Unexpected? Sure.

The party got kidnapped and teleported into a labyrinth and we were being hunted by a beholder. We knew we couldn't beat it so we were running, and eventually hit a dead end.
We knew that it was The last stand and we had to fight.

Luckily, my cleric had just developed a fifth level spell that would power up everybody, with extra hit points, attack, and damage.

The beholder approached, so I cast my spell and everybody in the party instantly goes super saiyan. Then one of the magic users activates dimension door so that I can teleport directly behind the monster and attack him in a pincer maneuver.

As soon as this happened the beholder used a prepared attack to fire his disintegrate beam.

I failed the saving throw by one point, and in one fell swoop, my joke character who managed to reach name level, Pardue, was turned into a pile of green dust.

The party offered to use a wish spell to have him brought back from the dead, but this was the second time he had died, he had reached name level, and he was happy where he ended up.

The party ended up defeating the beholder, but it was a significant loss to resources. There is now a 25-ft statue of Pardue the All-Friend, back to back with his best friend, in front of the monastery at the party stronghold.

>>98163853
RIP, pardue

I have a question for the DMs in the thread: how often do you do your groups end up on different planes, do you use pre-baked destinations or RNG, and if you use RNG do you use specifically OSR resources for said RNG or do you just steal from wherever and make it work?

>>98163853
F.

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>>98164866
Pardue here. In my 20 years of AD&D I have seen other planes used rarely, and usually just for excursions.
I think there's a general feeling (at least for myself) that going to another dimension should be limited and special, or have the one new weird dimension be the focus of the game (ie carcosa)

But dont take my word for it, for my game has just broached crystal sphere travel via a magic voidship aka a 'jammer.

pic semi rel, we bushwhacked a Giff captain to steal his ship so we could pursue a thief off-world, to reclaim something she stole from us. (This was moral and justified as he was a smuggler who was not paying us taxes)

>Thief?
>Sorry, I don't allow homebrew at my table
>Skills aren't a thing in OSR silly anon

>>98164984
>the thief's class abilities are skills
NGMI

What's a good starting size for a 3 mile hex scale map?

>>98164866
Rarely, and I don't see the point of randomly generating the cosmology of the setting. Or do you mean like randomly rolling for which predefined plane they end up in? In that case I guess it would depend on the means of travel more than anything.

Typically I don't like the standard AD&D conception of planes, however. I'm more into the "using a giant catapult to shoot yourself to Mars" style.

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>>98164992
NTA. Isn't that just semantics? Listening at doors, opening doors, and finding (room) traps are all skills, even though they're not called that.

What I presume you have an issue with is players being able to choose and personalise skills, not the skills themselves.

>>98165042
For six-mile hexes, one Traveller subsector's worth of hexes: 8 by 10. I don't do three-mile hexes, they're too granular for my taste.

>>98165089
>Isn't that semantics?
No, it's mechanics. Class features are a different category of gameplay mechanics from skills. They are not available to all classes like skills, and players don't choose them, they choose the class and get these "skills" as part fo the class. (AD&D blurs this by letting you put points into them on each level up though)

>>98165147
>(AD&D blurs this by letting you put points into them on each level up though
No, it doesn't, mongoloid.

>>98164866
>how often do you do your groups end up on different planes
Fairly rarely, it has been a fun excursion or break from a setting at times though.
>do you use pre-baked destinations or RNG
Premade, its been how I use modules that are neat but don't really fit the overall tone of the campaign very well. I tend to alter the module or add more material of my own both out of interest and necessity. A lot of the more gonzo modules are 2/3rds baked. Some of the additional work is partially rng based like adding dungeons an keying them, then building the details of that to fit the dimension. Some of it is taking other material and adapting it.

>>98164866
>different planes
Stuff like the Gardens of Yinn and the Stygian Library are fun for a couple of sessions. A Gamma World crossover can be fun, particularly using Mutant Future. I've heard good things about the Night Wolf Inn by Anthony Uso (The Blue Bard). But I think most planar stuff is crap.

>>98164984
Kinda true honestly.

Should I use b/x or appendix A encounter rates.
The 2d6 roll vs the d20.

