Why is the typical "optimal character" in TTRPGs so remarkably unlike anything approaching an "optimal character" in real life?In TTRPGs it's always about being the bestest warrior with the hardest hitting attack, whether you're actually using weapons or some other cheap bullshit like magic that lets you win battles effortlessly. But whatever the exact method is, it's always all about individual combat potential and nothing else, even in settings that are ostensibly just the real world or some slight deviation of it.Meanwhile in real life the ability to fight is probably near the bottom of a person's priorities. Most people go their whole lives without so much as a schoolyard brawl and they're no worse off for it. Hell even real life soldiers in active wars seldom see any action, and even when they do, marksmanship is like the least important skill in their skillset (very much unlike what it would be in a game with guns like, say, Shadowrun or Dark Heresy).
>>98114071>Why is the typical "optimal character" in TTRPGs so remarkably unlike anything approaching an "optimal character" in real life?Tabletop RPGs are not real life. Hope this helps.
>>98114071Because the real life power build of "be born a rich man's son" isn't narratively compelling you very silly person.
>>98114071>why do people who get in fights to the death need to know how to fight more than people that do not get in fights at allIt's a mystery.
>>98114071Because typical RPG characters live very different lives from typical real pepole, or even typical fictitious people in the same setting, at least during the period of their lives when the game happens.
>>98114109Pre-modern soldiers rarely fought more than two battles in their entire careers.
>>98114071Seems your question is more "why are TTRPGs so often about fighting?".The corollary being "why are fantasy and fantasies so often about fighting?".
>>98114122Bit of exaggeration and dependent on time/place, but I see what you're getting at. What they usually did get a lot of practice in, though, is border raids (either committing or stopping) and internal security (the ever popular "kill X bandits" quest), and these are conveniently very well represented in the average RPG campaign one way or another.
OP and itt: People who have only played D&D
play a BRP game or something
Because a level 1 character in an rpg is basically already above most real life soldiers let alone regular people. The higher you go, the more superhuman they might as well be.
>>98114207A level 4 D&D fighter can kill a bear singlehandedly.
>>98114093Even if you spawned out of thin air buttnaked in the middle of the woods in a warzone you'd still be in the shits if you were "built" like an RPG character.
>>98114122Okay. How is that relwvant? Is there something about most RPG characters living very different lives from most people in the same setting that was unclear?>>98114131And a big part of the answer would, of course, be in something pointed out by OP: most people don't fight much or at all in their actual lives. Fighting's exciting as an idea in part because of that.
>>98114160And yet still, actually fighting was like their least important skillset.
>>98114071>Play hyper small scale cooperative wargame>"Why are optimal builds so good at violence? This is stupid!"
>>98114071it's almost like games were made to find entertainment in fictional risky scenarios we usually avoid in real lifealso>it's always all about individual combat potential and nothing elsehave you tried not playing D&D?
>>98114071I think the problem is the inability of players to come up with lateral solutions. This might be primarily due to the inherent perceptive limitations of the medium, as the players can see only what the GM describes and no more, and often times that already limited interpretation can be faulty.So even in a scenario where a player (or character, or real life person) might be crafty enough to figure out a solution, and indeed would have done so if they were actually physically transported into that situation, they can't do it from their limited perspective of seeing only what the GM has thought to describe. And getting the information you might need, which you may not even know you might need until you happen to hear about it, leaving you without an easy way to even know what to ask, can be an extensive and frustrating task. So people just use brute force to get it over with the least amount of friction, and therefore value the character options that directly enhance that.
In ttrpgs you go dungeon crawling to kill monsters and get treasure.In real life you go to your shitty 9-5 and listen to middle-aged office creatures talk about Starbucks and Taylor Swift.
>>98114678>So even in a scenario where a player (or character, or real life person) might be crafty enough to figure out a solution, and indeed would have done so if they were actually physically transported into that situation, they can't do it from their limited perspective of seeing only what the GM has thought to describe. And getting the information you might need, which you may not even know you might need until you happen to hear about it, leaving you without an easy way to even know what to ask, can be an extensive and frustrating task.I've been playing RPGs for 30 years and the neatly sums the biggest issue I've always experienced. And I feel like modern games are making it worse.
>>98114071Because for a lot of ttrpg's you are fighting. Not focusing on being an accountant or farmer or cobbler.seems pretty self explanatory. Are you perhaps retarded?
>>98114093>>98114720>>98115407those aren't IRL optimal characters
>>98118101Who or what is?
>>98118206Internet shitposters/masturbators.
>>98114071>Why is the typical "optimal character" in the infantry during a world war so remarkably unlike anything approaching an "optimal character" in other circumstances?
>>98114071Well, the practical reason most games are multiplayer is so people can enjoy an activity together. Also, many people enjoy competition, so the games are about conflicts between people.
>>98114071optimal relative to what the game is asking you to do. a game built around combat encounters is going to reward combat builds, that's just how design works. plenty of games don't do this at all and have completely different axes of optimization, you're just describing a specific genre and acting like it's the whole hobby
>>98114071I'm pretty sure being able to cast Wish outdoes any successful person in any field IRL ever.
>>98118206Solo gamers
>>98118206Anyone who can live off the grid and make a pipe bomb.
>>98114071Original DND was literally based on this concept, fun fact. Like for reference, a low level outdoor combat encounter that was plausible in old school DND was 200 goblins, and you were obviously not supposed to unironically fight that out to completion, but rather try to get out alive using shenanigans.
