>>98138247
>TQ
Zombie: the Coil is one of the fansplats, and not a particularly good one in my opinion, but Agwee has a capstone where you spend too much not!vitae to vomit an impossible volume of gore at a target. It's even full of offal and bone. Whose offal and bone? Not yours! Not anyone you ate!

What would you say are the fun parts of playing the oWoD and/or nWoD Demon splats?

What does a player want to get out of a Demon game, that makes it a Demon game as opposed to some other splat?

>>98138431
The most obvious difference for DtD is you don't have to play a human on it, unlike all other WW splats. You can play a mechanical being like a cyborg and such

>>98138478
Every single fucking time I use a name to shitpost I forget to take it off

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>>98138247
>Whats your favorite sphere/discipline/gift/etc?
Prime, the idea of turning someone into pure energy is such a mage thing to do.

>>98138247
>TQ
Call me basic but probably Dominate. In both Vampire games. Mind control is fun and it's rare for it to be an easily accessible power. Not to mention it's very archetypally "vampire". Oh, and it makes the logistics of keeping the masquerade so much easier.

>>98138247
>tq
Spheres: Entropy or Mind
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Gift: dunno

>>98138247
>Whats your favorite sphere/discipline/gift/etc?
Sphere: Forces but Time fuckery gets honorable mention.
Discipline: Believe it or not, Fortitude. I like playing the tank
Gift: Nuwisha Gift, why are you hitting yourself. Look it up, it is pretty funny.
Art: Sovereign, because I can order inanimate objects and natural events like weather. It is Dominate but better. Wayfare gets a honorable mention because you can literally jump up to a plane.

So if I want to be Medusa and turn people into stone, how should I go?
How would you proceed as a vampire?

So is V6 coming? Can I get a quick rundown of rumors or whatnot? I don't want to watch any faggy youtubers.

>>98138753
>So is V6 coming?
That's likely.

>Can I get a quick rundown of rumors or whatnot?
We really don't know much yet. One anon said they would get rid of a clan (salubri, I think), but that was probably bullshit.
I do hope your expectations are very low.

>>98138753
gen con listed the white wolf hosted game as v6, now it's changed to playtest. And before that they had a sit down where they introduced the semi new team and said that they are reading legacy content, decided to ditch the v5 layout and photography style in favor or more classical vtm(they only mentioned vampire during that event) looking pages and art
the transcript of the steat down
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J2faRdc-EAWmQdyz4E7DAS9yWXNR7-9TL48-LIdYAfI/edit?tab=t.0
gencon website
>https://www.gencon.com/events/317875
screenshot of it previously saying 6th ed
>>98128876

in terms of rumors on discord someone on the team allegedly said that hunger and rage dice get cut because the new team doesn't likes the former and considers the later to just "not work" to the point where those dice killed their efforts of trying to do the 5th edition version of the other splats

>>98138126
Wtf, I had that same idea on my mind

I still don't understand why doing a 6th edition besides corporate greed.

>>98139034
none of the people who did v5 are still at the company + they are hoping that they can get at least some old fans back

>>98139014
>ditch the v5 layout and photography style
Well, at least they got that right.

>>98139014
At least it sounds like their heads are somewhat in the right direction.

>>98139014
>decided to ditch the v5 layout and photography style in favor or more classical vtm
That's actually amazing, ngl.

do we have any book that talks about what a infernalist of every clan would look like?

>>98138791
>I do hope your expectations are very low.
What's there to be excited about? The flagship game turned out mid, the previous edition didn't do anything all that interesting outside of the hunger dice and there wasn't any lore worth talking about here.

>>98139144
Just take whatever the Baali think of the other clans and you should have a baseline.

>>98138753
the general has been in a frenzy over the possibility of a new edition, which is still largely speculative and at best, in its earliest roughest draft by the admission of the official announcement which is incredibly vague. I'll remind everyone that before this they swore up that Mage5 was coming but then stopped mentioning it.

I don't know why the same general that despises V5 and will not shut up about how much they hate paradox is so easily lapping up such a blatant attempt at pandering. IP holders say this kind of stuff all the time, that they're going back to the roots, that they respect the rich history... it's almost never the truth. I say this for your guys' benefit, don't get your hopes up.

>>98139144
I don't actually think VTM ever did a true Infernalist book. Closest you get is the VTDA Road of Sin roadbook, but not all of those guys are outright infernalists. If I had to give a generalized statement based entirely on my perception of the clans...

>Brujah
Like their forebearers, ended up getting played for a fool by demons in their latest vampire utopia windmill tilt. Will vehemently deny they're an infernalist while sacrificing babies.

>Gangrel
Pure, unga bunga power hunger. Possibly traded a lot to overcome a vampiric weakness. Goat animal features.

>Malkavian
Either totally incoherent or completely lucid. Either way what they stand to gain from it is entirely unclear.

>Nosferatu
Does it all out of bitter spite. Wants to drag everyone down to their level and gladly made a deal with the devil to do it.

>Toreador
Poseur sold their soul for artistic talent, a tale as old as time. Now does fucked up satanic orgies behind closed doors to appease their patron.

>Tremere
Wanted more magic, thought he was smart enough to get out of it, wasn't.

>Ventrue
Finally found something he couldn't get in the first place, decided to negotiate with a demon to get it. Actually might be a deft enough negotiator to pull off the "mercenary infernalist" routine.

>Lasombra
Didn't see any of the demons terms as negative, was gonna do all that horrible shit anyway. That or one of the nega-christians that took it to its illogical conclusion.

>Tzimisce
Normal practitioner of koldunic sorcery.

not gonna do the independents because I don't care enough about those glorified bloodlines.

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>>98138496

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>>98139144
the dark age companion (the 1997 one not the v20 one) on pages 166 to 169 talks about all the clans stereotypes (giovanni and salubri are bloodlines at this point in time) when it comes to both how the clan views infernalism and how a infernalist might look like

i don't know if there is a modern night version

>>98139231
nothing ever ends

>>98139240
>brujah's weakness when dealing with the devil is the desire they hold for knowledge
Things really change.

>>98139240
the cappadocian one by the way doesn't really work especially back then because they didn't have necromancy in that edition (mortis at this point was mostly plague and and very limited body manipulation stuff) and their clan books says that the clan also don't know much about and are heavily distrustful of Thaumaturgy so they don't have any powers that would allow them to "dance" with a demon in a way where as a error could be fatal for the demon or have any powers that would allow them to bottle demons

i guess they wanted to make them sound impressive when it comes to infernalism because that is the edition where the writers assumed that the cappadocians are the parent clan of the baali but just like with the assamite demon hunters they didn't give them the rules to back that up

>>98139166
> I don't know why the same general that despises V5 and will not shut up about how much they hate paradox is so easily lapping up such a blatant attempt at pandering

Desperately clinging to hope that this time it might be different. WoD5 has left such a bitter taste on people’s mouths that the mere possibility that White Wolf 2 is ditching it as well looks like a light at the end of the tunnel
>why bother, the old stuff will always be there
Yeah, but seeing your favorite IP getting wave after wave of sludge can legit turn off people and make them abandon it entirely, even the old material. Look at what happened to Star Wars. Nobody cares about it anymore after almost 2 decades of the crap that Disney dumped on the franchise
Maybe the hopes are misplaced, but I don’t fault any WoD fans for wanting to believe there’s still a spark of life in the setting

>>>98137730
So, for most Sorcerers this is either a Mana Manipulation 3 ritual or a Mana Manipulation 5 spell. The ritual might involve some maintaining, but the spell most likely wouldn't. Of course, neither would prevent it becoming corrupted again later, but that's for the future to worry about.

>>98139284
>>98139240
this actually reads like the best explaination for the whole scholar stuff

infernalist brujah stop being scholars at all. large portion of the clan fell to infernalism in carthage and passed that (or rather didn't passed down the scholar type education) down to their childres and such

>>98139302
>why bother, the old stuff will always be there

I didn't say that. I agree that good new material would be nice. I'm a star wars fan so I get you I am however extremely fucking skeptical. This "white wolf 2" is what, the fourth leadership swap they've done under Paradox's custodianship? I'm not inclined to believe that the fourth time will be the charm, especially when the only evidence is a boiler plate statement that ChatGPT could've concocted.

Not to mention, even in the very unlikely chance it's decent, that doesn't mean anything other than VtM will receive any love. Hell, if you like CofD (I like parts of both), you can basically kiss the faintest hope of your stuff getting new love goodbye. This last part is perhaps a little petty, but I wouldn't want to reward the same IP holder that ruined everything in the first place.

The real way to unfuck an IP like this is not to try endless reboots until something turns a slight profit, it's to democratize it. Take the STV approach to official tabletop books and video games. If a legit developer wants to make a fuckin' Wraith video game, let them. Some of the official writers for CofD still make STV books for the IP, why not just let them publish them as official products with an extra art and editing pass for professionalism's sake? You'll still collect your cut, what's the point of having an extensive setting/s if you're only going to focus on a tiny section of it you strictly tone and lore police?

>>98139450
(yes I remembered there was that wraith VR game right after posting it, bad example, I just wanted to give an oWoD one so it didn't sound like I was JUST whinging about CofD's cancelation. Demon: the Fallen would be a better one.)

>>98139368
>this actually reads like the best explaination for the whole scholar stuff

the scholar brujah thing was always a cope to be honest. such a cope they invented a different clan to explain it, then retconned their backstory because it made the brujah look even worse.

>>98139240
Lasombra
>destroy anyone who serves a demon
>threaten to fight any demon that doesn't kiss their ass
>won't even look at a lesser demon
>demand contracts up front

Ventrue
>supports their infernalists in hopes they benefit the clan
>can't even recognize a demon when they see one
>take desperate deals after a demon screws them
Ventrue, are you even trying?

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>>98139229
>Now does fucked up satanic orgies behind closed doors to appease their patron.
How is this different than their regular orgies?
>>98139368
>>98139284
I like to think there was a modicum of cooperation in Carthage between Trujah with a superiority complex who didn't correct their Troilespawn brethren and the Brujah who didn't understand/care about the difference. They both fell to the Big Baali Cock and the Learned part of the warrior scholar clan was no more, and that's why they're all chimpanzees in the modern nights.