>>98165147
>Class features are a different category of gameplay mechanics from skills.
says who?
>They are not available to all classes like skills,
by what definition?

BX refers to them as thief skills BTW

>>98165147
>AD&D blurs this by letting you put points into them on each level up though
2etard detected

>>98166532
>Should I use b/x or appendix A encounter rates.
>The 2d6 roll vs the d20.
I presume you mean room stocking, not encounter rates. Assuming you do...

The ratios of monsters to treasure are very similar, the main difference is how many empty rooms the system generates.

Many Anons feel that the monster density in B/X is a bit too high, and that empty rooms are important for stuff like manoeuvring in combat.

It's also worth noting that the default frequency of wandering monster checks is one every two turns in B/X and one every three turns in AD&D, which compensates for the greater distances travelled because of more empty rooms.

>>98164866
It sounds like what you’re implying is some kind of random dungeon generator but for abyssal/elemental/screwy locations, which would be pretty cool.

>>98166957
>It's also worth noting that the default frequency of wandering monster checks is one every two turns in B/X and one every three turns in AD&D,

Oh yeah didn't know that, surprised to see it longer between encounters. Would assume the more empty rooms would mean players would move further per turn.

>>98167397
>Would assume the more empty rooms would mean players would move further per turn.
...why?

>>98167397
More empty rooms mean it's more time between meaningful encounters. So making wandering monster checks more rare ensures that the ratio of wandering monsters to room monster is more or less the same.

>>98165053
>Typically I don't like the standard AD&D conception of planes, however.
Fair.

>I'm more into the "using a giant catapult to shoot yourself to Mars" style.
Classic.

>>98165736
I'll check those out. Mutant Future looks interesting.

>But I think most planar stuff is crap.
Also true. In my experience with pre-written planar stuff it tends to be either magical realm or boring unless it's based on actual published literature and even then the quality is highly variable.

>>98167374
>It sounds like what you’re implying is some kind of random dungeon generator but for abyssal/elemental/screwy locations, which would be pretty cool.
Kind of but not really; it's not so much dungeon/encounter generation as it's just how the rules of nature apply to a given plane. Gravity could be higher or lower, various forms of magical energy could be empowered or nerfed, everything could be one biome, it could be infinite in size or tiny, etc. I've always had a soft spot for RNG planes where, for lack of a better term "the rules are different" but I've been wary of using them in OSR since they don't seem to fit the themes and mechanics as well and was wondering about how other people handle them if they even touch them at all.

I have a 3e splat with some breddy gud tables that I've been using in 3.X games for more than 20 years now and lately I've been tinkering with the tables to clean them up and make them a bit more OSR-friendly.

>>98167984
>Mutant Future looks interesting.
Do check out its Mutants & Mazes appendix, if you do. It's probably the best part.

Looking for blog articles that talk about the driving force/gameplay loop that is essentially "what's in the next room?".

Trying to write an article about dungeon crawling and why it is superior to story gaming/domain play/maybe even hexcrawling.

is the "per level" thing for appendix A meant to represent the per level of the party or the dungeon. I've heard people say it's the total level of the party
EG: all the players levels combined multiply by the reward.
Just seems like a ton of treasure to give out if true.

>>98168947
The driving loop is that they want treasure because the gold piece value of that treasure gives them experience points.
And rooms might contain treasure and or monsters. It's really that simple.
>>98169290
No, it means per dungeon level, that is per floor of the dungeon.

>>98169290
Dungeon level.

Why would the amount of treasure in a room depend on who finds it? That's 2e/wotc retardation.

Obligatory "can someone post the omnibus for me to print on lulu" request. Thanks.

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Anyone remember the name of the ‘fish kidnapping’ module? It was inspired by the Devils Hole Pupfish (pictured) and you stole a bunch of tiny rare fish then had to transport them back to your handler safely.
I cant remember the name and its bothering me

>>98170569
>can someone post the omnibus
It's in the usual places, Anon

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>>98170569
>>98170693
While we're at it: Which version is the most recent, 3 or 102.1?