>>98120325I also like the original dnd concept of gold for levels, just cause killing stuff incentivizes you to focus on taking unnecessary risks as opposed to recognizing that the weird monster you encountered probably should not be poked in the eye, lest it pokes back. Obviously killing to get stronger is counter intuitive to how it works IRL, and flips the task of killing into a means to prep for killing, instead of prepping as a means to killing.
>>98114071HYTNPD&D?>>98114678This is truly the crux of the issue. The entire utility of the ttrpg over a vrpg is that you are unrestricted and able to engage your environment with endless utility. A good GM habit is to establish from the get-go that a reasonable and brief line of questioning is always permissible and reasonable action receives the benefit of the doubt.If players are in a long, decrepit stone hallway and somebody wants to pick up a rock or pluck an old rusty iron torch off the wall it is reasonable to assume these are present. If they are in a cave and say “is there a fissure around or an opening that might be a path around this obstacle/enemy” there’s no reason not to indulge and at least roll for the likelihood that they can find something. Unless you’re autistically planning airtight dungeons it’s always good to reward players for ingenuity or improvisation.
>>98114071I once ran a campaign that was 70% adventuring and combat to retrieve and artefact and 30% diplomacy and social graces once it was returned to its rightful owner. Was fucking hilarious having these hard bitten adventurers being completely out of their depth for the final chapter.You have to give players a reason to not ‘optimise’ their characters and you do it by throwing them into unexpected situations.
>>98114071Real life? In real life you don't do fucking anything yourself. You simply pay someone else to do it for you. And it's astoundingly boring and unsatisfying. The only stat that matters in real life is how much money you have. That's why Musk and Bezos are constantly gushed about despite being borderline retarded and unable to win a fight against the average rat.>>98120388>>98114678You need to factor in that players will never consider solutions they consider boring, and the most "lateral thinking" solutions are usually boring as shit. Circumventing the problem entirely. Gamers are there to entertain themselves so they will self-steer away from things they consider unentertaining.
>>98120335>Obviously killing to get stronger is counter intuitive to how it works IRLThe fuck are you trying to say? Killing to get stronger is EXACTLY how it works IRL. You improve by doing. Picking up gold should not make you better at anything at all.
>>98120694if anything it should make you worse at everything
>>98114071The optimal character in GURPS is typically a guy with very high stats, high enough to be good at every skill not just combat ones. I would consider this similar to the optimal character IRL, somebody with a lot of natural talent in a variety of fields that they excel in.
>>98120335>gold as xp>bankers massively outlevel the rest of the populace>turn into dragonsHuh, there’s something there.
how is intelligence always such a shit stat unless literal magic is involved
>>98121916Ah, well that’s because*stuffs you into a locker*
>>98114071>why are the most optimal characters in a combat-focused game the ones who focus the most on combat?It’s a question that answers itself.
>>98122917There's no such thing as a combat-focused game.
>>98114071>blocks your path
>>98114071This isn't even true in the most fighting centric games like d&d. There's always need for good knowledge skills, good charisma skills and other utility, in addition to good saves which would include many things outside of combat like interacting with magical artifacts and resisting charms(equivalent of computer skills in sci fi). Nice bait thread op, very faggy of you.
>>98122930
>>98122921If that was true, this thread wouldn’t exist because the in-game optimal choices wouldn’t be so heavily skewed towards combat.
>>98122937>There's always need for good knowledge skills, good charisma skills and other utilityalmost never, actuallyand even when there's a """need""" it doesn't contribute much
>>98122943then you have a shit dm, what, you just run hostile enemy encounters over and over again?
>>98122950>fail a super duper important diplomacy check>NPC calls you stinky>fail a combat>dielol
>>98122957so you do have a shit dm who can't play the game properly, good to have that confirmed. you can end the thread now.
>>98114089FPBP>>98114071To add to this, it's because that world is usually infested with dangerous creatures or in some form of pseudo medieval stasis. You're also ignoring that many systems have non-combat skills that even combat-focused characters can invest into without any real detriment. In fact, it would only really be to their benefit.Think about it this way: In a world where a cult forming to try and summon a literal demon is just another tuesday and dragons can just swoop in to steal something shiny whenever the fuck they want, why wouldn't you focus on making yourself into an unkillable badass who can kill anything that attacks them before they themselves are killed?
>>98114071I'd agree with you but I once had a party of a warrior, rogue, and wizard (core spells and classes only) and they played off of each other so well it was truly a sight to behold. And before anyone says they each were just "optimal" they were not even fucking close. In fact anytime they tried go out of their way and fight shit on their own they would get completely stomped.
>>98114071>Most people go their whole lives without so much as a schoolyard brawl and they're no worse off for it.I wasn't aware we were playing an RPG where we play as most people. I'm going to roll a Black Amazon Warehouse Worker as my next character, it should go well because my friend is rolling a Hispanic Construction Worker and the other is rolling a White Female HR Manager.
>>98114593No? In the case of a soldier it was the thing they existed for.
>>98121916The value of intelligence in real life is lateral problem solving which is harder in rpgs ( >>98114678 gives a reason)Most other benefits of intelligence such as improved memory, quick thinking, and absorbing background knowledge cannot be acquired by stats as they are meta traits.Add in that stupid players playing smart characters are limited by the players intelligence you get an ability that doesn't contribute.It doesn't help that it is weirdly fractured into wisdom and intelligence in d&d.
>>98114089Fpbp
>>98118206real life humanity owes its success entirely to tools, so anyone who can make and use them is optimal
>>98118206Me.
