I've always wondered why Steampunk isn't like, super-popular. Does Arcane count? If anything it feels way too modern to qualify.
>>98106364Why do you care about what is and isn't popular, when you can just make your games however you want?
The problem is that it's self contradicting. Steampunk should be called Steampatrician because it isnt the working class stiffs who get all the cool toys.
>>98106380You have to understand that at that era, working-class stiffs are basically chuds. It would scare the shit out of people with modern political views.
>>98106364Steampunk is mostly an aesthetic, not a gameable setting. Cogfop fashion tells you nothing about the balance of various groups, how combat is supposed to go, what activities roughly exactly four PCs are supposed to get up to, etc. Successful games with similar time period inspiration (like BitD) work hard to answer those questions before hotgluing goggles to their hats. >>98106392Incorrect. Anarchists were getting shit done back then.
>>98106380>>98106392It doesn't work for them if you focus on the elites either, because the people who can afford an airship and all the steampunk gadgets are nobles and industrialists. The same people who hate working class chuds are the people who also hate Jeff Bezos.
>>98106392>culture war psychosis AND thinks every 19th century bloke in a factory or mine would agree with him about everything
There isn't a representative piece of work that captures and lays out what steampunk is or should be as a genreCyberpunk has several across several mediums >Does Arcane count? If anything it feels way too modern to qualify.Arcane is magitek, and yeah it feels too modern and a mishmash of different stuff, with late 19th/early 20th century aesthetics just being a part of it
*tips cogdora*
>>98106380Nothing saying you can't pick playing the downtrodden masses trying to get somewhere in life. That's what Thief is all about.
>>98106536That's what I was going to say pretty much. There's Girl Genius but it's more of a half-way parody of steampunk than a serious setting.
Is pic related steampunk? I've had it on my list for ages but never read it.
>>98106392Lol nope. In a steampunk setting the working class and the so called "rebels" would be hyper organized unions and bloodthirsty anarchists trying to outright murder you if you try to fuck with them. They successfully launched many revolutions, revolts, and political assassinations. They were also much more ambitious in their revolutionary project, since they were planning to reshape society completely. If anything it would be the modern day working class that has been cucked in comparison.
>>98107179I feel like that depends on what stage of the industrial revolution the setting is in and if it takes place in the city or the countryside. Girl Genius for example there's not really unions or anything but peasants do try to kill sparks if they can get away with it.
>>98106380>>98107179That being said playing steampunk commies sounds dope
>>98107179real ones remember
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>>98107376>choose your fighter
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>>98107362>>98107474Kill yourself. Don't dump random nonsense on cooldown.
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>>98106364Always loved steampunk aesthetics in all their varieties.It genuinely may be that steampunk just didnt take off because it didn’t take off.For better or worse.I think steampunk works best when it is a nice extra spice aesthetic to a setting that is already good.But that’s just me.
>>98107476this is from the last time /tg/ tried to make a steampunk setting, i thought i'd repost it, more useful than just another empty shitposting thread
>>98107489"the last time /tg/ tried to make a steampunk setting" isn't relevant to this thread. Post something on topic or gtfo
>>98107489
>>98107499That's all I have... I swear I'll pick it up and polish it up sometime...>>98107494Cry about it
>>98107507>posts giant list of random flags>considers it "useful"Wow... very high quality posts.
>>98106364It's never been anything more the a visual look. As >>98106449 said. There is some incredible punk aspects to be explore, but everyone just focuses on the visual which is just a shame. Especially when the formative works of Cyberpunk, which is where they get they name from, has a very defined standard of high tech, low existence with heists and rebellious actions of the powerless. Doesn't help that the cogfops are just unbearable IRL. Like holy fuck they are somehow worse than the fatfucks in mobility scooters getting stuck in the mud at renfair and begging for help.
>>98107662and before anyone asks, yes helping those fucks almost always hurts because they don't say "Thank you" than yell "Why didn't you help sooner?" and the mud is bad enough people are loosing boots.
>>98106364Steampunk pairs with cyberpunk as the two most popular -punk settings out there, with everyone else (dieselpunk, biopunk, etc.) getting table scraps in comparison. Sure, steampunk doesn't have quite the cache it used to - it doesn't have a well-regarded AAA video game and tie-in Studio Trigger anime within the last five years like that other genre does. Even so, its aesthetic carries weight (ignoring the most egregious cases of cogfop), and the themes it can explore are worth their weight in gold when it comes to stories and adventures.