>>98168947
Buckle up.
https://maziriansgarden.blogspot.com/2019/04/pleasures-of-osr-emergent-story-and.html
https://melancholiesandmirth.blogspot.com/2019/06/wheels-within-wheels-proof-of-jaquaying.html
https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/13085/roleplaying-games/xandering-the-dungeon
https://alldeadgenerations.blogspot.com/2025/06/dungeon-design-note-defining.html
https://alldeadgenerations.blogspot.com/p/the-classic-dungeon-crawl-theory.html

>>98170672
lol
What system?

>>98163653
>What was the most bizarre or unexpected in-game event to happen to you in recent memory?
Players actually showed up?
>t. trying to find reliable gamers online or off in a rural area
>life is suffering

>>98172160
worthless nogames post

>>98172160
I feel for you. Ignore our local schizo troll.

>>98172226
>the local nogames subversive teams up with his other outcasts

>>98172160
Not an in-game event but we still feel for you.

>>98171263
Unfortunately some sort of generic DnD thing. There wasn’t anything noteworthy, might have been fuckin Labyrinth Lord
No scifi elements or anything from what I remember

Why does no one talk about X1 - The Isle of Dread? Compared to B2 and even B1.

>>98173081
I just finished running a 9 month campaign of weekly sessions of X1 a while back.

>>98172160
The internet racists are unironically the most consistent online players in my experience.

>>98173166
Facts. my game is all nazis and we never miss a session

>>98172974
Because most people don't know how to run it. You need a system with % in lair and a system that generates hex features randomly. Traditionally you could use B/X as core rules but taking the % in lair stats from the AD&D MM, plus Wilderness Hexplore for the hex features.

An alternative is using ACKS II, that has % in lair and random hex ("terrain") features already in the core rules, but be warned that (1) it generates MANY more wilderness encounters than either the DMG or B/X when travelling, (2) that it also generates more encounters in "easy" terrain than in "hard" terrain, which is the opposite of both B/X and AD&D, and (3) that the ACKS terrain encounters are much less whacky than the WH ones
(3) is a matter of taste. When it comes to (1) and (2), some people like the ACKS way, but I personally prefer to use Arbrethil's changes for lair density AND also tweak the frequency of random encounters to bring it in line with O/A/B/XD&D.

So B/X (or OSE) + MM + Wilderness Hexplore is actually easier to do than ACKS II, IMO.

>>98173148
You're the one who shared the X1 map with 3-mile hexes? I think the Anon you replied to might be interested.

This
>>98173211
Was meant as a reply to
>>98173081
Of course.

Is there any setting for blood an sorcery with weird tones like Kadath, Zotique and lovecraft dreamlands?
I want humans with other weird peoples that are not traditional elves.
This blood and sorcery setting should be thematically close to lovecraft works.
The idea is that my call of chtulhu characters will be able to reach these lands through the dreamlands.

>>98173222
Check out Carcosa

>>98169290
Thank you kindly anon

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Is An Echo Resounding better than ACKS when it comes to domain play?
I don't like all the freakshit classes in ACKS.
But I can also just use the domain rules alone if they're good.
Recently found The Grainbound on YouTube and it's EXACTLY how I have been thinking about domain play, I've become obsessed with the causal flow of geography => sociology based on how agriculture works and how geography influences demographics. I want a system that can simulate that. B/X is low power enough that it can handle a relatively-realistic medieval world without it being broken by PCs who can kill 1000 men singlehandedly or Tippyverse spellcasting.

>>98173947
AER does domain play from an entirely different perspective than ACKS does. They're both solid, but AER is more abstracted. Here's an excellent discussion of the differences and similarities of the two, with appearances by the authors of both:
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/domain-management-in-ack-vs-an-echo-resounding/30/

>>98174054
After reading that it makes me wonder how good the original Birthright domain rules are. I know that one YouTuber has a long-running mega-campaign using Birthright, but I don't know much about it.

>>98172170
>>98172226
>>98172309
>>98172888
The last time my buddy soloed, he misunderstood capturing blink dogs and killed them.
>t. game when I can get players who aren't a little schizophrenic

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Doing my first official dungeon tomorrow with my buddies. Wish me luck running it, bit nervous lol. Hope I got enough content. Made some custom dudes n stuff, but I don't know if I did enough puzzles.
I am looking forward to them trying to figure out the flooded stuff.