>>98139545
>I like to think there was a modicum of cooperation in Carthage between Trujah with a superiority complex who didn't correct their Troilespawn brethren and the Brujah who didn't understand/care about the difference.
that's kinda canon: trujah been involved with carthage at first and the reason the trujah are friend with the setites is that they smuggled the trujah out of the city when the baali showed up and things got worse

>>98139536
and yet the text says that the ventrue are MORE prideful

>>98139231
His spheres?

>>98139545
>How is this different than their regular orgies?

Most Toreador stop at normiecore degeneracy, especially if the bondage focus their 2e corebook has is any indication.

An infernalist Toreador gets up to shit that'd make /d/ shudder.

>>98139717
>watchman
marauder with mastery in prime and correspondence, good amount of dots in forces, some dots in etropy and no dots in mind, time and spirit
>the darkest night nonsense
Prime oracle with high dots in everything or some bullshit like that

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>>98139575
>the reason the trujah are friend with the setites is that they smuggled the trujah out of the city when the baali showed up
And yet all single digit remaining Trujah in the TMR won't let them into the Ante worshipping club because the Nagaraja are too cowardly and butthurt to admit they stole Setite blood.

Glad they all got nuked and usurped by Lost Boys LARPers. For the glory of Sutekh.
>>98139240
>defectors get to have the entire clan go full SNEK VULT on them.
Hell yeah. Nobody gets to tempt kindred into dread powers but them. I know some anons dislike the clan's concept but I love these silly fucks.

Why yes, Lair of the White Worm is my favourite movie.

>>98139922
>And yet all single digit remaining Trujah in the TMR won't let them into the Ante worshipping club because the Nagaraja are too cowardly and butthurt to admit they stole Setite blood.
this goes into "nearly everyone in the true black hand are traitors" bit because those same trujah openly rejoin the setites again the moment the true black hand is destroyed

and this is not some "we go for the next best thing" bit because the setite clan book already talked about them being best friends with the trujah because for some reason setites love picking up the survivors of clan purges to the point where they get super generous deals and sometimes even free help and shelter for millenia... unless they are named salubri in which case they can go get fucked as far as the serpents care

How does Demon: The Fallen reconcile with the fact that people were clearly making pacts with Demons well before they all broke out of the Abyss in the 90s? Was it all just pacts with Earthbounds & Banes in the guise of Demons exclusively or what?

>>98139922
>I know some anons dislike the clan's concept but I love these silly fucks.

I like them just because they're excellent villain fodder. Evil snake cult vampires just work.

>>98139166
> they swore up that Mage5 was coming
funny that you should mention that
rumor has it that V6 is happening because they couldn't get mage to work with V5's framework

>lapping up such a blatant attempt at pandering
mate, i'm just bored as shit here

>>98140301
dtf actually has the earthbounds be asleep for like 700 years between the dark age books and the week of nightmares and fallen only around between 1999 and 2004 (because the world ends there) so most infernalists only dealt with umbrood, spectres, yama kings, banes etc which are related (anti demon stuff works on everyone mentioned) but seperate from "true demons"

which is kinda funny because unless you have one giving out magical artefacts like candy dtf demons suck as patrons in terms what they offer compared to some other demons

>>98140373
>they couldn't get mage to work with V5's framework
best splat saved by the incompetence

>>98139166
>I'll remind everyone that before this they swore up that Mage5 was coming but then stopped mentioning it.
this is the problem with just saying "they" they is jason carl who is gone

white wolf as far as we know is currently just 6 people of which only outstar is really a known name and all she does is now art direction. everyone else got the boot or left

why do you think they are doing open playtesting at a con? they probably don't have enough employees to playtest right now

>>98140373
do you think all the memes about paradox dice caused a paradox effect which made paradox cancel mage 5?

>>98139922
i know we shouldn't judge books by their cover but this looks fun. is it any good?

>>98140383
Was unaware that anti-Demon stuff worked on Spectres too. That’s certainly another odd point in DtF as well is that if this is the case then the Fallen are actually kind of pitifully weak compared to Banes & the others then, given the crazy stuff Infernalists were up to before the Fallen were around. YHWH not making his best.

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>>98140407
You could say that Paradox killed Mage

>>98140407
clearly they should revisit mtsc to avoid "paradox" entirely

>>98140436
>if this is the case then the Fallen are actually kind of pitifully weak compared to Banes & the others then
now to be fair fallen are the lowest class of elohim they are the counterpart to like gafflings. Higher ranking elohim can only stay in human bodies for a limit time before they burn out so most tend to be earthbounds and earthbound at the high end are on the level of "too high to stat" with the highers you can build still being on raise any city from anywhere on the planet

lorewise kupala was confused with a talon of the wyrm (if you accept the devil's due retcon) and can fight the eldest for 3 days and nights and kupala is not on the level of a archduke

the thing about them sucking as patrons is more about the fact that the thrall system in dtf is very barebones and while they tried to fix that in devil's due (which is pretty much the dark age demon book) where thralls can be nearly splat level and can be of any splat (also not possible in dtf) they also say in devil's due that the stuff in this book doesn't work in modern times yet because the global faith level is still too low

>>98140492
If the Fallen are meant to be explicitly Gaffling tier then things make more sense, I was under the assumption they were all supposed to be important in Lucifer’s Rebellion. I was considering just potentially trying a Fomori game instead as DtF seemed very iffy on top of being unfinished. I’ll be sure to check out Devil’s Due if it helps to expand on the rules.

>>98140373
>mate, i'm just bored as shit here

Do you have no games to discuss?

>>98140301
>How does Demon: The Fallen reconcile
poorly.

>>98140583
yes the playable fallen are explcitly all "commoners" who been too weak to hold a title and had a very small specific jobs before the rebellion and on top of that they are also weakened compared to their rebellion self. not only do they not remember all their lore dots some of the lores themselves are mentioned as not being at full power yet (probably foreshadowing elder lore powers that never got printed), they need a human vessel and can't stay in their true form forever. And their rebellion self was already weakend compared to their angelic self which had almost everything their rebelion self had in addition to unlimited faith coming directly from haven

like to show how specific and small the jobs of commoners must have been: Beelzebub who was in charge of small animals that live in cadarvers was already a hellknight so it would need a very high faith vessel and specific ritual to be summoned and said vessel would still only last for a few months at most. the dtf storyteller guide i think it was has the rules for higher ranking demons and what is need to summon them but some of the rules that describe the higher ranking demons themselves are then later superseded by more in depth rules in the earthbound book

>>98138431
>>98138478
That's kind of true in DtF as well. You play the Demon, not the host they inhabit, even if a lot of that person rubbed off on your char (or they likely wouldn't be a PC worthy demon).
DtF and DtD share a lot of its thematic core in common, both types of demons essentially learn from humanity to either stave off their torment or to stave off the God-Machine. Both (generally) fell due to humanity as well. That's part of the appeal of both games to me (even if I prefer DtF's flavor), that you play as this ancient, extremely powerful being, who nonetheless has to grapple with unfamiliar emotions and perspectives brought on by the lived experiences of their human guise.

>>98139922
>Why yes, Lair of the White Worm is my favourite movie.
When the snake vampire comes out wearing the totem as a murder strap-on, I knew it was a 10/10.

>>98140624
no WoD ones

>>98140301
Not all Demons people make deal with are DTF ones.
There are Demon Lords, that can even give you what is essentially Demonic Sphere magic, there are Yama Kings, there are Abyssal entities, there are Dreaming entities etc.

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>>98139922
This post receives +1 snoot boop. Praise Sutehk!

>>98140774
currently or in general? I'll admit I barely post about my own games here anymore since they tend to be a lot of effort for little to no response, but I'll try to be a positive change in that direction. When I had no WoD games currently chambered I'd sometimes bring up stuff from my old ones.

I do wonder what the root cause of the steady trend away from gameposting is. Now it's pretty rare, and doesn't usually get much in the way of responses unless someone's asking for advice. I've got a few theories but they're impossible to test.

i watched spider noir and now i kinda want to run a noir game with monsters and monstrous dectives

do we have any books that talk about the timeframe or should i use coc books as inspiration?

hsien book get
surely it'll be super easy to understand

>>98140867
I think Requiem of all things had a noir-inspired alt/subsetting I think, it's in like... Danse Macabre? Maybe? It's been a while.

You could also check out some of the VtM city books on big American cities, they might go back enough in local history to have some noir bits to steal, though I was never really impressed with By Night books.

Aside from that... you could check Dark Eras and see if any of them had a setting in the 20s-40s.

>>98138725
For turning people to stone, my first thought is actually to look for transmutations, probably Stannum or Centimani. Promethean fits with a creature that lived in seclusion until hunted down, too. Or you could try Geist and ask your ST to rule that anyone killed with Grave-Dirt Rage is petrified.

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>>98140858
currently, scheduling issues and general autism makes it difficult to find games that aren't wod5 or PBPs

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>>98139994
>unless they are named salubri in which case they can go get fucked as far as the serpents care
I can understand that when you know how self-righteous the Salubri get about muh morality, so I bet they're ok with letting the Tzimisce take them, not to mention the Tremere are some of the serpents' best customers.
>>98140310
They do. I feel like "ante worshipper egyptian merchants but evil" works better than "ante worshipper arabian assassins but evil" simply because the assamites are all over the place trying to pretend they are scholars while the clan is a mess of in-fighting, factions divided in all sects with contrary philosophies, like 5 different weaknesses, 3 Quietus and Sorcery for unique disciplines. Setites just own the label and mostly vary on which flavour of Snek you want. I feel like if they simplified and pivoted to "judge dredd wannabes want you to die because Haquim said so" it would all work much better.
>>98140416
I wouldn't know, I don't actually own it, just found the picture online and thought it would be appropriate for Setites. Apparently the author plagiarized other occultists, made up historical references, and did a wrongthink once so now leftie witch wannabes say he should be dismissed.
>>98140672
If your Lector Priest doesn't have one of those in the blasphemy shrine, are you REALLY practicing Akhu?
>>98140838
:3
I love that art.