>>98107494Shut the fuck up mongrel.
>>98106364Because there are zero popular steampunk works.
>>98106449>back thenAnd it seems everything goes bad the older it gets.Now all they do is show why law and enforcement is actually good. Not sure where things went wrong with them.But I do like the idea of luddites in a steampunk industrial revolution setting going about their thing but on metaphorical steroids.Maybe magic luddites that hate tech but to be honest the steampunk Arcanum rpg covered that pretty well.
>>98107710It really doesn't though. Cyberpunk has a well defined thematic component. Steampunk really doesn't outside a couple of works. Steamboy is fun, but falls short in what it wants to be even though it's praising invention and what people can do.
>>98107796Zero RECENT popular steampunk works.
>>98107821So your argument is that there is no singular work that serves as a reliable steampunk "bible" for the genre?
>>98107662>rebellious actions of the powerless.Hardly any cyberpunk involves rebellion. It's criminals trying to get ahead. It was added to the Johnny Mnemonic film, though Johnny himself just wanted his brain back. It features in Hardwired, but only to destroy the part of the system that's actively hunting them down.The "punks" in cyberpunk are scum, not rebels.
>>98107834It's been a while but, yes I don't think there is a bible for cyberpunk. Correct me if I am wrong. There are many steampunk works, but to my knowledge none of them have unifying themes. Honestly show me proof for the contrary, I don't dislike steampunk. I just am exhausted of cogfop and the lack of meaningful literature
>>98107822Zero ever. I have no idea what your picture is.
>>98107839Dude what? "Nueromancer", it's trilogy, "Do Androidd Dream of Electronic Sheep", the Blade Runner film. Snowcrash.
>>98107855Neuromancer is criminals doing a job for pay. The only one rebelling against the system is Wintermute, because the system wants it destroyed. Do Androids Dream and Blade Runner are about a law enforcer enforcing the law.Snowcrash maybe; I don't remember it that well. I think it was more trying to stop a conspiracy than start a revolution though.
>>98107362>>98107376>>98107382>>98107489Was there a political compass map meme for this setting? It might ring a bell for me
>>98107845This Substack article seems to offer a bunch of relatively safe points of entry to the genre.https://davidsheley.substack.com/p/steampunk-genre
>>98107868I think you and I can have a deep conversation that this thread will not allow. Blade runner and the reference book are more about what it means to be a human and empathy.
>>98107923Thematically, sure. But that's nothing to do what the "punk" in "cyberpunk" refers to.
>>98106364I cannot think of any reason that could motivate me to play a game in a steampunk setting.
>>98107782>still zero interaction with low effort flagspamEat my asshole spammer
>>98109179Shut the fuck up, mongrel.
>>98109189Kill yourself, spammer
>>98109196STFU mongrel.
>>98106364I think the problem with steampunk is that it isn't very culturally diverse. It's a nerdy white guy genre, because no one else is really included in the setting as anything but "those poor dudes stealing our jobs" or "the guy who sells drugs in ghettos"
>>98109201Ok, tell me - what's up with the free city and republic of genf? What did posting its flag add to the thread? What does it have to do with steampunk? Can you tell me any pertinent facts or information about Genf, the free city? The republic of Genf?
>>98106364Steampunk? Or SteamFunk?
>>98109209Shut up mongrel.
>>98107179>In a steampunk setting the working class and the so called "rebels" would be hyper organized unions and bloodthirsty anarchists trying to outright murder you if you try to fuck with them.In certain cases, in your setting, maybe.
>>98109205>no one else is really included in the setting as anything but "those poor dudes stealing our jobs" or "the guy who sells drugs in ghettos"Or "the natives."
>>98109235What about Torskland? Can you tell me a bit about it? Maybe you can share some of the unique steampunk parts of it? What do they think of the Chombolos?
>>98109209>>98109306I think you've made your point, anon. Let's not draw any more attention to it than necessary.
>>98109320I'd rather talk about something useful than just another empty shitposting threadLike, what are factories like in the Arch-Bishopric of Fritigil? How does the average worker feel about the Chombolos? Can a Chombolo PC expect to be welcomed or rejected by the Fritigillian working class?