>>98174194
>how good the original Birthright domain rules are
Meh.

>>98174386
Any details?

>>98174378
>but I don't know if I did enough puzzles.
One puzzle is enough honestly.

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I need opinions on a summoner class I'm working on.
Design goals:
>ONE SUMMON ONLY none of this "i summon 2d6 woodland critters"
>As few rules as possible, class should be mostly intuitive
>Want the class to feel like you are actually binding demons to your will, making pacts with them, cultivating your own roster of dickhead demons who all fucking hate you and plot your downfall, that classic evil shit/King Solomon shit
So that being said
>HD/saves as wizard, attacks/weapons/armor as thief, can use scrolls/magic items as a wizard (thinking about giving them a few thief skills maybe)
>No spellcasting (if you could cast spells you wouldn't be summoning demons now would you)
Onto the demon summoning
>Need the demon's name and a ritual circle
>Either make an agreement with the demon (which it must obey to the word and not necessarily the spirit, along with any future commands) so it works with you willingly (usually asks for a favor in return or some task on the material plane or some other heinous shot)
>or try to dominate it (giggity)
>Domination is made via an attack roll (whoever rolls higher wins) where you just command the demon without a deal (though obviously it will still try to fuck you over)
>If the demon wins the domination contest, it makes a save vs magic - on a failure it's banished, on a success it breaks free shall wreak its revenge on you for summoning it
>So don't summon anything you cant put down
>Summon lasts until you dismiss the demon, summon another demon, the demon dies, you die, or a week and a day passes
Rough draft so far

>>98174378
>>98174585
One puzzle might be too much
Unless you have a group that goes crazy for them. I think one in every three groups has one of those guys, it could be possible to gather four at one table.

>>98174585
>Any details?
All 2e stuff is unplaytested crap, not really worth discussing and it's off-topic anyway.

>>98174588
>HD/saves as wizard
Giving them 11 HD and saves like an 11th level Magic-User from the first level seems excessive and unnecessary. Why would you do that? Just give them HD and saves as a MU of the same level.

>>98174378
>but I don't know if I did enough puzzles
You don't need any.

>I am looking forward to them trying to figure out the flooded stuff.
As long as you allow for the possibility of them saying "nope, not doing this", and going somewhere else in the dungeon. Remember not to plan beforehand what encounters (room or monsters) they will face. Generally speaking, dungeons should be highly branching and players not guaranteed to face anything particular on any given session. Stuff like TotSK with its programmed "lessons" is bad design from this POV.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

>>98174719
>As long as you allow for the possibility of them saying "nope, not doing this"

Frankly I have the flooded area written off as a deadend with multiple paths to get to the flooded area. I don't even think they'll find it- but that's neither here nor there.

Sadly someone hit me up and we're gonna be rescheduling.

>>98174621
>>98174585
Im big on out there puzzles, and just getting players to stop and think. Mostly disappointed with myself for not coming up with more bullshit.

However I appreciate the responses, clears my mind a bit.

>>98174724
>Sadly someone hit me up and we're gonna be rescheduling.
You mean one player cancelled? I would recommend playing anyway with whoever shows up. The "everyone must show up" assumption sets campaigns on the wrong track, by putting too much focus on the PCs. Like Gary says at the end of the DMG, the campaign is more important than the players. The world persists and goes on even if someone cancels. The other way leads to the idea that PCs are the "protagonists" of a story rather than game pieces.

Always run campaigns as a (semi-) open table.

>>98173211
>To run X1, a module written for Cook Expert by Cook, you need AD&D
Anon...

>>98173222
IDK what Blood and Sorcery is, but anon is right that Carcosa is your best bet. Some of the other LotFP products might suit you as well, but they won't be as good in terms of tone.

>>98174825
NTA. He's right. And Cook having done something isn't the bulletproof argument that you think it is.

>>98174194
>it makes me wonder how good the original Birthright domain rules are
Birthright is off topic here, but it can be said briefly that they're not great. It's often been claimed that they're downright broken, although I wouldn't know myself since I don't really read failed 2e settings.