>>98141263
>I can understand that when you know how self-righteous the Salubri get about muh morality, so I bet they're ok with letting the Tzimisce take them, not to mention the Tremere are some of the serpents' best customers.
yeah reading the salubri warrior write up is one of the most funny things in wod to me because these guys have never heard that beggars can't be choosers. because they want help, but they want that help to be christian so they reject the help of the tzimisce and assamites and for their helpers to accept their mandate meaning to follow their leadership and convert to their niche path of enlightenment that also says that salubri are the best and they won't accept help from people who reject that

Wasn't Paradox saying not long ago that they want to turn WoD into a big franchise with comics and TV shows and stuff? What happened to that?

>>98141426
Meet Potential Multimedia Franchise!

>>98141426
that said also said by jason carl only weeks before he left the company

it seems like this guy got overhyped himself when the new white wolf was announced and then overhyped what it could do

>>98141426
it is a multimedia franchise, just none of it took off.

>>98141426
>What happened to that?
Bloodlines 2 wasn't a big enough deal to get the snowball rollin. Combine that with corporate incompetence leads to the people who wanted to do that shit got fired or something along those lines.

>>98141475
It was kinda weird that Jason Carl was so important for a while. He was saying stuff like how he started writing the outline for Mage 5 with Achilli, even though according to the wiki, he never worked on a real game before, only larp stuff, so why would he be writing such a flagship game as his first.

>>98141699
he was kinda the only name people knew online that was left at the time the new white wolf was formed so i assume that he assumed that it would all fall into his lap but then it didn't when someone who wrote rpgs books before showed up and he quit

>>98141699
I would not be surprised if they just put his name on things because he's well known from LA by Night and such.
Then just have the beloved name make a bunch of announcements to drum up hype.
Slide 3: the beloved name leaves the company.

>>98140951
I’m grateful that you responded, but do you know of any way in WoD? Though I guess that if CoD is the same system as WoD then everything’s fine.

And is it possible for vampires to achieve that?

Being a Wraith doesn’t seem so hard. I already have a voice inside my head always telling me to kill myself, but now I get cool ghost powers too? Win-win.

>>98138725
>Easy mode
Dominate 2

>Dante Must Die Mode
Chimerstry 5

>Baby Bitch Mode
There’s probably some Thaumaturic Path that does that.

>The Backrooms now exists somewhere in the Dreaming thanks to zoomies
There’s something to be said about humanity’s inherent fear of Banality.

>>98138247
Why did Paradox write the Second Inquisition into existence? Seems like the most catastrophic bit of lore ever added to WoD, and completely unnecessary as well, since there were already lots of government-affiliated Hunter groups focused on vampires. Does anybody know what they were thinking, genuinely?

>>98142806
>I'm sick of these hecking wierdos not respecting my metaplot so I'm bringing back the inquisition

>>98142806
They put in charge of the IP a guy who thinks any happy ending is anathema to the spirit of WoD (especially VtM)

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>>98142806
>Why did Paradox write the Second Inquisition into existence?
They wanted to have a unified version of "rocks fall, everyone dies" with a government coat of paint.
Some of the roots beneath V5, allegedly, tie to Nordic LARPs where that kind of ending is the standard for VtM games or something like that. You are supposed to actually have shitty odds as a way to pay for your character's bad karma.
Read Winter's Teeth, and understand that is the standard game they expect with V5.

>>98142806
I guess they wanted to make hunters a bigger threat? I don't see a reason as to why you'd come up with the SI. Even if the idea itself isn't all that bad the execution sure is. Instead of doing something, anything, with the already existing groups, they decided to embrace generic spook bad guys. You combine that with all the retcons to the OG factions and you've got a perfect example of wasted potential. We could have had all major hunters working together, even if very loosely, to pose a serious threat while still having weaknesses (funding, staying hidden, operational procedures, ideological differences, prefered targets, afforded trust, etc.) but no, we got generic gocernment goons that can bomb a major city and somehow get away with it because 'muh terrorists' or something. Retards behind 5th edition have mastered the art of turning gold into lead.

>>98142880
What I don't get is why they wouldn't use Project Twilight for that, or at least acknowledge the TU or Pentex as the sponsor of this crusade. In fact I don't think it would ever be the case that the TU would tolerate the existence of an NSA-led unenlightened mortal conspiracy integrating RDs into Consensus, that's absolutely something they'd be dispatching agents to resolve with a bit of brainwashing.

Even if Paradox wants people to think that the TU is losing its grip, a single Arete 3 Mage could absolutely dismantle the SAD or FIRSTLIGHT with mild effort, and there are at least many such people who still exist. It's a ridiculous self-sabotage that basically makes M5 impossible, probably for the best though desu.

>>98142880
Holy shit, literal Call of Duty bad guys.
>Obligatory melee enemy
That's so fucking retarded. At least give them flamethrowers if you need a close range damage dealer.

>>98142930
>Even if Paradox wants people to think that the TU is losing its grip, a single Arete 3 Mage could absolutely dismantle the SAD or FIRSTLIGHT with mild effort
nah they would just give them sleeper anti magic tech just like how they given them blood markers that work on blooddolls and make it so that vamps can't drink their blood anymore, anti discipline sonic devices, sunlight generators that work on kindred or just flat out bio weapons that wipe out kindred in a city

all of which beside the last one are mundane non magical tech that completely break how the setting worked before. The SI was the writers pet to beat all writers pets with more plot armor than the tremere could ever dream of otherwise the ventrue as described in previous editions would have gotten rid of them in a week

>>98142357
>Homebrew it
Combination discipline of Dominate 2/Serpentis 2 and Visceratika

>Not in the rules, but also not “not in the rules”, ask your ST about it
Take the Cursed flaw, perhaps in combination with the Innate Magic Ability merit if you intend to voluntarily stone people

>>98143056
The problem with weakening the Technocracy is that the Technocracy is what allows modern WoD to exist without unicorns, dragons, supermen, aliens, and all kinds of shit that daily invades from other planes, not to mention the other splat conspiracies and Mage conspiracies which want to control reality. Anti-magic tech does exist in the form of Primum but the obvious solution to it for Mages is to target the stuff that isn't made of Primum, to work from the operatives or institutions that are using the Primum, or else to just cleverly avoid dealing with it in a direct confrontation. These would apply equally to 'sleeper' antimagic because most Mages are going to open up their operation on a sleeper with Correspondence anyway, and won't risk revealing themselves to feds with guns unless they are fully in control to begin with. Also, the TU operates at the level of brainwashing the government and major corporations into their bidding, they make the laws and thus would simply deprive unruly NSA glowies of authority to pursue this crusade in a mundane way.

But again, the real problem is, even if all Mages were dead (which is pretty much the only way to make it so the TU wouldn't abolish the SI), that just introduces the issue of all the shit they kept at bay now being unleashed on the public.

>>98142806
It's just Quantum Werewolves 2, but even more omnipresent because it's for general technology use rather than going out into the sticks. Don't think of it as a faction within a living universe, but of a blunt instrument to punish badwrongfun.

>>98143078
m20 technocraty reloaded already has the technocrats lose control over the american goverment and the people are as "fine" as they are irl combine this with wod5's weird insistence that nothing the supernatural does really matters at all and you could have easily gotten a mage edition where the normal goverment hunts mages and where they would just completely ignore any lore to the contrary just like they did with werewolves and all the shit the garou nation held back or sealed in america alone (the end of the garou nation should unleash Storm Eater for example) and vampires and all the plants they had in the goverment and media

Mage 5 was originally planned by achill's team after all so the same team that wrote the SI book and broke up the entire garou nation which means given their record even disbanding the entire union and council of 9 would have been on the table

lucky for us this will not happen even if the play test at gencon won't be a new edition because everyone who cares for the SI plot is gone now and even the renegate team tried to write around it

>>98143120
Having the TU lose control in M20 is a consequence of Nephandic influence increasing, not Mages overall being weaker, so if the TU is gone due to Nephandic ascension that should have even more dramatic consequences as far as supernatural shit appearing left and right. But anyway, I don't buy that the TU would ever actually lose a meaningful grip on the power they had without a gigantic confrontation with the mystics, and that implies the mystics now control power, not that sleepers do. Sleepers never ever had power in WoD, not from the creation of the Tellurian, and it's utterly ridiculous to think that in the height of their power, modernity (a giant Mage ritual, effectively), that they'd be second-fiddle to some Project Twilight dropouts (not even the PT sorcerers!). Embarrassingly bad lore, but hopefully it dies with this cursed edition.

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>>98142880
They could have at least made the falling rocks kinda cool. If the players go full retard AND you need a non-kindred to punish them, send an ‘Enhanced Human’ a la Anderson.
Then if you really want to get the point across, send two.

>>98142930
If you're launching a brand new edition with vampire, the last thing you want to do is include mandatory cross-splat plotline with a splat that doesn't have a version in this edition and may not at all depending on how things pan out.

The SI was still a bad idea and a bad execution at that, but it'd be just as dumb to make a major plotline in your new Vampire release revolve around the antagonist of Mage.

>>98143144
They never needed to raise the issue of cross-splat, the SI is the thing that did that. They had existing Hunter groups that were already integrated into the lore and justified as subordinate to the TU or some other splat (and thus protected), and the SI is literally a descendant org to Project Twilight but for some reason only the mundane Sleeper part. This is the retarded worldbuilding that fucks the possibility of ever doing M5 as a setting, because it essentially retcons the existence of the TU and of the Sorcerous capacity of Project Twilight, replacing it not with some other supernatural splat or conspiracy, but just some GWOT Sleepers. Fucking bizarre move, to effectively cripple your setting on day 1 for a weaker, dumber antagonist than the ones they already had.

>>98143037
>Obligatory melee enemy
>That's so fucking retarded. At least give them flamethrowers if you need a close range damage dealer.
Or a shield and a fuckton or armor. Something that suggests a lot of thought went into how a regular human dude would find himself throwing down with a bloodsucker in melee and surviving.

