How do you view magic in a literal sense for Wizards? How do you picture them working in your setting? For Wizards, they need to understand the ins-and-outs of their spells in their entirety, they don't just vomit them out like Sorcerers or Warlocks when they want, their process is so much more meticulous.I like picturing their minds as instruments for magic, pulling it in, applying the rubric or instructions of the spell as to their understanding, measuring and balancing it with their willpower and focus, and releasing it through some means, such as a wand, staff, hand, finger, or whatever spell focus they have. A lot of people like to equate magic to science in a lot of fantasy settings which I think is retardedScience is the study of the physical and natural world while magic is very unnatural and non-physical, its extremely mutable and chaotic. The input and output of the same spells differ heavily between wizards depending on so many factors regardless of repeating the same steps, because the mind of each wizard is vastly different from each other.I like when magic is a lot more malleable and narratively involved instead of "X just happens because it just does".
>>98132215In D&D, it literally doesn't matter because the game is barely about doing anything except combat and getting to combat. And if you're playing D&D anyways, then the answer is that they do poorly conceived vancian magic shit where they perform the incantations, gestures, and other components of a spell and then save it for later.>A lot of people like to equate magic to science in a lot of fantasy settings which I think is retardedNo they don't.
>>98132438Not a lot necessarilyBut whenever I make one of these threads some asshole comes in all"Actually, magic is honestly just the same as science in fantasy, its pretty much the same thing" and I have to prove why they're wrong every time
This is a wizard
>>98132215Traditional games?
>>98132450Writing and immersion is very important for /tg/When I cast spells like conjuring food and water for my party, I describe the entire process, and they adore it while we prepare for our restsIt makes resting a lot more powerful narratively and it makes encounters during the night way more fun
>>98132443Fuck off, wonderfag.
>>98132551If only you weren't an imaginationlet otherwise you could've actually told me how, shitter
>>98132580Fuck off, wonderfag
>>98132443>"Actually, magic is honestly just the same as science in fantasy, its pretty much the same thing" and I have to prove why they're wrong every timeI've seen one fag who insisted on making the same magic-science thread for a couple months, but this is not a consistent issue at all. You're making up shit to be mad about.>>98132447Kill yourself Puckee.
An insane retard made a machine and then later a bunch of pills normies could take that enables them to cast magic like regular mages born with the ability. Before this point artificers (tool based mages) weren’t necessarily “more powerful” than natural born mages, since whoever shoots first (magic is brutal, you see) or has the best defense wins. True wizards were often seen as artificers (towers and orreries and alchemy labs and such) rather than one trick pony mages who were born with the ability (but these tricks could be truly great indeed, especially if given from some entity). Some items artificers make can perform effects that exceed natural mages. They realized this once they figured out magic is akin to a living thing, and shamans are speaking to spirits/spells. You can absolutely put them into objects. Magic rituals are closer to beseechment and can range from literally nothing to “holy shit” moments like natural disasters, or receiving the natural ability to do magic, from x or y patron/alien. Artificial magic has taken precedence over natural magic in modern day. Normies who had all the hypothetical skill - but not the natural talent - to wield magic now outnumber the much fewer naturals who are more specific, limited and specialized. Sufficient artifice won’t even require skill. The most powerful wizards just stack themselves with items and prepare AI to cast spells for them. The most talented wizards are normals for the most part since natural mages are much rarer and guild recruiters always test normies to see if they are good at it. (cont)
(cont)THEN there are wizards who contact the entities (aliens, the “gods”) responsible for infecting humanity and the world with magic itself. Priests and prophets and mad geniuses and such. Often they don’t even know where their insights come from. Mystics. They get power/knowledge beamed into their heads, including the real history of the world, the ability to do magic, how to perform truly catastrophic rituals (rituals are conditional and always rely on some entity to answer it). Some are favoured so much so, that they simply request for something to happen, and it happens. The person responsible for artificial magic enabling normies to cast spells like natural mages was one such person. Point being. Magic has reached a point where it is more external than internal. It’s in the world. Always was. It was just not tapped until now.
>>98132695 (me)>>98132702 (me)Forgot to mention that mathematicians can also access magic purely through computational understanding which the foreign aliens/“gods” find amusing. They are frequently favored in subtle or not so subtle ways. A lot of polymaths were wizards without even realizing it.
>>98132710 (me)Some wizards kidnap math savants and those on the spectrum to do calculations for them, for darker and more abhorrent entities, which is a form of sacrifice. The moment the poor math savant does the calculation in their head, they’re obliterated. AI servicing wizards can do these calculations too, but, being AI, they are prone to overheating and malfunction and other strange or exotic happenstances. It’s not advised. Once an AI hooked up with a higher being that made everyone in the city weep tears of embryonic fluid that resulted in their brains and skulls erupting (and what came out, I will not say).