>>98174588
Explain why a Magic-User wouldn't be able to do this. It sounds like you're just trying to describe the spell Cacodemon.

>>98174877
I'll give you a lmao this time but don't spend it all in the same place.

>>98174588
Sounds more like something anyone should be able to do unless it's going to completely replace the wizard for your setting to be honest.

>>98174698
har har har
>>98174940
>>98174955
Probably should've prefaced that this is for a bronze age setting, wizards as we know them don't exist. Clerics serve as mage-priests like they did in ancient times, though they lose their armor/weapon proficiences. A priest wouldn't dabble with demon summoning because it's evil.
Also "this is something anyone could do" can apply to literally all the classes.
>Why do fighters get to use armor/weapons, anyone can learn that
>Why do wizards get to cast spells, anyone can learn that
etc.
You CHOSE to learn the things you learned it's why you are the class you are.

>>98174962
>Probably should've prefaced that this is for a bronze age setting, wizards as we know them don't exist.
Yeah, that was pretty relevant information. If you're using this as a replacement class I think you should be fine. The thing that catches my eye immediately is the "week and a day" limit since it seems to imply that you have to do a new summon every time you go on a dungeon expedition. I would maybe consider some more flexible way of handling demon servitude, like needing to negotiate it at the time of the summoning. Alternatively you could go the opposite direction and only permit summoning a new servant when you level up, so the player has to decide whether to play it safe or risk his character for better abilities.

>Also "this is something anyone could do" can apply to literally all the classes
I didn't say "anyone", I said Magic-User, since, again, your new class' ability seems replicated by a spell.

Any text or video guides of running through Appendix A? There are some ambiguous parts of it and I have a feeling I'm doing it wrong because I spend a lot of time making shit that doesn't work.

>>98176081
>I have a feeling I'm doing it wrong because I spend a lot of time making shit that doesn't work.
No help on the rest of it but if you look at the beginning of Appendix A it clearly states that you'll need to use your common sense when handling the results as they'll often produce absurdities otherwise.

Also, didn't you already ask about this in the last thread? What was wrong with those answers?

>>98174378
Post your dungeon, its hard to say if there's
enough xyz without having something to look at.
Hope it goes well.

>>98176081
Just start using it and post your questions here

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>>98174588
>So don't summon anything you cant put down
>HD/saves as wizard, attacks/weapons/armor as thief
Is the idea they don't dominate anything until they're high enough level to pick on smaller demons?
How are you generating the demons? This will effect a lot of things.
What do the demons get up to after they go back to where ever they came from in a week and a day? What keeps them from just coming back to fuck up the summoner?
Might be something to the summoner having X HD of demons they can summon and that being possible to break up. Leans into the summoning lesser minions and hordes of fiends vibe.

>>98176208
Firs ttime I've been in this thread, sorry I didn't read the last one

>>98176726
What the fuck, wrong link

>>98176081
You can watch John Mollison use it in this solo play series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_z29m150g5r5TvlCLzlaBTcK7YZiTWPf
But trying to learn to play through youtube videos is Zoomer brain rot. Try to ask any questions you might have in your own words here instead, we're happy to help.

>>98176605
>Nah, fair enough then, we just had a guy ask basically the same question recently so I figured it was the same guy who was unsatisfied with his answers for some reason. Maybe if you clarified what you feel is ambiguous?

>>98176766
Uh, not sure how I managed to greentext that, disregard the >

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>>98176081
Its a bit janky at times.
What have you made that didn't work or what parts were ambiguous?
There's this old flowchart. I think I have it kicking around as a pdf from when we used to be able to post such things. Might also be in the trove.

>>98176773
There's even a game version of that flowchart made by the same guy who made the poster:
>https://www.blogofholding.com/dungeonrobber/

What role can the "Five Room Dungeon" concept play in OSR dungeon design?

>>98177153
None whatsoever. A dungeon has infinite size, five rooms could be a lair, if anything.

>>98176917
Love Dungeon Robber. I've played the shit out of it.

>>98176917
I do not like the pinball motions of this at all.
Its cute but not a thing to use. Even the Donjon generator is better than this.