>>98143160
Yeah it's retarded for a multitude of reasons. But in either case I don't want cross-splat in any core book save those basic statlines built in-splat for other supernaturals, but I don't really consider that cross-splat in the first place , let alone one that's launching a new edition.

don't forget that the masquarade in v5 is also said to be doomed but is also canonically so robust that you can release hundreds of vtr Larvae (because let's be honest that's what the sabbat unbirthed are) in a major city during christmas season and the most incompetent camarilla court ever seen can just say that it was a gas leak and it works! or you can kill a hundred fbi agents and trained soldiers in a night club hours after they went rogue and bombed a place on american soil with a drone without permision and claim that it was a drug bust gone wrong and nobody questions anything (nightroad camarilla ending)

flat out invader zim humanity level of willful ignorance

>>98143037
they already have shotguns! i assume the hot stick guy must have pissed of the boss somehow and yes you can get their friends to shot the poor asshole with the hot sticks by moving so that they will move into sniper fire

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>>98143132
You don't even need a special strike team or an imbued. With shit like True Faith 8/10 or 4/5 in DAV20 being able to shut down disciplines and be straight up unaffected by them, you start to understand why characters like good ol' Sullivan Dane here almost get put on the Red List. They are walking TPKs against any regular coterie. The way you beat them is through social manipulation like calling the cops on him.

>>98140858
>I do wonder what the root cause of the steady trend away from gameposting is.

The population of 4chan at large and these generals specifically. Hedgefag used to post all about his games, his homebrew, and engaged with other posters who asked about these or anything Changeling related, or even just engaged with him generally. I recall he once even posted a recipe for chicken noodle soup as part of a back and forth with some other anons that began with game talk but went onto other subjects through the organic development of the conversation. But then anons in this thread (not all, but a concerted amount) bullied him out of these generals.

>>98141263
I think the reason Setites work and Assamites don't is that one owns the villainous conceit, and the other seems to be deeply ashamed of it and has overcompensated to hell and back, birthing a lore abomination full of retcons and authorial glazing.

With the Setites, they fleshed them out with more flavors of evil snek. They understood the limitations of their concept, and accepted it. Whereas for some reason with the Assamites they decided to focus on their ethnic gimmick rather than their assassin/diablerist gimmick, to not only the Assamite's loss, but to the setting as a whole. Since it left many writers feeling like they couldn't do anything in the middle east without the Assamites not only appearing, but being a major player. Which is just boring. And worse, trying to fit a narrow concept clan into that broad of a role necessitated the existence of the Three Clans in an Overcoat shit. Especially when the Middle East should be important to vampire, especially as its focus on Noddism and Gehenna increased, painting it with a broad and honestly ill-fitting brush was greatly to the setting's detriment.

Honestly, there's great potential in the idea of a lineage of vampires that hate other vampires and seek their destruction, but are smart enough to pick their battles is an interesting one. But, like the Setites, it's an idea that doesn't fit in every game, and it leans antagonistic to the point that playing as one requires the right game and right table. Why they understood that for the sneks but not the ass mites confuses me.

>>98139240
>Tremere the worst
>followed by Ventrue
>followed by Brujah
The first two aren't surprising and I guess the Brujah being fuckups makes sense.

>>98143192
>You don't even need a special strike team or an imbued.

Some of us think those are nice to have, though.

>The way you beat them is through social manipulation like calling the cops on him.

As a Kindred could you just shoot them yourselves?

Reading on requiem. With stuff being all fragmented and no grand conspiracy to enforce the traditions, could there be places where the masquerade is more a suggestion or diablerie is a common thing?

>>98143323
Absolutely. Also, while they tragically get neglected a lot, Belial's Brood is a thing.

>>98143354
Nice. That gives me some ideas
>Belial's Brood
I haven't checked them out yet, but I will

>>98139994
>unless they are named salubri in which case they can go get fucked as far as the serpents care
Even the serpents don't wanna get dragged into Saulot's flavour of batshit insanity.

>>98142880
Were real life commandos not scary enough? Flashbangs and shotguns are good enough… We need Hunk Jr. and his transmog dual blades instead of a guy in a balaclava with a bowie knife?
*spits on the artist*

What do people like the most about Mage the Ascension over Mage the Awakening and vice versa?

>>98143243
I think reluctant self loathing vampires would absolutely be doable. Hell, that's the general conceit of newbies in a lot of games. 100% agree with you that they focused on the wrong direction, it could've been great.

>>98143532
I don't really like anything about Awakening /more/ than Ascension, but I think it's an acceptable iteration of Mage in the sea of mediocrity that is CofD. Ascension is just awesome on every level, but it is challenging to run and most GMs can't handle it. Lots of players can't either, they don't have the frame of mind to make a holistic character with a full Paradigm, Practice, and Instruments, so they just do gonzo shit, but hey, it's just a more fun version of vampions, then. Anyhow, my favorite thing about MtAs is that it makes humanity the main character of WoD, instead of a constant victim, and thereby makes history a consequence of the best and most capable humans rather than some impersonal force.

I suppose if I had to air a grievance about MtAs, it's probably that Arete is pretty much static in most games due to Seekings being so convoluted and singular, but I don't know that MtAw handles that any better.

>>98143243
>Honestly, there's great potential in the idea of a lineage of vampires that hate other vampires and seek their destruction, but are smart enough to pick their battles is an interesting one. But, like the Setites,
It's interesting that when you think about it for a bit, it basically seems as if Haqim chose straightforward conquest as his path of dominance over other Antes.

Reclaim blood of the unworthy and seek to lower your Generation when possible > those who won't follow Haqim and can't be used to further the goals of Haqim's followers in some other way are unworthy

This basically sounds like Haqim basically tried to get rid of the intrigue and the pretenses and just turn his clan into an organized army for his RTS

>>98143608
>and seek to lower your Generation when possible
That reminds me, I'm assuming there's massive trust issues in the Aasimites considering they don't all just lower their generation through that ritual to have a bunch of 4th gens running around.

>>98143621
that’s because the ritual can easily kill a vampire and takes a lot of time. I swear none of you people have read these books in the last five years and regurgitate shit you read in these threads

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>>98143243
>they decided to focus on their ethnic gimmick rather than their assassin/diablerist gimmick.
Exactly, what's up with that. They're not exactly writing a thesis on the exhaltation of Arabian culture and the failings of Orientalism as perceived by westerners, they're writing a Gonzo vampire game of katanas and trenchcoats. I want cannibal assassin vampires.
>Especially when the Middle East should be important to vampire, especially as its focus on Noddism and Gehenna increased
Amen to that, you'd think that would be jet fuel for an Indiana Jones Last Crusade/The Mummy type of game about uncovering ancient secrets of the first city and them being defended by secret orders of Assamites but... Nope, not as far as I know. Then again I didn't read that much into Cairo by Night.

>>98143078
The answer to this is that contemporary society is a monster of the Technocracy's making that has grown beyond its control. It's so vast and labyrinthine that it can no longer be directly controlled and any effort to do so is often more harmful than helpful. At this point, it reinforces its own consensus in a sort of feedback loop that is now beyond the Union's control. Of course the Technocracy still exists and still works to protect humanity from what lurks in the shadows and still tries to guide humanity in the right direction, but it no longer has absolute authority over mankind and its efforts to try and manipulate the world into doing its bidding is like a man trying to keep a river from flooding with a single bucket.

So the Union no longer controls governments, or corporations, or the markets, or the zeitgeist. They might try to influence them but it's becoming increasingly difficult, especially when the masses identify the technocratic and Technocratic status quo as something to rebel against and replace with populist rhetoric.

An updated Technocratic Union should be on the verge of dismantling the New World Order and the Syndicate both, for their recent inability to sway the world order and the markets respectively. Iteration X and the Progenitors should also be looking a little sketchy, as anything that they introduce to the consensus has a strong chance of backfiring and being utterly mismanaged by the rampant masses. Basically the only convention that's able to perform their duty without humanity sabotaging all of their efforts are the Void Engineers at this point, since mankind on large has locked in on the world being a banal, grey place devoid of magic, without any further need of convincing. All the VEs need to do is ensure that nothing from the other side of the Gauntlet disturbs that illusion.

>>98139014
>>98139051
>>98139079
>Outstar: [...] A principle we have is human-made art. (Applause). [...] with respect to Legacy. We approach this [...] through all the art of before Vampire, from the Base edition, but also Dark Ages and Victoria. And so many other things we are seeing. And I've seen people connecting to the art that was made 25 years ago. Some of it is still appealing. In media, in recollections what you love about vampire. [...] What you connect with the most and what is really pecking your imagination. What can you connect to when making your own character. And that is why we are very much focusing on illustration going forward. Instead of photography, which I very much like
>Jess: [...] and we can also really understand the world and characters, and narrative through that artwork. Illustration just provides really a lot of that space for people, why photography can sometimes be taken more literally. V5's approach with photography was extremely innovative at the time and very cool. But we want to really focus on; the things we are going to do with Vampire moving forward, giving everyone the space to really inhabit that power fantasy.
I get the feeling they really didn't want to give up V5 photobashing but they can't deny the buzz caused by the JP V5 cover.

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>>98143781
>Instead of photography, which I very much like
>V5's approach with photography was extremely innovative at the time and very cool.
>t.

>>98143781
>V5's approach with photography was extremely innovative at the time and very cool.
No, it wasn't cool at all. Innovative? Maybe. Definitely not cool.

Old VtM had a style, it was recognizable. Sometimes there are those games with striking and memorable style, like Planescape from AD&D. I feel like H5, however shitty it was, scratched that idea a little.

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>extremely innovative and very cool

I actually kind of enjoyed V5's focus on photography, it felt unique and for a modern edition (or one might say post-modern), I think it fits. It could be better with artwork framed as photography maybe, but I think it works well enough. Of course, a lot of it wasn't stylized and ended up a bit lazy but I think it had potential. I'm also rather surprised they never included Bloodlines 2 concept art or some other sort of experimental art to pad the edition and make it more memorable

>>98143865
Rumour has it that most of the traditional art in V5 was salvaged concept art from the WoD MMO.

>>98143875
Christ, that's grim

>>98143781
>buzz caused by the JP V5 cover.
I'd take a Japanese-flavoured VTM over a Swedish-flavoured one every day of the week.

