Now that the dusk has settled, why did Games Workshop introduce terribly conceived, non-grimdark, NASA, le heckin cowboy viking, AI dwarves who secretly control all the galactic core to Warhammer 40k?
They had a little spare change laying around from surplus Space Marine sales
>>98142293Because they knew people would buy it.
>>98142293Ran out of French comics to rip off
I don't understand the hateboner so many people here have with themIs it just because they're new or were people super hyped for space dwarfs and got super let down
>>98142293Because Squats didn't have a lot to appeal to anyone so they decided to use them to try and expand into a slightly less represented space.Probably started with some of the sculpters messing with cleaner Admech with robot friends, which doesn't fit the lore to be imperium so, guess we'll make them imperium adjacent
>>98142896It’s old dwarf mentality but real life. They grudge for the grudge.
I want more of the Kin, but GW refuses to do anything other than suck off Space Marines while giving the Orks a reacharound
>>98142682BD really is great.
>>98143089Ork life ain’t so badI do with other xenos got more love though
>>98142293>dusk
Because they wanted to bring squats backIf you don't like the aesthetics of them that's just your subjective tasteNot every army will appeal to everyone... that's exactly why they make so many of them.
They should’ve made them evil as fuck. Like a North Korea tier dictator state that lived in the core. Then the rift opened and they ventured out in one all-directional invasion to flee their doomed home. Make them a technological contrast to the tyranids. Tyranids are hive mind bio weapons from beyond the rim. Votann are a people brutally oppressed by AI overlords constantly driven to death for glory.Their actual lore is so lame>they get along with most people and have no real enemiesWhat the fuck is the point of them in a wargame. They should’ve stayed a lore blurb until they decide to get fucking hardcoreHell, keep the existing concept but change one thing. Make the imperium know about their AI worship. This would make them a proper genocide target
>>98142293>>98143350Even with keeping the AI cores a secret, all it really takes is for the AI to be even more unstable and for them to follow the advice more closely. The AI demands you go to war over $15 that a planetary governor still owes you from a century ago? Then you go to war. Basically just the Book of Grudges, except it's an incomprehensively massive spreadsheet, and the AI is routinely fucking up. Or maybe beyond that, and some of the AI cores are holdovers from the Men of Iron or C'tan shards, and so are actively cooking the books so the Votann will follow some convoluted war plan all for the sake of settling debts. They can still have some of them posing as squats/abhumans/demiurg and being the more solitary traders who don't interact with the AI cores as often (just in case there's still a need to have them act more reasonable). The important part is that they have some reason to fight with all of the other factions beyond pure survival or pragmatism. If they wanted to lean into the viking angle harder then they should have delved into the same sort of fuckery that the Space Wolves have with their own world sprit and rune priests.
>>98142896The latter. I was even fine with the lore changes, but their application is just so toothless and visually sauceless. They COULD be cool, but GW either won't let them or currently lacks the talent to properly execute the ideas they came up with.Essentially, they're Potential Faction.
>>98142293Dunno, it should have been Hrud and they should have been scifi lizardskavenmen.
>>98142569they have a customer base of overpaid, mostly childless white men that have nothing else to spend their money on and get a high off seeing boxart so they hoard boxes and boxes of grey plastic sprues that will inevitable get sold in a garage sale or ebay.
>>98143887They've got more than what Tau had when they launched and people spent 14 years begging GW for more mechs.What do you feel is unrealised?
>>98143982I don't know which is worse; the kind of slack-jawed consoomer that builds walls of boxes like he's opening a store and thinks it's cool, or the self-hating retard that does the same but feels bad about it but can't stop doing it. I'm the latter, by the way.
>>98143350>Like a North Korea tier dictator state that lived in the core. That's what the Imperium of Man is for.
They didn't believe that a regular dwarf aesthetic would sell. Ironically, Necromunda Squats have to be the best selling gang in that game, and they're more in line with traditional dwarfs, although they kinda diverted from the OG designs that you can find on Forgeworld models for Necromunda
>>98142293No clear central vision. Some people wanted them as a counterpoint to the Imperium that shows better societies are possible, others wanted them to be evil hyper capitalists, and nobody could quite decide how grimdark the AI super computers themselves were meant to be. The fluff is written like it's sucking them off 80% of the time before occasionally remembering it's Warhammer and gesturing vaguely at some underdeveloped implication of grimdark. Meanwhile one sculpter was doing sci fi cyborg berserkers and wizards while another was doing leather jacketed hover bikers with the nasapunk through line already straining to tie them together, as a third guy was snuggling in Norse details across the range at random.Compare to Tau, and I think there was a much more coherent narrative and aesthetic vision with the high tech combined arms plus mecha force that's building an expansionist but non-xenophobic empire, itself a counter point to the Imperium that reflects a more optimistic and relatable approach but makes them naive upstarts in a setting as extreme as 40k. It even still allowied room to experiment in terms of models with their auxiliaries, while the mechs gave them endless runway for conventional expansion.Then you have Votann being a dreadnought equivalent and jump pack unit away from having almost nowhere left to go with the range.