>>98132695 (me)>>98132702 (me)>>98132710 (me)>>98132726 (me)In fact. A lot of magic has now been taken for granted, and such things are only called magic through sheer trade marketing tactics, and “real deal magic” is often seen as the cutting edge sciences. Where true mystery lies. Mad men poking at the quantum nature of magic. Looking at mana particles beneath a microscope and then having your eyes bleeding out.
>>98132695Is this a game or story or are you just spitballing cool ideas and then holding onto them?
>>98132750Dark fantasy setting where magic is intentionally, painfully nebulous, even in industrial (occult infrastructure) form. The greatest magic trick of all is perhaps convincing others that something ISN’T magic. Or is. What is magic if not just a matter of subjective perception and the power of exposure? A joke by the powers that be.
>>98132447Kill yourself redditor
>>98132215There's many ways to do magic.Magic as Black Box. (Jack Vance, etc) Magic is not understood, even by it's practicioners - they just know that if they spend hours memorising an energy pattern chant or image, when they say a trigger word, a particular thing happens. Wizards don't understand how or why, it just does.Maigic as aid from another: (Morcock, Vance) The wizard/priest makes a bargain with an other worldy power or entity. When they cast a spell, it isnt them doing it, is the entity doing it for them.Magic is misunderstood science: Wizards, through intense study can manipulate the unseen world. What they do just appears to be magic by those who don't understand it. Using 'magic powder' (gunpowder) to make smoke flashs and explosions, using curses (diseases and poisons) to cause harm, using mind control (psychology and fear) to control others, using magical artifice (understanding of materials, alloys and crafting methods) to make 'magical' weapons, etc. Magic is faith: If someone's belief is strong enough, they can actually change reality and create miracles. A wizard gaining power is mostly them learing to believe they can do it, as well as convincing others they can do it. Saving throws is the wizards belief overcoming another's that the magic is possible. You could have 'dead zones' in which everyone knows magic isnt real, so it doesnt work there. Likewise, you could have worlds where everyone knows magic is real, so it does work. A rennaisance happens when the belief in magic mostly dies.Magic is harnessing a resource: (Niven's 'The Magic goes Away', Edding's 'Echos of the Great Song', D&D Dark Sun) Magic is a limited resource that drains away as it is used. Magic used to be everywhere, but as it was used to build flying cities and in battles, it drained away, creating ever increasing dead zones and less and less practicioners. Now there are few who know about it or trust it because it rarely works reliably.
>>98132801If you think holistically this all meets in the end.>Black boxIgnorance. The birthplace of religion. Mystery, wonder and enchantment. Drop a shiny chrome candy bar wrapper into the past and suddenly it’s magic. Exposure logic. The universe is both stage and magician. >Maigic as aid from anotherAliens. Even humans can be patrons to other humans. The secret devices of the government. Nature might be alive and respond. Animism. Consensual reality. Aliens might even cosplay as black boxes (“the gods”, demons, fairies, wizards, etc) themselves. Like Gandalf. >Magic is misunderstood scienceThe science of the past was misunderstood as a basis of it / us moving forward. This just goes back to black boxes. Layers of understanding/misunderstanding. Alien tech you don’t understand / consider to be magic is no different from looking to the stars and seeing them as the gods. Magic is a proxy. Something used to describe, not something used to define. (cont)
>>98132801>>98132859(cont)>Magic is faithConsensual reality. The idea that reality or nature is alive or considerate for your own sake is pretty artificial. Simulational. It goes in line with will working (Levi, Crowley, etc) and awakening your inner godness to unite with the godhead like in Hermetic magic/philosophy, which was a form of inner/spiritual alchemy. To see the bigger divine picture, or escape the Demiurge (Gnostics and Hermetics were always disagreeing over whether reality was a good thing or not). Was reality just a test? Maybe having faith in a higher being makes it blush. >Magic is harnessing a resourceCalling blue goo from the ground “magic” is like calling fossil fuels the “black blood of the earth”. Sort of like how the capital-w Wizard won’t necessarily see themselves as such. They know were it all comes from, or why something is seen as magic. Their bar for magic is a lot higher. Even innate reality/nature working won’t be seen as magical to the beings who do it casually, like Tolkien’s elves. The pointy hat is either placed on your head yourself, or it is placed on your head by another.Magic is relative. Perception. The mind’s eye. It might be called magic one day, then another word the next. But the essence is still the same. It’s all just nature viewed differently.