>>98177284
Apples to oranges. Dungeon Robber's a playable game, the donjon generator only generates maps.

>>98177323
My bad. I was thinking people used it to generate a dungeon, for which it seemed ill suited.

>>98177417
No worries. (Yes, it is ill suited for that.)

>>98177153
Five room dungeons are a reddit-tier meme, they only sound good if you're scrolling and don't stop to think about it for a minute. Great for getting updoots, bad for gaming.

>>98177268
This. They're incidental monster lairs for hexcrawls, or places to put treasure from found treasure maps. Beyond that, the idea of a 5-room actual dungeon is completely laughable.

>>98177699
Lairs shouldn't be 5 room dungeons either. The idea of the 5RD is you make exactly five rooms, each with a separate challenge. A monster fight, a puzzle, a trap or trick, a boss fight, and a treasure room. It's artificial as hell, and basically a miniature funhouse dungeon, like a carnival ride.

>>98174935
>>98174386
Does 1e have domain rules?

>>98177804
Yes, it has rules for establishing a domain (clearing a hex), building and hiring costs, mass combat, siege weapons and spells used in mass combat, and domain revenue. Also many spells only make sense in the context of mass combat and domain play, but this is never said explicitly.

The unwritten assumption, however, was that players would be wargamers who knew how to use e.g. Tony Baths's rules for wargaming campaigns, so the DMG provided the absolute minimum necessary to make it work. Most likely a case of the Curse of Knowledge on Gary's part.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge

This, and the fact that the rules are scattered around three different rulebooks and often mentioned only in passing, means that many people have been playing AD&D for decades and never used these rules, or not fully understood how they work, and in the worst case even the fact that they are there in the first place.

>>98177284
its a game, not a generator, you fucking retard

I'm doing a hexcrawl and using POIS and Formations as landmarks for players. Should I have them automaticlaly discover the POIs when they enter the tile?

>>98177268
>>98177631
>>98177699
>>98177758
>The idea of the 5RD is you make exactly five rooms
Explicitly is not, it's 5 conceptual areas. I'm wondering if anyone has used this in the style of say, 6 actual dungeon rooms per "room" in the 5RD framework, and erased the linearity between them.

>>98177970
>Explicitly is not
I think that depends on whose definition you're reading. That is a less-retarded version of the idea, yes, but the more retarded version is still out there.
It's still retarded either way

>>98177758
Huh, I didn't know it was that codified. Even allowing for funhouse-style preferences, Jesus that's awful.

>>98177967
I do X:6, typically 1 or 2, with modifiers based on
>Terrain density, plains is +1, forest is -1, etc.
>Feature specifics like height or sounds, hidden etc.
>Character specifics like telescopes, tracking dogs, guides, injuries, overt stomping around etc. in relation to the feature
With the option to search the whole hex for a day just revealing whatever is there.
5 mile hexes and assuming earth shaped horizons.

>>98177153
Very little. Its a linear framing designed to make story arcs for a style of play that doesn't really suit OSR dungeon design.
There can be things like
>Entrances & Guardians
>RP challenges & Puzzles
>Tricks & Setbacks
>Climatic Big Battle & Conflict
>Reward, Revelations & Plot Twist
but the 5 room style sets them up as a specific order of operations to create narrative arc, rather than having things that are puzzles, large monsters, etc. in a dungeon that players explore as they see fit. Weirdest part is players may very well describe their gameplay as if it were a 5 room dungeon from their perspective when telling stories about the game they played but if the DM makes a 5 Room Dungeon it falls flat for osr gameplay that creates this story. Humans are fun like that.

>>98178110
A huge part of the fun is that stuff emerges organically, the GM is usually as surprised as the players and no one feels like they are being directed along.

>>98177153
It's actually kind of surprising how well this lines up with the d6 for dungeon stocking.
1-2: monster for guardian, monster for climax
3: trap for setback
4: special for rp challenge & puzzle
5-6: empty rooms for rewards

>>98178223
>emergent gameplay
This.
Which is part of the dungeon stocking yes >>98178228 but the randomization of room keys, reaction rolls, wandering monsters and non-linear dungeon design are an essential part of that emergence. It falls apart when it turns into a linear process.