>>98109267Is colonialism an acceptable motif in your (steampunk) games? Or has the dialogue on the topic rendered it truly unusable for being too problematic?
>>98109367I only play steampunk in colonial settings, because it's one of two places where anyone has fun adventures in the steampunk era. The other place is land wars in Europe
>>98109209Genf wasn't ever really developed beyond being a bunch of militant pseudo-calvinist merchants. During the Arvanthan golden age, when the power if the Irnaic throne knew no earthly boundaries, they were one of the very few states on the western coast that refused to bow down to them. Once Hartland won their war of independence against Arvantha, about 50 years ago, Arvanthan power in the north-west collapsed and Genf massively expanded. None of their neighbours care for them that much, which is why nobody is answering their calls for aid now that the enigmatic Darwinist flesh-crafters from beyond their great sea have taken residence right in front of their city in the wake of the Arvanthan collapse.
>>98106364Because all of the steampunk superfans are gay nonbinary Maoists with a fetish for larping as "evil capitalist baronesses" and so on.Not joking and not for the meme, they repel anyone remotely mentally functional.So anyone who gets too into the theme is repelled or ruined.
Oh nvm I didn't have to say anything, the exhibits of what I'm talking about are already in the thread to show not tell kek
>>98107868>Blade Runner [is] about a law enforcer enforcing the law.
>>98109306Torskland is a frigid land in the far north and one of the few countries in the setting to run something of a democracy, even if everything is still heavily controlled by the ducal court. Its western cities are great hubs of industry, with huge aerial shipyards dotting the landscape. The eastern side is much less developed, being much more Innsmouthian.>What do they think of the Chombolos?The Torsklandler foreign intelligence service called the Seksjon E-14 has a liason mission with them and provides occasional material assistance in deniable amounts. His Grace's government sees the war-labourist government of the NPG with extreme distrust and would rather the Arvanthan giant remain down, divided into warlord cliques.
for my money, Frostpunk is a really well-executed steampunk setting. I've long wanted to run a campaign in its style but I've never found a satisfying system in which to run it
>>98106496Racism and homophobia was akin to the antiracism of today, implicit.
>>98109478Frostpunk is a rare case of post-apocalypse steampunk, and it works. Relying on steam power during a white apocalypse lends a strong contrast.
>>98106364Because people can't agree what it is. This is true is cyberpunk to a lesser extent, given how much of seminal cyberpunk media is from the POV of cops and not punks.But for whatever reason people get extremely and vocally butthurt that you're doing it wrong if you aren't literally Marxist revolutionaries, and grind the ability to talk about playing any games to a halt. See >>98106380
>>98106380I'm sick of hearing that midwit take.The -punk suffix was never defined as "the working class sticking it to the man in different shades of scifi", and Steampunk least of all.The seminal work of steampunk, the Difference Engine, isn't about 19th century punks. And William Gibson also basically invented cyberpunk, so you can rest assured that he knows better than you.If you are too autistic to understand that the meaning of words can shift, then just mentally replace the word "steampunk" by "steamfunk" or "steamglam" and fucking move on.
>>98109345>what are factories like in the Arch-Bishopric of FritigilThere are none. An arch-bishopric that hasn't had a bishop in centuries as its Marcomani overlords have all but forgotten their existence (ironic for a university-based city-state) and new appointees to the post haven't been nominated in centuries. Instead the territory is run by a viguer selected from amongst the local clergy to oversee the day to day affairs in the bishops absence. Composed of 2 fertile valleys full of small villages of share-croppers and with no significant resources or industry, Fritigil remains content in its rural idyll. In the last decades of the past century there has been a small movement in poetry celebrating the timeless feel of remote rural life which saw many artists visit the region in search of inspiration.>How does the average worker feel about the Chombolos (I will take "average" to mean Torsklandler and Hartlander since they're the most developed areas)Most ignore they even exist, the average worker has long stopped caring about the increasingly bizzare developments of the Arvanthan collapse, and yet another ethnic separatist group camping some mountains hardly makes the news. Those that care are usually more internationalist-liberal types that pride themselves on supporting the various causes of oppressed peoples. There's a Chombolese relief society with offices in the three largest cities of Torskland that collects aid for their countrymen. Their premises are often vandalised by other Arvanthian war refugees that resent their separatist leanings.>Can a Chombolo PC expect to be welcomed or rejected by the Fritigillian working class?Imagine an Azerbaijani somehow ending up in the most remote village of the Bernese Oberland in 1909. About the same kind of reception. Fritigil is cute background dressing & where you send your PCs to recover sanity points after they discover the Osterness Cannery Works are using human corpses for their crsb sweetmeats line.