>>98142293Because they were too late to the game, someone did those grimdark space Dwarfs already. And since Primaris are on a tacticool design update agenda.
>>98142682I thought it was 2000AD UK comics?
>>98144311The short Imperial Guard + Nordic huscarls + outlaw biker mashup was always a tricky one to unite. It's likely why they went away in the first place, no 'hat' to hang on them, whereas at least in Epic they had the "mental fuck-huge war machines" angle to work with.Tau, as you say, are a much more straightforward beastie, and benefited from being able to be designed without one eye on a legacy.
>>98142293So that people would stop asking about squats. It was just to spite oldfags.And sell new models on the basis of them being overpowered and then immediately nerved before people even got their codex in the mail lmao.
>>98143089Thats the problem, Space Marines is were the money is at. And Chaos Space Marines.You probably just could go and make it a SM vs Chaos SM game.
>>98144311>>98143982The biggest problem might be that they dont have enough time to build them, no friend around to play it regularly. And so there is no “pressure“ for them to make their army in the next month.
>>98144446Or just show it off. I've recently joined a painting/arts & craft group and it's amazing how much more motivated to Get Shit Done I am when I can peacock a bit IRL.
>>98144499Thats probalby limited by the time they have. And thats why so many make a Youtube channel, to show their work. And even they have a pile of shame!Besides the female version is the Dark Romance reader. They have a Fomo that they need that product because it could be gone or it looks like that they belong to that fan group.
>>98142293They wanted the destiny audience
>>98142896Their lore is reddit and their models look like under 3 toys.
>>98144528>Besides the female version is the Dark Romance reader.This. And dont forget males and females with entire walls, with sneaker shelves, or shelves for their basecap collection.. or hoarding cloth in general. I have a co-worker, (woman, single, 30s), who literally rents a 3 room appartment, and one of the rooms is just to store her cloth. And i guarantee you, there is plenty of things with the store tag still on, or otherwise never worn). Hoarding and/or fomo purchases are a real thing, in pretty much any hobby or interest group. It really isn't limited to warhammer or scale modellers.
>>98144681Yeah. Well put. Some start as collectors or fan of something than end hoarding stuff.
This thread is Reddit
>>98142293designated tranny faction
>>98142293I feel like two aspects of the problem are these:One, Squats were originally from a time when 40k took itself a lot less seriously and worked more on rule of cool/power metal vibes. You could just have biker dwarves in space because why not? But now that 40k has kind of lost its parodic roots, you can't just have "Fantasy dwarves... but in space". You can't just keep a faction around as a joke.But I think the bigger problem was that all of the "Dwarfy" aesthetic niches are already occupied by the Imperium. Boxy, industrial vehicles with sharp angles? That's the Space Marines (and incidentally, is that how they would design Space Marine vehicles now, if there was no precedent?). Vikings, axes, drinking, and runes? That's the Space Wolves, in particular. Impossibly large artillery? That's the Guard. Fuck it, repurposed mining gear? They even gave that one to the Genestealers already (which they stole from the Imperium). So they had to do something new with them but they couldn't really do anything that would intrude on another faction's territory. So we end up with something very different. But then, it's too different. The Imperium inherited its Gothic aesthetic from the DAoT; why is Votann tech so different? IMHO they should've just ported the Kharadron into space, the baroque look would've been a perfect "distant cousin" of the Gothic.
>>98145114>You can't just keep a faction around as a joke.Orks are the obvious joke faction, but you have a point. But i think the time for "Bikers in Space" is simply over, similar to how Catachans are not as popular any more. Those tropes just lost their popularity. >But then, it's too different. The Imperium inherited its Gothic aesthetic from the DAoT; why is Votann tech so different? IMHO they should've just ported the Kharadron into space, the baroque look would've been a perfect "distant cousin" of the Gothic.My odd take: They could have made the squats part of the AdMech. A distant sect, but clearly related indesign and belief, but in secret their machine god would be the AI.