>>98178238
As is so often the case, this bit of modern RPG design theory is like somebody taught them old-school ideas wrong on purpose, as a joke.

>>98178269
I think a lot of the time its that people want a different sort of game. 5 room dungeon isn't a thing I want, but if I were inclined to do some sort of EPIC FANTASY ADVENTURE its the outline I'd use.

>>98178364
I think it's still kinda shitty even for that

>>98177887
>>98177804
I genuinely cannot see how you could satisfyingly conclude an old-school D&D campaign that makes it to high level without at least some interaction with domain mechanics. For me, a campaign ends either with a TPK or with the group building a stronghold together (or multiple entities in close proximity) and living happily ever after.

>>98176405
>How are you generating the demons?
Roll for a random monster, then demonize it. I've got a WFRPG book to inspire ideas for demonic traits. Depending on what I roll depends on how I describe it. Less than 3HD? Imp or lemure. 4-9HD are regular demons. 10HD+ are the big boys you don't want to mess with unless you've got a bunch of your buddies on stand by.
As long as player knows the demon's name and has a proper circle to summon them, they can. Doesn't mean they SHOULD, but they can.
The idea is that I'll randomly generate some demons, pick out the ones that tickle my noggin, then seed them in dungeons. Either by putting a scroll containing their name and summoning ritual, or just having them as a summoned crony for someone else.
>What do the demons get up to after they go back to where ever they came from in a week and a day? What keeps them from just coming back to fuck up the summoner?
Demons can't enter the world unless they're invited. Of course if you treat a demon very poorly, they might make a deal with the next schmuck to summon them to go kick your ass.

>>98178599
This is the dogshit single-party, one-PC-per-player 2e/WotC mindset.

In TRVE Gygaxian / Arnesonian D&D, campaigns never end. They're run on open tables, each player runs multiple PCs (but never two at the same time), each session there's a different party doing a different thing. All with STRICT TIME RECORDS.

There's literally no such thing as a TPK in TRVE D&D because even if a single party is wiped out, the world and all other PCs keep existing. And there's never a conclusion to a campaign, because the DM does not run metaplots involving every PC in the setting.

As for domain play being necessary, you can just retire one of your PCs without necessarily assigning him a domain to run. Maybe he does something else, like opening a workshop and focusing on research instead.

>>98178602
>I've got a WFRPG book to inspire ideas for demonic traits.
Cool, but DMG Appendix D and ACKS Cacodemons are better.

>>98178653
Even with troupe/rotating party open table games, at some point some characters are going to hit name level. Then they're going to have to decide what they do.
>Maybe he does something else, like opening a workshop and focusing on research instead.
He can, but that's not likely to work for a high level fighter, and most local lords are not going to let a 9th level fighter just sit around, they're going to offer him land so he doesn't get ideas and start a rebellion.
Also what is he going to do with all of his followers and henchmen?

>>98178695
>local lords
You're in the wilderness, the "local lords" are other players, retired PCs or not.

>>98178695
>Even with troupe/rotating party open table games, at some point some characters are going to hit name level. Then they're going to have to decide what they do.
Sure. I was commenting on the second part of your post, not on the first one (my bad, I should have quoted the part I was referring to).

>what is he going to do with all of his followers and henchmen?
If he doesn't start a domain, he gets no followers. Henchmen he can just dismiss, unless they want to become his manservants in his mansion in the countryside.

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>>98176773
>>98176766
Thanks. Here are some really common scenarios:
>roll a room to start
>roll its doors
>roll which wall door 1 is on, great
>head to Table II, Doors, space beyond door
>roll passage 45 degrees ahead/behind
>what is "ahead/behind" in a room wall scenario?
Okay, I could just jut off 45 degrees left or right randomly. Sure. This comes up often enough though it makes me think I'm misunderstanding something. Also, does that come with an implied 30' of directionality, or do I immediately go to Table I Periodic check to see what happens? In fact, should I be going straight to periodic check after rolling room doors and not doing space beyond door?

