place?
Metagaming, more common than you might think. Sometimes the form of metagaming is the Storyteller throwing you a bone and giving you a lead.

>>98107500
>No you don't.
This nuh uh shit is really boring. Why not actually contest with an argument?

>>98107508
There's nothing to argue about here. You can make an artifact all alone in a cave. You don't need anyone's cooperation.

>>98107512
>There's nothing to argue about here. You can make an artifact all alone in a cave. You don't need anyone's cooperation.
You can if people let you. If people aren't cooperating, then people will stop you, even if you've hidden yourself alone in a cave. Between prophecy and investigation effects you actually do need to care about other people because they will care about you.

>>98107519
"People" are not omniscient and omnipotent you retard. It doesn't matter if they "let" me or not, I'm doing it regardless and there's nothing they can do.

>>98107519
>If people aren't cooperating, then people will stop you,
People can't cooperate with the great curse around, Grabowski accidentally killed any aesop and social criticism with it.

>>98107524
>"People" are not omniscient and omnipotent you retard. It doesn't matter if they "let" me or not, I'm doing it regardless and there's nothing they can do.
>what is a sidereal
>what is prophecy
>what is a wyld hunt
>what is an investigation charm
Why would people be very specifically looking for a twilight trying to build crazy artifacts that could wreck the world? You can surely think of a few reasons, because you've just been listing a load of them.

>>98107546
Weren't those nerfed to the ground in 3e? And there's a lunar elder brewing up bio weapons just fine.

>>98107512
>>98107524
To be clear this is the kind of supervillain activity that I think will get Gold Faction Sidereals to drop Cult of the Illuminated Solars squads on your ass if the Bronze Faction isn't on the ball enough.

>>98107528
They can, and did for a good chunk of the First Age. Great Curse is dumb and unnecessary, but it doesn't prevent positive outcomes on a short-to-medium timescale. It'll fuck things up eventually but not immediately.

>>98107550
The thing you are ignoring is that old real tech wasn't just a N/A artifact but complex systems of interconnected manses all channeling their power towards one miraculous purpose.
That's way way more difficult and ambitious than fucking around in a lab to make monsters.

>>98107546
You're acting like a paranoid schizophrenic. Sidereal prophecies have always been dog shit and you keep expecting some absolutely fucking retarded overcontrived scene where I'm hammering out a daiklaive butt naked in the square of some major Realm city with my solar dick.

I will just make the artifact and there is genuinely nothing you can do to stop me. This is just another part of what makes it so fucking bullshit and so comically easy to break the game with.

Though in reality even with this muchs hit going for you it will still be a challenge to actually get even close to fixing Creation.

>>98107555
They didn't in 3e, the first age was every exalted in a rat race trying to be God King, even Sidereals.

>>98107567
>I will just make the artifact and there is genuinely nothing you can do to stop me.
You would not believe the number of times I've heard and antagonist say this and be wrong.

>>98107555
The great cursed was a way for an ST to get their players to make their own problems in a game about demigods. Most people here are autistic enough to do that or their own or too autistic to care about the consequences of most of the Limit Break scenarios.
Either that or the guy had a severe problem problem with the PCs being inconsistent and this was a way to strangle it.

>>98108067
Considering the examples of the great curse, it is just that the game doesn't want the players acting like mature adults like those of pulps.

It feels weird to see people hate on the Great Curse when I've only ever had instances of Limit Break improve games, with the sole exceptions of scenarios where our group chickened out instead of going whole hog and suffered for it. I'm biased because I've played a lot of Demake and Essence but still.

I get hating Limit. I think a resource track that the character doesn't know about and which interactions with are supposedly invisible to them (they can't tell when they gain/lose Limit) but can be used as a charm cost. Even worse it's a charm cost that's shown to be pretty harsh every time it's used and pretty straightforwardly there as a way to stop players spamming an ability in a way they can't get around - but the CHARACTERS don't know the cost exists, and have no reason not to be spamming charms like the 2e capbreaker or the 3e persona skill crossover charm. There is no tell, or else the Great Curse going undetected makes even less sense. The character/player divide is grating whenever it comes to a Limit cost, and that's not the only part that's bad about Limit.

The Limit track, as this thing you've got to fill in with funny money before Limit Break ever even goes off, is just way too big and useless and inconveniently hard to track for a Storyteller and the vibes to it are just wrong at every step. When limit is building up the player feels stressed because they're closing in on limit break and can see that, but the character feels nothing. When the character is limit breaking it's a high impact moment for their character but the player is pulled out of it because they don't have as much control of their character. When the character is supposed to be feeling this great relief and catharsis in the wake of the limit break, the player is pressed as all hell because they've just had the situation made so much worse and now have to dig their way out. At no point do the feelings of the player and the character match up to draw the player into the story.

>>98106122
>the devs are that ashamed of Dreams of the First Age.
As they should be.
>don't want to dwell in the past"
>"so each table can make them own".
Perfectly valid reasons, in my opinion.

>>98109476
Best Limit Break I've seen was the Baby Incident in Princes of the Universe (S2E4 or E5). They played into it rather than wishy washy "but I don't wanna" I've had at my tables.

What the fuck is a Hyperion Key?

>>98110004
A generic high tech tool used in magitech, Ink Monkeys fleshed it out.

File: 2e magitecrap.jpg (16 KB, 289x108)

16 KB JPG

>>98110004
It's kind of like an polarity rotator or a vertex screwdriver. A babble instrument with no greater meaning.