Have anyone ever thought to create characters by making them a randomized bunch of traits from a pool of generated by LLM traits?Basically like having that way a generator of random npcs, and creating 512 npcs for a town.
Unironically too much work. I just base my npcs on popular media characters and comedy sketches and tell the players to deal with it if they don't like it
>>98161017Why though?
>>98161017Agreeing with >>98161035That seems like the sort of work random generation was made to avoid. Now you've got work you don't check in on until the session, alongside having to remember this massive cast of (presumably largely irrelevant) NPCs.
>>98161017I've considered it and tried it. Sometimes it gives usable results. Usually, though, what you get is a list of very generic NPCs that basically make the exercise a complete waste of time, as they're so sterile you'll need to give them identity, anyway. Big lists of NPC ideas are nice but the human touch is important to them. Pic unrelated.
>>98161035This. You don't need 512 NPCs, you need five. The Crowd is a character in and of itself, and outside of that you want a few characters who stand out, not a metric fuckton of basic traits.I may have more to say after dinner but the oven just went bing.
yes actually, many retards have thought this thought before
>>98161017>Okay LLM, I need a sci-fi NPC>WOW WHAT A COOL IDEA. HERE'S A SCI-FI NPC! HIS NAME IS RICK ROCKET AND HE FLIES THROUGH SPACE ON A ROCKET>That idea sucks, I need an NPC for this grounded, space opera campaign>WOW SORRY I MESSED THAT UP. HERE'S A NEW NPC. STEVE STARMAN. HE FLIES THROUGH SPACE ON AN OPERATIC ROCKETrepeat repeat repeat until you either get told you need to pay them to keep using their terrible service or get fed up and just go with the original first idea you had in your head anyways.
>>98161017If you are somehow incapable of imagining stock characters, I don’t think this hobby is for you. The most you need is a list of names.
>>98161017I have grand total of 12 friendly NPCs, 6 men and 6 women. Everyone the party talks to is one of them. So far the players don't seem to notice.
>>98161017Brother, as everyone else has already said, you don't need 512 fucking npcs, you would NEVER need that ever.If a character is not vital for the story, it's not necessary for it to have a name, backstory, interest and whatnot, 90% of the time players will only be interested in whatever serves the story best, and even if they decide to talk to a random npc and for some reason ask to know their story family and who they banged last night, you can just make that npc one of the characters that you had prepared before that were going to be crucial for the story.Think of stories like that of Dark Souls, Frieren, hell even Game of Thrones which is full of useless one-time characters only really puts depth in about a dozen of them or two.
As the kind of maniac who ended up with over 100 NPCs in the most recent campaign I ran, I'd still never rely on an LLM for that shit. You just write them up between sessions. Two or three a week and you have a massive roster by the end, with the advantage that you're forced to introduce them slowly enough that the players actually get familiar with them and learn who they are instead of being overwhelmed by too much being thrown at them at once.
>>98161401the difference here is that because NPCs in (You)r tabletop game are>played out in real time so you can react to the reaction to the character>for an audience of maybe six people so you can tailor the character to the entire audienceyou can and should be ready and willing and prepared to upgrade someone from background face to recurring NPC on a whim. I'd guess it happens in half the games I run that the players just happen to decide they really like, idk, "Jacques the Waiter" and now he's gone from two lines and a voice to a full blown NPC.
>>98161324This is painfully authentic to my experience. Rarely does it ever give you anything that will even tickle your imagination. Like the time you spend genning and reading is 100% wasted. May be one of the only cases of that I've ever seen.
>>98161017Someone posted this tool the other day: https://xhal.itch.io/charactergeneratorKinda neat.
>>98161017I'm not against AI, but that's not how it works. Meaning: random NPCs need either to be on the fly, in which case AI is not at all a solution (or to be more precise, you can prepare a list of traits and peculiarties... exactly like a prepared list to find in a handbook)Or it can be used to give you ideas when preparing adventures, in which case it is not random NPCs
>>98161324Literal skill issue. You sound like a boomers first attempt at writing an email.You set the context first, educate your model on the setting and tone, include tangible rules for the world and themes. Then you give it a pointer, the direction you want it to go. You'll recieve results which you then refine into a completey workable final product.LLMs are a tool, learn to use them properly.