Okay, so speaking of Periodic check. Side passages are a source of all sorts of confusion. First question: if I've rolled "side passage - check again in 30'" does that mean I draw 30 feet in the direction I'm going, and then roll on side passage and whatever result I get slap it somewhere in the middle of that passage? What the fuck is a left curve 45 degrees ahead and how's that different from left 45 degrees ahead?

I'm sorry I know this is all retarded and I'm just getting hung up on details. I also get pissed at how often I roll 10x10 rooms, but that's not really something I don't understand, they're just something that happens I guess.

>>98178821
>what is "ahead/behind" in a room wall scenario?
Right/left. That was written under the assumption that it's a side door in a corridor.

>This comes up often enough though it makes me think I'm misunderstanding something.
Yes, you're misunderstanding that the DMG was written by a silent generation guy for relatively smart boomers and genxers that didn't need to be spoon fed.

>does that come with an implied 30' of directionality
You mean length? Yes, that's the default length of all corridor sections.

>should I be going straight to periodic check
No. 30' of corridor and then periodic check.

>after rolling room doors
Yes if you're randomly generating as a DM. No if playing solo, you'd have to open the door first.

>if I've rolled "side passage - check again in 30'" does that mean I draw 30 feet in the direction I'm going, and then roll on side passage and whatever result I get slap it somewhere in the middle of that passage?
lol no. You write a side passage at the point you're checking, and then you check again after 30'.

>What the fuck is a left curve 45 degrees ahead
Exactly what it says. What's unclear about it?

>how's that different from left 45 degrees ahead
There's no curve in this one. The passage goes immediately in that direction. Like an asymmetric Y.

>I'm sorry I know this is all retarded and I'm just getting hung up on details.
That's okay, you've been brought up on books written by retards for retards and you've never had to deal with one which requires you to think for yourself. You'll get used to it soon enough.

>I also get pissed at how often I roll 10x10 rooms, but that's not really something I don't understand, they're just something that happens I guess.
Yeah, same. It's okay at the end of a corridor, it will just be a crossroad of sorts, but I refuse to have that many 10'×10' rooms adjacent to regular rooms, it sucks ass. Feel free to reroll those results if you don't like them.

Discretion must prevail at all times.

>>98178821
>>98178985
Inb4
>What's the difference between a Room and a Chamber?
Rooms have doors by default, Chambers have open corridors by default.

>>98178985
Appreciate you. This was the right level of treating me like an idiot but being helpful. Keep on keepin' on, anon. Gonna go roll up some dungeon floors.

>>98178765
Guess that could work fine.
And I understand what you were referring to now, my bad.
I guess the difference is "campaign" versus "character's career" in that case.
But I don't see an end to a character's time in the campaign where he doesn't build a stronghold. At least as a fighter. Maybe he becomes a mentor, or just retires to do blacksmithing. But for some reason those endings always seem like a waste of potential.

>>98179004
Have fun and show us what you get!

>>98179022
Oh I agree that domain play is a strong option and even maybe the default. Just saying I wouldn't force a player to do that if he'd rather just retire or semi-retire the character.

>>98177970
>I'm wondering if anyone has used this in the style of say, 6 actual dungeon rooms per "room" in the 5RD framework, and erased the linearity between them.
Well, no. Nobody has done this. is that a sufficiently clear answer?

>>98177967
Depends on what the point of interest is. If it's a large menhir in the middle of rolling grassland, yeah, it should be automatic. If it's an underground elf fortress in a thick forest, no.

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>>98178602
>Realm of Chaos inspired demon traits
Into it.
A Red & Pleasant Land has a fun demon generation table as well. I suspect the HD are all fucked up because Zak's homebrew was 3rd ed or something similar but the traits made for a few fun demons in my campaigns. I made them in 3 rough sizes for the 4 not!chaosgods and kept them on hand. Didn't come up as often as I wanted but some of that is on me for cackling too much when encountering trapped demons and my players not being retarded enough to engage in faustian bargains.
The Lesser Key to the Celestial Legion is osr adjacent but an interesting set of tables as well.
If you haven't seen it, Carcosa has a bunch of binding, summoning and otherwise fucking with powerful alien entities and their minions. The ritual requirements might be off base for your Mesopotamian milieu but 10 Blue virgins would be easy to port over to 10 Hitite daughters.