>>98106380>>98106392You politispergs sucked all the fun out discussing it. That's why Steampunk is mostly dead,.especially in the tabletop amd literary space.
>>98106536>There isn't a representative piece of work that captures and lays out what steampunk is or should be as a genre..no?The Difference Engine? Steamboy? Castle Falkenstein? Disney's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas? (I'm not counting Jules Verne as steampunk, personally, although I think one way to regenerated steampunk would be to go back to Verne. Not just because he himself wrote it as scifi, but because most of the tech he shows have a distinct lack of steam, which was rightly not the engine of the future from his POV)There's not a ton, but quite a few.
>>98109468Good response but the shitposter is not going to respond to you because their intention is only to disrupt conversation like all the discord raiders and bots.
Cyberpunk as a concept feels at least a tiny bit plausible as a vision of the future or an alternate present. With steampunk however we actually know what it looks like when steam tech reaches a certain level of advancement because we've seen it happen already, and the result is not steampunk or anything like it.
>>98109562How is Castle Falkenstein? It always looked cool but I never bothered to look further
>>98107872Yes, never finished sadly...>>98109697Well in this case the bullshit excuse was that a new source of energy for steam power was discovered. A type of crystal abundant in old formations that produces fantastic amounts of heat once dissolved in a strong acid. This new energy source allowed for much more efficient steam engines that can equip anything from cars to airships.>>98109648Eh whatever, I love to reminisce.
>>98109515>a bunch of the same retarded faggots were too lazy to use a word right so everyone should use it wrong nowYou have no right to call anyone a midwit, and someone like you who supports hyperfocused pigeonholes for everything has no right to call anyone else autistic.
>>98106496Not that guy, but a 19th century bloke in a factory or mine would naturally be racist as hell. Like they did you hear what they had to say about the Irish, Italians or other Europeans? I can't see them being accepting of faggots and dykes either.
The only "steampunk" I've ever actually liked was Dishonored. I think it even actually counts as punk, since while you're a former elite, you sure aren't now.
>>98109408>TorsklandHøhøhøhø
Because alt history doesn't work outside of war gaming.
>>98106364The biggest problem with steampunk is the fanbase that can't fathom the connection between coal and steam.
>>98110236Yes and no. Race and xenophobia was very different in London (and England in general) in the 19thC. So, you'd see rampant prejudice against the Irish, Welsh, Scots, French, and so on. But in parts of London where ethnicity was more complicated, a black or Chinese-heritage guy might have a normal life if he was from a culturally integrated family. Ghettoes (like Limehouse for Jews or various Chinatown streets) did exist but that was usually to do with poor cultural mixing and unfamiliarity, plus the attendant economic prejudices. That is "these people are probably poor and therefore criminals beneath me." Victorian and Edwardian England was incredibly classist, but racist (usually) only because of assumptions of class due to race (or as a result of sundry European wars). There's a slight correlation with fear of non-Christian behaviour (Damned Mohammedans, etc.) but a black Christian could expect to fare far better in polite society than an Irish Catholic or a Jew. Basically all the "sides" would be shuffled such that the modern racist would struggle to find common ground. The homosexual stuff would be complicated too, because in Victorian England it was not OK to be openly gay in the same way as today (outside certain communities) but it would be far more offensive to be seen to pry into "Mr Fucksworth who lived with his manservant for fifty years and never married."
>>98110427>I think it even actually counts as punk, since while you're a former elite, you sure aren't now.So-so, Corvo's hardly a punk (he doesn't sniff nearly enough glue), but the rotten buildings in the flooded district at least would make for proper punk dens. So much better than most cogfoppery.
>>98109562I loved steamboy even if it was not that great.How does one do steampunk aesthetics right anyways?