This thread is the Dunning–Kruger effect
>>98145135>They could have made the squats part of the AdMechAlso an option (I did forget, the high-tech niche is already taken by them); or have them have their own AdMech within the faction.
This thread killed Tupac
>>98143887I can empathize with that because it's basically how I feel about the chaos dwarfs in AoS.
This thread went to the island
>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/90302542>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96592331>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/97519014>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/97758551What's the end goal here? This is obviously the same faggot.
>>98142293A big problem is the name. They're not actually votann so they don't even get billing on their own book, and kin is terrible. Should have stuck with Demiurg, that was a solid space dwarf name.
>>98144440It's called Horus Heresy
This thread turned lasguns into blasters
>>98145226Good point. It is still being made, so Space Marines vs Space Marines can support itself for 4 years.
>>98145209This!
>>98145398One of the things I didn't understand is, I really liked these guys in BFG. Their ships were whatever but being able to run auxiliary stuff in the Tau fleet felt cool. And it was established in BFG that Tau Ion weapon technology came from the Demiurg. But then when they introduced Votann, they suddenly retconned that Tau railguns, probably *the* defining Tau weapons system, also just came from the Votann. It felt so lame and to be actively made both factions less cool:>the votann signature weapon is just the tau one and the tau didn't invent that actually, the votann did
>>98144113The self hating retard. At least the former is being true to themselves. You're caught up in some self deception and loathing addiction shit.
>>98145167Tupac's not dead. He's a C'tan.
>>98142293I like them its GW who refused to give them the tau treatment. They were never intended to be a serious faction which is criminal
>>98144006>They've got more than what Tau had when they launchedNot really, the tau had the whole naive optimism with undercurrent of soft totalitarianism going for them, as well as the tactical combined arms that set them apart from both space marines and guard while managing to draw comparisons to both armies. There was also the fun meta irony of them being the "evil alien conglomerate empire" that you'd see in other sci-fi franchises (tons of direct comparisons with Halo's Covenant were made on their release), but in 40K you had people arguing they were the good guys. What do the Votann have that compares? They're just diet space wolves with the odd robot thrown in. They even have their own diet rune priests who are plot armored against the warp.>What do you feel is unrealised?Quite a few things, really. The main one is their aesthetic does not convey that they're a breakaway DAoT society with 10K years of divergence and innovation under their belt. You're honestly telling me that the best thing a DAoT society could come up with in that time is Minirines equipped with Bolter 2.0s and Lasgun 2.0sAnother one is Ironkin are handled extremely poorly. We're told they're no different from Fleshkin in terms of respect/affection/etc, but then you've got E-COGs, which are fucked up mechaservitors. How do Ironkin feel about serving alongside lobotomized, mute clones of themselves? Are they programmed not to feel about it? Are E-COGs even nonsentient or do they just have no vocal grille and thus can't protest their suffering? Would vashtorr or some other chaos god be able to corrupt an E-COG and have it lead an Ironkin revolution? Like I said, unrealized potential that GW has done nothing with.1/2
>>981483962/2The Ironkin themselves feel just lazily thrown in because people have been clamoring for a MoI faction for forever, but they're not even really scratching that itch since all ironkin get is a few alt heads and a few squads. For me personally the only way I'd buy Votann is if I could field exclusively ironkin and atm that'd require buying a bunch of ball bearings and extensive greenstuffing. And that leads into the crux of my issue with Votann: they're 3 or 4 different ideas all thrown into the pot with little consideration to making them blend. You've DAoT breakaway civ, but they're just minirines with some loose "nasapunk" vibes. You've got MoI, but they're just one head per troop and a few specialists. You've got space dwarves, but it's just a few sloppy nordic knicknacks and possibly the worst version of slayers I've ever seen. They're squats in name, but look nothing like the squats that squatfags wanted back. Maybe they'll be able to iterate on all these conflicting or poorly stitched together elements until they all fit, but at the present it just feels like they made a compromise faction that satisfies none of the groups who wanted their pet faction in.
>>98148396>>98148402Pretty well summarised. Interesting that the Necromunda ones do actually carry forward the Squat aesthetic too.
>>98142293>DuskI hole-hardedly agree, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go. Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.
Chaos Dwarves (in space) would have been cooler.
>>98142293Someone doesn't know their 40K history. Go read up on 2nd ed lore and come back when you've educated yourself. Bloody tertiaries, i swear...