>>98162275Here, I did a quick test by telling my model to generate a random NPC>Roderich Kesselflick is a talkative but sharp-witted journeyman tinker from Ochsenmarkt, usually seen in a weathered wool cloak with soot-stained fingers, a carefully kept moustache, and a bundle of small pans, kettle rings, nails, patching plates, and other cheap metal goods. As a guilded craftsman and petty trader, he travels between Ochsenmarkt, Dihnen, Sorrhof, and the villages of the Ochsental, repairing pots, selling simple ironware, and collecting more rumors than a man of his station probably should. He publicly honors Waukeen, but has a craftsman’s respect for Moradin and dwarven metalwork. Roderich talks too much, listens even better, acts humble before nobles, and is quietly proud of his guild status. He distrusts cheap Nalkaton iron, fears old dwarf tunnels and Shadowfell stories, and recently came into possession of an old rune-marked metal fragment that may be a treasure, a dangerous relic, or simply more trouble than he can afford.Its rough but a workable base.
>>98161017It doesn't really do you any good. Having pre-generated NPCs doesn't help or matter. So, what, you're gonna stop what you're doing and go read the paragraph the LLM spit out for Bob Fuckwit the ditch digger? You're better off just making him up when he's relevant to what your players are doing, because you'll get it "right." The reference is "whatever you imagine it to be" instead of trying to stick to what something else wrote that you've never read before and have to calibrate yourself to, in order to portray them.The best advice I ever read for making up NPCs was "make them an animal." So decide that Bob Fuckwit is a donkey. That's the only thing you need to know about him. Now, whenever you portray him, portray him as if you think of him as a donkey. There's nothing to be right or wrong about--it's not that "a donkey has XYZ traits." It's about "thinking about a donkey makes me think of XYZ traits." So you'll end up portraying him consistently, and knowing consistently how he's gonna respond to things. Because of the associations you already have with what you think "he's kinda a donkey" must mean. Maybe you think they're majestic and handsome. Or lazy and dirty. Whatever. The point isn't that you'll get it right. It's that you'll get it consistent. Bob Fuckwit will feel like a fully-realized NPC to your players not because you know who his wife is and what his weekly salary is and what his favorite type of fruit is. That's the kinda details an LLM could produce for you. But Bob Fuckwit the donkey will feel real and alive to your players because you'll be able to portray him consistently and understand what he thinks and how he feels.
>>98162275>>98162302>Doing all that unnecessary work for one glup shitto that the PCs may never even talk toDude, nobody's got time for all that shit
>>98162275If you can do all that, you can just write your own NPCs. Literally why even bother with the LLM?
>>98162302Who needs this shit?>Hey players it's Hercule Poirot but as a trader.It's all they need to know to start having fun.
>>98162332I'll keep this one in my mind forever. Thanks anon.
>>98162332Do you remember where this advice came from? It's neat. I'd like to be able to give an actual source though when explaining it to people.
>>98162383You're welcome.>>98162402Nope. A blog fifteen or twenty years ago. But I don't think it's very original advice. It does work well for me, though.
>>98162332>"make them an animal."Fuck, that's genuinely great advice.
>>98162332>So you'll end up portraying him consistently, and knowing consistently how he's gonna respond to things.Animal thing aside, this is exactly how I always try to plan not just NPCs, but organisations and kingdoms and stuff too.If you know roughly what the "personality archetype" of an org is, you can react without needing to stop and think too much when the players do something pants-on-head playertarded.That may be a local guild. That may be the people of this village as a unit. That may be city on city or even country level political units.You can treat a larger unit as a single "NPC" when the plot zooms out, and "know how they will react" is the most important thing for keeping the game moving smoothly.
>>98162332Genuinely excellent advice. Thank you for sharing, anon.
>>98161017>what are roll charts