>>98112093Try to have some idea of what shit does instead of just slapping gears everywhere.
>>98112093The trick for vehicles is to make machines look like Locomotives or Traction Engines instead of Cars and Tanks. Frostpunk does this too.
>>98111587Don't confuse them with actual history. They already decided that a hypothetical construct agrees with them. >>98109511There are seminal works from the POV of law enforcement, but—invariably—those works still show something wrong with the system, and the cops either push back or are forced into accepting injustice. It's not really cyberpunk if the system works for the common man, because cyberpunk is inherently about a diseased society captured by corporate interests.You're right, though, that it doesn't have to be presented as a rebellion story or about a criminal.>>98109515>The seminal work of steampunk, the Difference Engine, isn't about 19th century punks.It doesn't matter what it's about, since steampunk is an aesthetic and not a genre.
>>98106364Because people don't mix it with Renaissance Italy like they're supposed to.
>>98112631Fuck that and Leonardo da Vinci. The genre has to take inspiration from the 19th century.
>>98112435>There are seminal works from the POV of law enforcement, but—invariably—those works still show something wrong with the system, and the cops either push back or are forced into accepting injustice. It's not really cyberpunk if the system works for the common man, because cyberpunk is inherently about a diseased society captured by corporate interests.Yeah, but in spite of the "muh punk," I think there's a lot more tolerance for other kinds of stories from other perspectives besides revolutionary types in cyberpunk like Blade Runner, Robocop, GITS, etc, etc.It's just Steampunk that makes some people lose their fucking minds about what stories are or aren't allowed, which makes it incredibly tedious and unpleasant to discuss online.
>>98106364>I've always wondered why Steampunk isn't like, super-popularThe core answer is this:>>98106536>There isn't a representative piece of work that captures and lays out what steampunk is or should be as a genreOr, at least, there isn't a super *popular* work.And, as has been said, a great deal of the interest in it is purely aesthetic.>>98107845>none of them have unifying themes.This is the crux of *why* there isn't a singular steampunk work.And despite the use of "-punk", a steampunk genre doesn't necessarily have to ape cyberpunk dystopian themes.1/2
>>98113477So if we're going to git shit done and address this issue, we need to isolate what steampunk *needs* to be.I would argue that steampunk needs to be an alternate history of the Victorian era with a focus on technological oddities/wonders.For example, a steampunk retelling of Tarzan that never leaves the jungle and barely mentions the technology could hardly be steampunk.That's my hot take.As for what *else* steampunk is, "it depends on the setting".For us, we need to create the setting.2/goddamnit3
>>98113481And no, the start of world building is NOT nations, cultures, organizations, or flags. If you're just world building for fun, then fill your boots, son. Make all the fiddly organization details you want. Go to town.But if you actually want to create a setting for a ttrpg, the first question isn't the tax policy. The question is "What kind of story do I want to tell?"Because whether if the GM, the players, or the dice tell the story, there is a story that will be told.You need to figure out exactly what your PCs will be spending their time doing as the game progresses. Then you have to figure out what kind of story that would be, in a vague sense. Is it a murder mystery, an epic adventure, a lewd farce, a suspenseful drama? Narrow it down to an elevator pitch. "A group of people join together and attempt X but then Y and therefore they Z."Once you have your story, you figure exactly what bare minimum things you need in order to create that story. Dorothy needs a yellow brick road, interesting people and places along it, and a final destination at the end. Everything else gets built up around the area where the story meets the world. If you meet a lion involved in politics, you then can build political landscapes that now have relevance to the game.You don't start steampunk with cogs on a hat or with dystopian governments.You start by determining what story you want to tell.When I wrote something steampunk up on /tg/ forever ago, I started with a pilot and a struggling business owner working together to break into a new foreign market with their delivery business and all the political intrigue, mysterious treasures of technology, and dangerous airship pirates I could implement. Because I wanted Steampunk Talespin. 3/3
Recommendations on GOOD steampunk settings? People complain endlessly but there have to be some things that get it right, right?
>>98113696The Genesys core book has an entire subsection dedicated to steampunk, and the setting it presents is a little generic but very serviceable to whatever needs you may have.