>>98143781
V5 had some of the worst style in WoD book history.

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>>98139014
>But we want to really focus on; the things we are going to do with Vampire moving forward, giving everyone the space to really inhabit that power fantasy.
>This is the World of Darkness. World of Darkness functions a bit differently then many different TTRPGS in that the setting is baked into every mechanic in the game. It's not just like a generic action, all right? Like the flavor and how you are a power fantasy of being a vampire or maybe a werewolf.
>Diogo speaking: We want flair. Mechanics that are more intuitive and drive play. [A bit about his previous projects]. I played more traditional games, more narrative games. The first game I read in english was Vampire The Dark Ages. I got into the WoD a lot especially in the 90s and early 2000s, and am glad to be able to work with this. [Hard to understand because talk-over] We don't want to prepare a plot you have to follow, we want to make it more participative, more collaborative and make rules that help you improvise new things that can happen during play. Instead of specific things that have to happen in a certain order. Make it more personal, while making a character in the way you want it, informs what a vampire is, make you feel powerful in the game. But it should be hard choices [Hard to understand because talk-over]
I'm a little wary of how much this might be overcorrection from the "le personal horror" street level-circlejerk of you're-a-powerless schmuck that the old V5 LARPers like Karim Muammer were pushing in games like W5 and H5.

>>98143966
Overpowered is better than underpowered. It's always easier to simply limit the power level of your game, than to have to homebrew everything if you want a higher power level.

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All this talk of a new edition makes me mildly curious about what it'll be like. I hope the system is better than V5's.

I'll probably continue to play 2nd edition though.

>>98143966
If those slides are any indication of the artstyle they're going for now that photoshit is dead and buried, at least the books will look nice.

>>98143966
Overcorrection might be a problem if it goes all the way around to being bloodsucking superheroes instead. Would be kind of lame to abandon horror entirely

>>98143966
"We want our game to make you feel like a vampire at all times" was one of the fundamental problems with Bloodlines 2. Every problem had a supernatural vampire solution, without any regard for mundane and simple solutions to those problems. Phyre couldn't just carry and shoot a gun, they had to use telekinetic powers to make them float in the air and pull the trigger with their mind.

So focusing too much on the "power fantasy of being a vampire" and "baking that into every mechanic in the game" might lead to absurd shit like that, with vampires unable to do basic and ordinary human things, just like Bloodlines 2.

>>98143966
I don't think the problem is "overcorrection", it just feels like a soulless attempt to "give the fans what they want" without actually understanding what they want, they just chose the two most obvious things to correct.
And I don't think they're even capable of understanding the fans, they created a bubble in their social media where they never even acknowledge the existence of older stuff, so real fans don't talk to them.

>>98143966
The way I do WoD is "personal horror all the way up", more knowledge and more power means you can kill your average human more easily, sure, you're also aware of and surrounded by even more fucked up shit, and even in heaven there is no peace.

>>98141373
You're right, it is pretty funny
>splinter into three
>still wander around in isolated groups swinging dicks like you're a full clan fighting Setites and Baali on sight while dreaming of revenge on Tremeres
>piss everyone else off by refusing to tolerate imperfection
>if only they'd accept our mandate...
The Salubri clearly needed a Wrangler caste instead of a Watcher caste.

>>98143966
I think it's simpler than that, it still reads like boiler plate pandering. "Translate lore to mechanics" and "collaborative storytelling" are such basic RPG concepts that seeing them thrown up there is actually more worrying than anything else. The statements about agency and power/hard choices reminds me enough of critical statements I've made towards V5 that I'm wondering where my cut is. Lastly, the "love letter to the storyteller system" is I think perhaps the most telling that they don't understand the root problem and are just pandering to pander. The Storyteller system was never particularly good, people enjoyed oWoD in spite of it, not because of it. Some people, despite hating the lore, still used V5 rules because they preferred them. Hunger was controversial but the basic core rules? Not really, even if they were basically CofD rules but without the fixed difficulty of 8.

This all goes back to the root problem. If they actually cared about "the fans" they'd un-cancel 20th and CofD rather than keep the IP in stasis for however long it maybe takes to put out a new Vampire, then other splats after that.

TL;DR: I think they're pandering and I don't believe them.

>>98143197
What precisely do you think changed about the composition? General attitude? Amount of people with regular groups and games? Distribution of people playing which games?

Genuine question, who has it worse right now? Vampire (masquerade anyway) fans who are regularly getting new stuff but it's overwhelmingly crap? Or being a fan of anything else (oWoD lines except Vampire and Werewolf, CofD) who hasn't gotten any attention or new releases, and possibly never will? Because I can see an argument for either. Is it better to be known about but debased, or obscure and possibly dead but untouched?

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>>98144276
Being a fan of masquerade is slightly less shitty because you can sometimes find a small amount of copper (not gold, not silver) among all the trash.
Also, you can keep deluding yourself into believing things are going to get better. Someday.
Somehow.

>>98143564
>I think reluctant self loathing vampires would absolutely be doable.

I agree, but the Assamites aren't really reluctant or self-loathing. Most of them are firmly of the belief that their shit doesn't stink, and that other vampires being generally evil justifies their own monstrous behavior. I still think this idea works, especially if fleshed out, but it's definitely more explicitly antagonistic like the Setites.

>>98143608
I can see what you're saying, though I don't think it's entirely like straightforward conquest. Assamites aren't warriors, they're assassins. They do not fight fairly or even directly, they prefer to sneak dudes with vitae-based poisons. I always read Haqim as a coward. A bloodthirsty coward, but still a coward.

>>98143732
Personally I don't see deep storytelling and enjoyable action-adventure as mutually exclusive. I think one can greatly enhance the other.

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hot take: the old world of darkness and the V5 edition wearing it like a skin suit needs to be completely rebooted.

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>>98144393
WoD needs a complete rewriting to begin with, the game straight up has clans named Ventru and Lasombra ffs

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>>98144393
Yes, but paratrash is not going to do that.

>>98144403
>>98144407
man, sounds like a good idea for a fan project

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>>98144393
>those pictures
Here's your Baali.

>>98142892
I don't think the alliance of oWoD hunter orgs would work. How would you get the Arcanum to work with the SoL? Or the SoL to share any of it's secrets with the notoriously compromised SAD? I don't think there were enough major orgs to make up any meaningful coalition (Arcanum, SoL, SAD)

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>>98138247
Is it possible to play a Lasombra CEO character? I think the concept of playing a high class vamp who heads their own corporation to be really cool and the role playing opportunities it invites by having to manage the business without giving away what you are. But the clan weakness of Lasombra seems to be a deal breaker. All it would take is a single photo snapped at a function or walking past a mirror in a hallway to blow the whole thing open.

>>98144487
Don't be the CEO, pull the strings of the CEO

>>98144487
The Lasombra have issues when it comes to being public figures. They struggle with self-reflection.

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>>98143132

>>98144237
Genuine question, what would “uncancelling” WoD20th and CofD entail in this case?

>>98139166
>I don't know why the same general that despises V5 and will not shut up about how much they hate paradox is so easily lapping up such a blatant attempt at pandering.
There are too many people in this thread who can't accept that the IP is just dead. And it has been for more then a decade. They need to CONSOOOOOOOOOM. The same happened with Bloodlines 2.

>>98145238
This, unfortunately. It's difficult to move on from 2005, but it's been 21 years. There's kids who were born after our hobby died that are having sex, and possibly have children of their own. Let it go.

>>98144193
>The Salubri clearly needed a Wrangler caste instead of a Watcher caste.
that is what the healers where meant to be (leaders of the clan, in charge of saveguarding the herd from other cainites etc) but these guys had a terminal case of no spine so saulot dropped them for the tremere

>>98145098
At very least in WoD side getting the cancelled 20th Editions like Hunter and Demon. Most likely others like Mummy and Kuei-jin as well.
In CofD at least getting more books on all kinds of splats and potentially new splats all together like Deviant.

>>98143966
There's no overcorrection because street level was always a fake term invented by LARPers who didn't like original WOD. WoD was never streetlevel and the creators never intended to be so since the first edition of the 3 major splats. That was a term inveted by the redditor loser larpers who like to play the social victim and activists.

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>>98145275
this

>>98145249
The problem is not the time. Is the mentality. People still stumble upon old WoD lore and BL1 and think is good. But since revised came out and the unholy trinity of dumb writers picked the IP the thing has gotten worse. That write up above shows they still don't get it

>>98145352
Based as fuck. I would feed all the V5 devs and paradog staff to this guy. He would write a better edition than the larpers too

>>98145363
I disagree that they're separate. We can't go back to a pre-iPhone mentality. We can't go back to a pre-Facebook mentality. "Goth" is a sex fetish term instead of a kind of subculture or counterculture. When it comes to vampires in culture, what are our options? "Sinners", which is how blacks have always been exploited by whitey? "Nosferatu" remakes, where the audience recoiled in horror and condemned everyone involved for corpse raping? We live in a time where everything that made WoD delicious no longer exists, because time marched forward and the general consensus' mentality has changed.

>>98145252
>Saulot thought a bunch of hermetic mages turned not-tzismisce would do a good job at keeping humanity safe from vampires

For a man supposed to be vampire Buddha he doesn’t sound very wise

>>98145435
don't judge too much he was evil at the time and we all know the villain ball makes you stupid

he also thought that he could take over tremere's body the moment after the diablery and then spend a millenia fighting the guy so the tremere where probably meant to be quite different from what they ended up being

>>98145470
I thought he achieved Golconda before Tremere sucked him dry

>>98145387
That's where you're wrong my friend. We don't need to go back like these mindless corpodrones say every time they have a financial failure. We need to create something NEW. Trying to recreate WoD 1:1 in modern day would be a mistake. What you need is to keep what was good about it and reinvigorate it with your own fire. We don't need a pre-made IPs, we can create our own. Is proven that history and cultural trends come in cycles and we're just in time for the king to come back and take his throne from the jaws of the leeches.

>>98145552
you just agreed with her wtf you mean thats where your wrong??

>>98145552
We had Curseborne but you spat on it and let it languish and die.