>>98132215>How do you picture them working in your setting? Energy that is psychoreactive + material components + will = magic in my setting. >For Wizards, they need to understand the ins-and-outs of their spells in their entiretyFor someone to be considered a mage they do indeed need to understand the ins and outs since a huge part of being a mage is magecraft. Spells are physical things in my setting. You have to make them. To make them takes understanding. Some can be taught to use spells made by another if that spell is well labeled and comes with detailed instructions on use. But it's a learning process that takes practice to use each spell, and such casters are totally reliant on someone else to make standardized spells for them or their organization. Which obviously leads to quite the power imbalance.Meanwhile a mage can easily use their own non-standard spells, craft spells they learned about from others, or craft unique spells. It's a art and mages are the producers of this art. Those who aren't can consume art, appreciate the art, put that art to use, but they can't really make that art. And unlike drawing or painting, if you fuck up making a spell it's more likely than not to literally blow up in your face or physically fall apart.
>>98132767>What is magic if not just a matter of subjective perception and the power of exposure?The wide range of concrete objective criteria the word has been used for historically such as the practices of Mesopotamian astrologer-priests, from which a wide range of concrete objective criteria are derived for playable game rules, wonderfag. Gnostic concepts of secret-knowledge are a common feature, where the practitioners explicitly recognize it by objective criteria despite the general population having a poor idea, which tracks with the general linguistic concept of "jargon" where a word's common vernacular meaning diverges from that of field experts who need more precision than the layperson.>>98132801Can you show a single game that uses anything like any of this, or are you just continuing your /x/-worthy drivel that none of us have ever figured out a plausible mechanical implementation of, wonderfag?>>98132859>If you think holistically this all meets in the end.Things are not always holistic, wonderfag. There are in fact divisions, hence why the words "magic" and "miracle" are separate, or "eldritch" and "occult". There are some shared aspects of some of their meanings, but the differences result in a very much irreducible semantic distinction that in the case of your horribly malformed constructions of "magic" results in outright syntax errors when trying to bludgeon flat.This is rather considerably more important on /tg/ where people need the category labels to be explicit and consistent to have RULES to PLAY A GAME.
>>98133395Lol it’s the miracle tardHi miracle tard
>>98133625Do you really need two threads to embarrass yourself in, wonderfag?>>98105591
>wonderfagWhat a great new term. I've been wondering for 15 years when that guy would finally fuck off.
I would just remove wizards. They are a magnet for autism. Look at the state of all the magic threads here.
>>98132767>Dark fantasy setting where magic is intentionally, painfully nebulous, even in industrial (occult infrastructure) form.Okay, so it's nothing.
>>98133802Nah it’s pretty spooky.
Wizards are weridos and loners who found the means to cast powers beyond their understanding. spend years or decades over rituals, and all the while wearing the best or crazy looking outfits as they slip into madness Because a wizard's attire is also a fashion statement, it is more important than spell safety
>>98134191Make something for real instead of pretending like your super cool original unique idea is worth talking about.
>>98134358>the while wearing the best or crazy looking outfits as they slip into madnessI feel like that is commentary on academia:>I spent years being mathematician. Most of it was making a formula to map the shape of a donut that twists in the middle.>I'm a researcher. For the last twenty years I've been doing the same experiment to prove or disprove something a scientist spouted off in five minutes.
>>98134358I absolutely love every flavor of wizard but I don't know why I'm so obsessed with my wizards being cute boys dressed in tight or form-fitting clothes I just wish I could be them
Bump
>>98132447>puckee aka redditor pucke℮21 spamming his commission againhttps://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/1g7anih/art_comm_astefelos_the_wise_wizard_by_tomasz_ryger/https://desuarchive.org/_/search/image/sLMr33o-2rp7DfwT-CoVaw/>24 times since October 2024
>>98139145Stop replying to them you faggot, fuckee is a tranny that has a vibrator hooked up to their dilator and every time you give them a (you) it delivers a shock, providing them with sexual gratification.
>>98137614Does this guy shed? And if so, can I peel him? That's gotta feel satisfying. Not gay btw.
>>98137614I like those kind of mages as well, but only if they are elves of some kind or old, elderly geezers who use glamour magic to hide their true age. Also, like wizards that wear colourful or flamboyant-looking or down right crazy looking clothing to show off their wealth and success, even though at times they might look like they got some snobish chain-smoking French fashion designer to make their robes for themAs I'm pretty sure most wizards who come from wealthy backgrounds or offer their services to lords and nobles would wear something that shows they aren't some hedge wizard who wears some dirty old robes that just been crawling along the forest floor to find mushrooms to brew a cure for the shits