>>98149644I personally don't mind them diverting from the old squat aesthetic, but the aesthetic they replaced it with is just so bland that they'd have been better off just giving them all gambesons and funny helmets.
>>98145517Yo nigga, get me out of this whack ass necrodermis prison
I quite like the nusquats. Their aesthetics are infinitely better than the og squats who looked like homosexual biker gangers.
>>98144113The former is definitely worse. It's at least possible for you to start being more critical about exactly which purchases are worth it and which ones aren't. In fact I imagine you're just being self deprecating and you probably already do think about it. This kind of thought never crosses the mind of true mindless consumers.Also, a collection of cool shit can become cooler when it's old, even if you don't build it straight away. You can be a cool uncle and gift it to your nephews and nieces if it's still not done in 15 years. Just don't buy literal crap that isn't cool now and won't be in the future. We're in this for the long haul bros.
>>98149808The guns are cool.
>>98145064You're thinking of admech.
>>98142293They needed to make "Dwarfs in space" and instead they made "dwarves in space". They have more to do with Khardron Overlords than they have to do with Warhammer Dwarfs. Plus look at their beards. What a travesty. Only Eldar have more pathetic beards.
>>98142293They take all the classic dwarf tropes and evolve them into a sci-fi setting in really cool ways.Dwarves are known for their supreme craftsmanship. In a setting with genetic modification and AI, the break down the barrier between themselves and their craft. They make themselves with as much care as they make anything else, and their creations are as intelligent as they are.Dwarf society is based on respect for ancestors and the old ways. So in the far future their society is run by a computer that is the agglomeration of all the knowledge of their ancestors.But this is 40k. Everything needs a one sentence explanation of how badass they are. The Leagues as a concept are just too subtle and thoughtful.
>>98142293Needs more opulence
>>98144435Anons wanting imperium lite know it failed the first time. Even GW isn't that dumb.
>>98142293Because le HECKIN Deep Rock Galactic was so HECKIN cool of course!!
>>98142293>terribly conceived, non-grimdarkThe grimdark of the Votann is more subtle, but it's there. The most obvious is what you said; their Ancestor Cores are so full of bloatware that they're slowing to a crawl, and the Kin are (as far as the codex mentions) entirely dependent on their Votann's genetic templates to continue "reproducing." Entire leagues can die out if they lose their Votann.They are turbo-capitalists insofar as how they treat other races, but the Kin are pretty egalitarian amongst themselves, and they have regulatory organizations to promote fair competition.If you aren't Kin, however, they only care about you if you're useful to them or if it'd be too expensive to kill you. That's another thing, to them, it was never your shit. It's a sort of greedy resource manifest destiny that they adhere to. If you're squatting on a world with shit they want, they may or may not let you evacuate if they're in the mood. Most likely, your planet's getting cracked with you on it. And they don't give a fuck; you were just an obstacle.TL;DR: They are plenty grimdark, they just aren't internally dysfunctional to the degree of the other factions.>t. Read the codex
We all know the proper 40k aesthetic is a specific subset of Imperial with gothic skulls and cathedrals>muh chaosNot 40k>muh TauNot 40k>muh eldar>necrons>nidsNot 40k>muh guard>muh marines who don't have skullsNot 40k
>>98149808That nigga in the lower left with a beard, shades and earring looks like he fucks men
>>98142293They are more than NASA. They are the working man.
>>98142293Votann has arrived.
>>98142293>DAoT faction like Interex>Men of Iron>SquatsWe need more abhumans
>>98142293How is this NASA?
>>98142293They're sexy.
>>98149808They brought back real squats for necromunda and they shit all over votrans.
>>98150684Only Humans tho
>Imperium lite No
>>98151272Squats aesthetic has very little to do with original squats besides the characters, and some of them are more like AoS Blimp dwarves, just not painted in gold. Their greaves are the most telling part, as they are almost identical
>>98142896Grineer and Corpus did the 'degenerated clone worker caste' and 'hyper capitalist robot lovers' better. DRG made 'space drunkard midgets' better.
>>98142293The identity of this faction has to be one of the most confused out there. Like jesus, just stick to one.
>>98151373Really not sure what yall on about, its generic sci-fi suits with some runes and animal heads, with a robot every now and then
>>98151373Destiny
>>98142293
>>98150688>>98151021
The best Votann.
>>98151272The necromunda squats look like trash
>tfw we will never have Rasputin Loyalist Cabal Votann with SIVA
>>98142293So you stop asking for fucking squats.