>>98145529
he archived it in the city of golconda while moving eastwards but he has fallen out of it later when he tried to emulate the devil tiger dharma of the kuei jin, which also caused him to embrace the baali and made him unable to teach people the way to reach the state of golconda.
And at some point he also developed multiple personality discorder with saulot the healer being the father of the healer caste (duh) and generally is presented as being a good guy who wants to regain golconda and take control of the Inconnu and bring them back to the right path and the other being Saulot the warlord who is the father of the warrior salubri and baali who wants to win the jihad, kill the eldest (for which he is willing to cause a nuclear holocaust) and become the demon emperor of kuei jin mythology so that he can be a monster greater than caine and take his revenge on him for indirectly causing his damnation

v20 then added a 3rd personality called saulot the cancer who seemed to have taken on aspects of the eldest and wants to eat both the tremere and salubri and made it saulot's goal to seperate his personalities into different bodies

>>98145588
Dunno if it’s just me, but this feels like the writers kept changing the direction his character was supposed to take multiple times and then tacked on the “multiple personalities” to try reconcile everything

Do appreciate the explanation, anon. My thanks

>>98145658
what i think happened was that at first saulot was good guy. then they wanted to reveal that he was secretly evil because it's white wolf and there can't be fully good things in wod, but white wolf was very bad at keeping their different writers and teams informed about what the others where doing so some good guy saulot was written (mostly in the dark age books) at the same time as bad guy saulot was hinted at (mostly in modern night books)

and in the next edition at the time aka revised they decided that they are going to do the prelude to gehenna (something that dark age team also was not informed about so they were still thinking everything was buisness as usual while others where developing nwod already) and saulot has to show up during gehenna so they decided to just make it all true by making the guy mentally ill

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>>98145723
Doesn't most of Saulot bad stuff come from KotE? Just ignore that weeb nigger part of lore and he's a good guy as usual

>>98145746
no? most of the transilvania chronicles is about saulot the warlord and foiling his evil plans

It's more like saulot lore mentions kote not the other way around as zao-lat is actually mentioned very little in kote as as far as that game is concerned he is a millenia old footnote that the kuei jin think is dead and gone anyway, the game never even mentiones the watcher salubri despite their lore being 100% just kote related lore

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>>98144487
That's why the CEO is always away on business trips, acts through their assistants, and the only time you see them is when you stayed late working at the office on those reports. Then vid related happens:
https://youtu.be/oFUq73A0eVI

>>98145891
Holy shit, Chad video tastes anon.

>>98143979
historically speaking 2nd editions usually bring massive improvements for the most part. then again, dogshit is an improvement over abysmal dogshit

>>98146039
The 2nd edition of vtm was almost 30 years ago.

>>98146062
and vtr 2nd edition was 12 and a half years ago. what's your point?

>>98146087
that whatever paraslop is churning out now is not the 2nd edition

>>98145780
> the game never even mentiones the watcher salubri despite their lore being 100% just kote related lore
No wonder it felt like they came out of nowhere. I really do not care for KotE despite enjoying Saulot as a character, schizophrenia and all. Allow me to shill you guys this one:
https://youtu.be/P9dy9yx3iVY
>>98145273
>getting the cancelled 20th Editions like Hunter and Demon
Yes please. Lore collected, formatting cleaned up, and mechanics re-balanced would be a godsend. Especially for KotE, I recall seeing a fanmade book here that made the dharmas much more understandable.

>>98144487
>Is it possible to play a Lasombra CEO character?
It is possible, just kind of a pain in the ass to explain why the situation sustains itself, even if your characters are prideful enough to not give up the seat to a ghoul or dominate the board into submission.

>>98146181
it's the second edition of V5

>>98143323
100%, the Traditions are more a common set of guidelines that help maintain a relatively stable Kindred population rather than a hard ruling. Any of the Covenants could be in favour of flouting any of the traditions if you wanted to make it more institutional.

>>98146380
v5 stands for fifth edition

>>98146426
i thought it was vampire 5

>>98144262
>What precisely do you think changed about the composition? General attitude? Amount of people with regular groups and games? Distribution of people playing which games?
Not him but i used to post homebrew, silly paint images, storytimes and a soup recipe here and there was a shift in posters here when (or shortly after) the 20th editions dropped.
In general it became more hostile to non-OwOd posting and we still had a massive magefag infestation to the point that around 1/3rd of posts was just insults or baiting with whiteroom nonarguments. Even back then barely anyone had a group, and whenever i ask about your characters it seems like the same few people reply.
It feels like the thread moves extremly fast, sometimes i skip like 3 entire generals because they are only up for like 1 or 2 days now. But maybe i just had more free time back then.
I mostly post less now simply because life got in the way and i have less and less reason to post here anyways. No one seems to care for actualy playing anything, just endless arguments about stuff that will probably never come up in a game in a way the players realy notice. Add to that the white noise around v5bad and bloodlines and yeah, not realy a good time to talk about anything that's not vampire metaplot stuff and 1 dimensional pcs that are every clan clichee at once to the point where i wonder if people understand that their pc was a person before the embrace and didn't get agent smith'd by their sire

>>98146062
>1e vtm players are old enough to die of old age (assuming they got into it in their 30s)
Grim...

>>98140858
There's very little common ground between separate tables other than the game itself, so it's easier to focus on what the different tables have in common, which is the game.
If a story is too bombastic, it will be accused to being fabricated for clout and people will deride the author as an attention whore.
If a story isn't bombastic enough, it will be ignored because it doesn't provide anything interesting enough to make up for the absence of common ground. There's nothing to say to that sort of story time other than "cool story, glad you had fun."

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>>98143292
>As a Kindred could you just shoot them yourselves?
I suppose you could, but a smart hunter doesn't get into fair fights. When I used Sullivan Dane in my game he stalked the PCs and NPCs for a few nights from afar and got away with it thanks to those ridiculous Stealth+Dexterity dicepools to figure out where the kindred of the city met, and when a big gathering at Elysium happened he set the mansion on fire and sniped from afar with a couple assistant goons. As soon as one of the kindred escaped the burning mansion and could retaliate he drove away. Got 2 and injured several of the Kindred of Gary.

>>98147290
Always a joy to see someone use his brain when utilising hunters.

>>98147290
How did he manage to light an Elysium on fire without anyone noticing?

>>98147449
The Elysium in question was Modius' Mansion in Gary, Indiana. Modius, despite being the Prince, has basically no way of enforcing his rule and is openly disrespected by a local Brujah Juggler due to Gary being pretty much a satellite of Lodin's Chicago with less than 10 kindred, so it's a small domain. The book states his mansion is tended by 2 servant ghouls Dominated to the gills which Dane managed to roll well enough to sneak around and plant packs of accelerants and hidden cameras due to the aforementioned ridiculous Stealth stats.

Him leaving was not only due to the kindred exiting the mansion, but due to the fire department noticing the giant cloud of smoke. He's laying low for now but I'll see when I can use him again. A neonate failed her Rotschreck check so she got sniped, mauled, and trapped in the burning mansion. The Prince's childe Allice took a bullet to protect her sire bodyguard style since she was Blood Bonded, a third kindred got torpored but she'll be ok after a month due to the PC carrying her out.

>>98147405
I know he's got True Faith 8/4 but you don't get nearly put on the Red List as a mortal by charging at kindred with a dragon's breath shotgun. Gotta have a plan.

>>98147604
The real superpower of hunters is prep time, anything else is a nice bonus.

>>98147719
Doesn't that statement apply to literally everyone? If you have time to make preparations, your odds of success go up!

>>98147788
True but othe splats can afford to brute force their encounters.

>>98143766
Again, deterioration of TU influence isn't because Sleepers are somehow more influential, it's because Nephandi have infiltrated their organization and are misdirecting their power and resources without them picking up on it. That's the whole point of the rise of 'populism' in modern WoD, that the TU doesn't see the problem with it, but this blinds them to how Nephandi are using those forces. Hell, the closest thing to M5 that exists is probably Mage the Refuge, and in that the TU /are/ the national populists, so it's incoherent either way really.

Fundamentally, WoD is a mystical place of inhuman horrors, it is only through the constant efforts of various conspiracies, mainly the TU, that this isn't obvious everywhere to everyone. The Consensus itself isn't strong enough to shut down mystical phenomenon in the first place, it only marginally inhibits them, and then usually only in dense urban areas in Europe and North America. If the TU diminishes, it means their enemies are ascendant, and all of their enemies would quickly dismantle or usurp the Second Inquisition for overtly mystical purposes that run at odds with the Technocracy and its goals.

>>98145588
>who is the father of the warrior salubri
Wasn't that specifically Samiel being enough of an autist that he just made his blood change?

>>98147290
So why does he need high True Faith for that? That doesn't seem to utilize his True Faith at all, and it seems more like the kind of thing you would have a special strike team for.

>>98148534
because it’s fucking cool?

>>98148275
just like the baali wars they are involved in the warrior salubri backstory and nature are a mess they are either:
>Been around as long as clan salubri existed as equals to the healers
>samiel changing his own blood after a alledged angelic vision
>something saulot cooked up specifically to counter the baali after he returned from asia which pissed of haqim who claimed that killing unworthy vampires was his clan's job and made him aware that saulot was only playing the harmless healer and vampire saint
>not actually a bloodline in the normal sense but a cult that changes your disciplines through pure autism but leaves your childe to be normal salubri unless they also join the cult and go through the training. kinda like the warrior setites
i went with 3 because that's the one the same that the book line that features saulot the most went with

>>98148627
Castes been a mistake ngl

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>>98148627
That scrapped DAV20 version where each salubri
turned into a member of the caste most compatible with his personality was pretty cool.

>>98148684
kinda lame that they scrapped it because it would fix the writing error where several salubri have sires or childe listed who aren't part of the same caste and turn it into a feature

>>98148534
Nta but True Faith lets you detect the presence of anything supernatural. You won't be pinging them like a radar but you'll know they're close. It's useful for detecting / tracking your targets.

>>98148716
warrior salubri had a ritual kinda like the warrior setites and ventrue antitribu where they could baptize other salubri and change their bloodline to warrior salubri

>>98148717
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Thank you, anon.