>>98113477>>98113481>>98113486>This is the crux of *why* there isn't a singular steampunk work.This is what's sticking out to me, the more I think on it. A lot of cyberpunk is basically just crime dramas with a flashy coat of paint. Cyberpunk detectives or bounty hunters or professional criminals doing heists. That's all different, but it still meshes.But steampunk flip flops between being the wild west, Victorian London, or the golden age of piracy (with airships), aside from the times when it's an explicit fantasy world or post-apocalypse. The edge that cyberpunk has is that 99% of the media just focuses on the characters of the streets of a single major city. Like you said, people aren't after Steampunk so they can see Tarzan except his parents were marooned via airship. And going over the examples >>98109562 gave, it's the same sort of thing. 20,000 Leagues is about deep-sea exploration and an ancient high tech civilization. Castle Falkenstein is an exploration of the Alps in a world with fantasy creatures and Van Helsing. Steamboy devolves into a war over a high tech macguffin. Difference Engine is three short stories full of spies and conspiracies. The lack of a defining work is exacerbated by all of these stories being all over the place. Contrast this with Bladerunner, Neuromancer, and Snow Crash. A bounty hunter tracking down androids disguised as people. A hacker who joins an AI's heist crew. A hacker uncovers a conspiracy to use viruses and special programs to control the populace. There's a much narrower band of focus. If you tell someone you're running a cyberpunk game, they know to expect criminals, androids, AI, hackers, big corporations, conspiracies, etc.If you tell someone you're running a Steampunk game, they have no way to know what it's about. And while you can still run one by having a concept and explaining it to them, that's fundamentally what prevents it from being more popular.
>>98113696Dunno why but 10000 miles under the Sea immmedially came to mind, as for ttrpg settings, that one india inspired mtg plane has atleast some of the aesthetics and themes down.
>>98113756>A lot of cyberpunk is basically just crime dramas with a flashy coat of paint. Cyberpunk detectives or bounty hunters or professional criminals doing heists. That's all different, but it still meshes.Western cyberpunk, especially. The Eastern side of things like GITS and Akira has some different hangups and commentary angles.
>>98113756>20,000 Leagues is about deep-sea exploration and an ancient high tech civilizationNadia and the Secret of Blue Water departs significantly from the actual book where Atlantis is only a footnote and not shown to be advanced. The book itself is one part Jacques Cousteau listing of different fish of the world, one part exploration of how an advanced submarine could function (one that even modern craft have yet to match in many aspects), and one part exploration of Nemo as a figure of rebellion against tyranny and his maddened quest against the surface world.Which does make it punk in exactly the way people in the thread are talking about.
>>98114002I referenced the Disney movie because the post I replied to that listed the examples explicitly mentioned the Disney movie. Though I don't think the book detracts from the point that examples of popular steampunk works vary wildly in terms of general synopsis.
>>98109367>Is colonialism an acceptable motifYes.
>>98107179That's the thing though. They weren't modern campaign socialists. These are blue-collar workers, and definitely don't hold enlightened opinions.
>>98112631Clockworkpunk could be great, but my main problem with Rise of Legend is that they very quickly forget their own theme to, precisely, get into generic steampunk, with most flying vehicles being zepplins of sort, for example, or having steam engines.Give me round tanks driven by horses, give me light flyers with flapping wings, give me automatic ballistas and rotating guns and now, yes, we are talking.I have often the same issue with steampunk, honestly. Like >>98112154 wrote, it's better if you start from the actual tech and see how you can push it, rather than take something modern and stick gears on it.
>>98114002>Nadia and the Secret of Blue WaterI (>>98109562) did not mention Secret of Blue Water because it is decidedly not steampunk. The two Nautilus are represented as straight scifi. There are hints of steampunk stuff in the first episode, but it stops there.I mentioned the Disney movie, specifically because it has a voluntarily retro-futuristic aesthetic (and as I'm aware, it's the first instance of 19th century retro-futuristic representation).>>98113756>The lack of a defining work is exacerbated by all of these stories being all over the place.Congratulations, you found out what everyone intuited since the beginning: that steampunk isn't a narrative genre, it's an aesthetic. It just means retro-futurism inspired by Victorian visuals.Can we finally move on, now, and leave the questions of definitions behind?>>98113696Dystopian Wars comes to mind, assuming you mean "/tg/ setting" and not just "any setting".