>>98148108
Alternatively, the Nephandi have been nudging the needle and subtly steering society off course from within the Union, and society has reached a critical mass that prevents course correction at this point, so the Nephandi are gleefully cackling as society propels itself towards chaos while the Union desperately tries to figure out where everything went wrong. All the while, the Masses keep on enforcing the Technocratic paradigm on their own, without any need for NWO indoctrination at this point. While there are still forces to fear and that need fighting, it's the Void Engineers who take care of those sorts of things. When it comes to matters of consensus, society has become self-policing.

And from a reader's perspective, the world going off of the rails and careening towards the abyss without any method of correcting course is a lot more compelling and interesting than the prospect that somehow, everything going on in the world is still progressing according to a master plan and a secret society still remains in control of everything. When everyone can feel that the world is starting to buckle, even when everyone is blaming it on different things, the myth of a hyper-competent deep state like the Technocratic Union starts to fall apart.

The 20th century Technocracy just doesn't make sense in the 21st century.

I kinda don't hate amalgam disciplines...

>>98140867
I recommend the Mage the Awakening official noir scenario. It's kinda fun. I think the book is called "Mage Noir".

>>98140858
I agree with >>98147128. I used to post my game sessions here and since nobody cared that much, the effort to interact and bring something interest to the thread just wanned. And it's fine, but sometimes I miss sharing here. My character is now between plots and nothing really interesting is happening aside from some punctual discoveries on some NPCs, melodrama and a funny dialogue here and there.

>>98147058
>1 dimensional pcs that are every clan clichee at once to the point where i wonder if people understand that their pc was a person before the embrace and didn't get agent smith'd by their sire
My man... That's something I grew in not enjoying in some players: Their necessity to create a character with no ties and bonds aside their Sire and PC coterie. They never want trouble and always try to get their way out of situations they themselves create (and this normaly fall on other players' laps).
I'm building slowly and a form to filter some players if one day I wanna ST outside my group.

>>98147072
All my LARP friends are from 1st edition VTM. They're living quite well and a couple of them even married and had kids. Sometimes even their kids parley with us in LARP. It's kinda cute desu.

>>98149144
Someone has to control everything because there are hands that would seize it from humanity altogether otherwise. You cannot abdicate the TU's position, and you are vastly minimizing the impact and cost of maintaining the VE vigil. That is the most expensive project on Earth, by far. They are fighting Dyson Sphere-possessing ETIs, they are waging wars with alien civilizations, and they are fighting mystical and fallen Archmasters, not to mention all of the effort that goes into policing other splats and their cosmic threats. Even if the TU somehow wasn't able to influence public opinion just, 'because', they would maintain all of their physical and social infrastructure that allows them to make unitary command decisions without interference simply because the only people who can even potentially stop them are other Mages.

Nephandic corruption isn't uniform or self-sustaining any more than the TU's philosophy of Consensus or the mystic paradigms, so no, Sleepers can't suddenly overpower Arete with their indifference, they still get de-atomized by plasma weapons and physically controlled by brain chips.

Contemporary internet society is a difficult place for the TU to maintain its control over compared to the 90s, sure, I fully grant that, but that's because their rivals, the Mystics, the mad, and the fallen, are all ascendant by comparison. Nobody can lose to Sleepers, it is not physically possible.

>>98149149
>amalgam disciplines
Ah, yes, the slow man's devotions/combination disciplines

>>98149149
My only real issue is theyre very stripped down. Dementation and Serpentis were reduced to 1 discipline power. Chimerstry got 2. Vicissitude atleast has 3. Maybe if they fleshed them out a little bit more Id be fine with it but right now it just feels too bare bones.

I do resent that Vicissitude caps the number of alterations to your discipline rating and you need to spend physical attribute dots to use the power for something as simple as tweaking my face and skin color.

>>98149378
>spoilers
Tzitrash cucked again!

>>98149327
I guess there's a fundamental disconnect between our perceptions of the World of Darkness then, since I perceive collective humanity as the most powerful force in the setting, and the only reason why it doesn't roll over everything else is because everything else hides or is hidden from it, and because humanity is not capable of consciously acting as a collective. I can't bring myself to agree with the idea that mankind is remotely as vulnerable to the supernatural as it was a thousand years ago. While there are still external threats for the Void Engineers to deal with in order to protect humanity and its perception of reality, I cannot agree with the idea that the Technocratic Union still micromanages most facets of a world that grows exponentially more complex with every year.

And frankly, even if I could believe that an increasingly chaotic world is still under the absolute control of a secret society, it would be a bit boring if it was. It's more interesting to play with a Technocracy that's falling apart and struggling to plug a thousand leaky holes in their ship, than a Technocracy that's smoothly sailing along, with the only problem being that someone on board is drinking the blood of orphans.

>>98149402
>even if I could believe that an increasingly chaotic world is still under the absolute control of a secret society, it would be a bit boring if it was

|
|>
|3
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Yeah, I'd say we have a fundamental disconnect, schlomo. WoD is a world controlled by conspiracies in a very direct and physical sense, there is no abdication of any supernatural authority without a competing one stepping in to seize control. There is no part of Earth in its entire history that has ever been directed by Sleepers, even for a moment. Every single chapter of human history was guided by its best and brightest as they battled inhuman terrors, I suppose with the single exception of the Civilization of Ashes. The idea that anything in the world would be immune to organized Mage conspiracies simply because there's a lot of people is a deeply retarded sentiment and you are clearly just angry at the reality that the modern world is even more tightly controlled than the recent past. "I can't believe a conspiracy controls things because scale :^(" meanwhile hideous rats drive a superpower to suicide for their schizophrenia IN THE REAL WORLD.

>Slaugh Goth boy x Lasombra Latina baddie
Name a hotter pairing.

>>98149430
Top-heavy tsundere Brujah who keeps getting dominated by the well-hung Ventrue shota.

So, i fucked up. I was putting together a dossier for my game in the middle of the night, in a delirious state. Now, I have no idea what I had in mind for half of those ideas.
I have an NPC who was embraced by something far too ancient in Europe.
He has weakness of an insatiable hunger and ability to use Quietus. Seems straightforward who he is, but im confident that i had some kind of clever twist in my mind. Any ideas how can i subvert this concept a bit?

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>>98149581
>in a delirious state
You need to use some magical mushrooms to unlock your memories.

>>98149598
I'm afraid of what I might find there. Personal horror and such.

>>98145552
That was Requiem were lore is a suggestion and you can have fun not worrying about nothing mattering because gehenna is in a week.

>>98149430
me x ticking biological clock Kitsune (fera)

>>98149402
>I can't bring myself to agree with the idea that mankind is remotely as vulnerable to the supernatural as it was a thousand years ago.
Even if admittedly the point made in crucible about modern society having a glass jaw in some places is pretty solid like how in theory you can kill more than a hundred million people in the US if you blow up the wrong five substations.

>>98149837
>about modern society having a glass jaw in some places

This is probably my lack of faith in my fellow man talking, but I'm definitely of the opinion that a shattered masquerade would not be the one-sided stomp it's often presumed to be. I think it presumes a unity that just doesn't exist. Not only is modern infrastructure so fragile that it'd be fairly easy to remove the normie's biggest advantage (the ability to operate at scale) in the opening volley, but I doubt that there'd be enough unity and frankly trust to actually take advantage of that brief window when all the normies can bring to bear the full weight of that scale. That, and those medieval people were tougher than we are. Mentally and physically, I think modern man's pain threshold is just too low, at least in the developed world. Only the true thirdies have that level of toughness really, and they've got less ability to fight at scale plus equally weak infrastructure outside of remote villages and to top it all off, plenty of disunity of their own.

Which is not to say I think it'd be a total washing for the normies, I think they'd still kill a metric truckload of supernaturals. But it's extremely pyrrhic and I don't think they'd get all of them. Meaning billions would die and the world would be sent back a century at best, millennia at worst.

>>98149523
Based beyond measure. Hot as fuck.

>>98147058
To be fair, we did have that streak of Vigil games being posted a while back, and there's still an occasional game storytime. But I feel you. I probably am one of those same handful of people who responded to your "what does your character..." prompts.

>>98147128
>>98149285
Interesting. I don't even really see it all as one "game", and that's where a lot of my issues stem from. I can't meaningfully comment on over half of the gamelines because I don't play them and don't know much lore about them. I'd like to provide a response, but oftentimes I just can't.

I also wonder if it's just a result of the changing character of the internet, it seems to lack vigor now compared to 10-15 years ago. Like it all has depression and can't muster the energy.

Well thanks for indulging me, apologies if it got all doomer-y there.

>>98149430
Silver fang ahroun x shadow lord ragabash
Both are male

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>>98149402
Lets consider what would happen to each supernatural splat in general in a broken Masquerade. Even going further into an united humanity who for some reason want to exterminate all of them.

Vampire: Bunch of young vampires die, some Elders die, a few Methuselahs die. The remaining ones basically hijack humanity, just like the time Brujah Council was in control of Russia and its nuclear program.

Werewolf: A huge number of Garou and other shapeshifters die. Too bad the remaining ones can basically unseal all the shit they kept sealed, Ratkin can do their disease shit, Nuwisha can walk up to a UN meeting and slaughter everyone without anyone noticing.

Mage: Even if they somehow have ways to find mages among humans, a few Mages die and then the world remember why Mages ruling from wizard towers and Illuminati is an essential trope.

Wraith: There are basically billions of Wraiths and they are not just a modern civilization but also a magitech one living in a separate dimension. Plus a decent chunk of casualties and a large chunk of damages they infict in the living world will basically net them more personnel and equipment. Between an aircraft carrier and a ghost aircraft carrier, I am betting on the latter.

Changeling: Let's say they somehow find ways to determine Changelings from humans, instead of just grabbing everyone eccentric and furry. Changelings are basically second only to Mages in their ways of fucking things up.

Mummy: ...they are fine. Even if they bury them in steel and toss them into space, the fate has ways of bringing them back. Unless they are willing to nuke all Mummies point blank. (Even then, they are still in the Underworld and can fuck your shit up)

Hunter: Too stupid even for this debate. Why would they hunt Imbued hunters?

Demon: They will just find new hosts.

>>98149430
Mage and his clone (female)

>>98150315
I was thinking the other day, that in CofD it would be impossible to get rid of supernaturals. For example, vampire clans and Promethean lineages already came to be spontaneously and independently of each other, there's no reason new ones couldn't just appear again if they were all killed. Other splats are created by gods or otherworldly beings, so without destroying the source there will always be more of them. Werewolfes are probably the only ones that could go extinct, since Father Wolf is dead.

>>98150357
>woofs can go extinct in both settings

you love to see it.

Hunterbros, what's your concealed carry of choice? What small, concealable weapons do you bring to those tasks where you just can't carry anything big and obvious? Is there even a point to packing a small pistol as a Hunter, or is the usefulness against quislings and certain supernaturals with the right load (silver, iron) make it worth it?

Maybe this is a stupid question, but is there no chance we see any other splats again? Like no way they make a changeling V6 or V5 or something?

>>98150511
Bro, your snub .44 magnum?

>>98150542
the fuck you on about?

>>98150542
Nah, they are probably just ditching 5th Edition as we know it because the fundementals of the edition can barely make VTM and Hunter work. It basically fucked over W5 and they would literally need to start from scratch for Mage and Changeling.

>>98150108
What I'm hearing is that the Red Talons would me furiously masturbating every step of the way in that clusterfuck.

>>98150567
I just wanted to hope for more recent books for all of the weird splats I like.

>>98150621
That was my hope honestly, like if V6 is decent and flexible (really crossing fingers here) then it would be nice to get a modern iteration of mage or something.

>>98150660
no, i meant why in god's name do you think they're not gonna bring more splats? it's not like they're releasing the new edition because they've done everything they wanted to do with WoD5

>>98150674
Because this IP seems to consistentally fall to the greediest and most incompetent people, who I could see refusing to make anything that wouldnt sell as well as VtM.

>>98150674
V5 took 8 years to make 2.5 splats, and even the one they actually cared about had roughly similar if not inferior book output in that time frame as both VtM and VtR, which were both coming out alongside at least a half dozen other splats.

I find this speculating about a whole lot of nothing to be annoying, but it's not unreasonable to question if one will have to wait another half-decade to see anything other than vampire IF a new edition comes to fruition and IF it doesn't immediately crash and burn.

>>98150636
Yeah the chuds of the garou would probably be rock hard even though it'd almost ensure that the garou would absolutely lose so many woofs and kin that they'd be beyond the ability to recover and would be condemned to slow extinction. But hey, at least they owned modernity one last time.

>>98150691
while paradox is indeed greedy and incompetent, they're a different breed of greedy and incompetent.

>>98150724
it seems unlikely that paradox would greenlight a new edition if they're planning to get rid of the IP entirely. that and *if* we're getting new spalts and *when* we get them are different questions

>>98150748
>it seems unlikely that paradox would greenlight a new edition if they're planning to get rid of the IP entirely.

Well obviously, but I find that unlikely. They never bought the IP for the TTRPG, they bought it for vidya, the new edition was supposed to be a springboard for that, and it failed. I think the objective here is very different, this isn't some grand overture. It's pretty cheap to make a TTRPG, the only expensive thing is the print run. They're probably using this as a test to see if the brand is beyond recovery or not. Put whoever they can scrape together on this pandering project as a way to gauge if there's still interest if they nostalgia-bait hard enough. If the answer is yes, they know what angle to take on the vidya front. More importantly, a positive reception to a new edition would make the sell to developers easier. If the answer is no, then they either shelve or sell it probably, though they've already been more obstinate and loss tolerant than I think anyone was expecting with this IP.

Either way, I think you're misattributing if you think letting whoever's left try one last time to make a vampire core means they'll absolutely greenlight the other splats, even if that new core fails catastrophically.

>>98150108
I don't think anyone except the nephandi would come out on top. Everyone would lose, total chaos all the way. If they're lucky Big G would be sick of bitch boy C's shit and restart the whole universe.

>>98150795
i don't think it's as doom and gloom as you're making things out. paradox as a company is way more interested in niche games they can milk for DLC so having no "witcher 3" success story on their hands isn't nearly as bad for paradox as it would be for something like activision, that and everybody and their dog can tell that the failure of WoD as a video game franchise wasn't because of the IP but because they were either niche games or grossly mismanaged.

>>98150551
>snub .44 magnum
I wouldn't go anything higher than a .357 for concealed revolver. In a panicked, quickdrawing situation I don't want something that kicks like a horse. Especially since that .44 won't be doing that much more unless what I'm shooting at is already seriously hurt by bullets or I'm shooting something that does hurt them.

>>98150315
There are less than a hundred thousand of all of the splats combined across the world, and billions of humans. Everyone other than the absolutely most terrifying specimens of each splat can die to a small group of humans with shotguns taking them by surprise.

>>98150829
I wouldn't call it doom and gloom, but I would call it dismissive since I'm really tired of this wild speculation about a new edition which hasn't even been publicly announced. If the people making it won't even say "we're making V6", then it even happening is not a guarantee. That and I'm done giving Paradox and/or whatever vassal company "white wolf" they're using the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this IP. I think even their best is probably still worse than letting it die, because that at least comes with the upswing of empowering fan content due to lack of official releases and thus democratizing the IP.

And I would absolutely in part blame the vidya's failure on the current state of the IP. Which is more attractive to a developer? Two settings, with at least six sub-settings each, that you can pick and choose from when making your game? Or one recent, highly controversial rebooted setting with at most 2.5 sub-settings, each of which is more restrictive than any of their previous incarnations? The games are either niche or mismanaged because they can't for the life of them get anyone better to make a game for them.

>>98150511
>is there even a point to packing a small pistol as a Hunter, or is the usefulness against quislings and certain supernaturals with the right load (silver, iron) make it worth it?
Anything that increases your chances of surviving is worth it. Monsters are the most obvious threat but regular humans can cause even more problems. You never know if some random crackhead decides to rob you or a cop pulls you over. I'd go for something above 9mm and decent mag size (custom ammo is also a plus).

>>98150878
i wouldn't call "paradox is gonna bring back an older splat eventually" wild speculation.
that and the "new edition" thing got leaked by gencon. you can blame them for it.

>>98150882
I mostly agree but drawing on a cop is a really stupid idea for a hunter. Absolute last case scenario, and even then it's better to stick them up rather than kill them if possible.

If not in a first world country, ignore.

>>98150874
>garou
>being taken out by humans with shotguns

Not to mention that there are only such limited numbers of vampires because of the Masquerade and Camarilla hunting/warring with the Sabbat. The Sabbat would thrive in this case, turning neighborhoods in a night and loosing them on the survivors.

Anyway, every splat can pretty much take humanity, except maybe Changelings, but the issue there is moreso with the True Fae who are canonically way fucking stronger than Earth militaries and the only hope against them are Mage conspiracies.

Billions of humans mostly live in jeetistan and africa, those darkies aren't doing any damage to any splat on any level. China and the DPRK maybe have some success shorn of their Mage handlers but only for a couple hours, then they crumble as the whole central government is taken out/mind controlled by like one coterie or cabal.

Humanity is weak as fuck in WoD, except in that they have the fundamental capacity to be the best and most powerful race by fulfilling their Mage potential.

>>98150939
As always, everything depends on your circumstances. It's better to let them go if you give them nothing to work with (no face, prints, etc.) but you might not have that luxury. If you ask me, it depends on what you can get away with.

>>98150970
>Billions of humans mostly live in jeetistan and africa, those darkies aren't doing any damage to any splat on any level
Worse, they'll be actively helping most mages since a lot of them believe in all sorts of whacky stuff.

>>98143966
>v5 Comes out
>Guess I'm remaining on v20
>v6 Comes out
>Guess I'm remaining on v20
>When v7 comes out, shockingly, I'll probably keep on v20

How hard is it for you to range your fucking games man? So long and thanks for the thinblood crackhead options, I guess.

>>98151026
Yeah. Though this is a good example of why every hunter cell needs a face. Getting arrested isn't necessarily a death sentence, and you can even avoid arrest in the first place with a good enough talker. Even better if you can get a man on the inside of the local PD.

>>98149387
Tzims prolly got cucked the least of those 4. FoS might as well have married Bonnie Blue with how bad v5 gutted them. I dont even like Setites and I feel bad for them.

>>98151406
I think their renaming makes sense as something the clan would actually call themselves to outsiders. Suits their cultist vibe. The false sense of importance people will get when they hear 'ministry' like the way lobbying groups and thinktanks will give themselves official sounding names to lend themselves legitimacy. Then you enter the depths of the cult and you reach the Followers of Set rabbit hole.
But then reading their actual new lore, no apparently a lot of Setites just defected basically no reason given.
Would still say Ravnos got it worse. They never had it good, per see, but basically all the flavor they did have as the trickster socially undesirable outcasts among socially undesirable outcasts cot stripped away in favor of Clan Bane: Please die and Clan Compulsion: Please die.

>>98150970
I mean, are mages a separate species from humans, though?

>>98150167
>I'd like to provide a response, but oftentimes I just can't.
Not knowing about the lore of each gameline is fine. Not every game follows the lore at risk. One of my first games in New York I did my own setting and my friend enjoyed it a lot. In fact, my friend put some lore bits in our game and this gave me more room for me to work with. It was delightful.
What you can do is, for instance:
Ask about the players' characters;
Ask about the NPCs and their dynamics;
Ask about how the ST's plans on the adventure;
And so on.
If you have any doubts about the lore and how it's in their game, just ask. Everyone will be happy to answer and creates a healthier environment.
>I also wonder if it's just a result of the changing character of the internet, it seems to lack vigor now compared to 10-15 years ago. Like it all has depression and can't muster the energy.
Also this. A lot of this.

>>98151481
I was thinking more along the lines of how gutted their disciplines were. I dont like the default clan bane for ravnos but i like their alt bane where if you learn their 'living' name they take a penalty to using disciplines on you and resisting your disciplines on them.

>>98151503
Mages are human but most humans are sleepers.